Online Status
With many stories they can get jumbled through the generations. My father's aunt married into the de Alba family from San Juan, so I have done a little research. I have a Jose Teodoro de Alba baptized 02 Apr 1854 in San Juan whose parents were Gabino & Inez de Alba. Gabino's mother was a Gonzales: Ma Dolores Gonzales. His father was Ramon de Alba, so there still may be some truth to the story. In my research as I told Steve, some stories turn out to be true, and some not so true. :)
Irma Gomez Gtz
N. California
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Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 3:07 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Research Digest, Vol 84, Issue 12
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DAILY DIGEST
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Alba family (Joseph Puentes)
2. Re: Alba family (Armando)
3. Re: Alba family (Erlinda Castanon-Long)
4. Re: Alba family (Pat Corbera)
5. Re: Alba family (Pat Corbera)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:36:57 -0500
From: "Joseph Puentes"
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alba family
Message-ID: <005401cdf200$06bc54e0$1434fea0$@rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Not the same year or mother's surname but same date and month in San Juan:
name: Jose Teodoro Alba Alba
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 02 Apr 1854
baptism/christening place: SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS,JALISCO,MEXICO
father's name: Gabino Alba
mother's name: Ynes Alba
indexing project (batch) number: C60340-2
system origin: Mexico-ODM
source film number: 220661
reference number:
Citing this Record
"Mexico, Baptisms, 1560-1950," index, FamilySearch
(https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J9Y9-LPX : accessed 14 Jan 2013),
Jose Teodoro Alba Alba, 02 Apr 1854; citing SAN JUAN DE LOS
LAGOS,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 220661.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Steve Compton
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:41 PM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alba family
>
> I'm trying to find more information about the family of my great
grandfather. His name
> was Teodoro Alba. Most of the information we have about his origins come
from stories
> passed down from him to his children, so they should be regarded as more
legend than
> fact. This includes that he was born in or near Guadalajara around 1856 or
1857. His
> father, whose surname was Alba, had stowed away on a ship from Spain to
Mexico. His
> mother's surname was Gonzales and she was of Mayan descent. He had several
siblings,
> but we don't know their names. At some point the father left and returned
to Spain.
> Teodoro joined the Mexican army while still a teenager, deserted and
crossed into Texas
> sometime between 1875 and 1880. There he became an accomplished cowboy. He
> gradually adapted the American spelling of Alby.
>
>
>
> He married Mary Ellen Marks in Bonham, Texas on October 8, 1891. They had
7 children,
> 4 of whom lived. His wife Mary Ellen died shortly after 1910.
> Around 1920, he and his children settled in Bixby, Oklahoma where they
came to own
> several businesses. He was affectionately known to everyone in this small
town as "Dad"
> Alby. His citizenship paper in 1938 describes him as 81 years of age; a
white male of
> medium complexion; blue eyes; grey hair; five feet, three inches in height
and widowed.
> He died in Bixby on December 18, 1943.
>
>
>
> Some in the family believe was actually born in San Juan de los Lagos. I
have found a
> birth record for a Teodoro Alva Terrones born on April 2, 1857 in that
location.
>
>
>
> Any leads would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> scompton
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:05:52 -0600
From: Armando
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alba family
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Teodoro Alva Terrones doesn't line up with your great grandfather saying
that his mother's surname was Gonz?lez. What does line up is that the
mother of Teodoro Alva Terrones has relatives whose baptisms show them to
be indios. There weren't any Mayas in Jalisco but your great grandfather
likely meant Mexican Indians.
Teodoro Alva Terrones was the great grandson of Juan Jos? de Alba and
Antonia Gertrudis de Esparza y Fuentes. Juan Jos? de Alba was an hijo
natural of Clara de Alba. Therefore the paternal surname of Juan Jos? de
Alba is not known.
Jose Teodoro Alba Alba baptized 2 Apr 1854 doesn't line up with any of the
maternal surnames being Gonz?lez nor does it line up with the mother being
Indian nor does it line up with the age of your great grandfather. All four
of the grandparents of Jose Teodoro Alba were documented as espa?oles
meaning Jose Teodoro Alba Alba they didn't have recent ancestors that were
indios.
No matter what, if you don't have the first and last name of both of the
parents of your great grandfather there is no way to know for sure who his
parents were. There are many baptisms that are missing from the records.
You could ask a relative that descends through the paternal line to get a
37 marker Y-DNA test. The two of you could also get a Family Finder test.
However, there are no guarantees that you would find anything definitive.
For those tests to work to your advantage other people with documented
trees would have had to have taken the tests. However, it does seem to be
one of the few options that you have left to try.
Regards,
Armando
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Steve Compton wrote:
> I'm trying to find more information about the family of my great
> grandfather. His name was Teodoro Alba. Most of the information we have
> about his origins come from stories passed down from him to his children,
> so
> they should be regarded as more legend than fact. This includes that he was
> born in or near Guadalajara around 1856 or 1857. His father, whose surname
> was Alba, had stowed away on a ship from Spain to Mexico. His mother's
> surname was Gonzales and she was of Mayan descent. He had several siblings,
> but we don't know their names. At some point the father left and returned
> to
> Spain. Teodoro joined the Mexican army while still a teenager, deserted and
> crossed into Texas sometime between 1875 and 1880. There he became an
> accomplished cowboy. He gradually adapted the American spelling of Alby.
>
>
>
> He married Mary Ellen Marks in Bonham, Texas on October 8, 1891. They had 7
> children, 4 of whom lived. His wife Mary Ellen died shortly after 1910.
> Around 1920, he and his children settled in Bixby, Oklahoma where they came
> to own several businesses. He was affectionately known to everyone in this
> small town as "Dad" Alby. His citizenship paper in 1938 describes him as 81
> years of age; a white male of medium complexion; blue eyes; grey hair; five
> feet, three inches in height and widowed. He died in Bixby on December 18,
> 1943.
>
>
>
> Some in the family believe was actually born in San Juan de los Lagos. I
> have found a birth record for a Teodoro Alva Terrones born on April 2, 1857
> in that location.
>
>
>
> Any leads would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> scompton
>
>
>
Teodoro de Alba Update
Thanks to Joseph, Armando and everyone who has offered advice. Nuestros Ranchos has been the friendliest, most helpful genealogy group I've found.
I believe there is enough evidence now to say that my g-grandfather Teodoro de Alba was born Nov. 8 or 9, 1858 in Palos-Altos. His parents were Jose Anastacio de Alba and Mariana Gonzales. The paternal grandparents were Jose Antonio de Alba and Maria Feliciana Jaime. Maternal Grandparents were Reyes Gonzales and San Juana Guzman. Teodoro's paternal great grandparents were Rafael de Alba and Maria Gertrudis Cuellar; and Ignacio Jaime and Maria Eufracia Gonzales.
Teodoro had two older brothers Jose Miguel de Alba born 7 May 1854 and Francisco de Alba born abt. 1857. Teodoro married Isabel Guerrero on 7 June 1876. Francisco was married to Marta Garcia on 3 Nov 1877.
The useful records I found were from San Juan de los Lagos, Encarn
Teodoro de Alba Update
Thanks to Joseph, Armando and everyone who has offered advice. Nuestros Ranchos has been the friendliest, most helpful genealogy group I've found.
I believe there is enough evidence now to say that my g-grandfather Teodoro de Alba was born Nov. 8 or 9, 1858 in Palos-Altos. His parents were Jose Anastacio de Alba and Mariana Gonzales. The paternal grandparents were Jose Antonio de Alba and Maria Feliciana Jaime. Maternal Grandparents were Reyes Gonzales and San Juana Guzman. Teodoro's paternal great grandparents were Rafael de Alba and Maria Gertrudis Cuellar; and Ignacio Jaime and Maria Eufracia Gonzales.
Teodoro had two older brothers Jose Miguel de Alba born 7 May 1854 and Francisco de Alba born abt. 1857. Teodoro married Isabel Guerrero on 7 June 1876. Francisco was married to Marta Garcia on 3 Nov 1877.
The useful records I found were from San Juan de los Lagos, Encarnacion, Ledesma, & Ojuelas. Please let me know if any of this triggers any new insights or ideas, and thanks again.
Research Digest, Vol 84, Issue 12
I also have ancestors that are de Alba through María de Alba Retamosa wife
of Francisco Cervantes Villaseñor and I have also studied the de Alba
family.
If you look at the baptisms of the parents of Inez de Alba you will see
that they are reported to be españoles. This does not match the story of
the mother being Indian. The age of the great grandfather of Mr. Compton
does not match with that of Jose Teodoro de Alba y de Alba.
The mother of Teodoro Alva Terrones has Indian ancestry and the age of
Teodoro Alva Terrones matches that of the great grandfather of Mr. Compton.
Teodoro Alva Terrones is more likely to the great grandfather of Mr.
Compton than Jose Teodoro de Alba y de Alba.
However, I have found a Teodoro Alba González that was 18 years old on 7
Jun 1876 when he married Isabel Guerrero. This means his birth year is
about 1858 which matches the birth year of Mr. Comptons great grandfather.
The maternal surname being González also matches. The mother of Teodoro
Alba González has mestizo ancestors which he could have considered to be
Indian based on their features.
The marriage record is at
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-54376-60?cc=1874591&wc…
There is a paper trail that shows that Teodoro Alba González was a direct
descendant of Joseph Alonso de Alba who was the first de Alba in Los Altos
born about 1579 and buried/deceased 26 Oct 1641 in Lagos de Moreno.
Since the paper trail is so good Y-DNA testing should be reliable if
another direct descendant of Joseph Alonso de Alba and a cousin of Mr.
Compton were to get Y-DNA tests.
Regards
Armando
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Gomezlucero, Irma
wrote:
> With many stories they can get jumbled through the generations. My
> father's aunt married into the de Alba family from San Juan, so I have done
> a little research. I have a Jose Teodoro de Alba baptized 02 Apr 1854 in
> San Juan whose parents were Gabino & Inez de Alba. Gabino's mother was a
> Gonzales: Ma Dolores Gonzales. His father was Ramon de Alba, so there
> still may be some truth to the story. In my research as I told Steve, some
> stories turn out to be true, and some not so true. :)
> Irma Gomez Gtz
> N. California
>
>
>
>
Research Digest, Vol 84, Issue 12
Thanks Armando,
I agree that the
This is very interesting for a couple of reasons. I had been looking at baptism records for and found this: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19053-16981-12?cc=1874591 &wc=12506238
It records the christening of Teodora de Alva, daughter of Anastasio de Alva and Mariana Gonsales, 20 days old on Nov 28, 1858. I was about to aks if anyone thought it was possible that the priest got the gender wrong, since the parents surnames would match and the DOB of Nov. 8, 1858 is just one day and one year off of what was recorded in his naturalization documents. Now it appears this is the same Teodoro whose marriage record Armando found.
But here is the bigger question: If Teodoro married in June 1876, could he have fled to the U.S. in July 1856 as claimed in his naturalization? When he married my g-grandmother Mary Ellen Marks in 1891 was he still married to Isabel. This could be one of those deeply buried secrets no one knew or talked about in our family. I’ll keep digging.
Thanks again for the help.
Steve
From: Armando [mailto:fandemma@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 5:37 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Research Digest, Vol 84, Issue 12
I also have ancestors that are de Alba through María de Alba Retamosa wife of Francisco Cervantes Villaseñor and I have also studied the de Alba family.
If you look at the baptisms of the parents of Inez de Alba you will see that they are reported to be españoles. This does not match the story of the mother being Indian. The age of the great grandfather of Mr. Compton does not match with that of Jose Teodoro de Alba y de Alba.
The mother of Teodoro Alva Terrones has Indian ancestry and the age of Teodoro Alva Terrones matches that of the great grandfather of Mr. Compton.
Teodoro Alva Terrones is more likely to the great grandfather of Mr. Compton than Jose Teodoro de Alba y de Alba.
However, I have found a Teodoro Alba González that was 18 years old on 7 Jun 1876 when he married Isabel Guerrero. This means his birth year is about 1858 which matches the birth year of Mr. Comptons great grandfather. The maternal surname being González also matches. The mother of Teodoro Alba González has mestizo ancestors which he could have considered to be Indian based on their features.
The marriage record is at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-54376-60?cc=1874591 &wc=12510777
There is a paper trail that shows that Teodoro Alba González was a direct descendant of Joseph Alonso de Alba who was the first de Alba in Los Altos born about 1579 and buried/deceased 26 Oct 1641 in Lagos de Moreno.
Since the paper trail is so good Y-DNA testing should be reliable if another direct descendant of Joseph Alonso de Alba and a cousin of Mr. Compton were to get Y-DNA tests.
Regards
Armando
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Gomezlucero, Irma wrote:
With many stories they can get jumbled through the generations. My father's aunt married into the de Alba family from San Juan, so I have done a little research. I have a Jose Teodoro de Alba baptized 02 Apr 1854 in San Juan whose parents were Gabino & Inez de Alba. Gabino's mother was a Gonzales: Ma Dolores Gonzales. His father was Ramon de Alba, so there still may be some truth to the story. In my research as I told Steve, some stories turn out to be true, and some not so true. :)
Irma Gomez Gtz
N. California
Album created
Thanks to everyone for you comments, tips and leads. I look forward to following up on them as I get time. I've done a lot of genealogy research on other branches of my family and have realize the need to separate good stories from fact. Even uncovered a few deeply guarded secrets along the way. I've always assumed that digging into Teodoro's past would be difficult, since we have so little information to go on. He had four children that survived him. One was my grandmother Birdie, but she was the youngest and was raised by her maternal grandmother, so didn't know her Dad very well. Her generation has all passed. There is only one grandchild left who knew him well. I plan to spend some time interviewing her in April, so may find out more then.
I've also assumed that the Mayan mother, Spanish stowaway father may have been a good story with little to back it up.
I've posted Teodoro's family portrait and certificate of citizenship in an album. The other details I have are that in his naturalization documents he claimed to be born on Nov. 9, 1856 and to have crossed the border near Laredo, Tx in July 1876. His obituary says he was born in Guadalajara, but his living granddaughter says it was San Jaun de los Lagos.
Research Digest, Vol 84, Issue 12
HelloIrma, I hopeyouhad a
wonderfulNewYearcelebrationandthisyearbringmuchjoyandsuccess. Irma, a
questionforyou, are therewebsiteswe can accesstogethistoryor 'cuentos'
aboutourancestors. I luckedoutanddidfindsomehistoryonthe Gutierrez
Mendozafamiliesbutnotmuch. I wouldappreciateifyouwouldsharethatinfowith me.
Have a greatday. GodBless.
Ann M. Gutierrez
________________________________
From: "Gomezlucero, Irma"
To: "research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Tue, January 15, 2013 11:38:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] ResearchDigest, Vol 84, Issue 12
Withmanystoriesthey can getjumbledthroughthegenerations. Myfather's
auntmarriedintothe de Alba familyfrom San Juan, so I have done a
littleresearch. I have a JoseTeodoro de Alba baptized 02 Apr 1854 in San Juan
whoseparentswereGabino & Inez de Alba. Gabino's motherwas a Gonzales: Ma
Dolores Gonzales. HisfatherwasRamon de Alba, so therestillmay be
sometruthtothestory. Inmyresearch as I toldSteve, somestoriesturnoutto be true,
andsomenot so true. :)
IrmaGomezGtz
N. California
-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org]
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Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 3:07 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: ResearchDigest, Vol 84, Issue 12
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DAILYDIGEST
****************************************
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Alba family (Joseph Puentes)
2. Re: Alba family (Armando)
3. Re: Alba family (ErlindaCastanon-Long)
4. Re: Alba family (PatCorbera)
5. Re: Alba family (PatCorbera)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:36:57 -0500
From: "Joseph Puentes"
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alba family
Message-ID: <005401cdf200$06bc54e0$1434fea0$@rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Notthesameyearormother's surnamebutsame date andmonthin San Juan:
name: JoseTeodoro Alba Alba
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 02 Apr 1854
baptism/christeningplace: SAN JUAN DE LOS LAGOS,JALISCO,MEXICO
father's name: Gabino Alba
mother's name: Ynes Alba
indexingproject (batch) number: C60340-2
systemorigin: Mexico-ODM
sourcefilmnumber: 220661
referencenumber:
CitingthisRecord
"Mexico, Baptisms, 1560-1950," index, FamilySearch
(https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J9Y9-LPX : accessed 14 Jan 2013),
JoseTeodoro Alba Alba, 02 Apr 1854; citing SAN JUAN DE LOS
LAGOS,JALISCO,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 220661.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-
> bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] OnBehalfOfSteveCompton
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:41 PM
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alba family
>
> I'm tryingtofind more informationaboutthefamilyofmygreat
grandfather. Hisname
> wasTeodoro Alba. Mostoftheinformationwehaveabouthisorigins come
fromstories
> passeddownfromhimtohischildren, so theyshould be regarded as more
legendthan
> fact. Thisincludesthat he wasborninornearGuadalajaraaround 1856 or
1857. His
> father, whosesurnamewas Alba, hadstowedawayon a shipfromSpainto
Mexico. His
> mother's surnamewasGonzalesandshewasofMayandescent. He hadseveral
siblings,
> butwe don't knowtheirnames. Atsomepointthefatherleftandreturned
toSpain.
> TeodorojoinedtheMexicanarmywhilestill a teenager, desertedand
crossedinto Texas
> sometimebetween 1875 and 1880. There he becameanaccomplishedcowboy. He
> graduallyadaptedtheAmericanspellingofAlby.
>
>
>
> He marriedMaryEllenMarksinBonham, Texas onOctober 8, 1891. Theyhad
7 children,
> 4 ofwhomlived. HiswifeMaryEllendiedshortlyafter 1910.
> Around 1920, he andhischildrensettledinBixby, Oklahomawherethey
cametoown
> severalbusinesses. He wasaffectionatelyknowntoeveryoneinthissmall
town as "Dad"
> Alby. Hiscitizenshippaperin 1938 describes him as 81 yearsofage; a
whitemaleof
> mediumcomplexion; blueeyes; greyhair; fivefeet, threeinchesinheight
andwidowed.
> He diedinBixbyonDecember 18, 1943.
>
>
>
> Someinthefamilybelievewasactuallybornin San Juan de los Lagos. I
havefound a
> birthrecordfor a TeodoroAlva Terrones bornonApril 2, 1857 inthat
location.
>
>
>
> Anyleadswould be appreciated.
>
>
>
> scompton
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:05:52 -0600
From: Armando
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Alba family
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
TeodoroAlva Terrones doesn't lineupwithyourgreatgrandfathersaying
thathismother's surnamewasGonz?lez. Whatdoeslineupisthatthe
motherofTeodoroAlva Terrones has relativeswhosebaptismsshowthemto
be indios. Thereweren't any Mayas inJaliscobutyourgreatgrandfather
likelymeantMexicanIndians.
TeodoroAlva Terrones wasthegreatgrandsonof Juan Jos? de Alba and
Antonia Gertrudis de Esparza y Fuentes. Juan Jos? de Alba wasan hijo
natural of Clara de Alba. Thereforethe paternal surnameof Juan Jos? de
Alba isnotknown.
JoseTeodoro Alba Alba baptized 2 Apr 1854 doesn't lineupwithanyofthe
maternal surnamesbeingGonz?leznordoesitlineupwiththemotherbeing
Indiannordoesitlineupwiththeageofyourgreatgrandfather. Allfour
ofthegrandparentsofJoseTeodoro Alba weredocumented as espa?oles
meaningJoseTeodoro Alba Alba theydidn't haverecentancestorsthatwere
indios.
No matterwhat, ifyou don't havethefirstandlastnameofbothofthe
parentsofyourgreatgrandfatherthereis no waytoknowforsurewhohis
parentswere. There are manybaptismsthat are missingfromtherecords.
Youcouldask a relativethatdescendsthroughthe paternal linetoget a
37 marker Y-DNAtest. Thetwoofyoucouldalsoget a FamilyFindertest.
However, there are no guaranteesthatyouwouldfindanythingdefinitive.
Forthoseteststoworktoyouradvantageotherpeoplewithdocumented
treeswouldhavehadtohavetakenthetests. However, itdoesseemto be
oneofthefewoptionsthatyouhavelefttotry.
Regards,
Armando
OnSun, Jan 13, 2013 at 11:40 AM, SteveCompton wrote:
> I'm tryingtofind more informationaboutthefamilyofmygreat
> grandfather. HisnamewasTeodoro Alba. Mostoftheinformationwehave
> abouthisorigins come fromstoriespasseddownfromhimtohischildren,
> so
> theyshould be regarded as more legendthanfact. Thisincludesthat he was
> borninornearGuadalajaraaround 1856 or 1857. Hisfather, whosesurname
> was Alba, hadstowedawayon a shipfromSpaintoMexico. Hismother's
> surnamewasGonzalesandshewasofMayandescent. He hadseveralsiblings,
> butwe don't knowtheirnames. Atsomepointthefatherleftandreturned
> to
> Spain. TeodorojoinedtheMexicanarmywhilestill a teenager, desertedand
> crossedinto Texas sometimebetween 1875 and 1880. There he becamean
> accomplishedcowboy. He graduallyadaptedtheAmericanspellingofAlby.
>
>
>
> He marriedMaryEllenMarksinBonham, Texas onOctober 8, 1891. Theyhad 7
> children, 4 ofwhomlived. HiswifeMaryEllendiedshortlyafter 1910.
> Around 1920, he andhischildrensettledinBixby, Oklahomawheretheycame
> toownseveralbusinesses. He wasaffectionatelyknowntoeveryoneinthis
> smalltown as "Dad" Alby. Hiscitizenshippaperin 1938 describes him as 81
> yearsofage; a whitemaleofmediumcomplexion; blueeyes; greyhair; five
> feet, threeinchesinheightandwidowed. He diedinBixbyonDecember 18,
> 1943.
>
>
>
> Someinthefamilybelievewasactuallybornin San Juan de los Lagos. I
> havefound a birthrecordfor a TeodoroAlva Terrones bornonApril 2, 1857
> inthatlocation.
>
>
>
> Anyleadswould be appreciated.
>
>
>
> scompton
>
>
>