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By andrea_e |

Hello fellow researchers

I'm waiting for my mtDNA results and while I wait I'm trying to see if I can get my maternal line back a little bit further.

The earliest mother's mother's mother I can document using Family Search films is Beatriz Delgado, Spanish, born about 1595. She's the mother of Francisca de Rodas and Catalina Ponce who married in Tlaltenango. Both daughters are in my direct line, but my maternal line goes back through Catalina.

1636 - Francisca de Rodas with Rodrigo de Castro (left side entry has the parents)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BR9M-FN?i=47&wc=3PS7-7…

1648 - Catalina Ponce and Manuel de Viera
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BR1Y-P?i=101&cc=1804458

Apparently, Pedro Calderon Solano passed away and Beatriz remarried with Antonio de Castro. I've read the online Tlaltenango marriage film and found nothing else relating to them, unless I missed it due to the hard-to-read handwriting. I don't believe Beatriz and Antonio de Castro had children.

Before I knew she was my ancestor, and back when I had an Ancestry free trial, I saw several trees which had Antonio de Castro (father of Rodrigo) married to a BRIGIDA Delgado about 1624 or 1634. Her parents were said to be Luis Delgado and Ana Flores Rubin from Guadalajara. It's Ancestry, so all the info looked copied from other trees and there were no real sources that I remember. But I see in the gedcom Luis Delgado and JUANA Flroes from Guadalajara with a son Juan Delgado Flores married in the 1630s in Tlaltenango. I was wondering if the info about Brigida/Beatriz came from anyone here or if anyone knew anything about a Brigida or Beatriz or had any sources to point to about her parentage or anything else that might help.

I know there was a Beatriz Delgado married to Martin Gonzales a generation or so earlier, so this one probably fits in there somehow.

Thanks in advance for any help
~ Andrea

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superhorrible

4 years 11 months ago

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Questions and comments:
1. Does anyone have located the death record of Beatriz Delgado?
2. Also I don't understand how the "Rodas" last name fits into this line. Both daughters use that last name. Any ideas?
3. I think is important keep in mind that Beatriz Delgado was also known as Beatriz Gonzalez.
I'm very interested in knowing more about the marriage that Andrea mentioned (Martin Gonzalez and Beatriz Delgado. (see baptism 3 may 1637)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49T-29?i=55&cc=180445…

Thank you so much

sus

Hi Ruben

These two women are the daughters of the Catalina Ponce in this thread. I also descend from the younger Catalina Ponce and her husband Diego Gonzalez, and I think Beatriz even calls herself Beatriz Delgado on one of her children's baptisms, after her grandmother.

The witness in this dispensation, Nicolas de Sandoval, is the son of Juana Ponce and Francisco de Sandoval. He says the groom-to-be is his "sobrino segundo" so Beatriz (and her sister Catalina) would have to be his aunts, Juana's sisters. These two sisters must have been married in Teul because I think they're the only children of Manuel Geronimo de Viera and Catalina Ponce I haven't seen marriage records for.

- Andrea

Thank you for the information Andrea.
I also came across this baptismo record listing a "Beatriz Delgado" whose parents are A??(illegible) Delgado and Catharina Lopez. The time frame seems in the range (1585), but there is not enough evidence to make a connection. Any thoughts?

Thanks
Ruben

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939Z-RHJY-B?i=872&cc=1615259

right hand side, bottom record

Good find! I think the name of the father is Alonso? It's hard to say whether these Delgados are of any relation to the ones showing up later in Tlaltenango, but it is definitely something to investigate.

I think the father in this record is Alonso Delgado.

But I don't know if she is "our" Beatriz

thanks

sus

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andrea_e

5 years 10 months ago

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Sometimes it's like the ancestors decide they're ready for us to have more clues. All of a sudden I hopped up to check something unrelated in the early baptism film and stumbled across this:

5 Aug 1639 baptism Antonio Delgado Lopez "compadres Antonio de Castro y Beatriz GONZALEZ su mujer . . ."
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49T-24?i=67&cc=1804458

It seemed logical she was named after the Beatriz Delgado m. Martin Gonzalez, but it's good to have evidence of a connection!

Upon further poking around . . .
1636 baptism of Jacinto Lamas Rodriguez (son of Jacinto Fernandez de Lamas and Mariana Rodriguez) "compadres . . . Beatriz Delgado hermana de la parida"
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49T-XP
(There's two Beatriz Delgados - most likely related - during this time, the other one was married to Diego de Molina, so this could be either of them)

Mariano Gonzalez-Leal mentions a Pedro Calderon, native of Villa de Garcia, Trujillo, Caceres, Extremadura, and son of Francisco Solano Calderon de Villegas and Francisca Jimenez Altamirano. These 2 were parents of Hernando de Villegas (m. Ines Lopez de Nava) and Isabel de Rodas (m. Francisco de Cobarrubias). From the timeline, this Pedro Calderon might be the one who married Beatriz Delgado, or his father. Either way, your Pedro Calderon descends from this family.
Since Beatriz Delgado remarried in 1634, we know Pedro Calderon died before then. He was probably a landowner, so he would have left a testamento. I’d recommend going through the protocolos for Guadalajara, starting from that year, and going backwards.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&query=%2Ba…

Great work, Andrea, keeping an eye open for ancestors appearing as padrinos (and testigos). I’ve broken down more than one brickwall that way!

Manny Diez Hermosillo

Thank you so much for the link, Manny! I've got a death date for Pedro of 20 Nov 1630 so that narrows down my search through these films you've directed me to. I did see on various trees that Francisco Calderon Solano and Francisca Jimenez Altamirano had a Pedro, but usually with mentions that he died celibate a bit earlier. I don't know if he could have had a son at some point or if my Pedro is a nephew, but thank you for providing a source to check out, since I didn't see any.

And for anyone with Rodrigo de Castro or his descendants . . . I haven't seen the name of his mother (Antonio de Castro's first wife) mentioned anywhere. Evidently, she died a few weeks after Pedro Calderon Solano.

31 Dec 1630 Juana Ramirez, Spanish, wife of Antonio de Castro, Spanish, resident of Tlaltenango
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-YYHK-B?i=160&cc=1804458

Searching these baptism records has revealed the parents of some of the other Delgados in Tlaltenango in this time frame. I didn't see them in the gedcom so I thought I would post in case anyone needs them.

1. The parents of the Beatriz Delgado m. Diego de Molina are Pedro Albertis and Ysabel Garcia
(baptism of their son Sebastian) - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49T-L1?i=93&wc=MC789Z…
The Ysabel Albertis married to Francisco de Molina must be another daughter

2. The Magdalena Delgado m. Juan Gallardo is the daughter of Luis Felix Delgado and Juana Bautista (Saucedo? who according to the great posts in the Ancestry of Maria de Haro y Saucedo thread is a sister of the Maria de Saucedo m. Juan de Miramontes)
(baptism of daughter Josepha) - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49T-XR?i=42&cc=1804458
(confirmation of Luis and Juana's daughter xxina? Catalina? top left) - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49R-R6?i=181&wc=MC78-…

3. Magdalena has a brother Pedro Delgado m. to a Maria Garcia de Roldan
(Baptism of Josepha Rivera Solis) - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49T-PZ?i=21&cc=1804458
I seem to have misplaced the link, but Pedro and Maria appear as padrinos for a child of Xptobal/Cristobal Garcia de Roldan and Agustina de Chavez. Maria Garcia is the aunt of the child.

Hopefully that helps someone related to these other couples

And finally evidence Ponce is indeed Ponce de Leon
(baptism of Gabriela Gertrudis Sanchez Castellanos - I descend from her sister Rita and Alejandro Mayorga Carlos)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BMFJ-N?i=48&cc=1804458

~ Andrea

Searching these baptism records has revealed the parents of some of the other Delgados in Tlaltenango in this time frame. I didn't see them in the gedcom so I thought I would post in case anyone needs them.

1. The parents of the Beatriz Delgado m. Diego de Molina are Pedro Albertis and Ysabel Garcia
(baptism of their son Sebastian) - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49T-L1?i=93&wc=MC789Z…
The Ysabel Albertis married to Francisco de Molina must be another daughter

2. The Magdalena Delgado m. Juan Gallardo is the daughter of Luis Felix Delgado and Juana Bautista (Saucedo? who according to the great posts in the Ancestry of Maria de Haro y Saucedo thread is a sister of the Maria de Saucedo m. Juan de Miramontes)
(baptism of daughter Josepha) - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49T-XR?i=42&cc=1804458
(confirmation of Luis and Juana's daughter xxina? Catalina? top left) - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49R-R6?i=181&wc=MC78-…

3. Magdalena has a brother Pedro Delgado m. to a Maria Garcia de Roldan
(Baptism of Josepha Rivera Solis) - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-T49T-PZ?i=21&cc=1804458
I seem to have misplaced the link, but Pedro and Maria appear as padrinos for a child of Xptobal/Cristobal Garcia de Roldan and Agustina de Chavez. Maria Garcia is the aunt of the child.

Hopefully that helps someone related to these other couples

And finally evidence Ponce is indeed Ponce de Leon
(baptism of Gabriela Gertrudis Sanchez Castellanos - I descend from her sister Rita and Alejandro Mayorga Carlos)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BMFJ-N?i=48&cc=1804458

~ Andrea

Hello,
There's another beatriz delgado from Nochistlan married to Cristobal Lozano, son of Juan Lozano . Looks like Cristobal is illegitimate.

Here is the excerpt from Genealogia de Nochistlan By Vazquez Y Rodriguez Frias. Pg. 167

1) Juan Lozano y Perez Bermejo. El 4 de Feb. 1644 Bautizado en AGS. Joan espanol, hijo de Christobal Losa Y Mariana Pz Vermejo, siendo Testo Juan Lozano de Gardea, clerigo hijo Lit. de Christobal Lozano y Mariana Gonzalez de Gardea, vecinos de AGS. Archivo Historico de AGS, Caja 4, Folio 2, No. 21.

Juan Lozano tubo un hijo Cristobal Lozano (comm privada entre Mary Lou M. y Jaime H.) que caso con BEATRIZ DELGADO cuya hija Mariana Gertrudis Lozano caso con Isidro de Esparza, Hijo de Juan Esparza y Mariana Martin del Campo, Capitulo 47.

I think this Beatriz is likely the OTHER Beatriz you provided evidence of from Tlaltenango since this Lozano line intermarried with the families of Tlaltenango. There are definitely two- Beatriz Delgado's.

Maven

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andrea_e

6 years 1 month ago

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The happlegroup came back A2d1a, Native American. Very interesting! All the ladies I have documented on this line say they're "españolas." Unless the Native America is earlier on, closer to the original conquest.

My line is through Juana Ponce and Francisco de Sandoval in Tlaltenango, who seem to have left a lot of descendants.

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rosa9972

6 years 2 months ago

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I am in the same boat as you and Maven-- I descend from Manuel de Viera and Catalina Ponce. My dead ends are the same as yours. We just don't have the records that go back further, although there could be property or land and water records that include additional information. These records may not yet be digitized or indexed. However, for ancestors from this area at this time period, this is about where the trail ends.

Would you be willing to share Beatriz's MtDNA haplogroup when you find out? I'd be curious what hers is-- she not my direct maternal ancestor, but she is one of my ancestors.

Thanks!

Rosalinda

Actually, Andrea, I am testing a cousin of mine whose family is from Totatiche. She appears to descend in the matrilineal line from Catalina Ponce, and thus, Beatriz. In an interesting twist, before I saw this message, I had paid for an MtDNA test for this cousin. I'm wondering if we'll see a match. That would be awesome!

I'm sending you an email as I have questions about this family.

Rosalinda

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maven200

6 years 2 months ago

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Hi Andrea,
I have both Francisca AND Catalina in my direct lines and have not been ble to go further than the two docs you listed above. I recently, combed through all of tlaltenango and rest of Zacatecas looking for a connection for Manuel Veira as the surname isn’t that common. In “Familias antiguas de Tlaltenango” p. 62 States Manuel was an unmarried Spaniard , resident of the guardianship of El Teul. Also, perhaps there is a connection with Agustina veira, or its actually Vera.
I have Beatriz Delgado, not Brígida. And I’ve seen Catalina as Catalina perla, Catalina de Rodas and Catalina ponce de Rodas.
Coincidently, the last marriage record u posted was Juan de Vera married to Juana Miramontes. The padrinos are Lorenzo Miramontes m. María Gonzales, who is ma. Gonzales Delgado. Their son is Juan Miramontes m. Brígida Ortiz, my 12th grandparents.
Maven

I think the "Perla" is misread handwriting. The "Ponce" in Catalina's marriage record does look like "Perla" at first glance. I also thought of Agustina de Viera in relation to Manuel. The IGI also shows a Viera family in Pueblo about 1620, but those two instances are about all I've seen of the name.

A lot of my lines go back to the Miramontes family. I have Hernando, Juan Jr., and Catalina de Haro. I may have your younger Juan's sister if my Flores de la Torre line from Teul goes back through Pedro Flores de la Torre and Clara, but I've found no solid proof yet.

~ Andrea

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