Hola a todos, viendo el post hoy en cuanto a resultados ADN-Y se me ocurrio que habia dicho que compartiera mis resultados en cuanto me llegaran. Disculpame por no haberlo hecho aunque lo mas seguro es que nadie dejo de dormir por eso ( JA !) Mis Y resultados ADN-Y son E1b1b1a2\Version Corta E-V13. Es el tercer más común haplogrupo entre los hombres de Europea y considerado uno de los bases o fundaciones de los grupos de Europe. Es el unico subgrupo E que se encuentra con baja frecuencia(2% ) en el Norte de Africa. Este subgrupo esta asociado con la península balcánica donde se encuentra el porcentaje mas grande en el mundo de E-V13. Se usa para identificar poblaciones ancianas como los ¿illyrians?, tracios y macedonios y tambien los griegos. Poblaciones modernos que tienen alta porcentaje de E-V13 son albaneses, griegos peloponesos, búlgaros y macedonios.
En España se encuentra en baja cantidad y principalmente esta concentrado en el occidente, los porcentajes son Extremadura (9%), Galicia (7%) y en el Noroeste de Castilla La Vieja (6%). Pensaban, por un tiempo, que se encontraba en España por la exploración y las colonias de los griegos, pero las colonias griegas solamante se encuentran en la costa oriental de las regiones de Cataluña y Valencia. La gran mayoria de “E” ADN-Y en España esta asociado con los bereberes, pero este es subgrupo E-M81.
Una explicación de la llegada a España y el oeste de Europa, de un marcador genético tan predominante en la peninsula balcánica y el mediterráneo oriental, se puede encontrar en un pueblo en Gales llamado Abergele. Hicieron un estudio de los residentes y 7 resultados de los 18 hombres tenian el marcador E-V13. Hicieron otro estudio mas amplio que concluyó que 40% de los hombres en el pueblo tenian el marcador E-V13. Resulta que en la antigüedad Abergele era un pueblo Romano importante. No estaba acuartelado por Romanos\Italianos sino por auxiliares Tracios y otros hombres de origen balcánico. Existe la posibilidad que pasó lo mismo en España, tal vez el marcador llegó con los auxiliarios en el ejército Romano. El marcador E-V13 tambien llegó a Afganistán y Pakistán con los hombres del ejército de Alejandro Magno. Una pequeña porcentaje se encuentra entre los grupos que reclaman que esos hombres son sus antepasados.
¿Que significa todo eso? Pues, una cosa, soy el único E-V13 en el sitio de Gary Felix, “Geneology of Mexico”. Hay otros que tienen los mismos resultados de 12\37, pero no han hecho el análisis “deep clade”, asi que ¿quien sabe? En cuestion de ayudarme con mi estudio genealógico, no ha ayudado hasta el momento. Pienso que mis antepasados posiblemente eran de una de las provincias occidentales, tal vez Extramadura, pero todo es especulación en este momento. Discuplas por aburrirles! Gracias por sus paciencia!

Roberto ~

Traducido por Armando Antuñano

"So what does it all mean?well, for one, I'm the only E-V13 on Gary Felix's website, the “Geneology of Mexico”. There are others who have the same 12 \37 marker results, but have not done the deep clade test, so who knows ? As far as helping me with my genealogy studies, as of yet it has not. I'm thinking that my ancestors in Spain may have come from one of the western provinces, perhaps Extremadura, but it’s all speculation at this point. Sorry to bore you all ! Thanks for your patience!

Robert"

Robert,

You are welcome to email Gary Felix and see what he thinks about your haplogroup but I doubt that you will get more information than what you already expressed. The E-series of haplogroups can be grouped into the Mediterranean/Semitic group of Y-DNA. So, you should not be surprised if you found yourself related to a Jew, a Berber, or whoever was in the southern part of the Mediterranean "pond"---same gene pool, same Semitic/Mediterranean stock.

Gary and a number of us have debated these sort of results ad nauseum for the last five years. Unfortunately, I await a "quantum leap" in this DNA business because all we seem to be doing DNA-wise, in my mind, is grouping us in categories which are well known inhabitants of the Iberian peninsula: Jews, Berbers, Arabs, Celts/Basques, Visigoths (Germans), "Romans," and even the Vikings; all these people invaded the Iberian peninsula. So, your gggggg---ggg grandfather may have been a Jew or a Berber or an Arab or "North African." Hmmm. Yes, but maybe this is not the information you wanted. Maybe it is information you wanted.

Ten generations is approximately 300 years, i.e. gets you back to 1709. One generation is you. The next generation is your mother and father, 2 ancestors. The next generation is your grandparents generation, 4 ancestors. Next generation, 8 ancestors. Etc. etc. Therefore, using math, in 300 years you have 2 to the 10th distinct ancestors. You have 1024 ancestors from 1709 time frame, so your Y-DNA is 1/1024th of those ancestors since it only reflects the Y-DNA of your father's father's father's father's.......father.

Hang in there with this seemingly complicated comment, which in reality is not complicated at all. Admittedly, some of those ancestors probably intermarried so you maybe you have less than 1024 ancestors from 1709. But if there were no intermarriages, then one more generation, the eleventh, gives you 2048 distinct ancestors. Can you imagine if you go back 500-600 years (Isabella and Ferdinand) and there are no intermarriages----a mind boggling number of ancestors.

So. So. What you have to conclude from this type of argument/discussion is that many, many, many of us from a certain area are very, very, very, very likely related because, if you think about it for more than a few minutes and think about how many people there are now and how many few people there were back then, then we have to have many common ancestors in Old Mexico---forget about Iberia, forget the Balkans, forget Europe, forget them and think about the math. Bottom line, there were very few people back then and there are a lot of us now.

We are branches of a few trees. I am trying to not sound condescending; trust me.

As one of my Mexican-American genealogy friends, Robert Tarin says, "we are all related."

Think about it. The math majors will understand in a second.

Ed

p.s. Extremadura is one of the "Rayas de Portugal" where many of the original
settlers (and Jews) of Mexico came from.

Robert,
Thanks for sharing the info. It is interesting to learn about the results of these studies. I think it would be great if your post were translated to Spanish for those in México that participate in Nuestros Ranchos. What area of Jalisco, Zacatecas or Aguascalientes are your Mexican ancestors from?

Armando

Hi Robert,
This was not boring AT ALL. Thank you for taking the time to write out a
fuller explanation of your DNA findings. My grandfather (surname Torres) did
a DNA test which we then did a deep clade on and got the following results:
R1b1b2a1b; or shorthand: R-P312. According to this test, he came up negative
for most mutations (L21- M153- M222- M37- M65- P312+ P66- SRY2627- U152-),
except P312 which I thought was the least "descriptive." I would love any
additional information you or others may have on this DNA result.

-Esperanza

On 6/29/09 10:52 AM, "gandalf3.1@netzero.com"
wrote:

> Hello Everyone, seeing the post today in regards to Y DNA results, It
> occurred to me that I said I would share my results when they came in. Sorry I
> didn't do this sooner, although I'm sure no one was losing sleep over it ( HA
> !) My Y DNA results are E1b1b1a2 \ Shorthand E-V13. It is the 3rd most common
> haplogroup among European men and considered one of the core or founding
> groups in Europe. It is the only E subclade that is found in low frequencies
> (2% ) in N. Africa. This subclade is associated with the Balkans where the
> largest worldwide percentage of E-V13 is found. It is used to identify ancient
> peoples such as the Illyrians, Thracians and Macedonians, as well as Greeks.
> Modern populations that show high percentages of E-V13 are Albanians,
> Peloponnesian Greeks, Bulgarians and Macedonians.
>
> As far as Spain is concerned, it is found in low numbers and mostly confined
> to the west of the country, the highest percentages being found in Extremadura
> (9%), Galicia (7%) and NW Castile (6%). It was, at one time, thought to be
> found in Spain due to ancient Greek exploration and settlement, but Greek
> settlements noted are only found on the east coast in the regions of Cataluña
> and Valencia. The vast majority of ³E² Y DNA in Spain is associated with the
> Berbers, but this is sub clade E-M81.
>
> One theory as to how a DNA marker so prevalent in the Balkans and the Eastern
> Mediterranean made it's way to Western Europe and Spain can be found in a town
> in Wales called Abegele. A study was conducted involving the town and out of
> 18 men tested, 7 tested positive for the marker E-V13. A wider study was
> conducted and it concluded that 40 % of the men in the town carried the E-V13
> marker. It turns out in antiquity; Abergele was an important Roman town. It
> was not garrisoned by Romans \ Italians, but by Thracian auxiliaries and other
> men with a Balkan origin. A similar scenario could also apply to Spain,
> perhaps the marker made it's way there with auxiliaries in the Roman army ?
> The E-V13 marker also found it's way into Afghanistan and Pakistan with the
> men in Alexander the Great's army. A small percentage is found amongst groups
> who claim these men as their ancestors.
>
> So what does it all mean?well, for one, I'm the only E-V13 on Gary Felix's
> website, the ³Geneology of Mexico². There are others who have the same 12 \37
> marker results, but have not done the deep clade test, so who knows ? As far
> as helping me with my genealogy studies, as of yet it has not. I'm thinking
> that my ancestors in Spain may have come from one of the western provinces,
> perhaps Extremadura, but it¹s all speculation at this point. Sorry to bore you
> all ! Thanks for your patience!
>
> Robert ~
>
>
>

Hi Robert:

I also belong to the same Haplogroup as you: E1b1b1- M35. I had my YDNA
analyzed by Genetree.for 36 markers. I am interested in comparing them to
yours to see how many we have in common. Could you please send me a copy of
your markers?

Thank you.

John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:52
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Y DNA Update

> Hello Everyone, seeing the post today in regards to Y DNA results...