This PBS documentary is quite enlightening on the issue of race in Mexico. It focuses on the history of Afro-Mexicans but addresses the issue of the Cosmic race and the political motivations behind having people "forget" their race. This was a deliberate attempt to counter the centuries under Spanish rule where legal rights were granted based on people's castes, which were largely based on race.
It is highly unlikely that any Mexican whose family was in Mexico during colonial times does not have African blood somewhere down the line. The number of Africans brought to Mexico was quite large and they intermarried quite early in Mexican colonial history.
You should also take a look at the casta paintings in the Albums section of the site.
aflores: I am wondering why you think "Mexicans" don't have a race, only ethnicity. It has been my experience with Mexican-Americans and newly immigrated Mexicans that they themselves seem to think of "Mexican" as a race. I saw in Mexico that they classify themselves as "gueros" and "morenos", and in the case of a very large African American male tourist there with his family, a little brown-skinned girl said, "Mira los negritos", as if she was viewing something in a zoo.
Now that I have been into genealogy for years and seen the records of my ancestors in Mexico and New Mexico, I see that they were all races: Mulatto, Indio, Espanol, and in New Mexico, the tribe was identified----"Piro, Tigua, Manso, Apache, navajo", etc.
When I am asked to check the boxes, I check off first Hispanic (or Latino) since my folks spoke Spanish, but they did not follow the foods and customs of other Hispanics such as the Puerto Ricans and Cubans. Mexico is next door, many of our current states were once part of Mexico, so culturally that is what we are, no matter our color. As for race, I check Black, white, Native American, and Mixed. How they will eventually address that in their statistics, I don't know and don't care. I am all those.
That article in the New York times is exellent and seems to reflect our thinking as "Mexican-Americans" or "Latinos". Too bad people still make generalizations just from our outer appearance---color, etc.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: aflore2855@gmail.com
> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:05:54 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] WHY DON'T MEXICANS HAVE A RACE??
>
> I was wondering why Mexican people don't have a race only ethnicity?
I put "black" as one of my races because in researching my genealogy, I came across many people in two of my father's lines in Zacatecas who were described as "mulato". Mulato was a Spaniard mixed with a black slave. President Obama is a mulato. His mother was white, his father a black man from Africa. So unless you discover a "mulato" in one of your lines, you don't have to put "black".
We Hispanics or "Mexicans" come in many shades. My husband's lines in Mexico were all described as espanol, and he is often mistaken for an Anglo or gringo, he is very white. I found only one "indio" in his ancestry way back in the early 1700s in Aguascalientes, but his Indian blood is so diluted now. He puts his race down as "caucasian" or white. I am often mistaken for Filipino or Thai or Native American.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: aflore2855@gmail.com
> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:43:01 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] (no subject)
>
> Abram Flores
> That is some excellent information thanks.Now i know what to bubble when the census comes but im really not sure about black.
The concept of "race" appears to be rather complex, and is often inter-mixed with "ethnicity" and "nationality."
The wikipedia article on Race (Classifications of Humans) appears objective and has some interesting thoughts. To extract two brief segments:
By the 1970s, it had become clear that
(1) most human differences were cultural;
(2) what was not cultural was principally polymorphic – that is to say, found in diverse groups of people at different frequencies;
(3) what was not cultural or polymorphic was principally clinal – that is to say, gradually variable over geography; and
(4) what was left – the component of human diversity that was not cultural, polymorphic, or clinal – was very small.
A consensus consequently developed among anthropologists and geneticists that race as the previous generation had known it – as largely discrete, geographically distinct, gene pools – did not exist.
Another extract, applying specifically to people of Hispanic (or Latino) descent:
The term "Hispanic" as an ethnonym emerged in the 20th century with the rise of migration of laborers from American Spanish-speaking countries to the United States. Today, the word "Latino" is often used as a synonym for "Hispanic". The definitions of both terms are non-race specific, and include people who consider themselves to be of distinct races (Black, White, Amerindian, Asian, and mixed groups). However, there is a common misconception in the US that Hispanic/Latino is a race or sometimes even that national origins such as Mexican, Cuban, Colombian, Salvadoran, etc. are races. In contrast to "Latino" or "Hispanic", "Anglo" refers to non-Hispanic White Americans or non-Hispanic European Americans, most of whom speak the English language but are not necessarily of English descent.
Personally, I like one of the conclusions of the Genographics Project: "race" has no scientific validity, and the differences between people are truly only skin deep.
I agree with you that race has no scientific validity. Race is a construct that has been useful to excuse the division of people into classes. It is in this way that a persons natural rights are violated. How could anyone have ever explained slavery in the Americas without the illusion of race?
Through genealogy I have found my ancestors to be from many diverse cultures and I embrace all of them.
Rick A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
The concept of "race" appears to be rather complex, and is often inter-mixed with "ethnicity" and "nationality."
The wikipedia article on Race (Classifications of Humans) appears objective and has some interesting thoughts. To extract two brief segments:
By the 1970s, it had become clear that
(1) most human differences were cultural;
(2) what was not cultural was principally polymorphic – that is to say, found in diverse groups of people at different frequencies;
(3) what was not cultural or polymorphic was principally clinal – that is to say, gradually variable over geography; and
(4) what was left – the component of human diversity that was not cultural, polymorphic, or clinal – was very small.
A consensus consequently developed among anthropologists and geneticists that race as the previous generation had known it – as largely discrete, geographically distinct, gene pools – did not exist.
Another extract, applying specifically to people of Hispanic (or Latino) descent:
The term "Hispanic" as an ethnonym emerged in the 20th century with the rise of migration of laborers from American Spanish-speaking countries to the United States. Today, the word "Latino" is often used as a synonym for "Hispanic". The definitions of both terms are non-race specific, and include people who consider themselves to be of distinct races (Black, White, Amerindian, Asian, and mixed groups). However, there is a common misconception in the US that Hispanic/Latino is a race or sometimes even that national origins such as Mexican, Cuban, Colombian, Salvadoran, etc. are races. In contrast to "Latino" or "Hispanic", "Anglo" refers to non-Hispanic White Americans or non-Hispanic European Americans, most of whom speak the English language but are not necessarily of English descent.
Personally, I like one of the conclusions of the Genographics Project: "race" has no scientific validity, and the differences between people are truly only skin deep.
.
>
>
>
> I need help in understanding the meaning of a birth record. initials P. P. after the parents information. Is it Padrinos or Abuelos??
Its the birth record of Joseph Maria Feliz Perez Franco from San Juan de los Lagos August 7, 1756 you can do a quick find in page 15
>
> Miggy
>
>
Are you sure it is PP instead of AP? Normally it is AP for Abuelos Paternos and AM for abuelos Maternos...
You'll normally find the Padrinos toward the end of the document.
Blacks in Mexico
This PBS documentary is quite enlightening on the issue of race in Mexico. It focuses on the history of Afro-Mexicans but addresses the issue of the Cosmic race and the political motivations behind having people "forget" their race. This was a deliberate attempt to counter the centuries under Spanish rule where legal rights were granted based on people's castes, which were largely based on race.
http://video.pbs.org/video/1915580662
It is highly unlikely that any Mexican whose family was in Mexico during colonial times does not have African blood somewhere down the line. The number of Africans brought to Mexico was quite large and they intermarried quite early in Mexican colonial history.
You should also take a look at the casta paintings in the Albums section of the site.
Blacks in Mexico
Thank you for the link. I love Prof. Gates' work! Can't wait to see his upcoming "Finding Your Roots" series on PBS March 25th.
WHY DON'T MEXICANS HAVE A RACE??
aflores: I am wondering why you think "Mexicans" don't have a race, only ethnicity. It has been my experience with Mexican-Americans and newly immigrated Mexicans that they themselves seem to think of "Mexican" as a race. I saw in Mexico that they classify themselves as "gueros" and "morenos", and in the case of a very large African American male tourist there with his family, a little brown-skinned girl said, "Mira los negritos", as if she was viewing something in a zoo.
Now that I have been into genealogy for years and seen the records of my ancestors in Mexico and New Mexico, I see that they were all races: Mulatto, Indio, Espanol, and in New Mexico, the tribe was identified----"Piro, Tigua, Manso, Apache, navajo", etc.
When I am asked to check the boxes, I check off first Hispanic (or Latino) since my folks spoke Spanish, but they did not follow the foods and customs of other Hispanics such as the Puerto Ricans and Cubans. Mexico is next door, many of our current states were once part of Mexico, so culturally that is what we are, no matter our color. As for race, I check Black, white, Native American, and Mixed. How they will eventually address that in their statistics, I don't know and don't care. I am all those.
That article in the New York times is exellent and seems to reflect our thinking as "Mexican-Americans" or "Latinos". Too bad people still make generalizations just from our outer appearance---color, etc.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: aflore2855@gmail.com
> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:05:54 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] WHY DON'T MEXICANS HAVE A RACE??
>
> I was wondering why Mexican people don't have a race only ethnicity?
[Nuestros Ranchos]
Abram Flores
That is some excellent information thanks.Now i know what to bubble when the census comes but im really not sure about black.
(no subject) Race
Abram,
I put "black" as one of my races because in researching my genealogy, I came across many people in two of my father's lines in Zacatecas who were described as "mulato". Mulato was a Spaniard mixed with a black slave. President Obama is a mulato. His mother was white, his father a black man from Africa. So unless you discover a "mulato" in one of your lines, you don't have to put "black".
We Hispanics or "Mexicans" come in many shades. My husband's lines in Mexico were all described as espanol, and he is often mistaken for an Anglo or gringo, he is very white. I found only one "indio" in his ancestry way back in the early 1700s in Aguascalientes, but his Indian blood is so diluted now. He puts his race down as "caucasian" or white. I am often mistaken for Filipino or Thai or Native American.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: aflore2855@gmail.com
> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:43:01 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] (no subject)
>
> Abram Flores
> That is some excellent information thanks.Now i know what to bubble when the census comes but im really not sure about black.
WHY DON'T MEXICANS HAVE A
There was some measure of controversy about this during the 2010 US Census campaign.
Perhaps this New York Times article can help explain a portion of sentiments on the topic:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/14/us/for-many-latinos-race-is-more-cult…
Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com
Some thoughts on race
The concept of "race" appears to be rather complex, and is often inter-mixed with "ethnicity" and "nationality."
The wikipedia article on Race (Classifications of Humans) appears objective and has some interesting thoughts. To extract two brief segments:
By the 1970s, it had become clear that
(1) most human differences were cultural;
(2) what was not cultural was principally polymorphic – that is to say, found in diverse groups of people at different frequencies;
(3) what was not cultural or polymorphic was principally clinal – that is to say, gradually variable over geography; and
(4) what was left – the component of human diversity that was not cultural, polymorphic, or clinal – was very small.
A consensus consequently developed among anthropologists and geneticists that race as the previous generation had known it – as largely discrete, geographically distinct, gene pools – did not exist.
Another extract, applying specifically to people of Hispanic (or Latino) descent:
The term "Hispanic" as an ethnonym emerged in the 20th century with the rise of migration of laborers from American Spanish-speaking countries to the United States. Today, the word "Latino" is often used as a synonym for "Hispanic". The definitions of both terms are non-race specific, and include people who consider themselves to be of distinct races (Black, White, Amerindian, Asian, and mixed groups). However, there is a common misconception in the US that Hispanic/Latino is a race or sometimes even that national origins such as Mexican, Cuban, Colombian, Salvadoran, etc. are races. In contrast to "Latino" or "Hispanic", "Anglo" refers to non-Hispanic White Americans or non-Hispanic European Americans, most of whom speak the English language but are not necessarily of English descent.
Personally, I like one of the conclusions of the Genographics Project: "race" has no scientific validity, and the differences between people are truly only skin deep.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Some thoughts on race
I agree with you that race has no scientific validity. Race is a construct that has been useful to excuse the division of people into classes. It is in this way that a persons natural rights are violated. How could anyone have ever explained slavery in the Americas without the illusion of race?
Through genealogy I have found my ancestors to be from many diverse cultures and I embrace all of them.
Rick A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: gpf13@aol.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:40:31
To:
Reply-To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Some thoughts on race
The concept of "race" appears to be rather complex, and is often inter-mixed with "ethnicity" and "nationality."
The wikipedia article on Race (Classifications of Humans) appears objective and has some interesting thoughts. To extract two brief segments:
By the 1970s, it had become clear that
(1) most human differences were cultural;
(2) what was not cultural was principally polymorphic – that is to say, found in diverse groups of people at different frequencies;
(3) what was not cultural or polymorphic was principally clinal – that is to say, gradually variable over geography; and
(4) what was left – the component of human diversity that was not cultural, polymorphic, or clinal – was very small.
A consensus consequently developed among anthropologists and geneticists that race as the previous generation had known it – as largely discrete, geographically distinct, gene pools – did not exist.
Another extract, applying specifically to people of Hispanic (or Latino) descent:
The term "Hispanic" as an ethnonym emerged in the 20th century with the rise of migration of laborers from American Spanish-speaking countries to the United States. Today, the word "Latino" is often used as a synonym for "Hispanic". The definitions of both terms are non-race specific, and include people who consider themselves to be of distinct races (Black, White, Amerindian, Asian, and mixed groups). However, there is a common misconception in the US that Hispanic/Latino is a race or sometimes even that national origins such as Mexican, Cuban, Colombian, Salvadoran, etc. are races. In contrast to "Latino" or "Hispanic", "Anglo" refers to non-Hispanic White Americans or non-Hispanic European Americans, most of whom speak the English language but are not necessarily of English descent.
Personally, I like one of the conclusions of the Genographics Project: "race" has no scientific validity, and the differences between people are truly only skin deep.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Need help in understanding initials P. P.
I need help in understanding the meaning of a birth record. initials P. P. after the parents information. Is it Padrinos or Abuelos??
Miggy
Need help in understanding initials P. P.
.
>
>
>
> I need help in understanding the meaning of a birth record. initials P. P. after the parents information. Is it Padrinos or Abuelos??
Its the birth record of Joseph Maria Feliz Perez Franco from San Juan de los Lagos August 7, 1756 you can do a quick find in page 15
>
> Miggy
>
>
Need help in understanding initials P. P.
Hi Miggy:
Are you sure it is PP instead of AP? Normally it is AP for Abuelos Paternos and AM for abuelos Maternos...
You'll normally find the Padrinos toward the end of the document.
John Gonzalez.
Padrinos
Before 1800 when the Abuelos were not usually expressed, PP. stands for Padrinos, sometimes also abbreviated as Pad.s or P.os
Steven Francisco Hernández López