Online Status

Por longsjourney |

Are there specific films for Zacatecas where the dispensation records that are in La Sagrada Mitra can be found? The book is very expensive and not really available as far as I can find. I would like to know if I can order the films the records are taken from from the LDS history center. I'm interested in the Jerez Zacatecas area's since so many early families intermarried. I've done the marriage information records and hey say when they are related but not who that person was 3 or 4 generations ago who was the trunk.

I have taken my Caldera line back as far as I can with the records available at the LDS but found a decendant intermarried and it connects my ancestor Joseph Antonio del Carmel Caldera abt 1735 and Manuel Caldera abt 1740 as brothers so I was hoping to find their parents in a dispensation record. I understand this record to say in the 3rd degree they were brothers, 4th degree was the trunk?

Marriage information recorded 29 April 1853 in Jerez
Santiago Saldivar from Jumolco age 51
Parents: Nicolas Zaldivar and Micaela Caldera both deceased
With: Juliana Caldera from Durazno age 20
Parents: Toribio Caldera and Matiana Carrillo both deceased
Dispensa de consanguinedad en tercero con cuatro grado
Witness: Calletano Martinez from Durazno married age 47, labrador
Witness: Juan Minchaca from Durazno married age 46, labrador
Witness: Cristobal Martinez from Durazno married age 43, labrador
Posted 29 April, 24 and 26 April 1853
source: 0439902 Jerez marriage information

Linda in Everett

Linda:

We got a bit off topic but I was rereading your message about you trying to find the marrige dispensation for the coupe Santiago Saldivar and Juliana Caldera. They were married in 1853, just three years before the new bishphoric of Zacatecas was formed so their dispensation would have been given by the bishop of Guadalajara.

While Luz Montejano stopped extracting around 1750, the dispensation records for later years are filmed. For some reason there are no films for 1853 however other than possibly:

Matrimonios 1829-1830, 1850-1860, 1896 (faltan años) FHL INTL Film
168670

or

Arturo, I do have the marriage and the marriage information records for this couple, it's the actual dispensation record I'm looking for in the hopes that it names the trunk that would take me back another generation on my branch of the Caldera family. Any idea what film that would be? I have never ordered a film for actual dispensations and didn't know they existed. I always thought the information record and dispensation record were one and the same!

Boy we do learn on this site!
thank you, Linda

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

We got a bit off topic but I was rereading your message about you trying to find the marrige dispensation for the coupe Santiago Saldivar and Juliana Caldera. They were married in 1853, just three years before the new bishphoric of Zacatecas was formed so their dispensation would have been given by the bishop of Guadalajara.

While Luz Montejano stopped extracting around 1750, the dispensation records for later years are filmed. For some reason there are no films for 1853 however other than possibly:

Matrimonios 1829-1830, 1850-1860, 1896 (faltan años) FHL INTL Film
168670

or

Linda:

Dispensations were given by the bishop and were therefore kept chronologically for the entire bishphoric of Guadalajara, which included for the first couple of centuries everything north of Guanajuato, including Zacatecas, Nuevo Leon, Durango, Texas, Coahuila, etc.

The book is available through George Farias' bookstore online at:

http://www.borderlandsbooks.com/searchdb.asp

Though he seems to be out of stock at the moment. He reorders regularly. I had to wait a month or so when I bought mine.

Anyhow, Luz Montejano's book only covers the dispensations through about 1750 so the dispensation you mention would not be there. The only Calderas listed are:

Ana de Santiago Caldera
Cathalina Caldera
Cayetano Caldera
Nicolas Caldera
Nicolas de la Cruz Caldera
Pablo Caldera

Thank you Arturo, are any of these Caldera's from Jerez Zacatecas? Do you think it's a good investment for me as far as records from Jerez go?
Linda

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

Dispensations were given by the bishop and were therefore kept chronologically for the entire bishphoric of Guadalajara, which included for the first couple of centuries everything north of Guanajuato, including Zacatecas, Nuevo Leon, Durango, Texas, Coahuila, etc.

The book is available through George Farias' bookstore online at:

http://www.borderlandsbooks.com/searchdb.asp

Though he seems to be out of stock at the moment. He reorders regularly. I had to wait a month or so when I bought mine.

Anyhow, Luz Montejano's book only covers the dispensations through about 1750 so the dispensation you mention would not be there. The only Calderas listed are:

Ana de Santiago Caldera
Cathalina Caldera
Cayetano Caldera
Nicolas Caldera
Nicolas de la Cruz Caldera
Pablo Caldera

Linda:

I believe that Susana Leniski has compiled a pretty detailed descendancy of Maria Cid Caldera based mostly on marriage dispensations from Luz Montejano's book and has posted it in her genealogy folder. So to the extent that there are Calderas from Zacatecas they are likely to be included there. I think most of the Calderas are from around Jerez since that is where Pedro Cid Caldera and his siblings lived and most people with that surname I imagine are descended from that group or were named after someone from that group (i.e. slaves or indigenous servants who took the name).

Miguel Caldera I believe had only one daughter named Isabel (illegitimate) who married and had two children whose surname I believe was De La Torre so his sister Maria's children (especially Pedro Cid Caldera) seem to be the legacy of that family as far as names go.

Hi Arturo, I agree and Ed Serros was kind enough to send me a copy of the record. My biggest problem is not being able to read Spanish without the online translater.. but, it's getting better year by year..

When I bought and read Mexico's Miguel Caldera it talks about the Indio leaders who took his name, right up to actually calling themselves Miguel Caldera out of respect for him. I do believe my 3 Caldera grandmothers, all from El Durazno, Jerez Zacatecas, all claimed Espanol but I also found records in that same town who were Indio so the decendants of both the Espanol and Indio lines are there and in Boca de San Pedro, Jerez Zacatecas. I'm sure they are all over Zacatecas and San Luis Potosi but with so many records missing during the mid to late 1700's in Jerez it's a real challenge. In El Durazno, they were not listed as slaves, only Indio so I'd like to believe they were from the Guachichiles/ Chichimeca Indio leaders, late 1600's, lines listed in the book. 12 Chichimeca chiefs went with Miguel Caldera to Mexico City where they recieved gifts and promises, from some of these chiefs decend other Indio Caldera's as well.

I think one of the most interesting things when I went to El Durazno, Jerez in 2003 I met almost everyone in El Durazno, population today of abt 250. Almost everyone there carries Caldera lineage. I found one thing in common with that lineage, green eyes! I've never seen so many shades of green eyes and these are the decendants of the people who've lived in that rancho since late 1600's so the lines are pretty much mixed with the same families over and over for 400 years. I was amazed how much I looked like them right down to the green eyes. I went to a wedding while I was there and they told me I was a daughter of El Durazno, by blood and by looks. It was nice to "go home."
thanks again, Linda in Everett

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

I believe that Susana Leniski has compiled a pretty detailed descendancy of Maria Cid Caldera based mostly on marriage dispensations from Luz Montejano's book and has posted it in her genealogy folder. So to the extent that there are Calderas from Zacatecas they are likely to be included there. I think most of the Calderas are from around Jerez since that is where Pedro Cid Caldera and his siblings lived and most people with that surname I imagine are descended from that group or were named after someone from that group (i.e. slaves or indigenous servants who took the name).

Miguel Caldera I believe had only one daughter named Isabel (illegitimate) who married and had two children whose surname I believe was De La Torre so his sister Maria's children (especially Pedro Cid Caldera) seem to be the legacy of that family as far as names go.

Linda:

As you may know, there are several books in the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that were never filmed. We have been trying to lobby Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia to get a team to go back down and get those filmed along with the remains of the oldest books in nearby Colotlan, Jalisco. Perhaps if you add your name to the petition it will move it along.

Arturo, I was not aware there are more records that have not been recorded. How do I add my name to this list you're talking abt? I'm not aware of it. Who is Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia?

Do you know what kind of records they are or what years they cover? Has anyone been able to access them when they were in Jerez or Colotlan or are there copies located somewhere else? I'm under the impression the records were not filmed in the smaller towns but at the place the copies were sent. Is this correct? How exciting!
Linda

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

As you may know, there are several books in the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that were never filmed. We have been trying to lobby Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia to get a team to go back down and get those filmed along with the remains of the oldest books in nearby Colotlan, Jalisco. Perhaps if you add your name to the petition it will move it along.

Oh, yes, exciting! I would love to add my name to the petition, also, as I have been finding that I have some ancestors coming up from the Colotlán and El Refugio areas in Jalisco. I think they're so close to Momax that people could go in either direction for services. Where do I sign?!?! :-)

Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote: Arturo, I was not aware there are more records that have not been recorded. How do I add my name to this list you're talking abt? I'm not aware of it. Who is Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia?

Do you know what kind of records they are or what years they cover? Has anyone been able to access them when they were in Jerez or Colotlan or are there copies located somewhere else? I'm under the impression the records were not filmed in the smaller towns but at the place the copies were sent. Is this correct? How exciting!
Linda

arturoramos wrote:

Linda:

As you may know, there are several books in the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that were never filmed. We have been trying to lobby Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia to get a team to go back down and get those filmed along with the remains of the oldest books in nearby Colotlan, Jalisco. Perhaps if you add your name to the petition it will move it along.

What petition? I will sign on. This Samuel is from Monterrey, correct?

Mickey

-----Original Message-----
From: arturo.ramos2@gmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 3:04 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Missing records in Jerez

Linda:

As you may know, there are several books in the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that
were never filmed. We have been trying to lobby Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia
to get a team to go back down and get those filmed along with the remains of the
oldest books in nearby Colotlan, Jalisco. Perhaps if you add your name to the
petition it will move it along.

Everybody interested in this region:

I apologize, I should have been more clear, there is no physical petition for filming of the unfilmned books in Jerez and Colotlan, there is only an informal lobbying of Sameuel Sanchez (who lives in Monterrey and is a member of this group) to push for the filming of these records. Obviously, there are costs involved in this and therefore it is much easier said than done, but if there is a core of people that would really like to have access to these records, perhaps we can do something.

The first thing to do would be to contact Samuel and simply let him know that you think this is an important project. We may eventually have to do more than that but I know that the Colotlan records are not available to the public at the church and they are already deteriorated so the longer we wait the worse off we are. These are precious documents that need to be preserved.

Please look up Samuel and write him a note about this if you are genuinely interested in having it done.

Arturo, does Samuel speak English or should I have my letter translated into Spanish for him. Do you know if they are making monetary collections for this project?
Linda in Everett

arturoramos wrote:

Everybody interested in this region:

I apologize, I should have been more clear, there is no physical petition for filming of the unfilmned books in Jerez and Colotlan, there is only an informal lobbying of Sameuel Sanchez (who lives in Monterrey and is a member of this group) to push for the filming of these records. Obviously, there are costs involved in this and therefore it is much easier said than done, but if there is a core of people that would really like to have access to these records, perhaps we can do something.

The first thing to do would be to contact Samuel and simply let him know that you think this is an important project. We may eventually have to do more than that but I know that the Colotlan records are not available to the public at the church and they are already deteriorated so the longer we wait the worse off we are. These are precious documents that need to be preserved.

Please look up Samuel and write him a note about this if you are genuinely interested in having it done.

Linda:

I imagine that Samuel reads English but I would be more than happy to translate a letter for you if you feel it is more appropriate to communicate with him in Spanish. Samuel runs the Sociedad Geanalogica del Norte de Mexico and is very involved in the Mexican LDS genealogy projects.

As far as seeing the records, I have seen the Colotlan book though I was prohibited from touching or opening it by the priest. Esteban Valdes Salazar has transcribed large parts of it and is very familiar with it. It is basically the remnants of a number of older Franciscan Convent books that have had holes punched through them and put into a binder... apparently the pages that were too damaged were discarded... how awful!

I know that Leonardo de la Torre Berumen has seen and transcribed many of the Jerez books and Susana Leniski has had the parrish archivist inventory them all for her.

Genealogy Research