Madera, just a note, in the days of "Nueva Galicia" there were no frontiers between the states that conforms the area today, it was a macro state and a at some level independent from "La Intendencia de Mexico", thus passing between today Zac, Jal, etc. wasn't really crossing any border.
Like Cathy mentioned the relation between the Jerezes are its founders, but the Spanish is the one with the "de la frontera" name, is quite difficult to sort them out, even more if we take in account how many records mentioned "jerez" the wine/vinegar instead.
This is more or less what the introductory letter says (first page):
Antonio madera vzo (vecino) de la ciudad de Sivilla (sevilla) dize que en la Nueva
España esta y reside maestre Alo. (Alonso) su cuñado el cual es ?? (barbero?) y cirujano hombre fin? y sin hijos porque una hija q' tenia se metio de monja, y es administrador del ospital real de la ciudad de mexico y por no tener hijos como dicho es nuestro heredero mas cercano q' a la mujer del dicho Antonio madera q' es su hermana los a ymbiado (embiado) alla(allá) mas para el dar su hacienda y as sus hijos y a si mismo los a ymbiado dinero para hacer el viaje como pido? parece Por la ynformacion que presenta y por que ellos son pobres y padecen muncha necessidad y assi les ymporta su remedio y a permanecer la dha' (dicha) Nueva España en compañia del dicho su cuñado y Hermano suplica a V. alza. (vuestra alteza) les mande dar licenza. (licencia) para alla q' enello recibira mucho?
I put question marks on words that don't convince me, is practically the typical petition for a licence to go to America, the next pages may contain more information but usually is just the witnesses declarations. If this is one of your ancestors you should try this document as your spring project :)
Katy, just like Armando mentioned there is many records missing in the historical national/state archives in Mexico and in Spain, many were sent back and forward and finally kept on different territories, many were lost, destroyed, misplaced, you name it. There are many that still archived with out been truly indexed even less shown on the Internet, there is also those that where taken from the archives and sold them to private parties like collectors, in Mexico specially after the revolution many records "disappeared", and although many were destroyed, reality is that they are on someones collections. In my hometown, its native historian the renown J. Amaya Topete found the original documents of the first spanish description of the town (when the natives where still culturally alive) in the University of Austin Texas, go figure how it end up there, a least who ever had it, pass it to an institution, we don't have that much luck with other records.
Any way, the wikipedia entry for Jerez, Zac. in spanish states that its local Historian Luis Miguel Berumen Félix, keeps himself those records concerning the people you just mention, it looks like he has some publications about it, my guess is that the only way for you to put an eye on those records is by contacting him directly. It also mention that some records are in the Guadalajara archives.
In case you haven't, there are also some indexed records of the "Audiencia de Nueva Galicia" on the Public Library of Jalisco website. You may find something there too.
ok i'll check into that. the reason why i'm looking, because i've seen a few trees mistakenly refer to hernan gonzalez as being a son of pedro carrillo davila and sancha vazquez de tapia when hernan is too old to be a possible son of theirs(feel free to ask how i came up with that conclusion). i would like figure out who are his parents actually, and to see if pedro carrillo davila and hernan gonzalez were perhaps related to each other in some other way.
it would be nice if i could also find if hernan's wife was either a full or half sister of miguel caldera, but i highly doubt i'll ever find the answer to that question.
also i would like see if hernan's daughter catalina was once married to rodrigo pinedo.
I also want to thank you very much Katy for helping me out. I remember you stating in the past about "archivos de indias"
I want to mention that when I recently had gone in person to the LDS center to look at microfilm on tierras/escrituras during the late 1600's and early 1700's. There is a person that that came over to chat with me about geneology and she knew so much about the "pasajero de indias" and was on the computer opening all these websites to show me ways to locate people that traveled to the Americas.
I wonder if she can help in finding what your looking for.
I ran across one "relacion de meritos y servicios de Fernando De Vera, Licenciado en canones doctor en Teologia, vicario y juez de testamentos de Jerez de la Frontera, juez eclesiastico de las escuelas de Salamanca" year 1641.
Here is the reference no. to look up: INDIFERENTE,112,N.6
Here are a couple of more people from Jerez De La Frontera mentioned in year 1604:
Madera, Katy, "Jerez de la Frontera" is in Spain, the Mexican one is just called "Jerez" (now with "de García Salinas), called like that after the former.
If you want to find the link? Try googling: "padrones zacatecas 1648"
then when the list comes up? you will see the one that says "actores educativos de la region minera zacatecas" with a pdf extension.
click on that and a pdf file will download on your computer which you then open to look at. It is very long but interesting information. let me know if you found it.
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 12:05:38 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction
>
> If you want to find the link? Try googling: "padrones zacatecas 1648" then
> when the list comes up? you will see the one that says "actores educativos de
> la region minera zacatecas" with a pdf extension. click on that and a pdf
> file will download on your computer which you then open to look at. It is
> very long but interesting information.
>
I had trouble trying to copy the link. When I click on the link it downloads the PDF file to my computer. If I right click on the link, "copy link address" and when I tried to paste it here it is too long. It is called, "Actores educativos en la region minera de zacatecas 1754 - 1821" It is a lengthy pdf file and it has lots of information on Zacatecas prior to 1754. It has several pages on the beginnings of Jerez, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Go to google and type:
actores educativos en la region minera de zacatecas 1754 - 1821
You will see it with a "PDF" file and the link begins with upn.mx/../libros-version
Click on it. Let me know if you were able to see it.
Thank you Armando! What was a barbero? So the cunado name "Maestro Alonso" was a barbero and cirujano? While Antonio Madera was administrador de ospital? Now I have to find out the names of his children. Because their has to be a guy to inherit and continue on the surname "Madera"
Because I need to make the connection of that Antonio Madera of 1573 with my 7th generation Great Grandfather Antonio Madera (1660 - 1709) who was at Minillas, Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico who may be the grandson of the Antonio Madera that cross over to Nuevo Espana on the Pasajero De Indias.
Armando, thank you for the link, thats interesting indeed, also I am guessing that by Maestre he could had work for the military.
Madera, I am sorry for not translating, is English your native language? (mine is spanish, with my bad english is rather obvious) It goes something like this:
Antonio Madera neighbor from Sevilla says, In Nueva España there is and lives Maestre Alonso his Bthr in law, who is a Barber and Surgeon, a men without kids since his daughter became a Nun, and he (Alonso) is an administrator of the Ospital Real of Mexico city, and because he doesn't' have kids we(Madera's family and Alonso) have the closest "inheritance relation", the wife of the mentioned Antonio Madera who is his (Alonso) sister has been summoned (in Mexico) to be inherited as well as her kids, he (Alonso) also send them money for the trip according to the presented information, since they (Madera's family) are poor and have much necessities, thus they need this and also to live there (Mexico) in the company of the aforementioned Brother in Law, whom beg to your Highness for a license since they would receive the most out of it.
If I have time I would look for other information on the document that seems interesting, in this case since Antonio M. was already married and the main person in question is his wife, there is no initial description of them, unlike sigles who traveled in those days, but it may be something with in the docs, I havent seen them all.
Also the name Madera brings quite a few hits on the pares website, it may be the case that more than one came to America. By the way is Francisco I. Madero related to your ancestors, that would be interesting.
Very interesting in what you tell me. I have for sure my ancestry traced back to 1660 going back to my 7th generation great grandparents "Antonio Madera (1660 - 1709) and Maria De La Candelaria Angon (1655 - 1735). But they lived at Minillas, Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico. Two generations later their grandson Blas Madera had two sons name Francisco Madera and Lazaro Madera who then show up at Huejuquilla El Alto during the early 1700's. And that is where we have been since.
I don't know who the parents are of Antonio Madera of Minillas, Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico.
Oh wait? It was the Maestro Alonso that you say didn't have kids and for that reason had Antonio Madera and his wife travel to Mexico for the inheritance since Alonso is the brother of the wife of Antonio.
But then there is the posibility that Antonio and his wife had kids that traveled along too.
Madera, the fact your oldest ancestor found shares the same name as the one in the records adds to the possibilities, no doubt, kids and grand kids usually have their folks names, take in account though, that the name Madera/Madero was not uncommon, and there are more records of people with this name coming to then Nueva España, those in the record went straight to Mexico city, you should check on the church records there.
And yes, that page states that Alonso did not have but a daughter who became a Nun and thus (I guessing) deprived of possessions. I does seems like they, Madera and his wife had kids, next time I give it a look to the rest of the record, this if not you or someone else have figured out already.
And I am very sad that the original records of your town ended up in the University of Austin, Texas which does not belong there.
My female partner has an older sister from ciudad zacatecas, Mexico who is a historian of Zacatecas with a degree and she wrote a book that is on publication, and I have a copy. She told me that she used to work in the library of archives in downtown Guadalupe, Zacatecas, Mexico, that is open to the public, that some people would go to the library and rip out pages from the original books and take them.
I thank you so much on you with all the information your giving me and your interpretation of the document I had asked for help on as my eyes are wide open and also relaying to my cousin who is eager to know. She is on my facebook and she currently lives in Guadalajara where she has worked for he Government. She is from our village and we share the same Great Great Grandfather Patricio Madera where she told me tales about him that she heard from her relatives. She had told me that her uncles had tales that Patricio Madera fue "firmante de adhesion al Federalismo en 1824."
I would definetly appreciate it if you can further decipher that document for me to see if Antonio Madera and Isabela Lopez that moved to Mexico City in 1573 had kids. Becuase since it is very hard to find records of Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico that go beyond my 7th generation great grandfather Antonio Madera (1660 - 1709).
You are correct that I should look at the records of Mexico City for the Antonio Madera and Isabela Lopez that moved there in 1573. I would probably search for defunto records in Mexico City which might give more information as to any kids they may have had. Which then I can follow those kids or grandkids to see if any of them had gone to Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico.
Also you mentioned Francisco I, Madero. That would be neat if I am related to him. From what I know about him, his family is from Chihuahua, Mexico and are wealthy business owners. I think he may be related to the winery of "Casa Madero" in Coahuila, Mexico. From their website it says that winery was formed when a group of Friars had departed from Zacatecas in the late 1500's heading up north where they arrived to Valle De Parras, Coahuila, Mexico where they established wineries. I wonder how they got the name "Madero"
I also want to check into your town where you mentioned about an original document by the spanish of their first description of your town.
Madera, its really not that much, I enjoy reading all documents and in turn "helps" me for when I go back to my genealogy, is good to focus on something totally unrelated sometimes to go back "afresh", I am glad I can help a little, and like I said, its a retro-feeding process.
You are lucky that your last name is in fact in "Castellano", that is, not foreign to the language, thus it almost never changed nor it was misspelled often, but I would suggest to keep an eye on the "Madero" variation. I would think that they are in fact the same name.
Even with all the loses, we are lucky that Mexico and Spain have so many records still, many other countries are not that reach in archives, we think it as a bummer when we can't pass the 1600's, but in reality much more people from other places can't even go beyond a couple of generations.
Jesus Amaya Topete was from Ameca in Jalisco, which is my hometown, He published quite a bit of stuff about Mexico and Jalisco history, to my luck I've never been able to see his actual books, but citations from them in other works. He found those documents I mentioned that belongs to "Las relaciones" which were geographical, historical and political descriptions of towns ordered by the Spanish Monarchy done in many places including Spain.
Yes, I looked him up yesterday and saw that he is from Ameca. I believed Ameca is in Southern Jalisco, but then saw on map it is in the center. Is it closer to Colotlan or Guadalajara?
I was reading up on some history of Ameca and also I vaguely remember seeing old maps of Ameca that I saw in the PARS website.
Madera thank you for the link, yes, there are more than one Ameca, a least two with this exact name, one close to Huejuquilla on the north side, my town is the one close to Cocula in the 70 highway towards Mascota from Guadalajara. Really old town but my paternal line came from Nochistlán, my own "tale of two cities" :).
apparently his wife's name is isabel lopez and they have no children at the time. it keeps refering to a hermano or hermana (not sure whose) and talk about some people with the last name avellaneda.
also you seem to have more luck finding ancestors of yours on that site than me
Antonio Madera 1573 Pasjero
Here is a document year 1611 that mentions the administrator of the Hospital Amor De Dios.
Reference Nos.
MEXICO,230,N.23
MEXICO,260,N.177
CONTRATACION,483,N.1,R.2
http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest
Antonio Madera 1573 Pasjero
For those having dificulties finding the pdf here it is. (let me know if it works, I am re sharing it)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-cDWUXy4ZMmbU8wazlhQ0lIOXM/view?usp=s…
Madera, just a note, in the days of "Nueva Galicia" there were no frontiers between the states that conforms the area today, it was a macro state and a at some level independent from "La Intendencia de Mexico", thus passing between today Zac, Jal, etc. wasn't really crossing any border.
Like Cathy mentioned the relation between the Jerezes are its founders, but the Spanish is the one with the "de la frontera" name, is quite difficult to sort them out, even more if we take in account how many records mentioned "jerez" the wine/vinegar instead.
Antonio Madera 1573 Pasjero
ok i got the chance to read it but too bad it doesn't have much geneaological info. like are cristobal caldera and pedro caldera brothers or cousins?
Introduction
This is more or less what the introductory letter says (first page):
Antonio madera vzo (vecino) de la ciudad de Sivilla (sevilla) dize que en la Nueva
España esta y reside maestre Alo. (Alonso) su cuñado el cual es ?? (barbero?) y cirujano hombre fin? y sin hijos porque una hija q' tenia se metio de monja, y es administrador del ospital real de la ciudad de mexico y por no tener hijos como dicho es nuestro heredero mas cercano q' a la mujer del dicho Antonio madera q' es su hermana los a ymbiado (embiado) alla(allá) mas para el dar su hacienda y as sus hijos y a si mismo los a ymbiado dinero para hacer el viaje como pido? parece Por la ynformacion que presenta y por que ellos son pobres y padecen muncha necessidad y assi les ymporta su remedio y a permanecer la dha' (dicha) Nueva España en compañia del dicho su cuñado y Hermano suplica a V. alza. (vuestra alteza) les mande dar licenza. (licencia) para alla q' enello recibira mucho?
I put question marks on words that don't convince me, is practically the typical petition for a licence to go to America, the next pages may contain more information but usually is just the witnesses declarations. If this is one of your ancestors you should try this document as your spring project :)
Introduction
Thank you Katy and RJC. Does it say anything about his age or how he looks like?
I have read about other pasjaeros de indias and it usually would describe the person traveling.
Introduction
it's weird how i can't find pasjaeros record for any the founders of jerez like pedro carrillo davila or hernan gonzalez de berrocal
Introduction
Katy, there are a lot of founders from throughout Nueva Galicia that we are missing the licencia de Pase a Indias.
Introduction
Katy, just like Armando mentioned there is many records missing in the historical national/state archives in Mexico and in Spain, many were sent back and forward and finally kept on different territories, many were lost, destroyed, misplaced, you name it. There are many that still archived with out been truly indexed even less shown on the Internet, there is also those that where taken from the archives and sold them to private parties like collectors, in Mexico specially after the revolution many records "disappeared", and although many were destroyed, reality is that they are on someones collections. In my hometown, its native historian the renown J. Amaya Topete found the original documents of the first spanish description of the town (when the natives where still culturally alive) in the University of Austin Texas, go figure how it end up there, a least who ever had it, pass it to an institution, we don't have that much luck with other records.
Any way, the wikipedia entry for Jerez, Zac. in spanish states that its local Historian Luis Miguel Berumen Félix, keeps himself those records concerning the people you just mention, it looks like he has some publications about it, my guess is that the only way for you to put an eye on those records is by contacting him directly. It also mention that some records are in the Guadalajara archives.
In case you haven't, there are also some indexed records of the "Audiencia de Nueva Galicia" on the Public Library of Jalisco website. You may find something there too.
http://www.bpej.udg.mx/catalogo
Introduction
ok i'll check into that. the reason why i'm looking, because i've seen a few trees mistakenly refer to hernan gonzalez as being a son of pedro carrillo davila and sancha vazquez de tapia when hernan is too old to be a possible son of theirs(feel free to ask how i came up with that conclusion). i would like figure out who are his parents actually, and to see if pedro carrillo davila and hernan gonzalez were perhaps related to each other in some other way.
it would be nice if i could also find if hernan's wife was either a full or half sister of miguel caldera, but i highly doubt i'll ever find the answer to that question.
also i would like see if hernan's daughter catalina was once married to rodrigo pinedo.
Introduction
I also want to thank you very much Katy for helping me out. I remember you stating in the past about "archivos de indias"
I want to mention that when I recently had gone in person to the LDS center to look at microfilm on tierras/escrituras during the late 1600's and early 1700's. There is a person that that came over to chat with me about geneology and she knew so much about the "pasajero de indias" and was on the computer opening all these websites to show me ways to locate people that traveled to the Americas.
I wonder if she can help in finding what your looking for.
Introduction
Katy? I am looking at the PARS website and did a search on "testamentos" and filtered to "archivos de indias"
http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest
I ran across one "relacion de meritos y servicios de Fernando De Vera, Licenciado en canones doctor en Teologia, vicario y juez de testamentos de Jerez de la Frontera, juez eclesiastico de las escuelas de Salamanca" year 1641.
Here is the reference no. to look up: INDIFERENTE,112,N.6
Here are a couple of more people from Jerez De La Frontera mentioned in year 1604:
http://oi58.tinypic.com/b5s0mh.jpg
Reference no. CONTRATACION,272,N.1,R.1
Introduction
too bad the image link doesn't mention any names i'm familiar with
Introduction
Katy, I am looking at a length PDF file and found this:
http://oi61.tinypic.com/iodyxk.jpg
"Primeras Propiedades En La Villa De Jerez De La Frontera 1571 - 1620. It is on page 202 of the PDF file I am looking at.
Introduction
Madera, Katy, "Jerez de la Frontera" is in Spain, the Mexican one is just called "Jerez" (now with "de García Salinas), called like that after the former.
Introduction
yeah i know, it's just that some of the earlier settlers of jerez in mexico came from jerez de la frontera in Spain.
Introduction
On page 199 of the PDF file it talks about "Jerez De La Frontera" the one in Zacatecas:
http://oi61.tinypic.com/6gehjt.jpg
"A solo 10 leguas al occidente de Zacatecas, se halla Jerez De La Frontera"
Introduction
also madera, can you give me a link to that pdf file on jerez de la frontera
Introduction
I found it in google and the name of the PDF file is "actores educativos de la region minera zacatecas" The link has a PDF extension.
Jerez De La Frontera isn't that also Jerez, Zacatecas, Mexico because Jerez is near the border of two states Jalisco and Zacatecas "La Frontera?"
Introduction
If you want to find the link? Try googling: "padrones zacatecas 1648"
then when the list comes up? you will see the one that says "actores educativos de la region minera zacatecas" with a pdf extension.
click on that and a pdf file will download on your computer which you then open to look at. It is very long but interesting information. let me know if you found it.
Introduction
Why don't you just give us the link?
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: zacatecano020@hotmail.com
> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 12:05:38 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction
>
> If you want to find the link? Try googling: "padrones zacatecas 1648" then
> when the list comes up? you will see the one that says "actores educativos de
> la region minera zacatecas" with a pdf extension. click on that and a pdf
> file will download on your computer which you then open to look at. It is
> very long but interesting information.
>
Introduction
I had trouble trying to copy the link. When I click on the link it downloads the PDF file to my computer. If I right click on the link, "copy link address" and when I tried to paste it here it is too long. It is called, "Actores educativos en la region minera de zacatecas 1754 - 1821" It is a lengthy pdf file and it has lots of information on Zacatecas prior to 1754. It has several pages on the beginnings of Jerez, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Go to google and type:
actores educativos en la region minera de zacatecas 1754 - 1821
You will see it with a "PDF" file and the link begins with upn.mx/../libros-version
Click on it. Let me know if you were able to see it.
Introduction
I am curious about the admnistrador de ospital real de ciudad de Mexico.
Is it this one:
http://www.sinembargo.mx/14-02-2015/1246141
Introduction
RJQ, it does say barbero. In those days it was common for there to be were people that were both barberos and cirujanos. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbero#Edad_Media
Introduction
Thank you Armando! What was a barbero? So the cunado name "Maestro Alonso" was a barbero and cirujano? While Antonio Madera was administrador de ospital? Now I have to find out the names of his children. Because their has to be a guy to inherit and continue on the surname "Madera"
Because I need to make the connection of that Antonio Madera of 1573 with my 7th generation Great Grandfather Antonio Madera (1660 - 1709) who was at Minillas, Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico who may be the grandson of the Antonio Madera that cross over to Nuevo Espana on the Pasajero De Indias.
On the very last page, there is a title, "Doctor"
http://oi59.tinypic.com/r7m29z.jpg
Introduction
Armando, thank you for the link, thats interesting indeed, also I am guessing that by Maestre he could had work for the military.
Madera, I am sorry for not translating, is English your native language? (mine is spanish, with my bad english is rather obvious) It goes something like this:
Antonio Madera neighbor from Sevilla says, In Nueva España there is and lives Maestre Alonso his Bthr in law, who is a Barber and Surgeon, a men without kids since his daughter became a Nun, and he (Alonso) is an administrator of the Ospital Real of Mexico city, and because he doesn't' have kids we(Madera's family and Alonso) have the closest "inheritance relation", the wife of the mentioned Antonio Madera who is his (Alonso) sister has been summoned (in Mexico) to be inherited as well as her kids, he (Alonso) also send them money for the trip according to the presented information, since they (Madera's family) are poor and have much necessities, thus they need this and also to live there (Mexico) in the company of the aforementioned Brother in Law, whom beg to your Highness for a license since they would receive the most out of it.
If I have time I would look for other information on the document that seems interesting, in this case since Antonio M. was already married and the main person in question is his wife, there is no initial description of them, unlike sigles who traveled in those days, but it may be something with in the docs, I havent seen them all.
Also the name Madera brings quite a few hits on the pares website, it may be the case that more than one came to America. By the way is Francisco I. Madero related to your ancestors, that would be interesting.
Introduction
Thank you RJQ,
Very interesting in what you tell me. I have for sure my ancestry traced back to 1660 going back to my 7th generation great grandparents "Antonio Madera (1660 - 1709) and Maria De La Candelaria Angon (1655 - 1735). But they lived at Minillas, Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico. Two generations later their grandson Blas Madera had two sons name Francisco Madera and Lazaro Madera who then show up at Huejuquilla El Alto during the early 1700's. And that is where we have been since.
I don't know who the parents are of Antonio Madera of Minillas, Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico.
Oh wait? It was the Maestro Alonso that you say didn't have kids and for that reason had Antonio Madera and his wife travel to Mexico for the inheritance since Alonso is the brother of the wife of Antonio.
But then there is the posibility that Antonio and his wife had kids that traveled along too.
Introduction
Madera, the fact your oldest ancestor found shares the same name as the one in the records adds to the possibilities, no doubt, kids and grand kids usually have their folks names, take in account though, that the name Madera/Madero was not uncommon, and there are more records of people with this name coming to then Nueva España, those in the record went straight to Mexico city, you should check on the church records there.
And yes, that page states that Alonso did not have but a daughter who became a Nun and thus (I guessing) deprived of possessions. I does seems like they, Madera and his wife had kids, next time I give it a look to the rest of the record, this if not you or someone else have figured out already.
Introduction
Thank you RJQ,
And I am very sad that the original records of your town ended up in the University of Austin, Texas which does not belong there.
My female partner has an older sister from ciudad zacatecas, Mexico who is a historian of Zacatecas with a degree and she wrote a book that is on publication, and I have a copy. She told me that she used to work in the library of archives in downtown Guadalupe, Zacatecas, Mexico, that is open to the public, that some people would go to the library and rip out pages from the original books and take them.
I thank you so much on you with all the information your giving me and your interpretation of the document I had asked for help on as my eyes are wide open and also relaying to my cousin who is eager to know. She is on my facebook and she currently lives in Guadalajara where she has worked for he Government. She is from our village and we share the same Great Great Grandfather Patricio Madera where she told me tales about him that she heard from her relatives. She had told me that her uncles had tales that Patricio Madera fue "firmante de adhesion al Federalismo en 1824."
I would definetly appreciate it if you can further decipher that document for me to see if Antonio Madera and Isabela Lopez that moved to Mexico City in 1573 had kids. Becuase since it is very hard to find records of Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico that go beyond my 7th generation great grandfather Antonio Madera (1660 - 1709).
You are correct that I should look at the records of Mexico City for the Antonio Madera and Isabela Lopez that moved there in 1573. I would probably search for defunto records in Mexico City which might give more information as to any kids they may have had. Which then I can follow those kids or grandkids to see if any of them had gone to Mezquitic, Jalisco, Mexico.
Also you mentioned Francisco I, Madero. That would be neat if I am related to him. From what I know about him, his family is from Chihuahua, Mexico and are wealthy business owners. I think he may be related to the winery of "Casa Madero" in Coahuila, Mexico. From their website it says that winery was formed when a group of Friars had departed from Zacatecas in the late 1500's heading up north where they arrived to Valle De Parras, Coahuila, Mexico where they established wineries. I wonder how they got the name "Madero"
I also want to check into your town where you mentioned about an original document by the spanish of their first description of your town.
Introduction
Madera, its really not that much, I enjoy reading all documents and in turn "helps" me for when I go back to my genealogy, is good to focus on something totally unrelated sometimes to go back "afresh", I am glad I can help a little, and like I said, its a retro-feeding process.
You are lucky that your last name is in fact in "Castellano", that is, not foreign to the language, thus it almost never changed nor it was misspelled often, but I would suggest to keep an eye on the "Madero" variation. I would think that they are in fact the same name.
Even with all the loses, we are lucky that Mexico and Spain have so many records still, many other countries are not that reach in archives, we think it as a bummer when we can't pass the 1600's, but in reality much more people from other places can't even go beyond a couple of generations.
Jesus Amaya Topete was from Ameca in Jalisco, which is my hometown, He published quite a bit of stuff about Mexico and Jalisco history, to my luck I've never been able to see his actual books, but citations from them in other works. He found those documents I mentioned that belongs to "Las relaciones" which were geographical, historical and political descriptions of towns ordered by the Spanish Monarchy done in many places including Spain.
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Yes, I looked him up yesterday and saw that he is from Ameca. I believed Ameca is in Southern Jalisco, but then saw on map it is in the center. Is it closer to Colotlan or Guadalajara?
I was reading up on some history of Ameca and also I vaguely remember seeing old maps of Ameca that I saw in the PARS website.
Have you looked up Ameca in this website:
http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest
There are some information on Ameca there. Search for it then when the list comes up, filter on the left side by selecting, archivo de indias.
I see an old map of ameca 1709. And other documents prior to that.
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Madera thank you for the link, yes, there are more than one Ameca, a least two with this exact name, one close to Huejuquilla on the north side, my town is the one close to Cocula in the 70 highway towards Mascota from Guadalajara. Really old town but my paternal line came from Nochistlán, my own "tale of two cities" :).
Antonio Madera 1573 Pasjero
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=3&&t…
apparently his wife's name is isabel lopez and they have no children at the time. it keeps refering to a hermano or hermana (not sure whose) and talk about some people with the last name avellaneda.
also you seem to have more luck finding ancestors of yours on that site than me