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By gloriad648 |

For Paul Gomez and those researching Bartholome RENDON,
I came across a one page document about him in the Pilot Site:
Mex Catholic Church Records, Images Only
Ags Ags Sagrario Info Mat 1710, Image 36/94

En la Villa de la Assump.on de Aguascalientes
11 Feb 1710
Bartholome RENDON, español
originario y vezino de Theocaltiche
no parents given
y Maria MASSIAS, española,
originaria y vezina desta juris. en el Saus
hija legitima de Marcos MASSIAS VALADES
y de Maria RUIZ DESPARZA
Bartholome was amonestado en Theocaltiche with no impediment.
"los case ....y vele en tiempo debido"
No padrinos or witnesses were listed.

On the next page, the back of the document has the date 24 Feb 1710
and the name Agustin RENDON.

On 18 Apr 1710, Bartholome was a witness for the marriage information of his brother-in-law Marcos MASIAS-VALADES, where he is listed as Bartholome RENDON, español, age 40, vecino de esta feligrecia, and that he has known the prospective bride and groom for six years. From Ags Ags Sag Info Mat 1710-1713, Image 43, 44, 45/328

Hope this gives you some leads.

Gloria Delgado

Online Status

migueltran

14 years 4 months ago

Permalink

There was a very special situation to consider the children of "padres no conocidos"

As you maybe know the enslavement was passed on to offspring only by the maternal route, ie the children of a slave man were not slaves if the mother was not. but the children of a slave woman had no doubt his destiny as slaves.
Since mid-1600, practically slaves were destined for spinsterhood for obvious reasons, however many slaves were sons and daughters, and a common action in these cases was that the mother left the newborn exhibitors, with the hope that it would collected and not recognized as a slave, which is not always true, as some children of "Padres no conocidos" were recorded in the baptismal register as a slave to Mr "X", when it was known that one of the slaves of a certain Mr was pregnant and could not miss the opportunity to increase their assets: a slave was worth 800 pesos gold (

Mario Gomez Mata has a interesting book about the slavement in Santa Maria de los Lagos called "la esclavitud en Lagos y los Afro-laguenses"

Miguel Beltran

Online Status

gpf13

14 years 4 months ago

Permalink

Paul

There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for Aguascalientes, Sagrario).

In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to image 36.

Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Thank you, George! I had the "Image 36" Record, but not the first Record
cited in your e-mail. "Padres no conosidos" in my opinion are the 3 most
dreaded words to family history researchers. Was he born out of wedlock, or
did he not want to recognize his parents? Would he have been compelled to
make this information known to the officiating priest?

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
gpf13@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 7:42 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria

Paul

There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for
Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for
Aguascalientes, Sagrario).

In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to
image 36.

Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Paul - That is a very interesting take on "padres no conosidos". I always
assumed that it referred to an orphaned child who's parents were not known.
It never occurred to me that it could have been information that was
intentionally withheld. I guess it could be possible but not easy to prove.
And yes - they are the three most dreaded words for a genealogist.

Interesting.
-Angelina-

I have found parents even after the dreaded "padres no conocidos" so do not give up hope. I did this by researching for siblings and then looking at their data. Doing it this way I have found both sets of parents but sometimes only one parent is confirmed and there is a question of who the other parent is. I have found that many excellent, highly respected genealogists have made the mistake of automatically assuming the second parent when later it comes out that the child was from a second marriage or out of marriage relationship. Actually, I know I have made this error before and am very careful now when I look at my sources.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Paul J Gomez"
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 10:12:54
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria

Thank you, George! I had the "Image 36" Record, but not the first Record
cited in your e-mail. "Padres no conosidos" in my opinion are the 3 most
dreaded words to family history researchers. Was he born out of wedlock, or
did he not want to recognize his parents? Would he have been compelled to
make this information known to the officiating priest?

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of
gpf13@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 7:42 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria

Paul

There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for
Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for
Aguascalientes, Sagrario).

In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to
image 36.

Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Also another take on Padres no conocidos: It could also mean the priest did not know who the

parents were, maybe they were out of his parish. I have an experience with Padres no conocidos,

where one records says padres no concidos, but because they were veiled in another location,

his parents were stated saying he was originario del Parral (Hidalgo del Parral), Chihuahua,

as stated I was able to locate my ancestors baptismal record of "padres no concidos in Parral).

Just my experience. The Rendon/Gomez Rendon family is from Teocaltiche, but not sure why

Bartolome's parents weren't mentioned, he is espanol thats for sure. You just have to keep looking

around for clues, another clue would be to find a Bartolome Rendon baptized around there, maybe

look for his death record.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
> Paul
>
> There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for Aguascalientes, Sagrario).
>
> In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to image 36.
>
> Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA

My Lugo and texeda ancestors are listed in Jalos records as padres no conocidos by the priest with the priest giving the reason that they were originally from out of the area of jalos - and from Theocaltiche.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:23:15
To: Patty Hoyos
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria

Also another take on Padres no conocidos: It could also mean the priest did not know who the

parents were, maybe they were out of his parish. I have an experience with Padres no conocidos,

where one records says padres no concidos, but because they were veiled in another location,

his parents were stated saying he was originario del Parral (Hidalgo del Parral), Chihuahua,

as stated I was able to locate my ancestors baptismal record of "padres no concidos in Parral).

Just my experience. The Rendon/Gomez Rendon family is from Teocaltiche, but not sure why

Bartolome's parents weren't mentioned, he is espanol thats for sure. You just have to keep looking

around for clues, another clue would be to find a Bartolome Rendon baptized around there, maybe

look for his death record.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
> Paul
>
> There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for Aguascalientes, Sagrario).
>
> In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to image 36.
>
> Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA

We also have to look at the time era, where marriages were the most important

even because it could ties certain families together etc. Maybe his parents did not

approve and like someone prevoous stated did not want to recognize his parents.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
> Paul
>
> There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for Aguascalientes, Sagrario).
>
> In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to image 36.
>
> Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA

Something cool, Bartolome Rendon did sign that document so we have his

signature! Interesting enough the document states "como mas aia lugar en

derecho" not sure what this means but havent seen this before. Maybe

Bartoome did not name his parents. I would bet money his parents

could be Francisco Gomez Rendon and Maria (Alvarez de Luna) aka Maria de Luna.

These were the patriarchs of the Rendon family in Los Altos. But obviously

we need to work on this a bit more, most of the conections of early Aguascalientes

marriage do not mentioned parents many are by this manner, by narrowing down

things and other such menthods.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
> Paul
>
> There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for Aguascalientes, Sagrario).
>
> In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to image 36.
>
> Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA

What does "que no resulto impedimiento" mean?

Bartolome Rendon "que no resulto impedimiento en Teocaltiche,

so they married in Aguascalientes because the priest in Teocaltiche

would not marry them there?

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
> Paul
>
> There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for Aguascalientes, Sagrario).
>
> In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to image 36.
>
> Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA

I think it means that there was no impediment, no reason for the couple to not get married, i. e. no one objected to the union for any reason, so the marriage ceremony proceeded.

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

> From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:47:35 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
>
> What does "que no resulto impedimiento" mean?
>
> Bartolome Rendon "que no resulto impedimiento en Teocaltiche,
>
> so they married in Aguascalientes because the priest in Teocaltiche
>
> would not marry them there?
>
>
>
> Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
>
>
>
>
> > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > From: gpf13@aol.com
> > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for Aguascalientes, Sagrario).
> >
> > In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to image 36.
> >
> > Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."
> >
> > George Fulton
> > Pleasanton, CA
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL…

I think its just interesting that then no one objected in Teocaltiche and they married in Aguascalientes.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:52:17 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
>
> I think it means that there was no impediment, no reason for the couple to not get married, i. e. no one objected to the union for any reason, so the marriage ceremony proceeded.
>
>
>
> Emilie
>
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:47:35 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
> >
> >
> > What does "que no resulto impedimiento" mean?
> >
> > Bartolome Rendon "que no resulto impedimiento en Teocaltiche,
> >
> > so they married in Aguascalientes because the priest in Teocaltiche
> >
> > would not marry them there?
> >
> >
> >
> > Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > From: gpf13@aol.com
> > > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for Aguascalientes, Sagrario).
> > >
> > > In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to image 36.
> > >
> > > Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."
> > >
> > > George Fulton
> > > Pleasanton, CA
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
> > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL…
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Actually maybe there was an impedimiento elsewhere but not in teocaltiche and went there for approval. Then once they rec'd approval married elsewhere.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 13:01:28
To: Patty Hoyos
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria

I think its just interesting that then no one objected in Teocaltiche and they married in Aguascalientes.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:52:17 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
>
> I think it means that there was no impediment, no reason for the couple to not get married, i. e. no one objected to the union for any reason, so the marriage ceremony proceeded.
>
>
>
> Emilie
>
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > From: mendezdelcamino@live.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:47:35 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
> >
> >
> > What does "que no resulto impedimiento" mean?
> >
> > Bartolome Rendon "que no resulto impedimiento en Teocaltiche,
> >
> > so they married in Aguascalientes because the priest in Teocaltiche
> >
> > would not marry them there?
> >
> >
> >
> > Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> > > From: gpf13@aol.com
> > > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for Aguascalientes, Sagrario).
> > >
> > > In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to image 36.
> > >
> > > Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."
> > >
> > > George Fulton
> > > Pleasanton, CA
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
> > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL…
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Que no resulto impedimiento would mean that there was no reason that would block the marriage and therefore could marry. They may have married in Aguasclientes for other reasons.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:47:35
To: Patty Hoyos
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria

What does "que no resulto impedimiento" mean?

Bartolome Rendon "que no resulto impedimiento en Teocaltiche,

so they married in Aguascalientes because the priest in Teocaltiche

would not marry them there?

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:41:59 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RENDON, Bartholome = MASIAS VALADES, Maria
>
> Paul
>
> There are two entries for this couple in the Matrimonial Investigations for Aguascalientes (go to the Family Search Pilot website; church records for Aguascalientes, Sagrario).
>
> In the volume for 1676/1710, go to image 214; in the volume for 1710, go to image 36.
>
> Maria's parents are named, but Bartholome is "Padres no conosidos."
>
> George Fulton
> Pleasanton, CA

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