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By dcalonso |

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

This question is really meant for Mary Lou, but if anyone else knows the answer that would be good too. I was recently reading about Maria de la Ruelas on Mary Lou's dropbox:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yop1j3tqornd0xh/AABnVNtOvuDJtcuW0Gk5vgBHa?dl…

and I had a question about Ysabel Marin, daughter of Maria de las Ruelas and Andres Martin Camacho. I had no clue she was the daughter until I read the dropbox. I had thought maybe she was related to the Marin de penalozas until today. But now Im wondering where did she get the Marin name. I thought maybe it was a mistake for Martin but I have 2 records that write her name as Marin. Do you know where it comes from.

Danny C. Alonso

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iChristopher

8 years 8 months ago

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Hi Danny,

Thanks for reposting the link to Mary Lou's dropbox, I couldn't find it the other day. I don't have the answer to your question, although, I do descend from Isabel Marín.

My question is about the daughter Antonia de las Ruelas, wife of Alonso de Laredo, that received the dowry of 4000 pesos. I'm curious if anyone is aware of her children. Because, I have a couple that I've hit a brick wall on, Captain Juan Laredo de Sotomayor and Juana de Laris y Otalora and looking at the name Laredo de Sotomayor, it would make sense that his parents might be Alonso de Laredo and Antonia de las Ruelas, knowing that the Ruelas family also use Sotomayor. If anyone is aware of the children of Alonso de Laredo and Antonia de las Ruelas, please let me know.

Chris

Chris,

That sounds right. I looked at the Wikitree for Juan Lerado de Sotomayor and guess he was probly born aroun 1640 or earlier. it would make sense that his parents might be Alonso Lerado and Antonia de la Ruelas.

Danny C. Alonso

Hello, Danny.

I don't know why Isabel used Marin. Early in my research on Andres Martin and Maria de las Ruelas/Sotomayor I would occasionally come across Andres with the surname Marin. And some of the kids, too, like Isabel. I even started some FGSs with Marin. But as the family expanded, Martin was the dominant surname. Later I would sometimes come across Marin and even Martinez, but I stayed with Martin and blamed the scribe!

Mary Lou

Finally found the FGS on Alonso de Laredo and Antonia de las Roelas y Sotomayor. Added it to Dropbox. Front and back.

When their son Juan was baptized the entry refers to Alonso as Juan. That's the only place I've seen him referred to as Juan. There were several "Juan/Juana" in that entry and the scribe may have been careless. Maybe.

Also note that Philipa's mother is listed as Antonia Marin. Another instance of Marin/Martin.

Very glad that the Dropbox is being used and is of help. I haven't done original research for about 10 years. But I have much in my files that I want to share. I'm working on a project right now that will take a few weeks: my extractions of early unfilmed records of Pinos. Starting with baptisms. A treasure. I don't think anyone else has done these. Stop me if they have.

Mary Lou

Hi Mary Lou,

Yes, the Dropbox is amazing. And, thank you for adding the latest FGS. It's been extremely helpful in my research. Plus, it brings up a lot of interesting questions. I hadn't thought of the Marin/Martin question before, but, now that I've seen 3 records that use Marin, I'm beginning to wonder about Danny's question, because now it no longer seems like a mistake of the scribe. I wonder the origins. Thanks again Mary Lou. And, I await the latest add to the Dropbox.

Chris

Hi Chris,

I came upon this in the SLP misc: 18 Jul 1647, Antonia Marin declares that Alonso Laredo has abandoned her and their children, who have been staying at the home of her cuñado, Lucas de Santa Cruz, in SLP (who can barely sustain himself). I’ve only scanned through it, but it looks like she’s trying to free up some of her dowry, or something. They mention that they have a son and a daughter, but don’t name them (img86):
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-958F-PZ5?i=83&wc=MXBY-RZW

And here’s the follow-up from 14 Sep 1647. One of the testigos was Joseph Martin, who might be her brother, but I don’t see his “Jusepe Martin” signature:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58F-R5W?i=58&wc=MXBY-RNR

Heavy stuff. This generation was plagued with drama. It’s like one of my mother’s telenovelas!

I’ve found some other documents, regarding the children of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas, which I’ll post in this thread.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Manny,

This family is ancestors of mine,but I cant read this document, do you know who Antonia Marin is writing to about her husband abandoning her? And, what happened, was it ever resolved?

Danny C. Alonso

Hi Danny,

She would’ve made the declaration to the local judicial authorities. Alonso Laredo was living in Sierra de Pinos at the time, and they sent someone to find him, from what I can tell. Otherwise, I don’t know how it was resolved.

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Profile picture for user jrefugioghermosillo

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jrefugioghermosillo

8 years 5 months ago

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Hola primas y primos,

Here are entries for Maria de las Ruelas, and her spinster daughter, Josepha de las Ruelas, in the 1668, 1681, 1684 padrones for SLP.

1668 SLP Padron (begins img1139). Maria Ruela can be found in left image, column 4, with daughters Josepha and Teresa, and grandchildren:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5YS1-D?i=1142&wc=3NTX-VZ9

1681 SLP Padron (begins img974). Maria de las Ruelas having already passed away, Josepha de las Ruelas (left image) apparently took over as matriarch and guardian of her nephews and nieces. Antonia de las Ruelas and her children are in the right image:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-DSSC-KN?i=980&wc=3JMN-YWL

1684 SLP Padron (begins img336). Josepha de las Ruelas and her nieces, right image column 2:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-DX9V-YF?i=340&wc=3JMN-GP8

If you have lines in SLP during these years, you should be able to locate them.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Almost sounds like the name of a telenovela!

Hola primas y primos,

These are some of the documents that Mary Lou discovered, regarding Maria de las Ruelas, laying the groundwork for her children’s attempt to have her declared unfit to manage her own affairs. Thank you again, Mary Lou, for sharing, and for pointing us in the right direction!

23 Apr 1673: Maria de las Ruelas gives her declaration as sole heiress of her deceased grandson, Antonio Diaz de la Guerta, a merchant in Teocaltiche, married to Geronimo de Alarcon y Rubalcava. She gives an inventory of his assets, which included over 400 head of cattle. In these documents, the surname “Barriga” is used, instead of “Camacho.” This might be, because these proceedings took place in SLP, where there were several unrelated families named “Camacho,”and maybe they wanted to avoid confusion. That’s just a guess: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-958F-92D5?i=367&wc=MXBY-RTB

21 Jun 1674: Pedro Martin Barriga, Nicolas Martin and Antonia de las Ruelas, attempt to have their mother, Maria de las Ruelas, declared unfit to manage her own affairs, due to her advanced age. She has already given powers to the husband of her granddaughter, Marcos de Villareal, so that he can manage her business affairs, which the 3 children are contesting. As Mary Lou says, the documents are fragmented, with tears mid-sentence, but you can get the gist of it, if you just read through. Maria de las Ruelas first appears on img307. She really gives her wayward kids the verbal chankla!
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58F-9P1R?i=300&wc=MXBY-TTG

By the way, I estimate that Maria de las Ruelas died between Nov 1674 and Apr 1681, since she doesn’t appear in the 1681 padron. She would’ve been in her early 90’s.

Enjoy!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Dear Manny,

I really enjoy reading your posts. You have provided much information. Since most of my work lately has focused on the other side of the Atlantic I must rely on these posts to keep up to date on research in the Americas.

I too have found the Marin and the Martin surnames at times used interchangeably. For my ancestor Ma. Jpha Potenciana Marin "Arenas" de la Peña Losa it just turned out to be scribes mistakes. But for another line there was a marriage between a Marin descendant and a Martin Descendant so it went back and forth until Martin was the surname that stuck.

I am very curious about the Barriga name being used instead of Camacho. We already know that there is a connection between the Camacho surname and Fernandez de Córdoba surname. Can this Barriga name be another clue to finding the Camacho ancestry? What else do you know about the Barriga name and where else it was used?

Thanks again for all your help,
Rick A. Ricci

Hi Danny,

You’re welcome, and thank you for starting this thread: it’s a good place to share and store information & sources relative to our common ancestor, Maria de las Ruelas y Sotomayor, and to her descendants.

Hi Rick,

You’re welcome, and thank you, for your work in Europe, since I descend from some of the same lines, and am only focussing on Mexico, for the time being. My aim is to take as many of my lines back to the peninsula, as possible, and then work from there. I’m sure I’ll be sourcing a lot of your work, when I get there! By the way, I’m unfamiliar with the Camacho link to the Fernandez de Cordoba, which excites me to no end!

“Marin” might be a corruption of “Martin,” and, has anyone else noticed that only the daughters of Andres Martin and Maria de Ruelas (and their descendants) use it? Maybe it morphed, because the women couldn’t sign their names, and it stuck. Or, it could be another surname altogether, and another clue. Another one of those cultural enigmas that will plague us!

Re: “Martin Barriga,” according to “Diccionario biografico de antiguos pobladores de San Luis Potosi 1592-1666,” by Rafael Morales Bocardo, an early resident of SLP was Diego Martin Barriga aka Diego Martin Camacho, b. 1568, who served as Teniente de Alguacil Mayor de San Luis Potosi, in 1599. He appears as a testigo throughout the early SLP protocolos and causas criminales, 1599-1608. Mary Lou and I have discussed him, and believe he is likely related to Andres Martin Camacho - brother, or a cousin. Mary Lou found a Diego Martin Barriga in an unsourced online tree, in which he was married to Ana de Torres, and had a daughter named Mariana de Torres. Mariana married Antonio Rodriguez Becerra, and lived in Sombrerete. Their daughter, Catalina Becerra, married Luis de Soto, with descendants in Aguascalientes - though I haven’t been able to verify any of this. The timeline appears to fit, but we still don’t know if he’s the same Diego Martin Barriga, nor if he's related to Andres Martin.

I’ve seen “Barriga” in some of the Michoacan padrones, which I’ll go back and research, when I get a chance. I need to go back and sift through early Sagrario SLP and Cerro de San Pedro rolls, to see if Diego Martin appears. I'll post if I find anything.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Hi Manny,

This is great. It really is like a Telanovela. Thanks for this. And, for providing the links to the Padrones, it will really come in handy. Regarding the Marin surname, I tend to think it's a whole other surname altogether, since it appears to many times. On the IM of Maria de las Ruelas's grandson, Antonio Diaz de Huerta, who by the way was the indirect cause of a lot of the drama, he refers to his mother as Ysabel Marin. While his brother Sebastian refers to his mother as Ysabel Marin de Larrueles, which I'm guessing is an incorrect spelling for las Ruelas. But, I really am curious where the Marin comes from. And, the Barriga.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-B71L-4
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-B79M-7L

Chris

Antonio Marin Alba married Teresa Gertrudis De Anda Martin

Nicolas Martin married Isabel Valdivia Marin

These two married couples contributed to the surname sometimes being Marin and sometimes Martin.

Mr. Ricci,

im not familiar with these couples. could you tell me their descendants up to Andres Martin Camacho/Barriga

Danny C. Alonso

Dear Danny,

I have added more information for you.

Antonio Marin Alba (son of Manuel Marin and Theresa De Alva Valdivia) married Teresa Gertrudis De Anda Martin (daughter of Joaquin de Anda Camacho Riquelme and Maria Magdalena Martin del Campo y Flores De La Torre

Nicolas Martin de Sotomayor ( son of Nicolas Martin de Sotomayor and Simona Lopez de la Cerda ). married Isabel Valdivia Marin

These two married couples contributed to the surname sometimes being Marin and sometimes Martin.

Hello, Chris.

I have looked everywhere for my FGS on Alonso and Antonia and finally gave up. From other sources I have the names of three children:

16 May 1636 Luis (padrino Francisco Sanchez)
24 Aug 1639 Margarita (padrinos Felipe Gomes y Maria de Arrona)
Juan Laredo de Sotomayor cc Juana de Lares

I assume these children were born in San Luis Potosi. I just don't have my FGS to back that up.

I have a FGS on Juan Laredo and Juana de Lares (dtr of Domingo de Lares and Nicolasa de Santoyo y de Mendosa) and have two of their children identified:

Isabel Laredo de Sotomayor b.1685 in SLP but raised in Aguascalientes. She gave marriage information on 28 Sep 1700 in AGS to marry Juan Butron Moxica from AGS viudo de doña Isabel de Araiza. He was 34; Isabel was 15.

Rodrigo Laredo b. 21 May 1681 SLP Real San Francisco de los Pozos. His mother was also know as Juana de Laris y Otalora.

If I ever find the FGS on Alonso and Antonia I will let you know. I also have a note that Alonso was sometimes called Juan. Hope this helps.

Mary Lou

Hello again, Chris.

I have something to add re Isabel Laredo de Sotomayor who married Juan Buitron Moxica. This is from an extraction of a document in the Aguascalientes archives. I was writing rapidly so it is in English and Spanish, whichever was easier.

AGS Caja 7/3.
6 May 1716
Yo Isabel Laredo de Sotomayor mujer legitima de Don Juan de Moxica. Vecina de AGS. Her husband "ausente mucho tiempo y separado de mi sin hacer vida maridable y porque me hallo con un hijo suyo y mio nombrado Don Juan de Moxica"...who is 14 years old. He is to be a carpenter apprentice with Maestro Nicolas Flores for 4 years.

Mary Lou

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

In the beginning of this thread it talks about Isabel Marin de Sotomayor and her husband Don Juan de Moxica and it says this about him: "ausente mucho tiempo y separado de mi sin hacer vida maridable y porque me hallo con un hijo suyo y mio nombrado Don Juan de Moxica"... Does anyone know what this means?

Danny C. Alonso

Hi Danny,

It says, “…he’s absent much of the time, and separated from me, we’re not leading a married life, and because I’m left with his child, named Don Juan de Moxica….”

It means he’s abandoned her and the child. Sorry, looks like he was a deadbeat dad.

Manny Diez Hermosillo

Manny,

Wow, that's the second husband that abandoned his wife in this family. Earlier on this thread Alonso Laredo abandons Antonia Marin de Sotomayor. I wonder how common that was back then.

Danny C. Alonso

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