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By RJQ |

Hi fellow researchers, I've been inactive in genealogy for quite a bit, true it is that I'm almost "retiring" from it, a least to some extent, as I kind of answered the two / three questions I had when I started 15 years ago. Never the less, there are a couple of things that still gives me an "itch", been the main one the unknown (to me) identity of Miguel Rodríguez de Santa Ana, who is my oldest ancestor on a direct father to father line. I only know about some of his kids (all from familysearch.org database).

I wonder if someone has found who he was, specially since he married a 'de Frías' which I know is been extensively researched in this forums. This following part in a post by Mr. Steven Hernandez mentions similar names:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19163?page=1

...x. Sebastiana Pérez de Frías, born ca. 1666 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México; died Unknown; married (1) Nicolás Rodríguez de Santana ca. 1685 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México; born ca. 1662 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México; died Unknown; married (2) Francisco de Legaspi 10 December 1710 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México; born ca. 1660 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México; died 02 February 1733 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México.

More About Nicolás Rodríguez de Santana and Sebastiana Pérez de Frías:
Marriage: ca. 1685, Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México....

I'm not sure if anything else is known about the groom. These Rgz de Santa Ana are quite tricky due to the constant skipping of their last part of their surname, I know they seems to be very close and related to the Lozano and Quiralte/Quirarte, all of this in Nochistlán and around, but very little I had come across with it.

I'm leaving the topic more as a note to my self than a full question, leaving this door open to any of your comments that in a future may take me in any specific direction. I'm planning on writing down (finally) all I found about my last name and ancestors, and genealogy in general in a little booklet, I have many brick walls here and there, but hopefully will serve as a source to others behind me.

Thank you for any comment or clue you may want to share.

R. J. Quiralta

Great find, Alex. Dolores, what this is, is an “informacion matrimonial,” which is a marriage investigation, this one being for an Indian couple named Juan Martin and Juana de la Cruz. Matheo Perez de Frias was one of the 3 witnesses they presented to verify that they were eligible to marry. He gave his testimony on 20 Oct 1672, in Nochistlan, and he’s introduced as “Español” (of the Spanish caste), “dueño de estancia” (he owned a hacienda), he was a resident of said jurisdiction, and he was married. He goes on to say that he knew the couple and that they were both eligible to marry; at the end of his testimony, he gives his age as 54 years, and then it says he didn’t sign his name, because he didn’t know how to.

Saludos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Dolores asked:

“Do you have any theories on why or how Matheo could be a Perez de Frias from the family noted but not documented anywhere?”

The answer is no, other than the lack of records from that era, and the lack of access to the existing records. According to his burial record, Matheo did leave a will - in which he likely names his parents. But we just don’t have access to that record, and I wouldn’t know where to look for it.

I was looking through the Nochistlan confirmations for the year 1666 (31 dec?), and 2 Jan 1667; on those 2 days, eight children of Matheo Perez de Frias & Tomasa de la Cruz were confirmed: Sebastian, Francisco, Geronimo, Joseph, Juan, Matheo, Andres and Sebastiana. Sebastiana is the only one I previously had a record for. They baptized another Juan on 26 Jul 1674, so this earlier one might have died. In total, I have them with 16 children! Prolific! Chalk it up to no TV. :D

On the 1666 date, Matheo Perez was padrino for the confirmations of:
Hernando hijo de Diego Perez y Catalina de Islas
Pedro hijo de Lorenço Mexia y Josepha de Paz difunta
Geronimo hijo de Martin Cortez y Francisca Maria
Juan Martin hijo de Ygnacio Balthasar y Maria Catalina
Juan hijo de Juan Martin y Maria

On 2 Jan 1667, he was padrino of:
Jů de Renteria hijo de Diego Delgadillo y Petrona de Isla
On that same day, Tomasa de la Cruz was madrina for:
Ysabel hija de Jů de Torres y Josepha de la Cruz (her sister)

At least we know that Matheo Perez de Frias and contact with Diego Perez de Frias, but this doesn’t establish that they were brothers.

This is curious: here’s what it says on the 10 Dec 1679 baptism record for Theresa, daughter of Matheo Perez and Theresa de la Cruz:

“puse olios y chrisma a Theressa haviendo echado el agua de bautismo en necesidad el Pᵉ Fʳ Franº Lopez del orden de La Merced; hija lixᵐª de Matheo Perez de friaz y de Thomassa de la Cruz M Maria Baez abuela del Baptissad- vezⁿª desta feligª.”

Of interest is the madrina - Maria Baez. She is identified as “abuela del Baptissad-.” Unfortunately, the last letter of the word “Baptissad-“ is in superscript, and we don’t know if it’s an “a” or an”o.” “Baptisado/a” is the past participle “baptized,” and used as an adjective, the same as in English, so it should be talking about the person baptized - Theresa. But the preposition/article used is “del,” implying that the word is masculine, so the missing letter would be an “o.” If so, could it mean the one who baptized the child - Padre Frai Francisco? But the Spanish word for “baptizer” is “bautista”!
I’m thinking that Maria Baez is the grandmother of the “baptized,” because if she were grandmother of the “baptizer,” normal practice would say “abuela del dho Pᵉ Fʳ Franº Lopez.” Anyone?
And if she was the grandmother of Theresa, we know that her maternal grandmother was Maria de Gabay y Navarro, so Maria Baez would have to be her paternal grandmother.

Of course, it is possible that this is all just a notary’s error.

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Hi Mercelina,

Muy interesante la información de los orígenes del apellido, gracias por compartir.

Me está que en éste caso, el origen toponímico es posiblemente el mas correcto cuando se añade al final de otro apellido (previo al uso del apellido materno como regla) por ejemplo Rdz de Santa Ana, López de Santa Ana, Gómez de Sta. Ana, etc.

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R.A.Ricci

7 years 1 month ago

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Dear R.J
In my records,he was only known as Miguel Rodriguez de Santa Ana and not Nicolas. I mistakenly wrote Nicolas when I wrote the post. I guess I also had on my mind Marcelina's comment regarding having more information on Nicolas Munguia/Murguia who has nothing to do with Miguel Rodriguez de Santa Ana.

Sorry,
Rick A. Ricci

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Marcelina Macias

7 years 1 month ago

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Hola R.J.

Hay ciertos datos en Ancestry, aunque no señalan las fuentes, por lo que deben tomarse con cautela:
Hernando Pérez de Frías casó con Andrea de Rodas y fueron padres de:

Luis Pérez de Frías que se casó con Melchora de los Carbajal, fueron padres de:

1. Hernando Pérez de Frías que casó Gertrudis de Mercado.

2. María Pérez de Frías (1622-1693) casó con Diego Moscoso Sandoval.

3. Matheo (fallecido en 1693) casó con Tomasa de la Cruz, que sigue.

Matheo y Tomassa fueron padres de:

1. Antonio.
2. Juan.
3. Rosa María.
4. Úrsula que casó con Juan Yáñez del Monte.
5. Sebastiana Pérez de Frías aka Pérez de la Cruz nacida en 1667 que casó en primeras nupcias con Nicolás Rodríguez de Santa Ana y en segundas nupcias con Francisco de Legaspi.
6. Jacinto.
7. Theresa.
8. Cristóbal, nacido en Teocaltiche en 1654 casó en primeras nupcias con Theresa Durán y en segundas nupcias con Francisca de Chávez.

Ojalá que alguno de los compañeros que conoce los registros de Teocaltiche te pueda ayudar con información más precisa de éstos ancestros.

Marcelina

Dear RJ, and Marcelina,

Hernando (Fernando) de Perez de Frias tambien fue conocido como Hernando Frias Delgadillo . Uno de sus hijos uso el apellido Mendoza.

1). Hernando Perez de Frias (Hernando Frias Delgadillo) and Andrea de Rodas had at least three children.

1.1). Melchora de Los Reyes ( aka Melchora Frias Delgadillo) married to Gabriel Lomelin y Hurtado de Mendoza (son of Domingo Lomelin and Juana Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza) [Domingo is the son of Carlo Lomellini and Maria Benavides] and {Juana is the daughter of Manuel Gomez and Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza. [this particular family brings together much of my research into the Lomellini, Ramirez Arellano, Hernandez Arellano, and Hurtado De Mendoza family trees]

1.2). Jose Hurtado de Mendoza married to Juana Yañez in Mexticacan. (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49Y-LN?i=65&cc=1804458)

1.3) Luis Perez de Frias y Rodas (Luis Perez de Frias) married Melchora Carbajal. They had at least three children. I am only going to name Matheo here as he is the father of Sebastiana Perez de Frias

1.3.1) Matheo (Mateo) Perez de Frias is married to Thomasa De la Cruz [daughter of Jose de la Cruz and Maria Gabay (aka Maria Navarro)] {Maria Gabay is the daughter of Cristobal Navarro and an unknown woman) (For more information on the ancestry of Cistobal Navarro Gabay see my posts on Lope Ruiz de Esparza)

And as Marcelina posted:

1.3.1.5) Sebastiana Pérez de Frías aka Pérez de la Cruz nacida en 1667 que casó en primeras nupcias con Nicolás Rodríguez de Santa Ana y en segundas nupcias con Francisco de Legaspi.

P.S. For more information on the Carlo Lomellini, Diego Gomez, Isabsbl Hurtado de Mendoza, Toribio Hernandez Arellano, Ramirez Arellano and Navarro ancestries you can check my previous posts to go back many more generations.

Rick A. Ricci

Source: Mygenes2000 by R.A.Ricci

Hola R.J y Richard:

Yo realmente no conozco a la familia Pérez de Frías así que resulta muy valioso el aporte de Richard. Por cierto tomé una fotografía del cuadro de Doña María Lomelí la esposa de Diego Barrientos de Ribera pero no se cómo subirla a los recursos de ésta página. ¿Les gustaría conocer el retrato de Doña María?

Yo desciendo de Cristóbal de Santa Ana Rodríguez, ésta familia vivía en Querétaro, Don Simón de Santa Ana y Doña María Rodríguez fueron padres de Cristóbal, hijo póstumo. La familia pasó a Victoria, Guanajuato en donde se dedicaron a la minería de plata. Uno de los hijos se casó con una mujer de la familia Sandi y pasaron entonces a Salvatierra, Guanajuato. Sin embargo muchas familias de Victoria Guanajuato estaban relacionadas con familias de Zacatecas y de Victoria, Durango. Es posible que los Rodríguez de Santa Ana puedan estar relacionados con los Santa Ana Rodríguez, pero todavía no encuentro un lazo directo únicamente que son contemporáneos y que se ubicaban en zonas mineras.

Richard: procura visitar mi última aportación sobre la ascendencia de Nicolás de Murguía.

Saludos

Marcelina

The post didn't seem right so I checked some of the info and found an error. There may be more errors in that post that Marcelina found on ancestry.com.

The third child of Luis Pérez de Frias and Melchora Carbajal was not named Hernando Perez de Frias. The third child was named Luis Delgadillo. Hernando (Hernan) Perez de Frias was the son of Juan Joseph Perez de Frias and Catalina (Catarina) Lopez de Castro.

Luis Pérez de Frías que se casó con Melchora de los Carbajal, fueron padres de:

Luis Delgadillo que se caso con Josepha de Islas, hija de Bernardino de Islas y Mariana Moscoso Sandoval.

Luis Delgadillo y Josepha tienen por lo menos cinco hijos, todos con el apellido Delgadillo.

1) Bernardino

2) Elvira

3) Mariana casada con Jose Gutierrez de Hermosillo. Una nieta, Gertrudis Mercado se casa con Hernando de Perez de Frias hijo de Juan Joseph Perez de Frias and Catalina (Catarina) Lopez de Castro

4) Catalina

5) Juan

Gertrudis Mercado es hija de Juan Ignacio Mercado y Josepha Gutierrez de Hermosillo.

Josepha se hija de Jose Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Mariana Delgadillo.

Mariana Delgadillo se hija de Luis Delgadillo y Mariana Moscoso Sandoval

Gracias Marcelina por la ascendencia de Nicolas Murguia/Munguia

Ricardo A. Ricci

I have a follow-up question from this old thread

Re:
***********************************************************************************

Luis Pérez de Frías que se casó con Melchora de los Carbajal, fueron padres de:

1. Matheo (fallecido en 1693) casó con Tomasa de la Cruz, que sigue.

**********************************************************************************

My family descends from Matheo - can you provide a source (marriage cert, birth cert location or book that notes this)? I am trying to prove this but the ancestry records online are not visible although they corroborate the lineage.

Thank you!

Dolores

Thank you - have added this date to my records.

My maternal grandfather's mother was Maria S. Rodriguez Yanez (Zacatecas 1893) and this is her lineage.

My 3rd GGF on her side is Natalio Yanez ((1810-1885) and his father was Juan Yanez Degaldillo (circa 1767). His father was Joseph Yanez Perez (circa 1686). Joseph's father was Juan Yanez (del Monte) (circa 1650) and his mom was Thomasa Úrsula Pérez de Frías( 1650).I believe Thomasa's parents were: Mateo Perez de Frias (1626?) and Thomasa de la Cruz (de Gabay)1629.

Is there a birth cert or other document showing Mateo's lineage to his parents noted in this thread? Luis Delgadillo Perez de Frias and Melchora De Los Reyes Rodriguez Carbajal? I also have different birth years for Mateo so I am trying to document this and his direct ancestors.

Thank you for your help!

I'm confused! Is there more than one Luis Perez de Frias, one who is the son of Hernando Perez de Vrias and Andres de Rodas and another who is the son of Diego de Frias and Ysabel de Calderon? If so, then there would be two different Melchora Carvajals. I'd appreciate elucidation porque ando bien confundido!

Hi Marcelina, Rick:

Thank you for the tips! I had a chance to check Seabastiana's marriage with Francisco de Legaspi, and indeed, she was the widow of Miguel Rdz. de Santa Ana. A least this is a fact, that the couple listed among the Frías research is the sameone I'm talking about, the only thing to note is that the name I've seen is only Miguel and not Nicolas, not sure where that name came from and if it was another of his given names.

As there is no "información matrimonial" from the 1707's-1730's I think there is no much that could be saved from Miguel Rdz. de Santa Ana. Knowing his parents would it be a quite a clue. I just hope one day to come across some of his kids/grandkids that may include more information of him, but I'm not keeping my hopes high.

Marcelina:

Los Rdz. de Santa Ana que estoy buscando, poseen éste apellido compuesto desde tiempo muy atrás, es decir que no fue la unión de matrimonio el que puso las partes "de Santa Ana" y "Rodríguez" en uno solo como sucede con tus ancestros, existen también muchos otros apellidos que adoptaron el "de Santa Ana", pero nunca he encontrado cual fue la razón, leí alguna vez un comentario haciendo mención que ésto proviene de las ordenes militar/religiosas Españolas, aun que en lo personal nunca he visto un documento que lo sustente.

Dado que ademas existen familias donde sí se unieron estos dos apellidos correspondientemente, la búsqueda me ha sido extremadamente difícil, especialmente cuando en muchas ocasiones, en los registros se les omitía parte de el apellido, además de el hecho que Rdz. es uno de los apellidos mas comunes.

Notes of what I know:

-I found that in Nombre de Dios, Durango, there was a person whose name was Cristóbal Rodríguez de Santa Ana, who happen to be "concuño" of captain Don Agustín Quiralte (married the sister of Agustín's wife), to me this is the first link between these two families that can latter be observed in Nochistlán.

-Cristóbal Rdz. de St. Ana was the godparent of the first kid of captain Don Joseph Francisco Quiralte, who establish the Quiralte/Quirarte families in Nochistlán.

I'm thinking that Miguel (Sebastiana's husband) and Cristóbal were related, due to the political links between the cities and that of the families that relate to both.

R.J. Quiralta

Hola R. J. y Richard:

El apellido Santa Ana tiene varios orígenes:

1) En Galicia.
2) Origen moro, de los conversos después de la conquista de Granada, que pertenecían a la parroquia de Santa Ana, en Granada.
3) Hay un pueblo de Santa Ana cerca de Cáceres, Extremadura.

Al parecer mi familia proviene de Medina del Pomar, en las Montañas de Burgos.

Serí interesante intentar a través del Portal Pares encontrar algún registro ya sea como Santa Ana o como Santana.

Richard:

Encontré algo más sobre los Murguía lo subiré en breve.

Saludos
Marcelina

Don José es uno di mis abuelos nacido en 1770 en Mexticacan. Pero hasta ahora no he podido encontrar a ninguno de sus antecedentes. Sólo tengo el nombre de su esposa, la Ana María Torres, nacida a eso de 1770 también en Mexticacan. Pero tampoco sé de sus antecedentes.
Espero que ó Vd. ó unos de los compañeros en esta lista tengan más información que me puede ayudar en hacer las conexiones que me faltan con esta rama de la familia. Gracias.

I just did further research and found that Jose del Carmen Rodrigues de Frias was the son of Manuel Rodrigues de Frias and of Maria Guadalupe Frias. Jose del Carmen also had siblings, all from Mexticacan:

Jose Mariano, married 29 Feb 1808 to Maria Anastacia Cordero
Maria Polonia, married 18 Oct 1809 to Jose Francisco Ximenes
Maria Rosalia, married 5 Aug 1811 to Jose Espiridion Ximenes

Hoping this leads to some more connections!

Hello,

Is this Maria Lopes the same as 3. Rosa Maria from earlier post?

Location: nochistlan, Zacatecas.
Marriage date: July 16, 1691.
Marriages 1691 to 1736.
Image: 9, left side.

If I'm reading it right, it says Maria Lopes. Espanola, legitimate daughter of Matheo Perez de Frias, and of Thomasa de la Cruz.

"Mateo y Tomassa fueron padres de:

1. Antonio.
2. Juan.
3. Rosa María.
4. Úrsula que casó con Juan Yáñez del Monte.
5. Sebastiana Pérez de Frías aka Pérez de la Cruz nacida en 1667 que casó en primeras nupcias con Nicolás Rodríguez de Santa Ana y en segundas nupcias con Francisco de Legaspi.
6. Jacinto.
7. Theresa.
8. Cristóbal, nacido en Teocaltiche en 1654 casó en primeras nupcias con Theresa Durán y en segundas nupcias con Francisca de Chávez"

Thanks, Oscar.

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