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Por cwood1411 |

Hello Everyone,
Just registerd for the site and have spent a couple of days reviewing the lists. So excited about the possibility of finding my mothers family! Have spent many years researching my father's side, but didn't have much (and still don't) on my mom's side. So here goes:

Looking for the Calzada-Briones-Colunga family possibly in Fresnillo. They seemed to have moved quite a bit, but found the 1930 Mexico census that listed my grandmother and her parents in Santa Barbara, CHI, MX. The census listed my great grandparents as having been born in Zacatecas, no city listed. Just yesterday, I learned that they may have been from or lived in Fresnillo, Zacatecas, as this was the birth place of one of their children but not necessarily the city where my great grand parents were born, but it's a starting point! My mother's memory is not so good but this is the info I have so far and hoping to make a connection:

Juan Briones-Colunga b. abt 1884 Zacatecas
m. Josefa Calzada b. abt 1887 Zacatecas
ch:
1. Filiberto/Alberto Colunga b. 1900 Fresnillo, Zacatecas d. 1989, buried Parral Cemetery, CHI, MX
m. Isiidra (Ciri) L. Terrazas
ch: Abigail, Savina, Genaro, Benedicto, Hiliberto, Concepcion, Ester
2. Federico Colunga b. abt 1910 CHI
m. Justina Unknown
3. Refugia Colunga b. est 1913
4. Miguel Colunga b. abt 1912
5. Luis Colunga b. abt 1914
6. Erlinda/Hermelinda Colunga b. abt 1916 (my grandmother) d. abt 1940/41
m. Samuel Reyes-Marquez
ch: 2 daughters
7. Rebeca Colunga b. abt 1918
m. Jesus Menarrez
8. Ambrosio Colunga b. abt 1923 d. abt 1941/42
9. Salvador 'Chava' Colunga b. abt 1926

From memory, my mother and her cousin say that an Enrique Colunga was either a son of Juan or a brother of Juan Colunga. Enrique was a governor of Guanajuato, very short term. Family lore says that Juan and son, Filiberto, rode with Pancho Villa and Filiberto was buried in the same cemetery as Pancho Villa.
Juan Colunga and sons were wealthy entreprenuers holding occupations as 'Zapatero's', (shoemakers?) and they owned shoe stores. I have one family picture of my great grandparents and some of their children.

My grandparents, Hermelinda and Samuel were divorced with two daughters. Samuel Marquez removed to El Paso, TX. Hermelinda died about one year after my mother was born and the two sisters were separated. They have only met once since then (1979). Last known, my Aunt was in Mexico City, but attempts to reach her have been unsuccesful. My grandfather made several attempts to regain custody of his two daughters, but the maternal uncles would run him out of town at each attempt. My grandfather was finally able to get my mother (long story about how this was done) when she was 15 and brought her to the US. He was not able to find her sister.

Any help on this family would be greatly appreciated.
Cathy

So much for my theory that Juan Briones Colunga was such a rare name. Now that we have gotten the surname order sorted out... There is a Juan Briones Colunga that was born in Zacatecas in 1870... much more likely to be your great-grandfather than the Juan Colunga Briones I sent you earlier:

JUAN COLUNGA BRIONES
Male
Christening: 02 JAN 1870 San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas, Mexico
Parents:
Father: CRECENCIO COLUNGA
Mother: SERAPIA BRIONES
Source Information:
Batch No.: C606315 Film 1095675

As far as surnames, it was equally common for children to take their mother's surname as to take their father's prior to the 18th Century. Often, the children would even take a grandparent's surname or a prominent townperson's surname to honor them so they would not share either of their parent's surnames.

As Daniel mentions, the choice was often based on which family was more prominent, sort of how the Kennedy women keep their surname even after they get married. Often if both families were prominent, as Daniel mentions, they would combine the surnames and the "composed" surname would continue to be passed on over generation in it composed form.

The Bourbon reforms introduced the mandatory use of both parents' surnames, father's first and mother's second. So from the children's names in your listing, it is clear that the father's first surname was Colunga and so Briones must have been his maternal surname.

Another clue to this being your family is that in Pino, Zacatecas there were a couple of Calzada families having children around the correct time for one of the families to be Josefa's family. She is likely too young to appear in the LDS databases but you may find her on the subsequent films.

1. VICTORIANA CALZADA RUIS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 18 DEC 1870 San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas, Mexico

2. ELIGIA CALZADA NAVA - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 08 DEC 1871 San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas, Mexico

3. TOMASA CALZADA NAVA - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 09 JAN 1869 San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas, Mexico

Title Registros parroquiales, 1640-1920
Authors Iglesia Católica. San Matías (Pinos, Zacatecas) (Main Author)

Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1881-1885 FHL INTL Film 1095678
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1885-1888 FHL INTL Film 1095679
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1888-1891 FHL INTL Film 1095680

Catherine Wood
Found my grandmothers bautismos, Hermelinda Colunga and her Padrinos were Crecencio Colunga and Serapia Briones! Finally have confirmation from Arturo's lead in earlier email...Thank you Arturo. I found her in San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas. The certificate says she was born in 1903, which is far different than what the 1930 census shows for her age while living in Santa Barbara, Chih., Now I can prove the following information:
1. Vicente Colunga m. Guadelupe Rodriguez
2. Juan Jose Colunga abt.1802 San Matias, Pinos m. 10 May 1826 Maria Dionicia Gallegos b. abt 1803,, daughter of Mariano Gallegos
and Maria Victoriana Gutierrez of Pinos
3. Jose Crecencio Colunga bpt 23 Apr 1843 San Matias, Pinos m. Serapia Briones bpt 17 Nov 1844, daughter of Gregorio Briones and
Maria Natividad Lugo (of Jose Leocadio Briones y Maria Josefa Valentina Macias and of Guillermo Lugo y Maria Salas)
4. Juan Briones Colunga bpt 2 Jan 1870 San Matias, Pinos m. Josefa Hernandez-Calzada.
My mother and her cousins believe that one of these relatives was French. Not sure which one as they all sound spanish to me. My great grandfather,, Juan Briones Colunga was blond with blue eyes, but so are many spanish people.They are not sure if it is one of these families or one on the Hernandez-Calzada side (I have not researched much on that side....yet). Back to searching images! Thanks again Nuestrosranchos!

Hi Catherine,

Nice to meet you even if it is through these means. We may end up being related. The spanish
Colunga were in fact the Colunga y Cortes family who settled in Pinos and Aguascalientes in the
mid XVII century. They were closely related to the Ruiz de Esparza, Anso y Tellez, and
Torres y Rivera clans. The Torres y Rivera were a family that held a mayorazgo, a document
of merits of Diego de Torres y Rivera which explains about his paternal lineage. Lots of interesting
facts with all these close knit families. For what ever reason lots of people believe blue eyes=french
I don't know where they get that but it is very ignorant. Any european can have these traits.

Let me know how I can help I would want to know if we connect through the Colunga line. My mother
is a descendant of Juan de Colunga Cortes.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Hello Daniel,
I hope we can find a connection. Interesting facts about the Colunga Family. Do
you know where I can find more of this information? I haven't yet come across
any of he names you mentioned in relation to the Colunga's but it's still early
in my research. I was able to find many of the children of my Juan Jose Colunga
y Dionicia Gallegos and have posted them to my tree on Ancestry.com. Happy to
share what I have to see if we can find a connection. I am now in the process of
scanning through all films beginning with the first one to pull as many Colunga
or Briones members I can find in San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas.
My mother said that she thought some of the family were from Santa Maria de los
Logos, Jalisco, so will look there when done with Zacatecas. I did do a
precursory look in Jalisco and the only French sounding connection to the
Colunga's was Limon. Of course that doesn't mean it actually is french...it just
sounds french....:) But not sure if there is a connection there or not.
Cathy

________________________________
From: Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Sent: Tue, July 5, 2011 1:53:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga

Hi Catherine,

Nice to meet you even if it is through these means. We may end up being related.
The spanish
Colunga were in fact the Colunga y Cortes family who settled in Pinos and
Aguascalientes in the
mid XVII century. They were closely related to the Ruiz de Esparza, Anso y
Tellez, and
Torres y Rivera clans. The Torres y Rivera were a family that held a mayorazgo,
a document
of merits of Diego de Torres y Rivera which explains about his paternal lineage.
Lots of interesting
facts with all these close knit families. For what ever reason lots of people
believe blue eyes=french
I don't know where they get that but it is very ignorant. Any european can have
these traits.

Let me know how I can help I would want to know if we connect through the
Colunga line. My mother
is a descendant of Juan de Colunga Cortes.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Hi Catherine,

This is good news, I wish you the best on your search. You will learn things about your family that may have been lost
in the midst of time as you study your family. I did a quick lookup. I found Juana Maria de la Asuncion Colunga
baptized 7 May 1807 in Capilla de la Santisima Trinidad, Pinos, Zacatecas, Mexico. She was born on 5 May 1807,
spaniard, born to Vicente Colunga and Guadalupe Rodriguez. Grandaughter of Juan Colunga and Gertrudis Quesada,
Gervasia Rodriguez. This probably means Guadalupe was a hija natural or born out of wedlock, since it does not mention
the maternal grandfather.

Your Colunga line may have came from San Luis Potosi, there was rapid movement between sites in SLP and Pinos.
I have noticed many times the scribes in these areas do no include the mother's or bride's las name, I had to search
in baptisms to find their last name. I tell you this because I found a Juan Paulin Colunga married to a Maria Gertrudis
on 12 Oct 1755 in San Francisco, Villa de Reyes, San Luis Potosi. You may want to order this record to see if they
are spanish. My Colunga Cortes line came from San Luis Potosi, precisley Villa de Reyes, so it looks we could
very well be related. My line was interesting because it included my Chavez Fragoso line traveling to San Luis Potosi
to marry a Colunga Cortes. These families were not that close geographically. You will probably end being descendant
of Joseph de Colunga Cortes and Isabel Mendez Paez.

In case you did not find this. Leocadio Briones and Josefa Macias married 7 Oct 1815 in San Matias, Pinos, record which I did not find
but you may want to search for it or the baptisms which could very well include grandparents' names.

Guillermo Lugo and Maria de los Santos Salas were from San Luis Potosi from a nearby town named Charcas (I also have a line
going there from and to Pinos) They were married 30 Jul 1817 in Charcas, SLP son of Apolinario Lugo and Albina Rosalia Gomez, Gregoria Salas.

I hope I could be of service,

Daniel Méndez Camino

Hello Catherine,

What used to be called Santa María de los Lagos is now called Lagos de
Moreno in honor of the insurgent Pedro Moreno. He was one of the first
people to fight for independence from Spain. It's shortened form is simply
Lagos. A majority of my Mexican ancestors on my fathers side are from Lagos
and I still have a lot of close relatives there. I have been doing a lot of
research for the town so let me know if there is a family from Lagos you
want info on. I might be able to help.

As far the story of your ancestors being French it is probably from the myth
of the lost legion of French soldiers from Napoleon's army during their
occupation of Mexico causing the people of Los Altos to have blond hair,
blue eyes, and white skin. This myth has become so widespread that people
repeat it as if it were factual truth. The myth is so common it caused Dr.
Mariano González Leal to write a chapter on disproving the myth in one of
his Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia.

Since I have started researching heavily in the past couple of years I have
learned many of the families that intermarried were from central and
northern Spain such as Lope Ruiz de Esparza was from Navarra, the González
de Hermosillo were from Burgos, Diego Romo de Vivar was likely from Vivar in
Burgos, Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar was from Burgos, Bartolome Martín del
Campo was from Revilla de Campos, Palencia, Castilla y León, Rubalcaba was
probably from that town of the same name in in Liérganes, Cantabría, Azuela
is a surname that originated in Burgos, Luebana is a Basque word and
surname, and so on. Nueva Galicia could as well have been named Nueva
Castilla. I descend from almost all of those families, as many of us do, and
it would explain why my grandfather's brother, and many other people of Los
Altos, had blue eyes and light skin. There weren't any French that created a
significant descendancy to be able to attribute the northern European
features to them. As far as our the European side, we are descendants of
Spaniards. As is most likely the case with other Jaliscience's such as Saul
"El Canelo" Alvarez, Guillermo del Toro, and Javier "El Chicharo" Hernández
Gutiérrez (the father of Chicharito), .

Saludos,
Armando

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 5:09 PM, wrote:

> Catherine Wood
> Found my grandmothers bautismos, Hermelinda Colunga and her Padrinos were
> Crecencio Colunga and Serapia Briones! Finally have confirmation from
> Arturo's lead in earlier email...Thank you Arturo. I found her in San
> Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas. The certificate says she was born in 1903, which
> is far different than what the 1930 census shows for her age while living
> in Santa Barbara, Chih., Now I can prove the following information:
> 1. Vicente Colunga m. Guadelupe Rodriguez
> 2. Juan Jose Colunga abt.1802 San Matias, Pinos m. 10 May 1826 Maria
> Dionicia Gallegos b. abt 1803,, daughter of Mariano Gallegos
> and Maria Victoriana Gutierrez of Pinos 3. Jose Crecencio Colunga bpt
> 23 Apr 1843 San Matias, Pinos m. Serapia Briones bpt 17 Nov 1844, daughter
> of Gregorio Briones and
> Maria Natividad Lugo (of Jose Leocadio Briones y Maria Josefa
> Valentina Macias and of Guillermo Lugo y Maria Salas)
> 4. Juan Briones Colunga bpt 2 Jan 1870 San Matias, Pinos m. Josefa
> Hernandez-Calzada.
> My mother and her cousins believe that one of these relatives was French.
> Not sure which one as they all sound spanish to me. My great grandfather,,
> Juan Briones Colunga was blond with blue eyes, but so are many spanish
> people.They are not sure if it is one of these families or one on the
> Hernandez-Calzada side (I have not researched much on that side....yet).
> Back to searching images! Thanks again Nuestrosranchos! -- -- -- -- --

Interesting....with the family  name I am researching Casillas Y Cabrera, the whole family keeps asking me where is the  "French Connection", because our Grandfather and a few a unts were blond haired   and blue-eyed from Jalostotitlan, and I keep telling them I have found nothing like that so far.  No French connection,  but any European country has folks who are also fair ,  with blond hair  and blue eyes. My father's family who are entirely French, all the way back in our ancestry, are mostly dark haired and dark eyed, but he  had one blond sister as well.   

Nancy Casillas

Saint Clair, Michgian 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Armando"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 7:22:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga

Hello Catherine,

What used to be called Santa María de los Lagos is now called Lagos de
Moreno in honor of the insurgent Pedro Moreno. He was one of the first
people to fight for independence from Spain. It's shortened form is simply
Lagos. A majority of my Mexican ancestors on my fathers side are from Lagos
and I still have a lot of close relatives there. I have been doing a lot of
research for the town so let me know if there is a family from Lagos you
want info on. I might be able to help.

As far the story of your ancestors being French it is probably from the myth
of the lost legion of French soldiers from Napoleon's army during their
occupation of Mexico causing the people of Los Altos to have blond hair,
blue eyes, and white skin. This myth has become so widespread that people
repeat it as if it were factual truth. The myth is so common it caused Dr.
Mariano González Leal to write a chapter on disproving the myth in one of
his Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia.

Since I have started researching heavily in the past couple of years I have
learned many of the families that intermarried were from central and
northern Spain such as Lope Ruiz de Esparza was from Navarra, the González
de Hermosillo were from Burgos, Diego Romo de Vivar was likely from Vivar in
Burgos, Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar was from Burgos, Bartolome Martín del
Campo was from Revilla de Campos, Palencia, Castilla y León, Rubalcaba was
probably from that town of the same name in in Liérganes, Cantabría, Azuela
is a surname that originated in Burgos, Luebana is a Basque word and
surname, and so on. Nueva Galicia could as well have been named Nueva
Castilla. I descend from almost all of those families, as many of us do, and
it would explain why my grandfather's brother, and many other people of Los
Altos, had blue eyes and light skin. There weren't any French that created a
significant descendancy to be able to attribute the northern European
features to them. As far as our the European side, we are descendants of
Spaniards. As is most likely the case with other Jaliscience's such as Saul
"El Canelo" Alvarez, Guillermo del Toro, and Javier "El Chicharo" Hernández
Gutiérrez (the father of Chicharito), .

Saludos,
Armando

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 5:09 PM, wrote:

> Catherine Wood
> Found my grandmothers bautismos, Hermelinda Colunga  and her Padrinos were
> Crecencio Colunga and Serapia Briones! Finally have confirmation  from
> Arturo's lead in earlier email...Thank you Arturo.  I found her in San
> Matias, Pinos,   Zacatecas. The certificate says she was born in 1903, which
>  is far different than what the 1930 census shows for her age while living
> in Santa Barbara, Chih., Now I can prove the following information:
> 1. Vicente Colunga m. Guadelupe Rodriguez
>  2. Juan Jose Colunga abt.1802 San Matias, Pinos m. 10 May 1826 Maria
> Dionicia Gallegos b. abt 1803,, daughter of Mariano Gallegos
>  and Maria Victoriana Gutierrez of Pinos     3. Jose Crecencio Colunga bpt
> 23 Apr 1843 San Matias, Pinos m. Serapia Briones bpt 17 Nov 1844, daughter
> of Gregorio Briones and
>         Maria Natividad Lugo (of Jose Leocadio Briones y Maria Josefa
> Valentina Macias and of Guillermo Lugo y Maria Salas)
>      4. Juan Briones Colunga bpt  2 Jan 1870 San Matias, Pinos m. Josefa
> Hernandez-Calzada.
> My mother and her cousins believe that one  of these relatives was French.
> Not sure which one as they all sound spanish to me.  My great grandfather,,
> Juan Briones Colunga was blond with blue eyes, but so are many spanish
> people.They are not sure if it is one of these families or one on the
> Hernandez-Calzada side (I have not researched much on that side....yet).
> Back to searching images!  Thanks again Nuestrosranchos!      -- -- -- -- --

Like I said, it is a most likely false story that stems from the myth of the
lost legion of French soldiers. It's only through these genealogical studies
that we'll get to the point where everyone fully understands it was only a
myth. Jalos (Jalostotiltán) is part of Los Altos and is the area included in
this myth.

What are the names and dates of your ancestors from Jalos?

Armando

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:06 AM, wrote:

>
>
> Interesting....with the family name I am researching Casillas Y Cabrera,
> the whole family keeps asking me where is the "French Connection", because
> our Grandfather and a few a unts were blond haired and blue-eyed from
> Jalostotitlan, and I keep telling them I have found nothing like that so
> far. No French connection, but any European country has folks who are also
> fair , with blond hair and blue eyes. My father's family who are entirely
> French, all the way back in our ancestry, are mostly dark haired and dark
> eyed, but he had one blond sister as well.
>
> Nancy Casillas
>
> Saint Clair, Michgian
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Armando"
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 7:22:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
>
> Hello Catherine,
>
> What used to be called Santa María de los Lagos is now called Lagos de
> Moreno in honor of the insurgent Pedro Moreno. He was one of the first
> people to fight for independence from Spain. It's shortened form is simply
> Lagos. A majority of my Mexican ancestors on my fathers side are from Lagos
> and I still have a lot of close relatives there. I have been doing a lot of
> research for the town so let me know if there is a family from Lagos you
> want info on. I might be able to help.
>
> As far the story of your ancestors being French it is probably from the
> myth
> of the lost legion of French soldiers from Napoleon's army during their
> occupation of Mexico causing the people of Los Altos to have blond hair,
> blue eyes, and white skin. This myth has become so widespread that people
> repeat it as if it were factual truth. The myth is so common it caused Dr.
> Mariano González Leal to write a chapter on disproving the myth in one of
> his Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia.
>
> Since I have started researching heavily in the past couple of years I have
> learned many of the families that intermarried were from central and
> northern Spain such as Lope Ruiz de Esparza was from Navarra, the González
> de Hermosillo were from Burgos, Diego Romo de Vivar was likely from Vivar
> in
> Burgos, Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar was from Burgos, Bartolome Martín del
> Campo was from Revilla de Campos, Palencia, Castilla y León, Rubalcaba was
> probably from that town of the same name in in Liérganes, Cantabría, Azuela
> is a surname that originated in Burgos, Luebana is a Basque word and
> surname, and so on. Nueva Galicia could as well have been named Nueva
> Castilla. I descend from almost all of those families, as many of us do,
> and
> it would explain why my grandfather's brother, and many other people of Los
> Altos, had blue eyes and light skin. There weren't any French that created
> a
> significant descendancy to be able to attribute the northern European
> features to them. As far as our the European side, we are descendants of
> Spaniards. As is most likely the case with other Jaliscience's such as Saul
> "El Canelo" Alvarez, Guillermo del Toro, and Javier "El Chicharo" Hernández
> Gutiérrez (the father of Chicharito), .
>
> Saludos,
> Armando
>
> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 5:09 PM, wrote:
>
> > Catherine Wood
> > Found my grandmothers bautismos, Hermelinda Colunga and her Padrinos
> were
> > Crecencio Colunga and Serapia Briones! Finally have confirmation from
> > Arturo's lead in earlier email...Thank you Arturo. I found her in San
> > Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas. The certificate says she was born in 1903,
> which
> > is far different than what the 1930 census shows for her age while
> living
> > in Santa Barbara, Chih., Now I can prove the following information:
> > 1. Vicente Colunga m. Guadelupe Rodriguez
> > 2. Juan Jose Colunga abt.1802 San Matias, Pinos m. 10 May 1826 Maria
> > Dionicia Gallegos b. abt 1803,, daughter of Mariano Gallegos
> > and Maria Victoriana Gutierrez of Pinos 3. Jose Crecencio Colunga
> bpt
> > 23 Apr 1843 San Matias, Pinos m. Serapia Briones bpt 17 Nov 1844,
> daughter
> > of Gregorio Briones and
> > Maria Natividad Lugo (of Jose Leocadio Briones y Maria Josefa
> > Valentina Macias and of Guillermo Lugo y Maria Salas)
> > 4. Juan Briones Colunga bpt 2 Jan 1870 San Matias, Pinos m. Josefa
> > Hernandez-Calzada.
> > My mother and her cousins believe that one of these relatives was
> French.
> > Not sure which one as they all sound spanish to me. My great
> grandfather,,
> > Juan Briones Colunga was blond with blue eyes, but so are many spanish
> > people.They are not sure if it is one of these families or one on the
> > Hernandez-Calzada side (I have not researched much on that side....yet).
> > Back to searching images! Thanks again Nuestrosranchos! -- -- -- --
> --
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Armando -

I guess the myth about the supposed French ancestry exists not only in Jalisco, but in Zacatecas as well. When I went once to Mexico with my parents (in the 1960s) as we passed through a small village on our way to where my father was born (Jerez) we encountered many people in that small place who were dark-skinned but their eyes were strikingly blue. I finally asked a gas station attendant why they had blue eyes, and he smiled shyly and said "the French were here". I wanted to know more, but my father scolded me for asking such a rude (personal) question. I wish I could remember the name of that town, but it was so long ago. My father himself said that his great-grandfather had blue eyes and was called "el Frances", but in records I found only "espanoles", no frances or other European. He was descended from Basques who were with the Onate Party in the late 1500s who had settled in Pinos, Zacatecas.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 08:34:38 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
>
> Like I said, it is a most likely false story that stems from the myth of the
> lost legion of French soldiers. It's only through these genealogical studies
> that we'll get to the point where everyone fully understands it was only a
> myth. Jalos (Jalostotiltán) is part of Los Altos and is the area included in
> this myth.
>
> What are the names and dates of your ancestors from Jalos?
>
> Armando
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:06 AM, wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Interesting....with the family name I am researching Casillas Y Cabrera,
> > the whole family keeps asking me where is the "French Connection", because
> > our Grandfather and a few a unts were blond haired and blue-eyed from
> > Jalostotitlan, and I keep telling them I have found nothing like that so
> > far. No French connection, but any European country has folks who are also
> > fair , with blond hair and blue eyes. My father's family who are entirely
> > French, all the way back in our ancestry, are mostly dark haired and dark
> > eyed, but he had one blond sister as well.
> >
> > Nancy Casillas
> >
> > Saint Clair, Michgian
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> >
> > From: "Armando"
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 7:22:39 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
> >
> > Hello Catherine,
> >
> > What used to be called Santa María de los Lagos is now called Lagos de
> > Moreno in honor of the insurgent Pedro Moreno. He was one of the first
> > people to fight for independence from Spain. It's shortened form is simply
> > Lagos. A majority of my Mexican ancestors on my fathers side are from Lagos
> > and I still have a lot of close relatives there. I have been doing a lot of
> > research for the town so let me know if there is a family from Lagos you
> > want info on. I might be able to help.
> >
> > As far the story of your ancestors being French it is probably from the
> > myth
> > of the lost legion of French soldiers from Napoleon's army during their
> > occupation of Mexico causing the people of Los Altos to have blond hair,
> > blue eyes, and white skin. This myth has become so widespread that people
> > repeat it as if it were factual truth. The myth is so common it caused Dr.
> > Mariano González Leal to write a chapter on disproving the myth in one of
> > his Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia.
> >
> > Since I have started researching heavily in the past couple of years I have
> > learned many of the families that intermarried were from central and
> > northern Spain such as Lope Ruiz de Esparza was from Navarra, the González
> > de Hermosillo were from Burgos, Diego Romo de Vivar was likely from Vivar
> > in
> > Burgos, Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar was from Burgos, Bartolome Martín del
> > Campo was from Revilla de Campos, Palencia, Castilla y León, Rubalcaba was
> > probably from that town of the same name in in Liérganes, Cantabría, Azuela
> > is a surname that originated in Burgos, Luebana is a Basque word and
> > surname, and so on. Nueva Galicia could as well have been named Nueva
> > Castilla. I descend from almost all of those families, as many of us do,
> > and
> > it would explain why my grandfather's brother, and many other people of Los
> > Altos, had blue eyes and light skin. There weren't any French that created
> > a
> > significant descendancy to be able to attribute the northern European
> > features to them. As far as our the European side, we are descendants of
> > Spaniards. As is most likely the case with other Jaliscience's such as Saul
> > "El Canelo" Alvarez, Guillermo del Toro, and Javier "El Chicharo" Hernández
> > Gutiérrez (the father of Chicharito), .
> >
> > Saludos,
> > Armando
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 5:09 PM, wrote:
> >
> > > Catherine Wood
> > > Found my grandmothers bautismos, Hermelinda Colunga and her Padrinos
> > were
> > > Crecencio Colunga and Serapia Briones! Finally have confirmation from
> > > Arturo's lead in earlier email...Thank you Arturo. I found her in San
> > > Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas. The certificate says she was born in 1903,
> > which
> > > is far different than what the 1930 census shows for her age while
> > living
> > > in Santa Barbara, Chih., Now I can prove the following information:
> > > 1. Vicente Colunga m. Guadelupe Rodriguez
> > > 2. Juan Jose Colunga abt.1802 San Matias, Pinos m. 10 May 1826 Maria
> > > Dionicia Gallegos b. abt 1803,, daughter of Mariano Gallegos
> > > and Maria Victoriana Gutierrez of Pinos 3. Jose Crecencio Colunga
> > bpt
> > > 23 Apr 1843 San Matias, Pinos m. Serapia Briones bpt 17 Nov 1844,
> > daughter
> > > of Gregorio Briones and
> > > Maria Natividad Lugo (of Jose Leocadio Briones y Maria Josefa
> > > Valentina Macias and of Guillermo Lugo y Maria Salas)
> > > 4. Juan Briones Colunga bpt 2 Jan 1870 San Matias, Pinos m. Josefa
> > > Hernandez-Calzada.
> > > My mother and her cousins believe that one of these relatives was
> > French.
> > > Not sure which one as they all sound spanish to me. My great
> > grandfather,,
> > > Juan Briones Colunga was blond with blue eyes, but so are many spanish
> > > people.They are not sure if it is one of these families or one on the
> > > Hernandez-Calzada side (I have not researched much on that side....yet).
> > > Back to searching images! Thanks again Nuestrosranchos! -- -- -- --
> > --
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Hello Emilie,

Thanks for sharing your experience. It would take more than one ancestor for
your 2nd ggrandfather to have blue eyes. It's not just the Basque ancestor,
it's also the families he married into, which is why I had mentioned the
origins of many of the founding families of Los Altos, which many had been
in Zacatecas first or ended up there. There were many more that I don't even
know about or remember to mention.
There is a famous charro from Nochistlán, Zacatecas that is güero and has
blue eyes, I forget his name at the moment. I met another person from Jerez,
Zacatecas that has shown me photos of his grandfather with blue eyes. So,
there are people all over Zacatecas with blue eyes, or ancestors with blue
eyes. Unfortunately, for some people, their genealogy can't be traced until
we get a huge database of Y-DNA of 111 markers.
As far as the myth making it to Zacatecas, that is easily believable. It was
the easy answer for people in the past that didn't want to spend time
calculating the possibility, which would have shown it wasn't. The numbers,
dates, and locations don't match up. Apart from that genealogical research
back then was very difficult.

Saludos,
Armando

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:

>
> Armando -
>
> I guess the myth about the supposed French ancestry exists not only in
> Jalisco, but in Zacatecas as well. When I went once to Mexico with my
> parents (in the 1960s) as we passed through a small village on our way to
> where my father was born (Jerez) we encountered many people in that small
> place who were dark-skinned but their eyes were strikingly blue. I finally
> asked a gas station attendant why they had blue eyes, and he smiled shyly
> and said "the French were here". I wanted to know more, but my father
> scolded me for asking such a rude (personal) question. I wish I could
> remember the name of that town, but it was so long ago. My father himself
> said that his great-grandfather had blue eyes and was called "el Frances",
> but in records I found only "espanoles", no frances or other European. He
> was descended from Basques who were with the Onate Party in the late 1500s
> who had settled in Pinos, Zacatecas.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 08:34:38 -0500
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
> >
> > Like I said, it is a most likely false story that stems from the myth of
> the
> > lost legion of French soldiers. It's only through these genealogical
> studies
> > that we'll get to the point where everyone fully understands it was only
> a
> > myth. Jalos (Jalostotiltán) is part of Los Altos and is the area included
> in
> > this myth.
> >
> > What are the names and dates of your ancestors from Jalos?
> >
> > Armando
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:06 AM, wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Interesting....with the family name I am researching Casillas Y
> Cabrera,
> > > the whole family keeps asking me where is the "French Connection",
> because
> > > our Grandfather and a few a unts were blond haired and blue-eyed from
> > > Jalostotitlan, and I keep telling them I have found nothing like that
> so
> > > far. No French connection, but any European country has folks who are
> also
> > > fair , with blond hair and blue eyes. My father's family who are
> entirely
> > > French, all the way back in our ancestry, are mostly dark haired and
> dark
> > > eyed, but he had one blond sister as well.
> > >
> > > Nancy Casillas
> > >
> > > Saint Clair, Michgian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > >
> > > From: "Armando"
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 7:22:39 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
> > >
> > > Hello Catherine,
> > >
> > > What used to be called Santa María de los Lagos is now called Lagos de
> > > Moreno in honor of the insurgent Pedro Moreno. He was one of the first
> > > people to fight for independence from Spain. It's shortened form is
> simply
> > > Lagos. A majority of my Mexican ancestors on my fathers side are from
> Lagos
> > > and I still have a lot of close relatives there. I have been doing a
> lot of
> > > research for the town so let me know if there is a family from Lagos
> you
> > > want info on. I might be able to help.
> > >
> > > As far the story of your ancestors being French it is probably from the
> > > myth
> > > of the lost legion of French soldiers from Napoleon's army during their
> > > occupation of Mexico causing the people of Los Altos to have blond
> hair,
> > > blue eyes, and white skin. This myth has become so widespread that
> people
> > > repeat it as if it were factual truth. The myth is so common it caused
> Dr.
> > > Mariano González Leal to write a chapter on disproving the myth in one
> of
> > > his Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia.
> > >
> > > Since I have started researching heavily in the past couple of years I
> have
> > > learned many of the families that intermarried were from central and
> > > northern Spain such as Lope Ruiz de Esparza was from Navarra, the
> González
> > > de Hermosillo were from Burgos, Diego Romo de Vivar was likely from
> Vivar
> > > in
> > > Burgos, Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar was from Burgos, Bartolome Martín
> del
> > > Campo was from Revilla de Campos, Palencia, Castilla y León, Rubalcaba
> was
> > > probably from that town of the same name in in Liérganes, Cantabría,
> Azuela
> > > is a surname that originated in Burgos, Luebana is a Basque word and
> > > surname, and so on. Nueva Galicia could as well have been named Nueva
> > > Castilla. I descend from almost all of those families, as many of us
> do,
> > > and
> > > it would explain why my grandfather's brother, and many other people of
> Los
> > > Altos, had blue eyes and light skin. There weren't any French that
> created
> > > a
> > > significant descendancy to be able to attribute the northern European
> > > features to them. As far as our the European side, we are descendants
> of
> > > Spaniards. As is most likely the case with other Jaliscience's such as
> Saul
> > > "El Canelo" Alvarez, Guillermo del Toro, and Javier "El Chicharo"
> Hernández
> > > Gutiérrez (the father of Chicharito), .
> > >
> > > Saludos,
> > > Armando
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 5:09 PM, wrote:
> > >
> > > > Catherine Wood
> > > > Found my grandmothers bautismos, Hermelinda Colunga and her Padrinos
> > > were
> > > > Crecencio Colunga and Serapia Briones! Finally have confirmation from
> > > > Arturo's lead in earlier email...Thank you Arturo. I found her in San
> > > > Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas. The certificate says she was born in 1903,
> > > which
> > > > is far different than what the 1930 census shows for her age while
> > > living
> > > > in Santa Barbara, Chih., Now I can prove the following information:
> > > > 1. Vicente Colunga m. Guadelupe Rodriguez
> > > > 2. Juan Jose Colunga abt.1802 San Matias, Pinos m. 10 May 1826 Maria
> > > > Dionicia Gallegos b. abt 1803,, daughter of Mariano Gallegos
> > > > and Maria Victoriana Gutierrez of Pinos 3. Jose Crecencio Colunga
> > > bpt
> > > > 23 Apr 1843 San Matias, Pinos m. Serapia Briones bpt 17 Nov 1844,
> > > daughter
> > > > of Gregorio Briones and
> > > > Maria Natividad Lugo (of Jose Leocadio Briones y Maria Josefa
> > > > Valentina Macias and of Guillermo Lugo y Maria Salas)
> > > > 4. Juan Briones Colunga bpt 2 Jan 1870 San Matias, Pinos m. Josefa
> > > > Hernandez-Calzada.
> > > > My mother and her cousins believe that one of these relatives was
> > > French.
> > > > Not sure which one as they all sound spanish to me. My great
> > > grandfather,,
> > > > Juan Briones Colunga was blond with blue eyes, but so are many
> spanish
> > > > people.They are not sure if it is one of these families or one on the
> > > > Hernandez-Calzada side (I have not researched much on that
> side....yet).
> > > > Back to searching images! Thanks again Nuestrosranchos! -- -- -- --
> > > --
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Armando,

Yes, my father's lines also include the Felix de Arellano and Llanos de Valdez, as well as Olague Etulain. I think other lines also came from a place called Cienega de Mata. I don't really know where that was then, but it was owned by a famous espanol family, whose name I can't recall right now.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 12:44:49 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
>
> Hello Emilie,
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience. It would take more than one ancestor for
> your 2nd ggrandfather to have blue eyes. It's not just the Basque ancestor,
> it's also the families he married into, which is why I had mentioned the
> origins of many of the founding families of Los Altos, which many had been
> in Zacatecas first or ended up there. There were many more that I don't even
> know about or remember to mention.
> There is a famous charro from Nochistlán, Zacatecas that is güero and has
> blue eyes, I forget his name at the moment. I met another person from Jerez,
> Zacatecas that has shown me photos of his grandfather with blue eyes. So,
> there are people all over Zacatecas with blue eyes, or ancestors with blue
> eyes. Unfortunately, for some people, their genealogy can't be traced until
> we get a huge database of Y-DNA of 111 markers.
> As far as the myth making it to Zacatecas, that is easily believable. It was
> the easy answer for people in the past that didn't want to spend time
> calculating the possibility, which would have shown it wasn't. The numbers,
> dates, and locations don't match up. Apart from that genealogical research
> back then was very difficult.
>
> Saludos,
> Armando
>
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Emilie Garcia
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Armando -
> >
> > I guess the myth about the supposed French ancestry exists not only in
> > Jalisco, but in Zacatecas as well. When I went once to Mexico with my
> > parents (in the 1960s) as we passed through a small village on our way to
> > where my father was born (Jerez) we encountered many people in that small
> > place who were dark-skinned but their eyes were strikingly blue. I finally
> > asked a gas station attendant why they had blue eyes, and he smiled shyly
> > and said "the French were here". I wanted to know more, but my father
> > scolded me for asking such a rude (personal) question. I wish I could
> > remember the name of that town, but it was so long ago. My father himself
> > said that his great-grandfather had blue eyes and was called "el Frances",
> > but in records I found only "espanoles", no frances or other European. He
> > was descended from Basques who were with the Onate Party in the late 1500s
> > who had settled in Pinos, Zacatecas.
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> >
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 08:34:38 -0500
> > > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
> > >
> > > Like I said, it is a most likely false story that stems from the myth of
> > the
> > > lost legion of French soldiers. It's only through these genealogical
> > studies
> > > that we'll get to the point where everyone fully understands it was only
> > a
> > > myth. Jalos (Jalostotiltán) is part of Los Altos and is the area included
> > in
> > > this myth.
> > >
> > > What are the names and dates of your ancestors from Jalos?
> > >
> > > Armando
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:06 AM, wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Interesting....with the family name I am researching Casillas Y
> > Cabrera,
> > > > the whole family keeps asking me where is the "French Connection",
> > because
> > > > our Grandfather and a few a unts were blond haired and blue-eyed from
> > > > Jalostotitlan, and I keep telling them I have found nothing like that
> > so
> > > > far. No French connection, but any European country has folks who are
> > also
> > > > fair , with blond hair and blue eyes. My father's family who are
> > entirely
> > > > French, all the way back in our ancestry, are mostly dark haired and
> > dark
> > > > eyed, but he had one blond sister as well.
> > > >
> > > > Nancy Casillas
> > > >
> > > > Saint Clair, Michgian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: "Armando"
> > > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 7:22:39 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
> > > >
> > > > Hello Catherine,
> > > >
> > > > What used to be called Santa María de los Lagos is now called Lagos de
> > > > Moreno in honor of the insurgent Pedro Moreno. He was one of the first
> > > > people to fight for independence from Spain. It's shortened form is
> > simply
> > > > Lagos. A majority of my Mexican ancestors on my fathers side are from
> > Lagos
> > > > and I still have a lot of close relatives there. I have been doing a
> > lot of
> > > > research for the town so let me know if there is a family from Lagos
> > you
> > > > want info on. I might be able to help.
> > > >
> > > > As far the story of your ancestors being French it is probably from the
> > > > myth
> > > > of the lost legion of French soldiers from Napoleon's army during their
> > > > occupation of Mexico causing the people of Los Altos to have blond
> > hair,
> > > > blue eyes, and white skin. This myth has become so widespread that
> > people
> > > > repeat it as if it were factual truth. The myth is so common it caused
> > Dr.
> > > > Mariano González Leal to write a chapter on disproving the myth in one
> > of
> > > > his Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia.
> > > >
> > > > Since I have started researching heavily in the past couple of years I
> > have
> > > > learned many of the families that intermarried were from central and
> > > > northern Spain such as Lope Ruiz de Esparza was from Navarra, the
> > González
> > > > de Hermosillo were from Burgos, Diego Romo de Vivar was likely from
> > Vivar
> > > > in
> > > > Burgos, Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar was from Burgos, Bartolome Martín
> > del
> > > > Campo was from Revilla de Campos, Palencia, Castilla y León, Rubalcaba
> > was
> > > > probably from that town of the same name in in Liérganes, Cantabría,
> > Azuela
> > > > is a surname that originated in Burgos, Luebana is a Basque word and
> > > > surname, and so on. Nueva Galicia could as well have been named Nueva
> > > > Castilla. I descend from almost all of those families, as many of us
> > do,
> > > > and
> > > > it would explain why my grandfather's brother, and many other people of
> > Los
> > > > Altos, had blue eyes and light skin. There weren't any French that
> > created
> > > > a
> > > > significant descendancy to be able to attribute the northern European
> > > > features to them. As far as our the European side, we are descendants
> > of
> > > > Spaniards. As is most likely the case with other Jaliscience's such as
> > Saul
> > > > "El Canelo" Alvarez, Guillermo del Toro, and Javier "El Chicharo"
> > Hernández
> > > > Gutiérrez (the father of Chicharito), .
> > > >
> > > > Saludos,
> > > > Armando
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 5:09 PM, wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Catherine Wood
> > > > > Found my grandmothers bautismos, Hermelinda Colunga and her Padrinos
> > > > were
> > > > > Crecencio Colunga and Serapia Briones! Finally have confirmation from
> > > > > Arturo's lead in earlier email...Thank you Arturo. I found her in San
> > > > > Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas. The certificate says she was born in 1903,
> > > > which
> > > > > is far different than what the 1930 census shows for her age while
> > > > living
> > > > > in Santa Barbara, Chih., Now I can prove the following information:
> > > > > 1. Vicente Colunga m. Guadelupe Rodriguez
> > > > > 2. Juan Jose Colunga abt.1802 San Matias, Pinos m. 10 May 1826 Maria
> > > > > Dionicia Gallegos b. abt 1803,, daughter of Mariano Gallegos
> > > > > and Maria Victoriana Gutierrez of Pinos 3. Jose Crecencio Colunga
> > > > bpt
> > > > > 23 Apr 1843 San Matias, Pinos m. Serapia Briones bpt 17 Nov 1844,
> > > > daughter
> > > > > of Gregorio Briones and
> > > > > Maria Natividad Lugo (of Jose Leocadio Briones y Maria Josefa
> > > > > Valentina Macias and of Guillermo Lugo y Maria Salas)
> > > > > 4. Juan Briones Colunga bpt 2 Jan 1870 San Matias, Pinos m. Josefa
> > > > > Hernandez-Calzada.
> > > > > My mother and her cousins believe that one of these relatives was
> > > > French.
> > > > > Not sure which one as they all sound spanish to me. My great
> > > > grandfather,,
> > > > > Juan Briones Colunga was blond with blue eyes, but so are many
> > spanish
> > > > > people.They are not sure if it is one of these families or one on the
> > > > > Hernandez-Calzada side (I have not researched much on that
> > side....yet).
> > > > > Back to searching images! Thanks again Nuestrosranchos! -- -- -- --
> > > > --
> > > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > > >
> > > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
> > > > >
> > > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > >
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

Emilie,

Cienega de Mata was owned by the Rincón-Gallardo family. It was part of one
of the largest haciendas Mexico ever had. It's located in the muncipality of
Lagos de Moreno and the capilla pertained in the ecclesiastic to the
parroquia of Aguascalientes. We spoke about this before when you asked about
Matheo de Arteaga and the meaning of laguense.
Unfortunately I am not familiar with your Felix de Arellano and Llanos de
Valdez lines but they most likey also had an ancestor or two with blue eyes
also.

Armando

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:

>
> Armando,
>
> Yes, my father's lines also include the Felix de Arellano and Llanos de
> Valdez, as well as Olague Etulain. I think other lines also came from a
> place called Cienega de Mata. I don't really know where that was then, but
> it was owned by a famous espanol family, whose name I can't recall right
> now.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 12:44:49 -0500
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
> >
> > Hello Emilie,
> >
> > Thanks for sharing your experience. It would take more than one ancestor
> for
> > your 2nd ggrandfather to have blue eyes. It's not just the Basque
> ancestor,
> > it's also the families he married into, which is why I had mentioned the
> > origins of many of the founding families of Los Altos, which many had
> been
> > in Zacatecas first or ended up there. There were many more that I don't
> even
> > know about or remember to mention.
> > There is a famous charro from Nochistlán, Zacatecas that is güero and has
> > blue eyes, I forget his name at the moment. I met another person from
> Jerez,
> > Zacatecas that has shown me photos of his grandfather with blue eyes. So,
> > there are people all over Zacatecas with blue eyes, or ancestors with
> blue
> > eyes. Unfortunately, for some people, their genealogy can't be traced
> until
> > we get a huge database of Y-DNA of 111 markers.
> > As far as the myth making it to Zacatecas, that is easily believable. It
> was
> > the easy answer for people in the past that didn't want to spend time
> > calculating the possibility, which would have shown it wasn't. The
> numbers,
> > dates, and locations don't match up. Apart from that genealogical
> research
> > back then was very difficult.
> >
> > Saludos,
> > Armando
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Emilie Garcia
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Armando -
> > >
> > > I guess the myth about the supposed French ancestry exists not only in
> > > Jalisco, but in Zacatecas as well. When I went once to Mexico with my
> > > parents (in the 1960s) as we passed through a small village on our way
> to
> > > where my father was born (Jerez) we encountered many people in that
> small
> > > place who were dark-skinned but their eyes were strikingly blue. I
> finally
> > > asked a gas station attendant why they had blue eyes, and he smiled
> shyly
> > > and said "the French were here". I wanted to know more, but my father
> > > scolded me for asking such a rude (personal) question. I wish I could
> > > remember the name of that town, but it was so long ago. My father
> himself
> > > said that his great-grandfather had blue eyes and was called "el
> Frances",
> > > but in records I found only "espanoles", no frances or other European.
> He
> > > was descended from Basques who were with the Onate Party in the late
> 1500s
> > > who had settled in Pinos, Zacatecas.
> > >
> > > Emilie
> > > Port Orchard, WA
> > >
> > >
> > > > Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 08:34:38 -0500
> > > > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
> > > >
> > > > Like I said, it is a most likely false story that stems from the myth
> of
> > > the
> > > > lost legion of French soldiers. It's only through these genealogical
> > > studies
> > > > that we'll get to the point where everyone fully understands it was
> only
> > > a
> > > > myth. Jalos (Jalostotiltán) is part of Los Altos and is the area
> included
> > > in
> > > > this myth.
> > > >
> > > > What are the names and dates of your ancestors from Jalos?
> > > >
> > > > Armando
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:06 AM, wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting....with the family name I am researching Casillas Y
> > > Cabrera,
> > > > > the whole family keeps asking me where is the "French Connection",
> > > because
> > > > > our Grandfather and a few a unts were blond haired and blue-eyed
> from
> > > > > Jalostotitlan, and I keep telling them I have found nothing like
> that
> > > so
> > > > > far. No French connection, but any European country has folks who
> are
> > > also
> > > > > fair , with blond hair and blue eyes. My father's family who are
> > > entirely
> > > > > French, all the way back in our ancestry, are mostly dark haired
> and
> > > dark
> > > > > eyed, but he had one blond sister as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nancy Casillas
> > > > >
> > > > > Saint Clair, Michgian
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: "Armando"
> > > > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 7:22:39 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello Catherine,
> > > > >
> > > > > What used to be called Santa María de los Lagos is now called Lagos
> de
> > > > > Moreno in honor of the insurgent Pedro Moreno. He was one of the
> first
> > > > > people to fight for independence from Spain. It's shortened form is
> > > simply
> > > > > Lagos. A majority of my Mexican ancestors on my fathers side are
> from
> > > Lagos
> > > > > and I still have a lot of close relatives there. I have been doing
> a
> > > lot of
> > > > > research for the town so let me know if there is a family from
> Lagos
> > > you
> > > > > want info on. I might be able to help.
> > > > >
> > > > > As far the story of your ancestors being French it is probably from
> the
> > > > > myth
> > > > > of the lost legion of French soldiers from Napoleon's army during
> their
> > > > > occupation of Mexico causing the people of Los Altos to have blond
> > > hair,
> > > > > blue eyes, and white skin. This myth has become so widespread that
> > > people
> > > > > repeat it as if it were factual truth. The myth is so common it
> caused
> > > Dr.
> > > > > Mariano González Leal to write a chapter on disproving the myth in
> one
> > > of
> > > > > his Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia.
> > > > >
> > > > > Since I have started researching heavily in the past couple of
> years I
> > > have
> > > > > learned many of the families that intermarried were from central
> and
> > > > > northern Spain such as Lope Ruiz de Esparza was from Navarra, the
> > > González
> > > > > de Hermosillo were from Burgos, Diego Romo de Vivar was likely from
> > > Vivar
> > > > > in
> > > > > Burgos, Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar was from Burgos, Bartolome
> Martín
> > > del
> > > > > Campo was from Revilla de Campos, Palencia, Castilla y León,
> Rubalcaba
> > > was
> > > > > probably from that town of the same name in in Liérganes,
> Cantabría,
> > > Azuela
> > > > > is a surname that originated in Burgos, Luebana is a Basque word
> and
> > > > > surname, and so on. Nueva Galicia could as well have been named
> Nueva
> > > > > Castilla. I descend from almost all of those families, as many of
> us
> > > do,
> > > > > and
> > > > > it would explain why my grandfather's brother, and many other
> people of
> > > Los
> > > > > Altos, had blue eyes and light skin. There weren't any French that
> > > created
> > > > > a
> > > > > significant descendancy to be able to attribute the northern
> European
> > > > > features to them. As far as our the European side, we are
> descendants
> > > of
> > > > > Spaniards. As is most likely the case with other Jaliscience's such
> as
> > > Saul
> > > > > "El Canelo" Alvarez, Guillermo del Toro, and Javier "El Chicharo"
> > > Hernández
> > > > > Gutiérrez (the father of Chicharito), .
> > > > >
> > > > > Saludos,
> > > > > Armando
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 5:09 PM, wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Catherine Wood
> > > > > > Found my grandmothers bautismos, Hermelinda Colunga and her
> Padrinos
> > > > > were
> > > > > > Crecencio Colunga and Serapia Briones! Finally have confirmation
> from
> > > > > > Arturo's lead in earlier email...Thank you Arturo. I found her in
> San
> > > > > > Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas. The certificate says she was born in
> 1903,
> > > > > which
> > > > > > is far different than what the 1930 census shows for her age
> while
> > > > > living
> > > > > > in Santa Barbara, Chih., Now I can prove the following
> information:
> > > > > > 1. Vicente Colunga m. Guadelupe Rodriguez
> > > > > > 2. Juan Jose Colunga abt.1802 San Matias, Pinos m. 10 May 1826
> Maria
> > > > > > Dionicia Gallegos b. abt 1803,, daughter of Mariano Gallegos
> > > > > > and Maria Victoriana Gutierrez of Pinos 3. Jose Crecencio Colunga
> > > > > bpt
> > > > > > 23 Apr 1843 San Matias, Pinos m. Serapia Briones bpt 17 Nov 1844,
> > > > > daughter
> > > > > > of Gregorio Briones and
> > > > > > Maria Natividad Lugo (of Jose Leocadio Briones y Maria Josefa
> > > > > > Valentina Macias and of Guillermo Lugo y Maria Salas)
> > > > > > 4. Juan Briones Colunga bpt 2 Jan 1870 San Matias, Pinos m.
> Josefa
> > > > > > Hernandez-Calzada.
> > > > > > My mother and her cousins believe that one of these relatives was
> > > > > French.
> > > > > > Not sure which one as they all sound spanish to me. My great
> > > > > grandfather,,
> > > > > > Juan Briones Colunga was blond with blue eyes, but so are many
> > > spanish
> > > > > > people.They are not sure if it is one of these families or one on
> the
> > > > > > Hernandez-Calzada side (I have not researched much on that
> > > side....yet).
> > > > > > Back to searching images! Thanks again Nuestrosranchos! -- -- --
> --
> > > > > --
> > > > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > > >
> > > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > >
> > > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > > >
> > > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > >
> > > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > >
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

I've been researching Jerez, Zacatecas for abt 15 years now and have found only
2 marriage records where the men were from France and married local girls in the
1800's.  They stated they came with the French army but appeared to have taken
their Mexican wives somewhere else since I can't find children for them. My
grandparents also claimed French ancestry but there are none in my research. 
They did live in el Durasno, Jerez for 3 hundred years and when I went there the
majority of the rancho of 200 or so homes had green eyes.. just like my sister,
brother and me! I have to admit my grandfather and gr-grandfather had blue eyes
but their wives did not.
Genetics are a facinating thing!
Linda in B.C.

________________________________
From: Armando
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, July 7, 2011 10:44:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga

Hello Emilie,

Thanks for sharing your experience. It would take more than one ancestor for
your 2nd ggrandfather to have blue eyes. It's not just the Basque ancestor,
it's also the families he married into, which is why I had mentioned the
origins of many of the founding families of Los Altos, which many had been
in Zacatecas first or ended up there. There were many more that I don't even
know about or remember to mention.
There is a famous charro from Nochistlán, Zacatecas that is güero and has
blue eyes, I forget his name at the moment. I met another person from Jerez,
Zacatecas that has shown me photos of his grandfather with blue eyes. So,
there are people all over Zacatecas with blue eyes, or ancestors with blue
eyes. Unfortunately, for some people, their genealogy can't be traced until
we get a huge database of Y-DNA of 111 markers.
As far as the myth making it to Zacatecas, that is easily believable. It was
the easy answer for people in the past that didn't want to spend time
calculating the possibility, which would have shown it wasn't. The numbers,
dates, and locations don't match up. Apart from that genealogical research
back then was very difficult.

Saludos,
Armando

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:

>
> Armando -
>
> I guess the myth about the supposed French ancestry exists not only in
> Jalisco, but in Zacatecas as well.  When I went once to Mexico with my
> parents (in the 1960s) as we passed through a small village on our way to
> where my father was born (Jerez) we encountered many people in that small
> place who were dark-skinned but their eyes were strikingly blue.  I finally
> asked a gas station attendant why they had blue eyes, and he smiled shyly
> and said "the French were here".  I wanted to know more, but my father
> scolded me for asking such a rude (personal) question.  I wish I could
> remember the name of that town, but it was so long ago. My father himself
> said that his great-grandfather had blue eyes and was called "el Frances",
> but in records I found only "espanoles", no frances or other European.  He
> was descended from Basques who were with the Onate Party in the late 1500s
> who had settled in Pinos, Zacatecas.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 08:34:38 -0500
> > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
> >
> > Like I said, it is a most likely false story that stems from the myth of
> the
> > lost legion of French soldiers. It's only through these genealogical
> studies
> > that we'll get to the point where everyone fully understands it was only
> a
> > myth. Jalos (Jalostotiltán) is part of Los Altos and is the area included
> in
> > this myth.
> >
> > What are the names and dates of your ancestors from Jalos?
> >
> > Armando
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:06 AM, wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Interesting....with the family name I am researching Casillas Y
> Cabrera,
> > > the whole family keeps asking me where is the "French Connection",
> because
> > > our Grandfather and a few a unts were blond haired and blue-eyed from
> > > Jalostotitlan, and I keep telling them I have found nothing like that
> so
> > > far. No French connection, but any European country has folks who are
> also
> > > fair , with blond hair and blue eyes. My father's family who are
> entirely
> > > French, all the way back in our ancestry, are mostly dark haired and
> dark
> > > eyed, but he had one blond sister as well.
> > >
> > > Nancy Casillas
> > >
> > > Saint Clair, Michgian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > >
> > > From: "Armando"
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 7:22:39 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
> > >
> > > Hello Catherine,
> > >
> > > What used to be called Santa María de los Lagos is now called Lagos de
> > > Moreno in honor of the insurgent Pedro Moreno. He was one of the first
> > > people to fight for independence from Spain. It's shortened form is
> simply
> > > Lagos. A majority of my Mexican ancestors on my fathers side are from
> Lagos
> > > and I still have a lot of close relatives there. I have been doing a
> lot of
> > > research for the town so let me know if there is a family from Lagos
> you
> > > want info on. I might be able to help.
> > >
> > > As far the story of your ancestors being French it is probably from the
> > > myth
> > > of the lost legion of French soldiers from Napoleon's army during their
> > > occupation of Mexico causing the people of Los Altos to have blond
> hair,
> > > blue eyes, and white skin. This myth has become so widespread that
> people
> > > repeat it as if it were factual truth. The myth is so common it caused
> Dr.
> > > Mariano González Leal to write a chapter on disproving the myth in one
> of
> > > his Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia.
> > >
> > > Since I have started researching heavily in the past couple of years I
> have
> > > learned many of the families that intermarried were from central and
> > > northern Spain such as Lope Ruiz de Esparza was from Navarra, the
> González
> > > de Hermosillo were from Burgos, Diego Romo de Vivar was likely from
> Vivar
> > > in
> > > Burgos, Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar was from Burgos, Bartolome Martín
> del
> > > Campo was from Revilla de Campos, Palencia, Castilla y León, Rubalcaba
> was
> > > probably from that town of the same name in in Liérganes, Cantabría,
> Azuela
> > > is a surname that originated in Burgos, Luebana is a Basque word and
> > > surname, and so on. Nueva Galicia could as well have been named Nueva
> > > Castilla. I descend from almost all of those families, as many of us
> do,
> > > and
> > > it would explain why my grandfather's brother, and many other people of
> Los
> > > Altos, had blue eyes and light skin. There weren't any French that
> created
> > > a
> > > significant descendancy to be able to attribute the northern European
> > > features to them. As far as our the European side, we are descendants
> of
> > > Spaniards. As is most likely the case with other Jaliscience's such as
> Saul
> > > "El Canelo" Alvarez, Guillermo del Toro, and Javier "El Chicharo"
> Hernández
> > > Gutiérrez (the father of Chicharito), .
> > >
> > > Saludos,
> > > Armando
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 5:09 PM, wrote:
> > >
> > > > Catherine Wood
> > > > Found my grandmothers bautismos, Hermelinda Colunga and her Padrinos
> > > were
> > > > Crecencio Colunga and Serapia Briones! Finally have confirmation from
> > > > Arturo's lead in earlier email...Thank you Arturo. I found her in San
> > > > Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas. The certificate says she was born in 1903,
> > > which
> > > > is far different than what the 1930 census shows for her age while
> > > living
> > > > in Santa Barbara, Chih., Now I can prove the following information:
> > > > 1. Vicente Colunga m. Guadelupe Rodriguez
> > > > 2. Juan Jose Colunga abt.1802 San Matias, Pinos m. 10 May 1826 Maria
> > > > Dionicia Gallegos b. abt 1803,, daughter of Mariano Gallegos
> > > > and Maria Victoriana Gutierrez of Pinos 3. Jose Crecencio Colunga
> > > bpt
> > > > 23 Apr 1843 San Matias, Pinos m. Serapia Briones bpt 17 Nov 1844,
> > > daughter
> > > > of Gregorio Briones and
> > > > Maria Natividad Lugo (of Jose Leocadio Briones y Maria Josefa
> > > > Valentina Macias and of Guillermo Lugo y Maria Salas)
> > > > 4. Juan Briones Colunga bpt 2 Jan 1870 San Matias, Pinos m. Josefa
> > > > Hernandez-Calzada.
> > > > My mother and her cousins believe that one of these relatives was
> > > French.
> > > > Not sure which one as they all sound spanish to me. My great
> > > grandfather,,
> > > > Juan Briones Colunga was blond with blue eyes, but so are many
> spanish
> > > > people.They are not sure if it is one of these families or one on the
> > > > Hernandez-Calzada side (I have not researched much on that
> side....yet).
> > > > Back to searching images! Thanks again Nuestrosranchos! -- -- -- --
> > > --
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Erlinda,

It's another nail in the coffin of the French myth causing blue eyes in
Jalisco and Zacatecas. Some day it will be laid to rest forever. Thank you
for sharing.

Armando

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Erlinda Castanon-Long <
longsjourney@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I've been researching Jerez, Zacatecas for abt 15 years now and have found
> only
> 2 marriage records where the men were from France and married local girls
> in the
> 1800's. They stated they came with the French army but appeared to have
> taken
> their Mexican wives somewhere else since I can't find children for them. My
> grandparents also claimed French ancestry but there are none in my
> research.
> They did live in el Durasno, Jerez for 3 hundred years and when I went
> there the
> majority of the rancho of 200 or so homes had green eyes.. just like my
> sister,
> brother and me! I have to admit my grandfather and gr-grandfather had blue
> eyes
> but their wives did not.
> Genetics are a facinating thing!
> Linda in B.C.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Armando
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thu, July 7, 2011 10:44:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
>
> Hello Emilie,
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience. It would take more than one ancestor
> for
> your 2nd ggrandfather to have blue eyes. It's not just the Basque ancestor,
> it's also the families he married into, which is why I had mentioned the
> origins of many of the founding families of Los Altos, which many had been
> in Zacatecas first or ended up there. There were many more that I don't
> even
> know about or remember to mention.
> There is a famous charro from Nochistlán, Zacatecas that is güero and has
> blue eyes, I forget his name at the moment. I met another person from
> Jerez,
> Zacatecas that has shown me photos of his grandfather with blue eyes. So,
> there are people all over Zacatecas with blue eyes, or ancestors with blue
> eyes. Unfortunately, for some people, their genealogy can't be traced until
> we get a huge database of Y-DNA of 111 markers.
> As far as the myth making it to Zacatecas, that is easily believable. It
> was
> the easy answer for people in the past that didn't want to spend time
> calculating the possibility, which would have shown it wasn't. The numbers,
> dates, and locations don't match up. Apart from that genealogical research
> back then was very difficult.
>
> Saludos,
> Armando
>
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Emilie Garcia
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Armando -
> >
> > I guess the myth about the supposed French ancestry exists not only in
> > Jalisco, but in Zacatecas as well. When I went once to Mexico with my
> > parents (in the 1960s) as we passed through a small village on our way to
> > where my father was born (Jerez) we encountered many people in that small
> > place who were dark-skinned but their eyes were strikingly blue. I
> finally
> > asked a gas station attendant why they had blue eyes, and he smiled shyly
> > and said "the French were here". I wanted to know more, but my father
> > scolded me for asking such a rude (personal) question. I wish I could
> > remember the name of that town, but it was so long ago. My father himself
> > said that his great-grandfather had blue eyes and was called "el
> Frances",
> > but in records I found only "espanoles", no frances or other European.
> He
> > was descended from Basques who were with the Onate Party in the late
> 1500s
> > who had settled in Pinos, Zacatecas.
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> >
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 08:34:38 -0500
> > > From: fandemma@gmail.com
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
> > >
> > > Like I said, it is a most likely false story that stems from the myth
> of
> > the
> > > lost legion of French soldiers. It's only through these genealogical
> > studies
> > > that we'll get to the point where everyone fully understands it was
> only
> > a
> > > myth. Jalos (Jalostotiltán) is part of Los Altos and is the area
> included
> > in
> > > this myth.
> > >
> > > What are the names and dates of your ancestors from Jalos?
> > >
> > > Armando
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:06 AM, wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Interesting....with the family name I am researching Casillas Y
> > Cabrera,
> > > > the whole family keeps asking me where is the "French Connection",
> > because
> > > > our Grandfather and a few a unts were blond haired and blue-eyed from
> > > > Jalostotitlan, and I keep telling them I have found nothing like that
> > so
> > > > far. No French connection, but any European country has folks who are
> > also
> > > > fair , with blond hair and blue eyes. My father's family who are
> > entirely
> > > > French, all the way back in our ancestry, are mostly dark haired and
> > dark
> > > > eyed, but he had one blond sister as well.
> > > >
> > > > Nancy Casillas
> > > >
> > > > Saint Clair, Michgian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: "Armando"
> > > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 7:22:39 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Briones-Colunga
> > > >
> > > > Hello Catherine,
> > > >
> > > > What used to be called Santa María de los Lagos is now called Lagos
> de
> > > > Moreno in honor of the insurgent Pedro Moreno. He was one of the
> first
> > > > people to fight for independence from Spain. It's shortened form is
> > simply
> > > > Lagos. A majority of my Mexican ancestors on my fathers side are from
> > Lagos
> > > > and I still have a lot of close relatives there. I have been doing a
> > lot of
> > > > research for the town so let me know if there is a family from Lagos
> > you
> > > > want info on. I might be able to help.
> > > >
> > > > As far the story of your ancestors being French it is probably from
> the
> > > > myth
> > > > of the lost legion of French soldiers from Napoleon's army during
> their
> > > > occupation of Mexico causing the people of Los Altos to have blond
> > hair,
> > > > blue eyes, and white skin. This myth has become so widespread that
> > people
> > > > repeat it as if it were factual truth. The myth is so common it
> caused
> > Dr.
> > > > Mariano González Leal to write a chapter on disproving the myth in
> one
> > of
> > > > his Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia.
> > > >
> > > > Since I have started researching heavily in the past couple of years
> I
> > have
> > > > learned many of the families that intermarried were from central and
> > > > northern Spain such as Lope Ruiz de Esparza was from Navarra, the
> > González
> > > > de Hermosillo were from Burgos, Diego Romo de Vivar was likely from
> > Vivar
> > > > in
> > > > Burgos, Diego de Villaseñor y Tovar was from Burgos, Bartolome Martín
> > del
> > > > Campo was from Revilla de Campos, Palencia, Castilla y León,
> Rubalcaba
> > was
> > > > probably from that town of the same name in in Liérganes, Cantabría,
> > Azuela
> > > > is a surname that originated in Burgos, Luebana is a Basque word and
> > > > surname, and so on. Nueva Galicia could as well have been named Nueva
> > > > Castilla. I descend from almost all of those families, as many of us
> > do,
> > > > and
> > > > it would explain why my grandfather's brother, and many other people
> of
> > Los
> > > > Altos, had blue eyes and light skin. There weren't any French that
> > created
> > > > a
> > > > significant descendancy to be able to attribute the northern European
> > > > features to them. As far as our the European side, we are descendants
> > of
> > > > Spaniards. As is most likely the case with other Jaliscience's such
> as
> > Saul
> > > > "El Canelo" Alvarez, Guillermo del Toro, and Javier "El Chicharo"
> > Hernández
> > > > Gutiérrez (the father of Chicharito), .
> > > >
> > > > Saludos,
> > > > Armando
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 5:09 PM, wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Catherine Wood
> > > > > Found my grandmothers bautismos, Hermelinda Colunga and her
> Padrinos
> > > > were
> > > > > Crecencio Colunga and Serapia Briones! Finally have confirmation
> from
> > > > > Arturo's lead in earlier email...Thank you Arturo. I found her in
> San
> > > > > Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas. The certificate says she was born in
> 1903,
> > > > which
> > > > > is far different than what the 1930 census shows for her age while
> > > > living
> > > > > in Santa Barbara, Chih., Now I can prove the following information:
> > > > > 1. Vicente Colunga m. Guadelupe Rodriguez
> > > > > 2. Juan Jose Colunga abt.1802 San Matias, Pinos m. 10 May 1826
> Maria
> > > > > Dionicia Gallegos b. abt 1803,, daughter of Mariano Gallegos
> > > > > and Maria Victoriana Gutierrez of Pinos 3. Jose Crecencio Colunga
> > > > bpt
> > > > > 23 Apr 1843 San Matias, Pinos m. Serapia Briones bpt 17 Nov 1844,
> > > > daughter
> > > > > of Gregorio Briones and
> > > > > Maria Natividad Lugo (of Jose Leocadio Briones y Maria Josefa
> > > > > Valentina Macias and of Guillermo Lugo y Maria Salas)
> > > > > 4. Juan Briones Colunga bpt 2 Jan 1870 San Matias, Pinos m. Josefa
> > > > > Hernandez-Calzada.
> > > > > My mother and her cousins believe that one of these relatives was
> > > > French.
> > > > > Not sure which one as they all sound spanish to me. My great
> > > > grandfather,,
> > > > > Juan Briones Colunga was blond with blue eyes, but so are many
> > spanish
> > > > > people.They are not sure if it is one of these families or one on
> the
> > > > > Hernandez-Calzada side (I have not researched much on that
> > side....yet).
> > > > > Back to searching images! Thanks again Nuestrosranchos! -- -- -- --
> > > > --
> > > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > > >
> > > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > > research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
> > > > >
> > > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > >
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >

 
I don't know if this is the same family but since Fresnillo is so close to Jerez and this Colunga family is from Guanajuato I thought I'd submit it to you.  My records are posted on Rootsweb.com so you may want to check there for anything that might be of interest to you on the Colunga family in my records.
 
good luck in your search, Linda in Everett Wa.
 

#845 baptism 29 July 1888 in Jerez
 Antonia Colunga born in Jerez 24 July 1888 6pm
parents: Carlos Colunga and Juana Avila
pat grn: Andres and Severiana Lopez
mat grn: Barbaro and Agapita Caldera
pad: Cenovio Gonsales and Francisca Saldivar
source: 0439862 Jerez baptism
 

  MARIA DE LAS NIEVEZ FRANCISCA COLUNGA LOPEZ Pedigree
  Female
  Christening:  06 AUG 1862   Santa Fe, Guanajuato, Guanajuato, Mexico
  Father:  ANDRES COLUNGA  Family
  Mother:  SEVERIANA LOPEZ    
  Source Information:
  Batch No.:  Dates:  Source Call No.:  Type:  Printout Call No.:  Type: 
  K608057  1862 - 1864  0668852   Film  NONE   
 

--- On Thu, 1/8/09, cwood1411 wrote:

From: cwood1411
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Calzada/Briones/Colunga in Fresnillo, Zacatecas
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 2:48 AM

Hello Everyone,
Just registerd for the site and have spent a couple of days reviewing the
lists. So excited about the possibility of finding my mothers family! Have spent
many years researching my father's side, but didn't have much (and still
don't) on my mom's side. So here goes:

Looking for the Calzada-Briones-Colunga family possibly in Fresnillo. They
seemed to have moved quite a bit, but found the 1930 Mexico census that listed
my grandmother and her parents in Santa Barbara, CHI, MX. The census listed my
great grandparents as having been born in Zacatecas, no city listed. Just
yesterday, I learned that they may have been from or lived in Fresnillo,
Zacatecas, as this was the birth place of one of their children but not
necessarily the city where my great grand parents were born, but it's a
starting point! My mother's memory is not so good but this is the info I
have so far and hoping to make a connection:

Juan Briones-Colunga b. abt 1884 Zacatecas
m. Josefa Calzada b. abt 1887 Zacatecas
ch: 1. Filiberto/Alberto Colunga b. 1900 Fresnillo, Zacatecas d. 1989, buried
Parral Cemetery, CHI, MX
m. Isiidra (Ciri) L. Terrazas
ch: Abigail, Savina, Genaro, Benedicto, Hiliberto, Concepcion, Ester
2. Federico Colunga b. abt 1910 CHI
m. Justina Unknown
3. Refugia Colunga b. est 1913 4. Miguel Colunga b. abt 1912
5. Luis Colunga b. abt 1914
6. Erlinda/Hermelinda Colunga b. abt 1916 (my grandmother) d. abt 1940/41
m. Samuel Reyes-Marquez
ch: 2 daughters
7. Rebeca Colunga b. abt 1918
m. Jesus Menarrez
8. Ambrosio Colunga b. abt 1923 d. abt 1941/42
9. Salvador 'Chava' Colunga b. abt 1926

> From memory, my mother and her cousin say that an Enrique Colunga was
either a son of Juan or a brother of Juan Colunga. Enrique was a governor of
Guanajuato, very short term. Family lore says that Juan and son, Filiberto, rode
with Pancho Villa and Filiberto was buried in the same cemetery as Pancho Villa.

Juan Colunga and sons were wealthy entreprenuers holding occupations as
'Zapatero's', (shoemakers?) and they owned shoe stores. I have one
family picture of my great grandparents and some of their children.

My grandparents, Hermelinda and Samuel were divorced with two daughters. Samuel
Marquez removed to El Paso, TX. Hermelinda died about one year after my mother
was born and the two sisters were separated. They have only met once since then
(1979). Last known, my Aunt was in Mexico City, but attempts to reach her have
been unsuccesful. My grandfather made several attempts to regain custody of his
two daughters, but the maternal uncles would run him out of town at each
attempt. My grandfather was finally able to get my mother (long story about how
this was done) when she was 15 and brought her to the US. He was not able to
find her sister.

Any help on this family would be greatly appreciated.
Cathy

Many people with the last name Briones are found in the Zacatecas, San Luis Potosi, and Jalisco. My Briones line originates in San Luis Potosi.> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 09:49:13 -0800> From: longsjourney@yahoo.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Calzada/Briones/Colunga in Fresnillo, Zacatecas> > > I don't know if this is the same family but since Fresnillo is so close to Jerez and this Colunga family is from Guanajuato I thought I'd submit it to you. My records are posted on Rootsweb.com so you may want to check there for anything that might be of interest to you on the Colunga family in my records.> > good luck in your search, Linda in Everett Wa.> > > #845 baptism 29 July 1888 in Jerez> Antonia Colunga born in Jerez 24 July 1888 6pm> parents: Carlos Colunga and Juana Avila> pat grn: Andres and Severiana Lopez> mat grn: Barbaro and Agapita Caldera> pad: Cenovio Gonsales and Francisca Saldivar> source: 0439862 Jerez baptism> > > MARIA DE LAS NIEVEZ FRANCISCA COLUNGA LOPEZ Pedigree > Female > Christening: 06 AUG 1862 Santa Fe, Guanajuato, Guanajuato, Mexico > Father: ANDRES COLUNGA Family > Mother: SEVERIANA LOPEZ > Source Information: > Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type: > K608057 1862 - 1864 0668852 Film NONE > > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, cwood1411 wrote:> > From: cwood1411 > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Calzada/Briones/Colunga in Fresnillo, Zacatecas> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 2:48 AM> > Hello Everyone,> Just registerd for the site and have spent a couple of days reviewing the> lists. So excited about the possibility of finding my mothers family! Have spent> many years researching my father's side, but didn't have much (and still> don't) on my mom's side. So here goes:> > Looking for the Calzada-Briones-Colunga family possibly in Fresnillo. They> seemed to have moved quite a bit, but found the 1930 Mexico census that listed> my grandmother and her parents in Santa Barbara, CHI, MX. The census listed my> great grandparents as having been born in Zacatecas, no city listed. Just> yesterday, I learned that they may have been from or lived in Fresnillo,> Zacatecas, as this was the birth place of one of their children but not> necessarily the city where my great grand parents were born, but it's a> starting point! My mother's memory is not so good but this is the info I> have so far and hoping to make a connection:> > Juan Briones-Colunga b. abt 1884 Zacatecas> m. Josefa Calzada b. abt 1887 Zacatecas> ch: 1. Filiberto/Alberto Colunga b. 1900 Fresnillo, Zacatecas d. 1989, buried> Parral Cemetery, CHI, MX> m. Isiidra (Ciri) L. Terrazas> ch: Abigail, Savina, Genaro, Benedicto, Hiliberto, Concepcion, Ester> 2. Federico Colunga b. abt 1910 CHI> m. Justina Unknown> 3. Refugia Colunga b. est 1913 4. Miguel Colunga b. abt 1912> 5. Luis Colunga b. abt 1914> 6. Erlinda/Hermelinda Colunga b. abt 1916 (my grandmother) d. abt 1940/41> m. Samuel Reyes-Marquez> ch: 2 daughters> 7. Rebeca Colunga b. abt 1918> m. Jesus Menarrez> 8. Ambrosio Colunga b. abt 1923 d. abt 1941/42> 9. Salvador 'Chava' Colunga b. abt 1926> > > From memory, my mother and her cousin say that an Enrique Colunga was> either a son of Juan or a brother of Juan Colunga. Enrique was a governor of> Guanajuato, very short term. Family lore says that Juan and son, Filiberto, rode> with Pancho Villa and Filiberto was buried in the same cemetery as Pancho Villa.> > Juan Colunga and sons were wealthy entreprenuers holding occupations as> 'Zapatero's', (shoemakers?) and they owned shoe stores. I have one> family picture of my great grandparents and some of their children.> > My grandparents, Hermelinda and Samuel were divorced with two daughters. Samuel> Marquez removed to El Paso, TX. Hermelinda died about one year after my mother> was born and the two sisters were separated. They have only met once since then> (1979). Last known, my Aunt was in Mexico City, but attempts to reach her have> been unsuccesful. My grandfather made several attempts to regain custody of his> two daughters, but the maternal uncles would run him out of town at each> attempt. My grandfather was finally able to get my mother (long story about how> this was done) when she was 15 and brought her to the US. He was not able to> find her sister.> > Any help on this family would be greatly appreciated.> Cathy> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org&gt; > > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
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This response is somewhat late (6 years) but I just noticed it. Anyway, I wanted to comment on the record that Linda presented in response to your query. The padrinos are Cenobio Gonzalez and Francisca Saldivar, who are my paternal great-grandparents. Cenobio was also listed in a record (maybe this one?) as a zapatero. Lastly, my grandmother, their daughter, has a corrected baptismal record because rather than listing her in the margin with her proper surname Gonzalez, it was written as Calzada. isn't that interesting? The families were probably well acquainted. Sincerely, Marge Vallazza

Cathy:

I believe this is your great-grandfather... the name is so unique, it would be difficult for this to be a coincidence. The estimated birthdates that you have for them appear to be a little too late. It is improbable (but not impossible) that they had a child when the father was 16 and the mother 13... then again the mother was having children until 1926 so she could not have been born before 1880 or so...

JUAN BRIONES COLUNGA
Male
Christening: 20 JUN 1862 Cienega De Mata, Ojuelos, Jalisco, Mexico
Parents:
Father: MANUEL BRIONES Family
Mother: TOMAZA COLUNGA
Source Information:
Batch No.: C607048
Dates: 1853 - 1862
Source Call No.:0640159 Film

This is a possible hit for your great-grandmother though the name is very common and the birthdate appears to be far too early... There are really no CALZADA in Ojuelos, Jalisco.

JOSEFA CALZADA NERI
Female
Christening: 20 MAR 1873 Fresnillo De Gonzalez Echeverria, Zacatecas, Mexico
Parents:
Father: PABLO CALZADA Family
Mother: PONCIANA NERI
Source Information
Batch No.:K600823 Film 0439822

Thanks for the info, it very well could be them. I guestimated the year of birth based on the 1930 Mexico census in Santa Barbara and the place of birth for both was Zacatecas... And as we all know the census info can be incorrect in some cases. This is a good lead for me to follow. Thank you again for responding.

Catherine Wood

Welcome to the group Cathy.

Quick question for you. In reference to Juan Briones-Colunga. Is his surname
Briones or Colunga? At first glance I assumed that Briones was his father's
surname and Colunga was his mothers surname, which is pretty standard in
hispanic names. However, your family seems to have carried on with the
Colunga name instead.

-Angelina-

Hello Angelia,

Thank you for responding. I always wondered about the surnames and which one was the fathers vs. mothers surnames. I didn't know that it was standard to list the fathers name first and mothers surname second. I always assumed Briones was his mothers name and Colunga the father's surname. This is an interesting discovery. Thank you. Now a question or two for you if you would be so kind:

Josefa Calzada Colunga....would her mother's name be Calzada or fathers surname? And do you know what the history is behind the hyphenated names?

Catherine Wood

Hi Cathy,

I would say that in the case of Josefa Calzada Colunga, Calzada is the
father's surname and Colunga is the mother's surname (father first, mother
last). However, I have to admit that names are tricky. If you are lucky to
go back far enough in your research you will find that beyond a certain
point there was no "standard" for surnames, it was not uncommon for full
siblings to use different surnames,that of a grandparent instead of either
parent's name.

As far as hyphenated names ... Maybe someone else in the group knows about
them.

Good luck,
-Angelina-

Welcome to the group Cathy! Hi, im Daniel Camino, aka Daniel Méndez...Angelina is correct there was no rule for surnames I have a family much earlier that of 7 siblings, that all but three used different last names. this could be for many reasons, one to honor a ancestor or grandparent, like Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza eventhough her father was Tiscareño de Molina she took on her mother's name and really let go her father's. I think it was her daughter who was also Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza III, (someone correct me). nother reason was "family importance" I've learned that some were more "prominant than others" dont know why or how. I do know that the Ruiz de Velasco were one of them (in Ayo El Chico who were relatives of the Viceroy Velasco, not sure how but assuming a 2nd cousin or so. I have gone back to 1580 or so back to Mexico City. Pedro Ruiz de Velasco y Haro married Ana Núñez y Bohórrquez and had Pedro Ruiz de Velasco born in 1618 in D.F. They eventually moved to Los Altos where the other children were born. I did find a Pedro Ruiz de Velasco in Valladolid Spain married 1605 so around the same time frame but his wife is Ana Valadés so prob not them but its still worth ordering and see if it is them or not. Anyway...Ruiz de Velasco any time a daughter of this family all the way up to 1720 or so the children of her would always take her name and not the fathers except when the name of son pertains to the man
s side of the family, so you can have a REALLY long maternal name of Velascos! I get my Ruiz de Velasco
with my gg grandmother María Jesús Ruiz de Velasco born 1883 in Calvillo, Ags. Compound surnames or what you said hypenated (usually there was no hyphen, they just added that on family search to note that the surname goes together, we as Hispanics know that the surname goes together so I disregard the hyphen. This compound surname came about when two (possibly rival families) as I see it "went at it" boom boom is what I refer it to couldnt decide which surname to use or one side mother or father would not let their side of the house be forgotten and wanted their last name to continue. This is different than the rest of Europe, I think this is more common for Spaniards and Portguese. An example would be my Ornellas y Hurtado de Mendoza or the rival branch the Gómez de Mendoza, Álvaro do Ornellas, portuguese married Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza II her grandchildren used Ornellas Mendoza (same thing as Ornellas y Hurtado de Mendoza just shorter). I noticed this when I found Benito de Serrano married to
Juana Alvina Ornellas y Mendoza I had no idea what the last name would lead to this was when I was still a beginner! ANYWAY what would happen at the end the two sides of the family would find a away to combine both last names (it had to sound good, I think, it is a joke that Ive been told) and combine to make a new name! I hope this helps! -Daniel Méndez del Camino
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