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My great grandparents Manuel (Gama) Estrada and Felipa Ramirez (Neris) were married in Jalostotitlan on February 09, 1822. I have been unable to find their dates of birth or birthplace.

Does anyone know of a nearby place to Jalostotitlan where I could look? Any trends as far as people traveling from specific places to Jalostotitlan back in the late 1700s or early 1800s? I know Felipa Ramirez must have been born in Jalostotitlan because her parents were married there on July 29, 1797. I just cannot find the record for her and have no information for my granpa Manuel Gama (Estrada).

Another question, some of you mentioned that around the 1820's after the war for independence, some families changed their last name. I found my great granfathers to be Manuel Estrada (his father was also names Manuel Estrada) prior to 1820s and later the last name becomes Gama. As far as I can tell as of 1820s Gama was not a maternal last name and my guess is that it goes further back. Manuel Estrada Sr. had a child named Maria Asencion who was married in 1821 as Estrada and who registered her child in 1820 as Gama. At the same time, I do not know how Estrada appeared or when. In 1835 Manl. Gama (AKA Estrada) and Felipa Neris (AKA Ramires) had a child named Refugio Gama Neris in San Miguel el Alto. Any ideas or information as to how Estrada disappeared and Gama appeared shortly after 1822? My ancestors moved from Jalostotitlan to Uncion, then to San Miguel, and finally to Tamazula.

I have always been proud of the Gama last name because it is rare in most areas. But now I cannot find that Gama link! In 1822 my ancestor was married as Manuel Estrada showing his father to have the same name as him, Manuel Estrada.

Any guidance would be appreciated it.

Rosie Cordova

Mis bisabuelos fueron Manuel (Gama) Estrada and Felipa Ramirez quienes se casaron en Jalostotitlan en February 09, 1822. No he podido encontrar sus fechas o lugares de nacimiento.

Existe algun lugar certa de Jalostotitlan donde pudiera buscar en caso de que alli los hubieran registrado? Saben si hubo ciertas tendencias de viajeros que fueron de ciertas regiones a Jalostotitlan por las epocas a finales de 1700s o al empezar los 1800s? Se que Felipa Ramirez debio haber nacido en Jalostotitlan porque sus padres se casaron en July 29, 1797. Solo que no puedo encontrar el record de su nacimiento de ello y no tengo informacion acerca de mi abuelo Manuel Gama (Estrada).

Otra pregunta, algunos del grupo han comentado que alrededor de los 1820s, despues de la guerra de independencia, algunas familias cambiaron sus apellidos. Descubri que mi bisabuelo se llamaba Manuel Estrada (igual que su padre quien tambien se llamaba Manuel Estrada) antes de 1822 y despues uso el apellido de Gama. Por lo que puedo ver, Gama no es apellido materno y pienso que el apellido Gama va mas atras. Al mismo tiempo, no se como aparecio Estrada o cuando. Tiene alguna idea o informacion referente a como desaparecio el apellido Estrada y como aparecio el apellido Gama alrededor de 1822? Mis antepasados se movieron de Jalostotitlan a Uncion, despues a San Miguel, y luego a Tamazula.

Siempre habia estado orgullosa del apellido Gama porque no es muy usual en la mayoria de los lugares. Pero ahora no encuentro mi coneccion con Gama! En 1822 mi bisabuelo Manuel Estrada se caso con ese nombre y muestra que su padre era Manuel Estrada y tenia el mismo nombre.

Les agradeceria sus sugerencias.

Rosie Cordova

Hello Rosie,

For what it's worth, there is a very long list of places within
Jalostotitlán (which is in Teocaltiche). These are the ones I have
discovered so far: el Aire, Amargosa, Arroyo del Róbado, Arroyo del
Prieto, Aventurero, Azuela, Azúchiles, Bajío, Barreras, Buenavista,
Calachimé, Campinita, Carretero, Casas Viejas, Casita, pueblo Cañada,
Cañada de Guzmán, Cañada Honda, Cañada-Delgadillo, Cedros, Cerro
Blanco, Cerro Colorado, Cerro de la Cruz, Cerro de la Llave, Cerro del
Corazón, Coca, la Cofradía, Corral de Piedra, Coyotes, Cueva, el
Deseo, Epazote, Estancia, Gabrieles, Cavilán, Hornos, Huisquilco,
Huiizachal, hacienda el Húmedo, Jalostotitlán, Jerusalem, Jesús María,
la Joya, La Venta, Labor de Alvalsa, Labor de Jiménez, Ladinos,
Lagunas, hacienda la Laja, el Laurel, Llano, Lobos, Loma del Toro,
Mesa Alta, Mesa de Carranza, la Mina, congregación Mitic, Monte Largo,
Mulato, Paleta, Pamarejo, Palo Alto, Palo de Cruz, Palo de la Laja,
congregación Pegueros, Peña Colorado, Peñón, Portales, Potrerillo,
hacienda Potrero, rancho Potrero, Potrero Blanco, Rambla, Rincón de
San Miguel, el Rodeo, el Ruano, Río Verde, Sacristía, Salitre,
Saltillo, Salto de Agua, San Francisco, congregación San Gaspar, San
Isidro, San José de las Tablas, San Juan, San Vicente, Santa Ana,
Santa María de la O., Santa Rosalía, Santa Rosalía, Saucito, Soyates,
Talincoyunque, el Talle, Tapona, Tecameca, congregación Temacapulín,
rancho Temacapulín, Tenería, congregación Teocaltitán, Tetillas, las
Torres, Tortuga, el Trigo, Tuseros, Varas Dulce, Venta y Rodeo,
hacienda los Yugos, Zapotillo.

All these are ranchos except as noted.

The major areas within Teocaltiche are Jalostotitlán, Encarnación,
Paso de Sotos, and Teocaltiche itself. I would check these to see if
they have records. I suspect Teocaltiche would be the most likely to
have its own parish records.

Córdova and Ramírez are both important names in my research. But they
are primarily in San José de Gracia, Aguascalientes. I researched
placenames in Jalostotitlán because it borders Aguascalientes.

Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 2:23:01 AM, you wrote:

> Does anyone know of a nearby place to Jalostotitlan

--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com

Hi Rosie, if you cant find Gama continue looking or Gama and also Estrada. A typical alteno family might have included different names used. Or it could have been a compound name de Estrada y Gama? The marriage recordusually had the places were the person was born, have you checked informacion matrimonial? Daniel
_________________________________________________________________

I started my genealogical research less than a year ago and have relied on Family Search and Nuestros Ranchos for all my information.

What else could I do to find new information when I am stuck with lack of information about an ancestor? I go back as far as 1822 and 1797 both in Jalostotitlan. Do you know of any books or other sources to try to get information?
Does anyone know if the Registro Civil in Jalisco is good at finding information if one has the date of birth and place but not sure as to when the child was registered?

Rosie Cordova

Dear Rosie:
I must assume you have viewed the actual church record for the 1822 marriage? If not, you want to order the microfilm. Although not all the marriages were recorded in detail, many of them have where the bride and groom originated. That would be my first start.
Then realize that many, many records from Jalostotitlan are not transcribed on familysearch, but you can still order the microfilms from Salt Lake City for the years you are interested. Go to the Library tab at the top of familysearch.org and then go to library catalog in the drop down box, click on Place Name search and put in Jalostotitlan part of Mexico. It will show you what is available and then click on church records and film notes. The film notes will list all the films and their call numbers.

Sorry this is with a machine translation, best I can do right now!

¿Rosie estimado:
supongo que debo ha visto el registro de la Iglesia real para el matrimonio de 1822? Si no, que desea ordenar el microfilm. Aunque no todos los matrimonios fueron registrados en detalle, muchos de ellos han donde la novia y novio originado. Esto es lo que mi primera salida. A continuación, darse cuenta de que no se transcribieron registros de muchos, muchos de Jalostotitlan en familysearch, pero todavía puede solicitar los microfilmes de Salt Lake City para los años que le interesan. Ir a la ficha de biblioteca en la parte superior de familysearch.org y, a continuación, vaya al catálogo de biblioteca en el cuadro desplegable, haga clic en búsqueda de nombre de lugar y poner en la parte Jalostotitlan de México. Se muestran lo que está disponible y, a continuación, haga clic en registros de la iglesias y notas de la película. Las notas de la película se mostrarán todas las películas y sus números de llamada.

from my own personal experience I found baptism and civil birth registrations are not always the same year.  My gr-grandmother was registered one year after her baptism and actual birth.  They changed the year so that made her a year younger but I'm told they were fined if they did not register in a timely manner so they were just trying to save money. Had I found the civil birth registration first I would have been off of her actual birth date by one year.  I did find the civil birth registrations listed the ages of the parents but not always the grandparents. I also found they did not always know their correct ages since they varied so much from child to child!  I had to wonder if the witness or padrino was giving the info and just guessing at the ages of the parents?

LInda in B.C.

--- On Wed, 9/23/09, rcordovamba@aol.com wrote:

From: rcordovamba@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Estrada/Gama names
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 2:39 AM

I started my genealogical research less than a year ago and have relied on Family Search and Nuestros Ranchos for all my information.
What else could I do to find new information when I am stuck with lack of information about an ancestor? I go back as far as 1822 and 1797 both in Jalostotitlan. Do you know of any books or other sources to try to get information?
Does anyone know if the Registro Civil in Jalisco is good at finding information if one has the date of birth and place but not sure as to when the child was registered?

Rosie Cordova

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