My husband, who is descended from Altenos (the Albas, Cervantes, Ruis de Esparza, Rubalcabas, etc.) has no illusions about his ancestry either in Mexico or going back to Spain.

He just showed me this paragraph from one of his books about the admixture of cultures in Spain over the centuries: "Christian families with more pedigree than cash, or with a prudent respect for ability, accepted them [Jews] in marriage.. In this way the Spanish people, especially the upper classes, received a substantial infusion of Jewish blood. Ferdinand the Catholic and Torquemada the Inquisitor had Jews in their ancestry. Pope Paul IV, at war with Phillip II, called him and the Spanish the "worthless seed of the Jews and Moors".

I know that the rest of Europe looked askance at Spaniards and Portuguese as not being Europeans. Wasn't there a dust-up about allowing them into the EU?

So, it seems to me that the Spaniards are as mongrel a race as mestizos are now considered, and they always were. I totally agree with this poster's statement "we should always hold the truth above all else, not make the truth fit our agenda or as we wish to see it". Neither Spaniards in the Old World or the New World were pure anything.

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:00:30 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] R1b and Altenos ?
>
> "Yes, the Casillas family descendant from Martin Casillas relative of Viceroy Mendoza is
> also R1b1b2 Celtic-p Frisian...the majority of families are Celtic..."
>
> With all due respect,this is a ridiculous statement. If you are talking about a group of families that is one thing, but to say that the majority of the inhabitants of Los Altos are "Celtic" is laughable.
>
> First of all, the lable "Celtic" applies too a broad group of Ancient Peoples of who the only truly "Celtic" peoples were the Gauls of France and inhabitants of what is now Centeral Europe, these groups gave rise to the Hallstadt and La Tene Celtic "culture" that spread through out Europe. The R1b marker is called the "Atlantic Model haplotype" meaning it is most common in the Atlantic seaboard,from Spain and the British Isles, but also North Africa. There is a very recent DNA study conducted for the Discovery channel special on King Tut and the preliminary results look like Tut may also be R1b, this means that the R1b haplotype spread from North Africa as well as Iberia. R1b is associated with the Basques, their genetic kinship to the Irish and Welsh in well attested, and the Basques are pre-Indo European peoples who have nothing to do with the Celts proper. Therefore the Welsh and Irish must revisit they idea of a "Celtic" nationality ( whatever that is). Altenos of Europ
e
> an decent reflect Spain, and Spain at the advent of the colinazation of the Americas was a very heterogenous country. Until there is a study conducted and evidence that the majority of Altenos are of a similar genetic background I would avoid painting all of us with such broad strokes.
>
> One of the reasons that people engage in genetic research is to associate themselves with groups of ancient people, we hope that those people are great warriors or leaders, the reality we encounter may be completely different from what we hope, but we should always hold the truth above all else, not make the truth fit our agenda or as we wish to see it.
>

Heres a new thing not only in Los Altos are Spanish descendants, last time I checkedthere are also Germans, French, Russians, English, Americans, Portuguese, Italiansand all sorts of other people. They probably mixed with the "alteno aristocracy there"We have to take account all the people that since the indpendence settled in Los Altosbesides the Spanish. Not saying they are in the millions but there are sure other nonSpanish surnames in Los Altos I have heard and seen.
Regards,Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gandalf3.1@netzero.com
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:00:30 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] R1b and Altenos ?
>
> "Yes, the Casillas family descendant from Martin Casillas relative of Viceroy Mendoza is
> also R1b1b2 Celtic-p Frisian...the majority of families are Celtic..."
>
> With all due respect,this is a ridiculous statement. If you are talking about a group of families that is one thing, but to say that the majority of the inhabitants of Los Altos are "Celtic" is laughable.
>
> First of all, the lable "Celtic" applies too a broad group of Ancient Peoples of who the only truly "Celtic" peoples were the Gauls of France and inhabitants of what is now Centeral Europe, these groups gave rise to the Hallstadt and La Tene Celtic "culture" that spread through out Europe. The R1b marker is called the "Atlantic Model haplotype" meaning it is most common in the Atlantic seaboard,from Spain and the British Isles, but also North Africa. There is a very recent DNA study conducted for the Discovery channel special on King Tut and the preliminary results look like Tut may also be R1b, this means that the R1b haplotype spread from North Africa as well as Iberia. R1b is associated with the Basques, their genetic kinship to the Irish and Welsh in well attested, and the Basques are pre-Indo European peoples who have nothing to do with the Celts proper. Therefore the Welsh and Irish must revisit they idea of a "Celtic" nationality ( whatever that is). Altenos of Euro
pe
> an decent reflect Spain, and Spain at the advent of the colinazation of the Americas was a very heterogenous country. Until there is a study conducted and evidence that the majority of Altenos are of a similar genetic background I would avoid painting all of us with such broad strokes.
>
> One of the reasons that people engage in genetic research is to associate themselves with groups of ancient people, we hope that those people are great warriors or leaders, the reality we encounter may be completely different from what we hope, but we should always hold the truth above all else, not make the truth fit our agenda or as we wish to see it.
>

Alicia,

Another family member of the YDNA direct line common ancestor didn't match the other two that did. I'm working on trying to figure out what may have happened, since my paper trail appears to be accurate. We may never be able to figure it out...

I'm being told that it's possible that what appears on paper as a biological father, may not be...

I wasn't prepared for this happening, guess that's what makes genealogy so interesting...

With shared lines as you noted, it does make extending the lines easier when common ancestors appear. Does your paper trail link your husband and your brother with a common male ancestry? Is your husband's mtDNA being tested also?

Tino's mtDNA lines are from Nochistlan, and tested out on HVR1 and HVR2 in Haplogroup A, with 6 mutations in the 1st Segment and 10 mutations in the 2nd Segment.

Tino's paternal line, as far as I can tell we from Momax, Zacatecas area, but appear to have moved around... I'm still working on it.

Tino's YDNA 67 marker tested out as Q1a3a and positive for SNPs: M3+ and negative for SNPs: M19- M194- and M199-.
Per FTDNA the Haplogroup Q1a3a is the only lineage strictly associated with Native American populations.

To date I've not been able to locate anyone from Tino's paternal Grandmother's lineage willing to be mtDNA tested.

Pat Silva Corbera

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alicia Carrillo"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 9:52:49 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y-DNA has been identified

Pat,

We just submitted my husband's 67 marker test. We both come from Nochistlan Zacatecas so my suspicion is that they will be the same as my brother's test. My husband and I are related through 4 of our family lines to date and who knows, maybe more.

Alicia

Thank You Robert for offering to help...
Pat