Converso

Hola Members, I just wondered if any one heard that Ana de La Mota y Vera (married to un Diego Padilla) ancestors were of Jewish origin.
Ronnie Reynoso
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Comment

I havent heard this before! I always seen the Padillas as españoles, who is Gerónimo Ruiz de la Mota? Ana's father? -Daniel

Converso

Comment

To Daniel: re: Geronimo Ruiz de la Mota

Geronimo Ruiz de la Mota came from Burgos - he was one of Cortez's
captains. I believe he founded Chapa de Mota - anyway I have no idea
if he is in any way related to Ana de la Mota who married Diego
Padilla. I've followed the Padilla line but haven't pursued the Mota
line yet.

My comment was simply that this was the only time I've came across the
title of "converso" put on any Mota family.

-Angelina-

Converso

Comment

Hello Daniel, is good to ear something of you. were you in vacation? I send you some question weeks ago but I didn´t received answer.
I have some question for you or anyone, that can help me, I was making some investigation and, I found that my GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGM for my father side was Lorenza De Ruiz Esparza, how was daughter of Lope II Ruiz, Señor De Esparza, and Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay.
The interesting thing is that Ana Francisca is daughter of Martin Navarro De Gabay and Petronila de Moctezuma who was born in Nochistlan, Zac. about 1550. Do you know if this Petronila have some relation with Moctezuma II?

Best regards
Cristobal Villalobos
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de mendezdelcamino
Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 05:20 a.m.
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Converso

I havent heard this before! I always seen the Padillas as españoles, who is Gerónimo Ruiz de la Mota? Ana's father? -Daniel

Martin Navarro

Comment

Cristobal,

Who is this Martin Navarro who married Petronilla Moctezuma and what time period are we talking about?

Thanks,

Esther
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from : --------------

Hello Daniel, is good to ear something of you. were you in vacation? I send you
> some question weeks ago but I didn´t received answer. I have some question for you or anyone, that can help me, I was making some investigation and, I found that my GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGM for my father side was Lorenza De Ruiz Esparza, how was daughter of Lope II Ruiz, Señor De Esparza,
> and Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay. The interesting thing is that Ana Francisca is daughter of Martin Navarro De Gabay and Petronila de Moctezuma who was born in Nochistlan, Zac. about 1550. Do
> you know if this Petronila have some relation with Moctezuma II?
>
> Best regards
> Cristobal Villalobos
> -----Mensaje original----- De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de mendezdelcamino
> Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 05:20 a.m.
> Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Converso
>
>
> I havent heard this before! I always seen the Padillas as españoles, who is
> Gerónimo Ruiz de la Mota? Ana's father? -Daniel

Martin Navarro

Comment

Esther,
The information that I have, is that Martin Navarro De Gabay "Hidalgo Español", that was born in Pamplona, Navarra, Spain about 1550.They had 4 sons; Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay(1570, wife of Lope II Ruiz, Señor de Esparaza, married in 1595 en Nochistlan), Maria Gabay De Moctezuma( about 1580), Cristobal Navarro De Gabay (About 1580), and Juana Navarro De Gabay(about 1585)
And Petronila De Moctezuma have the aditional title "Princesa Imperial De México"
That is all the information that I have.
Best regards
Cristobal Villalobos

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de eaherold@att.net
Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 07:48 p.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martin Navarro

Cristobal,

Who is this Martin Navarro who married Petronilla Moctezuma and what time period are we talking about?

Thanks,

Esther
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from : --------------

Converso

Comment

Hi Cristobal,

I too have the Moctezuma connection. A few of us on Nuestros Ranchos do :-)

Petronila was Leonor Moctezuma (b abt 1525 Mexico City) and Diego Arias de Sotelo's (b abt 1518 Spain; m abt 1539) daughter. Leonor was Isabel (Ichcaxochitl) Moctezuma (b 6/11/1509 Mexico; d 12/9/1550) and Hernan Cortez's (b 1485; d 12/2/1547) daughter. Isabel was Motecuhzoma Xocoyotzin (b 1466; d 6/30/1520) and Tecalco's (DOB unk) daughter... so yes, there is not only a connection to Moctezuma but also Hernan Cortez. Google the story, it is very interesting.

Saludos primo!

Converso

Comment

Hi Sandra,
Thank a lot for all the information, I am going to review the Google the
story. For get facts and dates.
Saludos prima.......

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Sandra
Gomez Mendoza
Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 08:54 p.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Converso

Hi Cristobal,

I too have the Moctezuma connection. A few of us on Nuestros Ranchos do :-)

Petronila was Leonor Moctezuma (b abt 1525 Mexico City) and Diego Arias de
Sotelo's (b abt 1518 Spain; m abt 1539) daughter. Leonor was Isabel
(Ichcaxochitl) Moctezuma (b 6/11/1509 Mexico; d 12/9/1550) and Hernan
Cortez's (b 1485; d 12/2/1547) daughter. Isabel was Motecuhzoma Xocoyotzin
(b 1466; d 6/30/1520) and Tecalco's (DOB unk) daughter... so yes, there is
not only a connection to Moctezuma but also Hernan Cortez. Google the
story, it is very interesting.

Saludos primo!

Martin Navarro

Comment

Cristobal,
Can you tell me which is the actual source for the description of Martin Navarro de Gabay as "Hidalgo Español" from Pamplona and for Petronila de Moctezuma as "Princesa Imperial de México"? Do you or anyone in the group has seen a copy of their marriage record?

Thanks

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: jcvillalo@prodigy.net.mx
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 8:50:53 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martin Navarro

Cristobal,

Who is this Martin Navarro who married Petronilla Moctezuma and what time period are we talking about?

Thanks,

Esther
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from : --------------

Martin Navarro

Comment

Hello All its, Daniel! Anyway I can say something about this topic, Martín is stated as Hidalgo if im correct
in the book "Nochistlán" is it liñajes; I just know that part of the name not sure extct the name of it, but think
someone here owns it. Petronila is also know to be grandaughter or gret grandaught of the Aztec emperor
whether which line you believe is correct the Valderrama or Cortés line? I accpet the Cortés line to be
more accuarte. the book talks about the couple first spanish family of Nochistlán or back then it was
called Guadalajara de Nochistlán. Most spanish families tended to be hidalgos according to the research weve
done, hidalgos are just the lower class of the nobility often friends of the King but not peers. -Daniel
P.S. a great example would be HErmosillo family as a friend and Hidalgo but Esparza were titled and therfore
a peer.
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Martin Navarro

Comment

hi cristobal everyone my fathers line goes to the montezuma line from what i can tell and still have some brickwalls as i cant find records pertaining to other lines of my fathers families. this is what i haves

Maquitzin
18th great-grandmother
Don Diego Tlilpotonqui
Son of Maquitzin
Acatlan (1485 - 1525)
Daughter of Don Diego Tlilpotonqui
Marina Leonor Montezuma (1510 - 1562)
Daughter of Acatlan
Leonor Valderrama De Montezuma (1525 - 1562)
Daughter of Marina Leonor Montezuma
Petronila Sotelo De Montezuma (1552 - 1651)
Daughter of Leonor Valderrama De Montezuma
Juana Navarro (1542 - )
Daughter of Petronila Sotelo De Montezuma
Magdalena De Isla De Lavazzari (1545 - )
Daughter of Juana Navarro
Concepcion Gonzalez Martinez (1600 - )
Daughter of Magdalena De Isla De Lavazzari
Diego Delgadillo
Son of Concepcion Gonzalez Martinez
Juan Delgadillo
Son of Diego Delgadillo
Jose Regino Delgadillo (1730 - )
Son of Juan Delgadillo
Maria Rosalia Barthola Delgadillo (1765 - )
Daughter of Jose Regino Delgadillo
Rafael Martinez
Son of Maria Rosalia Barthola Delgadillo
Mamerto Martinez
Son of Rafael Martinez
Serapio Martinez
Son of Mamerto Martinez
Jose Maria Martinez ( - 1909)
Son of Serapio Martinez
Cresencio Martinez (1893 - 1974)
Son of Jose Maria Martinez
John Coronado Martinez (1931 - 1994)
Son of Cresencio Martinez
Johnny Stephen Martinez (1950 - 2018)
Son of John Coronado Martinez
Stephanie Martinez
You are the child of Johnny Stephen Martinez
still trying to find dates etc as records are vague in some places

re:conversos

Comment

some of my families were sephardic jewish or crypto jews as they called them back them. i came across some newspapers clippings revolving the caravals and other related families. on december 8, 1596 the family was paraded through the streets and then executed to their death by burning them at the stake. it was also noted that one of my grandfathers back then had thrown himself to his death through a window during the inquisitions. petronila montezuma is my 13th great grandmother who had married martin navarro de gabay in my records that i haves.

Martin Navarro

Comment

what were the name of the sons?
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from : --------------

> Esther, The information that I have, is that Martin Navarro De Gabay "Hidalgo Español", that was born in Pamplona, Navarra, Spain about 1550.They had 4 sons; Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay(1570, wife of Lope II Ruiz, Señor de Esparaza, married in 1595 en Nochistlan), Maria Gabay De Moctezuma( about 1580), Cristobal
> Navarro De Gabay (About 1580), and Juana Navarro De Gabay(about 1585) And Petronila De Moctezuma have the aditional title "Princesa Imperial De
> México"
> That is all the information that I have.
> Best regards
> Cristobal Villalobos
>
> -----Mensaje original----- De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de
> eaherold@att.net
> Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 07:48 p.m.
> Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martin Navarro
>
> Cristobal,
> Who is this Martin Navarro who married Petronilla Moctezuma and what time period
> are we talking about?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Esther
> --
> Esther A. Herold
>
> -------------- Original message from : --------------
>
> Hello Daniel, is good to ear something of you. were you in vacation? I send you
> > some question weeks ago but I didn´t received answer. I have some question
> for you or anyone, that can help me, I was making some investigation and, I
> found that my GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGM for my father side was Lorenza De Ruiz Esparza,
> how was daughter of Lope II Ruiz, Señor De Esparza,
> > and Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay. The interesting thing is that Ana
> Francisca is daughter of Martin Navarro De Gabay and Petronila de Moctezuma who
> was born in Nochistlan, Zac. about 1550. Do
> > you know if this Petronila have some relation with Moctezuma II?
> >
> > Best regards
> > Cristobal Villalobos
> > -----Mensaje original----- De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de
> mendezdelcamino
> > Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 05:20 a.m.
> > Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Converso
> >
> >
> > I havent heard this before! I always seen the Padillas as españoles, who is
> > Gerónimo Ruiz de la Mota? Ana's father? -Daniel
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Converso

Comment

In reference to you question about Ana de La Mota being of Jewish
origin.....I found a book on Google, "Conquest" by Hugh Thomas, that makes
reference to Geronimo Ruiz de la Mota as being from a Converso family. That
is all I can tell you. Ana and Diego are in my family tree, I don't recall
coming across any other reference to Conversos.

-Angelina Markle-

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