David you gave a wonderful answer here. . .helped me and gave me the
perspective that i knew was missing from the previous discussion. You
are absolutely right about being careful to lean toward being
judgemental in Spanish to English. We should carry that a step further
and say to use this advice when going from English to English as words
can easily be understood to have alternate interpretations. All the
above being thought of as communications in the 21st century. . .now
imagin the communication differences in the 20th century, the 19th
century, the 18th century, the 17th century, the 16th century! And how
about the differences in time ALONG with usuages from place to place
from circumstance to circumstance. I was listening to a podcast
yesterday about a science teacher talking about coaching a soccer team
that would do poorly when the catholic members of the team went to their
religious studies, but would bounce back during the second half of
certain games when they came back from their class and the cheer was
"Here Come the Catholics." In this Teachers family the phrase "Here Come
the Catholics" took on the personal meaning of when situations were
tough but help was on the way. But unless we know and study all the
circumstances and history we wouldn't know the meaning of this phrase
and how much less would we for our ancestors and the situations they
found themselves in.

Thanks David. . .we should be fast to study, fast to research, slow to
conclude.

joseph

ps: David you aplogized for rambling. Surely you jest. . .if I can
accuse you of anything it would be of not sharing enough of your great
points of view. Keep them coming hermano we need your input to balance
our points of view.

David P. Delgado wrote:

>I have learned over the years doing family research is that certain words are used differently in different centuries and locales. For example, people who lived in remote areas without a resident priest didn't wait for one to show in order to "marry". The church did not see any reason to blame people for uniting and having children before seeing a priest for the church ritual. Hence the term "hijo natural" came into use. Once the locale has a resident priest the use of "hijo natural" disappears. I have seen the priests use "hijo ilegitimo" or "hijo bastardo" to identify the child whose parents failed to observe the "rules". I believe it is presumptuous to call a child a bastard if the "hijo natural" label is the result of a priest not being nearby. Some communities went longer than a year without the services of a priest.
>
>The term "hijo legitimo" is usually reserved for those chidren whose parents were married in a church ceremony prior to the childs' birth. One of my ancestors is labeled as "hijo ilicito" and "hijo legitimo" in the same baptism record. The parents were married after the birth in an outlying area. One of my uncles was labeled illegitimate in 1912 New Mexico because his parents married civilly before marrying in a church ceremony.
>
>As for the term "expuesto" (exposed in English), I have seen it used to cover many situations. One ancestor "found" a child "expuesto" in his home. His only daughter got married two years later and the child was raised by her parents. Another ancestor (El Passo del Norte) found a child "expuesto" alongside an irrigation canal. Priests found children on their doorsteps and window sills. In 1870's Aguas Calientes, Ags. I found a record of a priest who answered a knock on his door late one night. A woman thrust a child in his arms and ran away. When he looked at the bundle in his arms he saw the baby covered in blood. The umbilical cord had been cut too short. The child died in his arms that night.
>
>Words are only sounds but they can hurt. It is best, I believe, to observe and record. Using judgemental language to "translate" from Spanish to English is not very helpful. I think we all have a lot to learn about the past.
>
>My apologies if I rambled.
>
>David in Albany, CA
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