I agree Race IS a very touchy subject. If you all don't mind maybe we have
said enough about this subject for this thread. In the past this topic has
spiraled into long conversations that have turned into strong disagreements
that border on rudeness. I hate to step in but I've had to in the past and
am kind of jumping in early this time.

I have an idea though, if any of you all want to continue the discussion why
not take it to private email. Just copy and paste all the various email
addresses of the individuals and have at it via private email.

Thanks for understanding.

Joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 2:00 AM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] is racial miscategorization on old
> catholic church records common?
>
> Race iS a very touchy subject that sometimes it is best to not join in
> when it comes up. Many people considered seven eighths espanol as an
> espanol. Some people that were more sensitive would consider any amount
> of Indian descendany as coyote and still there are some people who would
> consider a drop of Indian blood to label them Indian. When I was growing
> up I remember hearing that If you had a drop of black blood than you were
> black . My father's skin color is white he takes after my paternal
> grandmother whose skin was the whitest that I have ever seen even whiter
> than my Swedish neighbors. My paternal grandfather was not dark yet his
> great grandmother had a white mother and a mulato father from teocaltiche
> This means that those that state that a few drops of black blood make a
> person black would call my dad black though you would have a very hard
> time finding anyone whiter than him. My dad and grandmother were not
> albinos but were as close to being albinos as you ca
> n get without being albino
> Race is a subject sometimes best left alone is what was trying to be
> communicated by Sr tovar de teresa. I do not believe that he was trying
> to offend anyone in discussing the subject
> I believe that that his point was that there is no room for racist
> comments in a genealogical forum. Anyone doing serious genealogical work
> better be prepared for some surprises.
> I have taken great joy in trying to unravel and take pride when I succeed
> In figuring out the cloaked "races" in my family RA Ricci Sent from my
> iPhone
>
> On May 17, 2012, at 3:58 PM, detective1920@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > I'm asking since when I will looking up birth records, and marriage
> records from my 5th great grandfather silvestre villaneda, and some of
> his siblings, the records were inconsitiant of the race part. for example
> silvestre's marriage record says he's espanol, but his birth record says
> he's indio. one of his brothers ygnio/hignio birth records labels him as
> coyote. two of his siblings clemente, and maria antonia are also labeled
> indio. his sister reufgio is labeled as espanol.
> >
> > I am soo confused.
> >
> > have any of you guys have this problem?
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Nuestros Ranchos Research
> > Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

In my own case, a family history of dispensas reaching back to the
1500-1600s is provided in one of the marriage entries in Luz Montejana
Hilton's book Sagrada Mitra for several of my ancestors. They are ALL
espanoles. Then an actual filmed (by the FHL) birth entry of the daughter
of the married couple in 175 something states she is Mestiza. Go
figure!!!! Marge :)

On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

> Dear Detective, since you don't provide your first name, I must address
> you by the name of detective.
>
> What years are you talking about in terms of the particular records. In
> the early colonial days of Mexico, about 90 % of the inhabitants of
> colonial Mexico were indigenous people so anything is possible. If the
> records you're referring to are from the 1600's to the 1700's it's very
> likely that they may have been indio's or indigenous people but keep
> searching to see what you find.
>
>
> When posting a question, add as much information as possible such as the
> years, the town or the region, the more detail you provide, the more
> feedback you'll get.
>
> Alicia,
> San Jose, CA
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "detective1920@yahoo.com"
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 3:58 PM
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] is racial miscategorization on old catholic
> church records common?
>
> I'm asking since when I will looking up birth records, and marriage
> records from my 5th great grandfather silvestre villaneda, and some of his
> siblings, the records were inconsitiant of the race part. for example
> silvestre's marriage record says he's espanol, but his birth record says
> he's indio. one of his brothers ygnio/hignio birth records labels him as
> coyote. two of his siblings clemente, and maria antonia are also labeled
> indio. his sister reufgio is labeled as espanol.
>
> I am soo confused.
>
> have any of you guys have this problem?

Creo que no tiene merito dar una respuesta tan agresiva a este participante ya que solo es la direccion de su correo personal. Un detective puede ser detective de muchas formas. Detective o investigador y creo que hasta cierto punto, todos somos detectives de la vida, mas si estamos estudiando a nuestros ancestros, nos sentimos como detectives. Creo o me imagino que su intencion no fue de ofender a nadie en este foro y asi lo tomare solo como comentario y no como algo ofensivo.

Sin mas, una humilde servidora a los miembros de este foro.

Que este bien senor Tovar, deseandole todo lo mejor.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: Guillermo Tovar de Teresa
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] is racial miscategorization on old catholic church records common?

Váyase con cuidado. Le recomiendo quitarse el nombre de detective. Si quiere
meterse en cuestiones raciales, ponerse de  detective es agresivo y
estúpido. Le advierto: TENGA MUCHO CUIDADO! En nuestra página no aceptamos
ni detectives ni racistas! Es una página genealógica, no policiaca. No vaya
a resultar que usted desciende de indios o de negros, que lo avergüencen.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de
detective1920@yahoo.com
Enviado el: Jueves, 17 de Mayo de 2012 05:58 p.m.
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] is racial miscategorization on old catholic
church records common?

I'm asking since when I will looking up birth records, and marriage records
from my 5th great grandfather silvestre villaneda, and some of his siblings,
the records were inconsitiant of the race part. for example silvestre's
marriage record says he's espanol, but his birth record says he's indio. one
of his brothers ygnio/hignio birth records labels him as coyote. two of his
siblings clemente, and maria antonia are also labeled indio. his sister
reufgio is labeled as espanol.

I am soo confused.

have any of you guys have this problem?

the priest did not write the record, a scribe did.. for the most part our ancestors never saw the records and most did not read or write.

________________________________
From: "detective1920@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] is racial miscategorization

katherine brecht-

thank you for answering my question. i didn't know that you could pay a priest to mark your child as espanol. i'm guessing doing this was probably expensive so i wonder how they got the money to do that especially since native mexican weren't allowed to get higher paying jobs.