Hello friends
You should consider posting your results on Gary Felix's "Mexico DNA Project" website and see if you some day get Perez or Ornelas matches:
http://garyfelix.tripod.com/index63.htm
At the bottom of the page they have contact information.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Por aqui en el Foro no hace mucho me tope con un tema donde alguien comentaba tener algunos manuscritos de uno de los hijos de Jose Ana Gutierrez donde narraba sus vivencias desde la infancia con sus
Hola Paco, este Jose Ana es hijo de Don Miguel Antonio Gutierres Gonzales y de Maria Guadalupe Romo Parada?
Salvador: estos son los datos de El..
Jose Ana Gutierrez
Nacido el 25 Jul 1815 "El Tule" San Juan de Los Lagos, Jalisco
Bautizado el dia 28 Jul 1815 en San Juan de Los Lagos
Caso con Maria Canuta Padilla el dia 1 Oct de 1839 en Jalostotitlan
Murio al dia 30 Nov 1900
Hello, I have been trying to find my great great grandfather for some time now with no success. He has a more common name than some of my other ancestors whom I have already discovered.
On the "plus" side is that he was born about 1856. That's far back enough that there ARE some records available. I assume you know a little bit about him/his family.
The most important thing is where was he born (or your best guess). If he was born in Mexico, then try Family Search.org https://familysearch.org/. Try seacch using each Mexican State. i.e. Juan Perez (Peres) Jalisco, Mexico using a larger year span like 1836 - 1876. Keep repeating until you use all Mexican States.
You should be alert that many Mexican individuals have 2 or more first,middle names/ Saint's name and 2 surnames (father and mother). Family Search,org let's you include his wife and parents in the search. Use whatever info you have; if all you have is a wife's or mother.s first name, then use that in your search.
I've encountered several name variations of the same individual. l.e. Juan Perez/Juan Peres/ Jose Juan Perez/ often the individual uses his mother's maiden name. If you know it, then also look for that i.e. if Garcia is mother's surname, also try Juan Perez Garcia or EVEN Juan Garcia.
The easier way is to interview his relatives. If they don't know much, then ask if they know where Juan was married, etc.
Welcome to Genealogy 101.
Jose Carlos de Leon
Hello Jose,
I will try going state by state. I have done the rest many times over.
Hopefully I can get a hit by trying this way.
Thank you very much,
Kristine
Kristine, although the folks at familysearch.org have done an outstanding job with respect to making records available, you can't always rely on using the search engine to find your records. For example, my great grandmother and all her siblings were baptized in the late 1800's and early 1900's in the city of Durango. Only the half baptized in the 1900's could be found when I tried to locate them simply by searching the indexed names.
It wasn't until I went page by page through all the baptisms for a 15 year period that I was able to find all but one record. With several churches to select from, I was lucky that I knew which one they attended.
If you can locate marriage records for the children, the record or the Informacion Matrimonial will sometimes state where the parents were originally from.
If you haven't already done it, look to see if there is a civil record for his marriage or the birth of the children as well. Once again he will have stated where he was from originally. Bad news... these are not indexed. Good news... you may find an index in the actual book that will help narrow your search.
Good luck
Raul Munoz
Este apellido es de esta zona, alguien tiene referencia sobre este apellido.
Hello Everyone,
Roberto,
Check the following to see if you can find some more clues.
Dispensa of Gaspar de Lomelín. Look at the witnesses also.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18377-18842-17?cc=1874591&wc…
Marriage of the son of Gaspar de Lomelín.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15185-45517-18?cc=1410092&wc…
As Enrique suggested, always look for the Información Matrimonial records, even for descendants since sometimes they will have witnesses which provide more clues.
Armando
Hi Armando,
Thank you very much. I am now wondering whether Maria Rosa Ximenes was sister of Juan de Dios Ximenes, and Mariana de Lomeli and Gaspar de Lomeli were siblings as well. According to other resources Gaspar had a sister named Mariana, and the time frame is somewhat close.
Thank you
Hi,
I'm not related with the Nochistlán families but have you tried reserching on the Información Matrimonial records? It seems that the year of their marriage has already registers on the Información Matrimonial book. Start lookig 2 months before the marriage or so, because I've seen that sometimes the process for getting married began at that time or even one month before or one month after. If you find their information record you'll find the their parents' names and maybe more details.
Enrique Agraz
Hi Enrique,
Thank you for the suggestion. I did try looking for the Información matrimonial of Nochistlan during that period, there is no récords for información 1707-1730. Do you know where I can find the informacion matrimonio somewhere else?
Thank you
Roberto Rosales Villalpando
Riverside,CA
I took another look at what Chipman says in "Moctezuma's Children" concerning the litigation concerning Tacuba and Ecatepec in an attempt to focus research efforts in the search for documents naming P
Thanks to the work of John Schmal ... see http://latinola.com/story.php?story=12449
Ana Sotelo de Mocetzuma was baptized September 7, 1553, in Mexico City.
Citation:
"México, Distrito Federal, registros parroquiales y diocesanos, 1514-1970," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-9758-14785-61?cc=1615259&wc=… : accessed 16 Jan 2014), Mexico, Distrito Federal, Catholic Church Records, 1514-1970 > Mexico, Distrito Federal, Catholic Church Records, 1514-1970 > Asunción Sagrario Metropolitano (Centro) > Bautismos de españoles 1536-1546, 1552-1589 > image 219 of 1003.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Hola grupo,
¡Aquí les va una en inglés…pero no se empiquen!
In John P. Schmal’s January 8, 2014 internet article “Moctezuma's Descendants in Aguascalientes: Tracking the offspring of the last Aztec monarch” [ http://latinola.com/story.php?story=12449 ], he mentions that Leonor de Valderrama and her husband Diego Arias de Sotelo had the following children:
1. Don Fernando de Sotelo, the third encomendero of Tarímbaro and San Cristobal Ecatepec. He later became the Mayor of Colima and died sometime after 1604.
2. Don Cristobal de Sotelo Valderrama was married Juana de Heredia Patino in 1594 in Mexico City and is believed to have died in 1607.
3. Dona Ana de Sotelo Moctezuma, baptized Sept. 7, 1553 in Asuncion Parish, Mexico City. She became a nun.
4. Petronila Moctezuma (Montezuma). She was married to Martin de Gabay, also known as Martin Navarro.
He also writes the following:
In addition to locating the baptism of Ana in 1553, we discovered a 1594 marriage document from the Archdiocese of Mexico City which provides the following information: "X'poval [Christobal] Sotelo Valderrama natural de esta ciudad hijo legitimo de Diego Arias Sotelo y Don Leonor ---- [unreadable] - difuntos [deceased]."
http://latinola.com/story.php?story=12449
He only lists four children, which is of course an incomplete listing, but most importantly is the fact that he mentions the baptism on Sept. 7, 1553 in Asuncion Parish [El Sagrario Metropolitano], Mexico City, of Ana de Sotelo Moctezuma. That and the 1594 marriage document from the Archdiocese of Mexico City are most definitely important documents. I’m glad you Denise and George opened the article, read it and noticed the two important references and that you took the initiative to look for them. I will find, thanks to you, and transcribe them thoroughly.
For those of you who want the direct links here they are:
Baptism of Ana de Sotelo y Valderrama, 7 Sep 1553, Sagrario Metropolitano, México –
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-9758-14785-61?cc=1615259&wc=…
Marriage information of Cristóbal de Sotelo y Valderrama & Juana Patiño de Heredia, dated 25 Aug 1594, México – (5 pages) –
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-17760-104704-6?cc=1615259&wc…
By the way, the pertinent portion reads as follows: “Don Xpoval Sotelo Valderrama natural desta cibdad hijo legítimo de Diego Arias Sotelo y doña Leonor de Valderrama, difuntos, digo que yo tengo tratado de me casar según horden de la S.ta madre iglesia con Doña Juana Patiño de heredia doncella, hija legítima de Baltasar de Bargas y doña fran.ca de heredia vezinos desta cibdad…”
Leonor’s last name on that line reads “Val” and what looks like an illegible smudge, but if you read on the margin of the next line, before it says “difuntos”, on the margin it reads “deRrama”.
Meanwhile, I on the other hand located the dated 30 June 1559, “CONFIRMACION DE OFICIO: DIEGO ARIAS DE SOTELO” on PARES (Archivo General de Indias, México, 169, N.34)
I am transcribing the paleography of the entire 14-page document in hopes that it would reveal something about his children, and in particular Petronila, if she even was a child of his. So far I am about half-way done. So far from what I have transcribed, he has clearly stated that he was born in “Aldea del Palo tierra de çamora”, “que es vecino de la çiudad de méxico”, that his parents were “Capitán Antonio de Sotelo…y…Vzenda nuñez”, and that he has children and is married. That tantalized me, because the document at that point did not name her or the children…so far!!
The PARES document, dated 30 June 1559, continues and states on Imagen Núm: 8 / 14 n 1559 was Diego Arias de Sotelo “es casado en la dha çiudad de mexico e Reside allí con su muger e hijos e que enbiudó vna bez e se bolbió a casar y esto es cosa muy pública”.
So there you go everybody…by 30 June 1559, Leonor de Valderrama y Moctezuma had passed away, and it was public knowledge at the time that he was recently remarried (“enbiudó vna bez e se bolbió a casar y esto es cosa muy pública”), as we know to María Manuel de Portugal. Therefore, allow to retract an earlier assertion I had made about their son Diego de Portugal Manuel, he may have indeed been born in 1558 (1583-26=1558), based on the 26 years he said he had in 1584.
Thus Leonor de Valderrama y Moctezuma died before 1559, begging the question: Did Diego Arias de Sotelo and María Manuel de Portugal get married exactly in 1559, or the year before? If so that pushes the potential birth year of OUR Petronila de Moctezuma, to something like 1557-1558, or evan a tad earlier.
Buena suerte a todos en sus investigaciones. ¡Síganle duro! Cuando tengamos más noticias nuevas, nos notificamos, ¿no?
Hasta luego a todos
Steven Francisco Hernández López
Carlos Peredo
Dear Denise, George, Steven et al
It may seem a small thing to have one or two rediscovered new facts about "The Sotelos", but I believe , to us it´s a matter of much joy, because we know that sometimes just to find a hard fact, a precise date, a precise relationship some people spent long hours, days, weeks , and in some cases even YEARS ! - I just remembered Don Guillermo Tovar saying that -in some instances- researching for one single fact, he had to travel many thousands of miles and spend a lot of time and money.
So George, thank you very much for sharing the date and link to the baptism of Ana de Sotelo Valderrama and the date of the wedding of Don Cristóbal de Sotelo.
About the death of Doña Leonor de Valderrama it was already stablished days ago that she should have died around 1557 and that she married in the end of 1550 or the beginning of 1551 because Don Diego Arias Sotelo arrived in Mexico in 1550, this implies that Diego and Leonor didn´t have the chance to have many children, at most they were married for 7 years -unless they had twins -
Days ago I and Denise were talking about this family and the relationship with the "Manuel de Portugal" lineage which is of the REAL ROYALS of Europe and I said it was noticeable that Diego Arias Sotelo married two Royal Dames : Leonor de Valderrama Moctezuma, and then Doña María Manuel.
Talking about Diego´s son -and apparently the "primogenito"- Fernando, I believe it will be realtively esy to prove that HE DIED IN 1625 , I belive that because the book "Familias y Casas de la Vieja Valladolid" written by Fr Gabriel Ibarrola says so and I´m sure that el padre Ibarrola saw the last will of Don Fernando , and he states that "...he lived a long life and in 1625 he wrote his last will and died shortly after that". I´haven´t tried to look for that document yet but I surely will as soon as I have time for there may be very interesting things in it.
Best Regards to all.
Carlos Peredo
Steven
Thank you for do the transcriptions! These documents are a real challenge to read!
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
The doctoral dissertation, Margo Tamez, "Returning Lipan Apache Women's Laws, Lands, & Power In El Calaboz Ranchería, Texas-Mexico Border" cited by John Schmal has two interesting appendices entitled "Resolving Petronila de Moctezuma and Marina Leonor de Moctizuma (sic): Narrative".
The appendices do not add documents in our quest, but provides her views and examines three theories regarding Petronila:
(1) She descends from Leonor de Moctezuma, granddaughter of Tecuichpotzin and Hernando Cortes
(2) She was the daughter of Mariana Leonore de Moctezuma and "Acatlan" (questioning whether "Acatlan" is a name, or better referred to as "Noblewoman of Acatlan").
(3) She was the daughter of Pedro Moctezuma (he was the son of Moctezuma and Maria Miahuaxochitl) and one of his indigenous wives.
She concludes that the second theory is more plausible.
The discussion is quite interesting in examining the role of "high status indigenous women" in the Spanish colonial society.
There is considerably more to the dissertation than this ... it is more than 600 pages.
The dissertation can be down loaded from ProQuest at no charge.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Hi George
I too have wondered where to go from here. I have come to the conclusion, that I will contribute where I best can, by going through records which are comprehensible to me. To that end, I have just last night begun going through marriages from Mexico City from the 1570's on the chance that the elusive Petronila will show up as a padrina, and then I will have located her at a specific place and time, and linked her to a specific social network. I would be happy if someone wanted to go to the same film, find the last image from the 1500s (image 282), and work backwards....the link to the last image of the 1500's is here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-9748-17804-19?cc=1615259&wc=…
On this film, there is a gap from 1589 to 1629, therefore I have no immediate plans to look beyond image 282.
The source of the image is:
"México, Distrito Federal, registros parroquiales y diocesanos, 1514-1970," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-9748-17804-19?cc=1615259&wc=… : accessed 15 Jan 2014), Asunción Sagrario Metropolitano (Centro) > Matrimonios de españoles 1575-1589, 1629-1634, 1629-1634, 1621-1626, 1629-1630, 1629-1646 > image 282 of 1051.
I hope that someone will be interested in the longer documents in colonial Spanish -for example those in PARES or else other documents from Mexico from the 1500's which I dont get much out of. Steven Francisco Hernández López and Carlos Peredo have already made some very interesting finds regarding Diego Arias de Sotelo and his sons Cristobal Valderrama Sotelo and Diego Portugal Manuel. If they keep going, they will surely dig up more information on this lineage... :)
I still hope that someone will contact Don Guillermo's Brother regarding the manuscript - with the sources for his information about Petronila - which he was working on when he passed away.
Regards
Denise
Yesterday Steven Hernandez Lopez (in the Petronila de Moctezuma y Martin Navarro thread) posted a link for a recently published article from John Schmall: http://latinola.com/story.php?story=12449 .
In this work he cites the reference for the matrimonial investigation for Cristoval Sotelo Valderrama and Juana Patino de Heredia that he found in the Diocesan records of Mexico City. The record is at Family Search in "Mexico, Distrito Federal, Catholic Church Records, 1514-1970; Arquidiocesis de Mexico (Centro); Information matrimonial 1588, 1589, 1591, 1592 ... 1679" and begins at image 96, and continues for 5 pages.
The document is dated 1594 and the handwriting is difficult to read, although the images are quite clear.
The document names his parents, Diego Arias Sotelo and Dona Leonor de [illegible], and wife-to-be, Dona Juana Patino de Heredia, and her parents Baltasar de Bargab (probably not correct) and Dona Francisca de Heredia. Baltasar's surname seems to be on two lines, and is unclear to me.
At a minimum, this document places Cristoval Sotelo Valderrama in Mexico City, in the mid-1590s. Both his parents are deceased (as we know from other sources as well). He is "natural desta cibdad [ciudad]," thus we now have a birthplace. I cannot read enough to determine if his age is given; but other estimates of his birthdate (1556) are not inconsistent with a 1594 marriage.
We also know more about his wife: her parents' names are given, even if I cannot read them completely. Perhaps someone can take a look?
I would not expect information about any siblings, unless one was a testigo (I would not expect a sister in the role). Thus this document likely adds nothing about Petronila.
In any event, thanks to John and Steven, we now have another good document, and perhaps we are a step closer to our goal.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Hello everyone:
welcome.. you did not say who the lines are that you are researching or where in Mexico they are from.
Linda in Boulder City, Nv.
On Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:19 PM, "pnpcastillo@centurylink.net" wrote:
Hello everyone:
This is my first post onto the forum. Both my husband and I are looking forward to being a part of the group. I have been researching my husband's family for an exciting,interesting and very challenging 8 years. We are looking forward to reading and connecting with other enthusiasts.
Linda: I'm researching my husband's grandmother's family, the Gomez, Anguiano, Lopez, Robalcava and Soto families from Paso de Sotos (now known as Villa Hidalgo)and Teocaltiche, Jalisco and Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes.
pnp,
Sorry, I don't have your name, only your email address,
We may have ancestors in common, the Lopez and Rubalcava from Villa Hidalgo
and Teocaltiche.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 6:25 PM, wrote:
> Linda: I'm researching my husband's grandmother's family, the Gomez,
> Anguiano, Lopez, Robalcava and Soto families from Paso de Sotos (now known
> as Villa Hidalgo)and Teocaltiche, Jalisco and Aguascalientes,
> Aguascalientes. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
I like, Alicia, believe we could have certain common ancestors. I would like to compare ancestries along with Alicia, it would be nice to see where we branch off. A part of my mother's ancestry can be traced back to Calvillo and Teocaltiche. I descend from people with the surnames of López, Soto, González de Ruvalcaba, etc.
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino
San José, Ca
Daniel: Thanks for responding to my post, as I corresponded to Alicia, my husband, Paul's 2x grandmother was Ma. Timotea Lopez married to Juan Gomez, they lived in Villa Hidalgo. Paul's Soto line comes through his 2x grandmother, Ma. Tranquilina Soto, married to Agustin Anguiano, they also lived in Villa Hidalgo. What I have been able to find is that Ma. Timotea's parents(Antonia Lopez/Christobal Lopez)came from Teocaltiche. I've also traced the family of Ma. Tranquilina to Teocaltiche.
Alicia: Hopefully, I'm responding in the post the right way (?), my husband's name is Paul and my name is Peggy. My husband's 2x grandmother was Ma. Timotea Lopez, married to Juan Gomez. I believe Timotea's parents were Ma. Antonia Lopez and Christobal Lopez. Do any of these names sound familiar to you? As far as I can tell, the Rubalcava family were much earlier. Thanks for responding to my post, Peggy
Peggy, my Lopez and Rubalcava ancestors in Teocalitche and Villa Hidalgo
date back to the 1700's, so your husband's grandmother is too recent for
me. After marriage, they migrated to Jalpa and then Nochistlan.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 6:18 PM, wrote:
> Alicia: Hopefully, I'm responding in the post the right way (?), my
> husband's name is Paul and my name is Peggy. My husband's 2x grandmother
> was Ma. Timotea Lopez, married to Juan Gomez. I believe Timotea's parents
> were Ma. Antonia Lopez and Christobal Lopez. Do any of these names sound
> familiar to you? As far as I can tell, the Rubalcava family were much
> earlier. Thanks for responding to my post, Peggy
Peggy, my Lopez and Rubalcava ancestors in Teocalitche and Villa Hidalgo
date back to the 1700's, so your husband's grandmother is too recent for
me. After marriage, they migrated to Jalpa and then Nochistlan.
Alicia,
San Jose, Ca
On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 6:18 PM, wrote:
> Alicia: Hopefully, I'm responding in the post the right way (?), my
> husband's name is Paul and my name is Peggy. My husband's 2x grandmother
> was Ma. Timotea Lopez, married to Juan Gomez. I believe Timotea's parents
> were Ma. Antonia Lopez and Christobal Lopez. Do any of these names sound
> familiar to you? As far as I can tell, the Rubalcava family were much
> earlier. Thanks for responding to my post, Peggy
Welcome
pnpcastillo@centurylink.net wrote:
Hello everyone:
This is my first post onto the forum. Both my husband and I are
looking forward to being a part of the group. I have been researching
my husband's family for an exciting,interesting and very challenging 8
years. We are looking forward to reading and connecting with other
enthusiasts.
I found a second earlier marriage certificate for my 5X Candido de Aguallo marrying a Anna Gertudis Ballejo on 18 Dec.1753.
Hi Jaimie,
I Also am researching the Aguallo family for my wife (Michelle Martinez Williams) who is the 2nd great grand daughter of Magdaleno Martinez who married Maria Eduvviges de Aguallo. This would make her the 5th great grand daughter of Diego de Aguallo and Francisca Veserra of Nochistlan.
I believe there is a connection for Diego de Aguallo to Diego de Aguallo and Ysabel de Espitia and that they may be his parents.
The connection is in the marriage record for Candido Aguallo to Anna Gertrudis Ballexo (* see listing below). The Padrinos are Macario Aguallo and Maria Monica Duran. The Macario Aguallo listed is Lucio Macario de Aguallo son of Diego de Aguallo and Ysabel de Espitia and may be the uncle to Candido de Aguallo.
I'm not sure about all this but the time period is right that Diego could be a son of Diego de Aguallo and Ysabel de Espitia and there seems to be a family connection.
Let me know what you think.
Thank you,
Johnny Williams
1st Marriage: Matrimonios 1736-1762 image 440
Name: Don Candido Aguallo of Mexticacan
Spouse's Name: Da Anna Getrudis Ballexo of Jalostotitlan
Event Date: 18 Dec 1753
Event Place: Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Father's Name: Dn Diego Aguallo (dec)
Mother's Name: Da Francisca Baserra
Spouse's Father's Name: Lucas Ballejo
Spouse's Mother's Name: Thomaza Herrera
* PP: Macario Aguallo & Ma Monica Duran
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60625-7
GS Film number: 226726
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15185-41838-16?cc=1804458&wc…
Below is what I have on Diego de Aguallo and Ysabel de Espita's family:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Descendants of Diego De Aguallo
First Generation
1. Diego De Aguallo was born before 1679 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Matrimonios 1691-1736 image 107
Name: Diego De Aguallo (no parents listed)
Spouse's Name: Ysabel De Aspitia (no parents listed)
Event Date: 12 Jan 1699
Event Place: Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60625-6
GS Film number: 226725
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15187-51822-39?cc=1804458&wc…
Marriage info skips from Jun 1698 to Jan 1701
Diego married Ysabel De Espitia daughter of Macario de Espitia and Simona de Silva on 12 Jan 1699 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico. Ysabel was christened on 31 May 1681 in El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico. She died before 1733.
need better source for parents
Name: Ysabel Espitia Silva
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 31 May 1681
Christening Place: EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO
Father's Name: Macario De Espitia
Mother's Name: Simona De Silva
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60476-2
GS Film number: 299422
Diego and Ysabel had the following children:
2 M i. Joseph Vital De Aguallo was christened on 17 May 1700 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1688-1718 image 249
Name: Joseph Vital De Aguallo espl.
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 17 May 1700
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Diego De Aguallo
Mother's Name: Isabel De Aspitia
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04274-6
GS Film number: 226647
Reference ID: v 3 p 23
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15280-5898-61?cc=1804458&wc=…
3 F ii. Maria De Aguaio was christened on 16 Jun 1702 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1688-1718 image 296
Name: Maria De Aguaio
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 16 Jun 1702
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Diego De Aguaio
Mother's Name: Isavel De Espiho(Espitio>
Padrinos: Joseph de Xaurg? & Manuela de Espitia
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04274-6
GS Film number: 226647
Reference ID: v 4 p 15
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15280-5805-4?cc=1804458&wc=M…
+ 4 M iii. Lucio Macario de Aguallo was born on 3 May 1708.
+ 5 M iv. Antonio Mergil de Aguayo .
6 F v. Maria Xaviela de Aguaio was christened on 8 Mar 1712 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1688-1718 image 456
Name: Maria Xaviera De Los Dolores De Aguaio
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 13 Mar 1712
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Race: Native American
Father's Name: Diego De Aguaio
Mother's Name: Ysabel De Espilia
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04274-6
GS Film number: 226647
Reference ID: v 4 p 143
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15280-5495-10?cc=1804458&wc=…
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1688-1718 image 458
Name: Maria Xaviera De Los Dolores De Aguaio
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 08 Mar 1712
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Diego De Aguaio
Mother's Name: Ysabel De Espitia
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04274-6
Reference ID: v 4 p 145
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15280-5578-32?cc=1804458&wc=…
Second Generation
4. Lucio Macario de Aguallo (Diego De) was born on 3 May 1708 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico. He was christened on 10 May 1708 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1688-1718 image 379
Name: Lucio Macario De Aguayo of Noch
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 10 May 1708
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Birth Date: 03 May 1708
Father's Name: Diego De Aguayo
Mother's Name: Ysavel De Espitia
Padrinos: Macario de Espitia & Simona de ?Seluno
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04274-6
GS Film number: 226647
Reference ID: v 4 p 82
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15280-5574-16?cc=1804458&wc=…
(1st Marriage)
Name: Machario De Aguallo
Spouse's Name: Thereza De Luna
Event Date: 04 May 1729
Event Place: San Luis,Colotlan,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name: Diego De Aguallo
Mother's Name: Ysabel De Espitia
Spouse's Father's Name: Dgo. De Luna
Spouse's Mother's Name: Thomasa Barela
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60465-1
GS Film number: 443781
(2nd Marriage)
Matrimonios 1736-1762 image 278
Name: Dn. Macario De Aguayo espl. of Nochistlan, widow of Da. Thereza de Luna
Spouse's Name: Maria Monica Duran
Event Date: 22 Dec 1746
Event Place: Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Father's Name:
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: Phelipe Duran
Spouse's Mother's Name: Maria de Cuelar
PP: Dn. Antonio Mergil de Aguayo & Maria Ynes (espl.)
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60625-7
GS Film number: 226726
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15185-42794-49?cc=1804458&wc…
Lucio married (1) Thereza De Luna daughter of Dgo. De Luna and Thomasa Barela on 4 May 1729 in San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico.
Lucio married (2) Maria Monica Duran Cueuas daughter of Phelipe Duran and Maria de Cuebas on 22 Dec 1746 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico. Maria was born in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico. She was christened on 10 May 1724 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Name: Maria Monica Duran Cueuas
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 10 May 1724
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Felipe Duran
Mother's Name: Maria De Cueuas
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: K60071-3
GS Film number: 226648
Lucio and Maria had the following children:
7 M i. Joseph Maria Florentino Aguayo Duran was christened on 4 Jul 1748 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Name: Joseph Maria Florentino Aguayo Duran
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 04 Jul 1748
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Macario De Aguayo
Mother's Name: Maria Monica Duran
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-4
GS Film number: 226649
8 F ii. Jua. Franca. Aguaio Moscoso was christened on 21 Mar 1751 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.
9 F iii. Franca. Sesaria Aguallo Duran was christened on 8 Mar 1753 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Name: Franca. Sesaria Aguallo Duran
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 08 Mar 1753
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Macario Aguallo
Mother's Name: Monica Duran
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-5
GS Film number: 226650
10 M iv. Jph. Leandro Aguayo Duran was christened on 5 Mar 1759 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Name: Jph. Leandro Aguayo Duran
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 05 Mar 1759
Christening Place: Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Macario De Aguayo
Mother's Name: Monica Duran
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-5
GS Film number: 226650
11 F v. Ma. Agustina De Aguayo was christened on 20 Sep 1761 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.
5. Antonio Mergil de Aguayo (Diego De) was born in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Matrimonios 1691-1736 image 404&405
Name: Antto. De Aguayo
Spouse's Name: Ma. Yanes
Event Date: 21 Feb 1733
Event Place: Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Father's Name: Diego de Aguayo
Mother's Name: Ysabel de spitia (dec)
Spouse's Father's Name: Antonio Yanes
Spouse's Mother's Name: Juana de Cardenas
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60625-6
GS Film number: 226725
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15187-52292-43?cc=1804458&wc…
Antonio married Maria Yanes daughter of Antonio Yanes and Juana de Cardenas on 21 Feb 1733 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.
They had the following children:
12 M i. Diego De La Cruz Aguayo Yanes was christened on 6 Jun 1747 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Name: Diego De La Cruz Aguayo Yanes
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 06 Jun 1747
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Antonio De Aguayo
Mother's Name: Maria Yanes
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-4
GS Film number: 226649
+ 13 F ii. Maria Petra De Aguayo .
Third Generation
13. Maria Petra De Aguayo (Antonio Mergil de Aguayo, Diego De).
Maria married Justo Felis De Torres son of Juan De Torres and Petra de Aguirre on 14 Jan 1759 in
Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .
Matrimonios 1736-1762 image 556
Name: Justo Felis De Torres of Los Belascos
Spouse's Name: Maria Petra De Aguayo
Event Date: 14 Jan 1759
Event Place: Nochistlan,Zacatecas,Mexico
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M60625-7
GS Film number: 226726
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15185-41617-99?cc=1804458&wc…
Justo and Maria had the following children:
14 F i. Maria Gregoria De Los Dolores Torres Aguayo was christened on 27 Nov 1759 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .
Name: Maria Gregoria De Los Dolores Torres Aguayo
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 27 Nov 1759
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Justo Felis De Torres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Aguayo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-5
GS Film number: 226650
15 M ii. Andres Florentino Torres was christened on 29 Oct 1761 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .
Name: Andres Florentino Torres
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 29 Oct 1761
Christening Place: Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Justo De Torres
Mother's Name: Ma. Petra
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-5
GS Film number: 226650
16 F iii. Maria Manuela Margarita de Thorres was christened on 19 Jun 1763 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .
Name: Maria Manuela Margarita De Thorres
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 19 Jun 1763
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Agallo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02521-3
GS Film number: 226651
17 M iv. Felisiano Cornelio De Thorres was christened on 22 Sep 1765 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .
Name: Felisiano Cornelio De Thorres
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 22 Sep 1765
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Aguayo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02521-3
GS Film number: 226651
18 M v. Joseph Ysidoro de Thorres was christened on 11 Dec 1767 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .
Name: Joseph Ysidoro De Thorres
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 11 Dec 1767
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Aguaia
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02521-3
GS Film number: 226651
19 F vi. Juana Josepha Chrestina De Thorres was christened on 1 Aug 1769 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .
Name: Juana Josepha Chrestina De Thorres
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 01 Aug 1769
Christening Place: Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Aguallo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02521-3
GS Film number: 226651
20 F vii. Maria Micaela Thorres Aguaio was christened on 8 Oct 1770 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .
Name: Maria Micaela Thorres Aguaio
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 08 Oct 1770
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Aguaio
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-7
GS Film number: 226652
21 M viii. Joseph De Los Reies Thorres Aguaio was christened on 14 Jan 1772 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .
Name: Joseph De Los Reies Thorres Aguaio
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 14 Jan 1772
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN, ZACATECAS, MEXICO
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Aguaio
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-7
GS Film number: 226652
22 F ix. Maria Estanislao Thorres Aguallo was christened on 22 Nov 1773 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .
Name: Maria Estanislao Thorres Aguallo
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 22 Nov 1773
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Maria Petra De Aguallo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-7
GS Film number: 226652
23 F x. Maria Paulina Thorres Aguallo was christened on 11 Jun 1775 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .
Name: Maria Paulina Thorres Aguallo
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 11 Jun 1775
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Petra De Aguallo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-7
GS Film number: 226652
24 M xi. Jose Luis Thorres Aguallo was christened on 30 Aug 1778 in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, Mexico .
Name: Jose Luis Thorres Aguallo
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 30 Aug 1778
Christening Place: NOCHISTLAN,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Birth Date: Aug 1778
Father's Name: Justo De Thorres
Mother's Name: Petra De Aguallo
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C60071-8
GS Film number: 226653
Hola primos,
LOS GONZÁLEZ DE HERMOSILLO
Los antecedentes históricos de la familia González-Hermosillo se remontan a finales del Siglo XVI en la Nueva Galicia, pues vivieron y tuvieron propiedades y mercedes de tierras en Lagos, San Juan de los Lagos y Teocaltiche. Sin embargo, los González Díaz de León propietarios de Preciado, Cañaditas y Presa Nueva, entre otros ranchos y haciendas en Pinos Zacatecas y Ojuelos, Jalisco, tienen un origen histórico muy bien definido genealógicamente.
Descienden directamente de don Diego Ildefonso González de Hermosillo y Alderete, que nació en Teocaltiche hacia 1680. Él estudió unos cuantos años en el seminario Conciliar de Guadalajara sin llegar a tomar los hábitos, no obstante adquirió una esmerada educación, superior al común de la población. Vivió su juventud y se casó con doña Lorenza Manuela de Cabrera en el Real de Asientos a principios de Siglo XVIII. Los Cabrera venían de pueblo de Cuquío replicando lo que hicieron innumerables familias alteñas que buscaban la prosperidad económica generada por el auge minero de aquel Real. Diego pasó a vivir con su familia a la hacienda de Tecuán, perteneciente al Mayorazgo de Ciénega de Mata, formando parte de los criollos ilustrados que sabiendo leer, escribir y contar y constituyeron el aparato administrativo y de las mayordomías.
Por varias generaciones estuvieron allí y emparentaron con los Carrillo, los Díaz de León y los Dávila que tenían "criaderos" y rentaban pastos. Hay abundante información documental sobre el particular. Pasaron luego a vivir a la Hacienda de Los Ojuelos como "dependientes" y allí emparentaron con los Paz de Burciaga, familia que provenía del lejano Real de Mazapil y a la sazón vivía en el real de Pinos. El primer Vicente González Hermosillo, bisnieto de Diego Ildefonso no fue Administrador pero estuvo al servicio de los Rincón Gallardo y le ocurrió lo que a los jefes de muchas familias que se movían de una hacienda a otra y cifraban su prosperidad en los cargos, empleos y prebendas de la estructura administrativa del Mayorazgo como los buenos salarios, los derechos a sembrar a medias con la hacienda o pastar ganados propios y beneficiar aguas, leñas y montes. Posteriormente se les encuentra en las hacienda de Buenavista y Encinillas, pues allí nacieron varios de sus hijos.
La tradición oral que recibimos decía que uno de los Vicentes (hubo tres en sucesión y al último de ellos, Avelina González Díaz de León le decía "mi Tito", y de quien existe una buena fotografía en Daguerrotipo), se había hecho cargo de una hacienda durante la guerra de independencia y que por sus servicios y lealtades, cuando el Mayorazgo comenzó "las ventas", hacia 1839, le ofrecieron la adquisición de los abruptos terrenos de "Preciado", colindando con la hacienda de El Carro y El Lobo, al pie de la Sierra del Astillero, colindando también con La Montesa y mirando al Llano de Tecuán. Esto ocurrió una década antes de que la familia Díaz de León, compuesta también por empleados y renteros de pastos de las haciendas de los Rincón Gallardo, comenzaran a comprar los terrenos en La Montesa.
Lo que está muy bien documentado en archivos de familia (que incluyen planos y testamentos originales), es que hacia 1848 los González ya eran propietarios y cuya extensión de terrenos contenían varias pequeñas estancias agrícolas y ganaderas, así como un tramo de del antiguo camino real de tierra-adentro, entre los terrenos de Cañaditas y el cerro de Mostrador. De hecho, se recordaba que Preciado fue un Mesón y "parada de bueyes" del antiquísimo camino "de las carretas grandes", conocido más recientemente como "La Ruta de la Plata". El apellido González-Hermosillo se recortó a partir de primer tercio del Siglo XIX, quedando únicamente, González.
Gracias, primo, nos emociana mucho leer la historia de nuestros abuelos.
Un fuerte abrazo,
Manny Diez Hermosillo
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/jrefugioghermosillo
Kevin Kern - Through the Veil
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: pipo957@hotmail.com
> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 20:01:24 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Preciado
>
> LOS GONZÁLEZ DE HERMOSILLO
>
> Los antecedentes históricos de la familia González-Hermosillo se remontan a finales del Siglo XVI en la Nueva Galicia, pues vivieron y tuvieron propiedades y mercedes de tierras en Lagos, San Juan de los Lagos y Teocaltiche. Sin embargo, los González Díaz de León propietarios de Preciado, Cañaditas y Presa Nueva, entre otros ranchos y haciendas en Pinos Zacatecas y Ojuelos, Jalisco, tienen un origen histórico muy bien definido genealógicamente.
>
> Descienden directamente de don Diego Ildefonso González de Hermosillo y Alderete, que nació en Teocaltiche hacia 1680. Él estudió unos cuantos años en el seminario Conciliar de Guadalajara sin llegar a tomar los hábitos, no obstante adquirió una esmerada educación, superior al común de la población. Vivió su juventud y se casó con doña Lorenza Manuela de Cabrera en el Real de Asientos a principios de Siglo XVIII. Los Cabrera venían de pueblo de Cuquío replicando lo que hicieron innumerables familias alteñas que buscaban la prosperidad económica generada por el auge minero de aquel Real. Diego pasó a vivir con su familia a la hacienda de Tecuán, perteneciente al Mayorazgo de Ciénega de Mata, formando parte de los criollos ilustrados que sabiendo leer, escribir y contar y constituyeron el aparato administrativo y de las mayordomías.
>
> Por varias generaciones estuvieron allí y emparentaron con los Carrillo, los Díaz de León y los Dávila que tenían "criaderos" y rentaban pastos. Hay abundante información documental sobre el particular. Pasaron luego a vivir a la Hacienda de Los Ojuelos como "dependientes" y allí emparentaron con los Paz de Burciaga, familia que provenía del lejano Real de Mazapil y a la sazón vivía en el real de Pinos. El primer Vicente González Hermosillo, bisnieto de Diego Ildefonso no fue Administrador pero estuvo al servicio de los Rincón Gallardo y le ocurrió lo que a los jefes de muchas familias que se movían de una hacienda a otra y cifraban su prosperidad en los cargos, empleos y prebendas de la estructura administrativa del Mayorazgo como los buenos salarios, los derechos a sembrar a medias con la hacienda o pastar ganados propios y beneficiar aguas, leñas y montes. Posteriormente se les encuentra en las hacienda de Buenavista y Encinillas, pues allí nacieron varios
> de sus hijos.
>
> La tradición oral que recibimos decía que uno de los Vicentes (hubo tres en sucesión y al último de ellos, Avelina González Díaz de León le decía "mi Tito", y de quien existe una buena fotografía en Daguerrotipo), se había hecho cargo de una hacienda durante la guerra de independencia y que por sus servicios y lealtades, cuando el Mayorazgo comenzó "las ventas", hacia 1839, le ofrecieron la adquisición de los abruptos terrenos de "Preciado", colindando con la hacienda de El Carro y El Lobo, al pie de la Sierra del Astillero, colindando también con La Montesa y mirando al Llano de Tecuán. Esto ocurrió una década antes de que la familia Díaz de León, compuesta también por empleados y renteros de pastos de las haciendas de los Rincón Gallardo, comenzaran a comprar los terrenos en La Montesa.
>
> Lo que está muy bien documentado en archivos de familia (que incluyen planos y testamentos originales), es que hacia 1848 los González ya eran propietarios y cuya extensión de terrenos contenían varias pequeñas estancias agrícolas y ganaderas, así como un tramo de del antiguo camino real de tierra-adentro, entre los terrenos de Cañaditas y el cerro de Mostrador. De hecho, se recordaba que Preciado fue un Mesón y "parada de bueyes" del antiquísimo camino "de las carretas grandes", conocido más recientemente como "La Ruta de la Plata". El apellido González-Hermosillo se recortó a partir de primer tercio del Siglo XIX, quedando únicamente, González.
>
Hello everyone,
Hi Norberto
I would like to take a look at the info on the marriage to see if i can help in any way. It would be good if you posted the names and date of the marriage, the full citation, and the link to the image.
Regards
Denise
Fastrup
Denise,
Thank you so much. When I get home from work, I'll work on posting this info.
I'll be in touch soon and thanks again,
Norberto Menchaca Morales III
Denise,
I found the link on familysearch.org and it is: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30473-35?cc=1502404&…, they were married on 01 November 1675. I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Norberto Menchaca Morales III
Hi Norberto
I found a daughter Maria de la Rosa who married Joseph Martin in 1710, which you probably already have, but below is the info just in case. If you have not already done so, you might want to see the info matrimonial for her and her husband, because sometimes uncles or other relatives are there as testigos. Info matrimoniales in that church go back to 1699.
link to the image of the marriage:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18622-36120-98?cc=1874591&wc…
film no 641015 image 164
Citation:
"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18622-36120-98?cc=1874591&wc… : accessed 10 Jan 2014), Ciénega de Mata > Inmaculada Concepción > Matrimonios 1667-1757 > image 164 of 456.
from the Family Search index:
Name: Joseph Martin
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Maria De La Rosa Y Albarado
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 02 Jun 1710
Event Place: Cienega De Mata,Ojuelos,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name: Lorenso Martin
Mother's Name: Anna Ruis De Los Reies
Spouse's Father's Name: Fransisco De Alvarado
Spouse's Mother's Name: Fransisca Ruis De Esparsa
Sorry I could not be of more help. I checked the Padron for Aguascalientes, but the Francisca I found there would have been way too old to be the one you are looking for, but I recommend you take a look in case I missed something....
Hopefully you can find the info matr and come one step further!
Regards
Denise
ps If you do not already have the padron it's in NR as a ressource, just put padron 1648 in the search field, and it's the 4th hit. Other hits comes up too which you might find useful
Denise,
Thanks for your help. I really appreciate any ideas or clues anyone can give me. John Schmal and Inhave gone back and forth abt this couple for a long time. This weekend I plan on going through the informacional matrimonios on familysearch.org. The book that contains 1675 is all chopped up as far as chronological order goes. Going page by page just might find me the record.
Thanks again and I'll keep everyone posted. By the way, I do have that marriage record you posted. Their daughter in that recordnis a great grandmother. That record is what led me to Francisco and Francisca many years ago (early 2000s).
Norberto Menchaca Morales III
You are welcome, and good luck!! Going page by page finally one fantastic day resulted in finding the info matrimonial i needed when i was at a brick wall.
Regards
Denise
hello Felix,
I worked on the family tree of a first cousin of yours named Graciela. Her mother is a daughter of Nicolas De la Torre and Maria de la Luz Martin.
Hello miggygutierrez
The previous post is about graciela's ancestors. Graciela is married to your nephew Felipe
Some ofThe same lines that graciela is related to me she is related to you and of course her husband Felipe. She is actually related to me more often and I think maybe one generation closer.
The parentage of the Gabadi sisters continues to be a subject of much discussion.
Hello Scott,
I don't doubt that the document that provides the ancestry of Petronila de
Moctezuma was found by don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa but as I have said
before we want to know what kind of document it is and when the book will
be published if they still plan to publish it and so on. That really is the
only document that we need at this moment. The others do not help in
proving the link between Petronila and Moctezuma II.
ITEM (2) The link that you provided
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=4&tx…
that the session has expired when clicked on. Apart from that the
link doesn't show on the Nuestros Ranchos site. Those type of links don't
show up.
Therefore, the advanced search has to be done at
http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=100 but
you don't have to select anything before pasting MP-ESCUDOS,211 into
the Signatura:
field. All that has to be done after that is to click search then click on
the result from that search.
The same can be done without spaces with PATRONATO,245,R.5 and
MP-ESCUDOS,212
IITEM (4) I provided a link to the dispensa and the pertinent info in a
different post. I'll post it again since this email started a different
thread.
At the bottom left of image 319 of the dispensa that starts on 316 at
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18377-19894-49?cc=1874591&wc…
En el pueblo de Nochistlan en dicho dia mes y año Ante su
Merced dicho señor Vicario pareció Matheo Gonzalez de
Robalacava español vecino de este dicho pueblo y declaro
que Bartolome Rodriguez Bajo viudo de Teresa Ponce y Doña
Tomasa Rosa de Ulloa hija legitima de Pedro de Ulloa
Marquez que al presente tratando contraer matrimonio
son parientes en cuarto grado de afinidad
por cópula licita porque la dicha Teresa Ponce fue
hija de Nicolas Ponce nieta de Doña Juana de Siordia
bisnieta de María Gabay y Teresa nieta de Martín
Navarro y de Doña Petronila de Montezuma.........
Then at the top right of image 319
Martín Navarro y Doña Petronila de Montezuma de los
cuales tambien esta en el mismo cuarto grado la
dicha Doña Tomasa Roza de Ulloa porque es hija de Pedro
de Ulloa Marquez nieta de María Ruiz de Esparza bisnieta
de Francisca Gabai y tercera nieta de los dichos
Martin Navarro y Doña Petronila Montesuma ?
coz y padres lexitimos de las dichas María Gabay y Fran
cisca Gabay de quienes se procrearon estas dos descen
dentias y que esto lo save este declarante con total serti
dumbre como deudo que es de todos los dichos y que los
conocio ocular mente a todos menos a los dichos Mar
tin Navarro y Doña Petonila de Montezuma = que
todo lo declara para descargo de su conciencia y que
para mayor seguridad lo jura por Dios nuestro
Señor y una señal de cruz sinque a ello le muestra
otra cosa que a ? a su alma y a la verdad y
que lo que lleva declarado lo es so cargo del juramento
que echo tiene….....dijo ser de edad de zetenta y ocho años
y lo firmo con su mersed dho señor bicario doi fe
entre Renglones = en que siendole leido este su dho cer
tifico =
D Luis Calvillo Matheo gon de
Jpseph gonz
Rrobalcaba
Rovalacava
Saludos,
Armando
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Scott Stockwell wrote:
> The parentage of the Gabadi sisters continues to be a subject of much
> discussion. I do not have any answers, but I do have much of the
> documentation that is discussed on the Research List.
>
> ITEM (1) of Armando's post: I have no knowledge of this document.
>
> ITEM (2) of Armando's post: This document, alleged to be from 1574, can be
> found at PARES <
> http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=4&tx…;.
> If you want to find it the long way, go to PARES .
> Select "Busqueda Avanzada" on the button bar. Go down to FILTRO POR ARCHIVO
> and select "Archivo General de Indias" from the pull-down menu. A second
> pull-down menu will appear beneath the first. Select "Mapas y Planos" from
> the second pull-down menu. Now go to the section just below, FILTRO POR
> SIGNATURA, and enter "MP-ESCUDOS,211" in the text field. If that doesn't
> work, click on the Seleccionar button. Once you get to the next page, go to
> the bottom of the list and click on the tiny red down-arrow to scroll the
> list. Click the "+" button next to MP-ESCUDOS. A list of document numbers
> will appear below MP-ESCUDOS. Use the red arrow again to scroll down until
> you see 211 and click on
> 211. That will take you back to the search page. Click on the Buscar
> button at the bottom of the page. That will bring up a page with the
> document listed. You can get document information by clicking on the title.
> You can view the document by clicking on the little camera icon in the DIG.
> column. MP-ESCUDOS,212 is another genealogy, principally for Isabel
> Moctezuma. MP-ESCUDO,197 is a general chart dated 1817 depicting
> Moctezuma's descendants. Mariana is listed, but none of her descendants are
> listed. MP-ESCUDO,211 would be a natural continuation of this chart.
>
> ITEM (3) of Armando's post: Mariana Moctezuma, child of Moctezuma II and
> Acatlan, was married to Cristobal Valderrama. Mariana and Cristobal had one
> child, Leonor. Leonor married Diego Arias Sotelo. Diego was exiled to what
> is now Algeria for his role in the Avila-Cortes Conspiracy (his brother was
> executed). According the "Moctezuma's Children" by Donald E. Chipman
> (2005), Leonor Valderrama and Diego Arias Sotelo had 3 children: Fernando
> (the only one to have children), Ana (a nun), and Cristobal. If Petronila
> Moctezuma is a descendant of Moctezuma II and Acatlan, Her parents would
> have to be Leonor Valderrama Moctezuma and Diego Arias Sotelo. According to
> Chipman, the children of Leonor were constantly in court trying to win
> control of their grandmother's encomiendo. I suppose that there are reasons
> that Petronila might not have been mentioned in these proceedings (Leonor
> willed her estate to her 3 children equally), but it seems odd. The
> children also
> fought among themselves for control of the encomiendo. Ana, a nun, gave
> control of her third to Fernando. Cristobal's widow fought for his third,
> plus half of Ana's. Having gotten full control of the encomiendo,
> Fernando's children sold it, so that it passed out of the family completely.
>
> ITEM (4) of Armando's post: The dispensation referred to is widely
> available in the ether and can be found at the FamilySearch.org site (Film
> Number 168605 - FamilySearch.org: Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records,
> 1590-1995, Guadalajara, Diócesis de Guadalajara, Matrimonios 1700-1705,
> Image 316 of 625). One other document, the 1677 will of Juan Siordia,
> daughter of Maria Gabadi and Pedro Fernandez de Vaulus, gives Maria's name
> as Maria Gabai Moctezuma. The will is available from the Digital Archives
> of Aguascalientes . Click the
> Login button. Enter sigue.publica as the User Name and publica as the
> Password. Click the Login button. In the index that comes up, right-click
> (two-finger-click on Mac) on the entry SSG-ARCHIVO-HISTORICO - ACERVOS
> COLONIALES SIGLOS XVII A XIX to get a pop-up menu. Select New Query from
> the menu. In the page that comes up next, enter JUANA DE SIORDIA in the
> text field for
> CONTRATANTES. Click the Submit button and you will be taken to the first
> page of the will.
>
> To me, the question of Petronila's ancestry is still up in the air. I'm
> with the camp that says that unless I have hard documentation on the
> subject, I remain skeptical.
>
> Scott Stockwell
Hello,
I have a copy of the book
I will not sell it but will provide info from it.
R.A. Ricci
I don't know if they mention other family members since the document is long and hard to read, but he was from an important family since his father was an "oidor" or judge.
On image 475 it says that when Juan González Cid arrived to the kingdom very poor since "coming to take over his post he had a storm in the sea by the Campeche coast and lost all the goods he had, escaping just with his life and his family". It seems that because of that he has not been able to get two of his daughters married (I guess he can not pay the corresponding dowries).
Victoriano Navarro
El Bachiller Don Francisco Sid, presbitero domiciliario de este obispado, como mas me convenga, digo que para ocurrir ante su Majestad y _ su Real Consejo de Indias me es necesario hacer informacion de como soy hijo legitimo del señor _ _ Don Juan Gonçales Sid, oidor mas antiguo de esta Real Audiencia y de la Señora Doña Ana de Esponosa su legitima mujer....
He is requesting a "canongía en una de las iglesias catedrales de esta Nueva España", so he is applying for a post in a Cathedral.
Saludos,
Victoriano Navarro
does the doucment mention any other family members besides his parents? some part of the whole doucment(it starts on page 471 and ends on the left side of page 495). one confusing part when someone (not sure who) was refered to as poor, which is confusing since i thought only those from wealthy family could become clergy men back then
Comparto la la siguiente investigación que realicé.
Hola Diego,
Disculpa la tardanza (7 meses!!!!) de esta respuesta. Tal vez ya has
encontrado los datos que buscabas sobre “Aro y Ávila”. Hasta hora e
podido ponerme masa o memos al corriente de todos los “posts” de Nuestros
Ranchos.
Me da gusto saber que tenemos los mismos ancestros. Tengo la misma
información que diste empezando con Thomas de Haro y María Ávila, con solo
unos datos pequeños de diferencia y alguna información adicional:
1- Antonio Julián Haro se caso con Rita Margarita Serrano en
Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román el 10 de enero de 1787.
2- Según mis datos, la madre de Rita Margarita Serrano es María
Candelaria Ramírez no Castillo.
3- Además de María Lucia Haro, Antonio Julián Haro y Rita Margarita
Serrano tuvieron los siguientes hijos: María de la Cruz, María Rita, María
Eusebia de Jesús, Juana Vitor Modesta, Juan Joseph de la Trinidad, y José
Cirildo de Jesús.
4- Según mis datos, los abuelos de José María Serrano Hermosillo son
(línea paterna) Antonio Serrano y María Rita Gómez Ávila no María González.
Abuelos maternos son José Alejo Morcillo no García y María Concepción
García.
5- Tengo más información sobre la línea de Paula Rosalía Hermosillo
(Morcillo) García.
Como ya a pasado tanto tiempo, asumo que ya tienes estos datos. Si no es
así, déjame saber y yo te doy los datos con más detalle. Si encuentras
algun dato adicional, te pido que me lo compartas.
Gracias!
Alicia
Chicago, IL
--Alicia Castaneda-Rodriguez
Soy decendiente de Tomas Aro y Maria Avila. por la hija
1 Maria Eugenia de Aro casada con Antonio Castaneda.
2 Julio de Jesus Castaneda casado con Maria Refugio Gonzalez.
3 Maria Romula de la Trinidad casada con Pedro Jose Artega.
4 Sus hijos Todocio Arteaga (Juana Saldana) y Felix Arteaga (Dolores Castaneda) son mis bisabuelos y Estefana Arteaga (Jose Cruz Perez) y Pablo Arteaga (Maria Buenaventura )son mis tatarabuelos.
Busco ancetros originarios de LOS CERRITOS ATOLINGA ZACATECAS. DE apehidos Arteaga, Perez, Castaneda, Saldana.
Has something happened with the mailing list? I have not received one in several days, but new postings are being made on the website.
George Fulton
Pleasanton
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
I also have not received mail from nuestros ranchos in quite a while. Don't know what's happening.
The email distribution system is in need of being brought up to the most
current update. That takes a lot of time and unless we as a group take up a
"Serious" collection to find a paid programmer we'll just, for the time
being, need to go to the website and read the latest emails from there. One
day in the near future Arturo our professional, but yet volunteer,
programmer intends to bring the website up to the most current update, but
until then we'll need to visit the website for the most current information.
Thank you to everyone for being patient. I'm sure we all appreciate Arturo's
efforts in single handedly (via the new technology) bring the membership
from 100 members when we were at Yahoo to a number that is approaching 900
now.
Thank you Alicia for sending this message and giving me the opportunity to
update everyone on our situation
I hope the following gives the gist of the above:
El sistema de distribución de correo electrónico está en la necesidad de ser
educado para la actualización más reciente. Para eso se necesita una gran
cantidad de tiempo y, a menos que como grupo vamos hacer una colecta para
encontrar un programador pagado sólo tendremos que, por el momento, ir a la
página web y leer los últimos correos electrónicos desde allí. Un día en el
futuro cercano Arturo nuestro profesional, pero todavía voluntario,
programador tiene la intención de llevar la página web hasta la
actualización más reciente, pero hasta entonces tendrá que visitar el sitio
web para la información más actualizada.
Gracias a todos por su paciencia. Estoy seguro de que todos apreciamos los
esfuerzos de Arturo en ayuda (a través de la nueva tecnología) traen la
membresía de 100 miembros, cuando estábamos en Yahoo en un número que se
acerca a 900 ahora.
Gracias Alicia para enviar este mensaje y por darme la oportunidad de
actualizar a todos en nuestra situación
Joseph
=========================
Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of alliecar@pacbell.net
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:28 PM
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ranchos website
>
> Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
> I also have not received mail from nuestros ranchos in quite a while.
Don't know what's
> happening.
Joseph,
I have offered in the past to help a few hours a week with the website. I didn't hear back after your email saying you would forward my offer to Armando. I am still willing to help, if you have something I could do.
Leni Rivera
> From: makas@nc.rr.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 18:27:46 -0500
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thank You: Website - Update: RE: Ranchos website
>
> The email distribution system is in need of being brought up to the most
> current update. That takes a lot of time and unless we as a group take up a
> "Serious" collection to find a paid programmer we'll just, for the time
> being, need to go to the website and read the latest emails from there. One
> day in the near future Arturo our professional, but yet volunteer,
> programmer intends to bring the website up to the most current update, but
> until then we'll need to visit the website for the most current information.
>
> Thank you to everyone for being patient. I'm sure we all appreciate Arturo's
> efforts in single handedly (via the new technology) bring the membership
> from 100 members when we were at Yahoo to a number that is approaching 900
> now.
>
> Thank you Alicia for sending this message and giving me the opportunity to
> update everyone on our situation
>
> I hope the following gives the gist of the above:
>
> El sistema de distribución de correo electrónico está en la necesidad de ser
> educado para la actualización más reciente. Para eso se necesita una gran
> cantidad de tiempo y, a menos que como grupo vamos hacer una colecta para
> encontrar un programador pagado sólo tendremos que, por el momento, ir a la
> página web y leer los últimos correos electrónicos desde allí. Un día en el
> futuro cercano Arturo nuestro profesional, pero todavía voluntario,
> programador tiene la intención de llevar la página web hasta la
> actualización más reciente, pero hasta entonces tendrá que visitar el sitio
> web para la información más actualizada.
>
> Gracias a todos por su paciencia. Estoy seguro de que todos apreciamos los
> esfuerzos de Arturo en ayuda (a través de la nueva tecnología) traen la
> membresía de 100 miembros, cuando estábamos en Yahoo en un número que se
> acerca a 900 ahora.
>
> Gracias Alicia para enviar este mensaje y por darme la oportunidad de
> actualizar a todos en nuestra situación
>
> Joseph
>
> =========================
>
> Joseph Puentes
> Clean@h2opodcast.com
> http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> > bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of alliecar@pacbell.net
> > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:28 PM
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ranchos website
> >
> > Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
> > I also have not received mail from nuestros ranchos in quite a while.
> Don't know what's
> > happening.
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
There were many Ruy Diaz de Mendozas.
most genealogist think that they have kept track of the fathers and sons and have not confused them.
I forgot to add that Mariana married as her first husband, her maternal uncle (Cristobal Onate) and
A son of hers (Diego Temino de Banuelos (2))from her second husband (Baltazar Temino de Banuelos Alcocer), married his cousin
This Diego (2)and his cousin catalina de Onate who were the parents of
diego (3) Baltazar(2) and Ana Maria Banuelos, the wife of Francisco Figueroa de Carvajal
I have found the information on Guiomar Cervellon the wife of ruy diaz de mendoza
Guiomar Cervellon is the daughter of Berengarus Arnoldus (iv) Galcernadus de Castro y Pinos Senor de Lacuna and Estefania de Centelles
Aka Berenguer Arnaldo (IV) Cervellon, XX Senor de Lacuna
his will, dated 31/Aug1516, names her as his daughter and Ruy (Rodrigo) de Mendoza as his son in law
the Cervellon descend from Conde Kerhart de Astoberg, Principe de Alemania and Clotide de Bavaria from the 7th century
He estado investigando durante aproximadamente 2 años y he chocado contra una pared.
Hello Anita,
I'm also fairly new at this too; but we learn by doing and helping. I looked at the marriage and it does say that Blas Esteban is Mestizo (right after his name--"mest"). To me it also looks like the mother's name may be Becerra--although it only has one R in the document. I tried with all of the combinations I could figure and unfortunately I had no luck either. Remember that the Franco family also went by Franco de Paredes and sometimes Paredes.
Good luck,
Deedra Corona
Anita Rodriguez
Deedra, thanks for responding to my post. I appreciate any help I can get.
I've been searching the death records and found a person that could be Blas Esteban's wife. I'm including the link
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18571-383-74?cc=1874591&wc=M…
It's on the top left side of the page. I have a hard time reading these records. What do you think? Thanks
Anita
Anita Rodriguez
Just to make a correction on my last post. Michaela Becerra was not Blas Esteban Franco's wife but his mother (wife of Pedro Franco.)
In some of my Franco lines from Tepatitlan, they used Perez de paredes, Perez-Franco, Franco-Perez, Franco de paredes one line sometimes used Casillas as that was an illegitimate line
These names were used interchangeably and could change from one generation to the next
Very important concepts to know when searching catholic parish records,from the Facebook page Evidence Explained:
Consanguinity and Affinity:
Thank you for posting this information. Consanguinity, and the dispensations for it, have always been confusing to me. However, after reading the Canon Law on consanguinity and affinity, I can only quote Harry Belafonte: "It was clear as mud, but it covered the ground, and the confusion make the world go 'round".
I remain as confused as I ever was.
Linda
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 13:06:08 -0800 (PST)
> From: ray777syl@verizon.net
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] consanguinity & affinity
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Very important concepts to know when searching catholic parish records,from the Facebook page Evidence Explained:
> Consanguinity and Affinity:
>
> We see the words often in religious records of the past and occasionally in civil ones. The concept of consanguinity--a blood relationship--is simple enough; but modern thinking often leads us astray where affinity is concerned. In civil records especially, we see references to "my brother" and other stated kinships that are hard to support by documentary evidence.
>
> A deeper look at the historical meaning of the term can help our analyses. We borrow here from the online CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01178a.htm).
>
> "Affinity (in Canon Law)
> "A relationship arising from the carnal intercourse of a man and a woman, sufficient for the generation of children, whereby the man becomes related to the woman's blood-relatives and the woman to the man's. I... Today affinity does not beget affinity. Therefore the relatives of the man do not become relatives of the woman's relatives, neither do those of the woman become relatives of the man's relatives. ...
>
> "The motive for the impediment of affinity is akin to, though not as strong as, that of consanguinity; there arises ... a nearness and natural intimacy with the blood-relatives of the other side. The degrees of affinity are determined by the same rule as the degree of blood-relationship."
>
> The essay offers considerably more insight. It's well worth reading.
> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01178a.htm
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
I've come across a notation under the Padres title that I don't know what it means. It looks like w enclosed in a circle. Does anyone know what this means? Thanks
Juanita Henniger
Since the notation is below each given name and surname, it seems to me it is "id.", which is an abbreviation of the Latin "idem" (identical), which as you guessed was used is like the " " when we mean "same as previous entry".
Victoriano Navarro
Victoriano,
It is what I thought, but I appreciate the clarification.
Juanita Henniger
I'm sorry. I seems I provided the wrong link. Here is the link I need help with. The symbol is used under the titles Padres and Padrinos. I've never seen it before in my research and I wondered if it was sort like the " " when we mean "same as previous entry". Thank you for taking the time to look at this.
Juanita
Juanita,
No link was provided.
Alicia
________________________________
From: "juanitahenniger@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2012 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Notations in Confirmation
I'm sorry. I seems I provided the wrong link. Here is the link I need help with. The symbol is used under the titles Padres and Padrinos. I've never seen it before in my research and I wondered if it was sort like the " " when we mean "same as previous entry". Thank you for taking the time to look at this.
Juanita
Sorry, some days I'm such an airhead.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18192-47100-18?cc=1860864&wc…
Juanita \
Robert,
Thank you for clarifying the records. I assumed one was the dispensa that
had been mentioned on Nuestros Ranchos as well as another being the chart
from PARES
Regards,
Armando
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enviado por gpf13 el Vie, 2014-01-03 14:47.
Some comments on these documents ...
(1) This is apparently the reference in the Jaime Holcomb family group
sheet for Lope Ruiz de Esparza: "Documentos proporcionados por el
Licenciado Luis Lopez Martinez: Prueba de nobleza y limpieza de sangre
hecha por el esposa en Aguascalientes con su ascendcia en Espana varias
generacions, Historia familiar y muy escueta genealogia de la esposa - dice
que la madre de la esposa fue nieta del ultimo Emperador Azteca,
Moctezuma." My attempts to find this have not been successful.
(2) This is apparently well documented. For example, see, AGI, Patronato,
245, R.5." This is a chart made in about 1574 that shows the descent of
Fernando de Sotelo Moctezuma and [if I read it correctly} "otros hijos de
Diego Arias Sotelo," but does not name them. There are other genealogical
charts in the AGI, as well. These call all be downloaded from PARES. I
posted the details on how to search PARES a couple of years ago here at NR,
(3) Her mother is Acatlan, described as a "favored secondary wife" of
Moctezuma (she is named in the very early genealogical charts in the AGI at
PARES). I have a secondary source that names her father as "Cihuatoatl
Tlilpotocantzin." "Cihuatoatl" is likely a title. I have no information on
him. More information may be available in Amada Lopez de Menezes, "Notas y
documentos acera la descendencia de Moteczuma II," HID 1955, 381-410. I
believe this journal is actually "Hidalguia," but I am unable to find a
copy. Amada Lopez de Menezes has numerous publications on Moctezuma and his
family, as well as other historical topics.
(4) This document is a dispensa for Bartolomeu Rodriguez Bajo which has
been discussed previously in this forum (and the link provided ...
ultimately thanks to Claudia's work in the Guadalajara diocesan records ...
see her website for more information). This document is the earliest
document that I've seen that actually names Petronila de Moctezuma and
Martin Navarro. Her ancestry is not provided there, as it is not relevant
for the dispensation.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Sorry, I meant thank you George.
On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Armando wrote:
>
> Robert,
>
> Thank you for clarifying the records. I assumed one was the dispensa that
> had been mentioned on Nuestros Ranchos as well as another being the chart
> from PARES
>
> Regards,
> Armando
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Enviado por gpf13 el Vie, 2014-01-03 14:47.
>
> Some comments on these documents ...
>
> (1) This is apparently the reference in the Jaime Holcomb family group
> sheet for Lope Ruiz de Esparza: "Documentos proporcionados por el
> Licenciado Luis Lopez Martinez: Prueba de nobleza y limpieza de sangre
> hecha por el esposa en Aguascalientes con su ascendcia en Espana varias
> generacions, Historia familiar y muy escueta genealogia de la esposa - dice
> que la madre de la esposa fue nieta del ultimo Emperador Azteca,
> Moctezuma." My attempts to find this have not been successful.
>
> (2) This is apparently well documented. For example, see, AGI, Patronato,
> 245, R.5." This is a chart made in about 1574 that shows the descent of
> Fernando de Sotelo Moctezuma and [if I read it correctly} "otros hijos de
> Diego Arias Sotelo," but does not name them. There are other genealogical
> charts in the AGI, as well. These call all be downloaded from PARES. I
> posted the details on how to search PARES a couple of years ago here at NR,
>
> (3) Her mother is Acatlan, described as a "favored secondary wife" of
> Moctezuma (she is named in the very early genealogical charts in the AGI at
> PARES). I have a secondary source that names her father as "Cihuatoatl
> Tlilpotocantzin." "Cihuatoatl" is likely a title. I have no information on
> him. More information may be available in Amada Lopez de Menezes, "Notas y
> documentos acera la descendencia de Moteczuma II," HID 1955, 381-410. I
> believe this journal is actually "Hidalguia," but I am unable to find a
> copy. Amada Lopez de Menezes has numerous publications on Moctezuma and his
> family, as well as other historical topics.
>
> (4) This document is a dispensa for Bartolomeu Rodriguez Bajo which has
> been discussed previously in this forum (and the link provided ...
> ultimately thanks to Claudia's work in the Guadalajara diocesan records ...
> see her website for more information). This document is the earliest
> document that I've seen that actually names Petronila de Moctezuma and
> Martin Navarro. Her ancestry is not provided there, as it is not relevant
> for the dispensation.
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA
>
>
I can't find the word Padres nor the notation you describe in the document. Is it written or printed? Below the surname of the priest (Mata) there is a drawing which is the rúbrica, some kind of personal drawing which may be part of one's signature. Nowadays many people use a rúbrica as their signature.
Victoriano Navarro
Opps, sorry, here is the link to the document.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20473-6640-16?cc=1860864&…
Juanita
Dear Nuestros Rancheros members,
I am pleased to become a member of this research group, and I appreciate in advance any assistance you can offer. A special thanks to Joseph for hosting.
¡Feliz Año Nuevo a Todos!
Linda is right; if we share our records and the findings of our ancestor’s research we’ll grow our family tree in a wonderful way.
¡Les deseo mucho éxito en sus búsquedas este 2014!
Arturo Cuellar Gonzalez
Salt Lake City, Utah
DNA results