Nuestros Ranchos Site

it means 'parulo''or ''parula'' it means for boy or girl, it means for
infants

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 7:06 PM, alice wissing wrote:

> Hello Researchers,
>
> I keep encountering the word "Pazuulo" and "Pazuula" after names, such as
> "Maria, India Pazuula." Does anybody know what this means? I checked an
> antique Spanish dictionary and could not find the word. I also checked the
> Internet and had no luck.
>
> Alice

Are you sure it doesn't say *parvuloparbulo* and *parbula? *which would
mean "child/youth"?
Can you send us a link?
-Esther

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 6:06 PM, alice wissing wrote:

> Hello Researchers,
>
> I keep encountering the word "Pazuulo" and "Pazuula" after names, such as
> "Maria, India Pazuula." Does anybody know what this means? I checked an
> antique Spanish dictionary and could not find the word. I also checked the
> Internet and had no luck.
>
> Alice

Hello Juanita,

Re your side note it only states that they are "Ciudedanos de esta vila", doesn't give the name but the front of this book says "San Miguel en Mexquitic", probably the villa they are referring to. Also on the "Padrinos" he is Juan Esteban Quiros and his muger....

You have a similar problem that I am dealing with. My search is stopped at my 4X great grandfather Jose Maria Valdes. Which is the most common of names, as is your Jose Maria Hernandes. I'm sure, like me, you have found many almost identical records that seem to match all the names except for dates that don't make sense. All I can tell you in that regard is it happens a lot in my research because of the common names I'm working with and that it's is not too unusual. I have spent many hours correcting my tree due to these similarities.

Also, I'm not sure why you assume that the name Marmeto is a misspelling they do have some Marmeto's in family search.

Good Luck,
Barbara
On Nov 25, 2012, at 11:21 AM, juanitahenniger@msn.com wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm still researching the Fulgencio Valdez and Cecilia Hernandes line. Born 20 years before 1831 or born in 1811. My biggest problem has been trying to figure out Celcilia's mother's last name. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20468-13357-68?cc=1860864…
>
> Jose Maria Hernandes and his wife "Maria Gregoria Marmeto"...I know that the priest probably misspelled this but I can't find a surname that I can apply to mispelling.
>
> Patrones ...Juan Esteban (can't understand if the this is his last name or a suppose to be a Spanish word) Y su mujer Maria Caluida Banegas.
>
> Also in the sidebar it says what village they are from...but I can't figure out what village that would be.
> In the marriage record that I found for a Jose Maria Hernandez and a Maria Geogoria Marceto it seems that Jose Maria is a widower and they were only married in 1825. Which would mean that Cecilia could not be Gregoria could not be her mother. Unfortunately this marriage is held in Ixmiquilpan and not Mequitic de Carmona which makes me think the records aren't related because in the Marriage record for Fulgenico and Cecila it states that they are both citizens of the village of ..... and therein lies my confusion or stumping.
> last entry on left side (second page)
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-11229-13419-37?cc=1410092&wc…
>
> And to continue my dilemma in my continuing research I found a baptismal record for a Sillia Hernandes born in 1811 whose father is Jose Maria Hernandes but whose is mother is a Josefa de La Cruz.
> Last entry on the second page.
> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-17188-13361-42?cc=1837906&wc…
>
> I would like to say that I've tried all the extraction methods that the family history guides provides but my limited Spanish can sometimes be a disadvantage. I've been stumped on this for a couple of weeks now and I sure would like to make some progress, so all help is appreciated.
> Could someone be kind enough to help me find me way around this puzzle. Thank you.
>

In order to determine if Marmeto is a rare Spanish surname I looked went to http://www.linajes.net/ and searched for it. It does not show up at that site so I did a search for the surname in familysearch.org without specifying a country. It shows up a lot in the Philippines. Then I specified Mexico where Marmeto shows up a few times. This surname most likely made it's way into Mexico from the Philippines.

In the second link it is Jose Marcelo and not Jose Marceto. Look closely at all of the letters l and t in the document. They are written differently. The l has a small line like a tail. The t has a a line going all the way through and much longer.

Armando

Does anyone have this book? I see in the index that there's an entry for Pinedo familia on page 151. I'd like to see what these pages say if someone wouldn't mind scanning them. Thanks,

Chris Pineda

Sylvia Rodriguez RoblesT

Thank you for your post, I am an Aguilar decendant. I will need to figure out how Francisco fits in line. I live 3 miles from Redlands

Is it possible to send me an attachment of this since each time I try to save it to my files it freezes my computer up.. I'm doing something wrong but I would like to print it out since it's sideways and I'm having a hard time reading it...
thank you, Linda in Everett

How do I access the names?

Does it say anything about a person with the Camino surname in the book?
Thanks.

_________________________________________________________________
Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count.
http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemt…

Alice....in the book, "Familias Antiguas de Tlaltenango, by

Arturo Ramos, there numerous entries on the family names
you are researching.

I strongly recommend the purchase of this book for concise

detailed history of your family. This book is worth its weight
in Gold. Available at lulu press, on line at lulu.com

________________________________
From: alice wissing
To: "research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 11:32 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help With Ortiz de San Pedro of Tlaltenango

I just found an entry while searching the early Durango records for a Lazaro Ortiz de San Pedro marrying a Maria de Chaide and Lazaro identifies his parents as Lazaro Ortiz de San Pedro and Maria Esquivel of Zacatecas.

Image 192/352, Defunciones 1622-1634, El Sagrario, Victoria de Durango, dated February 11, 1627: Vele a Lazaro de San Pedro hijo legitimo de Lazaro Ortiz de San Pedro y Maria de Esquivel veciana de Zacatecas aviendo precidido los amonestraciones y lo demos necessario? fueron los padrinos Isabel de Garete y Francisco de Avendano digo y lo vele con Maria de Chaide hija legitima de Juan de Chaide y de Francisca de Valle vecinos de esta ciudad.

I am hoping somebody out there familiar with the early Tlaltenango records can help me learn more about Lazaro Ortiz de San Pedro or Maria Esquivel. I'm guessing this would place the birth of Lazaro (the elder one) at around 1570-80. I saw some postings from several years ago and it appeared Arturo Ramos was very knowledgeable about the early families. Also, has anybody figured out why Ortiz has "de San Pedro" attached? Was there a place known as San Pedro in Spain?

Thank you.

Sanchez-Castellanos

Alice, in 1638-02-21 Lazaro Ortiz de San Pedro , Spaniard widower with Ana de La Paz, widow, residents of this town(Tlaltenango)

1629-05-17 Pedro Ortiz, resident of the town of Jerez with Ynes de Saucedo, maiden.

1647-12-21 Nicolas Carrillo, unmarried Spaniard, criollo of the town of Chalchihuites and resident of this juridiction as of six months prior, with Antonia Ortiz de Miramontes, resident maiden of this juridiction. Sponsors: Juan Martin Tello de Orozco and Doña Lorenza Ortiz de Haro his wife. Wittnesses: Felipe Diaz de Santiago, Pedro Ortiz de San Pedro (in the veiling ceremony of january 7th, 1648 appears Maria esquivel, mother of the bride and Sebastian , Indian mayor of said town....

I think there are two differents Ortiz one Spaniards and the other could be meztizo.

Jose de Jesus Barba Ornelas
Bernardo: La frase "No le tocan las generales" le falta agregar "de la ley". Significa que quien la dice esta siendo testigo en una informacion matrimonial o en una dispensa de parentesco y que le consta que los contrayentes son o no son parientes consanguineos y que los conoce de tiempo atras. Y que el, es o no es pariente consanguineo de los pretensos y si lo es debe decir en que grado, para evitar confusiones o falsas declaraciones. Esperando que la informacion anterior te sea de utilidad, te mando un afectuosos saludo.

A T E N T A M E N T E

JOSE BARBA ORNELAS

.

The movie is also called Cristiada. The production of the movie was
reported in a thread at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18836 There
is an interesting post at
http://www.cristiadafilm.com/blog/2010/05/31/we-did-it/ that says "Pues a
mi se me hace quela personificación de Andy Garcí­a si se parece bastante a
mi abuelo, lo que dudo mucho es que Eva Longoria se vaya a parecer a mi
abuela pues ella era muy blanca y de ojos azules, a ver como la
personifica…." by Ileana Gorostieta.

I do wish movies would attempt to be closer to to the truth. It's also
unfortunate they didn't have more Mexicans in the cast since the movie is
about Mexico. At least they made a movie about our region. An uncle of mine
used to like to recount the history the war. He was fiercely Catholic. One
of his sons told me that he had seen bullets holes in the Parroquia of
Lagos de Moreno from the Cristero war. One of the last stands in Lagos took
place at the Mesa Redonda formerly known as the Mesa de los Villalobos.

Andy Garcia's statement that people didn't like to talk about it isn't
necessarily true. There was a film made in 1946 called Sucedio en Jalisco
about the Cristeros that can be seen on Youtube. Also on Youtube is a 5
part documentary called Guerra Cristera The song "El martes Me Fusilan by
Vicente Fernández" is about a Cristero.

Saludos
Armando

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:42 PM, wrote:

> For us history buffs...(and also those of us who like Andy Garcia
> movies).....
>
> Actor Andy Garcia joined Fox & Friends a few days ago to talk about his
> new movie, ‘For Greater Glory.’ In the film, he plays a general who gets
> recruited by the Cristero Army to help the Mexican citizens fight for
> religious freedom.
>
> It’s based on true events that took place in the 1920s where 90,000 people
> died fighting over the course of three years.
>
> Film opens in theaters on June 1st (already showing in Mexico).
>
> Interview located at:
>
> www.foxnewsinsider.com/2012...**/andy-garcia-joins-fox-**
> friends-to-talk-about-his-new-**movie-for-greater-glory/

Thank you "windmillbb,"

Thank you for the heads up... Love Andy Garcia. Look forward to viewing this film, hopefully on Netflix..

Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA

----- Original Message -----
From: windmillbb@aol.com
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 8:42:24 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Movie "For Greater Glory"

For us history buffs...(and also those of us who like Andy Garcia movies).....

Actor Andy Garcia joined Fox & Friends a few days ago to talk about his new movie, ‘For Greater Glory.’ In the film, he plays a general who gets recruited by the Cristero Army to help the Mexican citizens fight for religious freedom.

It’s based on true events that took place in the 1920s where 90,000 people died fighting over the course of three years.

Film opens in theaters on June 1st (already showing in Mexico).

Interview located at:

www.foxnewsinsider.com/2012.../andy-garcia-joins-fox-friends-to-talk-ab…

You can upload his results to ysearch.org then you can post his ysearch userid.

Did he join a project? Like Gary Felix's Mexico DNA project? If so which surname?

Armando

Emilie,

Nobody's email is being hacked. The from email address is being changed by spammers in order to make it look like the email is from someone you know. This is called spoofing. The password to a person's email account is not needed to spoof. It is the equivalent of putting a false return address on regular mail. However, it is likely that a computer that has those email addresses had a bot or a virus installed on their computer which then steals the email addresses from the infected computer and sends out the spam. You can read more about that by googling "email spoofing".

The problem with us not getting email notifications is most likely due to a server problem. Since they do not charge us for membership to this website I believe the webmaster volunteers his time. He probably tries to fix it more often than we notice.

Armando

You may get any answer from him either.

I messaged Arturo a few weeks ago and he hasn't bother to answer me either.

Jose Carlos de Leon

I don't want to speak for Joseph and Arturo, but I know Arturo will figure out what is going on, once he can. He's a busy man, so we'll just have to be patient until he can track down the problem. I noticed this problem as well, and for now, I've just been checking the website instead. It's not as convenient as receiving the emails, but this service is free and relies on Arturo's time, and like many busy people, he has obligations. I'm sure we will be back on track soon enough.

If anyone emails me or sends me a message through the group and I don't respond, I may not be getting your emails. I've noticed certain people's messages aren't being sent through-- who knows, this very message may get lost in the great beyond of the internet!

Just as a warning for members: if there is ever a link in a message, only open it IF you trust the writer or recognize it as a legitimate site-- too many email accounts are hacked, with the resulting Spam. When in doubt, don't click! I would not put myself at risk.

I apologize if my tone sounds curt; I don't mean it to be-- attribute it to the fact that I've been grading huge stacks of essays! :)

Rosalinda

Same problem here. I used to receive all new messages in my inbox, now it's only a couple. I started noticing this last time I posted a question on nuestros ranchos and I didn't see my message on my email. I got a response from another member, but I only found out until I looked at my original post on the website.

Steve in NC

Paul J. Gomez
Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 17, 2012, at 5:40 PM, alice wissing wrote:

> I am experiencing the same problem of not receiving very many e-mails. I had posted a question about Tlaltenango a couple of days ago and didn't see any responses. I thought perhaps the nature of the group had changed and people were not as helpful as they used to be. Then, I just checked the website and saw 4 people offered helpful comments. Thank you all who posted and I hope the problem gets fixed. I have a lot of questions these days regarding Zacatecas.

Paul J. Gomez
Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 17, 2012, at 5:40 PM, alice wissing wrote:

> I am experiencing the same problem of not receiving very many e-mails. I had posted a question about Tlaltenango a couple of days ago and didn't see any responses. I thought perhaps the nature of the group had changed and people were not as helpful as they used to be. Then, I just checked the website and saw 4 people offered helpful comments. Thank you all who posted and I hope the problem gets fixed. I have a lot of questions these days regarding Zacatecas.

Same here

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de alice
wissing
Enviado el: Saturday, November 17, 2012 7:41 PM
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Not Receiving Posts

I am experiencing the same problem of not receiving very many e-mails. I had
posted a question about Tlaltenango a couple of days ago and didn't see any
responses. I thought perhaps the nature of the group had changed and people
were not as helpful as they used to be. Then, I just checked the website and
saw 4 people offered helpful comments. Thank you all who posted and I hope
the problem gets fixed. I have a lot of questions these days regarding
Zacatecas.

Pat,

See below, highlighted in yellow what I believe it to be.

Alicia

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:29 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Help Please - Ygnacio Lopes De Lissalde y Angela Mercado

In researching the offspring of Cristobal Mercado y Angela De Thorrez (6th ggparents) I located a marriage record for their daughter Angela Mercado.

Many of the words in this document are proving to be a challenge for me.  I would appreciate your help with the translation...

Catholic Church Records - Jalisco - Cuquio- San Felipe Matrimonios 1711-1762
Image 454 of 619 dated 08 Feb 1750...

Groom: Ygnacio Lopes de Lissalde, native and resident of Nochistlan, legitimate son of Joseph Lopez de Lissalde y Juana Carrillo (deceased).

Bride: Angela Mercado (the word/s after her name I can not "make-out,") Also a Spaniard, (asi mysmo espanola) native and resident of the village of Cuquio in the Pueblo de St. Judes (?), legitimate daughter of Cristobal de Mercado (deceased) and Angels de Thorrez (Torres):

Not sure what is being referenced for the individuals named...Diego Ruiz
y ? Cayetano de Robalcaba...(Witnesses ?)It doesn't say witnesses, it only says they were also present to witness the marriage.

This document is located at this URL:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18457-27834-15?cc=1874591&wc….

(the second document on the right hand page).

Thank you,
Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy, CA. USA

There are a number of good histories of Mexico and the Spanish conquest/colonial efforts in the New World that will likely answer your questions.

Here are two:

Michael Meyer & William Sherman, "The Course of Mexican History," 5th edition (1995).

Hugh Thomas, "The Golden Empire: Spain Charles V, and the Creation of America," (2010).

A good public library should have at least the first of these, and likely both.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Alice just wanted to share something I do when reading a record that's unfamiliar or hard to read. I skip every 5 pages until the handwriting starts making sense and I start noticing similarities in wording and style, it's helped me a lot.. just sharing..
Linda in Boulder City, Nv.

________________________________
From: alice wissing
To: "research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:17 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Tlaltenango Records

Hello Researchers,

Last night I tried to review the following microfilm: Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, Matrimonios 1626-1723. I am disappointed in that the handwriting is almost illegible for the late 1620's (I don't know about the rest of the microfilm because I did not get far). Do these entries appear on the IGI? And are there any transcriptions or translations available of the records?

Thank you so much,

Alice

Hello Juanita,

As Armando stated there are no other names than the married couple and their parents. Again, the phrase you were wondering about just meant they were married in front of the church. What I have found to be helpful when I don't quite understand the phrases or terminology of the record I'm researching, is to look at some of the other records before and after the one I'm interested in. Sometimes they're a little clearer and you may either read them a bit easier or you will see that they are using the same phrases which just means it some what of a "form" with the same information, just the names change.

Hope that helps,
Barbara

What you think says infante Eliza is actually "In facie ecclesiae" which is a Latin term for "in front of the church". http://www.somosprimos.com/spanishterms/spanishterms.htm

The grandparents are not mentioned.

I hope this helps.

Armando

Hello,

I apologize if I misunderstood your request, but I believe you are trying to find a book on Nochistian. WorldCat can be very helpful in locating books in public libraries. You might be able to get your local library to get an inter library loan for you. I found this on World cat. I hope this helps..http://www.worldcat.org/title/genealogia-de-nochistlan-antiguo-reino-de…

Juanita Henniger

i found a few ancestors with last name caldera on my tree but i can't seem to figure out how they relate to miguel caldera

Ed, I have 4 Caldera ancestors even though 2 go to the same ancestors, Jose Antonio del Carmel Caldera (abt 1735) and Ana de la Trinidad Garcia and also Jose Andres Caldera (abt 1720) and Catarina Gertrudis de la Cueva.  I also have Leonarda Caldera (abt 1710) and Francisco Reveles but have not been able to find anything on them. so I also have been trying to link them since they are listed as Espanol even though we know they were Mestiso's. Susan Leniski has submitted her work to Nuestrosranchos and what I have comes mostly from her research.
Like you I did purchase and read the Powell book.

I don't read Spanish well but Mr. Cabral did try to help me but the language barrier was too great since he speaks no English. I hope you are able to uncover something that helps me link my Caldera ancestors together.

Linda Castanon-Long in Marietta

________________________________
From: "ed@serros.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 10:46:56 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Miguel Caldera and Cabral (Salvador Cabral author)

I have been researching the Jerez area for some time.  As I have found in many parts of my family, the intermarriage between families is breath-taking and predictable. For the longest time I had a brick wall in one line but recently found it in Jerez, where I should have looked before. An old document suggested that Antonio Villegas married Barbara Cablar, but it turns out it was a "typo" by the priest; it should have been Barbara Cabral.  Once I realized the mistake, with many other supporting documents, the Barbara Cabral (born c. 1745 in Jerez) link takes me back to Domingo Cabral, I believe, courtesy of Nuestros Ranchos member Salvador Cabral, see http://jerez-zacatecas.galeon.com/archivo/genealogia/cabral/archivo/cab… and http://jerez-zacatecas.galeon.com/archivo/genealogia/cabral/archivo/cab….

Furthermore in the course of reading the above links, Salvador offers the following with respect to the apparent connection between the famous Miguel Caldera, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Caldera or in Spanish http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Caldera, and Domingo Cabral in the link here, http://jerez-zacatecas.galeon.com/archivo/genealogia/cabral/archivo/cab…. I have read Powell's book on Miguel Caldera, see http://www.amazon.com/Mexicos-Miguel-Caldera-Americas-1548-1597/dp/0816…, and Powell specifically does not mention many Miguel Caldera direct family members since Miguel did marry.  Powell does discuss Miguel's niece, illegitimate daughter Isabel, and subsequent marriages of these two.

My question is what is the documentation in the link, http://jerez-zacatecas.galeon.com/archivo/genealogia/cabral/archivo/cab…, where the "extended" Caldera family is discussed? I offer this question not as an argument but simply as an attempt for clarification. Miguel Caldera was a very important figure in the Nuestros Ranchos area. I would have emailed Salvador Cabral directly but I do not have his email address. Furthermore, I think Miguel Caldera discussions are probably interesting for this group.

By the way, I for one am grateful Salvador Cabral is a member of this group.

Thanks,

Ed Serros

You might already have this information but in case you don't, here it is.

So this is the wedding date for your ancestors, Refugio Jauregui and Maria Encarnacion Losano, 18 Sept, 1851:  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JZXF-4MP

This is the marriage record for Jose Refugio Jaurequi and Maria Encarnacion Losano, bottom right hand corner from El Salto. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15191-45194-11?cc=1410092&wc…

This was his second marriage, his first was to Maria Victoriana Mejia. This marriage records shows that there was a dispensation for the marriage of Jose Refugio Jauregui and Maria Encarnacion Losano. You may want to check on the marriage dispensation and it may have additional information as to the origins of the parents of the bride and the groom.

Alicia

________________________________
From: "aflore2855@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 11:49 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] PIOQUINTO JAUREGUI AND MARIA DOLORES YANES INFO NOCHISTLAN ZACATECAS MEXICO

Im trying to find these individuals parents as well but i just can't seem to find them either they are form nochistlan zacatecas i descend from their son Jose Del Refugio Jauregui he married Maria Encarnacio Lozano middle 1800's.

To me, it looks like what folks from Jalpa, Zac refer to as a "gordita." The fillings varied, from only lard, to beans + lettuce + cheese and some kind of meat (and of course home-made chile!). I'm not sure of its origins, but remember that corn (and hence tortillas) is a native plant so Gordas/Gorditas probably originated in Mexico. As for Atole Blanco, we never added the "blanco" because that was the only type we ever had.

Both are pretty common in East LA and other parts of Southern California.

I've seen slight variations on these, such as the "sopes" (Gorditas) and "champurrado" (atole).