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Por Rose Hardy |

Does anyone know of any books, websites, passenger ship records regarding Italians immigrating to Mexico say during the late 1500's to early 1800's? I've checked out the Archivos Espanoles En Red website: http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/index_aer.jsp to see if I could find my Italian ancestors who settled in Mexico, via Spain, but have come up with a big zero. I have a copy of the book " La Emigracion Castellana y Leonesa al Nuevo Mundo 1517-1700" by Maria del Carmen Martinez Martinez and nothing in there as well.

The surnames involved are Lomellin, Lomelli (Carlos Lomellini about 1600, children and grandchildren in Nochistlan, Zacatecas) and Durazzo around Hermosillo, San Miguel de Horcasitas, Sonora in the late 1700's to early 1800's.

Thanks
Rose
Fresno, CA

I am compiling the geneaological data on the lomelini from Italy to the branch that went to spain. It is a lot of material that I am going through and won't be finished until the end of the summer 09 .I will include pictures. I have compiled hidalgo's genealogical tree and traced his 2 lomeli lines. He descends from both lomeli brothers carlos and luis.

R.A.Ricci

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JUAN CRISTOBAL…

Hace 15 years 9 months

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Hello R.A.Ricci
I am very interested in the Lomelini branch. May I get some of the
information that you have.
I have information until Carlos Lomelini, may you share the information from
his parents,gp and ggp of Carlos, and if when you finish your research are
you going to make some publication? I would love to get it.
Juan Cristobal Villalobos Lomelin

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de R.A.Ricci
Enviado el: Domingo, 15 de Febrero de 2009 06:05 p.m.
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] lomelini

I am compiling the geneaological data on the lomelini from Italy to the
branch that went to spain. It is a lot of material that I am going through
and won't be finished until the end of the summer 09 .I will include
pictures. I have compiled hidalgo's genealogical tree and traced his 2
lomeli lines. He descends from both lomeli brothers carlos and luis.

R.A.Ricci

Online Status

R.A.Ricci (no verificado)

Hace 10 years 7 months

Enlace permanente

Hello juan Cristobal,

I am sorry that I never finished the book in 2009 like I promised but I have continued to gather information on the Lomellini family. I have posted some of what I have found in another post here in nuestro ranchos. I still have not finished the book but will continue to post bits and pieces online with an eventual book tying everything together.

I would appreciate people from nuestro ranchos sending me your Lomeli lines with written permission to add to our Lomeli book. Even though I am writing this book, it is not my book, it is our book as it is being done with contributions by many people, especially members of nuestro ranchos.

R.A.Ricci

Most Mexicans that take the Ancestry.com DNA test show to have 6%-15% of their autosomal DNA to be from Italy/Greece. It is not proof of an Italian ancestor for most Mexicans in the past 15 generations. It exists mostly because over the past 50,000 years as people migrated from Eurasia and the Middle East to Iberia they passed through Italy. Many of the SNP markers that ended up in Italy also ended up in Iberia before the Iberians (Spaniards and Portuguese) went to Mexico. Since those autosomal SNP markers are more abundant in Italy than in Iberia they are labeled as being Italian/Greek. Since Italy and Greece has a long history of mixing they have many of the same autosomal SNP markers.

If you upload the raw DNA file to www.Gedmatch.com then go to the Admixture option then choose Eurogenes then choose K36 it a result similar to the Ancestry results will be printed out. Then if you do that for everyone that shows up as a match to your mother you will see that they will also have an amount of Italian close to your mother. If you have other unrelated Mexican friends that are from another part of Mexico do the same you will see that they also have an amount of Italian close to your mother. This means that all Mexicans have those SNP markers. It does not mean it is proof of an ancestor in the past 500 years.

Something else to consider is that if a person has an ancestor that is from a completely different part of the world than the rest of their ancestors those autosomal SNP markers get reduced by 50% every generation. Hypothetically speaking, if all your ancestors in the past 10 generations are European except for one Mexican Indian the child of the Mexican Indian will have 50% Indian DNA (2nd generation). The grandchild 25% (3rd generation). The great-grandchild 12% (4th generation). The great-great-grandchild 6% (5th generation). 3% the 6th generation. 1% the 7th generation. 1/2% 8th generation. The autosomal DNA markers become hard to assign a label of origin once they get down to 2%.

In order for your mother to really have 9% Italian/Greek from an Italian ancestor one of her great-grandparents would have to be 100% Italian or she would have to have a very large number of Italian ancestors in the past 8-10 generations which I really doubt is the case.

It is hard for a lot of people to make sense of all of this because there is no site that explains all of this in detail. Too many people take the results literally and really the only autosomal SNP markers that Mexicans have that are not shared by other ethnic groups are the Native American markers and those are labeled as Mayan, Pima, or Columbian because those were the Native American groups that have been tested. Spaniards have African and Asian autosomal DNA so we also have those markers from them. Spaniards have mostly North European and Mediterranean autosomal SNP markers but so do all of the other European countries because they all have ancestors that traveled from the east to the west over the past 50,000 years and they all mixed with each over that time. That is what makes Europeans very similar. For that very reason your mother most likely also shows to have ancestry from other parts of Europe that don't show up in documentation.

Armando

thanks for explaining that. i'm thinking my momo's 3% mali heirtage maybe came from her ancestors in spain possibly.

is there a way tp figure out what tribes one's native ancestors came from?
ancestry dna tested her for 33% native(odd nubmer huh?)

There is no way to know for sure if the 3% Mali is from your Spanish ancestors or a mulato ancestor. The only thing I can tell you is if your mother's results are a lot or a little different compared to some other people if you run your mother's raw DNA file through a program called DIY Dodecad 2.1 Wrapper at http://www.y-str.org/2013/07/diy-dodecad-21-wrapper.html

No, there is no way to figure out which tribes one's native ancestors came from. The Spanish had native tribes help them in their conquest of Mexico so all of the tribes have mixed over the past 500 years. If they were to ever do published DNA studies of different groups in Mexico, apart from the Mayans, and release the raw DNA then they could probably find autosomal DNA markers that are more common in certain regions. That hasn't been done though, at least that I know of. There have been studies of native groups in Mexico but I don't think the raw DNA files were released.

33% isn't really odd since DNA does something called recombination and it isn't an exact 25% that is inherited by grandchildren from a grandparent. It can be off by 2% give or take and since multiple ancestors would have been mixed with native ancestry then the inherited DNA gets mixed in different amounts by the time it gets to our parents or grandparents. Even those that have 100% españoles in their documented ancestors they have at least 8% native ancestry.

Armando

yeah i don't think either of my mom's parents were pure spanish, and yes sometimes the records weren't always accurate. i've seen plenty of inconstancies in racial classification in records. heck i've seen people get calssified as one thing in a baptism record and labeled something else in a marriage or death record.
sometimes welathy 'mixed' people were considered 'espanol'. for example if the pedro cid who married maria carrillo is the same one who's mentioned in miguel's will, he would have been at least 1/4th native, maybe even half native(if my suspicions about miguel's sister maria cid's dad being a tribe leader of some sort: maybe guachichil,caxcan, or zacatecos).

i did hear though that dna doesn't always pass down evenly (hence why full siblings could get slightly different results), and that you may not inherit genes from all your ancestors.

the reason why i wondered if one could figure out what tribes their ancestors were from dna tests, because my mom and her parents had no clue what tribes their ancestors came from, and when i did research on what tribes lived in the areas they came from, the tribes who lived in the jerez vincinity were the huichol/guachichil/wixariki, zacatecos, and caxcans.

Almost all Mexicans that have more than 4 generations in Mexicans have some native ancestry so you are correct in believing neither of your mother's parents were pure Spanish. It would be foolish to believe they were even without the inconsistencies most of us have seen.

That is correct, DNA does not pass down evenly because of the recombination I mentioned in my previous post. You get 50% of your DNA from your mother but it isn't an exact 50% of her 100% because of recombination. For example, since she was 33% NA you could be 18% or 14% NA. Apart from that the way Ancestry.com, 23andme, and FTDNA do the calculations causes results to be more different between siblings than the way Geno 2.0, Dodecad, and Eurogenes do the primary calculations. The secondary calculation by Geno 2.0 and the Oracle result with Eurogenes can cause the results to be more different between siblings, just like Ancestry.com, 23andme, and FTDNA. This is due to the secondary stage of the calculators trying to assign a person to a specific country when there are many countries that are very similar, even countries outside a specific region. You have to get all of the tests and run all of the calculators to see the differences. I have done that with many people.

To see an example of how we don't inherit some of our ancestors autosomal DNA see the fan chart at http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Genetic… from http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/2009/11/10/qa-everyone-has-two-fam…

The Huicholes/Guachichiles/Wixarikis, Zacatecos, and Caxcanes were conquered by the Spanish and their native allies which were Tlaxcaltecans, Otomíes, and other tribes. Those Tlaxcaltecans and Otomíes left descendants in the towns they conquered and in some locations started their own towns. Many of the tribes were also relocated and that caused them to mix with other tribes. That didn't just happen in Jerez, it happened all over Nueva Galicia. John Schmal wrote a great article on the tribes at http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/jalisco_indig.html and the Spanish page about Lagos de Moreno has some extra information such as "La parte central de este territorio estaba ocupada por las familias de guerreros natos los cuachichiles [Guachichiles], al sur colindaban con el pueblo de san juan de Mazatitlán (hoy San Juan de los Lagos) pueblo de cazcanes [Caxcanes]fundado ca. 1543, con indios que fueron reubicados de los cañones de Juchipila, tras la Guerra del Mixtón de 1541." http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagos_de_Moreno

If we don't know which autosomal SNP markers the Tlaxcaltecans, Otomíes, and other native allies of the Spanish had and we don't know which autosomal SNP markers Huicholes/Guachichiles/Wixarikis, Zacatecos, and Caxcanes had there is no way to determine which autosomal DNA markers we have inherited. We only know which autosomal markers Mayans, Pima, Colombian natives, and a few other tribes had due to studies that have been done on them and their autosomal SNP markers were released for use by the DNA testing companies. That 33% Native American that your mother shows to have are markers shared by those Native Americans tribes they have studies on.

By the way, most of us have no idea which specific Indian tribes we descend from. Your mother isn't the only one that doesn't know. What we can say is we are descended from various tribes, some at a higher percentage and we might not ever know which ones and at what amount. A lot of information was lost with the conquest.

Armando

Rose,
I have a Carlos Lomelin born about 1584 in Genova, Genova, Italy and married to a Maria Benavides in about 1609, Nochistlan, Zacatecas, Mexico. They had one daughter named Juana Lomelin who married Francisco Gutierrez Rubio about 1651, in Nochistlan, Zacatecas. Francisco was born about 1610 in Jalostotitlán, Jalisco.

Maria Elena Gutierrez-Uhlenburg (Sacramento, CA)
fuccifeet@sbcglobal.net

Rose Hardy wrote:

Does anyone know of any books, websites, passenger ship records regarding Italians immigrating to Mexico say during the late 1500's to early 1800's? I've checked out the Archivos Espanoles En Red website: http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/index_aer.jsp to see if I could find my Italian ancestors who settled in Mexico, via Spain, but have come up with a big zero. I have a copy of the book " La Emigracion Castellana y Leonesa al Nuevo Mundo 1517-1700" by Maria del Carmen Martinez Martinez and nothing in there as well.

The surnames involved are Lomellin, Lomelli (Carlos Lomellini about 1600, children and grandchildren in Nochistlan, Zacatecas) and Durazzo around Hermosillo, San Miguel de Horcasitas, Sonora in the late 1700's to early 1800's.

Thanks
Rose
Fresno, CA

Maria

I am related through Carlos' and Maria Benavides son, Domingo and his son
Nicolas:

Lomelin, Nicolas
The son of Domingo Lomelin and Juana de Mendoza. He was baptized 27 July
1656 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas. He married Juana de Alba, the daughter of
Marcos de Pedrosa and Maria de Nava on 5 February 1682 in Santa Maria de los
Lagos, Jalisco. He died 18 November 1693 in Santa Maria de los Lagos,
Jalisco.

Lomelin, Matiana
The daughter of Nicolas Lomelin and Juana de Alba (Pedrosa). She was
baptized 30 October 1683 in Santa Maria de los Lagos, Jalisco. She married
Joseph Romo de Vivar, the son of Pedro Romo de Vivar and Lorenza Ruiz de
Esparza on 15 February 1699 in Santa Maria de los Lagos, Jalisco.

This is my relation:

Carlos Lomelin>Domingo Lomelin>Nicolas Lomelin>Mathiana de Lomellin>Maria
Basilia Romo>Joseph Manuel Gonzales De Hermosillo>Thadeo Xaimes
(Jaymes)>Joaquin Jayme>Maria de la Cruz Jayme>Maria Antonia Ortiz> Francisca
Pisana>Maria Nieves Munis>Romanita Rodriquez Ramos>Antonio Ramon
Gonzales>Anthony Richard Gonzales>Rosanne Gonzales

I am related to the Romo de Vivar family 3 times and so far the Gonzales de
Hermosillos's twice.

Rose
Fresno, CA

Rose,

Here is a quote from the prologue by Mariano Gonzalez Leal in the book, Los Duran de Nochistlan.

" Tambien hubo en Nochistlán, sangre Genovesa, como la de los Lavezzari-aqui conocidos por Lavezares, de quienes atrás hemos hablado-y la de los Lomellini -aqui reputados Lomelines-, Carlos de Lomelin, a quien en la Relacion del siglo XVII se le hace, curiosamente, español de los Reinos de Genova, procedia de una de las siete Casas Nobles de Génova, y fue estanciero próspero en Mexticacán. Establecido alli por 1624, casó con doña Maria de Benavides, descendiente del viejo linaje Nochistlense de ese apellido, habiendo nacido de alli cinco vástagos: Gaspar, Carlos, Juana, Domingo y Maria.

Juana casó en Nochistlán el 12 de Septiembre de 1621 con Rodrigo de Carbajal y Ulloa; y viuda, pasó a segundas nupcias con el Jalostitlense Don Francisco Gutiérrez de Hermosillo, hijo del capitán Francisco Gutiérrez Rubio y de Doña Leonor de Hermosillo. Por estas vias, gran parte de los linajes Jalostitlenses remontan su ascendencia a los Lomelines de Nochistlan.

Domingo unió su vida a la de doña Juana de Mendoza, Jalostitlense; hija de Manuel Gómez y de doña Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza. Cuatro varones y dos hembras resultaron del connubio; a traves de tres de ellos se extendió generosamente el apellido en la región.

Maria de Lomelin y de Benavides casó con el criollo de la ciudad de Mejico, Don Nicolas Pérez de Contreras. Una hija de este matrimonio, Juana, que fue bautizada en Nochistlan el 3 de Febrere de 1643, casó, casi niña, con don Pedro Gallaga Mandarte y Rodriguez, hijo de Don Pedro y de doña Anna. Del matrimonio surgio el linage alteño de los Gallagas, rama materna del sacerdote y guerrillero don Miguel Hidalgo-Costilla y Gallaga-Mandarte.

End of quote. There is much more information about the Lomellin's but since it is not indexed for the names it is time consuming to extract specific information and have not had the time to do it yet.

Alicia
San Jose, Ca

Rose Hardy wrote:

Does anyone know of any books, websites, passenger ship records regarding Italians immigrating to Mexico say during the late 1500's to early 1800's? I've checked out the Archivos Espanoles En Red website: http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/index_aer.jsp to see if I could find my Italian ancestors who settled in Mexico, via Spain, but have come up with a big zero. I have a copy of the book " La Emigracion Castellana y Leonesa al Nuevo Mundo 1517-1700" by Maria del Carmen Martinez Martinez and nothing in there as well.

The surnames involved are Lomellin, Lomelli (Carlos Lomellini about 1600, children and grandchildren in Nochistlan, Zacatecas) and Durazzo around Hermosillo, San Miguel de Horcasitas, Sonora in the late 1700's to early 1800's.

Thanks
Rose
Fresno, CA

Hi Rose,

I too descend from Carlos Lomellini through two of Juana Lomelin's
daughters. I also descend from Magdalena de Lavezares and have the same
interest you do in learning about Italians in Mexico. I have found
references to these lines in Mariano Gonzalez-Leal's book "Retoños de España
en la Nueva Galicia" Tomo II. There are also chapters In Jose Luis
Vazquez's book on Genealogia de Nochistlan that trace the Lomellini's and
the Lavezares descendancy.

I would be happy to exchange data with you. Please e-mail me directly.

Maria Cortez

Message: 14
> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:00:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Alicia Carrillo
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Italians in Mexico
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID: <20060715170039.42643.qmail@web81614.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Rose,
>
> Here is a quote from the prologue by Mariano Gonzalez Leal in the book,
> Los Duran de Nochistlan.
>
> " Tambien hubo en Nochistl?n, sangre Genovesa, como la de los
> Lavezzari-aqui conocidos por Lavezares, de quienes atr?s hemos hablado-y la
> de los Lomellini -aqui reputados Lomelines-, Carlos de Lomelin, a quien en
> la Relacion del siglo XVII se le hace, curiosamente, espa?ol de los Reinos
> de Genova, procedia de una de las siete Casas Nobles de G?nova, y fue
> estanciero pr?spero en Mexticac?n. Establecido alli por 1624, cas? con do?a
> Maria de Benavides, descendiente del viejo linaje Nochistlense de ese
> apellido, habiendo nacido de alli cinco v?stagos: Gaspar, Carlos, Juana,
> Domingo y Maria.
>
> Juana cas? en Nochistl?n el 12 de Septiembre de 1621 con Rodrigo de
> Carbajal y Ulloa; y viuda, pas? a segundas nupcias con el Jalostitlense Don
> Francisco Guti?rrez de Hermosillo, hijo del capit?n Francisco Guti?rrez
> Rubio y de Do?a Leonor de Hermosillo. Por estas vias, gran parte de los
> linajes Jalostitlenses remontan su ascendencia a los Lomelines de
> Nochistlan.
>
> Domingo uni? su vida a la de do?a Juana de Mendoza, Jalostitlense; hija de
> Manuel G?mez y de do?a Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza. Cuatro varones y dos
> hembras resultaron del connubio; a traves de tres de ellos se extendi?
> generosamente el apellido en la regi?n.
>
> Maria de Lomelin y de Benavides cas? con el criollo de la ciudad de
> Mejico, Don Nicolas P?rez de Contreras. Una hija de este matrimonio, Juana,
> que fue bautizada en Nochistlan el 3 de Febrere de 1643, cas?, casi ni?a,
> con don Pedro Gallaga Mandarte y Rodriguez, hijo de Don Pedro y de do?a
> Anna. Del matrimonio surgio el linage alte?o de los Gallagas, rama materna
> del sacerdote y guerrillero don Miguel Hidalgo-Costilla y Gallaga-Mandarte.
>
> End of quote. There is much more information about the Lomellin's but
> since it is not indexed for the names it is time consuming to extract
> specific information and have not had the time to do it yet.
>
> Alicia
> San Jose, Ca
>
> Rose Hardy wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of any books, websites, passenger ship records regarding
> Italians immigrating to Mexico say during the late 1500's to early 1800's?
> I've checked out the Archivos Espanoles En Red website:
> http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/index_aer.jsp to see if I could find my Italian
> ancestors who settled in Mexico, via Spain, but have come up with a big
> zero. I have a copy of the book " La Emigracion Castellana y Leonesa al
> Nuevo Mundo 1517-1700" by Maria del Carmen Martinez Martinez and nothing in
> there as well.
>
> The surnames involved are Lomellin, Lomelli (Carlos Lomellini about 1600,
> children and grandchildren in Nochistlan, Zacatecas) and Durazzo around
> Hermosillo, San Miguel de Horcasitas, Sonora in the late 1700's to early
> 1800's.
>
> Thanks
> Rose
> Fresno, CA

Maria, I been stuck on my mother's Lomeli line. I can trace back to 1849 Mexticacan. This is when Jacinto de Lomeli married Maria Onofre Gomez.
I'd love to see your gedcom on the website, so I may search for missing links.
My gedcom is online.

Enrique Legaspi Frias

Maria Cortez wrote:
Hi Rose,

I too descend from Carlos Lomellini through two of Juana Lomelin's
daughters. I also descend from Magdalena de Lavezares and have the same
interest you do in learning about Italians in Mexico. I have found
references to these lines in Mariano Gonzalez-Leal's book "Retoños de España
en la Nueva Galicia" Tomo II. There are also chapters In Jose Luis
Vazquez's book on Genealogia de Nochistlan that trace the Lomellini's and
the Lavezares descendancy.

I would be happy to exchange data with you. Please e-mail me directly.

Maria Cortez

Message: 14
> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:00:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Alicia Carrillo
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Italians in Mexico
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID: <20060715170039.42643.qmail@web81614.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Rose,
>
> Here is a quote from the prologue by Mariano Gonzalez Leal in the book,
> Los Duran de Nochistlan.
>
> " Tambien hubo en Nochistl?n, sangre Genovesa, como la de los
> Lavezzari-aqui conocidos por Lavezares, de quienes atr?s hemos hablado-y la
> de los Lomellini -aqui reputados Lomelines-, Carlos de Lomelin, a quien en
> la Relacion del siglo XVII se le hace, curiosamente, espa?ol de los Reinos
> de Genova, procedia de una de las siete Casas Nobles de G?nova, y fue
> estanciero pr?spero en Mexticac?n. Establecido alli por 1624, cas? con do?a
> Maria de Benavides, descendiente del viejo linaje Nochistlense de ese
> apellido, habiendo nacido de alli cinco v?stagos: Gaspar, Carlos, Juana,
> Domingo y Maria.
>
> Juana cas? en Nochistl?n el 12 de Septiembre de 1621 con Rodrigo de
> Carbajal y Ulloa; y viuda, pas? a segundas nupcias con el Jalostitlense Don
> Francisco Guti?rrez de Hermosillo, hijo del capit?n Francisco Guti?rrez
> Rubio y de Do?a Leonor de Hermosillo. Por estas vias, gran parte de los
> linajes Jalostitlenses remontan su ascendencia a los Lomelines de
> Nochistlan.
>
> Domingo uni? su vida a la de do?a Juana de Mendoza, Jalostitlense; hija de
> Manuel G?mez y de do?a Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza. Cuatro varones y dos
> hembras resultaron del connubio; a traves de tres de ellos se extendi?
> generosamente el apellido en la regi?n.
>
> Maria de Lomelin y de Benavides cas? con el criollo de la ciudad de
> Mejico, Don Nicolas P?rez de Contreras. Una hija de este matrimonio, Juana,
> que fue bautizada en Nochistlan el 3 de Febrere de 1643, cas?, casi ni?a,
> con don Pedro Gallaga Mandarte y Rodriguez, hijo de Don Pedro y de do?a
> Anna. Del matrimonio surgio el linage alte?o de los Gallagas, rama materna
> del sacerdote y guerrillero don Miguel Hidalgo-Costilla y Gallaga-Mandarte.
>
> End of quote. There is much more information about the Lomellin's but
> since it is not indexed for the names it is time consuming to extract
> specific information and have not had the time to do it yet.
>
> Alicia
> San Jose, Ca
>
> Rose Hardy wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of any books, websites, passenger ship records regarding
> Italians immigrating to Mexico say during the late 1500's to early 1800's?
> I've checked out the Archivos Espanoles En Red website:
> http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/index_aer.jsp to see if I could find my Italian
> ancestors who settled in Mexico, via Spain, but have come up with a big
> zero. I have a copy of the book " La Emigracion Castellana y Leonesa al
> Nuevo Mundo 1517-1700" by Maria del Carmen Martinez Martinez and nothing in
> there as well.
>
> The surnames involved are Lomellin, Lomelli (Carlos Lomellini about 1600,
> children and grandchildren in Nochistlan, Zacatecas) and Durazzo around
> Hermosillo, San Miguel de Horcasitas, Sonora in the late 1700's to early
> 1800's.
>
> Thanks
> Rose
> Fresno, CA

Rose,

I have done the same thing you have--looked at the AER for a ship passenger
record and found nothing. I concluded that my ancestors must have sailed
out of the Porto di Genova which was one of the major ports in medieval
times. I have not been able to find out if any records exist for that
port. I did find this website on Italians all over Latinamerica. It is
excellent and contains a lot of information. Here is the link:
http://www.apellidositalianos.com.ar/ According to the website the ship
departure records for the Porto di Genova were destroyed during the second
world war, but some archives are still available. They list this address:

*Autorita Portuale di
Genova
*

Porto di Genova - Archivo Storico
via della Mercanzia 2
16123 Genova

Tel. 39-010-2412330 / 2412319
Fax: 39-010-241 2397
info@porto.genova.it

emigrazione@porto.genova.it

Si bien los registros de salidas de pasajeros desde el puerto de Génova
fueron destruidos en la segunda guerra, aun conservan algunos archivos.

En el Palacio San Giorgio se encuentra el Archivo
Históricoy
el Archivo
FotográficoAllí
conservan documentación histórica desde 1870 a 1945. Está abierto
todos
los dias de 9 a 17 hs.

Teléfonos: 010 - 241.2625 y 010 - 241.2714

Otra posibilidad es comunicarse con el:

Autorita Portuale di
Napoli

Secretario General

*Dr. Pietro Capogreco*
Tel.: 39-081 - 206485

Fax: 39-081 - 206888
E-mail: p.capogreco@porto.napoli.it

If I find anything more I'll share it with the group.

Maria

>> Rose Hardy wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know of any books, websites, passenger ship records
>> regarding Italians immigrating to Mexico say during the late 1500's
>> to early 1800's?
>> I've checked out the Archivos Espanoles En Red website:
>> http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/index_aer.jsp to see if I could find my
>> Italian ancestors who settled in Mexico, via Spain, but have come up
>> with a big zero. I have a copy of the book " La Emigracion Castellana

>> y Leonesa al Nuevo Mundo 1517-1700" by Maria del Carmen Martinez
>> Martinez and nothing in there as well.
>>
>> The surnames involved are Lomellin, Lomelli (Carlos Lomellini about
>> 1600, children and grandchildren in Nochistlan, Zacatecas) and
>> Durazzo around Hermosillo, San Miguel de Horcasitas, Sonora in the
>> late 1700's to early 1800's.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Rose
>> Fresno, CA

Maria:

I am not sure, but I don't believe there were legal sailings from Genova to Mexico in the 1500s. Spain maintained a strict trade monopoly with its colonies and I would imagine that would imply that non-Spanish ships could not sail to her colonies... I will investigate. That does not necessarily mean they did not. I know there were lots of illegal sailings especially to smuggle out goods and smuggle in people who could not get licensias (Jews).

Here is a Lomeli from AER. It is the woman with the name Lomeli but taking maternal last names was common in the 1500s.

Archivo Archivo General de Indias
Código de referencia ES.41091.AGI/16419//PASAJEROS,L.1,E.2939
Título JUAN BAPTISTA VACO
Alcance y Contenido JUAN BAPTISTA VACO [sic], hijo de Gonzalo Vasto [sic] y de María Espíndola, marido de Isabel Lomeli, natural de Génova.
Nivel de Descripción Unidad Documental Simple
Fecha(s) [c] 1526-08-30
Signatura(s) PASAJEROS,L.1,E.2939
Volumen
Productor(es) Información de Contexto
Unidades Relacionadas
Por Procedencia CONTRATACION,5536,L.2,F.33

Maria:

I am not sure, but I don't believe there were legal sailings from Genova to Mexico in the 1500s. Spain maintained a strict trade monopoly with its colonies and I would imagine that would imply that non-Spanish ships could not sail to her colonies... I will investigate. That does not necessarily mean they did not. I know there were lots of illegal sailings especially to smuggle out goods and smuggle in people who could not get licensias (Jews).

Here is a Lomeli from AER. It is the woman with the name Lomeli but taking maternal last names was common in the 1500s.

Archivo Archivo General de Indias
Código de referencia ES.41091.AGI/16419//PASAJEROS,L.1,E.2939
Título JUAN BAPTISTA VACO
Alcance y Contenido JUAN BAPTISTA VACO [sic], hijo de Gonzalo Vasto [sic] y de María Espíndola, marido de Isabel Lomeli, natural de Génova.
Nivel de Descripción Unidad Documental Simple
Fecha(s) [c] 1526-08-30
Signatura(s) PASAJEROS,L.1,E.2939
Volumen
Productor(es) Información de Contexto
Unidades Relacionadas
Por Procedencia CONTRATACION,5536,L.2,F.33

Maria:

I am not sure, but I don't believe there were legal sailings from Genova to Mexico in the 1500s. Spain maintained a strict trade monopoly with its colonies and I would imagine that would imply that non-Spanish ships could not sail to her colonies... I will investigate. That does not necessarily mean they did not. I know there were lots of illegal sailings especially to smuggle out goods and smuggle in people who could not get licensias (Jews).

Here is a Lomeli from AER. It is the woman with the name Lomeli but taking maternal last names was common in the 1500s.

Archivo Archivo General de Indias
Código de referencia ES.41091.AGI/16419//PASAJEROS,L.1,E.2939
Título JUAN BAPTISTA VACO
Alcance y Contenido JUAN BAPTISTA VACO [sic], hijo de Gonzalo Vasto [sic] y de María Espíndola, marido de Isabel Lomeli, natural de Génova.
Nivel de Descripción Unidad Documental Simple
Fecha(s) [c] 1526-08-30
Signatura(s) PASAJEROS,L.1,E.2939
Volumen
Productor(es) Información de Contexto
Unidades Relacionadas
Por Procedencia CONTRATACION,5536,L.2,F.33

Enter "LOMELIN" in the first search field and then add another search field and enter "PASAJERO" These are just the listings for passengers to Mexico. There are many more mostly to Cartagena de Indias (Colombia).

Código de referencia ES.41091.AGI/16419//PASAJEROS,L.5,E.3166
Título BRIGIDA LOMELIN
Alcance y Contenido BRIGIDA LOMELIN, natural de Tudela, hija de Juan Martínez y de Catalina Lomelin, a Nueva España, como criada de don Antonio Velázquez de Bazán.
Nivel de Descripción Unidad Documental Simple
Fecha(s) [c] 1571-07-06
Signatura(s) PASAJEROS,L.5,E.3166

Código de referencia ES.41091.AGI/16419//PASAJEROS,L.11,E.353
Título LICENCIADO PEDRO DE BARRIENTOS LOMELIN
Alcance y Contenido LICENCIADO PEDRO DE BARRIENTOS LOMELIN, Racionero de la Catedral de México, a Nueva España. Información y licencia en CONTRATACION,5395,N.59
Nivel de Descripción Unidad Documental Simple
Fecha(s) [c] 1626-07-06
Signatura(s) PASAJEROS,L.11,E.353

Código de referencia ES.41091.AGI/16404.42.3.188//CONTRATACION,5395,N.59
Título PEDRO DE BARRIENTOS LOMELIN
Alcance y Contenido Expediente de información y licencia de pasajero a indias del licenciado Pedro de Barrientos Lomelín, racionero de la catedral de México, con sus criados Juan de la Cruz y Pedro Rodríguez, éste natural y vecino de Sevilla, hijo de Antonio Rodríguez y de Mariana Cid, a Nueva España. Fecha de la licencia
Nivel de Descripción Unidad Documental Compuesta
Fecha(s) [f] 1626-07-03
Signatura(s) CONTRATACION,5395,N.59

Código de referencia ES.41091.AGI/16419//PASAJEROS,L.4,E.1726
Título JOSE LOMELIN
Alcance y Contenido JOSE LOMELIN, natural de Génova, vecino de México, hijo de Domingo Lomelín y de Margarita, a Nueva España, de donde es vecino.
Nivel de Descripción Unidad Documental Simple
Fecha(s) [c] 1562-01-26
Signatura(s) PASAJEROS,L.4,E.1726

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