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For well over 20 years I’ve been researching my Miramontes family line finally hitting the “wall” years ago. We’ve all experienced this from time to time. I believed I could go no further beyond my 6th Great-Grandfather, Nicolas Miramontes and Juana Sandobal, Great-Grandparents whose names were recorded in their son (My 5th GGparents) Lorenzo Miramontes and Agueda de Jesus Llamas marriage record (Married 14 Jan 1741 in Tlaltenango).
For whatever reason I had a hunch the Nicolas Miramontes and Juana Gonzalez line noted in Arturo Ramos’s “Familia’s Antiguas de Tlaltenango” had some connection. I recall Arturo and I had a short communication many years ago when he was in the midst of his research of the Miramontes descendancy searching marriage records when he generously asked NR members if there was anyone in particular we might be looking for, he would keep an eye out for them. I provided the names of Nicolas Miramontes and Juana Sandoval, named in Lorenzo’s marriage record. He remarked the Nicolas Miramontes he found married to Juana Gonzalez could be the same person I was looking possibly being married to another spouse.
It occurred to me recently to examine the marriage informational records prior to this marriage. In short order these records dated 25 Dec 1740 revealed Lorenzo’s mother as Juana Gonzalez and not Juana Sandoval as noted in his actual marriage record. Apparently using one of either her paternal or maternal surnames in these records. Nicolas Miramontes was living at this time and Juana was deceased. Lorenzo’s grandparents were Matheo de Llamas both and Juana Gonsales, both deceased at this time.
This newfound information led me to the next Lorenzo and Ana Dias de Santiago generation followed by Juan Miramontes and Brigida Ortiz de Urritia.
Now as I’ve studied carefully the Miramontes Family tree in Arturo’s book and the forum discussions concerning the descendancy of the Juan Miramontes and Brigida Ortiz de Urritia to the next generation. I ask the question if it has been established if this Juan is the son of Juan Miramontes and Maria Haro y Saucedo? I have a fair working knowledge of reading Spanish but admit at times have problems following written dialog where someone is explaining relationships from one generation to another.
Any help would be welcome
Thanks
Gus Meza
Miramontes
Six to five years ago, several of us - including the late Guillermo Tovar de Teresa and myself - provided a thorough analysis of the Miramontes family of Tlaltenango, Zacatecas.
Please go over EVERY word, accent, and comment in the following thread. We explored the ancestry of Juan de Miramontes & Brígida Ortiz de Urrutia (whose parents were Hernando Machado Rangel & María Bernal, she dau. of Diego Machón de Urrutia & N. Bernal).
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18291 [check out pages 1, 2, & 3]
SFHL
Steven Francisco Hernández Gamiño y López de los Reyes…y Miramontes.
Juan Miramontes and Brigida
I have this and the children I have for them are Fernando/Hernando wife Cecilia Lopez, Lorenso wife Maria Gonzales, Juan, Tomasina, husband Juan Sanchez Castellanos and Maria Rodrigues de Haro, husband Juan Miramontes. They are from Tlaltenango.
.
Declaración de Nicolás Díaz, español de 60 años de edad: Porque Juan de Miramontes y María de Saucedo, tuvieron por hijos a Hernando de Aro y a Juan de
Miramontes. dicho Juan de Miramontes. tuvo a Juana de Miramontes. y la dicha
tuvo a Doña Ana de Vera, madre del pretenso; y Hernando de Aro. tuvo por hija a
Doña Lorenza de Aro. y la dicha tuvo a Doña María Tello de Orozco, madre de la pretensa.
,
Declaración de Don Diego López Bravo.
español de 48 años de edad: Sabe que el difunto Francisco Xavier de Haro marido que fué de esta pretensa y Juan de Miramontes. el Gordito es tio carnal de este pretenso en segundo grado, por ser primo hermano de Juan de Miramontes Aro.
padre de este dicho pretenso. Declaración de Don Fernando de Haro. español de 73 años de edad, pariente de los pretensos: Que Doña Gertrudis de la Cueva está en tercero con quinto grado de afinidad con su pretenso porque Lorenzo de Miramontes Aro. tuvo y procreó por su hijo legítimo a Juan de Miramontes Aro, quien en la misma forma hubo y procreó a Bartholomé de Miramontes Aro, el cual
de la misma manera hubo y procreó a Juan de Miramontes Aro, padre legítimo deThomás de Miramontes Aro que es el pretenso. Y en cuanto a la pretensa es a saber que Femando de Aro. hermano de Lorenzo de Miramontes Aro. tatarabuelo del pretenso, hubo y procreó por su hijo legítimo a Joseph de Aro, padre de Francisco Xavier de Aro, marido de la pretensa. Otros testigos declaran que los
pretensos no tienen parentesco alguno, o que se encuentran en grados diferentes.
Se otorgó La dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara, en 4 de julio de 1746. 25
fojas.
Juan Miramontes and Brigida Ortiz de Urritia
Thanks so much for your input. It's helped tremendously to clarify the questions I had.
Gus
Juan Miramontes and Brigida Ortiz de Urritia
Chris, thanks for your reply to my post. I've seen this information on this webpage. I wasn't certain of the veracity of the information there. It seemed to me some of the discussions concerning Juan's parents here on the NR website were not completely definitive. Again this may be a misinterpretation on my part. I fully realize the great deal of research poured into these first generations of the Miramontes family by many NR members and the lack of records available to prove out some of these relationships. For this I am very appreciative.
Gus Meza
Juan Miramontes
Hi Gus,
Those may be older posts, because the sources at the bottom, including the link to the dispensa that you can click on and view, does state that Juan Miramontes is the son of Lorenso Miramontes, son of Juan Miramontes.
Chris
Juan de Miramontes and Brigida de Urritia
Hi Gus,
The Juan de Miramontes you're asking about is actually the grandson of Juan de Miramontes and Maria de Haro y Saucedo. You can see his documented tree here:
http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Miramontes-5
Chris