Online Status
Hola a todos:
En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto que pudieran proporcionarme.
Alessandro
********************************************************************************
Hello everyone:
Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is registered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I would appreciate very much any information related.
Sincerely
Alessandro
Bautizo secreto
Where could one find those secret baptisms?
En donde se pueden encontrar los bautizos secretos?
Rosie Cordova
Bautismos SECRETOS?
Alessandro,
no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los ninos que tien padres que no son casados.....
the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not married.....hence the child is a bastard...
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: viteliky@hotmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
Hola a todos:
En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto que pudieran proporcionarme.
Alessandro
********************************************************************************
Hello everyone:
Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is registered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by ch
ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I would appreciate very much any information related.
Sincerely
Alessandro
Bautismos SECRETOS?
Esthela:
Thank you for your comment. You know what? About what you say, it is very strange saying the parents were not married because this child I am talking about is the 8th son (and the last-one) for the same parents. No doubt he is their son, I consider after 30 years living together and having 8 sons this couple of parents SHOULD be married. I really think they were married, and I think there must be another cause for this type of registration too.
But anyway, I hope to find out soon, I thank your comment and I take it just like that till new information comes out. This is my very 1st. hint.
LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
Ser de Luz!!!
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:48:11 -0400
> From: sjlstar@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
> Alessandro,
> no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los ninos que tien padres que no son casados.....
>
> the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not married.....hence the child is a bastard...
>
> Stella
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: viteliky@hotmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
>
> Hola a todos:
>
> En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto que pudieran proporcionarme.
>
> Alessandro
>
> ********************************************************************************
>
> Hello everyone:
>
> Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is registered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by ch
> ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I would appreciate very much any information related.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Alessandro
Bautismos SECRETOS?
Alessandro,
I searched high and low for my grandmothers birth cert. could not find it, then the lady at the LDS center told me to look at the bautismos secretos......the illegite kids.........and yes I found her there.......my gr grandmother and this man had sex without being married....(conceiving my grandmother).....he begged her to marry him but no.........my gr grandmother then married someone else and five years later her first daughter was born, five more children none of them have their birth certs in the bautismos secretos.....this was 1906 when my grandmother was born...so yes it was very embarressing not to be married then
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:06 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
sthela:
Thank you for your comment. You know what? About what you say, it is very
trange saying the parents were not married because this child I am talking
bout is the 8th son (and the last-one) for the same parents. No doubt he is
heir son, I consider after 30 years living together and having 8 sons this
ouple of parents SHOULD be married. I really think they were married, and I
hink there must be another cause for this type of registration too.
But anyway, I hope to find out soon, I thank your comment and I take it just
ike that till new information comes out. This is my very 1st. hint.
LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
Ser de Luz!!!
> To: rese
arch@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:48:11 -0400
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
Alessandro,
no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los ninos que
ien padres que no son casados.....
the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not married.....hence the
hild is a bastard...
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: viteliky@hotmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
Hola a todos:
En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra
l registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia
atolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto" me
orprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este
ema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
ecreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de
nsesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al
especto que pudieran proporcionarme.
Alessandro
********************************************************************************
>
Hello everyone:
Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is
egistered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church
ecords for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secr
et" record shoked me, I
ould like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or
xplain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by ch
ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I
ould appreciate very much any information related.
Sincerely
Alessandro
Bautismos SECRETOS?
Thursday, July 9, 2009
I have seen and used a similar film from the Atotonilco el Alto area. The children listed, or in particular the one that I was researching, had both parents and both sets of grandparents on the Secret Baptismal microfilm. The child's father was married and the father apparently came for the child after his birth. I do not know what happened to the mother. I do have extensive records of her parents, siblings, and ancestors. I have similar records for the father.
The child grew up in the household of his father with half siblings and the father's wife. The half siblings, who all were apparently older, were reportedly very mean to the child. Nothing bad was said about the husband's wife. I did not know the child as he grew up and became a man but I did know his son Lorenzo.
Uncle Lorenzo was ashamed of his father's humble beginnings and did not tell me about his dad until he himself was a very old man. However, others in the family did tell me the family secret and I was able to get at the truth.
The child was also listed in the regular baptismal records with only his mother and maternal grandparents and padrinos.
It is said that about 1/3 of the children born in Mexico did not have legally wed parents. It is not for me/us to judge. I would have liked to have known all the facts about Uncle Lorenzo's father when I first started research in 1978 because it would have made my search a bit easier. However we learn things when we do and that is why we keep digging for the true facts.
Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.
Researching in Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco el Alto, and La Barca, Jalisco
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, viteliky@hotmail.com wrote:
> From: viteliky@hotmail.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:43 PM
> Hola a todos:
>
> En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en
> el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama
> "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de
> Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro
> "secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a
> cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede
> ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
> secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño
> bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
> estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto
> que pudieran proporcionarme.
>
> Alessandro
>
> ********************************************************************************
>
> Hello everyone:
>
> Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the
> film he is registered/christened is called "Secret
> Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal.
> Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like
> to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can
> extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret?
> What does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son
> of a violation, incest or something similar? I would
> appreciate very much any information related.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Alessandro
Bautismos SECRETOS?
Patricia,
no it is not for us to judge, and it just sickens me to know that from the beginning it was like my grandmother had to be hidden. she also was treated horribly by her mothers husband and their children........in later years when they were adults of coarse they loved her and she forgot it all.......she was very religious....the stuff they did to her....was horrible and always brought up that she was illegit.........they spit in her food, her step dad would walk by while she was eating and pass gas right there next to her...........she was made to do all the work...........sheesh why didnt gr grandmother give her away??? so sad......
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: patricia burton
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
hursday, July 9, 2009
I have seen and used a similar film from the Atotonilco el Alto area. The
hildren listed, or in particular the one that I was researching, had both
arents and both sets of grandparents on the Secret Baptismal microfilm. The
hild's father was married and the father apparently came for the child after
is birth. I do not know what happened to the mother. I do have extensive
ecords of her parents, siblings, and ancestors. I have similar records for the
ather.
The child grew up in the household of his father with half siblings and the
ather's wife. The half siblings, who all were apparently older, were
eportedly very m
ean to the child. Nothing bad was said about the husband's
ife. I did not know the child as he grew up and became a man but I did know
is son Lorenzo.
Uncle Lorenzo was ashamed of his father's humble beginnings and did not tell me
bout his dad until he himself was a very old man. However, others in the
amily did tell me the family secret and I was able to get at the truth.
The child was also listed in the regular baptismal records with only his mother
nd maternal grandparents and padrinos.
It is said that about 1/3 of the children born in Mexico did not have legally
ed parents. It is not for me/us to judge. I would have liked to have known
ll the facts about Uncle Lorenzo's father when I first started research in 1978
ecause it would have made my search a bit easier. However we learn things when
e do and that is why we keep digging for the true facts.
Sincerely,
atricia Burton
an Diego, Ca.
esearching in Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco el Alto, and La Barca, Jalisco
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, viteliky@hotmail.com wrote:
> From: viteliky@hotmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:43 PM
Hola a todos:
En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en
el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama
"BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de
Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con es
te tipo de registro
"secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a
cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede
ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño
bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto
que pudieran proporcionarme.
Alessandro
********************************************************************************
Hello everyone:
Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the
film he is registered/christened is called "Secret
Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal.
Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like
to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can
extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret?
What does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son
of a violation, incest or something similar? I would
appreciate very much any information related.
Sincerely
Alessandro
Bautismos SECRETOS?
yes both my grandmothers parents were listed on the secret baptism, and so were the grandparents, but the parents were not married.
-----Original Message-----
From: patricia burton
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
hursday, July 9, 2009
I have seen and used a similar film from the Atotonilco el Alto area. The
hildren listed, or in particular the one that I was researching, had both
arents and both sets of grandparents on the Secret Baptismal microfilm. The
hild's father was married and the father apparently came for the child after
is birth. I do not know what happened to the mother. I do have extensive
ecords of her parents, siblings, and ancestors. I have similar records for the
ather.
The child grew up in the household of his father with half siblings and the
ather's wife. The half siblings, who all were apparently older, were
eportedly very mean to the child. Nothing bad was said about the husband's
ife. I did not know the child as he grew up and became a man but I did know
is son Lorenzo.
Uncle Lorenzo was ashamed of his father's humble beginnings and did not tell me
bout his dad until he himself was a very old man. However, others in the
amily did tell me the family secret and I was able to get at the truth.
The child was also listed in the regular baptismal records with only his mother
nd maternal grandparents
and padrinos.
It is said that about 1/3 of the children born in Mexico did not have legally
ed parents. It is not for me/us to judge. I would have liked to have known
ll the facts about Uncle Lorenzo's father when I first started research in 1978
ecause it would have made my search a bit easier. However we learn things when
e do and that is why we keep digging for the true facts.
Sincerely,
atricia Burton
an Diego, Ca.
esearching in Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco el Alto, and La Barca, Jalisco
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, viteliky@hotmail.com wrote:
> From: viteliky@hotmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:43 PM
Hola a todos:
En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en
el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama
"BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de
Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro
"secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a
cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede
ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño
bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto
que pudieran proporcionarme.
Alessandro
********************************************************************************
Hello everyone:
R
esearching information about an ancestor, I found that the
film he is registered/christened is called "Secret
Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal.
Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like
to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can
extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret?
What does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son
of a violation, incest or something similar? I would
appreciate very much any information related.
Sincerely
Alessandro
Bautismos SECRETOS?
In Jerez they were a little kinder and called it hijos naturales but I found there were many people who were there as umarried but I had a marriage record for them. As someone else said they had many children sometimes and one wonders who decided they belonged in this book. In Jerez the film is 0439889 and covers 1867 to 1875. Unfortunately I did not get to complete it.
Linda in Everett
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO wrote:
From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 8:06 PM
Esthela:
Thank you for your comment. You know what? About what you say, it is very strange saying the parents were not married because this child I am talking about is the 8th son (and the last-one) for the same parents. No doubt he is their son, I consider after 30 years living together and having 8 sons this couple of parents SHOULD be married. I really think they were married, and I think there must be another cause for this type of registration too.
But anyway, I hope to find out soon, I thank your comment and I take it just like that till new information comes out. This is my very 1st. hint.
LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
Ser de Luz!!!
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:48:11 -0400
> From: sjlstar@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
> Alessandro,
> no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los ninos que tien padres que no son casados.....
>
> the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not married.....hence the child is a bastard...
>
> Stella
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: viteliky@hotmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
>
> Hola a todos:
>
> En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto que pudieran proporcionarme.
>
> Alessandro
>
> ********************************************************************************
>
> Hello everyone:
>
> Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is registered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by ch
> ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I would appreciate very much any information related.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Alessandro
Bautismos SECRETOS?
I guess no one should be surprised to what lengths some will go to show their lack of humanity, even within their own families.
I used to think it rare when I heard of one sibling stealing a family inheritance from other brothers and sisters but not anymore. It happened in my fathers family and I heard of an old friend and it happened in his, and then an ex-girlfriend robbed her only brother (only surviving family member) of his share of inheritance. It makes you wonder. Rolando
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 11:03 PM
Patricia,
no it is not for us to judge, and it just sickens me to know that from the beginning it was like my grandmother had to be hidden. she also was treated horribly by her mothers husband and their children........in later years when they were adults of coarse they loved her and she forgot it all.......she was very religious....the stuff they did to her....was horrible and always brought up that she was illegit.........they spit in her food, her step dad would walk by while she was eating and pass gas right there next to her...........she was made to do all the work...........sheesh why didnt gr grandmother give her away??? so sad......
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: patricia burton
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
hursday, July 9, 2009
I have seen and used a similar film from the Atotonilco el Alto area. The
hildren listed, or in particular the one that I was researching, had both
arents and both sets of grandparents on the Secret Baptismal microfilm. The
hild's father was married and the father apparently came for the child after
is birth. I do not know what happened to the mother. I do have extensive
ecords of her parents, siblings, and ancestors. I have similar records for the
ather.
The child grew up in the household of his father with half siblings and the
ather's wife. The half siblings, who all were apparently older, were
eportedly very m
ean to the child. Nothing bad was said about the husband's
ife. I did not know the child as he grew up and became a man but I did know
is son Lorenzo.
Uncle Lorenzo was ashamed of his father's humble beginnings and did not tell me
bout his dad until he himself was a very old man. However, others in the
amily did tell me the family secret and I was able to get at the truth.
The child was also listed in the regular baptismal records with only his mother
nd maternal grandparents and padrinos.
It is said that about 1/3 of the children born in Mexico did not have legally
ed parents. It is not for me/us to judge. I would have liked to have known
ll the facts about Uncle Lorenzo's father when I first started research in 1978
ecause it would have made my search a bit easier. However we learn things when
e do and that is why we keep digging for the true facts.
Sincerely,
atricia Burton
an Diego, Ca.
esearching in Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco el Alto, and La Barca, Jalisco
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, viteliky@hotmail.com wrote:
> From: viteliky@hotmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:43 PM
Hola a todos:
En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en
el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama
"BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de
Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con es
te tipo de registro
"secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a
cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede
ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño
bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto
que pudieran proporcionarme.
Alessandro
********************************************************************************
Hello everyone:
Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the
film he is registered/christened is called "Secret
Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal.
Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like
to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can
extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret?
What does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son
of a violation, incest or something similar? I would
appreciate very much any information related.
Sincerely
Alessandro
Bautismos SECRETOS?
Rolando,
are we related??..............lol
My gr gr grandmother/father left my grandmother an inheritance.......and yes those half siblings stole it! they and their parents were left nothing for the way they treated my grandmother. My grandmothers mother somehow did some kind of shannanigans and took it from my grandmother and gave it to her other kids, cause it wasn't fair that their grandparents left them nothing......if you knew my granmother you would of loved her, everyone did....no bitterness for the way her life turned out.
Stella
we dig all this stuff up huh?
-----Original Message-----
From: Rolando Romo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 12:05 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
I guess no one should be surprised to what lengths some will go to show their
ack of humanity, even within their own families.
used to think it rare when I heard of one sibling stealing a family
nheritance from other brothers and sisters but not anymore. It happened in my
athers family and I heard of an old friend and it happened in his, and then an
x-girlfriend robbed her only brother (only surviving family member) of his
hare of inheritance. It makes you wonder. Rolando
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
rom: sjlstar@aol.com
ubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
o: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ate: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 11:03 PM
atricia,
o it is not for us to judge, and it just
sickens me to know that from the
eginning it was like my grandmother had to be hidden. she also was treated
orribly by her mothers husband and their children........in later years when
hey were adults of coarse they loved her and she forgot it all.......she was
ery religious....the stuff they did to her....was horrible and always brought
p that she was illegit.........they spit in her food, her step dad would walk
y while she was eating and pass gas right there next to her...........she was
ade to do all the work...........sheesh why didnt gr grandmother give her
way??? so sad......
tella
----Original Message-----
rom: patricia burton
o: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:48 pm
ubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
ursday, July 9, 2009
have seen and used a similar film from the Atotonilco el Alto area. The
ildren listed, or in particular the one that I was researching, had both
rents and both sets of grandparents on the Secret Baptismal microfilm. The
ild's father was married and the father apparently came for the child after
s birth. I do not know what happened to the mother. I do have extensive
cords of her parents, siblings, and ancestors. I have similar records for the
ther.
he child grew up in the household of his father with half siblings and the
ther's wife. The half siblings, who all were apparently older, were
portedly very m
an to the child. Nothing bad was said about
the husband's
fe. I did not know the child as he grew up and became a man but I did know
s son Lorenzo.
ncle Lorenzo was ashamed of his father's humble beginnings and did not tell me
out his dad until he himself was a very old man. However, others in the
mily did tell me the family secret and I was able to get at the truth.
he child was also listed in the regular baptismal records with only his mother
d maternal grandparents and padrinos.
t is said that about 1/3 of the children born in Mexico did not have legally
d parents. It is not for me/us to judge. I would have liked to have known
l the facts about Uncle Lorenzo's father when I first started research in 1978
cause it would have made my search a bit easier. However we learn things when
do and that is why we keep digging for the true facts.
incerely,
tricia Burton
n Diego, Ca.
searching in Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco el Alto, and La Barca, Jalisco
-- On Thu, 7/9/09, viteliky@hotmail.com wrote:
From: viteliky@hotmail.com
ubject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
o: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ate: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:43 PM
ola a todos:
En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en
l que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama
BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de
apopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con es
e tipo de registro
secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle20a
ualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede
mpliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
ecreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño
autizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
stilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto
ue pudieran proporcionarme.
Alessandro
********************************************************************************
Hello everyone:
Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the
ilm he is registered/christened is called "Secret
hristenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal.
inding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like
o ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can
xtend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret?
hat does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son
f a violation, incest or something similar? I would
ppreciate very much any information related.
Sincerely
Alessandro
Bautismos SECRETOS?
Yes you don't have to dig too deep or too far to find this kind of thing. It is one of those major sins - greed.
My father was falsely accused of hoarding his father's inheritance for himself and a sister convinced the majority of her siblings to support her and she convinced my grandmother, on her deathbed, to make her the executor of my grandmother's will. Needless to say, that the sister not only took everything for herself and didn't even share with her siblings that had supported her but she refused to make repairs on properties and pay taxes. She lost it all and none of the other brothers and sisters ever saw a dime. My father had been giving them all a small share of the benefits and putting most of the money back to repairs and taxes. Their greed didn't pay off in the long run. The fact is that Dad didn't care so much about the money but how his siblings, with a few exceptions, turned on him. It has hurt him deeply. All of his brothers and sisters are gone now, except for one - guess which one? She cries whenever she sees my Dad - I guess there is some
guilt there, good!
I suspect that many families have come apart due to such conflicts. It will be interesting to see what happens to the family of Michael Jackson.
--- On Fri, 7/10/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 4:10 PM
Rolando,
are we related??..............lol
My gr gr grandmother/father left my grandmother an inheritance.......and yes those half siblings stole it! they and their parents were left nothing for the way they treated my grandmother. My grandmothers mother somehow did some kind of shannanigans and took it from my grandmother and gave it to her other kids, cause it wasn't fair that their grandparents left them nothing......if you knew my granmother you would of loved her, everyone did....no bitterness for the way her life turned out.
Stella
we dig all this stuff up huh?
-----Original Message-----
From: Rolando Romo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 12:05 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
I guess no one should be surprised to what lengths some will go to show their
ack of humanity, even within their own families.
used to think it rare when I heard of one sibling stealing a family
nheritance from other brothers and sisters but not anymore. It happened in my
athers family and I heard of an old friend and it happened in his, and then an
x-girlfriend robbed her only brother (only surviving family member) of his
hare of inheritance. It makes you wonder. Rolando
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
rom: sjlstar@aol.com
ubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
o: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ate: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 11:03 PM
atricia,
o it is not for us to judge, and it just
sickens me to know that from the
eginning it was like my grandmother had to be hidden. she also was treated
orribly by her mothers husband and their children........in later years when
hey were adults of coarse they loved her and she forgot it all.......she was
ery religious....the stuff they did to her....was horrible and always brought
p that she was illegit.........they spit in her food, her step dad would walk
y while she was eating and pass gas right there next to her...........she was
ade to do all the work...........sheesh why didnt gr grandmother give her
way??? so sad......
tella
----Original Message-----
rom: patricia burton
o: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:48 pm
ubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
ursday, July 9, 2009
have seen and used a similar film from the Atotonilco el Alto area. The
ildren listed, or in particular the one that I was researching, had both
rents and both sets of grandparents on the Secret Baptismal microfilm. The
ild's father was married and the father apparently came for the child after
s birth. I do not know what happened to the mother. I do have extensive
cords of her parents, siblings, and ancestors. I have similar records for the
ther.
he child grew up in the household of his father with half siblings and the
ther's wife. The half siblings, who all were apparently older, were
portedly very m
an to the child. Nothing bad was said about
the husband's
fe. I did not know the child as he grew up and became a man but I did know
s son Lorenzo.
ncle Lorenzo was ashamed of his father's humble beginnings and did not tell me
out his dad until he himself was a very old man. However, others in the
mily did tell me the family secret and I was able to get at the truth.
he child was also listed in the regular baptismal records with only his mother
d maternal grandparents and padrinos.
t is said that about 1/3 of the children born in Mexico did not have legally
d parents. It is not for me/us to judge. I would have liked to have known
l the facts about Uncle Lorenzo's father when I first started research in 1978
cause it would have made my search a bit easier. However we learn things when
do and that is why we keep digging for the true facts.
incerely,
tricia Burton
n Diego, Ca.
searching in Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco el Alto, and La Barca, Jalisco
-- On Thu, 7/9/09, viteliky@hotmail.com wrote:
From: viteliky@hotmail.com
ubject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
o: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ate: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:43 PM
ola a todos:
En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en
l que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama
BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de
apopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con es
e tipo de registro
secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle20a
ualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede
mpliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
ecreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño
autizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
stilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto
ue pudieran proporcionarme.
Alessandro
********************************************************************************
Hello everyone:
Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the
ilm he is registered/christened is called "Secret
hristenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal.
inding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like
o ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can
xtend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret?
hat does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son
f a violation, incest or something similar? I would
ppreciate very much any information related.
Sincerely
Alessandro
Bautismos SECRETOS?
I suspect that many families have come apart due to such conflicts. It will be
nteresting to see what happens to the family of Michael Jackson.
Soooo true.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rolando Romo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 2:22 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
Yes you don't have to dig too deep or too far to find this kind of thing. It is
ne of those major sins - greed.
y father was falsely accused of hoarding his father's inheritance for himself
nd a sister convinced the majority of her siblings to support her and she
onvinced my grandmother, on her deathbed, to make her the executor of my
randmother's will. Needless to say, that the sister not only took everything
or herself and didn't even share with her siblings that had supported her but
he refused to make repairs on properties and pay taxes. She lost it all and
one of the other brothers and sisters ever saw a dime. My father had been
iving them all a small share of the benefits and putting most of the money back
o repairs and taxes. Their greed didn't pay off in the long run. The fact is
hat Dad didn't care so much about the money but how his siblings, with a few
xceptions, turned on him. It has hurt him deeply. All of his brothers and
isters are gone now, except for one - guess which one? She cries whenever she
ees my Dad - I guess there is some
guilt there, good!
I suspect that ma
ny families have come apart due to such conflicts. It will be
nteresting to see what happens to the family of Michael Jackson.
--- On Fri, 7/10/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
rom: sjlstar@aol.com
ubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
o: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ate: Friday, July 10, 2009, 4:10 PM
olando,
re we related??..............lol
y gr gr grandmother/father left my grandmother an inheritance.......and yes
hose half siblings stole it! they and their parents were left nothing for the
ay they treated my grandmother. My grandmothers mother somehow did some kind
f shannanigans and took it from my grandmother and gave it to her other kids,
ause it wasn't fair that their grandparents left them nothing......if you knew
y granmother you would of loved her, everyone did....no bitterness for the way
er life turned out.
tella
e dig all this stuff up huh?
----Original Message-----
rom: Rolando Romo
o: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 12:05 pm
ubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
I guess no one should be surprised to what lengths some will go to show their
ck of humanity, even within their own families.
used to think it rare when I heard of one sibling stealing a family
heritance from other brothers and sisters but not anymore. It happened in my
thers family and I heard of an old friend and it happened in his, and then an
-girlfriend robbed her only brother (only surviving family member
) of his
are of inheritance. It makes you wonder. Rolando
-- On Thu, 7/9/09, sjlstar@aol.com wrote:
rom: sjlstar@aol.com
bject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
: research@nuestrosranchos.org
te: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 11:03 PM
atricia,
it is not for us to judge, and it just
ickens me to know that from the
ginning it was like my grandmother had to be hidden. she also was treated
rribly by her mothers husband and their children........in later years when
ey were adults of coarse they loved her and she forgot it all.......she was
ry religious....the stuff they did to her....was horrible and always brought
that she was illegit.........they spit in her food, her step dad would walk
while she was eating and pass gas right there next to her...........she was
de to do all the work...........sheesh why didnt gr grandmother give her
ay??? so sad......
ella
----Original Message-----
om: patricia burton
: research@nuestrosranchos.org
nt: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:48 pm
bject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
rsday, July 9, 2009
ave seen and used a similar film from the Atotonilco el Alto area. The
ldren listed, or in particular the one that I was researching, had both
ents and both sets of grandparents on the Secret Baptismal microfilm. The
ld's father was married and the father apparently came for the child after
birth. I do not know what happened to the mother. I do have extensive
ords of her
parents, siblings, and ancestors. I have similar records for the
her.
e child grew up in the household of his father with half siblings and the
her's wife. The half siblings, who all were apparently older, were
ortedly very m
n to the child. Nothing bad was said about
he husband's
e. I did not know the child as he grew up and became a man but I did know
son Lorenzo.
cle Lorenzo was ashamed of his father's humble beginnings and did not tell me
ut his dad until he himself was a very old man. However, others in the
ily did tell me the family secret and I was able to get at the truth.
e child was also listed in the regular baptismal records with only his mother
maternal grandparents and padrinos.
is said that about 1/3 of the children born in Mexico did not have legally
parents. It is not for me/us to judge. I would have liked to have known
the facts about Uncle Lorenzo's father when I first started research in 1978
ause it would have made my search a bit easier. However we learn things when
o and that is why we keep digging for the true facts.
ncerely,
ricia Burton
Diego, Ca.
earching in Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco el Alto, and La Barca, Jalisco
- On Thu, 7/9/09, viteliky@hotmail.com wrote:
rom: viteliky@hotmail.com
bject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
te: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:43 PM
la a todos:
n busqueda20de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en
que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama
AUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de
popan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con es
tipo de registro
ecreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle20a
alquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede
pliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
creto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño
utizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
tilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto
e pudieran proporcionarme.
lessandro
*******************************************************************************
ello everyone:
esearching information about an ancestor, I found that the
lm he is registered/christened is called "Secret
ristenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal.
nding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like
ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can
tend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret?
at does it contain? Is by chance, the baptized child a son
a violation, incest or something similar? I would
preciate very much any information related.
incerely
lessandro
Bautismos SECRETOS?
My husband's great grandmother said when she was young the priests would record baptisms in the book of "hijos naturales" if the father was not present for the baptism. Even if the priest knew the parents were married. She said the priests would not take anyone's word, but the father's that the child was legitimate.
> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:51:06 -0700
> From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
> In Jerez they were a little kinder and called it hijos naturales but I found there were many people who were there as umarried but I had a marriage record for them. As someone else said they had many children sometimes and one wonders who decided they belonged in this book. In Jerez the film is 0439889 and covers 1867 to 1875. Unfortunately I did not get to complete it.
>
> Linda in Everett
>
> --- On Thu, 7/9/09, ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO wrote:
>
>
> From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 8:06 PM
>
>
>
> Esthela:
>
>
>
> Thank you for your comment. You know what? About what you say, it is very strange saying the parents were not married because this child I am talking about is the 8th son (and the last-one) for the same parents. No doubt he is their son, I consider after 30 years living together and having 8 sons this couple of parents SHOULD be married. I really think they were married, and I think there must be another cause for this type of registration too.
>
>
>
> But anyway, I hope to find out soon, I thank your comment and I take it just like that till new information comes out. This is my very 1st. hint.
>
>
>
>
> LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
>
> Ser de Luz!!!
>
>
>
>
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:48:11 -0400
> > From: sjlstar@aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> >
> > Alessandro,
> > no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los ninos que tien padres que no son casados.....
> >
> > the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not married.....hence the child is a bastard...
> >
> > Stella
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: viteliky@hotmail.com
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> >
> >
> > Hola a todos:
> >
> > En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia catolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era secreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto que pudieran proporcionarme.
> >
> > Alessandro
> >
> > ********************************************************************************
> >
> > Hello everyone:
> >
> > Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is registered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church records for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I would like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or explain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by ch
> > ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I would appreciate very much any information related.
> >
> > Sincerely
> >
> > Alessandro
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Y tú, ¿ya actualizaste tu Perfil?
> http://www.actualizatuperfil.com.mx/
Bautismos SECRETOS?
books are not secrets that are not classified as natural children, as in
tepetongo zacatecas Baptisms 1843-1860,1862-1919 of natural children - FHL
INTL Film [1158157]
no son libros secretos sin que estan catalogados como hijos naturales , como
en tepetongo zacatecas Bautismos de hijos naturales 1843-1860,1862-1919 -
FHL INTL Film [ 1158157 ]
2009/7/16 Lona Rivera
>
> My husband's great grandmother said when she was young the priests would
> record baptisms in the book of "hijos naturales" if the father was not
> present for the baptism. Even if the priest knew the parents were married.
> She said the priests would not take anyone's word, but the father's that the
> child was legitimate.
>
> > Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:51:06 -0700
> > From: longsjourney@yahoo.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> >
> > In Jerez they were a little kinder and called it hijos naturales but I
> found there were many people who were there as umarried but I had a marriage
> record for them. As someone else said they had many children sometimes and
> one wonders who decided they belonged in this book. In Jerez the film is
> 0439889 and covers 1867 to 1875. Unfortunately I did not get to complete
> it.
> >
> > Linda in Everett
> >
> > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 8:06 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Esthela:
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your comment. You know what? About what you say, it is very
> strange saying the parents were not married because this child I am talking
> about is the 8th son (and the last-one) for the same parents. No doubt he is
> their son, I consider after 30 years living together and having 8 sons this
> couple of parents SHOULD be married. I really think they were married, and
> I think there must be another cause for this type of registration too.
> >
> >
> >
> > But anyway, I hope to find out soon, I thank your comment and I take it
> just like that till new information comes out. This is my very 1st. hint.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
> >
> > Ser de Luz!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:48:11 -0400
> > > From: sjlstar@aol.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> > >
> > > Alessandro,
> > > no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los
> ninos que tien padres que no son casados.....
> > >
> > > the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not
> married.....hence the child is a bastard...
> > >
> > > Stella
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: viteliky@hotmail.com
> > > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
> > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
> > >
> > >
> > > Hola a todos:
> > >
> > > En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se
> encuentra el registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900"
> de la Iglesia catolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de
> registro "secreto" me sorprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier
> persona que sepa sobre este tema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con
> informacion al respecto. Porque era secreto? Que es lo que puede contener?
> Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de insesto, violación o algo por el
> estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al respecto que pudieran
> proporcionarme.
> > >
> > > Alessandro
> > >
> > >
> ********************************************************************************
> > >
> > > Hello everyone:
> > >
> > > Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is
> registered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church
> records for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secret" record shoked me, I
> would like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend
> or explain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is
> by ch
> > > ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something
> similar? I would appreciate very much any information related.
> > >
> > > Sincerely
> > >
> > > Alessandro
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Bautismos SECRETOS?
Thank you Esthela, I get the point. It is just it sounded strange to me.
LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
Ser de Luz!!!
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 23:29:44 -0400
> From: sjlstar@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
> Alessandro,
> I searched high and low for my grandmothers birth cert. could not find it, then the lady at the LDS center told me to look at the bautismos secretos......the illegite kids.........and yes I found her there.......my gr grandmother and this man had sex without being married....(conceiving my grandmother).....he begged her to marry him but no.........my gr grandmother then married someone else and five years later her first daughter was born, five more children none of them have their birth certs in the bautismos secretos.....this was 1906 when my grandmother was born...so yes it was very embarressing not to be married then
> Stella
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:06 pm
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
>
>
>
> sthela:
>
> Thank you for your comment. You know what? About what you say, it is very
> trange saying the parents were not married because this child I am talking
> bout is the 8th son (and the last-one) for the same parents. No doubt he is
> heir son, I consider after 30 years living together and having 8 sons this
> ouple of parents SHOULD be married. I really think they were married, and I
> hink there must be another cause for this type of registration too.
>
> But anyway, I hope to find out soon, I thank your comment and I take it just
> ike that till new information comes out. This is my very 1st. hint.
>
>
> LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
> Ser de Luz!!!
>
>
> > To: rese
> arch@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:48:11 -0400
> From: sjlstar@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
> Alessandro,
> no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los ninos que
> ien padres que no son casados.....
>
> the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not married.....hence the
> hild is a bastard...
>
> Stella
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: viteliky@hotmail.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
>
>
> Hola a todos:
>
> En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra
> l registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia
> atolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto" me
> orprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este
> ema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
> ecreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de
> nsesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al
> especto que pudieran proporcionarme.
>
> Alessandro
>
> ********************************************************************************
> >
> Hello everyone:
>
> Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is
> egistered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church
> ecords for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secr
> et" record shoked me, I
> ould like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or
> xplain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by ch
> ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I
> ould appreciate very much any information related.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Alessandro
Bautismos SECRETOS?
Oh my gosh yes Alessandro its very strange!!!
How do you think I felt when this lady told me to look in the Bautismos SECRETOS........what the heck was this? secretos??? secrets???? what??? then I find my grandmother.....and why she is there and I tell my mother and she tells me...dont tell your grandmother!!!!......(about the baptism) My mother really hates that that I do this geneology.....doesn't like me finding out the family secrets.......lol.......later my gr grandmother married her first cousin and had these horrible siblings that made life very difficult for my grandmother.
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 2:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
hank you Esthela, I get the point. It is just it sounded strange to me.
IC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
Ser de Luz!!!
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 23:29:44 -0400
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
Alessandro,
I searched high and low for my grandmothers birth cert. could not find it,
hen the lady at the LDS center told me to look at the bautismos
ecretos......the illegite kids.........and yes I found her there.......my gr
randmother and this man had sex without being married....(conceiving my
randmother).....he begged her to marry him but no.........my gr grandmother
hen married someone else and five years later her first daughter was born, five
ore ch
ildren none of them have their birth certs in the bautismos
ecretos.....this was 1906 when my grandmother was born...so yes it was very
mbarressing not to be married then
Stella
-----Original Message-----
From: ALESSANDRO VITELA-TOSCANO
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 8:06 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
sthela:
Thank you for your comment. You know what? About what you say, it is very
trange saying the parents were not married because this child I am talking
bout is the 8th son (and the last-one) for the same parents. No doubt he is
heir son, I consider after 30 years living together and having 8 sons this
ouple of parents SHOULD be married. I really think they were married, and I
hink there must be another cause for this type of registration too.
But anyway, I hope to find out soon, I thank your comment and I take it just
ike that till new information comes out. This is my very 1st. hint.
LIC. ALESSANDRO VITELA
Ser de Luz!!!
> To: rese
arch@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 22:48:11 -0400
From: sjlstar@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
Alessandro,
no escrivo el espanol muy bien...pero los bautismos secretos son los ninos que
> ien padres que no son casados.....
the secret baptisms are those that the parents are not married.....hence the
hild is a bastard...
Stella0D
-----Original Message-----
From: viteliky@hotmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 7:43 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bautismos SECRETOS?
Hola a todos:
En busqueda de un antepasado, encontré que el microfilm en el que se encuentra
> l registro de su bautizo se llama "BAUTISMOS SECRETOS 1869-1900" de la Iglesia
> atolica de Zapopan, Jalisco. Encontrarme con este tipo de registro "secreto"
e
orprendio mucho y quisiera preguntarle a cualquier persona que sepa sobre este
> ema si me puede ampliar o ilustrar con informacion al respecto. Porque era
ecreto? Que es lo que puede contener? Es acaso el niño bautizado producto de
nsesto, violación o algo por el estilo? Agradeceria cualquier información al
especto que pudieran proporcionarme.
Alessandro
********************************************************************************
> >
Hello everyone:
Researching information about an ancestor, I found that the film he is
egistered/christened is called "Secret Christenings 1868-1900" at Church
ecords for Zapopan, Jal. Finding this type of "secr
et" record shoked me, I
ould like to ask anyone at NR who knows about this topic if you can extend or
xplain me more about this. Why was it secret? What does it contain? Is by ch
ance, the baptized child a son of a violation, incest or something similar? I
ould appreciate very much any information related.
Sincerely
Alessa
ndro
Rolando Romo
I don't know about secret baptisms in the 1800's. However, during the Mexican Revolution in the early 1900's many Catholic Church officials had to go underground and were often killed or imprisoned for performing religious rites.
I had an aunt that was born in Mexico during the time of the revolution and my grandfather took her to a priest during the night and had her secretly baptized in order not to get both the priest and my grandfather in trouble with the revolutionaries. Yes, my grandfather and grandmother were legally married in Monterrey and my grandmother stayed at home that night in order to take care of my uncle who was a toddler at that time. My grandparents eventually moved to Texas to escape the violence of the revolution. With the exception of one cousin (that now lives in Monterrey) our entire family of descendants from my grandparents still live in the USA.
Rolando Romo
I don't know about secret baptisms in the 1800's. However, during the Mexican Revolution in the early 1900's many Catholic Church officials had to go underground and were often killed or imprisoned for performing religious rites.
I had an aunt that was born in Mexico during the time of the revolution and my grandfather took her to a priest during the night and had her secretly baptized in order not to get both the priest and my grandfather in trouble with the revolutionaries. Yes, my grandfather and grandmother were legally married in Monterrey and my grandmother stayed at home that night in order to take care of my uncle who was a toddler at that time. My grandparents eventually moved to Texas to escape the violence of the revolution. With the exception of one cousin (that now lives in Monterrey) our entire family of descendants from my grandparents still live in the USA.