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Hi, Arturo,
 
I hope you get this post.  This is the first time for me posting
directly to the new website.
 
I found a post by a Jaime A. Holcombe in Mexico City who says he is the son
of a Jaime Jose Holcombe who spent his life in serach of their ancestors in
Mexico and Europe.  I sent him an e-mail, although the e-mail address is
from 1999. It is still an active address since it has not kicked back to
me.
 
I am very interested in the Escobedos and the Talamantes, since I am a
descendant of some Escobedos in Zacatecas, and my husband is a descendant of
some Talamanteses in Aguascalientes/Jalisco.
 
I think this Jaime is the repository of all his father's works because he
mentions going through his father's things and finding information such as that
they are descended from a Sir John Holcomb who was knighted by Richard
Lionheart.  Wow!
 
Emilie Garcia'
Port Orchard, WA ---

Emilie:

Thank you so much for your efforts in trying to locate the repository of Jaime Holcombe's work. How far back are you with your Escobedo ancestry? I have a lot of information on this family that I have collected in hopes of connecting with my own ancestors.

Maria de Covarrubias was married to Francisco de Escobedo, son of Hernando de Escobedo and founder of San Andres del Astillero which came to be known as Monte Escobedo. They (Maria Covarrubias and Francisco de Escobedo) had a number of children that appear in their will: María de Covarrubias, Ana de Escobedo, Francisca de Covarrubias, Juan de Escobedo, Isabel de Rodas, Antonia de Covarrubias y Francisco de Escobedo.

Juan de Escobedo here is (I believe) the founder of Juanacatic (that came to be known as Villa Guerrero, Jalisco) and this Isabel de Rodas is (according to a confusing set of facts attributed to Jaime Holcombe) the same Isabel de Covarrubias that married a certain Captain Jacinto de Talamantes and whose offspring were the first Spanish settlers of what came to be known as Totatiche... Juan, Lucas and Pedro de Covarrubias Talamantes as well as an Isabel de Talamantes who is later found in Parral, Chihuahua.

The senior Maria de Covarrubias that married Francisco de Escobedo was the granddaughter of Francisco de Covarrubias, one of the first treasurers of the Caja de Zacatecas.

Did you know that the founders of Culver City, California were Talamantes from Aguascalientes?

Hi, Arturo,
 
I hope you get this post.  This is the first time for me posting
directly to the new website.
 
I found a post by a Jaime A. Holcombe in Mexico City who says he is the son
of a Jaime Jose Holcombe who spent his life in serach of their ancestors in
Mexico and Europe.  I sent him an e-mail, although the e-mail address is
from 1999. It is still an active address since it has not kicked back to
me.
 
I am very interested in the Escobedos and the Talamantes, since I am a
descendant of some Escobedos in Zacatecas, and my husband is a descendant of
some Talamanteses in Aguascalientes/Jalisco.
 
I think this Jaime is the repository of all his father's works because he
mentions going through his father's things and finding information such as that
they are descended from a Sir John Holcomb who was knighted by Richard
Lionheart.  Wow!
 
Emilie Garcia'
Port Orchard, WA ---

Hi, Arturo,
 
The e-mail I sent to Jaime A. Holcombe, the son of the researcher, just got
kicked back to me since it is no longer a valid e-mail address.
 
Maybe we can get Jose Luis in Mexico DF to try and find this fellow? 
Also wouldn't all his father's work be in the Archivos Nacional there?
 
I really would like to see what there is on the Escobedo and Talamantes
line. 
 
Thanks,
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

Hi, Arturo,
 
The e-mail I sent to Jaime A. Holcombe, the son of the researcher, just got
kicked back to me since it is no longer a valid e-mail address.
 
Maybe we can get Jose Luis in Mexico DF to try and find this fellow? 
Also wouldn't all his father's work be in the Archivos Nacional there?
 
I really would like to see what there is on the Escobedo and Talamantes
line. 
 
Thanks,
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

Emilie:

Thank you so much for your efforts in trying to locate the repository of Jaime Holcombe's work. How far back are you with your Escobedo ancestry? I have a lot of information on this family that I have collected in hopes of connecting with my own ancestors.

Maria de Covarrubias was married to Francisco de Escobedo, son of Hernando de Escobedo and founder of San Andres del Astillero which came to be known as Monte Escobedo. They (Maria Covarrubias and Francisco de Escobedo) had a number of children that appear in their will: María de Covarrubias, Ana de Escobedo, Francisca de Covarrubias, Juan de Escobedo, Isabel de Rodas, Antonia de Covarrubias y Francisco de Escobedo.

Juan de Escobedo here is (I believe) the founder of Juanacatic (that came to be known as Villa Guerrero, Jalisco) and this Isabel de Rodas is (according to a confusing set of facts attributed to Jaime Holcombe) the same Isabel de Covarrubias that married a certain Captain Jacinto de Talamantes and whose offspring were the first Spanish settlers of what came to be known as Totatiche... Juan, Lucas and Pedro de Covarrubias Talamantes as well as an Isabel de Talamantes who is later found in Parral, Chihuahua.

The senior Maria de Covarrubias that married Francisco de Escobedo was the granddaughter of Francisco de Covarrubias, one of the first treasurers of the Caja de Zacatecas.

Did you know that the founders of Culver City, California were Talamantes from Aguascalientes?

Hi, Arturo,

I have not traced the Escobedo and Talamantes lines as far back as you have, but mine seem to have ended up in the same vicinity about 100 years later, I think. I have also run across the Covarrubias name in my searches in the Jerez parish.

My Escobedo ancestor is Mariana (Maria Ana) Escobedo. She was my gggg-grandmother. She also was surnamed Mata or De Mata or DelsTorre in some records. She married a Pablo Jose Suriano, and they had several children in a place called Salitrillo, and the children were baptized in Tepetongo in the parish of Jerez, Zacatecas. Her children were born between 1797 and 1825, so I think she was married around 1797 and may have been born in the 1770's. That is as far as I have gotten with her.

My husband's Talamantes ancestor was his ggg-grandfather, Jose de la Encarnacion Talamantes who was born in Tlaltenango (is that Jalisco or Zacatecas or Aguascalientes?). He was the son of Jose Segundo Talamantes and Maria Lucia (?) Dieguna. His first wife was Maria Gertrudis Salazar. He married my husband's ggg-grandmother (his 2nd wife) Maria Dorotea Cerbantes in Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco on July 10, 1839. She was the daughter of Juan Jose Cerbantes and Juliana Rubalcaba. That is as far as I have gotten with them.

Well, maybe our Escobedos and Talamantes might be connected somehow.

No, I didn't know that Culver City was founded by Talamantes from Aguascalientes.

I hope you find Jaime Jr. or some documents on your Escobedo/Talamante lines. Let me know if you find any resources for mine.

Thanks,

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

Hi, Arturo,

I have not traced the Escobedo and Talamantes lines as far back as you have, but mine seem to have ended up in the same vicinity about 100 years later, I think. I have also run across the Covarrubias name in my searches in the Jerez parish.

My Escobedo ancestor is Mariana (Maria Ana) Escobedo. She was my gggg-grandmother. She also was surnamed Mata or De Mata or DelsTorre in some records. She married a Pablo Jose Suriano, and they had several children in a place called Salitrillo, and the children were baptized in Tepetongo in the parish of Jerez, Zacatecas. Her children were born between 1797 and 1825, so I think she was married around 1797 and may have been born in the 1770's. That is as far as I have gotten with her.

My husband's Talamantes ancestor was his ggg-grandfather, Jose de la Encarnacion Talamantes who was born in Tlaltenango (is that Jalisco or Zacatecas or Aguascalientes?). He was the son of Jose Segundo Talamantes and Maria Lucia (?) Dieguna. His first wife was Maria Gertrudis Salazar. He married my husband's ggg-grandmother (his 2nd wife) Maria Dorotea Cerbantes in Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco on July 10, 1839. She was the daughter of Juan Jose Cerbantes and Juliana Rubalcaba. That is as far as I have gotten with them.

Well, maybe our Escobedos and Talamantes might be connected somehow.

No, I didn't know that Culver City was founded by Talamantes from Aguascalientes.

I hope you find Jaime Jr. or some documents on your Escobedo/Talamante lines. Let me know if you find any resources for mine.

Thanks,

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

Arturo,

I did not know how to reply to your message that you sent me via my "Contact form". How does one do that?

Anyway, thanks so much for finding the birth record of my husband's ggg-grandfather and gggg-grandfather. You are a fountain of information! So, you and old Tony are primos! This is the kind of thing I have been wanting from this group, is for those who have the records to share them. How did you find this information so quickly? Do you have those microfilms or did you find them in the IGI. Even when I was at the main FHC in Salt Lake City I did not find this information.

Another brick wall I have with this line is that Jose de la Encarnacion's son Ysac, my husband's gg-grandfather, used his mother's surname Cervantes, so Ysac's daughter Marciana also used Cervantes. I found Jose de Encarnacion only by looking for his wife Dorotea Cervantes and in their marriage record it gives his real surname of Talamantes. I cannot find a birth record for Ysac Cervantes [Talamantes], or for Marciana Cervantes [Talamantes]. Supposedly they were born in Encarnacion de Diaz also. Might you have records to help me break through this wall? My fingers are crossed.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

Arturo,

I did not know how to reply to your message that you sent me via my "Contact form". How does one do that?

Anyway, thanks so much for finding the birth record of my husband's ggg-grandfather and gggg-grandfather. You are a fountain of information! So, you and old Tony are primos! This is the kind of thing I have been wanting from this group, is for those who have the records to share them. How did you find this information so quickly? Do you have those microfilms or did you find them in the IGI. Even when I was at the main FHC in Salt Lake City I did not find this information.

Another brick wall I have with this line is that Jose de la Encarnacion's son Ysac, my husband's gg-grandfather, used his mother's surname Cervantes, so Ysac's daughter Marciana also used Cervantes. I found Jose de Encarnacion only by looking for his wife Dorotea Cervantes and in their marriage record it gives his real surname of Talamantes. I cannot find a birth record for Ysac Cervantes [Talamantes], or for Marciana Cervantes [Talamantes]. Supposedly they were born in Encarnacion de Diaz also. Might you have records to help me break through this wall? My fingers are crossed.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

Emilie:

You can send a personal email to any member simply by clicking on their username (which appears above or below one of their postings) and the clicking on the tab that says "Contact".

As far as finding Jose de la Encarnacion, that was a lucky quick search in IGI. The maternal last name thing can make things quite confusing and it is more common when you get to the early 1700s and definitely in the 1600s and back. I have started seeing things where last names would skip generations and children would start using the last name of a grandparent that was not used by either of their parents... strange... also propensity of male children to use mother's name and female children to use father's name.

I will try to follow up on this when I get a chance. If your husband is descendant from this same bunch of Talamantes and the lead on the Jacinto Talamantes and Ysabel Covarrubias hunch pans out, it would not only make your husband and me primos... you would also be primos with a couple of others in the group that are descendant from the same people and (if your Escobedos are the same Escobedos who founded Monte Escobedo) you and your husband would be primos as well... interesting to postulate... perhaps we are getting ahead of ourselves.

Emilie:

You can send a personal email to any member simply by clicking on their username (which appears above or below one of their postings) and the clicking on the tab that says "Contact".

As far as finding Jose de la Encarnacion, that was a lucky quick search in IGI. The maternal last name thing can make things quite confusing and it is more common when you get to the early 1700s and definitely in the 1600s and back. I have started seeing things where last names would skip generations and children would start using the last name of a grandparent that was not used by either of their parents... strange... also propensity of male children to use mother's name and female children to use father's name.

I will try to follow up on this when I get a chance. If your husband is descendant from this same bunch of Talamantes and the lead on the Jacinto Talamantes and Ysabel Covarrubias hunch pans out, it would not only make your husband and me primos... you would also be primos with a couple of others in the group that are descendant from the same people and (if your Escobedos are the same Escobedos who founded Monte Escobedo) you and your husband would be primos as well... interesting to postulate... perhaps we are getting ahead of ourselves.

Wow, me and my husband primos? Wait til I tell him. I have often wondered about that, if it could be possible that our lines crossed somewhere since Jalisco and Zacatecas are neighbors or used to be the same state, no?

I was about to e-mail you back regarding the surnames I saw posted on your account. Other surnames of yours in common with my husband's are Garcia, of course, then Nunez, Martines, Leon, and Lopez. You have more surnames in common with mine in Zacatecas: Campos, Escobedo, Avila, Acevedo, Flores, de La Torre, Alvares, Ortiz, Gonzales, and Ramires. Maybe we will find more connections.

Emilie

Arturo,
I love searching for things such as this because I learn a
lot, but I don't think I found much of use to you. There
are some SSHAR publications on this site that contain some
of Holcombe's work:

http://www.borderlandsbooks.com/ourbooks.asp?catid=all&sortid=ItemTitle…

This person said Holcombe's research is at LDS, but I
couldn't find it. Her post is from 2000, but perhaps she
has the same email and may know something about his
letters:

"are well-supported by Jaime Holcombe's research
(microfilmed and available from Family History Library of
the LDS Church)"

connied@elp.rr.com
Connie Dominguez, genforum, 2000

And this fellow, and his friend John Colligan, had some
contact with Holcombe. Perhaps they know if/where his
letters are kept. Esquivel says on his site that he will
not answer queries, but suuuuurely this is not actually
true of a genealogist!

"Source: Chávez, "New Mexico Roots, Ltd.": 116, DM 1698,
Aug. 1 (no.2), Santa Fe; Mariano González Leal, Retoños de
España en la Nueva Galicia (Universidad de Guanajuato:
1983), Charts 5 & 5b, and Vol II: 328; Private
correspondence from Jaime Holcombe with John B. Colligan."
From: A website maintained by José Antonio Esquibel
Jesquibel@yahoo.com

Kim Raine

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