Dr.mt

Andres de la Torre Valdes - Jerez

Published by superhorrible –
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Genealogy Research

Hello,

I'm looking for any information about the parents of Juan de la Torre Valdez (married to Juana Gamboa Villalobos)

Comments

Published by rosa9972 – Sat, 2019-07-13 23:55 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Prima Susana (it's been a while):

So, I have a note that that information came from a tree by Salvador Cabral on Rootsweb, but that tree no longer exists there. However, he did place his tree here:
https://gw.geneanet.org/salvadorcabral?lang=es&p=andres&n=de+la+torre . there's a button to contact him to find out more. I think, if you're lucky, he constructed the connections through dispensas. Let me know what you find out!

Rosalinda

Help transcribing

Published by jospuen –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Anyone available to help transcribe a marriage?

Here is the link: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-BK8D-T?i=71&cc=1883388

Comments

Published by gaby.barbosa – Tue, 2019-07-02 14:48 | Permalink

Comment

English is not my first language, but i tried my best.

En el año del señor de 1819, en 31 de Octubre, habiendo precedido las tres canonicas -ilegible words-
en tres dias festivos -lintra missarum solemnia- y no habiendo impedimento alguno, yo el B Don Fernando Villaseñor cura de este partido los case y vele por palabras presente, habiendo y expresado el mutuo consentimiento Jose Sacramento Ledesma con Ma. Josefa Alvarado Espanoles, de San Diego Buenaventura que hacer verdadero y legitimo matrimonio, confesado y comulgado y estando instruidos en la doctrina cristiana PP (padrinos) (could be Jesus Telles, not sure )y Ramona Ledesma

In the year of the lord of 1819, on October 31, having proceeded the three canonical -ilegible words- on three holy days- lintra missarum solemnia (latin)- and having not found any impediment, I Don Fernando Villasenor, priest of this town, married vele (vele, not sure what it means in a catholic marriage), and having said the words, and expressed mutual agreement, Jose Sacramento Ledesma with Maria Josefa Alvarado, Spanish, from San Diego Buenaventura, to be in true and legitimate matrimony, having being confessed and having the holy eucharist. Having being instructed in the christian doctrine. Godparents (ilegible name) and Maria Ramona Ledesma, witnesses Jose Ma. Gutierrez y Jose -ilegible name-

Tierras y aguas, 1584-1866 I need help figuring oot all of it

Published by isloera –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Como muchoas ya han de saber, todos los libros de las Tierras y Aguas sobre las propiedadades están disponibles digitalmente para poderlos consultar/As you might already know, all the books from Tierr

upload
Tierras y aguas 1.PNG (984.85 KB)

Comments

luis salinas y catharina de biana (viana) colotlan/ tlaltenango/ totatiche

Published by superhorrible –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hello,

I need some help with the following marriage:

Comments

Published by rosa9972 – Sat, 2018-06-23 06:00 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Prima Susana (it's been a long time since we talked!),

Just so you know, the older Colotlan records from the book were some unfilmed records from the local convent in Colotlan. I know those records are unavailable on Family Search; I believe my primo Arturo had a contact down there so he was able to see the records.

To answer what I can, Cienega in this case is Cienega de Santa Rosa, a ranch currently in the area of Totatiche. I believe the oldest Colotlan records (the Totatiche church isn't as old as that)would be the convent records, which Arturo transcribed. If the baptism isn't there, the next oldest church is Tlaltenango. However, I have been unsuccessful in looking for similar records-- I believe they either don't exist or have been lost or destroyed in some way.

I have a lot of dead ends in the area! I hope this helps.

Rosalinda

Comment

Hello Prima Rosalinda,

Thank you so much for the information. I'm on the same boat. I have several lines stuck in the area. From Colotlan/Totatiche they emigrated to Jerez years later. I found some records from Tenasco (jurisdiction of Totatiche o Teochaltiche don't remember which) in Aguascalientes. I guess the church was close and people sometimes would go to Aguascalientes. I will keep you posted if I find anything. Thank you again

tu prima susana

Comment

If by Nicolas Mayorga Viana you mean the one married to Agustina Carlos, he's my ancestor. I haven't seen a source naming him as the son of Nicolas Mayorga cc Juana de Viana. Is there one? Otherwise I thought it might be possible it's the same guy with two marriages.

Anyway, for anyone collecting records for Luis and Catalina's family, I found their son Mateo in Villanueva. He says he was born in Jerez about 1702:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TT9N-Y7?cc=1804458&wc=3P92…

Comment

Hello,

Thank you so much for Matheo's record. I didn't have that child. Great find!
Now regarding the Viana family, I suspect that Juana de Viana (married to Nicolas de Mayorga) could be sister of Catharina de Viana (wife of Luis Salinas). But I don't have proofs. Catharina was born in 1665, and Juana was having children around 1682.

If I find any more information, I will make sure to post it.

Thank you again

susana

Land Grants in Nueva Galicia during the XVII century

Published by Bill Figueroa –
Forums
Genealogy Research

From the moment I started researching the history of Aguascalientes, I realized that most of the large haciendas owned by our ancestors were land grants (mercedes de tierras) awarded by the Spanish crown to the early settlers and those who participated in que conquest of Mexico. Land grants were intended to promote agriculture, cattle breeding and mining in the area.

Comments

Published by mendezdetorres – Sat, 2007-03-10 19:26 | Permalink

Comment

My 3rd great father Mariano Camino was given a land grant for a very large hacienda in Huanusco, Zacatecas: The name of the Hacienda was

Hacienda de Nuestra Senora de La Luz ("La Luz")

It was given to him in the year 1899

Published by arturoramos – Sun, 2007-01-14 20:43 | Permalink

Comment

Bill:

This is a very good question. In answering this question it is very important to understand Mexican colonial history and particularly the history of the political divisions within Mexico during Spanish colonial times.

As you probably know all of Aguascalientes, Zacatecas, Jalisco and Nayarit were part of the Viceroyalty of Nueva Galicia. The viceroyalty had its own audencia (court) and government based in Guadalajara. Other than the indigenous towns in the region of Colotlan and Bolanos which were directly ruled by the Viceroy of New Spain in Mexico City, the government in Guadalajara handled all land matters for Nueva Galicia.

I know that for the region around Jerez, Tlaltenango and the surrounding areas in Zacatecas, most of the land grants are found in Guadalajara in the Archivo Historico del Estado de Jalisco in their "Tierras y Aguas" collection. There are subsquent transactions (sales, mortgages, etc.) found in Zacatecas in the state archive in Guadalupe (as this was the closest financial center and likely place for recordation of notarial documents such as these).

I know this is somewhat vague but I am largely speaking from heresay, as I have never seen any of these documents, except in extracts nor have I been able to visit either of these archives.

Comment

Hi Arturo!
Glad you are back!
What a great question that Bill has asked. I do not know the answer, perhaps my friend Martha in Aguascalientes can answer some of the questions. There has to be a book somewhere that can answer at least some of the questions, don't you think? I will let you know if I get an answer next week or rather this week.
Arturo, do you know what the "AGN Vinculos" refers to? Does this have anything to do with property? Land? What are vinculos? I looked it up....an entail..an estate entailed. Bill; have you tried the University of Texas Library, they have a lot of documents. maybe the Nettie Benson, Latin American collection.
Bye, Mickey

-----Original Message-----
From: arturo.ramos2@gmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 9:43 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Land Grants in Nueva Galicia

Bill:

This is a very good question. In answering this question it is very important
to understand Mexican colonial history and particularly the history of the
political divisions within Mexico during Spanish colonial times.

As you probably know all of Aguascalientes, Zacatecas, Jalisco and Nayarit were
part of the Viceroyalty of Nueva Galicia. The viceroyalty had its own audencia
(court) and government based in Guadalajara. Other than the indigenous towns in
the region of Colotlan and Bolanos which were directly ruled by the Viceroy of
New Spain in Mexico City, the government in Guadalajara handled all land matters
for Nueva Galicia.

I know that for the region around Jerez, Tlaltenango and the surrounding areas
in Zacatecas, most of the land grants are found in Guadalajara in the Archivo
Historico del Estado de Jalisco in their "Tierras y Aguas" collection. There
are subsquent transactions (sales, mortgages, etc.) found in Zacatecas in the
state archive in Guadalupe (as this was the closest financial center and likely
place for recordation of notarial documents such as these).

I know this is somewhat vague but I am largely speaking from heresay, as I have
never seen any of these documents, except in extracts nor have I been able to
visit either of these archives.

Comment

Hi Mickey,

I think you're right. There has to be a book that lists some of the early
land grants. Searching through the first books of baptisms (1616-1670) and
marriages (1601-1662) from Aguascalientes, I discovered that by the early
1600s these haciendas were already in full swing. Some of the land grants
were handed by the Spanish Crown 75 years earlier, right after the conquest.
No, I have not checked the UT library in Austin. My son Gabriel graduated
from UT Austin and works at Dell Computers, so maybe one of these days will
go visit him. It's a four hour drive. I always wanted to see the Nettie
Benson, Latin American collection. Regarding your question about VINCULOS,
the word in English is LINKS.

Rgds, Bill

Comment

Tierras y Aguas refers to land grants and land disputes. I know for certain that all of the early land grants from the Tlaltenango and Jerez area are in the Fondo de Tierras y Aguas of the Archivo Historico del Estado de Jalisco, which seems to be what these films refer to. The problem is that there are so many films, I wouldn't know where to start. I imagine it may be worth ordering the film with the index and then you might be able to get an idea of what other films you might have to look through.

If the Archivo General de la Nacion has land grant documents from Nueva Galicia they would likely be the same microfilms of the Jalisco archives that are available through the family history library. I don't know if such films are indexed in ARGENA. I believe that ARGENA only indexes the archive's own documents. I know that when I search for the grants that I know exist in the Jalisco archives in ARGENA, they do not show up.

Comment

Thanks, Arturo. I will request the film "Indice general ordinal y alfabético 1584-1823" FHL INTL Film #269867 tomorrow and will report to Nuestros Ranchos what I find out (probably in 3-4 weeks).

Bill Figueroa

Comment

Now we're talking. Thanks Bill for saying what I hope others in the
group will start saying, "Report to Nuestros Ranchos." Yes this group is
like a Familia. We need to have this attitude that what goes around will
come around. Bill's attitude is great in that he might not gain anything
from "reporting" back to the group what he finds. . .that is unless it
comes back to bless him from someone else's input. We need to at times
just do a random act of genealogical kindness for one another. Imagine
if each of the 150+ members each took it upon themselves to share or
teach something just once a year. Wow we'd have the perspectives of many
different people on a lot of different subjects related to our history.
You can't believe how getting the input from various ones might trigger
ideas and thoughts on how to advance our own specific research.

So now that I'm about ready to get off the Soap Box let me say that if
you haven't posted a message to the group that you should get involved.
go online or open a book or learn something specific about our area of
genealogical research: Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or Aguascalientes and
teach us something. No one will look down on you if it is really really
basic or simple. . .you know why because it will probably be something
that someone in the group needs.

Thanks Bill for your participation, interest and willingness to teach
us. How can I overlook all the great teaching that Arturo and others in
the group have shared with us as well.

Let's make 2007 the year that even those that have just started their
genealogical search learn something new and share it with the group.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Bill Figueroa wrote:
> Thanks, Arturo. I will request the film "Indice general ordinal y alfabético 1584-1823" FHL INTL Film #269867 tomorrow and will report to Nuestros Ranchos what I find out (probably in 3-4 weeks).
>
> Bill Figueroa

Comment

Bill et al:

I am at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City and I have just gone through the index film for the Tierras y Aguas Collection. (FHL Film 0269867). It is definitely what you were looking for. It has original land grants as well as subsequent recorded transfers of those grants. Unfortunately only one of the actual films (other than the index) is here (the rest are in the vaults) so I cannot get my hands on the films with my ancestors' land grants.

The index film is not very long so I am going to try to scan it so that we can perhaps extract out the names and locations of the grants. I think it would be an invaluable index to have available.

Comment

Arturo et al,

Thanks for the update. I ordered the same film in January and have been waiting for a very loooooong time. Hopefully it will be here next week (Dallas, Texas). I guess I was right in thinking there weren't many copies around and they were having to make one from the master. It would be great if you could scan the index so we can see what's in it. Approximately how many entries are there? Maybe we can digitize it later. Anyway, I'll let you know when the film arrives so we can exchange notes...

Bill

Comment

Bill:

I too have been waiting a very long time for a film that I ordered. I think they are having problems with the new inventory and ordering system that they put in place over the new year.

The film is there on the shelf and available. It normally does not take them more than a couple of weeks to make a copy of the film when it is available in the library so I don't know what the hold up would be other than a mix up in the ordering system.

Anyhow, I have a scanner reserved for an hour and I will scan as many pages of the index as possible. There are thousands of entries since it also includes transfers of land.

I took a look at some of the other films in the collection and it appears that upon independence, the Mexican Imperial government began to copy over the land grant and transfer books of the viceroyalty based on municipality so when you see films with dates like 1584-1820 that is what it is... Unfortunately the description does not state what municipality it is. The original viceroyalty books are purely chronological so they span only a few years.

Just to give you an idea... select grants and trasfers from Book No. 10 (1700-1718)... I was looking for Tlaltenango grants thus the focus on that town:

69. Tlaltenango Juan de Miramontes
76. Tlaltenango Juan de Talamantes
81. Tlaltenango Andres Martin y Antonio Gutierrez del Palacio
89. Tlaltenango
90. Tlaltenango
105. Colotlan Naturales
114. Totatiche Pedro Diaz de Santa Cruz
115. Tlaltenango - Milpillas Diego Banuelos
119. Tlaltenango Vicente de Covarrubias
126. Tlatenango Pedro Avila Caldera
170. Jerez Maria Ortiz de San Pedro
187. Jerez Nicolas Carrillo

Comment

This sounds like a really useful film! I felt a rush of excitement
when I read the bits of the index below, because, who knows? maybe MY
ancestors may be found on it!!!! Marge:)
On Mar 10, 2007, at 3:41 PM, arturoramos wrote:

>
> Bill:
>
> I too have been waiting a very long time for a film that I ordered. I
> think they are having problems with the new inventory and ordering
> system that they put in place over the new year.
>
> The film is there on the shelf and available. It normally does not
> take them more than a couple of weeks to make a copy of the film when
> it is available in the library so I don't know what the hold up would
> be other than a mix up in the ordering system.
>
> Anyhow, I have a scanner reserved for an hour and I will scan as many
> pages of the index as possible. There are thousands of entries since
> it also includes transfers of land.
>
> I took a look at some of the other films in the collection and it
> appears that upon independence, the Mexican Imperial government began
> to copy over the land grant and transfer books of the viceroyalty
> based on municipality so when you see films with dates like 1584-1820
> that is what it is... Unfortunately the description does not state
> what municipality it is. The original viceroyalty books are purely
> chronological so they span only a few years.
>
> Just to give you an idea... select grants and trasfers from Book No.
> 10 (1700-1718)... I was looking for Tlaltenango grants thus the focus
> on that town:
>
> 69. Tlaltenango Juan de Miramontes
> 76. Tlaltenango Juan de Talamantes
> 81. Tlaltenango Andres Martin y Antonio Gutierrez del Palacio
> 89. Tlaltenango
> 90. Tlaltenango
> 105. Colotlan Naturales
> 114. Totatiche Pedro Diaz de Santa Cruz
> 115. Tlaltenango - Milpillas Diego Banuelos
> 119. Tlaltenango Vicente de Covarrubias
> 126. Tlatenango Pedro Avila Caldera
> 170. Jerez Maria Ortiz de San Pedro
> 187. Jerez Nicolas Carrillo

Comment

Bill:

I too have been waiting a very long time for a film that I ordered. I think they are having problems with the new inventory and ordering system that they put in place over the new year.

The film is there on the shelf and available. It normally does not take them more than a couple of weeks to make a copy of the film when it is available in the library so I don't know what the hold up would be other than a mix up in the ordering system.

Anyhow, I have a scanner reserved for an hour and I will scan as many pages of the index as possible. There are thousands of entries since it also includes transfers of land.

I took a look at some of the other films in the collection and it appears that upon independence, the Mexican Imperial government began to copy over the land grant and transfer books of the viceroyalty based on municipality so when you see films with dates like 1584-1820 that is what it is... Unfortunately the description does not state what municipality it is. The original viceroyalty books are purely chronological so they span only a few years.

Just to give you an idea... select grants and trasfers from Book No. 10 (1700-1718)... I was looking for Tlaltenango grants thus the focus on that town:

69. Tlaltenango Juan de Miramontes
76. Tlaltenango Juan de Talamantes
81. Tlaltenango Andres Martin y Antonio Gutierrez del Palacio
89. Tlaltenango
90. Tlaltenango
105. Colotlan Naturales
114. Totatiche Pedro Diaz de Santa Cruz
115. Tlaltenango - Milpillas Diego Banuelos
119. Tlaltenango Vicente de Covarrubias
126. Tlatenango Pedro Avila Caldera
170. Jerez Maria Ortiz de San Pedro
187. Jerez Nicolas Carrillo

Comment

I have uploaded the first five pages of the scan of the film. I got about 150 pages scanned though the film is very light and the scans are not always legible.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15827

Below is the index of Libro Numero 2 which is from the early 1600s I believe:

Nombres de Agraciados
que aparecen en el Fondo de Tierras y Aguas
del Archivo Publico del Estado de Jalisco

Libro Número 2

Diego Guerra Valadez
Diego Márquez
Pedro y Sebastian Flores de la Torre
Juan Tello de Orozco
Esteban Anda de Altamirano (Aguascalientes)
Ventura y Francisco de Arce y Castillo (Aguascalientes)
Francisco Gómez
Sebastián Macias y Aguilar? (Estancia de Papalote)
Ventura de Navarrete Angulo (Santa María de los Lagos)
Lorenzo Álvarez (Santa María de los Lagos)
Antonio Acosta (Santa María de los Lagos – Estancia del Sauz)
Fulgencio González de Rubalcaba (Santa María de los Lagos – San Bartolomé)
Capitán Jacinto Velásquez (Santa María de los Lagos – San Bartolomé)
Ysidro de Pedroza (Santa María de los Lagos)
Nicolás de Esquivel (Santa María de los Lagos)
Pedro Flores de la Torre (Juchipila)
Diego Bernal (Real de San Sebastián)
Pedro de Placencia
Domingo de Rojas
Fulgencio González de Rubalcaba (Santa María de los Lagos)
Francisco de Márquez y Cordón
Marcial de Alcalá (Lagos – Jalostotitán)
José de la Peña Durán (Aguascalientes)
Maria de Estrada (Aguascalientes)
Alonso Andrade Rueda (Teocaltiche)
José García de la Vera (Juchipila – Nochistlán)
Jacinto y Gregorio Ramírez (Teocaltiche)
Antonio Ygnacio y Nicolás Nava (Purificación – Tomatlán)
Agustín López
Ygnacio Gallardo
Francisco Martín

Comment

arturoramos wrote:
> Bill:
>
> This is a very good question. In answering this question it is very important to understand Mexican colonial history and particularly the history of the political divisions within Mexico during Spanish colonial times.
>
> As you probably know all of Aguascalientes, Zacatecas, Jalisco and Nayarit were part of the Viceroyalty of Nueva Galicia. The viceroyalty had its own audencia (court) and government based in Guadalajara. Other than the indigenous towns in the region of Colotlan and Bolanos which were directly ruled by the Viceroy of New Spain in Mexico City, the government in Guadalajara handled all land matters for Nueva Galicia.
>
> I know that for the region around Jerez, Tlaltenango and the surrounding areas in Zacatecas, most of the land grants are found in Guadalajara in the Archivo Historico del Estado de Jalisco in their "Tierras y Aguas" collection.

So are these the Tierras and Aguas films that the LDS has available that
I was asking about awhile back? Or are these records about something else?:

Title Tierras y aguas, 1584-1866

Notes Microfilme de manuscritos en el Archivo de Instrumentos
Públicos y en el Archivo de Gobierno del Estado de Jalisco,
Guadalajara.Incluye índices.Land and water rights records from
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.

Subjects México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Land and property

Format Manuscript (On Film)
Language Spanish
Publication Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por la Sociedad
Genealógica de Utah, 1959-1960
Physical 294 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.

For a printable version of this record click here then click your
browser's Print button.

© 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.

==========================

Title Tierras y propiedades, 1691-1898
Authors Iglesia Católica. Diócesis de Guadalajara (México) (Main Author)

Notes Microfilme de manuscritos en el Archivo de la Sagrada Mitra en
Guadalajara.Documents maintained by the Roman Catholic Diocese of
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico regarding land and property.

Subjects México, Jalisco - Land and property
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Land and property

Format Manuscript (On Film)
Language Spanish
Publication Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmadas por la Sociedad
Genealógica de Utah, 1958
Physical 20 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.

For a printable version of this record click here then click your
browser's Print button.

© 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
=========================================

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Comment

Joseph,

That's a good question. I doubt that any of these microfilms include land
grants. It seems like the documents listed under "Tierras y Propiedades,
1691-1898" are deeds of land owned by the Catholic Church. "Tierras y
Aguas, 1584-1866" seems to indicate land and water rights for the public
lands and bodies of water such as lakes, rivers, canals, etc. Maybe other
members of the group have checked these records before...?

Bill

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title Tierras y aguas, 1584-1866

Notes Microfilme de manuscritos en el Archivo de Instrumentos
Públicos y en el Archivo de Gobierno del Estado de Jalisco,
Guadalajara. Incluye índices. Land and water rights records from
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.

Subjects México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Land and property

Format Manuscript (On Film)
Language Spanish
Publication Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por la Sociedad
Genealógica de Utah, 1959-1960
Physical 294 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.

For a printable version of this record click here then click your
browser's Print button.

© 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.

==========================

Title Tierras y propiedades, 1691-1898
Authors Iglesia Católica. Diócesis de Guadalajara (México) (Main Author)

Notes Microfilme de manuscritos en el Archivo de la Sagrada Mitra en
Guadalajara.Documents maintained by the Roman Catholic Diocese of
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico regarding land and property.

Subjects México, Jalisco - Land and property
México, Jalisco, Guadalajara - Land and property

Format Manuscript (On Film)
Language Spanish
Publication Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmadas por la Sociedad
Genealógica de Utah, 1958
Physical 20 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.

For a printable version of this record click here then click your
browser's Print button.

© 2002 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
=========================================

Comment

Thanks for your prompt answer and very useful information. I suppose that the official documents pertaining to land grants in Nueva Galicia are at the "Archivo Historico del Estado de Jalisco" in their "Tierras y Aguas" section. I will contact my relatives in Guadalajara to see if they can help. Incidentally, I have spent many hours checking subsequent transactions at the Archivo Histórico de Aguascalientes, but the "Protocolos Notariales" start around 1650 and I could not find any land grants. Hopefully the Dallas Public Library will have some books that can shed some light on this subject. The DPL is one of the top genealogy libraries in the nation. Thanks again.

Bill

Presencia Judía en Los Altos De Jalisco

Published by R.A.Ricci –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Comments

Published by R.A.Ricci – Fri, 2019-05-03 13:36 | Permalink

Comment

I meant to write French soldiers in the 1860’s, not the 1900’s. These French soldiers left only a small mark in Mexico. My parents’ French ancestry comes from Pre 1600’s

Comment

Hi,

I have read this article before and it has great information but how would we ever know if our ancestors were Jewish since they hid and changed their ways so people would not know. My mother in-laws co-worker is from somewhere in Los Altos but lives here in Arizona now. Her entire family that is still lives there are Jewish and still practice the religion.

Esther

Comment

I just asked my mother in-law and she said the last name is Ramirez. I will try to find out both last names and what ranch or town they live in. I guess her father would tell her never tell anyone years ago that they were Jewish because they were scared.

Comment

Thankyou, it is amazing that they were able to keep their religious faith in secret for so many years!

Comment

Hi,

My mother in-law got the name of the ranch or town where her coworker lived. I thought it was in Los Altos but it’s not but it is in Jalisco. The town is call San Martin de Bolaños and her fathers last name is Arellano and mother’s Ramirez.

Esther

Comment

Dear Esther,

It would be interesting to trace their ancestry. Could you get their contact information so that I may contact them and ask them questions about their ancestry? My Ramirez ancestry from Jalisco is the same Jewish conversó Ramirez family of sor Juana Ynes De la Cruz.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Hi Rick,

I will ask my mother in-law to ask her and she if she would be interested in researching her ancestry.

What town or city is your Ramirez ancestry from. My grandmothers last name was Ramirez and family came from El Capulin el Chaves.

I didn't know Juana Ines was Jewish. A year ago I watched her story on Netflix "Juana Ines" and loved the series.

Esther

Comment

Juana Ynes was not Jewish. She did descend from new Christians. Her ancestral Ramirez branch of the family were Jews that converted to Catholicism. Some of her family suffered much during the inquisition because of their Jewish roots She also had Italian ancestry.
Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Hola Rick,

In following up again on the notion of French ancestry in Los Altos (which my own family members have insisted on), I often wonder how far back in our lineages a French line exists. Could it be that the oral tradition of alteños having French blood lies in the middle ages in Spain, in the region near Salamanca?

Last summer I spent some time in Salamanca at the Universidad de Salamanca and visited the comarca of la Sierra de Francia. I wonder if any of our ancestors in Los Altos came from that area? The Sierra de Francia was repopulated by French settlers in the 12th and 13th centuries upon invitation from rey Alfonso IX. DNA, apparently, also indicates that the present-day inhabitants of the town of La Alberca in La Sierra de Francia have French ancestry, as well as some morisco, and Jewish.

An interesting article I came across states "la repoblación de la zona, desarrollada entre los siglos XII y XIII, contó con numerosos francos gracias al papel desempeñado por Raimundo de Borgoña, noble francés casado con la que terminaría siendo la reina Urraca I de León, la primogénita de Alfonso VI. La sangre local tiene también mucho de árabe y de morisco. No en vano el nombre de esta localidad parece proceder de ‘Al Bereka’, que significa estanque en el idioma de Averroes. Lo mismo cabe decir de la presencia hebrea. De hecho, dicen los estudiosos que la profusión de mensajes religiosos en los dinteles graníticos respondía a la voluntad de muchos judíos conversos de subrayar su fe cristiana en un tiempo en que lo menos grave que podía sucederle al falso converso era la expulsión." Fuente 7/2/19: https://www.mascastillayleon.com/castilla-y-leon/rutas/rutasculturales/…

Another online article states " Alfonso IX de León organiza una nueva repoblación de la Sierra de Francia para afianzar la zona que en esos momentos era fronteriza con Castilla y línea de penetración de los musulmanes. La repoblación implicaba también la fortificación de la zona. Estas repoblaciones trascurrieron desde 1188 a 1230 Para realizar la repoblación llegaron franceses como atestigua la perduración de apellidos de este origen como Bernal o Gascón, pero también tuvieron que llegar pobladores llegados del norte de la península." Fuente 7/2/19: https://salamancartvaldia.es/not/13572/historia-de-la-sierra-de-francia…

If I am not mistaken, Mary Lou Montagna had information that Urraca was one of our direct ancestors. I am wondering if anyone has research as far back as the 12th century to indicate that ancestors of our alteños lines came from the present-day comarca of la Sierra de Francia, near Salamanca?

Best regards,
Kassandra

Comment

Dear Kassandra,

You hit a Bullseye! Much of my French ancestry does indeed come from the 12th, 13th, and 14th centuries that immigrated to what we would now call northern parts of Spain and Portugal. I have researched many ancestral lines that go from Los Altos De Jalisco to France in these centuries. Just to name a few: Rodriguez De Hijar, Ledesma (from De La Torre Ledesma), Peralta (from Coria Peralta), Martin del Campo, Hernandez Arellano ( through Sanchez De Calatayud), and Reynoso. Specifically, the Ledesma from the De la Torre Ledesma ancestral line did come from Salamanca like you mentioned. To a lesser extent there were also “Genoese” immigrants.

Thank you for sharing and adding more evidence to my research. These French immigrants were free individuals. Some of these French were Jewish and from the “house of David.”

Many of the “white “ Christians in the Muslim southern part of the Iberian Peninsula had been forced into slavery by the Muslims. So in southern Spain during the 12th and 13th centuries, if you were a slave you were most likely “white.” The battle of the Christians to take back the Iberian peninsula from the Muslims not only freed the area to be run by “Christians”, but also freed Christians from slavery once their Muslim “Masters” were forced to leave. Most Jews were not forced into slavery by the Muslims and they were the “middle class”. The Jews were afforded many privileges that the “Christians” did not have under the Almohad Muslim rulers. These privileges allowed Jews to study and work with few limitations. Many Christians resented the Jews because of their freedoms under the Muslims and harbored much resentment towards them. The Jews were caught at least twice on the wrong side of civil wars in Spain which contributed to resentment towards them. Many Jews preferred that the Muslims rule so that they could keep enjoying their freedoms. Later on when King Pedro “el cruel” of Castilla was ruler, most of the Jews again sided with the loser when they supported King Pedro in the civil war with his half-brother Enrique of Trastamara.

The Cavalleria Jewish family enjoyed many privileges under Christian rule because they often chose to fight along the Christians against the Muslims. This family enjoyed many privileges into the 15th century, and often intermarried with christian nobility. The Cavalleria family was often a buffer between the Christians and the Jewish as they tried to keep peace between the two groups. Both a Pope and a king Issued proclamations saying that because the Cavalleria family descended from the House of David they were family members of “mother Mary” so they be considered “christianos viejos”.

Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci

Alonso de Arevalo and Beatriz de Ayala

Published by gusmeza –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I’ve done some research of Alonso de Arevalo and Beatriz Lopez de Ayala who settled for a time in Colima. I've read several books referring to this couple.

Comments

Published by hfaizcorbe – Thu, 2019-06-27 19:03 | Permalink

Comment

I believe the confusion arises out of Romero de Solis, author of Andariegos y Pobladores, mistanking Pedro de Arevalo, son of Alonso de Arevalo and Beatriz Lopez de Ayala, with Pedro Ortiz de San Pedro, son of Juan (Ortiz) de San Pedro and Catalina Lopez (de Ayala). There is no reason why a son of the first couple would bear the last name "Ortiz de San Pedro.

The reason he makes the mistake is that Pedro Ortiz de San Pedro (whom Romero de Solis sometimes refers to as "Pedro de Arevalo") had a brother named Gonzalo Lopez de Ayala (this Gonzalo takes the name from his mother, Catalina Lopez "de Ayala"), whom Romero de Solís refers to as "el Mozo", and Beatriz Lopez de Ayala had a brother with the same name (whom Romero de Solis refers to as "the elder"). In certain document, Gonzalo Lopez de Ayala (el Mozo) refers to Pero Ortiz as his brother: "según declaración de Marcos de Cárdenas, moreno libre, mayor de 40 años de edad, hallándose en casa de Diego de Monroy, hará 3 meses, al tiempo que falleció Pedro de Bobadilla, Pero Ortiz, hermano de Gonzalo López, le pidió al mercader Diego de Monroy, de su tienda, ciertas varas de bayeta y cierto tafetán, y otras cosas, que dijo eran para Gonzalo López, …".

Gonzalo Lopez de Ayala, el Mozo, is the one who married Juliana de Bobadilla, and Jeronimo Ortiz was another brother.

I believe that Catalina Lopez (de Ayala) and Beatriz Lopez were sisters (not only because they share the family name, but because Beatriz carried on business transactions with Juan de San Pedro, who lived in Zacatecas, and, at one point, knowing that Juan had financial troubles, she even gave him extra time to pay for what he owed her). Diego Lopez de Ayala, married in 1561 to Juana Fernandez, might have been their brother (and not Pedro de Arevalo and Beatriz's son, as Romero de Solis states, because the couple married in 1537, first child was born in 1538, the second in 1540. No man would be permitted to marry with less than 16 years).

Catalina Lopez married Juan de San Pedro and had 3 sons, most likely born in Zacatecas: 1. Pero (Pedro) Ortiz de San Pedro, married to Maria de Esquivel and lived in Colima, Jerez and most probably in Tlaltenango; 2. Gonzalo Lopez de Ayala (whom she names after her deceased brother), married to Juliana de Bobadilla and lives in Colima and Tlaltenango (where the Bobadillas were from); and 3. Jeronimo Ortiz.

Beatriz Lopez first married Alonso de Arevalo and had 2 sons: Gonzalo Lopez de Ayala and Pedro de Arevalo. Gonzalo died before her mother. Pedro is always referred to by Beatriz as "Pedro de Arevalo", not as "Pero Ortiz de San Pedro" (“... Iten digo que si pareciere yo deber alguna cosa a Alonso Miguel, que averiguado e liquidado lo que fuere, se lo pague Pedro de Arévalo, mi hijo. Iten … - “para hacer y cumplir mi ánima, digo que, si mi hijo Pedro de Arévalo lo quisiere tomar a su cargo, que no se haga almoneda dellos, ni justicia ni otra persona alguna se entremeta en ello, porque ésta es mi voluntad y ansí se lo encomiendo y le ruego que lo haga conmigo como Dios lo haga con él”." - "El 10 de febrero, Pedro de Arévalo, hijo y albacea de doña Beatriz López de Ayala, y el muy reverendo …"). It seems neither of them married or had children.

I do not know anything about Maria de Esquivel, our Pedro's wife.

Regards,
Hector

Comment

ok I recently got my grandma's mtdna results(we are probably both direct descendants of maria esquivel) and the haplogroup results were c1c4. so that should be a little bit helpful in regards to maria esquivel

Published by Octoberfly – Tue, 2019-03-05 05:41 | Permalink

Comment

There is a new post in the Facebook genealogy group: Genealogia de San Juan de Los Lagos y Los Altos de Jalisco.

Published by Octoberfly – Tue, 2019-03-05 05:34 | Permalink

Comment

Agustine,

My ancestor Antonio San Martin Estrada married Jospepha, the daughter of Martin Tello de Orozco and Lorenza de Haro. Have you come across anymore San Martin Estrada’s?

Kind Regards

Oe

Published by Marcelina Macias – Sun, 2019-02-17 13:58 | Permalink

Comment

Hola Agustine:

La historia de detallada de la vida de Beatriz la lei en un archivo PDF que puedes ver en línea llamado "Andariegos y Pobladores de Nueva España y Nueva Galicia" de Miguel Romero de Solís.

También hay una sección dedicada a su hijo Pedro de Arévalo quien fue su sucesor.
Los otros dos hijos de Beatriz: Gonzalo y Diego utilizaban el apellido López de Ayala en lugar del apellido paterno Arévalo.

Gonzalo murió antes que su madre.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comment

Gracias Marcelina por tus comentos. Hace tiempo que he revisado el archivo que mencionaste. Tiene mucho información. Ademas tengo los libros: The Encomenderos of New Spain 1521-1555 autor Robert Himmerich y Valencia, Prosas Literararias e Históricos autor Felipe Sevilla del Río, Los Testigos Hablan (La Conquista de Colima y sus Informantes) por Rosa Margarita Nettel Ross. Todos contienen muchos detalles de esta familia menos las información que busco.

Con Respecto

Agustín (Gus) Meza

Comment

Hola Agustín:

Al parecer Juan Ortiz de San Pedro era minero en Zacatecas, pues aparece como peticionario en una carta que dirigieron los mineros a las autoridades y que está registrada en el Portal pares en la audiencia de Guadalajara, bajo la clave GUADALAJARA,51,L.1,N.139

También hay un privilegio de juros, que al parecer era un "prestamo forzoso" mediante el cual el rey tomaba el oro que iba registrado a España.

Saludos

Marcelina

Ocegueras in Tamazula

Published by gaby.barbosa –
Forums
Genealogy Research

It makes me sad that a lot of my ancestors from Tamazula came from Cotija and I can't find anymore information.

Comments

Published by erlong – Tue, 2019-06-25 10:34 | Permalink

Comment

.
wife of second cousin 2x removed of Dolores Gutierrez wife of Chet Castanon (My mother)
.
baptism 18 Aug 1868 in Tamazula, Jalisco
Maria born in Cofradia 4 days old
parents: Jose Maria Oceguera and Lorenza Alvarez
pat grn: Juan Oceguera and Gertrudis Galves
mat grn: Manuel Alvarez and Guadalupe Contreras
padrinos: Apolinario Barbosa and Lina Rodrigues
source: 0225992 film
page 233 Family search online
.
baptism 11 Dec 1870 in Tamazula, Jalisco
Leocadia born 9 Dec 1870 in Cofradia 2pm
parents: Jose Maria Oceguera and Lorensa Alcaras
padrinos: Rafael Jazo and Teresa Jazo
source: 0225992 film
page 495 Family search online
.
5th cousin of Dolores Gutierrez wife of Chet Castanon
.
(Severiano was the son of Jose Maria and Lorensa)

baptism 26 July 1899 in Tamazula, Jalisco
J. Carmen (M) born in Cofradia 18 July 1899 8am
parents: Severiano Oceguera and Ma. Merced Barbosa
padrinos: Martin Barbosa and Hilaria Moreno his wife
source: 225999 film
page 203 Family search online
.

Published by R.A.Ricci – Mon, 2019-06-24 23:46 | Permalink

Comment

I did not find María Lorenza Alvarez using the surname Arreguin. I did find a record where she has the surname “Alcaras” instead of “Alvarez” .

The marriage record states that they are related in the third degree, so that means that they are second cousins. A grandparent of the bride is a sibling of grandparent of groom.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

I think that you have followed the wrong Manuel Alvarez and Guadalupe Contreras. There are two couples with these names in Tamazula, Jalisco.. The Alcaras is also used in the family that you should be following. The Arreguin surname is used by the family of the second couple also named Manuel Alvarez and Maria Guadalupe Contreras.

José María Oceguera 28 when married in 7/May /1849
(Parents Juan Jose Oceguera and Maria Gertrudis Galvez)

María Lorenza Alvarez(Alcaraz) 16 when married on 7/May/ /1849
(Parents Jose Manuel Alvarez (Alcaras) and Maria Guadalupe Contreras)

The marriage record states that they are second cousins, so a grandparent of the bride is a sibling of grandparent of groom.

Jose Manuel Alvarez (Alcaras)and Maria Guadalupe Contreras
Married 30 Dec 1789in Sayula, Jalisco image 217 out of 300

José Manuel Alcaras (Alvarez) is the son of Juan Manuel Alcaras and Antonia Margarita Gómez

(m. 17 Feb 1754, Sayula, Jalisco)

María Guadalupe Contreras ( bap. 11 Dec 1775, Sayula, Jalisco, Mexico) is the daughter of Phelipe Contreras and Andrea Dolores Cardenas (m. 13 Feb 1752)

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Your welcome,

Here are some more of your ancestors:

Phelipe Neri Contreras (baptized 6/June/1731, Sayula, Jalisco; married to Andrea de los Dolores Cardenas marriage: 13 February 1752, Sayula, Jalisco
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KS9F-5L?i=92&cc=1874591
Image 93 out of 395
PDF:
https://familysearch.org/das/v2/3:1:9392-KS9F-5L/dist.jpg?ctx=CrxCtxPub…

Phelipe Neri is the son of Manuel Contreras and Catharina de Avalos, married 20/Nov1719 in Sayula, Jalisco
Image 86 out of 291
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KHW5-Z?i=85&cc=1874591
No parents listed in marriage record.

Andrea De los Dolores (bap. 21/Feb/1735 Sayula, Jalisco) is the daughter of Sebastian Cardenas and Leonor (Leonora) Anguiano y Corona (married 11/March/1734).

Rick A. Ricci

Sanchez / Sepulveda help transcribing

Published by occams50 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Could someone please transcribe the attached text after the entry of Manuel Sanchez and Juliana Sepulveda in this civel birth registration. Manuel and Juliana are the "grandparents"

thank you

upload
Sanchez - Sepulveda birth_1.pdf (421.56 KB)

Comments

Published by M_Sagrario.Bel… – Thu, 2019-06-27 16:37 | Permalink

Comment

This is what I see...

"Manuel Sanchez y Juliana Sepulveda ya finados. Fueron testigos Esteban Treviño y Guadalupe ... mayores de edad y vecinos de esta...firmaron conmigo..."

Sorry, that's as much as I could make out. I hope this helps. Maybe someone else can fill in the blanks.

Paleography Youtube site

Published by occams50 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

This may be old news to some of you but for me and maybe others, I've
located a YouTube site that might be able to help the novice, such as myself,

Comments

Published by sarod77 – Thu, 2019-06-27 08:00 | Permalink

Comment

Thank you for the site address. If it had been posted before, I did not see it. The years 1550 or earlier scripts, I just avoid as they are extremely difficult for me to decipher. After reviewing the abbreviations post, it will definitely be useful in the future. Thanks again,
Simona.

Medrano - Atontonilco El Alto, Jalisco

Published by cherna –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi all,

Does anyone have any information regarding the surname Medrano in San Francísco Cerro Gordo, or Atontonilco?

Comments

Published by cherna – Fri, 2018-11-02 10:06 | Permalink

Comment

To add to this, my GGGGrandfather was Jose Salome Medrano (father of Sixto Medrano).

Jose Salome Medrano
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 13 nov. 1847
Baptism Place: Santa Maria de Guadalupe, Arandas, Jalisco, Mexico
Father: Jose Maria Medrano
Mother: Maria Santos Relles
Maternal Grandfather: Agustin Reyes
Maternal Grandmother:
Ygnacia Arebabalo

Comment

Hi cherna,

My husbands last name is Medrano as well and I started working on his family tree and thought he would have originated from Spanish lineage. I Was able to trace GGG grandfather to 1766 in San Luis Potosí but he is identified as a Lobo ( Indian with African). I am not able to find anymore records. Do you think they would get their last names from the people they worked for or if they were slaves from their owners? My father in-law did his dna test and shows he has some Spanish but I’m thinking that is from his grandmothers side, her last name was Melchor from Nuevo León.

Esther

Comment

Hi Esther,

Funny, I was just thinking about this over the weekend. I dug a little more into this side of my family.

My GGreat-Grandfather was Sixto Medrano born ~1869.
My GGGreat-Grandfather was Jose Salome Medrano born ~1847, married to Isabel Cuevas.
My GGGGreat-Grandfather was Jose Maria Medrano born ~1820, married to Micaela Reyes (Relles)
My GGGGGreat-Grandfather was Felipe Medrano, married to Agustina Romero.

The marriage record for Felipe & Agustina identifies them both simply as "Indio/a". I cannot find a baptism record for Felipe. However, their marriage record list their parents. J Manuel Medrano y Felipa Neri. Antonio Romero y Encarnacion Zalasar. The record states Felipe being from "Puesto de la Transquila". It seems since the 1800's they stayed in Los Altos.

I seem to have hit a wall here, since I cannot find a baptism record for Felipe Medrano, nor much on his father, Jose Manuel Medrano.

I have read in a few threads here that it was customary for Indios to take the surname of patrones of their hacienda, rancho, pueblo, etc. when converting to Catholicism.

PADRONES DEL ARQUIDIOCESIS DE MICHOACAN

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola primas y primos,

Comments

Published by Maureen Bejar – Sun, 2019-06-23 09:52 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Manny:
I have a question of the padrone of Taramequaro. How many pages does it consist? I found a Joseph Bexar, but then looked five pages over and it seems there are other towns, I saw the word Barrio, but not sure if it was the last name or that Taramequaro had ended. I am doing my husband's family tree now on ancestry. Was curious how long the family had been at Taramequaro, but it looks like the 1680s is not out of the question. Thank you for putting these up, it would have taken me ages to find it on familysearch.

Maureen Bejar

Published by mralvarez314 – Thu, 2017-06-01 17:38 | Permalink

Comment

Because many of my ancestors come from the Arandas and Jesús María areas, I put together this finding aid so that I could quickly locate families, family groups and siblings. Perhaps it may also help some of you.

PADRON 1825: Congregación de Arandas & Barranca de Viudas (Jesús María)- including many of the surrounding ranchos, puesto, estancias and haciendas.

FILM 168835

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-W96W-M?i=94&cat=32677

Image Location(s)

095 Congregación de Arandas (begins)
106 Barrio de Santa Rosa
107 Capulincito, Saca Mecate, Carrisal de Arriba
108 Carrisal de Abajo
109 Los Atascosos, Serrito Blanco
110 Serrito de la Cruz, la Ermita, el Salto, Rio de los Sanches, Serro de Gusano
111 Aransaso, Ojo de Agua de Belasq., Bonanza, las Pilas, los Robles
112 Los Chicos, Poruyo
113 Noaliyo, el Sausiyo, Tepetate, Santa Gertrudis, el Laurel, los Lobos, Rincón de los Ocotes
114 Rincón Chico, Ojo de Agua
115 Rincón de el Molino
116 Pobladita, la Gloria, los Planes, la Sieneguilla
117 Colambre, Sentro, Palo Cuate
118 La Pueblita, San Ysidro, los Serritos, Ojo de Agua de los Garcias
119 San José de los Gracias, San Roque, Rio Frio, el Ocote
120 Durasnito, Santa Bárbara, el Carmen, el Chivo, Rancho de el Monte, Salto de Sapateros, Chilarejo
121 Saltiyo, Caracol, Jesús María, Baloneado
122 Chorrera, Serro de Ayo, Laguna Grande, Matadero
123 Los Lobos, San Rafael, San Antonio, Ojo de Agua de S. Anto., Nopal, Canta Ranas
124 La Jolla, las Pomas, la Mecita, Balenciana, Agua Nueva
126 El Nacimiento, Buena Bista, Sabanilla
128 Ramblas, las Pilitas, Salto de Sn. Nicolás, Llano Grande, Ojo de Agua de Noche
129 Mogote, Corralitos, Cabrito, SanFrancisquito, Rosa de Castilla, Saltillo
130 Sn. Franco. De los Ocotes, San Gerónimo, Rancho Seco, Santiaguito
131 Canta Ranas, Santa Anita, el Estribo, Santa Rita
132 Farfán, la Puerta, Farfán de Abajo, Rancho Biejo
133 La Troja, Serritos, Rancho de Guadalupe
134 Los Corrales, Rancho de Ornelas, Laguna de Tío Sanch
135 Tecolote, Ojo Sarco, Yerba Buena, Huerta, Otomites
136 Las Lagunas, Carriso de Fuentes, San José de Pilas
138 Regladero, Saltillo, las Pilas
139 Agostadero, Sabino
140 Rancho de Cruz Blanca, Jolla de N. S. de Guadalupe, Rancho Nuebo
141 Montesuma, Capulín de Chaves
142 Las Crucitas, las Mecitas
143 Panadillo, el Baluarte, Ojo de Agua de el Monte, Ojo de Agua de Flores, las Crucez
144 Balenciana, las Rayses, Buenabista, los Timones
145 Rincón de Palominos, la Madrastra, Huejolote, la Sieneguita
146 La Barbacoa, Barranca de Lobos, Mesa de Carreras, San Judas
148 El Ballecito, los Potrillos
149 Laguna de Potrillos, Presa de Ojo Sarco, Saus de Cagigal
150 Uña de Gato, los Tapancos, la Mesita
151 Rancho de el Puerto, Palos Duces, los Encinos, Ojo de Agua de el Perro, Cruz de el Pastor, el Caracol
152 Pocito de la Virgen, el Sapote, Camaleón Grande, Media Luna, la Cacallaca, Camaleón Chico
153 Punta de la Loma Larga, Loma Larga, las Calandreas, el Frontón, la Reata, la Paleta, los Edificios
154 La Campana, las Tortugas, Mentidero
155 El JoCoyote, Sauciyo, Bayado, Mexiquito, las Lagunitas, San Francisco
156 Garita
157 Santiago, Sentinela, Tecolote
158 Santa María, Nopal, El Mogote
159 El Saltillo, el Tule, los Sauses
160 El Ancón, Agua Nueba, los Grangenos, Capulín Berde, la Presa
161 San Visente, San Nicolás
162 El Palomo, el Biborero, el Tortillero, Xaguetas, San Ramón, los Colorines, Tuna de Abajo
163 La Tigera, Santa Barbara, Tuna de Enmedio
164 Sacamecate, Tuna de Arriba, Saucito, las Pilas
165 Pueblito, Regladero, Teposan, Boca de Leones, la Yguana
166 El Salero, la Capacha, los Pastores, Copozo, Hacda. de Trasquila
167 Rancho de la Cruz, Santa Rita, Terrero, el Ospital
168 Los Collotes, la Mata, la Parada, Punta de el Monte, el Regladero, la Ordeña
169 Queretanito, (late additions to the pardon)
170 Barranca de Viudas (Jesús María), Sauciyo de Fuentes, Hacda. de Guade., los Arrastres, Ayo el Grande, Ciénega de Galvanes
172 Capulín de Galvanes, Carriciyo
173 El Pino, Rancho de Acumbaro, San Miguel, Palo Caydo, la Leonera, el Paso
174 La Soledad, el Bracito, San Agustín, el Debisadero, el Gallero
175 Los Yanitos
176 Los Pocitos, San Nicolás, Uña de Gato, Barranca de Zarates
177 Los Robles, Barranca de Viudas
178 Rancho del Fierro, la Ladriyera, las Canoas, los Ojitos de Agua
179 Montesuma
180 (abstract or summary)

Comment

Padrón del pueblo y de su jurisdicción de Ayo el Chico

FILM 168835

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-W9DB-Y?mode=g&cat=326…

Image Location(s)
203 Pueblo
211 La Mesa, el Ojo de Agua, Palomitos, Vajada de la Estancita, Cañada del Molino
212 Puertecito
213 Loma Atravesada, el Saucillo, la Nues
214 Serrito Blanco, Vuelta a la Ciénega, Puente Vieja, Guanajuatillo, la Presa, Troja Quemada, el Vajio
215 Caracol, Paderones, Hacda. de la Isla
217 La Soledad, Punta Cola
218 Hacda. de la Lada. (Ladera?)
219 Matas Berdes, San Onofre
220 Barranca de Guallabo, el Salate, Hacienda del Jaral
221 Balenciana, Rancho del Pollo, Hacda. de Mirandillas
222 San Miguel, Lindero de Acaguales
223 El Benado, Chocolate, la Tuna del Monte, la Borrega, Agua Caliente
224 Coral de Piedra
225 Rancho de Marijo
226 Altamira, la Tijera, los Gicotes, Rancho de las Cruses, las Adjuntas
227 La Espada, Mesquitillo, el Tejón, Mesquite Grande, Salitre de Guapagco.
228 Los Ranchitos
229 Rancho de la Noria, Rancho de la Soledad, Estancia de Tarimoro
230 La Sabinillas, Hasienda de Guascato
232 Molino de Guascato, Salto de Guacato el Salitre de Guascto.
233 El Callejon de Guascato, Santa Ynes, San Antonio Gauscto., Salitrillo de Guascato, Sapote de Callejo, Hacda. de Sta. Cruz de Callejo
234 Los Mesquites, S. Rafael de Barbosa, Barbosa de la Ornilla, Barbosita, Hacda. de San Gerónimo
236 Rancho de la Noria, Buelta a Sn. Gerónimo, Rancho de la Noria, la Bolsa, los Callejones
237 Salitre Albareño, Cueba del Gato, el Paso de la Canoa de Yurécuaro, Sn. Jose Yurécuaro, Palo Berde, Palos Altos, Hacda. de Sta. Rita
238 Carretas, Ramires, Rancho del Fraile, Buelta Acahuales
239 La Yguera, las Capitanas, el Guallabo
240 El Cerrito, el Ranchito
241 Barranca del Sospiro, la Sabiniya, el Jaraliyo, las Cruses
242 El Sapote, Cañada del Pescado, Serrito de Lara (?), Sienega de la Ladera, Cañada de la Palma, la Angostura, el Monte Largo
243 La Colanbre, la Guerta, Rancho del Tinbinal, el agua Escondida, San Roque, Tambien de la Colanbe., Salto

Published by sarod77 – Sat, 2016-05-21 12:16 | Permalink

Comment

Perhaps it has been discussed before what the list is and can be used for. I see it has Casa names of individuals, is this like a census? How can I best use this list. Thanks for the information.

Published by oldcar53 – Sat, 2016-05-21 13:15 | Permalink

Comment

Yes, it is the census of a specific town or rancho....it tells you who
lived in one household, the names of the people, their ages, where they
were born, if they could read or write and what their occupation was.

On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 12:16 PM, wrote:

> Perhaps it has been discussed before what the list is and can be used for.
> I
> see it has Casa names of individuals, is this like a census? How can I best
> use this list. Thanks for the information.
>

Published by jrefugioghermosillo – Sat, 2016-05-21 15:00 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Simona,

Yes, a “padrón” is a church census, and it names all of the residents by household. In many, they list only those who have confessed (age 5+) and had communion (8+). It names entire family groups, w/ servants & slaves, living in that house, on that street, during that year. You can use it to locate your people, and to establish family groups and relationships, and even approximate birth, marriage and death years.

For instance, I descend from Ana de Colonia, who married Juan Machuca Villareal, 26 Apr 1688, in Patzcuaro, Mich. Ana was daughter of Juan de Colonia aka Francisco de Colonia and Luisa de Quintanilla aka Luisa Rangel Quintana, who married 16 Oct 1665, in Chilchota, Mich. Besides Ana’s 03 Feb 1669 baptism record, I could find no trace of this couple, they appear to drop off the map.

Using the 1681-82-83-84 padrones for Patzcuaro, I was able to locate Ana de Colonia aka Ana Colon aka Ana Rangel, living with different aunts - two whom I had already established as sisters of Juan de Colonia: Leonor de Velasco and Maria Colonia, who were children of Francisco de Colonia and Brigida Floriana de Velasco. Another person who appears in the padrones is Nicolasa de Velasco, who was likely another daughter of Francisco Colonia and Floriana de Velasco. I’ve known nothing about her, because she never married.

Ana’s mother appears nowhere in the padrones, so she likely died before 1681. Juan de Colonia appears in the 1681 padron, listed as Francisco Colonia, living with his sisters, Nicolasa de Velasco and Maria Colonia. Ana was living with their sister, Leonor de Velasco and her husband, Antonio de Pisa. Juan de Colonia is probably the same Juan Colon, who lived down the street in 1683 & 1684, with Beatriz and Ana de Segura. If he is, then I know he died on 05 Dec 1706, Patzcuaro. He remained single.

By looking at street names, as well as neighboring households, each year, I was able to determine whether or not my ancestors moved, or whether they stayed in the same house: by following the movements of the aforementioned family group, I was able to establish that they gravitated around one house in particular (the house between Francico Segura’s and Luis de Soria’s), which would have to be the ancestral home, the one left by their mother, Floriana de Velasco, who left a testamento. Ana de Colonia lived in that house during 3 of the 4 years. Head of household changed each year, depending on the oldest resident son-in-law, and finally, with the oldest surviving daughter, Nicolasa de Velasco.

My favorite TV show is PBS Sherlock (and TVE Ministerio del Tiempo!). Can you tell?

I hope that helps!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Published by sarod77 – Sat, 2016-05-21 20:44 | Permalink

Comment

Thanks Manny for the wonderful way in which you give an explanation and weave a story to match. You are truly a History Detective, keep watching those programs! (I had to look up what TVE Ministerio del Tiempo was. Sounds like Dr. Who)

Thanks also to oldcar53 for responding, truly appreciate the info.

Published by alicebb – Sat, 2016-05-21 14:45 | Permalink

Comment

Where do does one find padrones?  On familysearch?Thanks,  ABB

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 3:14 PM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

Yes, it is the census of a specific town or rancho....it tells you who
lived in one household, the names of the people, their ages, where they
were born, if they could read or write and what their occupation was.

On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 12:16 PM, wrote:

> Perhaps it has been discussed before what the list is and can be used for.
> I
> see it has Casa names of individuals, is this like a census? How can I best
> use this list. Thanks for the information.
>

Published by oldcar53 – Sat, 2016-05-21 21:17 | Permalink

Comment

If they exist for your town, you should be able to find them in Family Search or in Ancestry I'm told. I don't have Ancestry, but if you do, you might give it a look.

In family search it should be towards the end of the films for your city or town of research as it begins with the letter "P" by Procesos Matrimoniales

Comment

Ha! There already is one: “Partidos y Padrones del Obispado de Michoacan,” by Alberto Carrillo Cazares. There’s a chart of padrones that I used to locate these.

And I have to give thanks to the LDS, for upgrading their document viewer: the “tile view” absolutely ROCKS, being able to view several documents on a roll, so one’s able to see when expedientes end, as well as locate the padrones! Time saver!

Manny Diez Hermosillo

Felipe Díaz de Lomas

Published by jeantavera –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola, Buenas Noches.

Queridos compañeros y paisanos. Alguien tendrá información acerca de Felipe Díaz de Lomas?

My introduction:)

Published by M_Sagrario.Bel… –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Hi, I'm Mayra and I've only recently (about a month or so) started doing genealogy research. I've found this fascinating and I've really enjoyed discovering my family's history.

Comments

Published by gaby.barbosa – Mon, 2019-06-17 10:17 | Permalink

Comment

Mayra, bienvenida al grupo, I hope you find it as useful as I have. There are great people here that are so helpful too :)

Cheers

Published by mendezdetorres – Sun, 2019-06-16 13:37 | Permalink

Comment

Welcome to the group Mayra!

You'll find lots of helpful people on here, we are all passionate about genealogy. We are related thru your Méndez de Torres line--you'll find a handful of people also sharing this link on here.

Your ancestor Francisco Xavier Méndez de Torres y Ramírez de Esqueda, married to Josefa de Verduzco y Cuevas on 25 Jun 1725 in Tlazazalca, was a first cousin to my 5th great grandmother, Juana Teresa Méndez de Torres y Méndez de Torres, Salceda-Andrade, baptized on 28 Feb 1724 in Zamora.

Francisco & Josefa's marriage record: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-9G98-J?i=86&wc=3N1M-MN…

Because many families in Tamazula originated in Michoacán and to respect the intention of this group studying Nueva Galicia, please email me at dmendezcamino@gmail.com. I 'd love to discuss and share anything I have that may help you!

Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino

Published by R.A.Ricci – Sun, 2019-06-16 14:12 | Permalink

Comment

Welcome Mayra,

José. Ramon beltran Is the Son of Esteban Beltran and Mariana Cordova

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GRDC-T?i=611&cc=1874591

Paula Cardenas is the daughter of Jose Adrian Cardenas and Manuela Bernabe

Esteban Beltran is the son of Florencio Beltran and Dionicia Huerta ( I wonder if this couple is the same couple known as Florencio Beltran and Dionicia Rodriguez)

Mariana Cordova is the daughter of Severo Cordova and María Fernanda Mundo.

Severo Cordova is the son of Bernardino Cordova and Estefana Lopez

María Fernanda Mundo is the daughter of Jose Raymundo Mundo and Buenaventura (Ventura) Carillo

Jose Ramon Beltran
Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1979
Name: Jose Ramon Beltran
Event Type: Baptism
Event Date: 04 Sep 1881
Event Place: San Gabriel, Venustiano Carranza, Jalisco, Mexico
Gender: Male
Father's Name: Estevan Beltran
Mother's Name: María Cordova

José Adrian Cardenas is the son of Donaciano Cardenas and María Guillerma Pinto

María Manuela is the daughter of Anselmo Bernabe and Petra Lopez

Donaciano Cardenas is the son of Jose Cardenas and María Hernandez.

María Guillermina is the daughter of Juan Pinto and Siberia

Manuela Bernabe Lopez
Gender Female
Christening Date 07 Jun 1861
Christening Place SAYULA,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Anselmo Bernabe
Mother's Name Petra Lopez
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV9Z-D9F : 10 February 2018), Anselmo Bernabe in entry for Manuela Bernabe Lopez, 07 Jun 1861; citing SAYULA,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 224,951.

Adrian Cardenas
Spouse's Name Manuela Bernabe
Event Date 29 Apr 1884
Event Place Sayula,Jalisco,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCX5-4NG : 10 February 2018), Adrian Cardenas and Manuela Bernabe, 29 Apr 1884; citing Sayula,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 224,991

Donaciano Cardenas
Spouse's Name Maria Guillerma Pinto
Event Date 02 Jun 1856
Event Place Sayula,Jalisco,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCXP-7XT : 10 February 2018), Donaciano Cardenas and Maria Guillerma Pinto, 02 Jun 1856; citing Sayula,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 224,989

Happy Fathers Day
Rick A. Ricci
Source Mygenes2000

Published by sarod77 – Sun, 2019-06-16 10:06 | Permalink

Comment

Welcome!
I am currently working on my cousins lines in Techaluta, but she has relatives in Tapalpa so I took a look at your people:2. Rosalio Beltran Cardenas, son of Jose Beltran and Paula Cardenas. I looked up the IM (Informacion Matrimonal) and was able to take your line a few generations back. I checked each child who had a birthdate and found Jose Beltran is Jose Ramon Beltran and Paula is Paula. HAPPY FATHERS DAY TO ALL

Simona

Comment

Dear Mayra
The “tribe native to that region of Jalisco” ancestry that your family spoke about may come from Maria Guillerma Pinto. She is often found in records without her surname and “Coyota” written after Guillermina. Many genealogists mistakenly think Coyota is her surname.

Rick A Ricci

Comment

Thank you! I did notice that in one of the records but I wasnt sure what it meant. Was that a term they used for Natives? I also found her as Gullermina Nila on a different document, but I later found that to be her mother's last name.

Comment

It is an obsolete term used to identify “a person of mixed Native American and mestizo descent.”

Rick A. Ricci

Looking for an archive in Jalisco

Published by Esther Hernand… –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi, I’m looking for a file of a census taken in 1861 to establish a new municipal of Degollado, Jalisco. A historian from Degollado wrote me this.

Lucas Garcia de Alba e Isabel Martin del Campo marriage

Published by gaby.barbosa –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola Prim@s,

One of the brick walls on my family tree has been broken by this finding... hope you find it useful too

Lucas García de Alba e Isabel Martín del Campo
Información Matrimonial

Comments

Published by gaby.barbosa – Mon, 2019-06-17 08:48 | Permalink

Comment

Thank you Rick, could you share those dispensations with me please?

Thank you in advance!

Cheers

Comment

According to a marriage dispensation .Angela Perez Maldonado is Diego’s granddaughter. However, another dispensation has her as his daughter, instead of granddaughter. I need to do more research to find out which of these two dispensations has the correct information.

Rick A. Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci – Fri, 2019-06-14 09:41 | Permalink

Comment

Through your Angela Perez Maldonado ancestry you have at least five lines that descend from Anusim, Catholics converted from Judaism. These lines go back many centuries as they connect to the house of David. Some of her ancestral lines also go back to Spanish royalty.

Rick A. Ricci
Source Book Mygenes2000

Comment

This is very interesting, I know with family search you can only reach up to a point, what resources can I use to continue my research? (while I wait for your book ?)

Thanks again for taking the time to comment

Comment

Rick

This is very interesting, I know with family search you can only reach up to a point, what resources can I use to continue my research? (while I wait for your book ?)

Thanks again for taking the time to comment

Gaby

Comment

Hello Gaby,

There is much information in my book that would take you over forty years to research if you took as long as I did to collect my information. It is actually closer to fifty years since I have been researching genealogy since I was a teenager.

To get some more information you can look up my posts on some of your ancestors.

1. “probable ancestors of Toribio Hernández Arellano”. The Golluf family.

2. Alonso Estrada and his family tree

3. The “ Cavalleria “ family

4. The Ramirez Cantillana family from SanLucar De Barameda Andalucía. This is the same Ramirez family of Sor Juana Ines De la Cruz. Her father was related to her mother through their Ramirez ancestry.

5. Pedro 1 “el cruel” Rey De Castilla y Leon and Ysabel de Sandoval

Rick A. Ricci
Source: Book Mygenes2000

Comment

Wow, amazing, I will patiently wait for your book and will definitely read your other posts, thank you so much again, I feel like I'm late to he party but I am actually super thankful this forum exists....

Do you know who her parents were?

I was able to find her death record and two more of her children but nothing else so far.... Also, I haven't been able to link Bernabe, her husband, to the other Martin del Campo families in Jalisco, any info is greatly appreciated

Cheers

Gaby

El Posito Arandas?

Published by cherna –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi everyone,

Comments

Published by ElCapitanPaco – Thu, 2019-06-06 15:24 | Permalink

Comment

Acta bautismal de María Delfina Morales Vital - 5 de noviembre de 1884, Arandas, Jalisco

(Ella nació en el Pocito de la Virgen - fue hermana de mi tatarabuela Ma. Cruz Morales Vital)

Fuente: "México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GB3Q-GS?cc=1874591&wc=3J61… : 16 February 2017), Arandas > Santa María de Guadalupe > Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1884-1886 > image 50 of 370; parroquias Católicas, Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco).

Published by Esther Hernand… – Fri, 2019-04-26 13:23 | Permalink

Comment

Hi,

I was going through the padrones for 1831 for Arandas and I just saw those two ranches.

https://en.mexico.pueblosamerica.com/jalisco/arandas/

Here is a list of ranches and town in Arandas, I see Piedras Blancas as well as two El Pocito de Abajo and El Pocito de Arriba.

Use this map and you will see both ranches el pocito de arriba and piedras blancas.

https://mapcarta.com/es/30138502

Comment

Hi Esther,

Thank you very much! I think the spelling in the record was throwing me off.

The map you linked is a tremendous help. Thank you for this. My guess is that it is "El Pocito de Arriba" - due to a few facts. It is very close to Piedras Blancas. I have found other siblings to my GGrandfather born in "El Zapote", which is also nearby. When I asked my Grandfather where his father was born, he said he wasn't 100% sure, but he thinks near "La Rana" or "Hacienda de Guadalupe".

Thank you again!

Comment

My great-grandfather Antonio Hernández Morales was born in 1893 in "El Pocito", which in the previous two centuries had been called in its entirety "El Pocito de la Virgen". I have never heard of El Pocito de Abajo nor El Pocito de Arriba...NEVER!!! These must be very recent creations, not historical.

El Pocito de la Virgen refers to the Capilla del Pocito, one of the 6 churches located en el Cerro del Tepeyac, en la villa de Guadalupe, the site of the Insigne y Nacional Basílica de Santa María de Guadalupe del Tepeyac, en la Ciudad de México, Distrito Federal.

My great-great-grandfather Juan Hernández Alvarez born in 1862 was also born in El Pocito de la Virgen, as were several other close relatives. Siblings of my Hernández, Morales, and Vital ancestors were also born in El Pocito de la Virgen. My great-great-great-grandfather Teodoro Morales died in El Pocito de la Virgen in 1898. His wife, my great-great-great-grandmother Juana Vital Gutiérrez, died in 1913 in the exact same place, El Pocito, but by 1913 it was already renamed Santa Maria de la Paz / del Valle.

The name of Rancho (o Puesto) de "El Pocito de la Virgen" was shortened to El Pocito, and is located between the plazas de Arandas y San Miguel el Alto. Ahora ya no se llama El Pocito. In the early 20th century it was renamed Santa Maria de la Paz, which was then changed to Santa Maria del Valle. It is located north of the Crucero de Arandas (on the right), before you arrive in San Miguel el Alto.

Comment

Francisco,

I'm pleasantly surprised you showed up in my thread. The amount of information and knowledge you have is staggering. Thank you for sharing.

Is it possible you and I are related? My great-grandfather Sabino Hernández Gonzales was born in 1863 in Piedras Blancas, which is very close to Santa Maria del Valle. His Father, was Mateo Hernandez "Originario y vecino del Saucito".

"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GRQB-1M?cc=1874591&wc=3J6V… : 28 June 2014), San Miguel el Alto > San Miguel el Alto > Matrimonios 1852-1870 > image 45 of 516; parroquias Católicas, Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco).

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-GRQB-1M?i=44&cc=1874591

Thank you,

Carlos

Comment

Everyone,

I've come to realize that this is NOT my family line. One bit of information I got from my Grandfather - regarding my Great-Grandfather's age turned out to be false. I found [correct] records for my Great-Grandfather and his family, with facts and names that out-weigh the previous family line I was researching.

Although, research can be a bit frustrating, I learned my lesson regarding the importance of fact checking.

Saludos primos,

Carlos

Colonial Somberette and Jacqez family

Published by ayalarobles –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi,

I have traced my La Riva line to Tomas Jaquez who married in San Juan Del RIo, Durango in 1689. The marriage record stated he was from Somberette, Zacatecas. I guess he was he was born about 1660. I can't find church records for that period in Somberette. I suspect the family was French. I am looking for any information for the early colonial Somberette. I would like the names of several books just on Somberette. I know about the mines but outside of the Toolosa and Ybarra familes I do not know about other families living there. I know by looking at some immigration records, some Jacquez came from Flanders. If anyone can give me any clues or suggestions I would most appreciate it.

Comments

Published by bmentxaka – Thu, 2019-03-21 12:01 | Permalink

Comment

Esther,

Have you had any luck with the Jaques line?

Bernardo Menchaca

Published by arturoramos – Tue, 2007-12-11 08:37 | Permalink

Comment

Esther:

I am not sure when the secular parish was founded in Sombrerete, but initially (in 1567) the church in the town was actually a Franciscan convent. I know from trying to research the Franciscan convent records from Colotlan, Jalisco that they can often be dispersed... some records may have been left behind with the newly founded secular parish (and thus filmed with those records) while others may have been sent back to the Franciscan Order archives (probably in Santo Domingo in the City of Zacatecas--which probably means they are lost). However, there are some surviving Franciscan records in a number of dedicated Franciscan Order archives in Mexico.

Published by margeval – Mon, 2007-12-10 11:15 | Permalink

Comment

Perhaps the reason you can't find the records is because the town is
spelled Sombrerete. Marge:)
On Dec 10, 2007, at 11:02 AM, eaherold@att.net wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have traced my La Riva line to Tomas Jaquez who married in San Juan
> Del RIo, Durango in 1689. The marriage record stated he was from
> Somberette, Zacatecas. I guess he was he was born about 1660. I
> can't find church records for that period in Somberette. I suspect
> the family was French. I am looking for any information for the early
> colonial Somberette. I would like the names of several books just on
> Somberette. I know about the mines but outside of the Toolosa and
> Ybarra familes I do not know about other families living there. I
> know by looking at some immigration records, some Jacquez came from
> Flanders. If anyone can give me any clues or suggestions I would most
> appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> AyalaRobles
>
>
> --
> Esther A. Herold
>
>
> -------------- Original message from Latina1955@aol.com: --------------
>
>
>>
>> In a message dated 12/9/2007 4:50:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>> longsjourney@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> Esperanza, your reference to Valle de Guadalupe, Michoacan, is that
>> the same
>> one that is part of Chilchota Michoacan. Do you have specific
>> surnames?
>> I've traced my Gutierrez/ Alvarez del Castillo to there back to abt
>> 1620 and
>> wondered if by any chance it's the same Valle de Guadalupe.
>> thank you, Linda in Everett
>>
>> By the way, my ancestors in Jerez Zacatecas said they had French
>> blood too,
>> not true according to the records. Lot's of blue and green eyes, red,
>> blond and brown hair but not a Frenchman in the bunch!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes it is...although Chichota is at the other side of the mountain.
>> This is
>> my husband's side of the family ---surnames include Valdez,
>> Oropeza,Ortiz,
>> Duarte, Escobar, Madrigal, and Rocha. There is a large Alvarez family
>> that is
>> married with some of my husband's cousins. Remember that the French
>> were not
>> very embraced after they were supposed to leave...therefore, those
>> that did
>> stay, stayed in small village often changing their names. The family
>> Escobar
>> is said to have the French ancestry. They intermarried the locals,
>> and all
>> that is left is the legacy of their word.
>>
>> My aunt also insisted that we had French blood (from Tlaltenango).
>> However
>> I did not put much credence into this, as she had virtually no
>> contact with
>> the relatives left in Mexico - she may have heard this from my
>> grandparents..but in those days, grandparents did not talk about back
>> home....they fled
>> Mexico because my grandfather had killed someone of importance during
>> the civil
>> war.
>>
>> She (my aunt) may have put this together because in our family we
>> have some
>> very fair skinned individuals....in my own family, I had two brothers
>> (one
>> died) who had sandy brown hair and bright blue eyes (both needed
>> picks to comb
>> their hair). The rest of us look either extremely "indio" or like any
>> other
>> Mexican one would see throughout Mexico.
>>
>> Esperanza
>>
>>
>>
>> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's
>> hottest
>> products.
>> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?
>> NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

Comment

You also want to look in certain archives for "villa de Llerena", which was
its old name.

Regards,
Hector Felix Aizcorbe

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de M.Vallazza
Enviado el: Lunes, 10 de Diciembre de 2007 12:07 p.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colonial Somberette and Jacqez family

Perhaps the reason you can't find the records is because the town is
spelled Sombrerete. Marge:)
On Dec 10, 2007, at 11:02 AM, eaherold@att.net wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have traced my La Riva line to Tomas Jaquez who married in San Juan
> Del RIo, Durango in 1689. The marriage record stated he was from
> Somberette, Zacatecas. I guess he was he was born about 1660. I
> can't find church records for that period in Somberette. I suspect
> the family was French. I am looking for any information for the early
> colonial Somberette. I would like the names of several books just on
> Somberette. I know about the mines but outside of the Toolosa and
> Ybarra familes I do not know about other families living there. I
> know by looking at some immigration records, some Jacquez came from
> Flanders. If anyone can give me any clues or suggestions I would most
> appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> AyalaRobles
>
>
> --
> Esther A. Herold
>
>
> -------------- Original message from Latina1955@aol.com: --------------
>
>
>>
>> In a message dated 12/9/2007 4:50:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>> longsjourney@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> Esperanza, your reference to Valle de Guadalupe, Michoacan, is that
>> the same
>> one that is part of Chilchota Michoacan. Do you have specific
>> surnames?
>> I've traced my Gutierrez/ Alvarez del Castillo to there back to abt
>> 1620 and
>> wondered if by any chance it's the same Valle de Guadalupe.
>> thank you, Linda in Everett
>>
>> By the way, my ancestors in Jerez Zacatecas said they had French
>> blood too,
>> not true according to the records. Lot's of blue and green eyes, red,
>> blond and brown hair but not a Frenchman in the bunch!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes it is...although Chichota is at the other side of the mountain.
>> This is
>> my husband's side of the family ---surnames include Valdez,
>> Oropeza,Ortiz,
>> Duarte, Escobar, Madrigal, and Rocha. There is a large Alvarez family
>> that is
>> married with some of my husband's cousins. Remember that the French
>> were not
>> very embraced after they were supposed to leave...therefore, those
>> that did
>> stay, stayed in small village often changing their names. The family
>> Escobar
>> is said to have the French ancestry. They intermarried the locals,
>> and all
>> that is left is the legacy of their word.
>>
>> My aunt also insisted that we had French blood (from Tlaltenango).
>> However
>> I did not put much credence into this, as she had virtually no
>> contact with
>> the relatives left in Mexico - she may have heard this from my
>> grandparents..but in those days, grandparents did not talk about back
>> home....they fled
>> Mexico because my grandfather had killed someone of importance during
>> the civil
>> war.
>>
>> She (my aunt) may have put this together because in our family we
>> have some
>> very fair skinned individuals....in my own family, I had two brothers
>> (one
>> died) who had sandy brown hair and bright blue eyes (both needed
>> picks to comb
>> their hair). The rest of us look either extremely "indio" or like any
>> other
>> Mexican one would see throughout Mexico.
>>
>> Esperanza
>>
>>
>>
>> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's
>> hottest
>> products.
>> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?
>> NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

Comment

Pardon my spelling and mistyping but the Mormon site is still not showing anything on San Juan Bautista (Sombrerete, Zacatecas) before 1678. I need birth and marriages records before 1670. I have run out of records.
I know it is very difficult in most areas of Mexico to research anything earlier that 1700s. I am hoping to benefit from the experiences of more experienced researchers,

Thanks,
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from M.Vallazza : --------------

> Perhaps the reason you can't find the records is because the town is
> spelled Sombrerete. Marge:)
> On Dec 10, 2007, at 11:02 AM, eaherold@att.net wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have traced my La Riva line to Tomas Jaquez who married in San Juan
> > Del RIo, Durango in 1689. The marriage record stated he was from
> > Somberette, Zacatecas. I guess he was he was born about 1660. I
> > can't find church records for that period in Somberette. I suspect
> > the family was French. I am looking for any information for the early
> > colonial Somberette. I would like the names of several books just on
> > Somberette. I know about the mines but outside of the Toolosa and
> > Ybarra familes I do not know about other families living there. I
> > know by looking at some immigration records, some Jacquez came from
> > Flanders. If anyone can give me any clues or suggestions I would most
> > appreciate it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > AyalaRobles
> >
> >
> > --
> > Esther A. Herold
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message from Latina1955@aol.com: --------------
> >
> >
> >>
> >> In a message dated 12/9/2007 4:50:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> >> longsjourney@yahoo.com writes:
> >>
> >> Esperanza, your reference to Valle de Guadalupe, Michoacan, is that
> >> the same
> >> one that is part of Chilchota Michoacan. Do you have specific
> >> surnames?
> >> I've traced my Gutierrez/ Alvarez del Castillo to there back to abt
> >> 1620 and
> >> wondered if by any chance it's the same Valle de Guadalupe.
> >> thank you, Linda in Everett
> >>
> >> By the way, my ancestors in Jerez Zacatecas said they had French
> >> blood too,
> >> not true according to the records. Lot's of blue and green eyes, red,
> >> blond and brown hair but not a Frenchman in the bunch!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes it is...although Chichota is at the other side of the mountain.
> >> This is
> >> my husband's side of the family ---surnames include Valdez,
> >> Oropeza,Ortiz,
> >> Duarte, Escobar, Madrigal, and Rocha. There is a large Alvarez family
> >> that is
> >> married with some of my husband's cousins. Remember that the French
> >> were not
> >> very embraced after they were supposed to leave...therefore, those
> >> that did
> >> stay, stayed in small village often changing their names. The family
> >> Escobar
> >> is said to have the French ancestry. They intermarried the locals,
> >> and all
> >> that is left is the legacy of their word.
> >>
> >> My aunt also insisted that we had French blood (from Tlaltenango).
> >> However
> >> I did not put much credence into this, as she had virtually no
> >> contact with
> >> the relatives left in Mexico - she may have heard this from my
> >> grandparents..but in those days, grandparents did not talk about back
> >> home....they fled
> >> Mexico because my grandfather had killed someone of importance during
> >> the civil
> >> war.
> >>
> >> She (my aunt) may have put this together because in our family we
> >> have some
> >> very fair skinned individuals....in my own family, I had two brothers
> >> (one
> >> died) who had sandy brown hair and bright blue eyes (both needed
> >> picks to comb
> >> their hair). The rest of us look either extremely "indio" or like any
> >> other
> >> Mexican one would see throughout Mexico.
> >>
> >> Esperanza
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's
> >> hottest
> >> products.
> >> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?
> >> NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
>

Comment

San Juan Bautista is the name of a parrish or the name of a town or a ranch?

eaherold@att.net escribió: Pardon my spelling and mistyping but the Mormon site is still not showing anything on San Juan Bautista (Sombrerete, Zacatecas) before 1678. I need birth and marriages records before 1670. I have run out of records.
I know it is very difficult in most areas of Mexico to research anything earlier that 1700s. I am hoping to benefit from the experiences of more experienced researchers,

Thanks,
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from M.Vallazza : --------------

> Perhaps the reason you can't find the records is because the town is
> spelled Sombrerete. Marge:)
> On Dec 10, 2007, at 11:02 AM, eaherold@att.net wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have traced my La Riva line to Tomas Jaquez who married in San Juan
> > Del RIo, Durango in 1689. The marriage record stated he was from
> > Somberette, Zacatecas. I guess he was he was born about 1660. I
> > can't find church records for that period in Somberette. I suspect
> > the family was French. I am looking for any information for the early
> > colonial Somberette. I would like the names of several books just on
> > Somberette. I know about the mines but outside of the Toolosa and
> > Ybarra familes I do not know about other families living there. I
> > know by looking at some immigration records, some Jacquez came from
> > Flanders. If anyone can give me any clues or suggestions I would most
> > appreciate it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > AyalaRobles
> >
> >
> > --
> > Esther A. Herold
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message from Latina1955@aol.com: --------------
> >
> >
> >>
> >> In a message dated 12/9/2007 4:50:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> >> longsjourney@yahoo.com writes:
> >>
> >> Esperanza, your reference to Valle de Guadalupe, Michoacan, is that
> >> the same
> >> one that is part of Chilchota Michoacan. Do you have specific
> >> surnames?
> >> I've traced my Gutierrez/ Alvarez del Castillo to there back to abt
> >> 1620 and
> >> wondered if by any chance it's the same Valle de Guadalupe.
> >> thank you, Linda in Everett
> >>
> >> By the way, my ancestors in Jerez Zacatecas said they had French
> >> blood too,
> >> not true according to the records. Lot's of blue and green eyes, red,
> >> blond and brown hair but not a Frenchman in the bunch!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes it is...although Chichota is at the other side of the mountain.
> >> This is
> >> my husband's side of the family ---surnames include Valdez,
> >> Oropeza,Ortiz,
> >> Duarte, Escobar, Madrigal, and Rocha. There is a large Alvarez family
> >> that is
> >> married with some of my husband's cousins. Remember that the French
> >> were not
> >> very embraced after they were supposed to leave...therefore, those
> >> that did
> >> stay, stayed in small village often changing their names. The family
> >> Escobar
> >> is said to have the French ancestry. They intermarried the locals,
> >> and all
> >> that is left is the legacy of their word.
> >>
> >> My aunt also insisted that we had French blood (from Tlaltenango).
> >> However
> >> I did not put much credence into this, as she had virtually no
> >> contact with
> >> the relatives left in Mexico - she may have heard this from my
> >> grandparents..but in those days, grandparents did not talk about back
> >> home....they fled
> >> Mexico because my grandfather had killed someone of importance during
> >> the civil
> >> war.
> >>
> >> She (my aunt) may have put this together because in our family we
> >> have some
> >> very fair skinned individuals....in my own family, I had two brothers
> >> (one
> >> died) who had sandy brown hair and bright blue eyes (both needed
> >> picks to comb
> >> their hair). The rest of us look either extremely "indio" or like any
> >> other
> >> Mexican one would see throughout Mexico.
> >>
> >> Esperanza
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's
> >> hottest
> >> products.
> >> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?
> >> NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
>

Comment

To make a note I remember learning this lesson! Once you reach the "end: of your years for a parish make sure to look around the surrounding parishes or even the huge ones! I have ancestors living in Fresnillo, Zac baptizing their children in Guadalajara! Quite far! 3-hour drive. People traveled a lot back in those days. -Hope this helps. -Daniel Mendez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_11…

Comment

I think traveling to major cities like from Fresnillo to Guadalajara
(about 175 miles) was a major adventure. At 20 miles per day (guess at
mileage per day) would mean about 1 week going, staying for a while and
coming back a week. Sure put a hole in a month. I would guess they
gathered ALL the children that needed to be baptized to do them all at
once.

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

Daniel Mendez wrote:
> To make a note I remember learning this lesson! Once you reach the "end: of your years for a parish make sure to look around the surrounding parishes or even the huge ones! I have ancestors living in Fresnillo, Zac baptizing their children in Guadalajara! Quite far! 3-hour drive. People traveled a lot back in those days. -Hope this helps. -Daniel Mendez del Camino
> _________________________________________________________________
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_11…

Comment

This is only speculation... but I don't think that people traveled to distant cities to have their children baptized. More than likely, it was the priest who travelled to the smaller towns. So even though the priest was from Guadalajara and he recorded the baptizism in Guadalajara, he probably performed the baptizism locally.

Just my two centavos...
Angie

Comment

Angie,

I believe you are right.? with the Comfirmations they waited for the Bishop (or could it of been the cardinal?) to come to town, thats why when you look at comfirmations they are of all ages and the same date.....

just my 2 cents..

Stella

-----Original Message-----
From: aajay1073
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:44 am
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Travelling Priest

This is only speculation... but I don't think that people traveled to distant
cities to have their children baptized. More than likely, it was the priest who
travelled to the smaller towns. So even though the priest was from Guadalajara
and he recorded the baptizism in Guadalajara, he probably performed the
baptizism locally.

Just my two centavos...
Angie

Comment

It was always the bishops who confirmed people in their pastoral visits to
all the parishes of their diócesis. There were no cardinals in Mexico until
the 20th century.

Hector

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de
sjlstar@aol.com
Enviado el: Martes, 11 de Diciembre de 2007 06:29 p.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Travelling Priest

Angie,

I believe you are right.? with the Comfirmations they waited for the Bishop
(or could it of been the cardinal?) to come to town, thats why when you look
at comfirmations they are of all ages and the same date.....

just my 2 cents..

Stella

-----Original Message-----
From: aajay1073
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:44 am
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Travelling Priest

This is only speculation... but I don't think that people traveled to
distant
cities to have their children baptized. More than likely, it was the priest
who
travelled to the smaller towns. So even though the priest was from
Guadalajara
and he recorded the baptizism in Guadalajara, he probably performed the
baptizism locally.

Just my two centavos...
Angie

Comment

Hello all!

Joseph, you are right. My grandfather, Pedro Gomez Casillas born in 1893 in Juchipila, Zac, was an "arriero". He took merchandise and people between Juchipila and Aguascalientes, Guadalajara, etc by donkey or mule. My dad says it took them 3 days from Juchi to Guadalajara and close to a week to Zacatecas. Interesting how lazy we have gotten :-)

Another thing to remember about any record is that sometimes the godparents alone took the children to baptize... I've come across many mistakes due to that (wrong mom's last name is a major one for me, as well as some info on grandparents).

Saludos from San Antonio!!

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Puentes

Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:19:49
To:research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Travelling from Fresnillo to Guadalajara:
was-San Juan Bautista

I think traveling to major cities like from Fresnillo to Guadalajara
(about 175 miles) was a major adventure. At 20 miles per day (guess at
mileage per day) would mean about 1 week going, staying for a while and
coming back a week. Sure put a hole in a month. I would guess they
gathered ALL the children that needed to be baptized to do them all at
once.

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

Daniel Mendez wrote:
> To make a note I remember learning this lesson! Once you reach the "end: of your years for a parish make sure to look around the surrounding parishes or even the huge ones! I have ancestors living in Fresnillo, Zac baptizing their children in Guadalajara! Quite far! 3-hour drive. People traveled a lot back in those days. -Hope this helps. -Daniel Mendez del Camino
> _________________________________________________________________
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_11…

Published by hfaizcorbe – Mon, 2007-12-10 11:00 | Permalink

Comment

Jaquez is a patronymic of Jacome or Jaime, it means the son of Jacome (an
old Spanish version of James) or of Jaime.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de
eaherold@att.net
Enviado el: Lunes, 10 de Diciembre de 2007 11:03 a.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colonial Somberette and Jacqez family

Hi,

I have traced my La Riva line to Tomas Jaquez who married in San Juan Del
RIo, Durango in 1689. The marriage record stated he was from Somberette,
Zacatecas. I guess he was he was born about 1660. I can't find church
records for that period in Somberette. I suspect the family was French. I
am looking for any information for the early colonial Somberette. I would
like the names of several books just on Somberette. I know about the mines
but outside of the Toolosa and Ybarra familes I do not know about other
families living there. I know by looking at some immigration records, some
Jacquez came from Flanders. If anyone can give me any clues or suggestions I
would most appreciate it.

Thanks,

AyalaRobles

--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Latina1955@aol.com: --------------

>
> In a message dated 12/9/2007 4:50:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> longsjourney@yahoo.com writes:
>
> Esperanza, your reference to Valle de Guadalupe, Michoacan, is that the
same
> one that is part of Chilchota Michoacan. Do you have specific surnames?
> I've traced my Gutierrez/ Alvarez del Castillo to there back to abt 1620
and
> wondered if by any chance it's the same Valle de Guadalupe.
> thank you, Linda in Everett
>
> By the way, my ancestors in Jerez Zacatecas said they had French blood
too,
> not true according to the records. Lot's of blue and green eyes, red,
> blond and brown hair but not a Frenchman in the bunch!
>
>
>
>
> Yes it is...although Chichota is at the other side of the mountain. This
is
> my husband's side of the family ---surnames include Valdez, Oropeza,Ortiz,

> Duarte, Escobar, Madrigal, and Rocha. There is a large Alvarez family that
is
> married with some of my husband's cousins. Remember that the French were
not
> very embraced after they were supposed to leave...therefore, those that
did
> stay, stayed in small village often changing their names. The family
Escobar
> is said to have the French ancestry. They intermarried the locals, and all

> that is left is the legacy of their word.
>
> My aunt also insisted that we had French blood (from Tlaltenango). However

> I did not put much credence into this, as she had virtually no contact
with
> the relatives left in Mexico - she may have heard this from my
> grandparents..but in those days, grandparents did not talk about back
> home....they fled
> Mexico because my grandfather had killed someone of importance during the
civil
> war.
>
> She (my aunt) may have put this together because in our family we have
some
> very fair skinned individuals....in my own family, I had two brothers (one

> died) who had sandy brown hair and bright blue eyes (both needed picks to
comb
> their hair). The rest of us look either extremely "indio" or like any
other
> Mexican one would see throughout Mexico.
>
> Esperanza
>
>
>
> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's
hottest
> products.
> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

Comment

Hi I was wondering if you had located anymore information on the Jaquez line? My great grandmother Maria Refugio Jaquez was from Sombrerete and I've traced back to the early 1700's so far.

Mexican map site - Jalisco

Published by Brenda –
Forums
Genealogy Research

    Within the last 2-3 months, someone posted a message which included the address of a Mexican governmental website that has online historical maps of various parts of Mexico.  I can't find that sit

Comments

Published by W Johnston – Sun, 2019-06-16 17:00 | Permalink

Comment

The URL is http://w2.siap.sagarpa.gob.mx/mapoteca
I was looking for ranchos not far from where you are looking, specifically Sauz de los Marquez. The search is a bit frustrating. I used specific keywords to try to find things. It really depends on what the map title words are. The map may contain a lot more than just what the title words include.
The bottom line is that I spent a lot of time and did not succeed on the ranchos. But I did find some very interesting maps of the wider area.
    Wesley

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 00:53:35 +0000 (UTC)
From: Brenda Perkins
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Mexican map site - Jalisco
Message-ID: <1017608556.1854038.1560646415220@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

? ? Within the last 2-3 months, someone posted a message which included the address of a Mexican governmental website that has online historical maps of various parts of Mexico.? I can't find that site, and, as I recall, when I did visit it, I couldn't find the maps I was looking for.? Specifically, I'm looking for the hacienda/rancho maps of northeast Jalisco near Encarnacion de Diaz, the ranchos southwest of Jerez, Zacatecas, and the rural areas around Durango, Durango.

Can someone please direct me in the right direction?
Thanks.Brenda

sagrada mitra for Michoacan

Published by erlong –
Forums
Genealogy Research

.

Comments

Comment

Unfortunately, we haven't indexed that many films from the latter part of the 1800s. We're focusing on the colonial era 1500s-1820s for now. Should that change and we find the dispensa you are looking for, I'll let you know.

Yes, taking a look at your family tree, we do share ancestors. To begin with, Valencia. You also share some Munguia ancestors with my wife who's paternal roots are in Tamazula.

If you'd like some more information about your Valencia roots, please let me know at:

daniel_serna@hotmail.com

I would be more than happy to share some Valencia-related dispensas and such.

Best,

Daniel Serna Valencia

Published by dserna1 – Wed, 2019-06-12 14:15 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Erlinda,

The link you provided contains the core of the documents that were written up by the "Antiguo Obispado de Michoacan". They not only contain matrimonial dispensations but all sorts of other documents. As you've found out, there's no real order (beyond chronological) as to what the films contain nor can you find the towns you are looking for in each film. I, along with a lot of wonderful volunteers, have been indexing some of the films. You can see the indexes on valldoliddispensas.com.

I have done quite a bit of research and have built an ancestry.com tree that contains dispensas related to my ancestors that were from the same towns that you have called out. If you don't mind sharing what couple you are looking the dispensa for, I might have the information already that I can share with you.

Let me know,

Daniel Serna Valencia

Comment

.
Thank you. My maternal line is from Chilchota, Tangancicuaro and Angamacutiro and Zamora.
The line I am trying to take back is Fernandez because his wife Ygnacia Jesus Barbosa comes from hija natural. This is the sister of my gr-gr grandmother Martina Socorro Fernandez.

marriage information recorded abt Sept? 1879 in Tangancicuaro, Michoacan
Ramon Angeles from Tangancicuaro age 28
widower of Maria Vicenta Garcia buried in Tangancicuaro 8 years
with Maria Melquiades Fernandez from Tangancicuaro age 17
parents: Jose Maria Fernandez deceased and Maria Ygnacia Barbosa
marriage dispensation 2nd degree de la linea colateral
granted 8 Nov 1879 in Zamora
source: 640956 film
page 387 Familysearch online
.
I did go through the 1879 dispensation on the Morelia dispensations and did not find any records from the areas I'm searching so would appreciate any link that would help me.

My maternal Gutierrez/Alvarez del Castillo line is from Chilchota and eventually moved to Tamazula, Jalisco but I did not find any records that called for a dispensation.

Linda Castanon-Long

Comment

.
Thank you! I did NOT read the films you shared.. I see Chilchota listed and Gertrudis Alvarez del Castillo is my family and my Mendez ancestors from Zamora/Valladolid may be included also..

I read from the wrong list for marriages
Thank you so much for sharing
by the way, I think we share family..this is the link to my Mother Dolores Gutierrez' family from Chilchota, Michoacan

Linda Castanon-Long

Comment

Hi Linda,

Thanks for sharing this! Ramón and Melaquíades had a daughter named María Lucía Altagracia baptized on 7 March 1890, born on 3 Mar 1890 in Zamora. Her madrina was María del Carmen Fernández, a possible aunt of ours--I would figure, I don't have her in my archives. If they were dispensed at segundo grado de consanguinidad, they would, in effect be, first cousins. I don't think we would have much trouble reconstructing this tree, even without the dispensa.

Here is the link to the baptism record for Lucía:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5Y9H-XC?i=49&cc=1883388

Ramón Angeles and Vicenta García had at least the following children, all in Tangancícuaro de Arista:
María Luisa Felicitas baptized on 10 Jul 1871 in Tangancícuaro,
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-PL9C-NV?i=535&cc=18833…

José Francisco Luis de Jesús baptized 5 Dec 1865
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-PL9H-DV?i=335&cc=18833…

José Felipe Florentino de Jesús baptized on 13 Oct 1867
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-PL94-CF?i=390&cc=18833…

It is a downer that in the mid-late XIX century Obispado de Michoacán parishes rarely mention the grandparents--this would have facilitated research tremendously.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Cemetery in Cavillo, Aguascalientes, Mexico

Published by jessgallardo –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Many of my husbands ancestors were born and most likely died in Calvillo. I doubt that I will be able to visit in my lifetime. Are there any records or information on all burials in the cemetery?

Comments

Published by gaby.barbosa – Sat, 2019-06-15 15:47 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Jess, when I researched my ancestors I found that ancestry was a great tool as they have death records from the Civil Registration (after 1850s) indexed, meaning you can do searches by name. However, the church records on deaths are not indexed and the search gets more complicated that way. I hope this can be helpful, not sure if that's what you were looking for

Here is a link to the church records in Calvillo
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=M6Q6-F3D%3A64894801…

This one is the civil registration
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=M6H6-NMQ%3A35588800…

Comment

I have found most of my info on familysearch.org which has been amazing. I am not finding a whole lot of death records though. I love to walk old cemeteries, and would be interested to see if my ancestors are buried in the cemetery with legible stones. There aren't any stones transcribed from the cemetery that i can find.

De Uribe family Jalisco

Published by gaby.barbosa –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola Prim@s:

For those investigating DE URIBE, MARTIN DEL CAMPO, GARCIA DE ALBA families, hope you find this useful

Dispensa matrimonio Antonio Michel & Josefa Uribe / Ejutla

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