Online Status

Por erica_peacock |

Hello My name is Erica I am trying to find any information on the following individuals if anyone has more information I would greatly appreciate it! If not I hope this information helps you. I do have more information on other siblings/children but I am still sorting through it to check it's accuracy this is just a direct line of my lineage.

*Information has been provided by my Father and Grandfather and the LDS church website new.familysearch.org

1. Diego Romo
Birth: about 1560 ?
Marriage: Catalina Perez
Fathered: 2. Diego Romo De Vivar
Death: ? after 1589

2. Diego Romo De Vivar
Birth: 12 March 1589 Rielves,,Espana
Marriage: Maria Rangel (peguero)
Fathered: 3. Diego Romo de Vivar
Death: 19 June 1659 Aguascalientes Mexico

3. Diego Romo De Vivar
Birth: 1630 Mexico city mexico
Marriage: Luisa De Los Reyes Y Angeles
Fathered: 4.Nicolas Romo De Vivar
Death: unknown

4. Capitan Nicolas Romo De Vivar
Birth & Christening: 11 September 1656 in Aguascalientes, Mexico
Marriage: 12 February 1684 in Aguascalientes, Mexico to Maria Villalobos
Fathered: 5. Jose Andres Romo De Vivar
Death: 8 December 1714

5. Jose Andres Romo De Vivar
Birth: Aguascalientes, Mexico
Christening: 25 April 1709 Aguascalientes, Mexico
Marriage: 7 March 1734 Pabellon, Aguascalientes, Mexico to Maria Margarita Martinez De Sotomayer
Fathered: 6. Jose Rufino Guadalupe Romo De Vivar
Death: unknown

6. Jose Rufino Guadalupe Romo De Vivar
Birth: 1746 Ricon de Ramos, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Christening: 11 March 1753 Asientos, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Marriage: appears to be 2 different marriages 17 January 1781 and 14 February 1816 both in Aguascalientes Mexico Guadalupe Esparsa and Maria Antonia Esparza
Fathered: 7. Francisco Romo De Vivar
Death: unknown

7. Francisco Romo De Vivar
Birth : unkown
Marriage: 7 June 1815 in Pabellon, Ricon De Romos, Aguascalientes, Mexico to Maria Margarita Guadalupe Oropeza Reyes
Fathered: 8. Jesus Romo
Death: unknown

8.Jesus Romo
Birth: not sure
Christening: 17 September 1822 Ricon de Romos, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Marriage: 9 November 1853 in Aguascalientes to Magdalena (Maria Martas) Olivares
Fathered: 9. Luis Romo
Death: after 1873

9. Luis Romo
Born 25 August 1862 in Ricon De Romos Aguascalientes Mexico
Christened 31 August 1862 in Ricon de Romos Aguascalientes Mexico
Married to Eulogia Sandoval
Fathered: 10. Eligio Romo
Death: unknown

10. Eligio Romo
Birth: 21 December 1891 in Mexico.
Immigrated: To US to escape Poncho Villas draft. He worked for the railroad Marriage: Elvira Moran.
Fathered: 11. Esther Romo
Death: 1975 Placentia Orange Co. California

11.Ester Romo
Birth: 3 October 1923 in San Bernardino California
Marriage: William Eugene Simmons
Death: 11 April 2000 in Ventura California

11. Esther Romo is my grandmother

Hello Erica,

I found some discrepancies in your Romo de Vivar line. Here is what I have
reconstructed from my files:

1. Diego Romo de Vivar
Birth: abt. 1562
Marriage: Catalina Pérez
Fathered: 2. Diego Romo de Vivar
Death: after 1589

2. Diego Romo de Vivar
Birth: 1589
Baptism: 12 Mar 1589 in Rielves, Toledo, Spain
Marriage: Maria Rangel de Viezma y Rosales, aka María Rangel Peguero
Fathered: 3. Diego Romo de Vivar
Death Diego Romo: after 1658
Death María Rangel: 19 June 1659 in Aguascalientes México

3. Capitán Pedro Romo de Vivar
Birth: About 1634 Aguascalientes, México
Marriage: 05 May 1658 Lorenza de Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza)
at Hda. de San Bartolomé, Aguascalientes, México
Fathered: 4. Nicolas Romo de Vivar
Death: after 1692
Death Lorenza de Tiscareño: 14 Feb 1692 Aguascalientes, México

4. Capitán Nicolás Romo De Vivar
Birth: about 1664 in Aguascalientes, México
Marriage: 12 February 1684 in Aguascalientes, México to Maria de
Villalobos
Fathered: 5. José Andrés Romo de Vivar
Death: 8 December 1713
Death María de Villalobos: 26 Feb 1720 Aguascalientes, México

5. José Andrés Romo de Vivar
Birth: 16 Apr 1709 Aguascalientes, México
Baptism: 25 April 1709 Aguascalientes, México
Marriage: 7 March 1734 Pabellón, Rincón de Romos, Aguascalientes, México
to María Margarita Martínez de Sotomayor
Fathered: 6. José Rufino Guadalupe Romo de Vivar
Death: before 1781

I don't have a lot of information about later generations, so for now I'll
stop with José Rufino Romo de Vivar. Notice that Capt. Pedro Romo de Vivar,
who married Lorenza de Tiscareño, was the son of Diego Romo de Vivar and
María Rangel. Capt. Nicolás Romo de Vivar was the son of Capt. Pedro Romo
de Vivar and Lorenza de Tiscareño. He married María de Villalobos. And so
on.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Bill Figueroa

Hi Bill,
Wow Thank you so much! Thank you for filling in the blanks! I knew I knew Pedro's Wife lorenza Had to be a tiscareno because I have found several things stating that five children of Diego Romo de vivar married five children of the Tiscareno family. I was wondering where you got your information. This gives me alot more leads.
 
Some intresting info I have come across
it was a posting of a women named Connie Garcia Dominguez
 
a Book by Mariano Gonzalez-Leal, called "Estudio Historico-Genealogico sobre la Familia Guerra", discusses the arrival of the Romo de Vivar line to the Aguascalientes/Jalisco area. There's an appendix in this book on the Romo de Vivar family, where he delineates the lines extending from Diego Romo de Vivar - specifically, those of Diego's son Pedro.

With regard to this Diego, who married Maria Rangel, Gonzalez-Leal write that he was born in 1589 in Rielves, Espana, was a Captain who arrived in the north of Mexico & was at one time "Teniente de Gobernador de Parral". He later moved towards central Mexico, was "administrador de haciendas de Ovejas en el Bajío" and subsequently owned the "hacienda del Rincón" (which later became Rincon de Romos, Aguascalientes). The book does not give dates for these later events.
Between 1626 and 1656, there is almost no activity for this family in Aguascalientesproper. This is most likely because Maria Rangel remained in Rincon de Romos and raised her family there. In fact, according to my data, most of their children (Maria, Diego, Juan, Isabel, Antonia, Pedro, Geronimo and Francisco) married out of Aguascalientes, but later moved their families there. The only marriages I have on these children is the double-wedding of Juan and Pedro in 1658, and Francisco's marriage in 1668. She (Maria) died in 1659, and was buried in Aguascalientes.

Regarding the family's re-emergence in Aguascalientes, the earliest date I've found would have to be the baptism of Diego & Maria's grandson:

Nicolas, son of Diego Romo de Vivar and Luisa de los Angeles (or de los Reies), baptized on 11 September 1656.
(IGI Film #0299421, p. 47, second section)

It is an interesting family, as 5 of these siblings married 5 siblings of the Tiscareno family. All told, according to the data I've got now, Diego Romo de Vivar and Maria Rangel had 8 children and 32 grandchildren! After that, the Romo de Vivar entries begin flooding in!

Both brothers Diego and Pedro had a son named Nicolas I have had trouble figuring out which Nicolas i am a desendant of

Thank you so much,
Please kep in touch with other geneology findings and I will do the same
Erica

________________________________
From: Bill Figueroa
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, November 9, 2008 9:16:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes

Hello Erica,

I found some discrepancies in your Romo de Vivar line.  Here is what I have
reconstructed from my files:

1. Diego Romo de Vivar
  Birth: abt. 1562
  Marriage: Catalina Pérez
  Fathered: 2. Diego Romo de Vivar
  Death: after 1589

2. Diego Romo de Vivar
  Birth: 1589
  Baptism: 12 Mar 1589 in Rielves, Toledo, Spain
  Marriage: Maria Rangel de Viezma y Rosales, aka María Rangel Peguero
  Fathered: 3. Diego Romo de Vivar
  Death Diego Romo: after 1658
  Death María Rangel:  19 June 1659 in Aguascalientes México

3. Capitán Pedro Romo de Vivar
  Birth: About 1634 Aguascalientes, México
  Marriage: 05 May 1658 Lorenza de Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza)
  at Hda. de San Bartolomé, Aguascalientes, México
  Fathered: 4. Nicolas Romo de Vivar
  Death: after 1692
  Death Lorenza de Tiscareño: 14 Feb 1692 Aguascalientes, México

4. Capitán Nicolás Romo De Vivar
  Birth:  about 1664 in Aguascalientes, México
  Marriage: 12 February 1684 in Aguascalientes, México to Maria de
  Villalobos
  Fathered: 5. José Andrés Romo de Vivar
  Death: 8 December 1713
  Death María de Villalobos: 26 Feb 1720 Aguascalientes, México

5. José Andrés Romo de Vivar
  Birth: 16 Apr 1709 Aguascalientes, México
  Baptism: 25 April 1709 Aguascalientes, México
  Marriage: 7 March 1734 Pabellón, Rincón de Romos, Aguascalientes, México
to María Margarita Martínez de Sotomayor
  Fathered: 6. José Rufino Guadalupe Romo de Vivar
  Death: before 1781

I don't have a lot of information about later generations, so for now I'll
stop with José Rufino Romo de Vivar.  Notice that Capt. Pedro Romo de Vivar,
who married Lorenza de Tiscareño, was the son of Diego Romo de Vivar and
María Rangel.  Capt. Nicolás Romo de Vivar was the son of Capt. Pedro Romo
de Vivar and Lorenza de Tiscareño.  He married María de Villalobos. And so
on.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Bill Figueroa

Hi Erica,

My information about the Romo de Vivar family comes from various sources including genealogy and history books, church and civil records and information posted online. Most of the church and civil records include baptisms, marriage dispensations, padrones parroquiales, final wills and testaments, land grants, land titles, deaths, burials, etc. etc. The Catholic Church has done an excellent job keeping records since the early 1600s. I occasionally use information posted online, but only as reference. Too many errors and misleading info. is posted every day, some of which has NOT been checked or verified against the actual sources. If not caught early, these errors can be devastating and cause many hours of hard work to go to waste. Life is too short to waste valuable time.

My research began a few years ago when I decided to find my Mexican roots. Pretty soon I found myself engaged in an all-out effort to find the genealogy of many early settlers of Aguascalientes and their connecting lines to the families of Jalisco and Zacatecas. My current database includes 9,577 individuals and is still growing. I have not only found my roots, but those of the founding fathers and early settlers of Aguascalientes as well. The original records have been preserved on microfilm for future generations thanks to the vision and hard work of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I do most of my research at a local FHC and concentrate my efforts on specific items when I visit Aguascalientes. Most of all I go there to meet the people, visit old haciendas, and familiarize myself with the lay-of-the-land. My last visit was in February of this year.

I hope this gives you confidence in the information I provided. So far I have not been able to find the book "Estudio Histórico-Genealógico sobre la Familia Guerra" by Mariano González-Leal, but will try to locate it next time I go to México. Do you know the publisher's name and year when it was published?

Take care, Erica. Thank you very much for the information you sent.

Bill Figueroa

fortunately but unfortunately only one library comes up as owning the
book in the US. You can contact them at (210) 207-2500 or
http://www.sanantonio.gov/Library/ to see if they allow ILL on this book:

Libraries with Item: "Estudio histórico-genealó..."( Record for Item |
Get This Item )
Location Library Code
US,TX SAN ANTONIO PUB LIBR SAP

Title: Estudio histórico-genealógico sobre la familia Guerra de las
montañas de Asturias y Santander, ramas de la Nueva Galicia :
con un apéndice sobre la familia Romo de Vivar /
Author(s): González-Leal, Mariano.
Publication: Santa Fe de Guanajuato, [México] : [s.n.] : printer,
Universidad de Guanajuato,
Year: 1982
Description: 127 p. : ill. ; 21 cm.
Language: Spanish
SUBJECT(S)
Descriptor: Spaniards -- Mexico -- Nueva Galicia -- Genealogy.
Españoles -- México -- Nueva Galicia -- Genealogía.
Named Person: Guerra family.
Romo de Vivar family.
Geographic: Nueva Galicia (Mexico) -- Genealogy.
Asturias (Spain) -- Genealogy.
Cantabria (Spain) -- Genealogy.
Mexico -- History -- Spanish Colony, 1540-1810.
Nueva Galicia (México) -- Genealogía.
Asturias (España) -- Genealogía.
Cantabria (España) -- Genealogía.
México -- Historia -- Período colonial, 1540-1810.
Identifier: Santander (Spain : Province); Genealogy.; Santander
(España : Provincia); Genealogía.
Class Descriptors: Dewey: 929.2
Other Titles: Familia Guerra; Familia Gverra
Responsibility: Mariano González-Leal.
Material Type: Biography (bio)
Document Type: Book
Entry: 20080826
Update: 20080826
Accession No: OCLC: 244443281
Database: WorldCat

Bill Figueroa wrote:
> Hi Erica,
>
> My information about the Romo de Vivar family comes from various sources including genealogy and history books, church and civil records and information posted online. Most of the church and civil records include baptisms, marriage dispensations, padrones parroquiales, final wills and testaments, land grants, land titles, deaths, burials, etc. etc. The Catholic Church has done an excellent job keeping records since the early 1600s. I occasionally use information posted online, but only as reference. Too many errors and misleading info. is posted every day, some of which has NOT been checked or verified against the actual sources. If not caught early, these errors can be devastating and cause many hours of hard work to go to waste. Life is too short to waste valuable time.
>
> My research began a few years ago when I decided to find my Mexican roots. Pretty soon I found myself engaged in an all-out effort to find the genealogy of many early settlers of Aguascalientes and their connecting lines to the families of Jalisco and Zacatecas. My current database includes 9,577 individuals and is still growing. I have not only found my roots, but those of the founding fathers and early settlers of Aguascalientes as well. The original records have been preserved on microfilm for future generations thanks to the vision and hard work of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I do most of my research at a local FHC and concentrate my efforts on specific items when I visit Aguascalientes. Most of all I go there to meet the people, visit old haciendas, and familiarize myself with the lay-of-the-land. My last visit was in February of this year.
>
> I hope this gives you confidence in the information I provided. So far I have not been able to find the book "Estudio Histórico-Genealógico sobre la Familia Guerra" by Mariano González-Leal, but will try to locate it next time I go to México. Do you know the publisher's name and year when it was published?
>
> Take care, Erica. Thank you very much for the information you sent.
>
> Bill Figueroa

Bill,

Thank you, I am confidant in your research I was just curious if you knew of any more leads.
I happen to be LDS So I know alot about the information there. You said you go to the FHC Have you registered on the new family search? If not you definatly should, That is where most of my information is from, My Mother in Law is in charge of the FHC In south Houston.
 I would love to take a trip down into Mexico That must be really neat to actually see where your ancestors are from.  As for the book, looks like Joseph took care of finding it I have not been able to physically get a hold of it but I am close enough to San Antonio that I would be able to make a trip there, When I do I will definatly see if I can either photo copy info or I will just take lots of notes.

Thank you again! 
~Erica

________________________________
From: Joseph Puentes
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; Bill Figueroa
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:51:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes

fortunately but unfortunately only one library comes up as owning the
book in the US. You can contact them at (210) 207-2500 or
http://www.sanantonio.gov/Library/ to see if they allow ILL on this book:

Libraries with Item: "Estudio histórico-genealó..."( Record for Item |
Get This Item )
Location    Library    Code
US,TX    SAN ANTONIO PUB LIBR    SAP

Title:    Estudio histórico-genealógico sobre la familia Guerra de las
montañas de Asturias y Santander, ramas de la Nueva Galicia :
con un apéndice sobre la familia Romo de Vivar /
Author(s):    González-Leal, Mariano.
Publication:    Santa Fe de Guanajuato, [México] : [s.n.] : printer,
Universidad de Guanajuato,
Year:    1982
Description:    127 p. : ill. ; 21 cm.
Language:    Spanish
    SUBJECT(S)
Descriptor:    Spaniards -- Mexico -- Nueva Galicia -- Genealogy.
Españoles -- México -- Nueva Galicia -- Genealogía.
Named Person:    Guerra family.
Romo de Vivar family.
Geographic:    Nueva Galicia (Mexico) -- Genealogy.
Asturias (Spain) -- Genealogy.
Cantabria (Spain) -- Genealogy.
Mexico -- History -- Spanish Colony, 1540-1810.
Nueva Galicia (México) -- Genealogía.
Asturias (España) -- Genealogía.
Cantabria (España) -- Genealogía.
México -- Historia -- Período colonial, 1540-1810.
Identifier:    Santander (Spain : Province); Genealogy.; Santander
(España : Provincia); Genealogía.
Class Descriptors:    Dewey: 929.2
Other Titles:    Familia Guerra; Familia Gverra
Responsibility:    Mariano González-Leal.
Material Type:    Biography (bio)
Document Type:    Book
Entry:    20080826
Update:    20080826
Accession No:    OCLC: 244443281
Database:    WorldCat

Bill Figueroa wrote:
> Hi Erica,
>
> My information about the Romo de Vivar family comes from various sources including genealogy and history books, church and civil records and information posted online.  Most of the church and civil records include baptisms, marriage dispensations, padrones parroquiales, final wills and testaments, land grants, land titles, deaths, burials, etc. etc.  The Catholic Church has done an excellent job keeping records since the early 1600s.  I occasionally use information posted online, but only as reference.  Too many errors and misleading info. is posted every day, some of which has NOT been checked or verified against the actual sources.  If not caught early, these errors can be devastating and cause many hours of hard work to go to waste.  Life is too short to waste valuable time.
>
> My research began a few years ago when I decided to find my Mexican roots.  Pretty soon I found myself engaged in an all-out effort to find the genealogy of many early settlers of Aguascalientes and their connecting lines to the families of Jalisco and Zacatecas.  My current database includes 9,577 individuals and is still growing.  I have not only found my roots, but those of the founding fathers and early settlers of Aguascalientes as well.  The original records have been preserved on microfilm for future generations thanks to the vision and hard work of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.  I do most of my research at a local FHC and concentrate my efforts on specific items when I visit Aguascalientes.  Most of all I go there to meet the people, visit old haciendas, and familiarize myself with the lay-of-the-land.  My last visit was in February of this year.
>
> I hope this gives you confidence in the information I provided.  So far I have not been able to find the book "Estudio Histórico-Genealógico sobre la Familia Guerra" by Mariano González-Leal, but will try to locate it next time I go to México.  Do you know the publisher's name and year when it was published?
>
> Take care, Erica.  Thank you very much for the information you sent.
>
> Bill Figueroa

Erica,

Yes, I am registered to use the new Pilot FamilySearch site, but even though
I have found very useful information there, I have also found many errors.
Some involve entire batches of data, indicating that the person transcribing
the records was not paying attention and his/her data was not checked by
another person. As you know, it becomes very difficult to correct errors
once they get into the system. I also found out that it takes time to get a
response from Salt Lake City. A couple of months ago I sent a letter to the
LDS Library reporting some anomalies, but so far I have not heard a word
from them. The information I sent included photographs of actual records
plus other supporting documentation. The errors reported are for records
from Aguascalientes, already a large city by 1720, confused with records
from La Cieneguilla, a farming area some fifteen miles SW of Aguascalientes.
La Cieneguilla had a population of only a few hundred people and was owned
and operated by the Compañía de Jesús de Zacatecas (Jesuits). Other errors
I've found: records from the state of Campeche mixed with records from
Aguascalientes, race of Mexican children reported as being Irish (lots of
them), misspelled surnames names, etc. I wish they had a system online to
report and correct these errors. So, whenever possible, verify all data by
checking actual records on microfilm, i.e. "Trust but Verify".

Bill

Hi Bill,

So true, so true...LDS has many errors, and there seems to be no way to
correct them. An example is the data they have on my great grand mother. I
had the information on one of my family trees in 1998, (do not know how it
became public) without verification, I did the verification in 2002 for all
my great grands, got it right, and it is still there......my errors are on
their site......
Thanks!

Phyls

PS...Is there any way to get my old, and I mean really old trees - dating
back to the late 90's off of Rootswebs.com? I have tried emailing them etc,
nothing seems to work, those old email addresses and erroneous data is still
there!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes

Erica,

Yes, I am registered to use the new Pilot FamilySearch site, but even though
I have found very useful information there, I have also found many errors.
Some involve entire batches of data, indicating that the person transcribing
the records was not paying attention and his/her data was not checked by
another person. As you know, it becomes very difficult to correct errors
once they get into the system. I also found out that it takes time to get a
response from Salt Lake City. A couple of months ago I sent a letter to the
LDS Library reporting some anomalies, but so far I have not heard a word
from them. The information I sent included photographs of actual records
plus other supporting documentation. The errors reported are for records
from Aguascalientes, already a large city by 1720, confused with records
from La Cieneguilla, a farming area some fifteen miles SW of Aguascalientes.
La Cieneguilla had a population of only a few hundred people and was owned
and operated by the Compañía de Jesús de Zacatecas (Jesuits). Other errors
I've found: records from the state of Campeche mixed with records from
Aguascalientes, race of Mexican children reported as being Irish (lots of
them), misspelled surnames names, etc. I wish they had a system online to
report and correct these errors. So, whenever possible, verify all data by
checking actual records on microfilm, i.e. "Trust but Verify".

Bill

I have just made the connection to the Diego Romo de Vivar family of Aguascalientes. As part of my research I looked for him in the Pasajer]os a Indias (at PARES: Portal de Achivos Españoles). I did not find him, but the search turned up several other Romo's but the most interesting were Licenciado Luis Romo and Diego Romo.

For Luis Romo it says:

El Licenciado Luis Romo, natural de Rielves (en la información pone natural de Allende Vacas), soltero, hijo de Juan Romo y de Ana Dias de Aguero, al Perú, Information y licencia en CONTRATACION, 5234B, N, 1, R.29. The record is dated Dec 17, 1591.

For Diego Romo is says:

Diego Romo, natural de Rielves (en la información pone Illán de Vacas), soltero, hijo de Juan Romo y Ana Diaz (de Aguero), al Perú como criado del licenciado Luis Romo. Información y licencia en CONTRATACION, 5234B, N.1, R.30. The reocrd is also dated Dec. 17, 1591.

Diego Romo de Vivar who came to Nueva España was born in 12 Mar 1588/89, in Rielves (source: Connie Dominguez's file on the Romo de Vivar family posted here at Nuestros Ranchos).

I have not yet found any references to Juan Romo and Ana Diaz de Aguero.

Are Diego and Luis who went to Peru related to Diego who went to Mexico?

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

George,

I have seen many people listed in Pasajeros a Indias, with the city where
they are from inadvertently recorded as the last name of the individual. Try
looking for the first name with the city as the last name. You might get
some hits that way. You might also want to do a search in that archive with
the name of the city only and then lastly, just try some variations with the
surname and city to see what comes up.

Another thing that you need to be aware of when searching Pares or
other databases is that, more often than not, the searches are exact. So any
variation in the name will not show up.

For instance, if you type Jerez in Pares you will get many results, but if
you type Xerez or Jeres you will only get a few hits. All the hits might be
relevant to the place or name of interest.

Good luck!

I would not doubt that all these Romo are related, Rielves is just a small pueblo in Spain, prob. some uncles or distant cousins. I also come from the Romo de Vivar several times. -Daniel Camino
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Just wanted to add a note to this thread. In the Retonos de Espana en la Nueva Galicia page 328 it shows a pedigree tree where of many names it states the following:

Cap. Diego ROMO DE VIVAR , Tte. de Gob. del Parral, pacificador de los indios mansos. N, Rielves 12_III_1589 + Sta. Ma. del Rio Florido (Chih)1640

Does this mean that Diego ROMO DE VIVAR died in Sta. Ma. del Rio Florido (Chih) in 1640?

And why "pacificador de los indios mansos?" Do tame indians need to be pacified???

If that's the case then:

This is the Diego ROMO DE VIVAR married to Maria RANGEL +Ags. 1659

Lope RUIZ DE ESPARZA Y DIEZ DE EGUINOA +born in Pamplona died in Ags 14 SEP 1651 married Francisca GABAI + 30 MAR 1652

Luis

Capitan Diego Romo de Vivar was a member of the inquisition
he had family in chihuahua I believe the Romo de VERA family was related to him
the vera came from a wife and was not a corruption of vivar
Ricci

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Xayme
Sent: Sun 3/22/2009 1:45 PM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes

Just wanted to add a note to this thread. In the Retonos de Espana en la Nueva Galicia page 328 it shows a pedigree tree where of many names it states the following:

Cap. Diego ROMO DE VIVAR , Tte. de Gob. del Parral, pacificador de los indios mansos. N, Rielves 12_III_1589 + Sta. Ma. del Rio Florido (Chih)1640

Does this mean that Diego ROMO DE VIVAR died in Sta. Ma. del Rio Florido (Chih) in 1640?

And why "pacificador de los indios mansos?" Do tame indians need to be pacified???

If that's the case then:

This is the Diego ROMO DE VIVAR married to Maria RANGEL +Ags. 1659

Lope RUIZ DE ESPARZA Y DIEZ DE EGUINOA +born in Pamplona died in Ags 14 SEP 1651 married Francisca GABAI + 30 MAR 1652

Luis

Luis,

Diego Romo de Vivar was still alive a year before his wife died on 19 Jun 1659. On 5 May 1658 Capt. Diego Romo de Vivar and María Rangel were "padrinos" at the wedding of their sons Juan and Pedro Romo de Vivar, who married two Tiscareño girls, María and Lorenza, in a double ceremony in Aguascalientes. His son Capt. Juan Romo de Vivar, Justicia Mayor de Aguascalientes, and his wife María Tiscareño, are my 8th great grandparents. The marriage record reads as follows:

"El 5 de mayo de 1658 en la capilla de Luys Tiscareño casé y velé a Juan Romo de Vivar con María de Tiscareño, y a Pedro Romo de Vivar con Lorenza de Esparza [Lorenza de Tiscareño] siendo padrinos de Juan Romo, Juan de Tiscareño y Isabel Romo su muger, y de Pedro Romo el Capitán Diego Romo de Vivar y María Rangel su muger. Fueron testigos el sargento Don Alonso Ramírez de Prado, Alcalde Mayor de esta villa, y Don Lorenzo Ramírez de Prado."

Here is some additional information from "Familia Romo de Vivar: Una de las Ramas de Aguascalientes y Teocaltiche," Academia Mexicana de Genealogia e Historia (AMG) 5 1a Series (1949): 141-167. This information was provided in various letters by Jaime Holcombe.

Volume 129 (1755-1784) of the "Comprobación de Méritos de Bachilleres, Licenciados y Doctores de la Real y Pontificia Universidad de México" contains the following record, beginning on page 91:

"Doctor Francisco Mariano Rangel Alcaraz, natural de la Ciudad, hijo de Diego Rangel de Viezma y María Nicolasa Alcaraz Villarreal, vecinos de la Ciudad. Nieto paterno de Ignacio Rangel de Viezma y Francisca Contreras; bisnieto del Alférez Real Juan Rangel de Viezma, primer descubridor de San José del Parral."

Said discoverer of the mineral lodes in the Chihuahua township now named Hidalgo del Parral, appears as Juan Rangel Peguero in other records. A resident of Zacatecas and the son of the Conquistador Alonso Rangel and Luisa Velásquez de Salazar, he married María Rosales. **

His daugher, María Rangel was the spouse of Captain Diego Romo de Vivar, from Rielves, Toledo, where he was christened 12 March 1589 as a son of Diego Romo and Catalina Pérez. Romo had come to New Spain as "Teniente de Gobernador de San José del Parral y pacificador de los indios mansos."

The Romos eventually settled in Aguascalientes, where María died on 19 June 1659. Shortly after, Diego returned to Parral, where the family owned properties, and died there. Among his belongings was the Rancho de Canutillo, later owned by Francisco Villa, who was assassinated in Parral on 20 June 1923 by Jesús Salas Barraza's men.

Most of the Romo de Vivar descendants remained in Aguascalientes and populated different parts of Nueva Galicia province. However, several descendants with the Romo and Cobos surnames went to Chihuahua. Salvador Treviño Castro, S. J. has done extensive research on those lines."

I guess Diego Romo de Vivar was "pacificador de los indios mansos" because the "indios belicosos" were either killed or forced into submission by the Spaniards who conquered la Nueva Galicia.

Bill Figueroa

Juan ROMO DE VIVAR is the husband of my 8x great-grandmother.
Pedro ROMO DE VIVAR is the husband of my 8x great-aunt
I suspect that same ROMO line marries into the JAIME line further on down the line too.

Would you happen to know how is this Pedro ROMO related to:

Pedro Jesus ROMO DE VIVAR m. Maria Guadalupe CASTANEDA JAIME
31 Mar 1786 in San Jose de Gracia, Rincon de Romos, AGS, MX?

Luis TISCARENO DE MOLINA Y MARQUEZ is my 9x great-grandfather

So you're saying that Alférez Real Juan RANGEL DE VIEZMA is actually Juan RANGEL PEGUERO?

And if so, do I understand correctly that he is the father of:
Ignacio RANGEL DE VIEZMA m. Francisca CONTRERAS
who is the father of:
Diego RANGEL DE VIEZMA m. Maria Nicolasa ALCARAZ VILLAREAL
who was the father of:
Dr. Francisco Mariano RANGEL ALCARAZ?

Luis,

If Juan ROMO DE VIVAR is the husband of your 8x great-grandmother, then Juan is your 8x great-grandfather, right? jejeje

I have Pedro Jose ROMO DE VIVAR (not Pedro Jesus) who married Maria Guadalupe CASTANEDA 21 Mar 1786 in Rincon de Romos (ayuda de Parroquia de San Jose de Gracia) as the second great-grandson of Diego Romo de Vivar. The connections are as follows:

*Person: Pedro Jose ROMO DE VIVAR married to Maria Guadalupe CASTANEDA
Parents: Joseph Andrés ROMO DE VIVAR and Maria Margarita MARTIN DE SOTOMAYOR
Paternal grandparents: Nicolas ROMO DE VIVAR and MARIA DE VILLALOBOS
Paternal great-grandparents: Pedro ROMO DE VIVAR and LORENZA TISCARENO
*Paternal 2x great-grandparents: Diego ROMO DE VIVAR and MARIA RANGEL DE VIEZMA Y ROSALES
Paternal 3x great-grandparents: Diego ROMO DE VIVAR and CATALINA PEREZ

I will answer your other questions tomorrow. It is close to midnight in Dallas and I've been working out. Will talk to you in the morning.

Bill Figueroa

Thanks Bill,

I knew there had to be another connection somewhere... Would you send me the dates resources on those? Also, does your ROMO line happen to go down to Miguel Santos ROMO m. Maria OCHOA?

And for the record there are two Juan ROMO DE VIVARs right? Juan ROMO DE VIVAR RANGEL and Juan ROMO DE VIVAR TISCARENO?

And about Juan ROMO DE VIVAR being the husband of my 8x great-grandmother, then Juan being 8x great-grandfather. I thought that was the case but that's how my FTW software calculated it which I thought was pretty weird... LOL

Thanks again,
Luis

Luis,

This is in answer some of your questions:

1) My line does NOT go Miguel Santos ROMO who married Maria OCHOA. I have no information on this couple.
2) I'll look up the resources you requested and send them via separate email within the next couple of days.
3) As far as I know, Juan ROMO DE VIVAR RANGEL and Maria TISCARENO did not have a son named Juan. There was a Juan ROMO DE VIVAR TISCARENO, the son Pedro ROMO DE VIVAR and Lorenza TISCARENO. I have no information about him, other than he probably died young. I have several Juan ROMO VIVARs in my database. Which one did you have in mind?

Bill

Luis,

Here is some additional info. about the RANGEL families of Nueva Galicia:

The Alférez Real Juan RANGEL DE VIEZMA, who married María ROSALES, was also known as Juan RANGEL PEGUERO. He was the son of Alonso RANGEL PEGUERO, Conquistador, and Luisa VELASQUEZ DE SALAZAR. My good friend Felipe REYES ROMO gave me the following information about Juan RANGEL PEGUERO:

1583. Se otorga en la Cd. de México un poder de Juan Rangel a Marcos de Biesma.

1584. Merced de la Real Audiencia, año de 1584, a Juan Rangel Peguero de un sitio de estancia para ganado menor en términos de Pachuca, cerca de los de Tilquautla, con la posesión que tomó, y la información que dio doña Francisca Velásquez de Salazar de como le pertenecía a ella y a sus hijos.

1584. Merced de tierras en favor de Juan Rangel Pegueros compartiéndola con Rodrigo Yáñez.

The Alférez Real Juan RANGEL DE VIEZMA and María ROSALES were the parents of:

1. Ignacio RANGEL DE VIEZMA m. Francisca CONTRERAS. Their son Diego RANGEL DE VIEZMA CONTRERAS married María Nicolasa ALCARAZ VILLAREAL They were the parents of Dr. Francisco Mariano RANGEL ALCARAZ.
2. Diego PEGUERO RANGEL m. Juana ORTIZ CORTES
3. Maria RANGEL DE VIEZMA m. Diego ROMO DE VIVAR

Bill Figueroa

Hi Bill:

I know your message was addressed to Erica but I read it too and I have a
question about it for you:

Under #2 Diego Romo de Vivar , you have that he fathered: #3 Diego Romo de
Vivar. but for #3 you list Capitan Pedro Romo de Vivar instead of "Diego".
Which is right? or was Capitan Pedro Romo de Vivar also named Diego?
Am I missing something here?...

Thank you

John Gonzalez

========================================================================================

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 19:16
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes

Hello Erica,

I found some discrepancies in your Romo de Vivar line. Here is what I have
reconstructed from my files:

1. Diego Romo de Vivar
Birth: abt. 1562
Marriage: Catalina Pérez
Fathered: 2. Diego Romo de Vivar
Death: after 1589

2. Diego Romo de Vivar
Birth: 1589
Baptism: 12 Mar 1589 in Rielves, Toledo, Spain
Marriage: Maria Rangel de Viezma y Rosales, aka María Rangel Peguero
Fathered: 3. Diego Romo de Vivar
Death Diego Romo: after 1658
Death María Rangel: 19 June 1659 in Aguascalientes México

3. Capitán Pedro Romo de Vivar
Birth: About 1634 Aguascalientes, México
Marriage: 05 May 1658 Lorenza de Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza)
at Hda. de San Bartolomé, Aguascalientes, México
Fathered: 4. Nicolas Romo de Vivar
Death: after 1692
Death Lorenza de Tiscareño: 14 Feb 1692 Aguascalientes, México

4. Capitán Nicolás Romo De Vivar
Birth: about 1664 in Aguascalientes, México
Marriage: 12 February 1684 in Aguascalientes, México to Maria de
Villalobos
Fathered: 5. José Andrés Romo de Vivar
Death: 8 December 1713
Death María de Villalobos: 26 Feb 1720 Aguascalientes, México

5. José Andrés Romo de Vivar
Birth: 16 Apr 1709 Aguascalientes, México
Baptism: 25 April 1709 Aguascalientes, México
Marriage: 7 March 1734 Pabellón, Rincón de Romos, Aguascalientes, México
to María Margarita Martínez de Sotomayor
Fathered: 6. José Rufino Guadalupe Romo de Vivar
Death: before 1781

I don't have a lot of information about later generations, so for now I'll
stop with José Rufino Romo de Vivar. Notice that Capt. Pedro Romo de Vivar,
who married Lorenza de Tiscareño, was the son of Diego Romo de Vivar and
María Rangel. Capt. Nicolás Romo de Vivar was the son of Capt. Pedro Romo
de Vivar and Lorenza de Tiscareño. He married María de Villalobos. And so
on.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Bill Figueroa

To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

HI John Gonzalez,
I can answer this for you Pedro was one of 8 siblings in which he had a brother named Deigo, Bill used this outline from me in which I once had that Pedro and Diego where the same person but i have since found they are brothers I have more information if you would like! You can see the last email I sent to bill about the information.

Hope this answers your question.
Thank you,
Erica

________________________________
From: John Gonzalez <1gnzlz@verizon.net>
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; Bill Figueroa
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:31:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes

Hi Bill:

I know your message was addressed to Erica but I read it too and I have a question about it for you:

Under #2 Diego Romo de Vivar , you have that he fathered: #3 Diego Romo de Vivar. but for #3 you list Capitan Pedro Romo de Vivar instead of "Diego". Which is right? or was Capitan Pedro Romo de Vivar also named Diego?
Am I missing something here?...

Thank you

John Gonzalez

========================================================================================

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Figueroa"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 19:16
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes

Hello Erica,

I found some discrepancies in your Romo de Vivar line.  Here is what I have
reconstructed from my files:

1. Diego Romo de Vivar
  Birth: abt. 1562
  Marriage: Catalina Pérez
  Fathered: 2. Diego Romo de Vivar
  Death: after 1589

2. Diego Romo de Vivar
  Birth: 1589
  Baptism: 12 Mar 1589 in Rielves, Toledo, Spain
  Marriage: Maria Rangel de Viezma y Rosales, aka María Rangel Peguero
  Fathered: 3. Diego Romo de Vivar
  Death Diego Romo: after 1658
  Death María Rangel:  19 June 1659 in Aguascalientes México

3. Capitán Pedro Romo de Vivar
  Birth: About 1634 Aguascalientes, México
  Marriage: 05 May 1658 Lorenza de Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza)
  at Hda. de San Bartolomé, Aguascalientes, México
  Fathered: 4. Nicolas Romo de Vivar
  Death: after 1692
  Death Lorenza de Tiscareño: 14 Feb 1692 Aguascalientes, México

4. Capitán Nicolás Romo De Vivar
  Birth:  about 1664 in Aguascalientes, México
  Marriage: 12 February 1684 in Aguascalientes, México to Maria de
  Villalobos
  Fathered: 5. José Andrés Romo de Vivar
  Death: 8 December 1713
  Death María de Villalobos: 26 Feb 1720 Aguascalientes, México

5. José Andrés Romo de Vivar
  Birth: 16 Apr 1709 Aguascalientes, México
  Baptism: 25 April 1709 Aguascalientes, México
  Marriage: 7 March 1734 Pabellón, Rincón de Romos, Aguascalientes, México
to María Margarita Martínez de Sotomayor
  Fathered: 6. José Rufino Guadalupe Romo de Vivar
  Death: before 1781

I don't have a lot of information about later generations, so for now I'll
stop with José Rufino Romo de Vivar.  Notice that Capt. Pedro Romo de Vivar,
who married Lorenza de Tiscareño, was the son of Diego Romo de Vivar and
María Rangel.  Capt. Nicolás Romo de Vivar was the son of Capt. Pedro Romo
de Vivar and Lorenza de Tiscareño.  He married María de Villalobos. And so
on.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Bill Figueroa

To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Hi Erica:

Thank you for taking the time to get me straightened out about this family.
I too descend from the "Romo de Vivar" line.
Thank you for offering more information. Do you have any "Romo" or "Romo
de Vivar" from Santa Ana or Jalostotitlan?

Thank you.

John Gonzalez
1gnzlz@verizon.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "erica Peacock"
To:
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 08:45
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes

HI John Gonzalez,
I can answer this for you Pedro was one of 8 siblings in which he had a
brother named Deigo, Bill used this outline from me in which I once had that
Pedro and Diego where the same person but i have since found they are
brothers I have more information if you would like! You can see the last
email I sent to bill about the information.

Hope this answers your question.
Thank you,
Erica

John,

Diego Romo de Vivar and María Rangel had the following children:

1.. Joseph Romo de Vivar, baptized 30 Jun 1625 at the Church of San Felipe Apóstol, Guanajuato. In 1644 Joseph married Juana Solís de Calahorra in Chihuahua. The following information extracted by Manuel Rosales, Cronista de Camargo, was published in the "Book of Marriages, Presidio de Conchos".

In 1644 in the Presidio de Conchos, Chihuahua, were married Joseph Romo de Vivar Rangel, the son of Capitán Diego Romo de Vivar and María Rangel, and Juana de Solís Calahorra, the daughter of Capitán Juan de Solís and María de Calahorra

Joseph Romo de Vivar and Juana Solís had a son Gerónimo Romo de Vivar who married Margarita de Tiscareño, daughter of Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza.

2.. Diego Romo de Vivar, born ca.1630 in México City, married Luisa de los Reyes (full name María Luisa de los Angeles de los Reyes).

3.. Capt. Juan Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1632, married María de Tiscareño (aka María Gabai) at Hacienda de San Bartolomé on 05 May 1658. Juan Romo de Vivar and María de Tiscareño are my ancestors. Capt. Juan Romo de Vivar was Supreme Justice of the Peace (Justicia Mayor) of Aguascalientes in 1670-1672 . His name appears in many legal documents of that period.

4.. Capt. Pedro Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1634, married Lorenza de Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza) at Hacienda de San Bartolomé on 05 May 1658. This was a double wedding, two brothers marrying two sisters on the same day. The Hacienda de San Bartolomé belonged to Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza. It is now called Hacienda de San Bartolo. I sent you some pictures earlier this year.

5.. Isabel Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1638, married Capt. Juan de Tiscareño ca. 1656. Juan was María and Lorenza's older brother.

6.. Francisco Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1644, married Lorenza Delgado Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Gabai) on 12 Feb 1668 at Hda. de San Bartolomé. Lorenza was a granddaughter of Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza.

7.. Antonia Romo de Vivar.

8.. María Romo de Vivar.

I don't have any information on 7 and 8. Let me know if you find anything about them.

Hope this answers your question about Diego and Pedro Romo de Vivar.

Regards,
Bill Figueroa

Hi Bill,

Hope this helps, I got this info from Ancestry.com

Name:  Antonia Romo De Vivar Y De Rangel
Birth:  Abt 1636 - Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Death:  Abt 1672 - Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Parents:  Diego Romo De Vivar Y Perez, Maria De Rangel Y Pegüero
 
I have still not found any information on Maria except that she exsisted.
 
I have a question in regard to 
Nicolas Romo de Vivar 
Born 11 Sep.1656 in  Aguascalientes Mexico
married to Maria Villalobos/ marianna villalobs spelling varies*
Death 8 dec 1714 el sagrario, Aguascalientes ,Mexico
I keep finding him as the son of both Pedro Romo De Vivar & lorenza Tiscareno  and Diego Romo De Vivar & Luisa De los Reyes y Angeles I know one has to be wrong but i haven't been able to figure it out. Do you know for sure who the correct parents are?
 
Thank you,
Erica
 
John,

Diego Romo de Vivar and María Rangel had the following children:

  1.. Joseph Romo de Vivar, baptized 30 Jun 1625 at the Church of San Felipe Apóstol, Guanajuato.  In 1644 Joseph married Juana Solís de Calahorra in Chihuahua.  The following information extracted by Manuel Rosales, Cronista de Camargo, was published in the "Book of Marriages, Presidio de Conchos".

  In 1644 in the Presidio de Conchos, Chihuahua, were married Joseph Romo de Vivar Rangel, the son of Capitán Diego Romo de Vivar and María Rangel, and Juana de Solís Calahorra, the daughter of Capitán Juan de Solís and María de Calahorra

  Joseph Romo de Vivar and Juana Solís had a son Gerónimo Romo de Vivar who married Margarita de Tiscareño, daughter of Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza.

  2.. Diego Romo de Vivar, born ca.1630 in México City, married Luisa de los Reyes (full name María Luisa de los Angeles de los Reyes). 

  3.. Capt. Juan Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1632, married María de Tiscareño (aka María Gabai) at Hacienda de San Bartolomé on 05 May 1658.  Juan Romo de Vivar and María de Tiscareño are my ancestors.  Capt. Juan Romo de Vivar was Supreme Justice of the Peace (Justicia Mayor) of Aguascalientes in 1670-1672 .  His name appears in many legal documents of that period.

  4.. Capt. Pedro Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1634, married Lorenza de Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza) at Hacienda de San Bartolomé on 05 May 1658.  This was a double wedding, two brothers marrying two sisters on the same day.  The Hacienda de San Bartolomé belonged to Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza.  It is now called Hacienda de San Bartolo.  I sent you some pictures earlier this year.

  5.. Isabel Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1638, married Capt. Juan de Tiscareño ca. 1656.  Juan was María and Lorenza's older brother.

  6.. Francisco Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1644, married Lorenza Delgado Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Gabai) on 12 Feb 1668 at Hda. de San Bartolomé.  Lorenza was a granddaughter of Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza.

  7.. Antonia Romo de Vivar.

  8.. María Romo de Vivar.

I don't have any information on 7 and 8.  Let me know if you find anything about them.

Hope this answers your question about Diego and Pedro Romo de Vivar.

Regards,
Bill Figueroa

Erica,

This is the case of two first cousins with the same name (Nicolás Romo de Vivar) marrying two first cousins with similar names (Mariana and María de Villalobos). The first married Mariana de Villalobos, daughter of Nicolás de Villalobos and Theresa Carrillo de Sandi, residents of Teocaltiche, and the second María de Villalobos, daughter of Salvador de Villalobos and Francisca Martín del Campo, from San Juan de los Lagos, Teocaltiche and Aguascalientes.
1.. Nicolás Romo de Vivar, baptized 11 Sep 1656 at Parroquia de la Asunción de Aguascalientes, was the son of Diego Romo de Vivar and María Luisa de los Angeles de los Reyes. He married Mariana de Villalobos 14 Jan 1686 at the Church of Nuestra Señora de los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco.

2.. Nicolás Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1664 (have not found his baptism) was the son of Capt. Pedro Romo de Vivar and Lorenza de Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza). He married María de Villalobos (aka María López de la Cruz) 12 Feb 1684 at Parroquia de la Asunción de Aguascalientes.
Some of the relationships, names and aliases of the early settlers can be very confusing. Girls often used the names of their beloved grandmothers to honor them. You really have to build a huge family tree with all these people in order to keep them straight in your mind.

Bill Figueroa

Hola Pariente , I went to #6 below -Francisco Romo de Vivar , I went to WWW.familysearch.org. trying to see who was Lorenza Delgado Tiscareno(Ruiz de Esparza) parents. This site tells me that Luis Tiscareno and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza are her parents. Is this another error on this site and if so who were her parents?
thanks for your time
tu primo
Ronnie Reynoso
From: bill_figueroa@usa.net> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:01:28 -0600> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Romo De Vivar Aguascalientes> > John,> > Diego Romo de Vivar and María Rangel had the following children:> > 1.. Joseph Romo de Vivar, baptized 30 Jun 1625 at the Church of San Felipe Apóstol, Guanajuato. In 1644 Joseph married Juana Solís de Calahorra in Chihuahua. The following information extracted by Manuel Rosales, Cronista de Camargo, was published in the "Book of Marriages, Presidio de Conchos". > > In 1644 in the Presidio de Conchos, Chihuahua, were married Joseph Romo de Vivar Rangel, the son of Capitán Diego Romo de Vivar and María Rangel, and Juana de Solís Calahorra, the daughter of Capitán Juan de Solís and María de Calahorra> > Joseph Romo de Vivar and Juana Solís had a son Gerónimo Romo de Vivar who married Margarita de Tiscareño, daughter of Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza.> > 2.. Diego Romo de Vivar, born ca.1630 in México City, married Luisa de los Reyes (full name María Luisa de los Angeles de los Reyes). > > 3.. Capt. Juan Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1632, married María de Tiscareño (aka María Gabai) at Hacienda de San Bartolomé on 05 May 1658. Juan Romo de Vivar and María de Tiscareño are my ancestors. Capt. Juan Romo de Vivar was Supreme Justice of the Peace (Justicia Mayor) of Aguascalientes in 1670-1672 . His name appears in many legal documents of that period.> > 4.. Capt. Pedro Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1634, married Lorenza de Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza) at Hacienda de San Bartolomé on 05 May 1658. This was a double wedding, two brothers marrying two sisters on the same day. The Hacienda de San Bartolomé belonged to Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza. It is now called Hacienda de San Bartolo. I sent you some pictures earlier this year.> > 5.. Isabel Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1638, married Capt. Juan de Tiscareño ca. 1656. Juan was María and Lorenza's older brother.> > 6.. Francisco Romo de Vivar, born ca. 1644, married Lorenza Delgado Tiscareño (aka Lorenza Gabai) on 12 Feb 1668 at Hda. de San Bartolomé. Lorenza was a granddaughter of Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza.> > 7.. Antonia Romo de Vivar.> > 8.. María Romo de Vivar.> > I don't have any information on 7 and 8. Let me know if you find anything about them.> > Hope this answers your question about Diego and Pedro Romo de Vivar.> > Regards,> Bill Figueroa> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --> Nuestros Ranchos General Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> general(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
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Hey Ronnie,

Let me see if I can explain this without making it too confusing.

Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza had a daughter named
Lorenza Tiscareño, also known as Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza (like her mother).
This Lorenza married Capt. Pedro Romo de Vivar.

Luis and Lorenza also had a daughter named Francisca who went by the name
Francisca Gabai (instead of Francisca Tiscareño). She was named after her
grandmother Francisca Gabai de Moctezuma. There were no rules to name
children like we have today, so sometimes people gave their children the
name of a beloved grandfather or grandmother, surname included.

This Francisca Gabai, the daughter of Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza
Ruiz de Esparza, married Joseph Delgado on 30 Aug 1644 at the Parroquia de
la Asunción in Aguascalientes. They had several children and one of them
was also named Lorenza. I have seen her name written Lorenza Delgado Gabai,
Lorenza Delgado Tiscareño and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza. I think they thought
it was "cool" to name their daughters exactly as their grandmothers. Some
church records refer to Lorenza Delgado as Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza, her
grandmother's name. Lorenza Delgado married Francisco Romo de Vivar on 12
Feb 1668 at the chapel in Luis Tiscareño's "Hacienda de San Bartolo".

In summary, there were three Lorenzas Ruiz de Esparza:

1) The daughter of Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Francisca Gabai de Moctezuma,
who married Luis Tiscareño de Molina.
2) The daughter of Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza, who
married Pedro Romo de Vivar.
3) The daughter of Joseph Delgado and Francisca Gabai (Francisca Tiscareño)
who married Francisco Romo de Vivar.

Hope this sheds some light on this confusing issue.

Take care, primo.

Bill Figueroa

History, Culture and General Discussion