Fwd: [ranchos] More about Nopales

Hi Fco.
Enjoyed your e-mail on nopales and tunas.  I am not crazy about nopales, but the tunas are definitely good!  Your recipes sound good and I might cook some for my Mom who is a guerita in color but Mexican down to the marrow.  She has to have frijoles or she misses them after a while.

Pacorro73@... wrote:
Just one more tidbit on the Nopales recipes.  Yes the nopal salad with queso fresco sounds really good, although in our family we never make it that way.  We'll have to try them that way.  By the way try to use the youngest and most tender PENCAS.  A "penca" is what you call an individual stem/leaf/pad.  See illustration.  That's the top one.  The old pencas are too tough, stringy, and inedible.  A nopal refers to the entire living organism.
 
Surprisingly, nopales are very versatile.  One way is the way every one has suggested.  Cleaning the pencas (dethorning them), chopping into cubes, and boiling with onions and cilantro.  Once their done, you drain the water and can be

Fwd: [ranchos] Another food thought

Yes,
this Mexican loves food too.  I have had both quelites and verdolagas, but
only sauteed with chopped onions & tomatoes.  Very tasty just the
same.  Its good to hear that verdolagas have the same Omega 3 as salmon
since I have been unable to acquire a taste for salmon.  :)  I'll have
to try verdolagas prepared other ways as mentioned.  Of course, I have to
get my hands on verdolagas first.  I first heard of both when visiting some
family who lived in an orchard in the Yuba City/Marysville area.  My mom
& aunt picked them from the "barbechos," and I had come along for the
walk--probably sent away so that I wouldn't hear the "chistes colorados" that my
dad and uncle were so fond of telling!. 


[Irma GomezLucero] 
 
 
 -----Original
Message-----
From: Alicia Carrillo
[mailto:alliecar@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 3:49
PM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: [ranchos]
Another food thought

I love it. Just get us Mexicans to talk about our foods and culture and

Alicia of San Jose

Hola Carrillo researchers:

My great-grandmother was Francisca Carrillo who was
born in Hujecar in 1843.  She married Casmiro Muro in
1863 (Santa Maria).  Francisca had 15 children that we
know of and we know that 4 came to the US.  I know
very little about the Carrillo's going forward,
however I have traced 3 generations back;  Francisca's
father was Pedro Nolasco Carrillo born 1812 in
Colotlan; m. to Tranquilana Sanchez; Pedro's father
was Felipe Carrillo m. to Mariana de Casas; Felipe
Carrillo's father was Andres Carrillo m. to Maria
Estefana Martinez.  So this puts me in the late 1770's
with the Carrillo's.

My Francisca did make it to the states, my grandfather
Casmiro died in 1911; I find Francisca in the 1930
census in CA living in LA county with her son Juan. 
She lived to be about 94 years old and I'm told she
died in Delicias, Chiuahua.  I've looked at films for
the city from 1932-1938 and found nothing.  So there
is some family there in Chiuahua, I just don't know
who yet or

Alicia of San Jose

Hola, Alicia.
Thanks for the response. It was/is a long shot but I'm sure stranger things happened in the past when it comes to making family connections Sad to see that your Carrillo data is a meager as mine. However, I'm certain this will not stop us from looking, asking questions and sharing information. After years of searching I only recently found hard birth data on my father and his brother via the LDS FHC film library. I finally got to experience what it's like to do the "happy dance." I wish the same for you./Adelante-Raul Felix 



-----Original Message-----
From: Alicia Carrillo
Sent: Jun 3, 2004 10:21 PM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Alicia of San Jose

Hola Raul,
 
In response to your letter where you tell of your mother searching for her natural father Jose Carrillo. My heart breaks for her. To live your entire life wondering what became of your father must be heartbreaking.
 
My husband Juan Carrillo's dad was Antonio Carrillo. He was raised almost as

Alicia of San Jose

Hola Raul,
 
In response to your letter where you tell of your mother searching for her natural father Jose Carrillo. My heart breaks for her. To live your entire life wondering what became of your father must be heartbreaking.
 
My husband Juan Carrillo's dad was Antonio Carrillo. He was raised almost as an orphan therefore we did not know much about his family. His father died when he was young and his mother left him and his two brothers to be cared for by family members and not close family at that. He grew up not as a family member but mostly as a hired hand for the family's ranch. He never learned to read or write. It was said that his mother was in Kansas but he could never verify it. He died in 1985 before I began my inquiry into our ancestry. What a shame that I did not take the time or opportunity to search or even to ask him in detail while he was alive. 
 
That is what compelled me to go to the rootsweb message boards and post a message searching for Mariana Carrillo

Alicia of San Jose

Hola. I responded to Alicia Carrillo's nopalitos
story because I was seeking info with regards the Carrillo name. I believe my
grandfather's name was JOSE CARRILLO but I know very little else about him.
Based on a brief autobiography from my mother, JOSE CARRILLO married
MARIA GARCIA in Chihuahua. They had one child, a daughter, Guadalupe, born
12/12/03. I have NOT BEEN TO CONFIRM/VALIDATE their marriage or the birth
of the child via the Chihuahua City records. I've made two trips to Ciudad
Chihuahua (1997-98). Subsequent trips were made to Zacatecas City. My
research group (La Familia, Anaheim, CA.) also visited nearby Jerez,
Guadalupe and Fresnio. It turns out that my families FERNANDEZ (Grandmother) and
FELIX (grandfather) are from JEREZ, ZAC. and a place called Hermita De
Guadalupe..which I have yet to locate. I can tell you more about Jerez if you
are interested. It is my hope that our research group will visit there
again. What I'd like to share with you is that

Alicia of San Jose

I hope I didn't give the wrong impression. Not owning up with pride to being Mexican only lasted until I entered my teens. Our family wouldn't tolerate it for too long. Besides it was more fun to be both Mexican and Gringo. You could have the best of both worlds. I can easily jump into one culture or another. I realized that I didn't have to give up my mexican-ness in order to live and play the American way. I celebrate both cultures with great fervor and joy. Our children also had to speak spanish at home, this as a result of my parents instilling and infusing us with their pride in our heritage. I will forever be greatful to them for this and many other cultural gifts they passed on to us.
 
Our children have continued this pride in their heritage and while all 3 have married non-Mexicans all three celebrate and live both cultures with ease, with pride and with honor to those who came before us. After all, we all still have the Nopales firmly stamped on our forehead.
 
Con mucho

Alicia of San Jose

Alicia Carrillo;
    I know how you feel about not
wanting to be labeled a Mexican in an Anglo society. Now that we Latino's
make up 54% of the population of California it is no longer that much of an
issue.    
    I was so very interested to
read your posting and I felt that you put into writing what I had
experienced myself.         My father lived
most of his later years there in San Jose. He lived on Little Orchard
street.   I visited him there a few times before he died.  I
still have relations there.
    The Macias branch of my
family is  from Zacatecas.  I don't know where and there is now no one
to ask.  I saw a place called "Jerez" on a Document.  I wonder if
"Jerez, Zacatecas" is a City, town, parish, rancho, area or rest
stop.  I have never been there and don't have a map.  Do you know,
Alicia ?
    Funny how a thing does not
follow every generation.  My children don't speak Spanish, didn't take
Spanish in school, don't acknowledge when addressed in

Fwd: [ranchos] Another food thought

I love it. Just get us Mexicans to talk about our foods and culture and there's no stopping us.
 
Sure you're saying, this Alicia who was ashamed of being different and being Mexican and I'll say yup, one and the same one. That was then and this is now. When you're young and tarugo you never know where your thoughts come from. I share this freely because I know that for some but not for all this is part of growing up. As I age (gracefully of course) I become more and more Mexican. This is what brought me in search of my ancestry the pride that I feel in my culture and the desire to know what made me who I am, who came before me and how did they get here or how long have they been here.(on these shores).
 
Does anyone know about verdolagas? It's a weed that grows in the wild and if you're lucky it grows as a weed in your garden. You prepare it the same way that you prepare Nopales con carne de puerco and chile verde de tomatillo.
 
The reason I bring this up is when we were very young

Fwd: [ranchos] More about Nopales

Just one more tidbit on the Nopales recipes.  Yes the nopal salad with queso fresco sounds really good, although in our family we never make it that way.  We'll have to try them that way.  By the way try to use the youngest and most tender PENCAS.  A "penca" is what you call an individual stem/leaf/pad.  See illustration.  That's the top one.  The old pencas are too tough, stringy, and inedible.  A nopal refers to the entire living organism.
 
Surprisingly, nopales are very versatile.  One way is the way every one has suggested.  Cleaning the pencas (dethorning them), chopping into cubes, and boiling with onions and cilantro.  Once their done, you drain the water and can be used for a variety of dishes.  One is a type of salsa, with chopped fresh red tomatoes, white onions, green chiles and cilantro (aka Bandera salsa, because of the colors of the Mexican flag-green, white, and red).  Sometimes we even make this variation with chopped avocado (NOT MASHED, that's guacamole).  With the

Ranchos/nopales and mexican cooking

Here are a few websites with some history and recipes for nopales.

Some provide nutritional content, some tell of the origins of the cactus/nopales and you can even order nopales through rivenrock.

 

There are many diabetics that swear that eating lots of nopales decreases their blood sugar but I wouldn't quote that as gospel truth.

 

Alicia

 

 





Zacatecas and Jalisco Nopales, Ensalada de Nopales

It appears we have several things in common:
I like nopalitos, I also live in San Jose and we just may share some
distant relatives. According to a brief autobiography of my mother (Guadalupe
Flores), her biological father's name was JOSE CARRILLO. Lupe was orphaned
at a very early age in Ciudad Chihuahua. She believed her mother's name was
Maria Garcia (Hidalgo de Paral) but my research indicates her name was
Maria Macias. Maria died Ciudad Chihuahua at the age of 17 (1905) leaving
her small daughter in the care of an old couple Tomas/Petra Dominquez who later
left the child in the care of Alejandra Castillo. MARIA
GARCIA/MACIAS supposedly married JOSE CARRILLO (Zacatecas) in
Ciudad  Chihuahua. I have not been able to find/verify Guadalupes birth
(Dec. 12, 1903) in Ciudad Chihuahua nor the marriage of Maria to Jose Carrillo.
 
Guadalupe woujld eventually end up in McFarland,
Calif. as the adopted daughter of Alejandra and Gaspar Flores. Alejandra met
Gaspar Flores in

More about Nopales

 
    Alicia, I have thoroughly enjoyed your tidbits of
"nopaleslore".  Your ensalada de nopales is very similar to my mom's, with
the exception of the queso fresco.  I will have to add that next time I
make this dish.  I love having this over frijoles del olla, and
the queso would only make them better. 
 
    Joseph, ves lo que te has
perdido.  
Next, you need to try
tunas if you haven't already!
   
   
    I have also heard the
_expression_ regarding un nopal en la frente.  My folks used it all the time
to refer to someone who tried to hide their Mexican ethnicity.  My folks
are both from Jalisco, but it seems that some
branches (Lomeli--1600's) came from Nochistlan.  I'd love to
visit Nochistlan some time.  My mom even recalls her dad visiting a cousin
or two there.  I remember seeing a Nochistilan web page
too. 
    Fortunately my folks "forced" us to speak Spanish at
the table too.  Both of my folks are bilingual, but we always speak to them
in Spanish to this

Indios de Jalisco y Zacatecas y Mexico

Here is one webpage that has info on the various combinations of racial
mixes:



http://www.multiracial.com/readers/farmer8.html



=================



here is another article by John Schmal that gives some of the Indios of
Zacatecas:



http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/jpschmal/jsindigenouszacatecas.html



and in general:



http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/jpschmal/jsindigenousmexico.html



also have a look at this issue of Somos Primos for another great
article on the Indigenous Languages of Jalisco



http://www.somosprimos.com/spmay02.htm#Indigenous  about page 77 but
also look at the pages following page 66 for some good information with
references for more reading materials.



also check this issue for this article: MORALES: 

FROM INDIGENOUS TO MEXICAN TO AMERICAN

 By 

Donna S. Morales and John P. Schmal



http://www.somosprimos.com/spsep02.htm#UNITED%20STATES



also check this article in this issue:


LEARNING ABOUT NORTHERN JALISCO

More about Nopales

Here's more on Nopales
 
My family originates from Zacatecas, specifically Tlachichila from the Municipality of Nochistlan. As we all know many people have migrated to the Norte or Los Estados Unidos or as many say El Otro Lado. I grew up in the US of A in San Jose Calif in an all Anglo community and one thing I didn't want to be was different from the rest of my class. However different we were. We had to speak spanish at home which for one who doesn't want to be different or admit to anyone that you're different this was a tough one to hide.
 
When we brought friends home we had to speak spanish to my parents and if someone stayed over for lunch or dinner we had tortillas, nopales, salsa, mole etc etc.( trying pretending that you're not Mexican). Our parents knew that we were ashamed and a famous saying was "what are you trying to hide, anyone who sees you can see the nopales on your forehead and hanging on your ears. Translation "De que to escondes, se te ven los nopales en la

Zacatecas and Jalisco Nopales, Ensalada de Nopales

Ensalada De Nopales
 
Cut and clean the nopales. That is what we call it limpiar (clean) los Nopales.
 
Dice into bite size cubes. Boil in water with fresh oregano 2 sprigs, fresh cilantro two sprigs, two smashed cloves of garlic,  1/4 onion, 2 tsps salt. Boil until they reached the desired tenderness about 20 minutes. Drain and rinse thoroughly. Allow to cool completely.
 
Remove the smashed garlic, 1/4 onion, sprigs of cilantro and oregano.
 
1/2 onion, finely chopped
1 tomato diced
fresh cilantro chopped finely about 10 sprigs
1 cup queso fresco, diced or crumbled (this is mexican cheese) In California it's usually El Mexicano brand but there could be others. Other states I don't know.
1 serrano or jalapeno chile finely minced
For dressing, juice of 1/2 lemon, 3 tablespoons rice wine vinegar,  olive oil about 1/2 cup,
salt and pepper to taste.
 
Enjoy!  I guessed on the quantities because of course everything is passed on by word of mouth or visually you just put in a little bit

Zacatecas and Jalisco Nopales



Let me see how I can keep this on topic. . .



well might be better to send me any answers off list.



Quite possibly my great great grandmother Antonia Espinoza [dob: abt
1820] from Tepetongo, Zacatecas taught my great grandmother Antonia
Santa Maria [dob: 1862] from Tepetongo, Zacatecas who taught my
grandmother Virginia Diaz [dob: 1886] from Las Animas, Jalisco who then
taught my aunt Julia Puentes [dob: 1918] from Santa Paula, CA how to
make nopales and she this past weekend taught me [dob: 1953] from San
Jose, CA how to make them.



 Just yesterday was the first time I willingly ate
nopales and was pleasantly surprised that they were so so good. It
makes me wonder why I turned my nose up at them when I was a kid, then
again I hated everything that looked like a vegetable back then and I
love them all now.



Here's the recipe:



carefully harvest new nopales about the size of your hand



carefully dethorn them



wash them and cut in 1/2" cubes



boil them for 10 minutes and then

Native American Dental Identifiers


I found a webpage that identifies some distinct dental characteristics
of the Native American. Its kind of unclear as to if this is only for
Native Americans found in the US or if it reaches into Mexico. There is
enough information to contact someone at Arizona State University to
find out more.


If anyone is interested contact me off list and I'll forward you the
material.


joseph



Some Articles by John Schmal

Jonathan,

Thanks for sending the group these interesting articles.  My 
favorite was "Indigenous Mexico: A Lost Connection" and I recommend 
everyone read that one.  Yes, it's a trip for many of us to look in 
the mirror every morning, and the more one becomes engrossed in 
genealogy, the more one becomes aware of the physical 
characteristics the Spanish, Indians, and blacks left us.

Alice


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Walker"  
wrote:
> Here is the link, to some interesting articles, written by John P. 
Schmal and Donna S. Morales, about Mexican history:
> http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/schmal.html
> 
> Thanks,
> Jonathan 
> 
> Experienced Hispanic Genealogist - More Info:
> http://members.pcu.net/Hispanic_Genealogy/
> or http://hispanicgenealogy.4t.com


Some Articles by John Schmal

Fw: Everton's Newsline--27 May 2004

Title: Everton's Newsline--27 May 2004
 
Everton's Newsline--27 May 2004
Daily Special
The Handybook for
Genealogists
10th Edition


Regular:
$59.95
Sale:
$29.95
more info

Confirming Genealogical Information Using Catholic
Church Confirmation Records

By Lynn Turner

Confirmation
records found in Latin American Catholic parish registers have
proved to be an invaluable asset to genealogists.  These
records usually contain the name of the person being confirmed and
names

Luz Montejano's website


Ms. Montejano is a genealogy researcher, 
in Mexico.  The site has some genealogies from Chihuahua, Sonora, and other
areas of Mexico.  Also, there is a article about "Los Altos de
Jalisco."

 

Thanks,

Jonathan Walker
1140 North 230 West
Logan,
Utah 84341

 

1903 Sagrada Mitra



With regards to the Sagrada Mitra:



1) "Are those records found in all the Diocesis or are they
specific to Guadalajara?"



I found this record for a primo hermano of my Abuelo. And it says that
on 15 June 1903 a dispensa for the Sagrada Mitra was administered. I
looked in the "Informacion Matrimonial" records for the Santa Maria de
los Angeles, Jalisco area where they were married and found nothing.
The scanned record says: Zacatecas, Zacatecas and I was going to order
this film and have a look since I don't see specific Sagrada Mitra
films for Zacatecas [Información matrimonial 1903 VAULT INTL Film:
245160]



2) Where can the Sagrada Mitra films for other diocesis be
found?




3) or are the records in Guadaljara but since they end in 1899
i'm just out of luck?




4) If one had a Dispensa after 1899 for the Guadalajara
Diocesis where would one look?



5) Are records available via direct order through the different
diocesis by mail for a price?




=======================



misc questions

FHL Lookup Service

One of the little known services, of the Family
History Library, in Salt Lake. Is the copies by mail service:

 

This is what the Family Search, site says about
it:

 

"


face="Times New Roman">
Ordering Copies by Mail

To obtain photocopies of a few pages from a book or a few frames of microfilm
or microfiche, please
href="http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/frameset_rhelps.asp?Page=./research/type/Form.asp&ActiveTab=Type"
target=_top>use the appropriate Request for Photocopies form available on this
site
. Copies cost U.S.$2.00 each, with a U.S.$4.00 minimum charge. Please
follow the instructions found on the form."


I am uploading copies, of the request
forms.

 

This is a way, to get copies of the original
records, without having to order the film or goto Salt Lake, to see the
book.

 

Thanks,

Jonathan Walker
1140 North 230 West
Logan,
Utah 84341

 

Attachment:
FReqIGI.pdf


Description: Adobe PDF document

Attachment:
FReqMicrofilm.pdf


Description: Adobe PDF document