Nuestros Ranchos Site

Josie & Linda,

We share the same haplogroup A.  Although we're not an exact match we
do match on some numbers.  Since we're dealing here with mitochondrial
DNA, in contrast to Y chromosome DNA, it means that our female common
ancestor lived thousands of years ago, in prehistorical times.

Mitochondrial DNA is best suited to determine what is called "Deep
Ancestry" of our maternal lineage.  We definitely share the same
Native American roots in the distant past.

Warm Regards,

Victor


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Josie T. Trevino"  wrote:
>
> Message: 8       Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 03:55:34 -000        From:
"Erlinda
> Castanon-Long" 
> 
> Subject: Re: Haplogroup A ancestor
> 
> Victor you do match me on 4 numbers. mine are:Haplo group A 16111T
16223T
> 16290T 16319A 16335G 16362C 16526A
> 
> Josie, what were your numbers if you don't mind sharing? 
> 
> Linda in Everett
> 
> =================================================================
> 
>

I've found two relatives through entierros--one said what he died of and gave his age as over 100 but he really was 86 or something similar...I know because I found his birth record before I found his entierro. In a second entierro record that was included in some nacimientos, I found my great-grandfather's first wife--Ma. Eleuteria Tovar de Gonzalez, who died in childbirth, giving birth to her third child. But can I find this record again? Noooooooo. This is frustrating.:( Marge:)

On Oct 20, 2005, at 11:01 AM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

Arturo,

 

I have looked at some films for entierros or defunciones for Nochistlan Zac, therefore I can only speak of these findings. They can be hit or miss, some are very explicit as to the cause of death but very sparse in terms of familial connections. For example if it was a spouse who died at child birth it will give the husband's name but won't say who her parents are. Most of what I found in entierros or defunciones did not give a lot of

I'm going to be changing a rule. I will no longer be accepting
genealogies that include living relatives. This is for privacy sake. In
the early going I was lax on this point so there might be a few in the
files that include living relatives. I would strongly suggest that those
files be modified to remove those individuals.

also I've not accepted or will accept .gedcoms. . .I prefer a genealogy
report or if you must a chart.

thanks,

joseph

Can someone who has looked at films of parrish books listing
burials
tell me how extensive the information listed in these books
is?  Does
it list parents, survivors of the deceased?  I have two
particular
issues... one where I cannot connect an ancestor (Marcos LEMUS m.
Maria
Barbara

"Pardos Enterados: Unearthing Black Papantla in the Eighteenth Century."

Journal of Colonialism and Colonial History 5:2 | © 2004 Jason
Frederick

"Pardos Enterados: Unearthing Black Papantla in the Eighteenth
Century."

     Jason Frederick
     Penn State University, University Park

  1.

2. In 1787 Antonio Alcedo published his Diccionario
Geographico-Histórico de las Indias Occidentales o America. This work
details a variety of information on population centers throughout North
and South America. For the town of Papantla, Veracruz, Alcedo recorded
15 families of Spaniards, 535 families of "indios Mexicanos," and 200
pardos, divided into two companies of militia.1 Two centuries later
Peter Gerhard offered population figures for the same period in what has
become the standard historical geography for colonial New Spain.
Gerhard's numbers for Papantla were considerably higher than Alcedo's:
2,269 native tributaries and 215 Spanish families in 1795

Mary:

About getting around in Mexico... as someone noted earlier, the bus
system is very good in Mexico.. nothing like Greyhound.  There are
luxury buses that are almost always on schedule and do non-stop
trajectories between major cities.  You should be able to get from
Mexico City to Guanajuato without any problems on such a bus.  I have
rented cars before and driven and believe me I enjoyed the buses much
more.

As far as maps, the Secretaria de Communicaciones y Transporte has
very detailed up-to-date road maps of every state in Mexico:

http://dgp.sct.gob.mx/index.php?id=440

You can also order a Guia Roji, which is the premiere road atlas of
Mexico and is updated annually as well.

http://www.randmcnally.com/rmc/store/strProductDetail.jsp?
prod_id=9706214186

The SCT map can be searched in Adobe Reader.  From what I can tell,
there are a number of San Felipes in Guanajuato. 

Can someone who has looked at films of parrish books listing burials 
tell me how extensive the information listed in these books is?  Does 
it list parents, survivors of the deceased?  I have two particular 
issues... one where I cannot connect an ancestor (Marcos LEMUS m. Maria 
Barbara YBARRA) to any one of his potential parents (children of a 
Felipe LEMUS that was the grantee of the land where Marcos lived, his 
children were born, etc.).  I cannot find a marriage or birth record 
for him...

The other is that baptismal and marriage records for Jerez, Zacatecas 
seem to be missing for the crucial period at the end of the 17th and 
beginning of the 18th century when many families moved from there to 
Totatiche, Jalisco... so I am hoping that death records will make the 
connection.

Mary:

About getting around in Mexico... as someone noted earlier, the bus
system is very good in Mexico.. nothing like Greyhound.  There are
luxury buses that are almost always on schedule and do non-stop
trajectories between major cities.  You should be able to get from
Mexico City to Guanajuato without any problems on such a bus.  I have
rented cars before and driven and believe me I enjoyed the buses much
more.

As far as maps, the Secretaria de Communicaciones y Transporte has
very detailed up-to-date road maps of every state in Mexico:

http://dgp.sct.gob.mx/index.php?id=440

You can also order a Guia Roji, which

Just thought I would share my "experience" of riding the bus in Mexico.
This was in 1996. I had gone to Mexico around Holy Week to visit my 
youngest son who was in a study abroad program. Since his spring break 
coincided with Holy Week we decided to try to visit Zacatecas (I had 
previously contacted some distant cousins about the possibility of 
meeting them). According to the schedule the trip was to take 8 hours, 
so we decided to take the overnight bus, scheduled to arrive at about 6 
AM. It was a comfortable ride, but we fell asleep - slept through our 
stop (Zacatecas city)- went on two more stops (about 45 min.) then had 
to wait over an hour to catch a bus back to Zacatecas. We didn't dare 
wander away from the bus stop for fear of missing the bus back. We made 
it back OK, 'though the cousins were worried that we had not arrived at 
the appointed time.
The return trip to Mexico City was w/o incident.
 
Natalie Coleman in VA
PS - we had a lovely visit to the city - so much

Hope:

The marriage records usually have the names of parents listed and 
your grandmother's marriage with Epifanio is listed in IGI and you 
can order the film from your local family history center to view the 
full record and see the parent listing.  One of our members, Deena 
Ortiz has this film at her local FHC.

ANCELMA RODRIGUEZ  
  Female   Family 
Marriages: 
  Spouse:  EPIFANIO RAMIREZ  Family 
  Marriage:  04 MAR 1878   Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico 
Source Information: 
 Batch No.:  Dates:       Source Call No.:  Type:  
 M606265     1874 - 1880  0226734           Film 


You should also know that there is a very good and detailed genealogy 
of the oldest settlers in Nochistlan, so if your gggrandmother's 
family is originally from there, you should have a great resource to 
go back pretty far.

Genealogía de Nochistlán, antiguo reino de la Nueva Galicia en el 
siglo XVII según sus archivos parroquiales 
Authors Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías, José Luis (Main Author) 

Notes

Hello or Holla to everyone,
My name is Hope Carmona Wilson and I am looking for information on my 
gg parents from Mexico. Like so many of us who are American by birth 
and who are searching for history of our past family memebers from 
Mexico,it seems to be like looking for a needle in a hay stack.I am 
very happy to have found you all.The information I am researching is 
for my maternal ggg mother.
Her name was Anselma Rodriguez, born 1860 in Nochitzlan, Zacatecas, 
Mexico.She died and was buried in Teocaltiche,Jalisco,Mexico date?? She 
married Epifanio Ramirez,born 1850(about)His parents were Rogelio 
Ramirez & Estanisla Duran. No other information known. Via FamilyTree 
DNA testing I learned I belong to the HVR1 B GROUP. This is a native 
american group which makes sence since back then, there was no United 
States.
As I learn more information I will be happy to help others in thier 
search.
Again, I am very happy to be part of this group.
Hope aka Esperanza

Mary:

About getting around in Mexico... as someone noted earlier, the bus 
system is very good in Mexico.. nothing like Greyhound.  There are 
luxury buses that are almost always on schedule and do non-stop 
trajectories between major cities.  You should be able to get from 
Mexico City to Guanajuato without any problems on such a bus.  I have 
rented cars before and driven and believe me I enjoyed the buses much 
more.

As far as maps, the Secretaria de Communicaciones y Transporte has 
very detailed up-to-date road maps of every state in Mexico:

http://dgp.sct.gob.mx/index.php?id=440

You can also order a Guia Roji, which is the premiere road atlas of 
Mexico and is updated annually as well.

http://www.randmcnally.com/rmc/store/strProductDetail.jsp?
prod_id=9706214186

The SCT map can be searched in Adobe Reader.  From what I can tell, 
there are a number of San Felipes in Guanajuato.  The largest city by 
the name is at the intersection of Highways 51 and 37 in the northern 
part

Victor you do match me on 4 numbers. mine are:Haplo group A
16111T  16223T  16290T  16319A 16335G  16362C 16526A

Josie, what were your numbers if you don't mind sharing?  

Linda in Everett

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "v.h.villarreal" 
 wrote:
>
> Linda and Josie,
> 
> These are my HVR1 numbers: HVR1 Haplogroup A
> 16075C, 16111T, 16223T, 16239T, 16290T, 16319A, 16362C
>  
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
>  wrote:
> >
> > Josie I had the exact same experience as you, Early in my 
research  
> > I said I have  Espanol ancestors and then my mtdna came back 
> > Haplogroup A as you said is Native American.  My female line 
goes 
> > from Jalisco to Michoacan and I have matched 2 others who's 
female 
> > line was from Guanajuato. Also like you the "Muse's" from my 
line 
> > help me do genealogy at night!  Not much sleep but lots of 
names.  
> > In fact from a dream my Gutierrez line went from Tamazula 
Jalisco 
>

Mary,
Have you had a chance to search the message archives here. There was a
discussion of the collection of oral histories last spring. Enter oral
history in the search box to bring up those messages.
Also, check the "Ancestry.com" site >go to Learning Center >type in
oral history - to bring up a multitude of references regarding
collecting oral histories. There is more to read than you probably have
time for, but maybe they will provide some additional ideas. Maybe
those that you interview can tell you about what the community was like
years ago.
Good luck on your trip.

Natalie Coleman in VA

Mary,
Have you had a chance to search the message archives here. There was a 
discussion of the collection of oral histories last spring. Enter oral 
history in the search box to bring up those messages.
Also, check the "Ancestry.com" site >go to Learning Center >type in 
oral history - to bring up a multitude of references regarding 
collecting oral histories. There is more to read than you probably have 
time for, but maybe they will provide some additional ideas. Maybe 
those that you interview can tell you about what the community was like 
years ago.
Good luck on your trip.

Natalie Coleman in VA

Linda and Josie,

These are my HVR1 numbers: HVR1 Haplogroup A
16075C, 16111T, 16223T, 16239T, 16290T, 16319A, 16362C
 

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
 wrote:
>
> Josie I had the exact same experience as you, Early in my research  
> I said I have  Espanol ancestors and then my mtdna came back 
> Haplogroup A as you said is Native American.  My female line goes 
> from Jalisco to Michoacan and I have matched 2 others who's female 
> line was from Guanajuato. Also like you the "Muse's" from my line 
> help me do genealogy at night!  Not much sleep but lots of names.  
> In fact from a dream my Gutierrez line went from Tamazula Jalisco 
> back to Chilchota Michoacan from about 1680 to 1780.. I picked up 
> almost 1,500 names from that dream!  I will never question what I 
> don't undertand again!
> Linda in Everett
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Josie T. Trevino"  
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mary!    What you describe as "a strange

Josie I had the exact same experience as you, Early in my research  
I said I have  Espanol ancestors and then my mtdna came back 
Haplogroup A as you said is Native American.  My female line goes 
from Jalisco to Michoacan and I have matched 2 others who's female 
line was from Guanajuato. Also like you the "Muse's" from my line 
help me do genealogy at night!  Not much sleep but lots of names.  
In fact from a dream my Gutierrez line went from Tamazula Jalisco 
back to Chilchota Michoacan from about 1680 to 1780.. I picked up 
almost 1,500 names from that dream!  I will never question what I 
don't undertand again!
Linda in Everett
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Josie T. Trevino"  
wrote:
>
> Hi Mary!    What you describe as "a strange feeling" is a good 
thing!!!  It
> happens to me all the time and the first time (a few years ago) I 
did not
> understand what was happening!  I now feel that it is the 
ancestors way of
> telling us that they are helping us!  I also