Records for "No Pagados" and some others.
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Oigalo, Arturo! buen idea Jose Roman! |
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Oigalo, Arturo! buen idea Jose Roman! |
Great Stories Elvira. . .i didn't know about the "No Pago" records but just had a feeling that there were and continue to be an assortment of records in each parish that have not been microfilmed and have not been made available to the general public. Your stories show this is true. Thanks for sharing and keep your accounts coming.
If you ever want to get some of your families oral history recorded and up on my podcast let me know. This
Excellent Calavera. How cool is that.Muy bien dicho!Irma
From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Puentes
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 12:39 AM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] CALAVERA POEMSforgive me. . .I meant to reply the same day but decided to wait and
then promptly forgot.
wow! you make me feel like a god. . .how many can say they've had poety
written for them. I'm sure this will make my wife jealous, I can wait to
tell her!
Thank you Yolanda, what a nice thought and yes I do believe I'm getting
help from my primos, tios, tias, etc.
muchisimas
Joseph:
You can move me if you want...I need to do a better job of listing my family tree anyway!
Mickey
Joseph:
I go for "fair but restrict'.....we can also join Jonathan's group.
Mickey
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thanks Emilie for this contribution:
Hi, Joseph,
I don't know if we can attach files to send to the group in an
e-mail, so I am sending the attached file to you to see if you think it is appropriate for the group. It is a speech made in 1998 by Mariano Gonzalez-Leal to the II Encuentro Internacional Oratorio de San Felipe Neri Mexico 1998. I have seen this author mentioned by the group so I started browsing the internet to see where I could find his books, and I found this. Apparently he was speaking to a group of priests, and he was appealing to them to help us in our role in the third millenium. The speech touched on some of what some of us have been exclaiming about: that the average Anglo here is so |
forgive me. . .I meant to reply the same day but decided to wait
and
then promptly forgot.
wow! you make me feel like a god. . .how
many can say they've had poety
written for them. I'm sure this will make my
wife jealous, I can wait to
tell her!
Thank you Yolanda, what a nice
thought and yes I do believe I'm getting
help from my primos, tios, tias,
etc.
muchisimas,
joseph
Yolanda Medina-Perez
wrote:
>A tradition in Mexico is the writing of a CALAVERA for
>friends,family, public personalities and politicians. Calaveras
are
>meant to be funny, they are not meant as eulogies, but are mild
>teasing. There's usually some sort of rhyme, and they can be
>several lines to several stanzas in length. They can also be poems
>of
Hi, there! I am descended from the Zaldivars you've mentioned below. However, my PROVEN descent from them does not carry forward the Zaldivar surname. My great-grandmother was Francisca Saldivar, d/o Geronimo Saldivar and Petra Gomez; Geronimo Saldivar was the s/o Narciso Saldivar and Maria Antonia Morillo. (It's through Maria Antonia's mother, Juliana del Carmen Villavicencio that my family descends from the Zaldivars mentioned in your note to me.) Narciso was the s/o of Juan Josef Zesario Saldivar and Antonia Rossalia de Llamas; and Juan was the s/o Joseph Saldivar b. around 1700 in Zacatecas and his second wife Maria de la Luz Ortis. Joseph's my Zaldivar brick wall. I don't know anything more about him other than he had sons with his first wife. Sincerely, Marge Vallazza:)
On Nov 8, 2005, at 9:36 AM, José Román González López wrote:
Hi Margarita:
In the Coahuila-Nuevo Leon area, there are multiples families that have as your ancestors the "Zaldívar" from Zacatecas. In my
No. But I'm planning to research my ancestors from Panuco this month. If I do find any Zaldivars, I'll let you know. Albert Duarte Prieto Santa Maria, California --- Margarita Vallazzawrote: > Do you have any Zaldivars in your Panuco ancestry? > Marge:) > On Nov 7, 2005, at 5:45 PM, Alberto Duarte wrote: > > > > > How do you expect Americans to know the history > of > > another country or group when they know very > little > > about their own history? If you don't believe > me, > > just ask them. > > > > Emile, you are doing way better than me. I can > only > > trace my ancestors back to 1675 in Panuco, > Zacatecas. > > > > Alberto Duarte Prieto > > Santa Maria, California > > > > --- Emilie Garcia > wrote: > > > > > Yes, Arturo, > > > > > > It is so frustrating to know that Anglos here > don't > > > have a clue about our history. They are > amazed when > > > I request records for 1640, or mention that I > just > > >
Emilie, Just wanted to comment on what you wrote below...I once heard someone with a similar experience as your sister... There response was "I didn't cross the border it crossed me!" Here in Southern California...even though almost all the cities and streets are in Español. People seem to forget that Mexico use to own all of the Southwest States. And even though the border was moved to its current location, many of the people stayed. As for me, I have been able to successfully trace most of my family ancestors to the 1700's in Colotlan and Totatiche, Jalisco. I have hit some brick walls but I am currently trying different angles. My fahter did cross the border, he came to the U.S. in the 1950's during the Bracero program. Angie Godina So. California --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia"wrote: >My sister (born in Colorado as I was) once was told by her boss at work, "Well, Alicia, now that you have adopted this country as your own
There is a 1785 Census of the Colotlan region that is held at the
Archives of Simanca in Spain and has bee digitized.
I was thinking that perhaps we could get a few volunteers from the
group to help transcribe it and then perhaps even publish it. I think
it would be very useful for many people in the group and as far as I
know, it has not previously been published.
The document can be found on Archivos Espanoles en Red at:
ES.47161.AGS/19.8//SGU,7015,2
Let me know if you are interested in helping out on this project.
There is a 1785 Census of the Colotlan region that is held at the Archives of Simanca in Spain and has bee digitized. I was thinking that perhaps we could get a few volunteers from the group to help transcribe it and then perhaps even publish it. I think it would be very useful for many people in the group and as far as I know, it has not previously been published. The document can be found on Archivos Espanoles en Red at: ES.47161.AGS/19.8//SGU,7015,2 Let me know if you are interested in helping out on this project.
Josie: If I remember correctly, Estaban Valdes Salazar's family in Totatiche are relative newcomers since their ancestor only immigrated to the area from Spain in the mid-1700s. There is actually an older Valdes line in the area who were originally "Llanos y Valdes" that goes way back... one of the first families to settle in Jerez, Zacatecas in the 1500s and then a branch moved to what is now Villa Guerrero to resettle the main hacienda there after one of the many indigenous uprisings that had led it to be abandoned. That family is very prominent... lots of army officers and to date about half of the mayors of Villa Guerrero are Valdeses from this line. >>Hi Arturo! I just now had time to try to catch up on my e-mail (Mickey Garcia and I were in Monclova, MX for a few days) and just read the above message you sent a few weeks ago. You mention that you are going to try to interview Esteban Valdes Salazar while you are in Mexico during December and January. I am
Do you have any Zaldivars in your Panuco ancestry? Marge:)
On Nov 7, 2005, at 5:45 PM, Alberto Duarte wrote:
How do you expect Americans to know the history of
another country or group when they know very little
about their own history? If you don't believe me,
just ask them.
Emile, you are doing way better than me. I can only
trace my ancestors back to 1675 in Panuco, Zacatecas.
Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California
--- Emilie Garciawrote:
> Yes, Arturo,
>
> It is so frustrating to know that Anglos here don't
> have a clue about our history. They are amazed when
> I request records for 1640, or mention that I just
> downloaded a census for 1650, for example. They say
> "They have records in Mexico that go back that
> far?--Who wrote them?" (they have no clue as to how
> literate and educated the priests and notaries
> public were). I tell them that I can trace some
> ancestors to 1543 (in Panuco, Zacatecas). I just
>
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Arturo,
Yes, I know how clueless Anglos are about a lot of things. Have
you watched Jay Leno when he goes out with a microphone to college campuses and asks them what they know about something simple that you would think they would know or shows them a picture of someone in the news and they don't know what he is talking about? It is scary. Jay does that, I think, to demonstrate the sad level of education of all our young people today. We are slouching towards Gomorrah. And no, I think you are doing better than me if you have an unbroken
line of documentation that far back. I was told that all people surnamed Olague with a long history in Zacatecas are descendants of Miguel Olague who was with Onate when when he went to Nuevo Mexico in 1598. That is my father's surname. Someone in Mexico told my sister about Miguel Olague. Then when I went to the New Mexico State archives I was told that all Marquez (my mother's surname) with a long history there descend |
How do you expect Americans to know the history of another country or group when they know very little about their own history? If you don't believe me, just ask them. Emile, you are doing way better than me. I can only trace my ancestors back to 1675 in Panuco, Zacatecas. Alberto Duarte Prieto Santa Maria, California --- Emilie Garciawrote: > Yes, Arturo, > > It is so frustrating to know that Anglos here don't > have a clue about our history. They are amazed when > I request records for 1640, or mention that I just > downloaded a census for 1650, for example. They say > "They have records in Mexico that go back that > far?--Who wrote them?" (they have no clue as to how > literate and educated the priests and notaries > public were). I tell them that I can trace some > ancestors to 1543 (in Panuco, Zacatecas). I just > can't trace all the lines back that far and there > are such huge gaps sometimes due to the upheavals > caused in the founding of a
Arturo Ramos
wrote:
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 04:01:44 -0000 From: "Arturo
Ramos" arturo.ramos2@...
Subject: Trip to Jalisco,
Zacatecas
I
will be spending about three weeks this December and January in Jalisco and
Zacatecas and am hoping to make it to the parrishes in Colotlan and ,
Tlaltenango, perhaps Atolinga as well as the
archives in Guadalajara...
Question... has anyone ever
asked to see the actual books held at the parrishes? I am thinking of asking to
photograph some of them, but don't know how well that would go over. Any tips would be appreciated. I am also
going to try to do an interview with Esteban Valdes Salazar who has published
some very good genealogy and history books on Totatiche. He is the local
"cronista" and has obviously spent lots of time pouring over old
archival documents, including the
transcription of the 1591 census of Tlaxcaltec migrants to Colotlan and the
entire 1770 Totatiche census (over 3000 names). So if there are any
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Great Stories Elvira. . .i didn't know about the "No Pago" records but
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Elvira, Thanks so much for sharing your interesting experiences. Victor --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "elviraz"wrote: > > > Arturo, Emilie, > > See my comments below. > > Elvira > >
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Arturo, Emilie, See my comments below.
Elvira ----- Original Message Follows ----- From: "Arturo Ramos" arturo.ramos2@...> To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ranchos] Re: Bautismos de Hijos Legitimos Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 06:10:58 -0000 > You know that's right Elvira. I talk to the Nordic
people > at my family history center and they cannot believe that > there are even records for Mexico in the 1700s let alone > records that list maternal and paternal names up to the > grandparents... along with race/caste, etc. As wrong as > the motives may have been for maintaining all of this > information... knowledge=control and the maintainance of > information like this was obviously meant to categorize > and keep people in their place. Nevertheless this > information gives us a beautiful window into the lives > of our ancestors. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
used to work in a place where it was common to have to |
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Thanks Emilie, Divisions, Estados, Cabezeras, etc.
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This map really helps me visualize the location of the earliest provinces settled by the Conquistadores. Now I know where Nueva Galicia, Nueva Vizcaya, Nueva Leon, Nueva Santander, Nuevo Mexico, etc. were. This map also shows Texas, Louisiana, and Florida and the Philipines as Spanish territories. Emilie Garcia Port Orchard, WA ---
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In the above link to History of Mexico - Indigenous Jalisco, this article by John P. Schmal states that the colonial province of Nueva Galicia included, besides Jalisco, only present-day Zacatecas, Aguascalientes, Nayarit and the northwest corner San Luis Potosi, and that the Spaniards and some Indian allies began settlement there in the early 16th century. The article also describes which Indian tribes settled in various towns. This article sounds familiar. Maybe someone has posted a link to it before? Emilie Garcia Port Orchard, WA ---
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Yes, Arturo,
It is so frustrating to know that Anglos here don't have a clue about our
history. They are amazed when I request records for 1640, or mention that I just downloaded a census for 1650, for example. They say "They have records in Mexico that go back that far?--Who wrote them?" (they have no clue as to how literate and educated the priests and notaries public were). I tell them that I can trace some ancestors to 1543 (in Panuco, Zacatecas). I just can't trace all the lines back that far and there are such huge gaps sometimes due to the upheavals caused in the founding of a nation and opening up of frontiers and the passage of time. I tell them that Jerez where my father was born is on the National Register of Historical Places in Mexico as a well-preserved Spanish Colonial city founded in the early 1500s. They think their 1620 settlements in Massachusetts are the oldest in the Americas. I don't even think they realize how far back our pre-Colombian |