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My name is Ruth Olivar Millan. My name was changed by my parents J.Luciano Olivar and Maria de Jesus Ramirez to "Ruth" after confusion developed in elementary school regarding all The Jose' and Maria's with the Olivar surname. I was born in the San Joaquin Valley Cal. My dad was born in Nebraska and most of my uncles and aunts were born in the Mid west. They were deported from the USA in the 30's to Mexico...Laos Altos where my father met my mother "Chuy la Huera' (from el Rancho de Santa Ysabel, Jalisco). there was an all call during WWII and my dad returned to the US.
On my tree I have Juan Olivar -Cresencia Padilla(Padilla goes back 3 more generations) married 1859 (and all their children) and cousins around San Juan de los Lagos Jalisco. His father was another Juan Jose Olivar (1939) on a boat from Europe to Puebla. Jose Ana Olivar married M. Tomasa Gonzales 1879 then took off to the states to build the railroad with M.Crecencia Gutierrez where they had several children (I have this and much more documented) including early photo.
My mother (Ramirez- Perez-Gonzales) was born on the Rancho de Santa Ysabel, Jalisco .(1920) to M. Ysabel Perez and Pio Ramirez. She was raised by her grandfather Cipriano Perez and his second wife M. ALejandra Gonzales.My mother was an orphan so things are based on rumors and cuentos. When Cipriano/ mama janda died she went to live with Domitila Perez, aunt married to a Reynoso that turns out to be related to my dad on the Padilla side.
I make a life time of "Family Tree" research very short. I have visited villages were people look exactly like me....and are really really are related.
By the way there is a lady way back in my tree that is a Gutierrez and her parents/father were Chon which is Chinese.....Most people got off the boat in.Vera CruzMexico.
I speak several Languages.

Peace, and I'm here to find family
Cuca

Ruth/Cuca,
My mother-in-law Maria Refugio Perez, born 1903 in Nochistlan, came to the
USA in 1911. She was also known by the name of Ruth, as well as Cuca by
family members. Is there a connection or story why a person named Ruth,
is also called Cuca? What does Cuca mean?
Pat Silva Corbera

Cuca is the standard nickname for Refugio... Cuco would be a male Refugio and Cuca is a female refugio. It has a completely different meaning in Colombia but I digress...

So anyhow, Refugio translates as Ruth thus Ruths are Cucas by double translation. I have an aunt, a (now deceased) grandmother and a niece all named Refugio or Ruth and we call them all Cuca... so there is the abuelita Cuca, the tia Cuca and "Cookie"

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Pat Silva Corbera

Hace 18 years 4 months

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Arturo,
Thank you so much for this explanation. When I asked Tino about it he said,
"that's what they always called her." When I share what you have written,
he will be very surprised.
Oh! And yes we also have a "Cookie." One of Tino's nieces another Ruth is
known as "Cookie."
Pat Silva Corbera

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longsjourney

Hace 18 years 4 months

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Hi Pat, translations of names from one language to another is always interesting. My American born father was named Aniceto but in English it translates to Chet, his brother was named Bonefacio but since he was tall and lanky people thought Bony was for his look so he had it legally changed to Peter! My uncle was born in Tamazula but came to this country when he was 2 years old, his legal name was Maria Guadalupe but everyone called him Lupe then he had it legally changes to Luis.. I got confused when I tried to find his baptism record thinking Maria Guadalupe was girl I had never heard of.. My gr-grandparents were always called Mama grande and Papa grande.

Linda in B.C.

papagaia2 wrote:
Arturo,
Thank you so much for this explanation. When I asked Tino about it he said,
"that's what they always called her." When I share what you have written,
he will be very surprised.
Oh! And yes we also have a "Cookie." One of Tino's nieces another Ruth is
known as "Cookie."
Pat Silva Corbera

---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

I have always wondered whether there are English translations for the following names:

Diego
Santiago

and of course, the translations of Nahuatl names are interesting:

Xochitl = Flor = Flower
Citlatli = Estela = Stella = Star
Yoltzin = Corazonsito = Small Heart
Cuauhtemoc = Aguila Descendiente = Descending Eagle
Tenoch = Tuna de Piedra = Cactus Pear of Stone?

I don't know about Diego but the Santiagos in my family have all been called "Jimmy." Another one that interested me was "Chuy." My grandfather was named Jesus and people referred to him as Chuy. Didn't think much of it until I met my doctor's husband, also named Jesus, but she called him Chuy.

Olivia
Rowland Hts, CA

arturoramos wrote:
I have always wondered whether there are English translations for the following names:

Diego
Santiago

and of course, the translations of Nahuatl names are interesting:

Xochitl = Flor = Flower
Citlatli = Estela = Stella = Star
Yoltzin = Corazonsito = Small Heart
Cuauhtemoc = Aguila Descendiente = Descending Eagle
Tenoch = Tuna de Piedra = Cactus Pear of Stone?

I've always thought Diego was Spanish for James, and
Santiago is St. James (like in the Bible: Saint
James=San Diego which turned into Santiago). I could
be wrong, but that's what I've thought all these
years...

lavaniya jimenez

--- arturoramos wrote:

>
> I have always wondered whether there are English
> translations for the following names:
>
> Diego
> Santiago
>
> and of course, the translations of Nahuatl names are
> interesting:
>
> Xochitl = Flor = Flower
> Citlatli = Estela = Stella = Star
> Yoltzin = Corazonsito = Small Heart
> Cuauhtemoc = Aguila Descendiente = Descending Eagle
> Tenoch = Tuna de Piedra = Cactus Pear of Stone?
>

Both Diego and Santiago translate in English into James. Diego derives from
San Diego -- Saint James -- and Santiago is a contraction of the two words.
Santiago is also the famous battle cry used by the Spaniards in their wars
beginning with the reconquest of Spain from the Moors. In one famous
battle, the image of Saint James allegedly appeared in the sky and raised
the morale of the Spaniards to where they won.
Jose Aguayo
----- Original Message -----
From: "arturoramos"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 9:29 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Stumper Names to Translate

>
> I have always wondered whether there are English translations for the
> following names:
>
> Diego
> Santiago
>
> and of course, the translations of Nahuatl names are interesting:
>
> Xochitl = Flor = Flower
> Citlatli = Estela = Stella = Star
> Yoltzin = Corazonsito = Small Heart
> Cuauhtemoc = Aguila Descendiente = Descending Eagle
> Tenoch = Tuna de Piedra = Cactus Pear of Stone?
>

Jose, Arturo,
Yes, Diego translates into James. However, " San Tiago" translates into Saint James. Tiago is translated into James.
"San", as we all know, stands for Saint, as in San Diego, San Jose, or San Tiago, etc.
I'm not at all certain, but Tiago may be Portugese. In France it is Saint Jacques, in Italy it's Saint Giacomo.
M Bravo Lopez

Jose Aguayo wrote:
Arturo:
Both Diego and Santiago translate in English into James. Diego derives from
San Diego -- Saint James -- and Santiago is a contraction of the two words.
Santiago is also the famous battle cry used by the Spaniards in their wars
beginning with the reconquest of Spain from the Moors. In one famous
battle, the image of Saint James allegedly appeared in the sky and raised
the morale of the Spaniards to where they won.
Jose Aguayo
----- Original Message -----
From: "arturoramos"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 9:29 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Stumper Names to Translate

>
> I have always wondered whether there are English translations for the
> following names:
>
> Diego
> Santiago
>
> and of course, the translations of Nahuatl names are interesting:
>
> Xochitl = Flor = Flower
> Citlatli = Estela = Stella = Star
> Yoltzin = Corazonsito = Small Heart
> Cuauhtemoc = Aguila Descendiente = Descending Eagle
> Tenoch = Tuna de Piedra = Cactus Pear of Stone?
>

Arturo,

James is english for Santiago and Diego. Santiago from St. James

Rose

>From: arturoramos
>Reply-To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
>To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Stumper Names to Translate
>Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>I have always wondered whether there are English translations for the
>following names:
>
>Diego
>Santiago
>
>and of course, the translations of Nahuatl names are interesting:
>
>Xochitl = Flor = Flower
>Citlatli = Estela = Stella = Star
>Yoltzin = Corazonsito = Small Heart
>Cuauhtemoc = Aguila Descendiente = Descending Eagle
>Tenoch = Tuna de Piedra = Cactus Pear of Stone?
>

This has been a wonderful learning experience for me. We also have a
Guadalupe and she's known as Lupe. A paternal grandmother was named
Trinidad, and I kept finding records for Trinidad, but they were all males..
Our grandchildren call Tino "little grandpa," because he drives a much
smaller truck than their paternal grandpa, who is known as "big grandpa."
Another ancestor Maria Hilaria, upon coming to the US was known as Andrea,
a shortened version of her last name of Andrada/e.
Pat

Pat,

Although this was not addressed to me I will dare to reply. My maternal grandmother's name was Maria del Refugio Ruiz, Esparza and everybody called her Cuca. My great aunt, was also named Maria del Refugio. She was my maternal grandfather's sister and she was also called "Cuca" so the answer to your question is all or most Refugios are called "Cuca" which is the shortened term of endearment for Refugio. The male Refugios are called "Cuco" instead of "Cuca" and as we know they are usually Jose del Refugio as in my maternal Great grandfather. Jose del Refugio Ruiz, Muñoz and my mom and uncles referred to him as " Papa Cuco".

Alicia

----- Original Message ----
From: papagaia2
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:47:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] New member/Introduction

Ruth/Cuca,
My mother-in-law Maria Refugio Perez, born 1903 in Nochistlan, came to the
USA in 1911. She was also known by the name of Ruth, as well as Cuca by
family members. Is there a connection or story why a person named Ruth,
is also called Cuca? What does Cuca mean?
Pat Silva Corbera

Dear Alicia,

I'm still looking for that ancestor that will link Tino's family and yours!
I'm so grateful for all your help, so please, "jump in," as you have, even
though I may not address my questions to a specific individual, it's the
group participation that counts!
Thank you so much for adding to the explanation of why Tino's mom Refugio
was called Ruth as well as Cuca.
;-)
Pat

Alicia,

I too dare to reply (or put in my dos centavos) re nicknames: Could it be that nicknames resulted from a child's inability to pronounce their names? For example, a child usually only picks up on a couple of syllables of a name, it seems. The Queen of England is nicknamed Lilibet (what she would say her name was when she was a child--for Elizabeth), and I was---and still am referred to by older relatives as-- Mili (pronounced mee-lee) since I used to answer that when asked what my name was (Emilia). So I figure that a child would say "cuco" for Refugio, no?

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA --
----- Original Message -----
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] New member/Introduction

Pat,

Although this was not addressed to me I will dare to reply. My maternal grandmother's name was Maria del Refugio Ruiz, Esparza and everybody called her Cuca. My great aunt, was also named Maria del Refugio. She was my maternal grandfather's sister and she was also called "Cuca" so the answer to your question is all or most Refugios are called "Cuca" which is the shortened term of endearment for Refugio. The male Refugios are called "Cuco" instead of "Cuca" and as we know they are usually Jose del Refugio as in my maternal Great grandfather. Jose del Refugio Ruiz, Muñoz and my mom and uncles referred to him as " Papa Cuco".

Alicia

----- Original Message ----
From: papagaia2 >
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:47:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] New member/Introduction

Ruth/Cuca,
My mother-in-law Maria Refugio Perez, born 1903 in Nochistlan, came to the
USA in 1911. She was also known by the name of Ruth, as well as Cuca by
family members. Is there a connection or story why a person named Ruth,
is also called Cuca? What does Cuca mean?
Pat Silva Corbera

I have always found it curious where some nicknames come from. I understand nicknames when they are a shorter version of the original name or as Emilie says, a childs version of name (but those names are not standard). The standard nicknames seem to not even be related to the orignal name like:

Refugio = Cuca
Jose = Pepe
Juan = Paco
Francisco = Pancho
Jesus = Chuy

Today, I think many people with hispanic names are either translating there name, ie

Carlos = Charles
Diego = James
Esperanza = Hope

Or they just pick the closest name to their original name:
Hilario = Larry
Jesus = Jesse

Which by the way, Jesus translates to Joshua. And I don't think Refugio translates to Ruth. Sounds more like they just picked the closest 'R' name.

Just my two centavos,
Angie Godina

Angie:

I beg to differ that they just picked the closest "R" name. In English Ruth means

1. Compassion or pity for another.
2. Sorrow or misery about one's own misdeeds or flaws.

Refugio, while not an exact translation of that concept is pretty close and thus considered a translation of that name.

As far as Jesus and Joshua, you are correct. They are both derivatives from the Hebrew Yehoshua (the name of Moses' successor as leader). One is derivative through the Greek transliteration Iasous, while the other is more directly adapted from the Hebrew.

Some other nicknames:

Rosario = Chayo
Enrique = Quico
Eduardo = Lalo

One question, how does Diego become James? I thought James translated as Jaime.

>One question, how does Diego become James? I thought James translated as Jaime

According to my source here are the different translations of James:

Nicknames and/or short form(s):
Jaimey Jaimie Jamey Jamie Jaymie Jemmy Jim Jimmie Jimmy Jem Jimbo

Alternate form(s):
Jacob Jame Jamison Jameson Jascha Jaymes

Feminine form(s):
Jaimie Jamie

Breton form(s):
Jagu

Cornish form(s):
Jago

Dutch form(s):
Jacques

French form(s):
Jacques

Hawaiian form(s):
Kimo

Irish Gaelic form(s):
S‚amus

Italian form(s):
Iago Diego Giacomo

Portuguese form(s):
Jaime Tiago Diogo

Scots Gaelic form(s):
Seamus S‚amus Hamish

Spanish form(s):
Diego Jaime

Welsh form(s):
Iago

James, which is a variation of Jacob, means "he who supplants".

James in Spanish is Santiago, as in the "Epístola de Santiago" (James
Epistle).

Santiago has an alternate form as Diego.

Jaime is also a translation of James.

The nickname for a Santiago is Chago.

Other nicknames:

Hilaria= Laya
Isaura= Chawa, Chava (also for Salvador)
Enrique= Kike
Francisco=Quico, Paco, Pancho, Cisco ( I have never heard Quico used for
Enrique. Heard it here for the first time)
Socorro=Coco
Dolores=Lola, Lolo (male)
Eulalio=Lalo
Eulalia=Lala
Anastacio=Tacho

John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.
1gnzlz@verizon.net

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "arturoramos"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:24 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Name Translations

> Some other nicknames:
>
> Rosario = Chayo
> Enrique = Quico
> Eduardo = Lalo
>
>

Galdino = Galo, Gally

What would the English translation for Nicanor be? Is it a form of
Nicholas/Nicolas?
Pat Silva Corbera

>What would the English translation for Nicanor be? Is it a form of
>Nicholas/Nicolas?

Nicolas
This boy's name is used in French and Spanish. It corresponds to the English name Nicholas.

Nicholas
This boy's name is used in English and Romanian. Its source is Nikolaos, a Greek name meaning "Victorious people."

Nicanor
This boy's name is used in Spanish. Its source is nike aner, a Greek phrase meaning "Victorious man."

Nike
This girl's name is used in Greek. Its source is a Greek expression meaning "Victory." Also, Nike was the name of the ancient Greek goddess of victory.

Apparently the two names have the same root of Nike.

Angie

Good Evening All, My mother's family is from Zacatecas/Aguascalientes/Jalisco. Due to various unfortunate reasons, family information is very scarce. I am at the beginning of my family search,and all I know can be summed-up very quickly. My mother's paternal family name is Onate, while her maternal family name is Santelices. I only have names for my greatgrandfather Rosalio Onate, his children Adolfo, Maria de los Angeles, Luis (my grandfather), and Leonarda. The only Santelices names I have are my grandmother Agustina Santelices (no known siblings)and her father Francisco Santelices. I have no birth dates or places for anyone.
Any help from anyone would be very appreciated. Alice B. Blake

--- teacozygran@kc.rr.com wrote:

From: "M. Vallazza"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:01:17 -0500

Hi, Esther,
some of your Zacatecas names are definitely related to mine--Zaldivar,
Bañuelos, Velasco, Oñate, and Treviño. Marge V:)

>
> Zecatecas: Zavala, Sepulveda, Trevino, Robles, Elizondo, Ybarra, La
> Mancha, Munguia, Ayala, Velasco, Banuelos, Urdinola, Garza, Farias
> Del Canto, Zaldivar, Onate, La Mancha,
>
> Nuevo Leon:
> Ayala, Arredondo, Sepulveda, Garza, Villarreal, Arriola, Elizondo,
> ANcira, Yslas Palacios, Farias, Garcia, Zaldivar, Trevino, Flores,
> Ramos Arriola, Yslas Palacios, Barrera, Munguia, Cantu, Fernandez,
> Pinto, Rivas, Los Santos, Casas, Rodriguez Montemayor, Montemayor,
>
> San Luis Potosi:
> Lobo Guerrero, Pinto, Galvez, Acosta, Los Santos, Ramos Arriola,
> Zaldivar, Melendez
>
> Guanajuato:
> Lobo Guerrero, Acosta,
>

this is the only Francisco Santelice I found in Zacatecas, but with some
careful digging who knows what you can come up with:

FRANCISCO SANTELICES
Male Family

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Marriages:
Spouse: MARIA VALDERAMA Family
Marriage:
20 APR 1882 San Juan Bautista, Panuco, Zacatecas, Mexico

Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The
source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type:
Printout Call No.: Type:
M607151 1880 - 1885 1092766

--------------------

joseph

AliceBB wrote:

>Good Evening All, My mother's family is from Zacatecas/Aguascalientes/Jalisco. Due to various unfortunate reasons, family information is very scarce. I am at the beginning of my family search,and all I know can be summed-up very quickly. My mother's paternal family name is Onate, while her maternal family name is Santelices. I only have names for my greatgrandfather Rosalio Onate, his children Adolfo, Maria de los Angeles, Luis (my grandfather), and Leonarda. The only Santelices names I have are my grandmother Agustina Santelices (no known siblings)and her father Francisco Santelices. I have no birth dates or places for anyone.
>Any help from anyone would be very appreciated. Alice B. Blake
>
>
>
>

What documents do you have for them? Start with documents and what they say death certificates, birth certificates, ss# application.

Esther
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from AliceBB : --------------

> Good Evening All, My mother's family is from Zacatecas/Aguascalientes/Jalisco.
> Due to various unfortunate reasons, family information is very scarce. I am at
> the beginning of my family search,and all I know can be summed-up very quickly.
> My mother's paternal family name is Onate, while her maternal family name is
> Santelices. I only have names for my greatgrandfather Rosalio Onate, his
> children Adolfo, Maria de los Angeles, Luis (my grandfather), and Leonarda. The
> only Santelices names I have are my grandmother Agustina Santelices (no known
> siblings)and her father Francisco Santelices. I have no birth dates or places
> for anyone.
> Any help from anyone would be very appreciated. Alice B. Blake
>
> --- teacozygran@kc.rr.com wrote:
>
> From: "M. Vallazza"
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Introduction
> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:01:17 -0500
>
> Hi, Esther,
> some of your Zacatecas names are definitely related to mine--Zaldivar,
> Ba

Angie,

Wouldn't the original names in the original languages have been pronounced differently? For example, Jose might have been originally Josep like in Latin (or in Italian Giuseppe) for Jose? The "j" in Jesus might have been pronounced like the "j" in "just" which sounds more like the "ch" sound in Chuy. Pancho sounds like the Franco I have heard in other languages. Refugio may have had a hard g in there making it sound like "cuco" to a child who could not pronounce all the syllables.

My husband just gave me more nicknames: Chava (Salvador), Chago (Santiago), Yoya (Gloria). His name is Antonio, but we have always called him Tony, of course a short version of his name. His brother is Henry (Enrique) and that may have come from the French Henri.

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: aajay1073
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 12:06 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicknames and Name translations

I have always found it curious where some nicknames come from. I understand nicknames when they are a shorter version of the original name or as Emilie says, a childs version of name (but those names are not standard). The standard nicknames seem to not even be related to the orignal name like:

Refugio = Cuca
Jose = Pepe
Juan = Paco
Francisco = Pancho
Jesus = Chuy

Today, I think many people with hispanic names are either translating there name, ie

Carlos = Charles
Diego = James
Esperanza = Hope

Or they just pick the closest name to their original name:
Hilario = Larry
Jesus = Jesse

Which by the way, Jesus translates to Joshua. And I don't think Refugio translates to Ruth. Sounds more like they just picked the closest 'R' name.

Just my two centavos,
Angie Godina

History, Culture and General Discussion