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Por raynababette |

Hello, I'm wondering if someone can help me read this marriage record. I am not yet able to read this type of writing well, especially the abbreviations. What I'm particularly interested in are these: On the third line between Lopez and de este Pueblo; On the fourth line what is his mother's name? Also, what are the words between Ana Luisa Diaz and hija. Also, in the column on the left, what does the bottom line say? Thank you!

Babette

Dear Rayna,

After looking at many of the records on your ancestors I began to suspect that something was a little fishy. This morning, as soon as I got up, I put my hypothesis the test. It turns out that my hypothesis is correct.

It turns out that Juan Miguel Luna de Lopez's mother's name is Antonia Rosalia Lopez y Luna. Cayetano Lopez and Petrona Luna are the parents of Antonia (Antta) Rosalia Lopez y Luna. They are españoles. It seem that Antonia Rosalia gets together with someone that was not an español. She has a son that she names Juan Miguel Lopez de Luna. He is obviously born out of wedlock. On his marriage record she hides the fact that he was born out of wedlock and names her father as the father of Juan Miguel Luna y Lopez. She does give her name as the mother, not her mother's name.

So in other words, Juan Miguel Luna y Lopez, mestizo, has his dead maternal grandfather listed as his father on his marriage record. Here is the baptismal record for Antonia Lopez y Luna:

Antta. Rosalia Lopes Luna española
Gender Female
Christening Date 17 Jul 1735
Christening Place SAYULA,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Caietano Lopes
Mother's Name Petrona De Luna
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JSX2-9X8 : 12 December 2014), Antta. Rosalia Lopes Luna, 17 Jul 1735; citing SAYULA,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 224,934, 227,934.
Image 57 out off 547

Padrino Joseph Antonio Ponze and Maria Bernarda Gamez

Thanks for asking for help. I really enjoyed cracking this case.
Rick A. Ricci

Rick A. Ricci,
I have been going over one of your answers to my query about the Juan Miguel de Luna y Lopez marriage record. The one I’ve been looking over is the one regarding his father. I’m not sure what sparked your curiosity about that, but let’s see if the following is correct: 1) The baptismal records of his daughter, Maria Bicenta did not show grandparents, and I have not yet found the baptismal record of Jose Maria Lopez; 2) the baptismal record (which you found) of a son, Jose Mathias Leandro showed his paternal grandmother as Anna Rosalia Lopes; 3) the marriage record of Juan Miguel and Anna Luisa Diaz showed his father to be Calettano Lopes; 4) you then searched and found the baptismal record of Anna Rosalia Lopes which shows her father to be Calettano Lopes and her mother as Petrona de Luna; 5) that record confirmed to you that Juan Miguel’s father is not Calettano Lopes.
I found another daughter today, Maria Rafaela de Los Angeles Lopez and it shows the abuelos paternos as no conocidos.
Where do we establish that Juan Miguel de Luna y Lopez is mestizo?
Also, I have not found the informacion matrimonial.

Thank you again for all of your help!
Rayna Babette Allen

Dear Rayna,

You are correct, the marriage record does name him as español and the parents named españoles, but that is his maternal grandfather and not his father. In another record I don't recall which, he is clearly identified as Mestizo. I would have to go back and research which record that was. His mother and maternal grandparents are españoles.

Rick A. Ricci

Answers to your questions:

Español originally from and resident of this pueblo

Mothers name Ana Bernarda Aleman

Ana Luisa Diaz Español originally from and resident of this pueblo and a legitimate daughter of

Españoles

Here are some reads that you maw ant to check out:

Antonio Valerio Dias Aleman
Gender Male
Christening Date 14 Feb 1765
Christening Place SAYULA,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Nicolas Dias
Mother's Name Bernarda Aleman
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV99-BZ5 : 12 December 2014), Bernarda Aleman in entry for Antonio Valerio Dias Aleman, 14 Feb 1765; citing SAYULA,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 224,936.

Maria Josepha Rafaela Dias Aleman
Gender Female
Christening Date 16 Apr 1760
Christening Place SAYULA,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Nicolas Dias
Mother's Name Bernarda Maria Aleman
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J9PZ-S9Y : 12 December 2014), Bernarda Maria Aleman in entry for Maria Josepha Rafaela Dias Aleman, 16 Apr 1760; citing SAYULA,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 224,935.

Vernarda Aleman Gomes
Gender Female
Christening Date 25 Oct 1709
Christening Place SAYULA,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Nicolas Aleman
Mother's Name Anttonia Gomes
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVM1-YG4 : 12 December 2014), Vernarda Aleman Gomes, 25 Oct 1709; citing SAYULA,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 224,932.

Thank you! That really has helped me identify some words. The mother's name I was looking for was that of Juan's mother. I think the name you gave me was Ana's mother. It's right after the part on the 4th line that says Calletano Lopez defto y Ana ....... Does that say Rosalia?

Thank you for the additional information! I indeed will check it out!

Babette,

it says Ana Rosalia.

Danny C. Alonso

On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 11:34 AM, wrote:

> Thank you! That really has helped me identify some words. The mother's
> name I
> was looking for was that of Juan's mother. I think the name you gave me was
> Ana's mother. It's right after the part on the 4th line that says Calletano
> Lopez defto y Ana ....... Does that say Rosalia? Thank you for the
> additional
> information! I indeed will check it out!
>
>

I looked up a baptismal record to see what her name was there and it does say Ana Rosalia Lopez.

Jose Mathias Leandro Lopes Dias
Gender Male
Christening Date 27 Feb 1803
Christening Place SAYULA,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Juan Miguel Lopes
Mother's Name Maria Luisa Dias
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NGDY-KYB : 12 December 2014), Maria Luisa Dias in entry for Jose Mathias Leandro Lopes Dias, 27 Feb 1803; citing SAYULA,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 224,940. Image 140 out of 516

Rick A. Ricci

Thank you for this new find (for me)! I must say I am so impressed by how quickly you, and others are able to find records! I want to do that too! Even now, when I put the names in familysearch.org, I was not able to come up with this record. Thanks to you supplying the film and image numbers I was able to find the image. Is there a secret to searching that I'm not aware of? Clearly I need to learn more about how to search! Thank you so much!

Rayna Babette Allen

Genealogy Research