Nuestros Ranchos Site

I don't mind reading and writing in Spanish on the list although I only consider myself conversant and not fluent. However, it drives me crazy to try to interpret all the words that have a "?" substituted for every accent mark, oomlaut, and tilde. Is there any way to have our program recognize Spanish symbols? Otherwise, I'd prefer to read Spanish without the marks.

I also don't think the translation from Babel Fish is very well done:
No importo el leer y el escribir en español en la lista aunque solamente me considero entendido y no fluido. Sin embargo, me conduce loco para intentar interpretar todas las palabras que tienen "?" substituido para cada marca, oomlaut, y tilde del acento. ¿Hay manera de hacer que nuestro programa reconozca símbolos españoles? Si no, preferiría leer a españoles sin las marcas.
También no pienso que es la traducción de los pescados de Babel muy bien hecha:
~Deena~
> Ya que hay un n?mero grande y creciente de miembros que prefieren comunicar en espa?ol es importante que intentemos hacer el sitio un poco m?s biling?e. Lo que escriben los miembros en sus mensajes ser?a bastante dif?cil traducir, pero esto se puede hacer a trav?s de una de las maquinas de traducci?n disponibles en la red como Babelfish. Intentaremos integrar esta funci?n al sitio en el futuro.

>>>>The other two are a Diego Pinedo who is a mulato in the early 1700s in Colotlan
and had lots of children and a Francisco Pinedo who appears in Tlaltenango around
1700. Before that there are no Pinedos in Tlaltenango other than a son of one of
the mayors in the early 1700s who appears to have left no descendancy in the area.
Francisco Pinedo appears to have immigrated from Tayahua, Zacatecas (in what is
now Villanueva) since the marriage of his oldest son states that he was born in
Tayahua. That makes sense and would explain why he doesn't appear >>>>>

I have no idea if this is the same Francisco PINEDO you are citing above, but maybe
this will lead to a connection:

from LDS #655564, Baptisms, El Sagrario, Autlan, Jalisco
Maria Gregoria PINEDO Navarro
born 11 Mar, baptized 12 Mar 1817
mulata de los Guajes
hija legitima de Jose Monico PINEDO y Maria Senobia NAVARRO
Abuelos paternos: Francisco PINEDO y Maria ALZAGA
Abuelos maternos: Juan NAVARRO y Maria Manuela RADILLO
Padrinos: Jose Seberino PLACENCIA y Maria Seberiana LOPEZ
75

The AM are Juan Joseph Antonio NAVARRO Guerrero, aka NABARRETTE,
hl de Julian NAVARRO y Juana Maria GUERRERO
and Juana Maria Manuela RADILLO Albares.
hl de Antonio Lusiano RADILLO Ocampos and Maria Ycacia ALBARES Gonsales

Gloria Delgado

Arturo,

Recibí el mensaje con tildes y acentos en español. Ahora, una pregunta: ¿recibiste tú este mensaje con acentos y interrogatorias?

I received the message with the diacritical markings in Spanish. Now, a question: did you receive my email with the appropriate markings? I'm using a Mac, G5 with Tiger software and I'm curious.

David in Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: arturoramos
>Sent: Jul 28, 2006 4:07 AM
>To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Accents and Question Marks
>
>
>Deena:
>
>We had this problem with the emails that the system was sending out as well. I imagine that it has something to do with the character system that your email is using to decode the messages but I believe there is a way to get the message to include a marker telling the email program what character system it is encoded in.
>
>Can you just confirm that you are seeing the question marks in your email and not on the site itself.
>
>Alguien quien recibe estos mesnajes en español... ¿Me podrían decir si reciben estos mensajes llenos de marcas de interrogación donde deberían haber tildes?

The research list is for research about the estados of Jalisco,
Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes. I understand that occasionally there
might be a question come up that needs to take us out of the area. In
those cases go ahead but then if the thread persists take it to private
email please.

. . .on the other hand the "general" list i'm thinking we should have
just a little. . .just a little more flexibility, but still keep in mind
the focus of the group is for the serious researcher doing genealogy in
the estados of Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes.

What do you all think?

Might I also take this opportunity to introduce you to a great list that
is for All of Mexico: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mexicanfhr Jonathan
Walker is a great genealogist and bends over backwards to help people
with their genealogy questions. Also when various members of the
Nuestros Ranchos group have gone to SLC he has met them and shown them
around the library. I guess I'm saying all that so that if anyone thinks
that the http://nuestrosranchos.org group is too restrictive that there
are other quality options available.

thanks,

Joseph Puentes

ps: since I'm on my soap box lets not forget to change the subject
headers to properly reflect the content of the messages, thanks.

======================

La lista de la investigación está para la investigación sobre los
estados de Jalisco, de Zacatecas, y de Aguascalientes. Entiendo que de
vez en cuando pudo haber una pregunta viene encima de ése necesita
tomarnos del área. En esos casos a continuación pero después entre si el
hilo de rosca persiste toma él al email privado por favor. . . el on el
otro mano la lista "general" que soy pensando nosotros debe tener apenas
poco. el just una poco más flexibilidad, pero todavía tiene en cuenta
que el foco del grupo está para el investigador serio que hace la
genealogía en los estados de Jalisco, Zacatecas, y Aguascalientes. ¿Qué
usted todo piensa? La fuerza I también toma esta oportunidad de
introducirle a una gran lista que esté para todo el México:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mexicanfhr Jonatán Walker es un gran
genealogist y se dobla encima al revés para ayudar a la gente con sus
preguntas de la genealogía. También cuando los varios miembros del grupo
de los ranchos de Nuestros han ido a SLC él lo ha resuelto y lo ha
demostrado alrededor de la biblioteca. Conjeturo que soy el decir todo
el eso de modo que si cualquier persona piensa que el grupo de
http://nuestrosranchos.org es demasiado restrictivo que hay otras
opciones de la calidad disponibles.

gracias,

José Puentes

p.d.: puesto que estoy en mi caja del jabón dejo para no olvidarse de
cambiar los jefes sujetos para reflejar correctamente el contenido de
los mensajes, gracias.

This is for Nathan Jones.

Nathan,

I called Ms.Silvia Granillo (915-859-7913 who is the current Enrollment
Officer of the Tigua Tribe. I asked about wheher Cacique (Chief)
Perjuin Granillo was still alive. She told me that that was in the
olden time. She never answered my question but a Cacique Aniceto
Granillo died a long time ago. Perjuin may have been his nickname.

You can probably borrow books about his fron the University of Texas at
el Paso (UTEP) where they have Tigua history material.

In one of their references Cacique Granillo is listed as follows

Also, Silvia Granillo told me that she remembered an Alderete family
who used to live in the reservation but that they were never Tigua. If
I remember correctly (don't quote on this, it's been a long time since
I read it) that family was kicked out of the Reservation when they
dislodged several families who were not Tiguas.

Ms. Granillo also told me that for further information you should call
her at the number given. It might be usefull to pursue this further at
the Tigua office.

I hope this is helpful.

Elvira

Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Perjuin Granillo of the Tiguas.
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Do any of you in El Paso know if Chief Perjuin Granillo of the Tiguas
is still
alive?

I am told he has another name, this might be his Hispanic name.

I am told he is the only living person who can verify my father's
heritage.

I'm told he has avoided all Alderetes for years because he feels
responsible for
the death of his best friend, my grandfather. He might think we want to
kill
him, but nothing is further from the truth. No one holds him
responsible, the
death was due to natural causes.

Marta Estrada at the El Paso Historical Society has tried to help me,
but she
says all her documents and files are in storage. By the time the
library is open
again, he may be dead, if he isn't already.

I believe there are pictures available of my ggrandfather, Benigno
Alderete,
perhaps at the Candelaria House, or in the library files. He was a major
personage in his times.>

________________________________________________________________________
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Muy bien dicho. Arturo y Joseph han trabajado bastante, y lo agradesco.
Me gusta que el sitio sera bilingue.

Well said. Arturo and Joseph have worked hard to pull us together, and offer us all the aid we need. I appreciate all their hard work.

I particularly appreciate the move towards a bilingual environment.

I offer my help in cemetery look ups. I live near Evergreen Cemetery, the oldest cemetery in Los Angeles, dating from the 1840s. Most of the old wooden markers have disintegrated, but there are many from the last part of the 19th century.

I also live near Calvary Catholic Cemetery in Boyle Heights, and Resurrection Catholic Cemetery here in Monterey Park.

I don't believe their records are available online. I can go to the office and search the books.

I'll be glad to leave flowers on a grave at anyone of these cemeteries for you, and email you a picture of the grave.

---- Alicia Carrillo wrote:
> Arturo,

What a great option for all, to have the opportunity to learn from each other, both spanish and english speaking, aside from e-mail communication.

Que gran oportunidad para todos, poder compartir y recopilar informacion en ambas lenguas, español e ingles.

This site is one that brings much gratification, empowerment, knowledge, companionship, insight and kinship to many many people via cyberspace. Who could have imagined when I was growing up that I would have such close connections to people I have never met. For those of you who are younger and who grew up in the age of technology it is not something foreign. I used to have an elderly neighbor who when her husband passed away about 20 years ago and after she had been alone for for many years would say that she could no longer read the paper, not because she wasn't literate or couldn't see, she had been a teacher, but because much of the terminology was not something she could relate to.

Este sitio es trae mucha gratificacion, empoderamiento, sabiduria, acompañamiento, perspectiva, parentesco y afinidad via el espacio cybernetico. Quien se hubiese imaginado cuando yo era niña que fuera posible sentirme tan cerca a tantas personas que ni conozco. Para ustedes que son mucho mas jovenes y que se desarollaron en la epoca de tecnologia no es algo raro. Tuve una vecina anciana que cuando murio su esposo hace mas de 20 años y que despues de muchos años me decia, "no me es posible leer el periodico porque hay tanto que no entiendo" Esto no era porque no supiese leer puesto que fue profesora sino porque mucho del lenguaje no lo comprendia.

It was the high-tech age, talking of bytes and megabytes, e-mail, cache, semiconductors, mainframes, laptops, desktops, memory but not in the context she knew in terms of memory, bites, desktops and laptops and a many other words or phrases.

Era la epoca de bytes, megabytes, e-mail, cache, semiconductores, maniframes, laptops, memoria y otras frases y palabras pero no se usaban en el contexto que ella sabia sino que de manera ajena a su generacion.

I have gotten too wordy but I just wanted to thank you both for giving us the gift of your time, your talent and your wisdom.
Les quiero agradecer a Joseph y Arturo por el regalo que nos brindan con su sabiduria, talento y el tiempo que toman para mejorar la presentacion de informacion a este grupo de gentes que se interesan en la busca de sus ancestros y su historia.

Atentamente,
Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Ca

----- Original Message ----
From: arturoramos
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 9:13:38 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Páginas en español

Ya que hay un número grande y creciente de miembros que prefieren comunicar en español es importante que intentemos hacer el sitio un poco más bilingüe. Lo que escriben los miembros en sus mensajes sería bastante difícil traducir, pero esto se puede hacer a través de una de las maquinas de traducción disponibles en la red como Babelfish. Intentaremos integrar esta función al sitio en el futuro.

Lo más importante por el momento es hacer que las páginas que genera el sitio que tengan instrucciones o información fundamental quedan traducidas. Si Vd. ha puesto en su perfil que su idioma sea español, deberá ver que los menus del costado derecho y la mayoría de páginas genéricas (es decir las que no contienen mensajes escritos por miembros) quedan traducidas al español. Sé que aún hay algunas páginas que no quedan traducidas. Si nos pueden ayudar a identificar páginas que no quedan traducidas, intentaremos traducirlas.

Ya verán que recién traducimos la página principal de archivos “Files” y algunas otras.

Gilbert Paez here. First of all, thank you for letting me part this group. I am working my way through the various areas of the website. It is Great!
My question: Could someone help me with the rules for the proper use of hispanic surnames? Example: My grandmother's maiden name was Romero and my grandfather's last name was Paez. Would my father be Paez Romero?

Cuales son las reglas para el uso de los appellidos en la cultura hispana? Ejemplo: El apellido de mi abuelo era Romero antes de casarse. El apellido de mi abuelo era Paez. El apellido de mi padre fuera Paez Romero o Romero Paez?

Gracias,

Thanks in advance for your help.

Sistema Español de Dos Apellidos.

---------------------------------
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Ya que hay un número grande y creciente de miembros que prefieren comunicar en español es importante que intentemos hacer el sitio un poco más bilingüe. Lo que escriben los miembros en sus mensajes sería bastante difícil traducir, pero esto se puede hacer a través de una de las maquinas de traducción disponibles en la red como Babelfish. Intentaremos integrar esta función al sitio en el futuro.

Lo más importante por el momento es hacer que las páginas que genera el sitio que tengan instrucciones o información fundamental quedan traducidas. Si Vd. ha puesto en su perfil que su idioma sea español, deberá ver que los menus del costado derecho y la mayoría de páginas genéricas (es decir las que no contienen mensajes escritos por miembros) quedan traducidas al español. Sé que aún hay algunas páginas que no quedan traducidas. Si nos pueden ayudar a identificar páginas que no quedan traducidas, intentaremos traducirlas.

Ya verán que recién traducimos la página principal de archivos “Files” y algunas otras.

Dear cousins:

I just got this email from a gentleman in Aguascalientes who is researching our same lines. He must have run across my homepage. As I understand his message Diego Romo de Vivar ranged over a wider area than we anticipated, not extending his lifestyle to Hidalgo del Parral, Chihuahua alone, but reaching as far north in Nueva Biscaya as Villa Ahumada, which he founded.

If you've never been there, I highly recommend Villa Ahumada. It's the town that cheese built. I think Menonite Cheese, but in any case a soft, moist, white cheese served on a fresh hand made tortilla.

Out of this world! Vendors sell them to passing cars, trains, busses....pedestrians! They probably sold them to passing wagon trains.

All decades before Pollo Loco!

Ernie: dame un poco más de información sobre los Romo de Vivar: Diego y
Pedro. Te informo que Diego estuvo unos años en Chihuahua como colonizador
y fundó lo que ahora es Villa Ahumada.. Es probable que haya dejado
descendencia fuera de matrimonio por allá. Hay un estudio interesante de ese
episodio.Tengo documentado que se casó en Aguascalientes, no en España.
Pedro estuvo en Alamos, Sonora también como colonizador, pero al parecer
volvió ya viejo a Teocaltiche, Jalisco. Es fundador de la mayoría de las
líneas genealógicas de Los Altos de Jalisco y de ahí, de las de Sonora y
Sinaloa. Tengo la hipótesis de que vinieron a América por que son primos
hermanos del Capitán Juan Rincón de Vivar y el Presbítero Pedró Rincón (de
Vivar) de Ortega, poderosísimo personaje que fundó el mayorazgo de los
Rincón-Gallardo. Es probable que los Romo hayan venido a ayudar a los primos
ricos y luego que sirvieron a la corona como colonizadores en las fronteras
de los chichimecas, se asentaron en esta región como propietarios. Está
documentado (Archivo histórico de Aguascalientes, 1654), que ambos
estuvieron un tiempo en la costa de lo que ahora es Nayarit, junto con otros
colonos del centro de Nueva Galicia, defendiendo la costa de los ataques
piratas.
Saludos

Mi reconocimiento a la labor desarrollada por Arturo, Joseph y todos aquellos que hacen posible que exista "Nuestros Ranchos". Coincido totalmente con los conceptos vertidos por Alicia Carrillo. Finalmente, los idiomas, como las religiones o los partidos políticos no deben ser obstáculo para el entendimiento. Sin embargo "hablando el mismo idioma", podremos entendernos mejor. Saludos y enhorabuena.

---------------------------------
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Hello everyone,
My name is Leticia Salazar, and I am new to this group, I joined the group
in hope of extending my familytree and helping others do the same. My
research began back in 2000 after I purchased a book for my mother on genealogy,
(Filigranas, Fundaciones y Genealogias de Tepetongo, Jerez Zac.) by Jose
Leon Robles De La Torre, although the book contains many families including my
Parents, many of the family tree are wrong. I am hoping one day write my own
book and include not only genealogies but also life and struggles that lead
families to this country.

I have created a PAF5 that contains over 1,000 names, if anyone is from
Municipio de Tepetongo Zac, I am more than willing to share my info.

At this time I have a couple of questions for anyone from this area, I am
stuck on two names, Pantaleona Carlos who history claims was married to a Rafael
Felix back in 1790, although there are many Rafael Felix I can't find any
concrete evidence they were married. I would really appreciate anyones help.

thank you very much

Leticia

Saludos a todo el Grupo. Les comunico que desde ayer tienen a su disposición mi modesto trabajo de investigación relacionado con los MARQUEZ, ROBLES, RODRIGUEZ, VILLAOSLADO de Tepetongo, Zac. y los JUAREZ, VIDAL, HARO, ESPITIA de Jeréz, Zac. Agradeceré las correcciones, adiciones y sugerencias al mismo. El documento está disponible para todos bajo el título

---------------------------------
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http://www.ala.org/ala/acrl/acrlpubs/crlnews/backissues2003/crlnewsdec0…

Do any of you in El Paso know if Chief Perjuin Granillo of the Tiguas is still alive?

I am told he has another name, this might be his Hispanic name.

I am told he is the only living person who can verify my father's heritage.

I'm told he has avoided all Alderetes for years because he feels responsible for the death of his best friend, my grandfather. He might think we want to kill him, but nothing is further from the truth. No one holds him responsible, the death was due to natural causes.

Marta Estrada at the El Paso Historical Society has tried to help me, but she says all her documents and files are in storage. By the time the library is open again, he may be dead, if he isn't already.

I believe there are pictures available of my ggrandfather, Benigno Alderete, perhaps at the Candelaria House, or in the library files. He was a major personage in his times.

Arturo,

About those batch numbers starting with "I":

Back in February, I printed out an entry in the IGI after searching for my grandfather's sister Angela Olague in Jerez and Tepetongo.

At the time, the IGI listed an Angela Olague born in Jerez around the time my great-aunt was born, but the parents listed for her were not the same as my grandfather's. I printed out the entry and filed it, thinking that when they got around to listing the film number, etc, I would send for it. The entry listed as Source Information only a batch number (I043209) and no Dates, or Source Call Number or Type or Sheet.

Now that I went back to check the IGI, that entry is no longer listed. It is just gone, disappeared, yet I have the hard copy of the entry that I printed out. I tried finding that Angela Olague again using the parents that had been listed for her (Agustin Olague and Ponciana Aguilar), and I also tried finding her by entering the baptismal date that had been listed in the IGI (11 MAY 1892). My great aunt Angela Olague was born (according to another source), on August 2, 1893, and her parents supposedly were Pedro Olague and Rafaela Tinagero the same as for her brother Francisco Olague (I found him in the Tepetongo film for September 1872 with his parents listed as Pedro Olague and Rafaela Felix. (The Tinajeros oftened used the surname Felix). I can't find Angela anywhere and now not even the IGI lists any Angela Olague.

What are these Batch numbers that start with an "I", and why would that listing disappear from the IGI altogether?

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA --

Below is an excerpt I took from the latest newsletter from Pat
Gooldy, who runs Ye Old Genealogy Shoppe.  She is located in Indiana and
has few books on Mexico, but I love reading her newsletters because she always
has such good advice.  In the excerpt below, she is talking about
researching her own and her husband's relatives in some of the Eastern
states.  As we find in Mexico, she found that many people in
a community had the same names due to the habit of naming sons after fathers,
uncles, etc. Also, she found that men often married women with the same first
name, as we have found in Mexico.  Do we really have the right Jose x,
married to our Maria x, of approximately the same ages, who were from our
locality and not another couple also from there or who moved there? Often after
tedious transcribing and comparisons, I find that I was following the wrong
thread.

Emilie Garcia

Port Orchard, WA
----

*****************************************************************************

In genealogy
contemporary sources arent yours. They are the sources of your ancestors
available contemporaneously to him.

This is where you
look for the pieces that tell you who he was not just that he
was. Therein lay the stories of these men
or women you call kin. Thank heavens for
the modern resources and the databases that bring an ever clearer picture to you
of your ancestors and therefore, of yourself.

 However, a word of caution! Not every John Smith in the records of Maine
is YOUR John Smith. You are weaving a
tapestry of a mans life. Make sure all
your threads belong to the one that is your ancestor. Most towns, even back then, had more than one
man with the same name. I once helped a
lady research a county in Indiana that had four Percifield relatives,
all brothers, who lived at Four Corners, so
named because it was the place where the sections of land that the boys had
purchased met. Each one of the four boys
had at least four sons and all of them gave to the boys the names of himself and
his three brothers. Cant you imagine what
it was like when a lady stepped to the door of her cabin and yelled, Gilbert
Percifield, you get over to this cabin right now! Most of the time she got at least four, and
sometimes all five, of them at her doorstep in minutes. [Would be kind of nice, wouldnt it? Today you count the cars in the driveway
before you yell for anyone! And even then
you are lucky if anyone answers, never mind comes a-running!]

 The Percifield marriages proved to be
daunting. Their county has had some
record destruction so the marriages are thought not to be complete. Even at that all the first generation married
and most of the second generation married.
There were plenty of Gilbert Percifield marriage records in the
courthouse records. The only trouble was
six of them married ladies named Elizabeth!
Think that was not a can of worms?
Straightening out that mess was a big job. But how could we trace the brides family if we
did not know which Elizabeth was ours? Turns out, we think he was one of the Gilbert
Percifields that had been married in another county before they moved
there. Finally found that record, but a
lingering doubt will always be there as to whether we really did get the right
Elizabeth!

Ernie and Pat,

Here are 7 additional excerpts from Jose Luis' book, regarding Juana Delgadillos. I guess it shows you must be very cautious and vigilant when claiming ancestry to a certain individual's name because as we can see there appear to be several Juana Delgadillos.

Buena suerte,
Alicia
San Jose, Ca

Capitulo 13, Pagina 40
Juana Flores de Medrano. El 14 de Febrero de 1695 en Nochistlan, caso Juana Flores de Medrano hija de Francisco Flores de Medrano y Maria de Sandoval; con Nicolas Ximenes, vecino de esta feligresia, residente en el pueblo de San Diego, hijo de Diego Ximenez y Catharina de Arellano (Capitulo 74), siendo padrinos Lorenzo Alvarez y Juana Delgadillo.

Capitulo 13, Pagina 41
9) Magdalena de Enriquez. El 26 de febrero 1702 en Nochistlan casaron Magdalena de Enriquez y Joseph Alvarez Tostado hijo del Captitan Francisco Alvarez Tostado (hijo de Lorenzo (Nicolas segun la dispensa) Alvarez Tostado) y de Maria Ana Ramirez de Hermosillo (hija de Jose Ramirez de Mendoza y Ana Muñoz de Hermosillo). Refierase a la dispensa Matrimonial de Antonio Ximenez y Juana Josepha Delgadillo.

Capitulo 13, Pagina 44
Juana Delgadillo quien caso con Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado vecino de Teocaltiche hijo de Lorenzo Alvarez Tostado y Maria de Nava y Cuevas teniendo su descendencia en Teocaltiche. La consanguinidad en 3ro con 4to grado expuesta en la dispensa matrimonial presentada el 27 de Enero de 1749 en Nochistlan por Bartolome Alvarez Tostado hijo de Joseph Alvarez Tostado y Magdalena Enriquez, difunta: para casar con Juana Gertrudis Delgadillo, hija de Diego Delgadillo Alarcon y Maria Gonzalez de Hermosillo, difunta. identifica como tronco a Juan Delgadillo y Maria de la Concepcion Islas donde Diego Delgadillo padre de Ysabel Delgadillo abuela del pretenso y Juan Delgadillo abuelo de la pretensa son hermanos. Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara, Expedientes de la Serie de Matrimonios - Extractos de los Siglos XVII y XVIII. Maria de la Luz Montejano Hilton, Microfilm 168007. De este matrimonio se han documentado los siguientes seis vastagos:

Capitulo 13, Pagina 45
a) Juana Delgadillo. El 14 de Marzo de 1662 en Nochistlan fue bautizada Juana hija de Juan Delgadillo y de Elvira Martines.

Capitulo 15, Pagina 51
e) Dionisio Rodriguez de Frias, El 5 de Enero de 1716 en Nochistlan se presento la informacion matrimonial de Dionisio Rodriguez de Frias Pedroso hijo de Pedro Rodriguez y Petrona de Yslas: para casar con Juana Delgadillo, hija de Francisco Xavier Delgadillo y Juana Gutierres (o Gonzalez de Hermosillo) ya difunta, donde se presento un 3er con 3er grado de consanguinidad. ya que la pretensa es nieta de Juan de Ysla hermano de Josepha de Yslas, abuela del pretenso. Es hasta ahora un enigma el origen del apellido Pedroso.

Capitulo 17, Pagina 62
d) Agustin de Quesada. El 23 de Marzo de 1672 en Nochistlan, murio Agustin niño de hedad de dos años, hijo de Nicolas Quesada y Juana Delgadillo

Capitulo 63, Pagina 202
5) b) Maria Perez Infante. El 27 de Agosto de 1653 en Santa Maria de los Lagos fue bautizada Maria hija de Alonso Perez Infante y Thomasa de Sepulveda, siendo padrinos Don Alonso de Castro y Doña Maria de Altamirano su muger. Maria Perez Infante caso con Luis de Benavides hijo de Juana Delgadillo y Diego de Benavides, Capitulo 57.

I do not have the Vazquez y Frias publication, but I do have the
"capitulo,"listing. There's a reference to Capitulo 57 Descendencia de Diego de
Benavides y Juana Delgadillo. It may help to establish if this Juana
Delgadillo was the daughter of Diego and Petronilla. Reference to
individuals with the Delgadillo surname can be found in the following

Ernie and Pat,

Here is what I found on Juana Delgadillo in Capitulo 56, The first paragraph, I would scan it but my scanner isn't working now.

Capitulo 56, Se desconoce la ascendencia de Juana Delgadillo. Parece ser que Diego de Benavides es hijo de Diego de Benavides el natural de los Reinos de Castilla. Notese que uno de sus hijos, luis de Benavides se denomina mestizo. El 28 de Enero de 1679 en Mexticacan murio de enfermedad y vejez normal y de vomitos Juana Delgado de hedad de mas de noventa años, viuda de Diego de Venabides. De este matrimonio se han documentado los siguientes cinco vastagos. Phelipa Benavides, Maria Benavides, Maria de Aceves, Juana Delgado quien caso con Juan Rodriguez de Frias, hijo de Juan Rodriguez de Frias y Jertrudis de Amaya, Capitulo 15. y Luis de Benavides.

Hope this helps,
Alicia

I have uploaded 5 attachments for the "capitulo," listing for the publication "Genealogia de Nochistlan Antiquo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales," by Jose Luis Vazquez y Rodriguez de Frias.

This listing can be viewed by clicking on the Files tab from the main page of Ranchos --> click on Books and Articles --> click on Genealogia de Nochistlan Capitulos 1 - 100, --> click on "5 attachments," --> click on the individual attachments ( 1 -5 ) to view the listings.

Pat Silva Corbera

>
> Hola Tomas y bienvenido al grupo!

Yo soy una de las que desciende de Diego Delgadillo. Tambien soy originaria
de Guadalajara donde viví hasta los 10 años de edad. Tres de mis abuelos
eran de Los Altos de Jalisco, y la cuarta, por linea materna, era de San
Luis Soyatlán (area de Chapala).

Tengo mas datos que compartir de Diego Delgadillo. Sus padres fueron Juan
Delgadillo y Maria de la Concepcion de Yslas. Los abuelos de Diego por
linea paterna fueron Juan de Renteria e Ysabel Calderon. De Petrona de
Yslas tengo hasta cinco generaciones atras.

Les acabo de preguntar a los descendientes de esta linea si les gustaria que
nos comunicaramos por e-mail para intercambiar los datos pertinentes de esta
familia. Por lo pronto tengo contados a: ti, Pat Corbera (por medio de su
marido Tino), Olivia, Irma, Maria Elena Gutierrez-Uhlenburg, Enrique
Legaspi, y yo.

Maria Elena Cortez
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 04:44:54 -0500
From: " Tom?s Alejandro Villegas G?mez "
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Diego Delgadillo
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Cc: Genealogia-Mexico@googlegroups.com
Message-ID:
<50f333d50607240244n16d0c9d8v14460dbfa91207a4@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hola a Todos:

Saludos desde Guadalajara, soy Tom?s Alejandro Villegas G?mez, naci y
vivo en esta ciudad de Guadalajara, la Perla de Occidente, mis ancestros via
paterna son de la region de los Altos de Jalisco y por via Materna son de
la Rivera o Cienega de Chapala, tengo pocos dias de pertenecer a su grupo
de Nuestros Ranchos., del cual me entere por medio del otro grupo
genealogico al que tambien pertenezco de "Genealogia-Mexico" de la Sociedad
Genealogica del Norte de M?xico.

Esta comunicacion es para comentar sobre nuestros ancestros: Diego
Delgadillo y Petrona o Petronila de Islas de Nochistlan, Zacatecas.

Soy descendiente de Petronila y Diego como sigue:

1a Generacion-Yo: Tom?s Alejandro Villegas G?mez, 2da Genderacion-Mis
Padres: Tom?s Villegas Guti?rrez y Mar?a Elena G?mez Castellanos, 3a.
Generacion-Mis Abuelos: Francisco Villegas Navarro y Mucia Gutierrez Ramirez
- Jose Gomez Gomez y Sara Castellanos Romero, 4ta. Generacion- Mis
Bisabuelos: Gil Gutierrez Flores y Josefa Ramirez Perez, 5ta. Generacion:
Mis Tatarabuelos: Jose Guadalupe Gutierrez y Maria Dolores Flores Torres,
6ta. Generacion: Mis 4tos. Abuelos: Jose Gutierrez Macias y Dolores de Alba
G?mez, 7ma. Generacion: Mis 5tos. Abuelos: Antonio Rafael Gutierrez
Delgadillo y Maria Feliciana de los Dolores Macias Valadez Mart?n del Campo,
8va. Generacion: Mis 6tos. Abuelos: Juan de Dios Gutierrez de Mendoza Galvan
de Rojas y Petronila Delgadillo Ramirez de Mendoza, 9na. Generacion: Mis
7mos. Abuelos: Diego Delgadillo Islas y Fabiana Ram?rez de Mendoza, 10ma.
Generaci?n: mis 8vos. Abuelos: Diego Delgadillo y Petronila de Islas.

En mi base de datos ademas de los 8 hijos que mencionan, yo tengo
registrados ademas los siguientes hijos de Diego y Petronila: a Christobal
nacido Aproximadamente en 1677 y a Juana que se caso con Lorenzo Alvarez
Tostado y Nava aprox. en 1682 en Nochistlan, uno de sus hijos Lucas Alvarez
Tostado Delgadillo fue bautizado el 14-Nov-1685 en Nochistlan Zacatecas, al
parecer sus otros 5 hijos (Que yo tengo registrados) nacieron en
Teocaltiche, Jalisco, Lorenzo murio el 16-Nov-1740.

Algien tiene mas generaciones atras, despues de Diego y Petronila,
es decir: saben quienes fueron los padres, abuelos, bisabuelos de Diego y
Petronila?, me gustaria saber tambien la genealogia de los que escriben al
respecto para saber como se conectan con mis 8vos. Abuelos: Diego
De?lgadillo y Petronila de Islas.

Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.

Arturo,

Thanks for the lookup. Unfortuately there was no hit.

Thanks!
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from arturoramos : --------------

>
> There is someone that appears to be some probable matches to your ARREDONDO
> AGUERO clan... perhaps a son of the Juan de Arredondo you are looking for.
> Arredondo is a town in spain and there are many entries for names like "Concha
> de Arredondo".
>
> T

Okay folks remember now:

if it has to do with our research in our area of research put it on the
research@nuestrosranchos.org list

if it has to do with our Announcements of some sort related somehow to
our area of research put it on the announce@nuestrosranchos.org list

if it has to do with General Topics related to genealogy in our area of
research put it on the general@nuestrosranchos.org list

So all those "Diego Delgadillo" emails that were in the general list
should actually be in the research@nuestrosranchos.org list

if someone happens to notice a thread starting or continuing on the
wrong list why not just change the address to the "right" address that
way you'll be doing your part to get the thread on the right list.

thanks,

joseph

Actually, I am not a descendant of Diego Delgadillo although I wish I were. ;-)

However, I have included auxiliary lines in my database as they connect through marriage, and it appears that almost everybody in Nochistlan is connected through marriage.

I've tried to be careful, but I know that there are mistakes in my work. I am getting better at research and documentation as I go. However, I was looking at the data that I have about Diego Delgadillo and Petronilla Islas and their children, and there are some discrepanices that you may want to clear up.

For example, according to the extracted record in the IGI, Xptoval Delgadillo was married to Fabiana Ramires on 31 JAN 1701 in Nochistlan (IGI Batch # M606256 -- Film # 0226725). However, according to José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías in his book, _Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales_, Diego Delgadillo was married to Fabiana Ramires.

The only records I can find at familysearch.org are patron-submitted sheets which are not primary sources. However, they also say that it was Diego who was married to Fabiana, but no source is indicated.

The film # 0224647 covering the years 1688 -1718 has not been extracted so someone would need to read the microfilm entry by entry to find the children's christening records in order to verify who is the correct couple.

I do not have access to that film nor do I live close to SLC, or I would feel compelled to scroll through it. I'd love to know what the rest of you find out.

Also, I do not know why I included the following child in the family of Diego and Petronilla:

JUANA RODRIGUEZ YSLAS -- IGI Batch # K600711 -- Film # 0226646
Parents: PEDRO RODRIGUEZ -- PETRONILA DE YSLAS
Christening: 27 DEC 1683 Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico

Page 44 -- Note 1o (Capitulo 13): Genealogía de Nochistlán Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales by José Luis Vázquez y Rodríguez de Frías.

As you can see, I referenced it, but did not include an explanation. If it was the same Petronilla who was married to Diego, she would have been at least 44 and probably much older, perhaps even ten years older. 54 is not an impossible age, and she was obviously healthy as is evidenced by the number of children she birthed, but I'm uneasy including this Juana without more information. Does anyone have José Luis' book available who can site his reasoning.

~Deena~

okay so it's been awhile since we transitioned and started on the new
site, but the rules are the rules. I'm starting a long range call for
genealogies (Do you remember when you and I made that agreement for you
to send in your "representative tree" to the group?).

Well January is the deadline. NOTE: if you have already submitted your
genealogy in gedcom form or a report or link to your online work you
have satisfied the agreement so please don't email me asking if you are
okay, you know you are okay.

Come January 31, 2007 I'm going to go through and delete everyone's
membership who has not submitted their genealogies as per our agreement
when you joined the group. So slowly but surely start working on what
you are going to submit. REMEMBER no living relatives and preferably a
"Genealogy Report" in either .rtf or .doc format, but just in an email
is okay as well.

It would be great if you submitted a gedcom, but that is not necessary.
You can simply put your tie to our Research Area in an email and send it
to me or better yet build yourself a folder following the folder
examples found in the "files" --> "members genealogies" area of the
group. http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/14067

Don't panic January 31, 2007 is over 6 months away. . .

. . .anyway I'm a real cream puff. when the time comes I usually cave in
and give extensions if you communicate that you need an extension. Then
again those folks that don't communicate get the "Ax" without mercy.

Start thinking about it,

joseph

ps: Remember there is help available with the technical side of creating
your folder and uploading to it. All you need to concern yourself with
is your research.

pps: if there is someone in the group that feels comfortable translating
can you contact me if you have time to translate this email. I could do
it but I'm sure I would butcher it pretty good.