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Por elisaakamommy |

What's the name of that book again? Some of my family comes from those
Haciendas.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:05 PM,
wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. "Haciendas de Jalisco y aleda?os" (Susan and Joe Cadena)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 21:07:47 -0700
> From: "Susan and Joe Cadena"
> To:
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Haciendas de Jalisco y aleda?os"
> Message-ID: <002001caecd1$afb623f0$0f226bd0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks to all who responded to my question about this book. I was able to
> obtain it through Interlibrary Loan and I have this copy (from Occidental
> College Library) until May 12. Based on my cursory glance through the book,
> I do not expect to find anything helpful for my own research. (I had been
> hopeful that Hacienda El Salto would be mentioned.)
>
> But I am listing the Table of Contents here in case other members might
> want
> to order the book for their own research:
> I. Como encontraron la Tierra los Conquistadores
> II. Algunas Mercedes del Siglo XVI
> III. Reestructuraciones del Siglo XVII
> IV. M?s cambios en el Siglo XVIII
> V. Mayorazgos de Nueva Galicia y Provincia de Avalos
> VI. Los propiedades Rusticas de la Iglesia en Nueva Galicia y Provincia de
> Avalos, despues Intendencia de Guadalajara. Conclusiones
>
> Some of the specific Haciendas mentioned are: La Venta del Astillero;
> Toluquilla; Cabezon; Portillo; Mazatepec; Ahuacapan Miraflores; Ledezma; La
> Punta; Santa Maria; Jaltomate; Palo Alto; Los Campos; Ojuelos; Penuelos;
> Sauceda; Buenavista.
>
> Unfortunately there is no index, so it is very difficult to find
> information
> about a specific place easily.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>

It's interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda "El Salto Grande" that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the book was checked out. I guess you have it.

It's unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto. It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan, Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.

I'm researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information on this family that I can share.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

I am not at home to check my records but near the valle is a place known as el salto
------Original Message------
From: xalos68@hotmail.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: xalos68@hotmail.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
Sent: May 13, 2010 8:29 PM

It's interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda "El Salto Grande" that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the book was checked out. I guess you have it.

It's unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto. It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan, Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.

I'm researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information on this family that I can share.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Sergio,

I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else's interest in El Salto
- and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
is also in my husband's direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
sharing research results!

Susan Cadena

-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
xalos68@hotmail.com
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

It's interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda "El Salto
Grande" that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
book was checked out. I guess you have it.

It's unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.

I'm researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
on this family that I can share.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

I descend from this line but I have him using a different name. I have him as using Francisco Gutierrez Rubio. I know his mom is Leonor hermosillo but he used his father's last name according to my records.
Francisco and leonor are my 8th grandparents 5 times and my 9th grparents 10 times my 10th grparents 9 times my 11th grparents 2 times
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Susan and Joe Cadena"
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:15:03
To: ;
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

Sergio,

I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else's interest in El Salto
- and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
is also in my husband's direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
sharing research results!

Susan Cadena

-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
xalos68@hotmail.com
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

It's interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda "El Salto
Grande" that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
book was checked out. I guess you have it.

It's unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.

I'm researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
on this family that I can share.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Francisco appears as Gutierrez Rubio in his death certificate but also appears as Gutierrez de Hermosillo in his son's (Lazaro) marriage certificate (Ines de la Mora y Samora)in Ocotlan 1684. I prefer to use Gtz de Hermosillo so that he is not confused with his father's (Miguel) brother Francisco Gtz Rubio.

Sergio Gutierrez

There are a lot more francisco gutierrez de hermosillo in my records so I am going to leave him as I have him. It is important for people studying or ancestors that they went by more than one name, sometimes 3 or 4. When they went by 3 or 4 it was most likely a woman.
------Original Message------
From: xalos68@hotmail.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: xalos68@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
Sent: May 14, 2010 12:17 PM

Francisco appears as Gutierrez Rubio in his death certificate but also appears as Gutierrez de Hermosillo in his son's (Lazaro) marriage certificate (Ines de la Mora y Samora)in Ocotlan 1684. I prefer to use Gtz de Hermosillo so that he is not confused with his father's (Miguel) brother Francisco Gtz Rubio.

Sergio Gutierrez

This Francisco I was named after his grandfather so even if his parents combined Gutierrez de Hermosillo, Francisco used his grandfather's original name Gutierrez Rubio. But even hisgrandfather used to names : Francisco Gutierrez Rubio and Francisco Gutierrez de la Vega.
Daniel

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 18:43:22 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> I descend from this line but I have him using a different name. I have him as using Francisco Gutierrez Rubio. I know his mom is Leonor hermosillo but he used his father's last name according to my records.
> Francisco and leonor are my 8th grandparents 5 times and my 9th grparents 10 times my 10th grparents 9 times my 11th grparents 2 times
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Susan and Joe Cadena"
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:15:03
> To: ;
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> Sergio,
>
> I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
> back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else's interest in El Salto
> - and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
> is also in my husband's direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
> sharing research results!
>
> Susan Cadena
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
> xalos68@hotmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> It's interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda "El Salto
> Grande" that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
> on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
> book was checked out. I guess you have it.
>
> It's unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
> who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
> Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
> heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
> on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
> It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
> car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
> Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.
>
> I'm researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
> Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
> are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
> on this family that I can share.
>
> Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Is there actual documentation proving that Francisco Gtz Rubio (de la Vega) was Francisco (Juana de Lomelin's Husband) Gtz Rubio's (de Hermosillo)grandfather. I know this information is given in the Retoños book and in other books as well, but is there actual documentation, such as a will, marriage, baptism or death record proving the relationship?

I know that Francisco Gtz Rubio (de Hermosillo) was the son of Miguel Gtz Rubio and Leonor de Hermosillo because this information is provided by Leonor's will/death certificate.

I know that Miguel was the grandson of Diego Gonzalez and Maria Rubio, because that information appears in the entries of the cofradia de la animas of jalos (1628).

My question is how do we know Francisco (El Viejo or I) Gtz Rubio was Miguel's father and Francisco Gtz Rubio's (de Hermosillo) grandfather. I know that the Retoños book (and other books that quote Retoños) says that this is true but is there an actual document, such a will, death or baptism record proving this relationship?

This is one of my brick walls.

Hopefully someone can provide answer to my question.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo

Check Jaime holcombes work. I believe that he provided documentation.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: xalos68@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 21:09:40
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

Is there actual documentation proving that Francisco Gtz Rubio (de la Vega) was Francisco (Juana de Lomelin's Husband) Gtz Rubio's (de Hermosillo)grandfather. I know this information is given in the Retoños book and in other books as well, but is there actual documentation, such as a will, marriage, baptism or death record proving the relationship?

I know that Francisco Gtz Rubio (de Hermosillo) was the son of Miguel Gtz Rubio and Leonor de Hermosillo because this information is provided by Leonor's will/death certificate.

I know that Miguel was the grandson of Diego Gonzalez and Maria Rubio, because that information appears in the entries of the cofradia de la animas of jalos (1628).

My question is how do we know Francisco (El Viejo or I) Gtz Rubio was Miguel's father and Francisco Gtz Rubio's (de Hermosillo) grandfather. I know that the Retoños book (and other books that quote Retoños) says that this is true but is there an actual document, such a will, death or baptism record proving this relationship?

This is one of my brick walls.

Hopefully someone can provide answer to my question.

Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo

Wonderful job Luigi (aka Alex Mercado)...WOW!!!!

You indeed found the marriage of Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo and Juana de Lomelín, ancestors to many of us!!! I am stunned...jaw on the floor.

I verified the date, 21 Nov 1652, and it fits. Records indicate that Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo and Juana de Lomelín began having children right around 1651-1652. We will have to re-calculate the ages of their children in light of this very concrete marriage date, 21 November 1652.

Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo and Juana de Lomelín - 21 Noviembre 1652, Guadalajara

"Fran.co gutiéres, doña Ju.a Lomelín ----- En veinte y vno de noviembre de Sinqu.ta y dos su señoría Yllustríssima desposó y veló, a Fran.co gutiérres Y a doña Juana Lomelí Y assistí Yo al dicho oficio, testigos don Fran.co rincón Y don manuel gallardo. . . . Fran.co Gallegos (rúbrica) Sacristán m.or "

Fuente: Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1979, Guadalajara, Sagrario Metropolitano, Defunciones 1641-1730 [Image 67 of 733]

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18380-1165-18?cc=1874591&wc=…

I immediately began to transcribe it, copy the source, download the image, and insert the data and image in my family tree. Unfortunately, literally no valuable data can be gleaned from the meager record. It does not mention where they were from or even the fact that Juana was the widow of Rodrigo de Carbajal. Nothing!

Then I searched this marriage document in FamilySearch.org and nothing. So the marriages located amongst these burials are not on the FamilySearch database. We're going to have to go fishing.

Muchas muchas gracias
Tu primo Paco

Congratulations for the great discovery. I was pleased to receive the news earlier today and was very glad. It is unfortunate that the record does not mention anymore information, but maybe we can find an "información matrimonial" if it exists. This is another reason why we have to continue to study all these microfilms, we are never sure what we will find or if records in this case marriage records are mixed with others.
Interesting to note, below the record of Francisco and Juana, we find the marriage record of Lucas Alonso and María Ortiz de Anda, based on the age and location she should be the daughter I have been looking for as a legitimate daughter of Esteban de Pastraña and Catalina Ortiz de Anda. In the will and testament that Esteban issued prior to his death he mentions his daughter "María Ortiz de Anda" but does not mention she is married which I suppose this was prior to her marriage. More information will be needed to and much research done. I will search through these mixed marriages.
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino

Hello everyone,

I'm pretty sure that all of you serious Alteño genealogists have this source in your notes already, but I thought it would be nice to share.

On 6 May 1682, our direct ancestor signed in his own hand at the bottom of the left-hand side page..."Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo". And directly to the left is the signature of his brother, el Bachiller Lázaro Gutiérrez de Hermosillo. Two brothers' signatures side by side. Very cool.

Below is a transcription of his statement and the source.

[Image 80 of 614]
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-28727-41?cc=1874591&wc…

Declaración y firma de Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo - 6 Nov 1682, La Hacienda de Mezcala, Zapotlanejo

"En la dha Hazienda de Mexcala Jur.ón de tZapotlán en los dhos seis días del mes de Noviembre de mill y seiscientos y ochenta y dos años; para la informazión que offrece el dho Benito Muños de la barva press.tó ante mí, por ttestigo a Francisco Gutiérrez de Hermosillo Vez.o desta dha Jur.ón al qual rezeví Juram.to que lo que supiere y le fuere preguntado diga; so cargo del qual prometió decir V.d fuele preguntado si conoçe al dho Benito Muños de la Barva y a Estephanía de Quesada; si save que sean libres y solteros para poder contraher el matrimonio que pretenden; si save que ayan echo Votos de castidad o rreligión; o sean cassados; o ayan dado palabra de cassam.to; o sean parientes affines o consanguíneos lo diga; si save qual sea la causa por que pretenden dispensaçión de amonestaciones; y si la dha estephanía de quesada es Vez.a de más a.s de S.n Juan a ttodo lo qual responde y diçe que conoçe a los sus dhos por que los vido naçer y criar y que save no ser parientes por ninguna vía ni manera; ni save oigan hecho voto de rreligión o de castidad, ni ser parientes por ningún camino y que la causa de pedir y supp.car as su illustrísima dispense en las Vanas es por rezelo de que no quieren sus hermanos por detrimento de sus personas; so cargo del Juram.to que hiço a Dios N. S.r y a la señal de la S.ta cruz diçe ser esta la Ver.d de lo que dho ttiene en que se affirmó y rratificó y ser el dho Benito Muños de la barva su primo hermano deste tt.o no por esso dexó de deçir la V.d en ttodo lo que dho ttiene declaró ser de edad de sesenta y ocho años pocos más, y lo firmó conmigo dho Juez = . . . B.r Lázaro Gutiérrez de hermozillo (rúbrica) . . . Fran.co gutiérres rubio de hermosillo (rúbrica) . . .
Ante mí
Fran.co Agúndiz (rúbrica)
N.o N.do"

A base de la edad de poco más de 68 años de edad que declara en la fecha de 6 de noviembre de 1682 (1682-68=1614), se puede calcular que nació en 1614 o antes. Es razonable entonces deducir que nació razonablemente entre 1610 y 1614. Francisco menciona que es primo hermano del pretenso Benito Muñoz de la Barba. El padre de Francisco y la madre de Benito eran hermanos. Simplifiqué aquí su parentesco:

Tronco . . . . . . . . [Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio I & Ana González Florida I]
. . . . . . . [Miguel Gutiérrez Rubio] . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . [Catalina González de la Reguera]
. . . . . . . [+Leonor de Hermosillo] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [+Francisco Muñoz de la Barba]
. . Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo . . 2 . . . . . . . Benito Muñoz de la Barba

Fuente: Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1979, Guadalajara, Diócesis de Guadalajara, Matrimonios 1689-1698, 1796 [Image 80 of 614]

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-28727-41?cc=1874591&wc…
________________________________________________

Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo (aka Francisco Gutiérrez de Hermosillo, Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio, or just Francisco Gutiérrez), born ca. 1610-1614, married to Juana de Lomelín are also my ancestors. I descend from their daughter Leonor de Hermosillo, married ca. 1676, to Juan de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza.

And for those of you who like signatures, I also have in my notes the signature of Juan de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza, son-in-law of Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo. Juan de la Mora’s signature is on the left page, and as added bonus, on the right page is the signature of Lucas Romero de Chávez, husband of Petronila González de Hermosillo (daughter of Juan González de Hermosillo III, and niece of Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo). Lucas Romero is precisely the one person in world history after whom Mezcala de los Romero was named. It was Lucas…he was “THE” Romero!!!

Firmas de Juan de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza & Lucas Romero de Chávez - 12 Diciembre 1708, Tepatitlán

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-2683-12?cc=1874591&wc=…

(I try to maintain very detailed notes.)

Well primos, I hope this is helpful to you all.

SFHL

Hello Stephen,

This is great. I know many of us appreciate you sharing your research.
As you know I also descend from Francisco Gtz Rubio y Hermosillo several times.
I have a question about the signature on the left. Would that be of his brother who was a priest?
Was he acting as the priest in this dispensa?

Thanks, Irma Gomez Gtz

----- Original Message -----

From: PacoHernandez73@msn.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2015 2:54:57 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Declaración y firma de Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo

Hello everyone, I'm pretty sure that all of you serious Alteño genealogists
have this source in your notes already, but I thought it would be nice to
share. On 6 May 1682, our direct ancestor signed in his own hand at the
bottom of the left-hand side page..."Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y
Hermosillo". Below is a transcription of his statement and the source. [Image
80 of 614]
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-28727-41?cc=1874591&wc…
Declaración y firma de Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo - 6 Nov 1682,
La Hacienda de Mezcala, Zapotlanejo "En la dha Hazienda de Mexcala Jur.ón de
tZapotlán en los dhos seis días del mes de Noviembre de mill y seiscientos
y ochenta y dos años; para la informazión que offrece el dho Benito Muños
de la barva press.tó ante mí, por ttestigo a Francisco Gutiérrez de
Hermosillo Vez.o desta dha Jur.ón al qual rezeví Juram.to que lo que
supiere y le fuere preguntado diga; so cargo del qual prometió decir V.d
fuele preguntado si conoçe al dho Benito Muños de la Barva y a Estephanía
de Quesada; si save que sean libres y solteros para poder contraher el
matrimonio que pretenden; si save que ayan echo Votos de castidad o
rreligión; o sean cassados; o ayan dado palabra de cassam.to; o sean
parientes affines o consanguíneos lo diga; si save qual sea la causa por que
pretenden dispensaçión de amonestaciones; y si la dha estephanía de
quesada es Vez.a de más a.s de S.n Juan a ttodo lo qual responde y diçe que
conoçe a los sus dhos por que los vido naçer y criar y que save no ser
parientes por ninguna vía ni manera; ni save oigan hecho voto de rreligión
o de castidad, ni ser parientes por ningún camino y que la causa de pedir y
supp.car as su illustrísima dispense en las Vanas es por rezelo de que no
quieren sus hermanos por detrimento de sus personas; so cargo del Juram.to
que hiço a Dios N. S.r y a la señal de la S.ta cruz diçe ser esta la Ver.d
de lo que dho ttiene en que se affirmó y rratificó y ser el dho Benito
Muños de la barva su primo hermano deste tt.o no por esso dexó de deçir la
V.d en ttodo lo que dho ttiene declaró ser de edad de sesenta y ocho años
pocos más, y lo firmó conmigo dho Juez = . . . B.r Lázaro Gutiérrez de
hermozillo (rúbrica) . . . Fran.co gutiérres rubio de hermosillo (rúbrica)
. . . Ante mí Fran.co Agúndiz (rúbrica) N.o N.do" A base de la edad de
poco más de 68 años de edad que declara en la fecha de 6 de noviembre de
1682 (1682-68=1614), se puede calcular que nació en 1614 o antes. Es
razonable entonces deducir que nació razonablemente entre 1610 y 1614.
Francisco menciona que es primo hermano del pretenso Benito Muñoz de la
Barba. El padre de Francisco y la madre de Benito eran hermanos. Simplifiqué
aquí su parentesco: Tronco . . . . . . . . [Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio I &
Ana González Florida I] . . . . . . . [Miguel Gutiérrez Rubio] . . . . . .
. . .1 . . . . [Catalina González de la Reguera] . . . . . . . [+Leonor de
Hermosillo] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [+Francisco Muñoz de la Barba] . .
Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo . . 2 . . . . . . . Benito Muñoz de
la Barba Fuente: Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1979,
Guadalajara, Diócesis de Guadalajara, Matrimonios 1689-1698, 1796 [Image 80
of 614]
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-28727-41?cc=1874591&wc…
________________________________________________ Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y
Hermosillo (aka Francisco Gutiérrez de Hermosillo, Francisco Gutiérrez
Rubio, or just Francisco Gutiérrez), born ca. 1610-1614, married to Juana de
Lomelín are also my ancestors. I descend from their daughter Leonor de
Hermosillo, married ca. 1676, to Juan de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza. And for
those of you who like signatures, I also have in my notes the signature of
Juan de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza, son-in-law of Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio
y Hermosillo. Juan de la Mora’s signature is on the left page, and as added
bonus, on the right page is the signature of Lucas Romero de Chávez, husband
of Petronila González de Hermosillo (daughter of Juan González de
Hermosillo III, and niece of Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo). Lucas
Romero is precisely the one person in world history after whom Mezcala de los
Romero was named. It was Lucas…he was “THE” Romero!!! Firmas de Juan de
la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza & Lucas Romero de Chávez - 12 Diciembre 1708,
Tepatitlán
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-2683-12?cc=1874591&wc=…
(I try to maintain very detailed notes.) Well primos, I hope this is helpful
to you all. SFHL

No hay de que...

And yes...On 6 May 1682, our direct ancestor signed in his own hand at the bottom of the left-hand side page..."Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y Hermosillo".

And directly to the left is the signature of his brother the priest, el Bachiller Lázaro Gutiérrez de Hermosillo. Two brothers' signatures side by side. Very cool.

Below is the source.

[Image 80 of 614]
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-28727-41?cc=1874591&wc…

Luisa flores rubin es la esposa de andres estrada bocanegra. Luisa es hija de de Pedro Alvarez y Ana Flores De La Torre (AKA Ana Flores Rubi). Ana Flores de La Torre is hija de Diego Flores de La Torre y Angela de Figueroa
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 09:10:48
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande

This Francisco I was named after his grandfather so even if his parents combined Gutierrez de Hermosillo, Francisco used his grandfather's original name Gutierrez Rubio. But even hisgrandfather used to names : Francisco Gutierrez Rubio and Francisco Gutierrez de la Vega.
Daniel

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 18:43:22 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> I descend from this line but I have him using a different name. I have him as using Francisco Gutierrez Rubio. I know his mom is Leonor hermosillo but he used his father's last name according to my records.
> Francisco and leonor are my 8th grandparents 5 times and my 9th grparents 10 times my 10th grparents 9 times my 11th grparents 2 times
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Susan and Joe Cadena"
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:15:03
> To: ;
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> Sergio,
>
> I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
> back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else's interest in El Salto
> - and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
> is also in my husband's direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
> sharing research results!
>
> Susan Cadena
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
> xalos68@hotmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
> It's interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda "El Salto
> Grande" that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
> on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
> book was checked out. I guess you have it.
>
> It's unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
> who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
> Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
> heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
> on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
> It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
> car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
> Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.
>
> I'm researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
> Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
> are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
> on this family that I can share.
>
> Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

Tengo sospecho que este PEdro Alvarez era pariente de los Alvarez de Sandi y los Alvarez Tostado.Ya que era originario de Teocaltiche, y hay unos fuentes que da la senda a esta conexcion.
Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 06:51:26 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Flores Rubi
>
> Luisa flores rubin es la esposa de andres estrada bocanegra. Luisa es hija de de Pedro Alvarez y Ana Flores De La Torre (AKA Ana Flores Rubi). Ana Flores de La Torre is hija de Diego Flores de La Torre y Angela de Figueroa
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
> Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 09:10:48
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>
>
> This Francisco I was named after his grandfather so even if his parents combined Gutierrez de Hermosillo, Francisco used his grandfather's original name Gutierrez Rubio. But even hisgrandfather used to names : Francisco Gutierrez Rubio and Francisco Gutierrez de la Vega.
> Daniel
>
>
>> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
>> Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 18:43:22 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>>
>> I descend from this line but I have him using a different name. I have him as using Francisco Gutierrez Rubio. I know his mom is Leonor hermosillo but he used his father's last name according to my records.
>> Francisco and leonor are my 8th grandparents 5 times and my 9th grparents 10 times my 10th grparents 9 times my 11th grparents 2 times
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Susan and Joe Cadena"
>> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:15:03
>> To: ;
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>>
>> Sergio,
>>
>> I returned the book to my library on Tuesday, so Occidental should have it
>> back any day now. I am happy to hear of someone else's interest in El Salto
>> - and the line of Francisco Gtz de Hermosillo and Juana Lomelin. Francisco
>> is also in my husband's direct paternal line, and we are most interested in
>> sharing research results!
>>
>> Susan Cadena
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
>> xalos68@hotmail.com
>> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:30 PM
>> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hacienda El Salto Grande
>>
>> It's interesting that you are looking for the same hacienda "El Salto
>> Grande" that I been researching but have not found definitive inforamation
>> on it. I was planning on visiting Occindential last weekend but saw that the
>> book was checked out. I guess you have it.
>>
>> It's unfortunate that you were not able to find information on it. My cousin
>> who lives in Jalostotitlan, married a lady from Tepatitlan. He told the the
>> Hacienda is located about 5 leguas de Tepatitlan, which is about 20km. He
>> heard the hacienda lies between Tepa and Yahualica. If you do a google map
>> on the area, the road to Yahualica, you will find a Ranch called El Salto.
>> It might be were the hacienda was once located. This summer I plan to rent a
>> car and visit some to the cities my ancestors lived, Ocotlan, Mexticacan,
>> Cuquio, Tepa and of course Jalos.
>>
>> I'm researching the decendents of Franciscos Gtz de Hermosillo (Rubio) and
>> Juana de Lomelin. This is my father direct paternal line. Not sure if you
>> are researching this same line. If you are, I have a lot detail information
>> on this family that I can share.
>>
>> Sergio Gutierrez de Hermosillo y Martin del Campo

The book is called "Haciendas de Jalisco y aledaños 1506-1821", by Ricardo
Lancaster-Jones.

-----Original Message-----
From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Elisa Joyce
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:23 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] General Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1

What's the name of that book again? Some of my family comes from those
Haciendas.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:05 PM,
wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. "Haciendas de Jalisco y aleda?os" (Susan and Joe Cadena)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 21:07:47 -0700
> From: "Susan and Joe Cadena"
> To:
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] "Haciendas de Jalisco y aleda?os"
> Message-ID: <002001caecd1$afb623f0$0f226bd0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks to all who responded to my question about this book. I was able to
> obtain it through Interlibrary Loan and I have this copy (from Occidental
> College Library) until May 12. Based on my cursory glance through the
book,
> I do not expect to find anything helpful for my own research. (I had been
> hopeful that Hacienda El Salto would be mentioned.)
>
> But I am listing the Table of Contents here in case other members might
> want
> to order the book for their own research:
> I. Como encontraron la Tierra los Conquistadores
> II. Algunas Mercedes del Siglo XVI
> III. Reestructuraciones del Siglo XVII
> IV. M?s cambios en el Siglo XVIII
> V. Mayorazgos de Nueva Galicia y Provincia de Avalos
> VI. Los propiedades Rusticas de la Iglesia en Nueva Galicia y Provincia de
> Avalos, despues Intendencia de Guadalajara. Conclusiones
>
> Some of the specific Haciendas mentioned are: La Venta del Astillero;
> Toluquilla; Cabezon; Portillo; Mazatepec; Ahuacapan Miraflores; Ledezma;
La
> Punta; Santa Maria; Jaltomate; Palo Alto; Los Campos; Ojuelos; Penuelos;
> Sauceda; Buenavista.
>
> Unfortunately there is no index, so it is very difficult to find
> information about a specific place easily.
>
>

History, Culture and General Discussion