Introducing myself and giving the surnames and locations I'm researching

felix villagrana

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Hi Gabrielle-

What a coincidence how we were both wondering the same thing about Felix Villagrana having a sister. I just got done telling my family how I had this feeling that Felix had a brother or sister or brothers and sisters; that our younger Villagrana generation did not know about.

I also wondered if Felix had other "children" we also did not know about or were not aware of...
We have all these unidentified relatives in our old family albums and my father was the only one in our immediate family who knew who they all were. My father, as you probably saw in my previous postings, had passed away in 1997. He told me once who many of them were, but being so young, I could not retain everything he said. Unfortunately, my mom suffers bouts of dementia, so it's hard for her to remember. I feel so bad how my father and I were parted for many years, but that's another story for another place and time!

Going back to what I was about to say earlier, I initially assumed that my great grandfather Felix must have been born somewhere between 1875-1880 in order to have his eldest child born in 1898. It was not until I went to the hall of records that I discovered Felix was actually born in 1850, which means he and his wife Apolinares had their eldest known child "Antonio" when Felix was 48 yrs old! It's hard to believe that someone would wait so long to have children... So it made me wonder if he had other children (during his younger years) that I wasn't aware of...

I have these pictures from my dad's old photo albums; Our family believes my dad mentioned how these were his father Antonio's cousins -Which tells me that Antonio's father "Felix" probably did have either a brother and/or sister or brothers and/or sisters who had children!

Just a side note: Antonio's cousins my father spoke of were light complected in their photos resembling Felix Villagrana. There are also dark complected people in a couple of vintage family wedding photos I have, who have the same darker complection as Felix's wife, my great grandmother Apolinares Reyes Villagrana. I'll go ahead and upload these 2 images/photos here, in just a moment...

Another thing too, was that I recall my dad telling us that we had ancestors and relatives who were in theater and/or actors. When I did research the descendants of my great grandfather Felix, I did discover that his great grandson is an actor and member of SAG (Screen Actor's Guild). I also learned he works in showbiz production, behind the scenes; We just met for the first time about 2 weeks ago!

Again I have so many relatives out there that my family lost touch with. It just so turns out that this relative of mine who is in the Screen Actors Guild ...HIS grandfather Andres (Andrew) Villagrana and my grandfather Antonio were brothers! Which means he and I have the same great grandfather "Felix Villagrana"!

I also researched more records on the internet, I found other Villagrana's (an older generation) who were in the same age bracket of my grandpa Antonio, who JUST LIKE my early ancestors, were: *(#6 is interesting!)

1. born and living in Zacatecas
2. Moved to and resided in Chihuahua, Mexico, around the same time as my ancestors.
3. They also seemed to border cross and emigrate to the U.S. at the same time as my ancestors.

4. They seemed to even live around the same area of E. Los Angeles, CA, at around the same time frame as my ancestors and relatives had lived. (The older and newer generations that is.)

5. I even noticed some Villagrana households- some of who I knew were direct decendents of Felix children...had even lived in the same area around the same time of when and where I grew up, in Pico Rivera, CA. Sadly, I wasn't even aware of this growing up-I was young and clueless :( lol!

I remember when I was very young, "this woman" came over out of the blue one day to our home. She knew so much; like just about everything about my family's heritage and genealogy. At the time I thought she was just a friend of my parent's or a very distant relative...I never saw her again...

Fast forward to now...

As it turns out, it just so happened that she had only lived the next street over and only a few blocks away from our home in Pico Rivera, CA...

After all these years, I barely discover who she was upon first searching my family genealogy about 4 months ago; I also learned that she was married to my great grandfather's (Felix) son "Andres (Andrew) Villagrana"! Her name was "Barbara Villagrana." She also went by "Bobby" according to her great, great grand daughter whom I found online earlier this year. I went to meet her and the rest of her family too, about a couple of weeks ago!

Not only did she have a thorough knowledge of our family history- she seemed to go way back in time too. When she came over that one day, I was trying so hard to keep up with everything she was saying because she was so like a walking encyclopedia with all this information and she spoke about things rather quickly. :)

Sadly I found out she passed away in 2007, taking all this vital information with her. So when I tried to talk to her descendants, a lot of what they said is sketchy as they too struggle to remember what she said!

Some of the other Villagrana households in Pico Rivera whom I'm not acquainted with, MAY have descended from perhaps the unknown brothers of Felix OR maybe not? Perhaps we just happen to have the same last name.

6. Get this, as I read their documents online, which were from around the time periods of between 1915 - late 1930's I believe, (I have to go back and verify) ...I saw that "THERE WERE INDEED VILLAGRANA'S WHO STATED "THEATER" AS AN OCCUPATION on their papers! These records were among the "The Declaration of Intent to Naturalize and The Declaration of Naturalization as well as The Census and Border Crossing documents- describing their entering and being in the U.S."

I am still researching who they descended from...but again, remember how my dad mentioned those relatives/his dad's cousins who were in acting? I really do believe Felix had siblings!

All this tells me that there is a huge Villagrana family out there that I'm not even aware of, whom I'm indirectly related to.

The Census records tell me that these different Villagrana households did not just have 2 or 3 children; they were more like basketball teams! I'm sorry I'm being silly. If I recall correctly, it was more like 7 or 8 children! I can imagine how many children their children had. They also had son's who would have carried down the Villagrana name.

It made me think how many Villagrana's out there I could be related to directly and indirectly. It used to be where I'd see another Villagrana in our town telephone book and I remember telling my mom as a little girl, but she'd just tell me that just because we had the same last name, it didn't mean we were related. It turns out that the ones in our town WERE descendants of these Villagrana's that were actors or in theater!

I recently came back from a trip to California where I went to look up and meet relatives I never met before. It was such a beautiful experience! I met about 6 different households of Villagrana's and descendants whom I just found I was related to including a long lost aunt I never knew existed, now in her mid 70's!

My father Manuel Villagrana and his 1/2 sister Cecilia Villagrana (Same father, different mother; see my photos I uploaded here on site) became separated or distanced while youths growing up and now after all these years I met her! It made me cry because before I left her home, she told me to wait and she took out a beautiful heart-shaped gold locket with engravings, from the 1940's that my father had given to her as a gift before they got separated and she gave it to me instead of passing it down to her own daughter like she intended.

The reason she gave it to me was because she knew how much I missed my father since he died and she told me "Now you have something that your father held in his hands when he was alive"! I thought that was just the most beautiful and sweetest thing!

She also said that my father had given it to her right after coming home from the war or service. (He was in the Army during WWII in the South Pacific, in Guadecanal and these other islands) So that really touched my heart so much...Someone in my family did suggest that perhaps the reason he had given her that locket was because while in the service, he received a Dear John letter from a girlfriend. I heard my father was devastated that this woman did not wait for him. The way it sounded was like he bought her this locket, which he held onto to give to her. My dad had no trouble with getting girlfriends. People told me he was so handsome that he had girls flocking around him, so I was surprised to hear he got a Dear John letter. LOL :)

I am still working on the Villagran/Villagrana tree but I'm stuck right now because I can't seem to go back any further than Felix Villagrana and the year 1850. Also, I can't seemed to find any more information about his wife Apolinares Reyes (also spelled Relles by her daughter).

The Villagrana genealogy record I posted online here is not complete. I am going to go back and add more people to it and post all that I know here. I know there are a lot of people missing whom I have no knowledge of.

Oh yes, Felix Villagrana's death record indicated that he lived to be 96 yrs old and was already widowed by the time of his death in 1946 in Los Angeles, CA. I also found out through another source that upon coming to Los Angeles, he obtained a "lot" or land and built his own house in East Los Angeles, CA. The house still stands today.

Oh, you were asking about his parents and where they were from? The record says that his parents were both from Zacatecas, Mexico. I was disappointed to find that the record obtained from Norwalk, CA, listed Felix father's name as "unknown" and his mother's name is listed as "unknown(Maria)". I didn't know if this meant her maiden surname was Maria or if her first name was Maria.

I hope all this helps...

-Alexis Villagrana : )

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i am looking for and information on Alvina Villagrana

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Hi Alexis
Alvina Villagrana was probably born about 1835 in think in the state of Zacatacas. She was married to Franciso Zamarripa that is about all the info. I have on her because her son Anastacio disappeared in the hills of Zacatacas some time in the late 1890's. His wife never heard from him again so the family thinks he may have been killed or was lost. I wish I knew more but all of my husbands aunts and uncles has passed away and we have very little information.

thank you Gabrielle Zamarripa

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i am looking for and information on Alvina Villagrana

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Maria Gertrudis Zamarripa Villagrana hija de Francisco Villagrana y Alvina Villagrana crist. 23 nov 1867 San Cosme Villa de Cos, Zacatecas C601187 film I095188 Lety Reynoso

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Introducing myself and

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I have a friend who is Spanish Basque, his surname is Lazarraga, he looks "mediterranean" possiblybecause of his basque blood, then again I have met light basques. I guess in reality it all depends on yourpersonal genealogy. From personal experience northern spaniards tend to be the lightest on overall average.I have studied the history of Spain and am aware of Northern Africans, settling on the Iberian peninsula.
Daniel

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: texn_4_ever@yahoo.com
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:12:54 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introducing myself and
>
> I do not have the surname Villagran in my great-grandfather's line but I can check again, as his family was living in Zacatecas, Zacatecas at that same time period.
>
> To answer your question, as opposed to what the first reply you got here was, it could very well be a possibility you have a foriegn ancestor. Zacatecas was in the middle of both the Mexican Civil War, also known as the Guerra Reforma, as well as the French Intervention. Aside from French soldiers, you had a whole bunch of foriegners associated with the French Foriegn Legion, as well as the Austrian Legion which was composed of men from all over the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Emperor Maximillian wanted a strong core of soldiers for his army once the French left, so he especially wanted bachelors from his native homeland to come and marry into Mexican families, which some subsequently did. Even the French commander, Marshal Bazaine married into the Mexican aristocracy.
>
> Also, as another point, sure Spanish may be Celtic, but I think they are also ignoring that nearly all of Spain and all of Portugal was under North African control at one time or another. A reason why so many Spaniards have a dark complection, otherwise known as a "Mediterranean" look. Most conquistadors, as well as most Spanish men who come to settle in the first hundred years after the conquest came from southern Spain, where North African influence would have been the strongest.
>
> Just some interesting points of history to consider before you start excluding what you are told through family stories.

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Introducing myself and

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Hello Daniel,

You are right. In the north they are generally lighter. Yes there are Basque that are dark, but just as many if not more that are light.
For other readers here are some faces of Basques from Athletic Club de Bilbao. They only have Basques on their team. http://www.athletic-club.net/web/main.asp?a=1&b=1&c=0&d=0&idi=1
I get Television España Internaciónal TVEI and almost every time I see them show faces of people of the Basque political parties on the news I see güeros. You can watch their newscasts at http://www.rtve.es/

Armando

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European Ancestry in Mexico

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Adrian,

I was not ignoring Islamic Spain. I was using the history and the results of scientific research by professional genealogist to explain a direct question of why OUR ancestors look Caucasian. Spain having been under North African control has nothing to do with us being Caucasian, especially since Spain has much more European DNA than North African. Also him having a foreign ancestor still does not answer the question why the rest of us look Caucasian. Lastly, if so many of us are Caucasian due to French and soldiers of the French foreign legion why is it that professional genealogists using science and birth records haven't found these ancestors?

Armando

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European Ancestry in Mexico.

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First off, it did sound as if you were ignoring North African history in Spain. All this talk of Celtic Spanish heritage, it felt as if you were ignoring the part of Spain where most Spanish conquistadors came from. Now, I know Zacatecas and most of northern Mexico seems to be different. I myself do not dispute what you say, as my ancestors from northern Chihuahua, at least those I've traced to Spain, all come from northern Spain. The Castile half that is.
I do agree with Daniel in that it really does depend on the individual's own geneology, and not simply the fact of which part of Spain one's ancestors came from.

The other part sounded rather sarcastic, I never said all Mexicans of that area of fair complection are of French heritage. What I was trying to refute was you pointing someone down the geneological path you believe and saying the other one is just a myth. If that is so, then you surely do not know Mexican history.
Many foriegners, not just French, found their way into Mexico one way or another. In Texas, many early Anglo settlers intermarried with Tejano families. In southern New Mexico and in west Texas, many early American settlers married into influential Chihuahuan families.

We are both trying to provide information to help people, but calling someone's family history being based on a "myth", when it might be a fact, does not help his research.

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European Ancestry in Mexico.

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Adrian,

You are missing the point. The answer was in a general sense about of our area of research. There are a lot of güeros in our area of research and his ancestry is shared with those same people. They are people that I personally know and are also güeros. I have lived and gone to school in the area. I brought up the fact that there is a myth of us being descendants of French is because it is just that a myth. It is spread too often and to this day. They even had the wife of a second cousin of mine believing that exact myth. This myth should be stopped when there is no proof of it being fact. Beside it totally ignores Spanish history, the Spanish people, and the real Mexican history.
I do have a cousin that has French ancestry but he has a French surname. My wife is from Chihuahua and she is a güera. She doesn't have any foreign blood going back four generations. I am fully area of the history of Mexico and of our area of study. What happened in southern New Mexico, west Texas, and Chihuahua doesn't change the ancestry of Los Altos and surrounding areas.

Armando

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European Ancestry in Mexico.

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Armando,

I think you are mistaken when you claim I missed a point. I do not dissagree with you about there being a more distinct Spanish heritage in Zacatecas and other parts of northern Mexico than anywhere else.
A branch of my Chihuahua family, and this was during the time of the generation of my great-grand parents, were in fact very proud of being of "pure" Spanish heritage. They certainly didn't need any scientific proof about it, and as my research shows they were right. Mostly because, unlike the area of research here, many patriarchs of Chihuahua arrived in the late colonial period.

Anyways, I think it is best to leave this topic alone for the general forum. After all, most of this thread has been one of argument and not of real help to one of the newest members of this board.

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European Ancestry in Mexico.

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I actually also have French ancestry the last name Bourbon does appear as epanol in my tree.My lines are of Castilla, Asturias, Galicia, Basque, Cantabria and Leon. There is a very strongceltic influence, if you ever go to Northern Spain expect to see kilts, the music sounds Gaelicand of course the Spanish bagpipe. Two total different world, where in the south (I love Flamenco)has a more nice arabian twist with upbeat music. Madrid has always been regarded as the passagewayof the two different worlds of Spain. I was once told all europeans regardless of where they came from would be listed as espanol because they accepted and "Castilianized. This could be a reason whywe never see say the Rizzo, Lomelini, or other italian families in New Spain as espanolwhen we undoubtfully know they were italian. One thing we need to be careful about Spain yes,it is a melting pot of different groups of people but everyone has there own unique ancestry.The north although partially colonized by
Africans or Moslems did happen but there identity didnot survive the Christian kingdoms created there own unique group. Although intermixing happeneddoesnt mean every christian women took a moslem man. We are all unique. It is true you can findalmost every time of European in Mexico starting from the independence. A famous English familythat settled in Mexico were Lancaster. I also have Polish-Mexican cousins.

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: texn_4_ever@yahoo.com
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 22:03:25 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in Mexico.
>
> First off, it did sound as if you were ignoring North African history in Spain. All this talk of Celtic Spanish heritage, it felt as if you were ignoring the part of Spain where most Spanish conquistadors came from. Now, I know Zacatecas and most of northern Mexico seems to be different. I myself do not dispute what you say, as my ancestors from northern Chihuahua, at least those I've traced to Spain, all come from northern Spain. The Castile half that is.
>
> The other part sounded rather sarcastic, I never said all Mexicans of that area of fair complection are of French heritage. What I was trying to refute was you pointing someone down the geneological path you believe and saying the other one is just a myth. If that is so, then you surely do not know Mexican history.
> Many foriegners, not just French, found their way into Mexico one way or another. In Texas, many early Anglo settlers intermarried with Tejano families. In southern New Mexico and in west Texas, many early American settlers married into influential Chihuahuan families.
>
> We are both trying to provide information to help people, but calling someone's family history being based on a "myth", when it might be a fact, does not help his research.

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European Ancestry in

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We should relax or at least calm down on the whole race thing, we dont want to make a big deal likelast time, just my two cents.
Daniel

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:48:18 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
> Adrian,
>
> I was not ignoring Islamic Spain. I was using the history and the results of scientific research by professional genealogist to explain a direct question of why OUR ancestors look Caucasian. Spain having been under North African control has nothing to do with us being Caucasian, especially since Spain has much more European DNA than North African. Also him having a foreign ancestor still does not answer the question why the rest of us look Caucasian. Lastly, if so many of us are Caucasian due to French and soldiers of the French foreign legion why is it that professional genealogists using science and birth records haven't found these ancestors?
>
> Armando

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European Ancestry in

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I am glad that we had the discussion the last time because it forced me to set aside all other research and direct my focus on this issue to find the truth and I now have more solid information about these lines. As busy as life has come at me lately, I probably would not have thrown myself only in that direction to backup what I already had. It was through that focus that I was able to gather a gold mine of information from threads there for the pulling that I had missed before.
As to the french ancestors of the rodriguez defrias y hijar los altos, the first immigrants would have known about their french ancestor because there is so much story, drama, in his life and that of his french family. The drama continued as they made their impact in spain.
That it was something to pass on because at first it set you apart from the other familys around you that had already intermarried so much, though his wife was of the mendoza family that was part of all the intermarriage. There is a portrait of this french ancestor hanging in a museum in Paris france.
You can also look much further back in the family tree and look at how often eleanor of Aquitane shows up as an ancestor to the first families of jalisco through both her english children from her 2nd marriage and one of her French daughters from her 1st marriage.
While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool.
Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant to me. And the small portion of the pool keeps getting larger the more I research.
The research has also proved that some lines did not intermarry with these minorities.
It was interesting to find that the assertations of some of our Ancestors of having no jewish blood and being from old christian families was because a Roman Catholic Pope wrote a statement making descendents of this jewish family all cristianos viejos because they had intermingled, intermarried so much with the royalty and the nobility, because they had done so much work in the catholic church, and because they came from the same tribe of Mary the mother of jesus.
This papal declaration led to a royal declaration to the same effect a few years later.
I hope to have a book,or at least an essay on this subject finished by this time next year.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:28:55
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in

We should relax or at least calm down on the whole race thing, we dont want to make a big deal likelast time, just my two cents.
Daniel

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:48:18 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
> Adrian,
>
> I was not ignoring Islamic Spain. I was using the history and the results of scientific research by professional genealogist to explain a direct question of why OUR ancestors look Caucasian. Spain having been under North African control has nothing to do with us being Caucasian, especially since Spain has much more European DNA than North African. Also him having a foreign ancestor still does not answer the question why the rest of us look Caucasian. Lastly, if so many of us are Caucasian due to French and soldiers of the French foreign legion why is it that professional genealogists using science and birth records haven't found these ancestors?
>
> Armando

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European Ancestry in

Comment

Hello R.A.,

I also feel it is better to have the discussions. Also, you have stated what my point has been all along with the following -

"While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool."

I agree with this too while not ignoring the previous statement while using all available tools. "Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant"

I feel people, too often, focus on the exception to the rule as opposed to what should be done which is mention the rule first then mention the exceptions. There is also the other side of the coin where generalizations are made and the exceptions never mentioned. Most of the links I provided contained information about both the rule and the exceptions.

Armando

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European Ancestry in

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I guess that since so much of my genealogy is being researched by other cousins to find the general rule because it is easier to find relatives, I enjoy going into new territory and finding the exceptions even if they only contribute a little bit to the gene pool. The result is that I keep finding the exceptions and that little pool is slowly growing, although still a small minority.
There is a differrence when a prominent genealogist comes up with only one line and I find half a dozen lines.
------Original Message------
From: fandemma@gmail.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
Sent: Apr 22, 2010 8:55 AM

Hello R.A.,

I also feel it is better to have the discussions. Also, you have stated what my point has been all along with the following -

"While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool."

I agree with this too while not ignoring the previous statement while using all available tools. "Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant"

I feel people, too often, focus on the exception to the rule as opposed to what should be done which is mention the rule first then mention the exceptions. There is also the other side of the coin where generalizations are made and the exceptions never mentioned. Most of the links I provided contained information about both the rule and the exceptions.

Armando

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European Ancestry in

Comment

Speaking of gene pools, the gene pool of Los Altos IS so small becuase of intermarriage.

I have always been fascinated by our gene pool. I even have a cousin who all

8 great grandparents are Martin del Campo. It is a bit scary but some families refused to

marry certain family, just the central core families. I was also told once the alteno criollos

would rather marry a fellow alteno then a peninsular but of course it wasnt out of the question. I think this is why few post 1700s peninsulares are found. And to think

we all started with peninsulares but the altenos created their own identity.

Daniel

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:24:19 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
> I am glad that we had the discussion the last time because it forced me to set aside all other research and direct my focus on this issue to find the truth and I now have more solid information about these lines. As busy as life has come at me lately, I probably would not have thrown myself only in that direction to backup what I already had. It was through that focus that I was able to gather a gold mine of information from threads there for the pulling that I had missed before.
> As to the french ancestors of the rodriguez defrias y hijar los altos, the first immigrants would have known about their french ancestor because there is so much story, drama, in his life and that of his french family. The drama continued as they made their impact in spain.
> That it was something to pass on because at first it set you apart from the other familys around you that had already intermarried so much, though his wife was of the mendoza family that was part of all the intermarriage. There is a portrait of this french ancestor hanging in a museum in Paris france.
> You can also look much further back in the family tree and look at how often eleanor of Aquitane shows up as an ancestor to the first families of jalisco through both her english children from her 2nd marriage and one of her French daughters from her 1st marriage.
> While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool.
> Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant to me. And the small portion of the pool keeps getting larger the more I research.
> The research has also proved that some lines did not intermarry with these minorities.
> It was interesting to find that the assertations of some of our Ancestors of having no jewish blood and being from old christian families was because a Roman Catholic Pope wrote a statement making descendents of this jewish family all cristianos viejos because they had intermingled, intermarried so much with the royalty and the nobility, because they had done so much work in the catholic church, and because they came from the same tribe of Mary the mother of jesus.
> This papal declaration led to a royal declaration to the same effect a few years later.
> I hope to have a book,or at least an essay on this subject finished by this time next year.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:28:55
> To: Patty Hoyos
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
>
> We should relax or at least calm down on the whole race thing, we dont want to make a big deal likelast time, just my two cents.
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:48:18 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
> >
> > Adrian,
> >
> > I was not ignoring Islamic Spain. I was using the history and the results of scientific research by professional genealogist to explain a direct question of why OUR ancestors look Caucasian. Spain having been under North African control has nothing to do with us being Caucasian, especially since Spain has much more European DNA than North African. Also him having a foreign ancestor still does not answer the question why the rest of us look Caucasian. Lastly, if so many of us are Caucasian due to French and soldiers of the French foreign legion why is it that professional genealogists using science and birth records haven't found these ancestors?
> >
> > Armando
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
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European Ancestry in

Comment

The martin del campo seemed to intermarry even more than the alteno average it seems, or maybe it just seems that way. I too have a cousin who has multiple grandparents surnamed martin del campo.
My wife and I both have an ancestor martin del campo that we both descend from 7 times to make us 5 th cousins over and over. My franco lines also seem to have intermarried very often.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:19:09
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in

Speaking of gene pools, the gene pool of Los Altos IS so small becuase of intermarriage.

I have always been fascinated by our gene pool. I even have a cousin who all

8 great grandparents are Martin del Campo. It is a bit scary but some families refused to

marry certain family, just the central core families. I was also told once the alteno criollos

would rather marry a fellow alteno then a peninsular but of course it wasnt out of the question. I think this is why few post 1700s peninsulares are found. And to think

we all started with peninsulares but the altenos created their own identity.

Daniel

> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:24:19 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
> I am glad that we had the discussion the last time because it forced me to set aside all other research and direct my focus on this issue to find the truth and I now have more solid information about these lines. As busy as life has come at me lately, I probably would not have thrown myself only in that direction to backup what I already had. It was through that focus that I was able to gather a gold mine of information from threads there for the pulling that I had missed before.
> As to the french ancestors of the rodriguez defrias y hijar los altos, the first immigrants would have known about their french ancestor because there is so much story, drama, in his life and that of his french family. The drama continued as they made their impact in spain.
> That it was something to pass on because at first it set you apart from the other familys around you that had already intermarried so much, though his wife was of the mendoza family that was part of all the intermarriage. There is a portrait of this french ancestor hanging in a museum in Paris france.
> You can also look much further back in the family tree and look at how often eleanor of Aquitane shows up as an ancestor to the first families of jalisco through both her english children from her 2nd marriage and one of her French daughters from her 1st marriage.
> While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool.
> Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant to me. And the small portion of the pool keeps getting larger the more I research.
> The research has also proved that some lines did not intermarry with these minorities.
> It was interesting to find that the assertations of some of our Ancestors of having no jewish blood and being from old christian families was because a Roman Catholic Pope wrote a statement making descendents of this jewish family all cristianos viejos because they had intermingled, intermarried so much with the royalty and the nobility, because they had done so much work in the catholic church, and because they came from the same tribe of Mary the mother of jesus.
> This papal declaration led to a royal declaration to the same effect a few years later.
> I hope to have a book,or at least an essay on this subject finished by this time next year.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:28:55
> To: Patty Hoyos
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
>
> We should relax or at least calm down on the whole race thing, we dont want to make a big deal likelast time, just my two cents.
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:48:18 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
> >
> > Adrian,
> >
> > I was not ignoring Islamic Spain. I was using the history and the results of scientific research by professional genealogist to explain a direct question of why OUR ancestors look Caucasian. Spain having been under North African control has nothing to do with us being Caucasian, especially since Spain has much more European DNA than North African. Also him having a foreign ancestor still does not answer the question why the rest of us look Caucasian. Lastly, if so many of us are Caucasian due to French and soldiers of the French foreign legion why is it that professional genealogists using science and birth records haven't found these ancestors?
> >
> > Armando
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
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European Ancestry in

Comment

Yes, also all my grandparents are cousins even multiple cousins thanks goodnessI was born in the US, ha ha. Its funny many cousins tend to look the sameand have similar traits. In our family blue eye is more common for males whilegreen is more common for women in our family. Same with hair brown formales blonde for women. This is fascinating, maybe someone knows a bit onwhy this occurs male lines and female lines. I have to disprove a common stereotype,most genealogist say female lines are usually native american or carry the blood, but in my geneaoglywhich is documented very carefully my direct maternal line (so mother's mother's mothers etc is espanola.) Just anotherexample on how every person is unique and so is their genealogy. I do have to agreethat usually the paternal direct line is espanol though. I descend from the Franco de la Cueva, Perez Franco, Franco de Paredes about 6 times, the martin del Campo about 16times. We should figure out who our common ancestors are,
this would be neat.
Daniel
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 04:07:15 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
> The martin del campo seemed to intermarry even more than the alteno average it seems, or maybe it just seems that way. I too have a cousin who has multiple grandparents surnamed martin del campo.
> My wife and I both have an ancestor martin del campo that we both descend from 7 times to make us 5 th cousins over and over. My franco lines also seem to have intermarried very often.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:19:09
> To: Patty Hoyos
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>
>
> Speaking of gene pools, the gene pool of Los Altos IS so small becuase of intermarriage.
>
> I have always been fascinated by our gene pool. I even have a cousin who all
>
> 8 great grandparents are Martin del Campo. It is a bit scary but some families refused to
>
> marry certain family, just the central core families. I was also told once the alteno criollos
>
> would rather marry a fellow alteno then a peninsular but of course it wasnt out of the question. I think this is why few post 1700s peninsulares are found. And to think
>
> we all started with peninsulares but the altenos created their own identity.
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
>> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:24:19 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>>
>> I am glad that we had the discussion the last time because it forced me to set aside all other research and direct my focus on this issue to find the truth and I now have more solid information about these lines. As busy as life has come at me lately, I probably would not have thrown myself only in that direction to backup what I already had. It was through that focus that I was able to gather a gold mine of information from threads there for the pulling that I had missed before.
>> As to the french ancestors of the rodriguez defrias y hijar los altos, the first immigrants would have known about their french ancestor because there is so much story, drama, in his life and that of his french family. The drama continued as they made their impact in spain.
>> That it was something to pass on because at first it set you apart from the other familys around you that had already intermarried so much, though his wife was of the mendoza family that was part of all the intermarriage. There is a portrait of this french ancestor hanging in a museum in Paris france.
>> You can also look much further back in the family tree and look at how often eleanor of Aquitane shows up as an ancestor to the first families of jalisco through both her english children from her 2nd marriage and one of her French daughters from her 1st marriage.
>> While I find the jewish, moor and french lines to be true in my case, it is also a reality that as we look at the percentage of the genetic makeup of our ancestors that they make up only a relatively small part of our genetic pool.
>> Just because it is small does not make it irrelevant to me. And the small portion of the pool keeps getting larger the more I research.
>> The research has also proved that some lines did not intermarry with these minorities.
>> It was interesting to find that the assertations of some of our Ancestors of having no jewish blood and being from old christian families was because a Roman Catholic Pope wrote a statement making descendents of this jewish family all cristianos viejos because they had intermingled, intermarried so much with the royalty and the nobility, because they had done so much work in the catholic church, and because they came from the same tribe of Mary the mother of jesus.
>> This papal declaration led to a royal declaration to the same effect a few years later.
>> I hope to have a book,or at least an essay on this subject finished by this time next year.
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
>> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:28:55
>> To: Patty Hoyos
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>>
>>
>> We should relax or at least calm down on the whole race thing, we dont want to make a big deal likelast time, just my two cents.
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>> From: fandemma@gmail.com
>>> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 21:48:18 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] European Ancestry in
>>>
>>> Adrian,
>>>
>>> I was not ignoring Islamic Spain. I was using the history and the results of scientific research by professional genealogist to explain a direct question of why OUR ancestors look Caucasian. Spain having been under North African control has nothing to do with us being Caucasian, especially since Spain has much more European DNA than North African. Also him having a foreign ancestor still does not answer the question why the rest of us look Caucasian. Lastly, if so many of us are Caucasian due to French and soldiers of the French foreign legion why is it that professional genealogists using science and birth records haven't found these ancestors?
>>>
>>> Armando
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL…

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European Ancestry in

Comment

Hello Daniel,

This is concerning your statements -
"In our family blue eye is more common for males while green is more common for women in our family. Same with hair brown for males blonde for women. This is fascinating, maybe someone knows a bit on why this occurs male lines and female lines. I have to disprove a common stereotype,most genealogist say female lines are usually native american or carry the blood, but in my geneaogly which is documented very carefully my direct maternal line (so mother's mother's mothers etc is espanola.) Just another example on how every person is unique and so is their genealogy."

There are multiple theories on why women, in general, are lighter more often than men. The one I think was the most plausible is that they need more vitamin D from the sun.

Concerning the common stereotype of female lines usually being Native American origin. When genealogists mention this they speak of the general rule and not the exception. They do acknowledge that there is a lower percentage of non-native ancestry found and they include the results in the studies. Therefore, your situation does not disprove the stereotype, what it does is provide another example of the exception. A comprehensive analysis of our area would be interesting.

Armando

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European Ancestry in Mexico

Comment

I agree with you Daniel. To me, all this talk just sounds like a continued justification of why one's family is whiter than someone elses.

Just like the author of this post, my Montalvo great grandparents, and the Cabral relatives of my great grandmother, left Zacatecas during the revolution for the north. Their looks seem to be the norm for what people like Armando were saying, colored eyes, brown hair and fairly light skin. In essense, probably looking more "Spanish" than my Chihuahua ancestors.
My point being, looks of a specific ethnicity aren't always typical, so even if you came from northern Spain, you still might have olive colored skin and brown eyes. The same for those in southern Spain, your ancestor could have had Moor ancestry but have green eyes and light skin.

The point being, everyone's geneology is different. It is how you choose to summerize it is what counts.

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Re: European Ancestry in Mexico

Comment

Wow, thank you so very much for your reply to my post! I really appreciate all the replies giving to me and I am learning so much...It's like putting pieces of a puzzle together. Is there a way to post photos to share?-are we allowed? I came across photos found of my ancestors such as my great grandparents on both sides. I have to say I was a little perplexed when I was reading their descriptions on their different documents found online. I began to wonder if I was reading about different people with the same name. Even different relatives give different accounts of the color of eyes my grandfather Antonio Villagran(a) had. I was told blue, than I was told green, then told hazel. Hope they weren't color blind, lol, but even documents gave different eye colors as time went by! This may be a silly question, but does eye color change as we mature?

I was so excited when I found photos of my great grandfather Felix Villagran(a) and his wife Apolinares Reyes Villagran(a). I even saw a different spelling of her name as being Relles. My great grandfather definitely looks European. His wife looks darker complected.

Interestingly, in relation with the comments posted, I've had many people approach me and tell me I look Mediterranean; I've even been approached by Native Americans and told they recognize Native American in me and the same thing with Afro-Americans too. Of course Spaniards recognizing I am also a Spaniard.

My late father Manuel Villagrana, whose parents were Antonio Villagran(a) from Zacatecas, Mexico and his mother Antonia (Delgado) Villagrana also from Mexico (I'm still verifying what part she was from)
had said that while he was overseas serving in World War II, he was yelled at by an angry Japanese man who called him a traitor because the man thought that my dad was half Japanese! Hmm-go figure!

So it is interesting to trace the steps of our ancestors!

-Alexis Villagrana

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Re: European Ancestry in Mexico

Comment

Alexis,

The story of your father is interesting. It reminds me of the movie Windtalkers but with a Native American resembling the Japanese. In another story, there was a WWII war hero that was Hispanic but brought up by Japanse Americans. He learned Japanese while living with them. In the war he convinced the Japanese to surrender after he talked to them. I worked with a guy that was 3/4 Native American and 1/4 Irish American. He was a white guy with dark curly hair. Basically he didn't look Native American at all. I have a copy of a birth certificate that also shows her mother as Relles. I think is my ggg-grandmother but I am not sure if she really is an ancestor. I have no idea if eye color can change, but I think perception can have something to do with it too. I have heard the same thing about other people. Some people don't even notice at first that I have hazel eyes.

Armando

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European Ancestry in

Comment

Yup, eye color can skip generation also hair color, my father is blue and my mother is greenI have brown eyes, I have one grandparent with brown eyes. The rest are light eyes. My father is "brunette" (Ha ha) and my mother is a blonde. I have my father's hair. I think genetics with genealogy makes a good project!
Daniel

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Introducing myself and

Comment

IT is true, northern Spain is way different from the south there is a "mysticalfeeling" and very strong celtic culture. The Spanish and English are alsovery closely related.
Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 08:18:36 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introducing myself and
>
> Hello Alexis, the genealogist Mariano Leal and many others, including a late uncle of mine, state that it is a myth that we are French. I also believe it is a myth. You can read Mariano's LOS+MITOS+SEFARDITA+Y+FRANCES at http://genealogia-mexico-occidente.googlegroups.com/web/LOS+MITOS+SEFAR…
> Also, we look Caucasian because we are Caucasian from our Spanish ancestry. During the Last Glacial Maximum the Iberian Peninsula was a refuge for Europeans. Some of the descendants stayed and others moved on. They left the R1b DNA marker which is still prevalent in Spain. Later in time as Europe warmed and spread so did the people. Some returning to Spain including the east German romanized Catholoc Visigoths who invaded Iberia and established a kingdom. Many names and toponyms come from them such as Ricardo (Reccared) and Rodrigo (Roderic) and customs such as the use of a Coat of Arms. Supposedly the highest concentration of their descendants are in Asturias. Based on DNA the people of the British Isles, especially the Irish, descend from the Basque people of Spain. The migration is estimated to have taken place 8,000 years ago. R1b is present in Irish 90-98% and Basques 90-95%. Our people descend from them and it is why we are generally lighter than most regions of Mexico
> and it is why we are Caucasians. This is not limited to our area though. There are güeros all over Mexico with Monterrey and Chihuahua being others that have a large population of güeros.
> Here is a link to the birth record of Jose de Guadalupe Romo baptized 15 Sep 1887 in La Encarnación, Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco, Mexico son of Francisco Romo and Damasa Casillas - http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordResults;b…
> The link to the marriage of Francisco Romo and Damasa Casillas with lots of other info - http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage;c=1…
> Use that site http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start to search for more births and marriages and post back. You will undoubtedly find others researching some of the same families once you report back.
> I couldn't find more info on Felix Villagran, Apolnares Reyes, Gregoria Martín, or their descendants.
> You can order copies of whole books through mail using the form found here - http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/Rg/frameset_rg.asp?Dest=G1&Aid=&…
> So if you found out the place Gregoria Martin was married in you could order copies of all the marriages of that town in 1906. For Felix Villagran since you already know the date the town is only needed to get a copy of that. Once they get all the church records for Zacatecas and Jalisco online we won't have to order microfilms or copies anymore but we will still have to browse a lot of images when we don't have exact dates and places.
>
> Links for Visigoth history and DNA information:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigoths
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R1b
> http://www.iberianroots.com/Statistics/mexico.html
> http://www.iberianroots.com/Statistics/spain.html
> http://sd-1.archive-host.com/membres/up/134696768219527874/Thegeneticle…
> http://www.ybase.org/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=511&PN=1
> http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA
> http://garyfelix.tripod.com/index63.htm
>
> Armando Antuñano

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Introducing myself and

Comment

I believe that it comes down to semantics. You could argue both ways. The truth of the matter is that many of the ancestors of the first immigrants to los altos jalisco had themselves ancestors that descended from an area which we traditionally say was part of the iberian kingdoms but was split up with the north being in present france and the southern portion in present Spain. The rodriguez de frias y hijar can also add french ancestors from farther north in the center of modern day france.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: fandemma@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 08:18:36
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introducing myself and

Hello Alexis, the genealogist Mariano Leal and many others, including a late uncle of mine, state that it is a myth that we are French. I also believe it is a myth. You can read Mariano's LOS+MITOS+SEFARDITA+Y+FRANCES at http://genealogia-mexico-occidente.googlegroups.com/web/LOS+MITOS+SEFAR…
Also, we look Caucasian because we are Caucasian from our Spanish ancestry. During the Last Glacial Maximum the Iberian Peninsula was a refuge for Europeans. Some of the descendants stayed and others moved on. They left the R1b DNA marker which is still prevalent in Spain. Later in time as Europe warmed and spread so did the people. Some returning to Spain including the east German romanized Catholoc Visigoths who invaded Iberia and established a kingdom. Many names and toponyms come from them such as Ricardo (Reccared) and Rodrigo (Roderic) and customs such as the use of a Coat of Arms. Supposedly the highest concentration of their descendants are in Asturias. Based on DNA the people of the British Isles, especially the Irish, descend from the Basque people of Spain. The migration is estimated to have taken place 8,000 years ago. R1b is present in Irish 90-98% and Basques 90-95%. Our people descend from them and it is why we are generally lighter than most regions of Mexico
and it is why we are Caucasians. This is not limited to our area though. There are güeros all over Mexico with Monterrey and Chihuahua being others that have a large population of güeros.
Here is a link to the birth record of Jose de Guadalupe Romo baptized 15 Sep 1887 in La Encarnación, Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco, Mexico son of Francisco Romo and Damasa Casillas - http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordResults;b…
The link to the marriage of Francisco Romo and Damasa Casillas with lots of other info - http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=recordimage;c=1…
Use that site http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start to search for more births and marriages and post back. You will undoubtedly find others researching some of the same families once you report back.
I couldn't find more info on Felix Villagran, Apolnares Reyes, Gregoria Martín, or their descendants.
You can order copies of whole books through mail using the form found here - http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/Rg/frameset_rg.asp?Dest=G1&Aid=&…
So if you found out the place Gregoria Martin was married in you could order copies of all the marriages of that town in 1906. For Felix Villagran since you already know the date the town is only needed to get a copy of that. Once they get all the church records for Zacatecas and Jalisco online we won't have to order microfilms or copies anymore but we will still have to browse a lot of images when we don't have exact dates and places.

Links for Visigoth history and DNA information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigoths
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R1b
http://www.iberianroots.com/Statistics/mexico.html
http://www.iberianroots.com/Statistics/spain.html
http://sd-1.archive-host.com/membres/up/134696768219527874/Thegeneticle…
http://www.ybase.org/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=511&PN=1
http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Mexico-DNA
http://garyfelix.tripod.com/index63.htm

Armando Antuñano

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The Romo's of Encarnacion de Diaz and Villagrana's of Zacatecas.

Comment

Thank you so much for your reply with all the information and links for me to read and study!!!

Yes, there are a lot of myths floating around out there... There was a rumour among the Villagrana family that we were related to Poncho Villa. It was also speculated that our name started off as being Villa and as time went by, the "gran" and the "a" were later added, hence making the speculation we were related.

I quickly found out that José Doroteo Arango Arámbula was better known by his pseudonym Francisco Villa or its hypocorism Pancho Villa.

It was later on that I was able to look at The Villagrana Family Crest-Coat of Arms sign my brother had purchased and view the origins of our name.

You know how in my post I mentioned about a Romo on my mom's side of my family being a Bishop or some spiritual person? Well a relative told me today that this Romo was a saint who has a shrine in Encarnacion de Diaz. So I just wanted to update...

I am still reading on all the information you provided but wanted to contact you back right away to thank you so very much for the wealth of information you provided me... I will definitely post back after reading all you provided!

-Alexis Villagrana

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The Romo's of Encarnacion de Diaz andVillagrana's of Zacatecas.

Comment

Santo Toribio Romo Gonzalez was from Santa Ana between valle de gpe and San miguel el alto. It was not a city and more like a ranch with a group of houses.
Many people feel that the people from la Chona are wrong in claiming him. But The reason that Encarnacion de diaz claims him is because one of his great grandfathers lived in that area for a time and left many Romo relatives there when he moved to the jalostotitlan/san miguel el alto area.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: alexisvillagrana@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:54:39
To:
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] The Romo's of Encarnacion de Diaz and
Villagrana's of Zacatecas.

Thank you so much for your reply with all the information and links for me to read and study!!!

Yes, there are a lot of myths floating around out there... There was a rumour among the Villagrana family that we were related to Poncho Villa. It was also speculated that our name started off as being Villa and as time went by, the "gran" and the "a" were later added, hence making the speculation we were related.

I quickly found out that José Doroteo Arango Arámbula was better known by his pseudonym Francisco Villa or its hypocorism Pancho Villa.

It was later on that I was able to look at The Villagrana Family Crest-Coat of Arms sign my brother had purchased and view the origins of our name.

You know how in my post I mentioned about a Romo on my mom's side of my family being a Bishop or some spiritual person? Well a relative told me today that this Romo was a saint who has a shrine in Encarnacion de Diaz. So I just wanted to update...

I am still reading on all the information you provided but wanted to contact you back right away to thank you so very much for the wealth of information you provided me... I will definitely post back after reading all you provided!

-Alexis Villagrana

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RE:The Romo's of Jalisco and a Saint's name...

Comment

R.A. Ricci:

Oh wow- I just read your post...thank you! Earlier, one of the members here also contacted me re. this particular Saint in question who is connected to my mom's Romo side of the family.

When I spoke with my brother again, he did tell me he remembered this shrine dedicated to a Romo who was a Saint, being located between Guadalajara and Encarnacion de Diaz. He also brought up La Chona too...

When I checked on the map, I saw how this one shrine was indeed located between these 2 cities; in Santa Ana de Guadalupe, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco, Mx! THANK YOU ALL for helping me piece the puzzle together of the mystery relative/ancestor who was a saint: SAINT TORRIBIO ROMO GONZALEZ!

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RE:The Romo's of Jalisco and a Saint's name...

Comment

Hello Alexis,

I couldn't tell if this was evident to you. La Chona is the nickname for Encarnación de Díaz.

Armando

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The Romo's of

Comment

Armando,

My maternal grandparents were born in Encarnacion de Diaz. What is the
origination of the nickname "La Chona"?

Paul Gomez
Rancho Cucamonga, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
fandemma@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:56 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The Romo's of

Hello Alexis,

I couldn't tell if this was evident to you. La Chona is the nickname for
Encarnación de Díaz.

Armando

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The Romo's of

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Hello Paul,

I imagine, and in no way certain, that it went like this - La Encarnación
became La Encarnachon which became La Chona. Just like Jesus became Chus or
Chuy and Luisa became Licha and so on.

Armando

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:56 AM, Paul J Gomez wrote:

> Armando,
>
> My maternal grandparents were born in Encarnacion de Diaz. What is the
> origination of the nickname "La Chona"?
>
> Paul Gomez
> Rancho Cucamonga, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
> fandemma@gmail.com
> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:56 AM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] The Romo's of
>
> Hello Alexis,
>
> I couldn't tell if this was evident to you. La Chona is the nickname for
> Encarnación de Díaz.
>
> Armando

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RE:The Romo's of Jalisco and a Saint's name...

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Hello Armando :)

When I heard my brother say it-he ran the words and whole name together like "Encarnacion de Diaz or La Chona" that my ears initially heard it as all being one name. The same with my mom, so I was a little confused. I wasn't sure if the latter part "La Chona" was a nickname or a nearby village, but now I know :)

Thanks!

Alexis

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Introducing myself and giving the surnames and locations I'm researching

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