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By dcalonso |

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

Is there someone in the Forum that knows something about mhy ancestor
Francisca Solana Duron? She uses a bunch of different names like Francisca
Duron, Solana Duron, Francisca Solana Duron, francisca Xaviera Duron and
Francisca Xaviera Colmenero. she got married to Phelipe Martin who
sometimes also uses Phelipe Martinez.

There daughter Maria Theodora Martinez who also sometimes uses Maria
Theodora Esparza maried Salvador Macias Valadez in 1746 in El Sagrario,
Aguascalientes, so Phelipe Martin and Francisca Solana Duron/Colmenero
probly married close to 1726. Please let me know if someone in the Nuestros
Ranchos Forum knows about Francisca Solana Duron/Colmenero or Phelip Martin.

Danny C. Alonso

Hi Paige and Danny,

Francisca Durón and Phelipe Ruiz Camarillo and Francisca Solana Durón and Phelipe Martín are not the same couple, although for a second I thought Francisca Durón and Francisca Solana Durón might be the same person, but, they're not.

First, they have overlapping children. Francisca Durón and Phelipe Ruiz Camarillo had a child named Angela de los Dolores Camarillo born on 17 Jun 1729, and Francisca Solana Durón and Phelipe Martín had a Francisco Xavier Martín born 5 months later on 6 Nov 1729. Same with these two children born a month apart, Manuela Petronila Martín born on 8 Jun 1736 and Monica Camarillo born on 22 May 1736.

I think Francisca Durón and Francisca Solana Durón, oddly enough, are sisters. According to below dispensa, Francisca Durón that's married to Phelipe Ruiz Camarillo is the daughter of Francisco Gutiérrez Durón and Beatriz Rodríguez de la Vera. And, even though Beatriz Rodríguez de la Vera is listed as hija de padres no conocidos, the below dispensa identifies her as the daughter of Luisa de Vera.

And, after checking George Fulton's indexes matrimoniales, you'll find the IM of Francisca Xaviera Solana Durón and Phelipe Martín. It doesn't list his parents, but, hers are listed as, Francisco Durón and Beatríz de la Vega, which, I think is a typo by the scribe for Beatríz de la Vera. On the IM, Francisco Durón and Beatríz de la Vega are listed as vecinos de Triana and on the defunción of Francisco Durón, it lists him as becino del barrio de Triana, casado con Beatríz de la Vera, so, I'd say that Francisca Xaviera Solana Durón married to Phelipe Martín and Francisca Durón married to Phelipe Ruiz Camarillo are most likely sisters, even though, I've rarely seen two sisters with the same first name and the same two parents.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DYM7-NJJ?i=16&wc=M6QF-229%…

You can find George Fulton's indexes matrimoniales here:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18014

688

Aguascalientes. Ags Diciembre 22 de 1717. Exp. 105 - Dispensa de tercero con
cuarto grado de consanguinidad, y segundo grado de afinidad por cópula ilícita.-
Phelipe Ruiz Camarillo. español de 40 años de edad, originario y vecino de esta
villa, hijo legítimo de Esteban Ruiz Camarillo y de Juana González, difuntos;
con Francisca Durón. española de 17 años de edad, originaria y vecina de esta
villa, hija legítima de Francisco Durón y de Beatriz Rodríguez de Vera.
Declaración del pretenso: Tuve acceso con Gertrudis de Arizmendi, prima Hermana
de Francisca Durón. Declaración de Phelipe González, español de 46 años de edad
Por cuanto Luisa de Vera, abuela de la pretensa y Juana González, madre del
pretenso eran primas hermanas Se otorgó la dispensa en la Ciudad de
Guadalajara. en 16 de abril de 1718 11 fojas

Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara Rollo
167985 OAH 2348 pt 1. Matrimonios
Hojas Suelus. 1716. 22 de diciembre
de 1717

Chris

Dear Chris,

Sisters with the same name isn't as rare as you may think, at least not in los Altos de Jalisco. On two separate occasions it took me a while to figure out which of two sisters with very similar names were the right ones. With another family that i was studying, I found about five sisters, it may have been more, all named Maria Antonia with each one having an additional name that was different. They all had the same parents. With men, I have also found similar named brothers. Jose Manuel and Juan Manuel. My grandfather had two brothers with the same name, Refugio. I know two Martin sisters from Pegueros with the same first name.

Rick

Hi Rick,

Yeah, I've seen siblings with similar and variations of the same name before. I have one family where the baptisms show about 6 different children all named variations of Antonia and Josefa, but, in those cases one is named Antonia Josefa Luisa and one is named Josefa Teresa Antonia, but in those cases they each use the name that isn't Josefa or Antonia. I rarely come across two siblings both using the same first name, although, I bet in reality she probably mostly went by Solana.

Chris

Thanks Chris for your informative post which clears up some questions I had with this family.

An additional bit of information is that Francisco Gutierrez Duron, father of the two Francisca's, also used the surname of Ruiz Colmenero which explains the use of the Colmenenero last name by some of his descendants.

Also, as a possible explanation of the Solana name used by the Francisca who married Felipe Martin, there is a Saint Francisco Solano (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Solanus) who's feast day is celebrated on July 14. Perhaps, the Francisca with a baptism date of July 12, 1707 is Francisca Javiera Solana?

Hasta pronto
Austin Perez

Francisca and Francisca were sisters.

Here's the 1st, b 17 Feb 1698, m1 Phelipe Ruiz de Camarillo m2. Francisco de Esparza
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-64V7-3LQ?wc=M6Q6-J29%3A648…

And the 2nd, b. 12 Jul 1707 m. to Phelipe Martin; have her as "Francisca Xaviera," so she probably went by "Xaviera."
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XX6T-BX?i=355&wc=M6QX-TP6%…

My g7 Nicolas Trujillo had 3 daughters named Juana - one with his first wife, and 2 with his second wife. They used different surnames: Juana de Venegas (her mother's surname), Juana de Loya (her mother's surname, though she sometimes went by Juana Trujillo)) and her full-sister, Juana Trujillo.

"Juana" must've been his mother's name, or perhaps his patron saint?

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Hi Manny,

I agree those are the two baptisms for each sister. I think because I see so many baptisms a few years later for a child with the same name and then I find a defuncion for the first child, that normally when I see a second baptism with the same name, I assume the first child died.

Chris

I have a maternal ancestor, Anna Christina Marquez Martines, married to Juan Faustino Duron circa 1750 (have not located their marriage info yet). Juan Faustino Duron has also appeared as Faustino Colmenero in some records, which has been confusing for me. Can anyone enlighten me re: the Colmenero surname in relation to Duron? The only reference I've found so far for Faustino's parents is from a death record in Aguascalientes for 13 Jun 1786 : Manuel Colmenero, father, & Maria Antonia, his mother. It does show his wife as Crestina Marques. Anna Crestina's parents are Alexo Marques & Gertrudis Martines, but I've found no further information for them in Aguascalientes circa early 1700's. If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be most appreciative, as Gertrudis Martinez is my most distant known ancestor in my matrilineal lineage.

My husband has ancestors in Aguascalientes in late 1600s and 1700s with the name Duron, also Martinez or Martines, and sometimes they used just Martin (from Martin del Campo).

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: cudave@icloud.com
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 12:16:50 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colmenero & Duron surnames
>
> I have a maternal ancestor, Anna Christina Marquez Martines, married to Juan
> Faustino Duron circa 1750 (have not located their marriage info yet). Juan
> Faustino Duron has also appeared as Faustino Colmenero in some records, which
> has been confusing for me. Can anyone enlighten me re: the Colmenero surname
> in relation to Duron? The only reference I've found so far for Faustino's
> parents is from a death record in Aguascalientes for 13 Jun 1786 : Manuel
> Colmenero, father, & Maria Antonia, his mother. It does show his wife as
> Crestina Marques. Anna Crestina's parents are Alexo Marques & Gertrudis
> Martines, but I've found no further information for them in Aguascalientes
> circa early 1700's. If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be most appreciative, as
> Gertrudis Martinez is my most distant known ancestor in my matrilineal
> lineage.
>

Hello Emilie!

I'm so happy to see your response! I emailed you several years back because I had read some of your posts on Nuestros and realized that we're actually relatively "close" neighbors in Kitsap. I've been researching my mother's ancestors since 2010, beginning not long after my father's death.

Early this spring, I began working on my dad's lineage in Guanajuato. To my surprise, I've recently discovered that my father's line gradually migrated to Guanajuato from the Los Altos region of Jalisco! Who knew that both of my parent's family origins came from the same state in Mexico!!! It's a small world...after all!

Anyway...the Duron, Marquez, Colmenero & Martines surnames all seem to hail from Aguascalientes in the mid-to-later part of the 1700's and represent some of the earliest ancestors in my matrilineal lines. They've been one of my brick walls for the better part of 3 years!

Maybe we could meet some time over a cup of coffee and compare notes on the possibility of common ancestors? If interested, you can contact me @ cudave@icloud.com.

And...happy Thanksgiving to you & your husband!
Consuelo Udave

> On Nov 21, 2015, at 2:21 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
> My husband has ancestors in Aguascalientes in late 1600s and 1700s with the name Duron, also Martinez or Martines, and sometimes they used just Martin (from Martin del Campo).
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> From: cudave@icloud.com
>> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 12:16:50 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colmenero & Duron surnames
>>
>> I have a maternal ancestor, Anna Christina Marquez Martines, married to Juan
>> Faustino Duron circa 1750 (have not located their marriage info yet). Juan
>> Faustino Duron has also appeared as Faustino Colmenero in some records, which
>> has been confusing for me. Can anyone enlighten me re: the Colmenero surname
>> in relation to Duron? The only reference I've found so far for Faustino's
>> parents is from a death record in Aguascalientes for 13 Jun 1786 : Manuel
>> Colmenero, father, & Maria Antonia, his mother. It does show his wife as
>> Crestina Marques. Anna Crestina's parents are Alexo Marques & Gertrudis
>> Martines, but I've found no further information for them in Aguascalientes
>> circa early 1700's. If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be most appreciative, as
>> Gertrudis Martinez is my most distant known ancestor in my matrilineal
>> lineage.
>>

Well, hello neighbor,

Yes I would like to meet with you or chat with you via e-mail and find out more about where you live, etc. I will e-mail you privately later. In the meantime, I will look for your e-mail to see what it was about. I usually print out e-mails that I need to respond to. Maybe if you tell me what it was about, I can look in the binders I have. I have five bookcases of family trees I have done for folks since 2001.

Since 2010 I have been quite ill and had dialysis and a kidney transplant and need to take 20 pills a day for the rest of my life so the kidney won't reject, so maybe that is why you didn't hear back from me. I have good days and bad, and now that I am 77 and my husband Tony is 80, we don't go out much.

Only recently have I gotten back to doing research like I used to and am currently doing a family tree for my adopted daughter, and I find that her paternal and maternal ancestors all came to Jalisco via Aguascalientes (the two states were once one) and then also went on to Guanajuato or mixed with people from there. Her parents are second cousins to each other.

I also believe that she and my husband may have common ancestors (he on his paternal lines) way back since I find many of the same surnames and the same places in the records for both of them. I also find that in my husband's lines, several couples were related to each other through common ancestors. It may well be that you and my husband have common ancestors. Small world indeed.

Sincerely,

Emilie

> From: cudave@icloud.com
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 21:46:46 -0800
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colmenero & Duron surnames
>
> Hello Emilie!
>
> I'm so happy to see your response! I emailed you several years back because I had read some of your posts on Nuestros and realized that we're actually relatively "close" neighbors in Kitsap. I've been researching my mother's ancestors since 2010, beginning not long after my father's death.
>
> Early this spring, I began working on my dad's lineage in Guanajuato. To my surprise, I've recently discovered that my father's line gradually migrated to Guanajuato from the Los Altos region of Jalisco! Who knew that both of my parent's family origins came from the same state in Mexico!!! It's a small world...after all!
>
> Anyway...the Duron, Marquez, Colmenero & Martines surnames all seem to hail from Aguascalientes in the mid-to-later part of the 1700's and represent some of the earliest ancestors in my matrilineal lines. They've been one of my brick walls for the better part of 3 years!
>
> Maybe we could meet some time over a cup of coffee and compare notes on the possibility of common ancestors? If interested, you can contact me @ cudave@icloud.com.
>
> And...happy Thanksgiving to you & your husband!
> Consuelo Udave
>
> > On Nov 21, 2015, at 2:21 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:
> >
> > My husband has ancestors in Aguascalientes in late 1600s and 1700s with the name Duron, also Martinez or Martines, and sometimes they used just Martin (from Martin del Campo).
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> >
> >> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> >> From: cudave@icloud.com
> >> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 12:16:50 -0800
> >> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colmenero & Duron surnames
> >>
> >> I have a maternal ancestor, Anna Christina Marquez Martines, married to Juan
> >> Faustino Duron circa 1750 (have not located their marriage info yet). Juan
> >> Faustino Duron has also appeared as Faustino Colmenero in some records, which
> >> has been confusing for me. Can anyone enlighten me re: the Colmenero surname
> >> in relation to Duron? The only reference I've found so far for Faustino's
> >> parents is from a death record in Aguascalientes for 13 Jun 1786 : Manuel
> >> Colmenero, father, & Maria Antonia, his mother. It does show his wife as
> >> Crestina Marques. Anna Crestina's parents are Alexo Marques & Gertrudis
> >> Martines, but I've found no further information for them in Aguascalientes
> >> circa early 1700's. If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be most appreciative, as
> >> Gertrudis Martinez is my most distant known ancestor in my matrilineal
> >> lineage.
> >>
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Hola Emilie,

I'll respond to this email privately, after Thanksgiving, ok?
Till then,
Consuelo Udave

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 23, 2015, at 12:18 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
> Well, hello neighbor,
>
> Yes I would like to meet with you or chat with you via e-mail and find out more about where you live, etc. I will e-mail you privately later. In the meantime, I will look for your e-mail to see what it was about. I usually print out e-mails that I need to respond to. Maybe if you tell me what it was about, I can look in the binders I have. I have five bookcases of family trees I have done for folks since 2001.
>
> Since 2010 I have been quite ill and had dialysis and a kidney transplant and need to take 20 pills a day for the rest of my life so the kidney won't reject, so maybe that is why you didn't hear back from me. I have good days and bad, and now that I am 77 and my husband Tony is 80, we don't go out much.
>
> Only recently have I gotten back to doing research like I used to and am currently doing a family tree for my adopted daughter, and I find that her paternal and maternal ancestors all came to Jalisco via Aguascalientes (the two states were once one) and then also went on to Guanajuato or mixed with people from there. Her parents are second cousins to each other.
>
> I also believe that she and my husband may have common ancestors (he on his paternal lines) way back since I find many of the same surnames and the same places in the records for both of them. I also find that in my husband's lines, several couples were related to each other through common ancestors. It may well be that you and my husband have common ancestors. Small world indeed.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Emilie
>
>> From: cudave@icloud.com
>> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 21:46:46 -0800
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colmenero & Duron surnames
>>
>> Hello Emilie!
>>
>> I'm so happy to see your response! I emailed you several years back because I had read some of your posts on Nuestros and realized that we're actually relatively "close" neighbors in Kitsap. I've been researching my mother's ancestors since 2010, beginning not long after my father's death.
>>
>> Early this spring, I began working on my dad's lineage in Guanajuato. To my surprise, I've recently discovered that my father's line gradually migrated to Guanajuato from the Los Altos region of Jalisco! Who knew that both of my parent's family origins came from the same state in Mexico!!! It's a small world...after all!
>>
>> Anyway...the Duron, Marquez, Colmenero & Martines surnames all seem to hail from Aguascalientes in the mid-to-later part of the 1700's and represent some of the earliest ancestors in my matrilineal lines. They've been one of my brick walls for the better part of 3 years!
>>
>> Maybe we could meet some time over a cup of coffee and compare notes on the possibility of common ancestors? If interested, you can contact me @ cudave@icloud.com.
>>
>> And...happy Thanksgiving to you & your husband!
>> Consuelo Udave
>>
>>> On Nov 21, 2015, at 2:21 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>> My husband has ancestors in Aguascalientes in late 1600s and 1700s with the name Duron, also Martinez or Martines, and sometimes they used just Martin (from Martin del Campo).
>>>
>>> Emilie
>>> Port Orchard, WA
>>>
>>>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>> From: cudave@icloud.com
>>>> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 12:16:50 -0800
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colmenero & Duron surnames
>>>>
>>>> I have a maternal ancestor, Anna Christina Marquez Martines, married to Juan
>>>> Faustino Duron circa 1750 (have not located their marriage info yet). Juan
>>>> Faustino Duron has also appeared as Faustino Colmenero in some records, which
>>>> has been confusing for me. Can anyone enlighten me re: the Colmenero surname
>>>> in relation to Duron? The only reference I've found so far for Faustino's
>>>> parents is from a death record in Aguascalientes for 13 Jun 1786 : Manuel
>>>> Colmenero, father, & Maria Antonia, his mother. It does show his wife as
>>>> Crestina Marques. Anna Crestina's parents are Alexo Marques & Gertrudis
>>>> Martines, but I've found no further information for them in Aguascalientes
>>>> circa early 1700's. If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be most appreciative, as
>>>> Gertrudis Martinez is my most distant known ancestor in my matrilineal
>>>> lineage.
>>>>
>>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> To post, send email to:
>>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Juan Faustino was baptized 26 August 1714 in Aguascalientes, his parents are Jose Manuel Ruiz Colmenero (aka Duron) and Maria Polonia Fernandez de Sosa. Faustino's godfather was capitan Nicolas Faustion de Aguilera. The baptism is the first record in the following image:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XX6B-8V?i=471&wc=M6Q6-VP8%…

Jose Manuel Duron is the son of Francisco Gutierrez Duron (aka Ruiz Colmenero) and Beatriz Rodriguez de Vera. Maria Polonia Fernandez de Sosa was originally from Silao and is the illegitimate daughter of Juan Fernandez de Sosa and Maria Dorotea. Their marriage record is top right of the following image: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-XXC3-CP6?wc=M99K-3Z1%3An10…

Sorry, but I don't have any information for Ana Cristina Marquez.

Best regards,
Austin Perez

Austin,

this is great information. now me and Consuelo are related since Jose Manuel Duron and my Francisca Solana Duron are brother and sister.

Danny C. Alonso

Hi Austin,

Thanks, that's great information. That makes sense, her younger sister was probably named for St. Francis of Assisi and She was named for St. Francisco Solano combined with the Basque, St. Francis Xavier. That baptism date would also definitely line up with when she was probably born. We need to find out where the Ruiz Colmenero comes from.

Chris

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sarod77

8 years 11 months ago

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Maria Theodora Martines (M3B1-TWW) married to Salvador Macias de Bustos (M3K3-NJ7) I found the information disjointed and just merged information. All they need are dates of approx. birth and the computer will search more efficiently, but they sure have many variables. There came up 2 matches for Maria Theodora, but I did not merge because I do not know enough about them to merge them. Hope that helps you.

Simona,

Salvador Macias and MAria Theodora Martines got married on january 9th 1746
in el Sagrario Aguascalientes so both of them wwere probly born close to
1726. The parents for Salvador Macias are Thomas Macias Valadez and
Nicolasa de Bustos

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DTDQ-NQD?i=341&wc=M6QF-2P8…

Danny C. Alonso

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 8:36 AM, wrote:

> Maria Theodora Martines (M3B1-TWW) married to Salvador Macias de Bustos
> (M3K3-NJ7) I found the information disjointed and just merged information.
> All they need are dates of approx. birth and the computer will search more
> efficiently, but they sure have many variables. There came up 2 matches for
> Maria Theodora, but I did not merge because I do not know enough about them
> to merge them. Hope that helps you.
>

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