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Por Maureen Bejar |

I have just found a 1906 Valle de Guadalupe baptism that lists my maternal grandfather-in-law and mother-in-law as sponsors and gives me some info about them, but I need a little help. The microfilm is poor and flowering script is almost driving me mad. Here is what I think it says .....padrinos Julian Alviso casada labrador de cuarenta an~os originario de San Miguel y su esposa Catarina Jauregui de veinte y ocho an~os de edad originaria del hijo de Ayaca y vecinos de Mexcala......

I am pretty sure it states Julian is married, a farmer and 40 years old from San Miguel, and his wife, Catarina Jauregui is 28 years old. But then it says Catarina is a "son of Ayaca"? The word hijo is questionable as the h and i are looped together at the beginning which looks like a large "o" with a small "o" inside, but the "jo" at the end is definite. I tried to find Ayaca out on the Interent, but I could not find the place name even in the little site listed from a previous Nuestros forum topic. Is anyone familiar with the term or place Ayaca? I have found it referenced as a type of tree. Also, why would Catarina be listed as a hijo and not a hija? The place Mexcala is the Ranch where most of the younger children were born.

Thanks again for any help!

Suggestion. Scan it and upload the scan to the appropriate folder in the
Albums area. Once there send us another email and list the URL location
to the Albums area so we can take a look and give you a better Idea.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Maureen Bejar wrote:
> I have just found a 1906 Valle de Guadalupe baptism that lists my maternal grandfather-in-law and mother-in-law as sponsors and gives me some info about them, but I need a little help. The microfilm is poor and flowering script is almost driving me mad. Here is what I think it says .....padrinos Julian Alviso casada labrador de cuarenta an~os originario de San Miguel y su esposa Catarina Jauregui de veinte y ocho an~os de edad originaria del hijo de Ayaca y vecinos de Mexcala......
>
> I am pretty sure it states Julian is married, a farmer and 40 years old from San Miguel, and his wife, Catarina Jauregui is 28 years old. But then it says Catarina is a "son of Ayaca"? The word hijo is questionable as the h and i are looped together at the beginning which looks like a large "o" with a small "o" inside, but the "jo" at the end is definite. I tried to find Ayaca out on the Interent, but I could not find the place name even in the little site listed from a previous Nuestros forum topic. Is anyone familiar with the term or place Ayaca? I have found it referenced as a type of tree. Also, why would Catarina be listed as a hijo and not a hija? The place Mexcala is the Ranch where most of the younger children were born.
>
> Thanks again for any help!

Maureen,

Do you think it could be Ojo de Agua, Ayo el Chico, or Ayotlan? Those are some names in Jalisco that my husband's ancestors are from.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ----
----- Original Message -----
From: Maureen Bejar
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 3:11 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Origin of Catarina Jauregui

I have just found a 1906 Valle de Guadalupe baptism that lists my maternal grandfather-in-law and mother-in-law as sponsors and gives me some info about them, but I need a little help. The microfilm is poor and flowering script is almost driving me mad. Here is what I think it says .....padrinos Julian Alviso casada labrador de cuarenta an~os originario de San Miguel y su esposa Catarina Jauregui de veinte y ocho an~os de edad originaria del hijo de Ayaca y vecinos de Mexcala......

I am pretty sure it states Julian is married, a farmer and 40 years old from San Miguel, and his wife, Catarina Jauregui is 28 years old. But then it says Catarina is a "son of Ayaca"? The word hijo is questionable as the h and i are looped together at the beginning which looks like a large "o" with a small "o" inside, but the "jo" at the end is definite. I tried to find Ayaca out on the Interent, but I could not find the place name even in the little site listed from a previous Nuestros forum topic. Is anyone familiar with the term or place Ayaca? I have found it referenced as a type of tree. Also, why would Catarina be listed as a hijo and not a hija? The place Mexcala is the Ranch where most of the younger children were born.

Thanks again for any help!

Dear Emilie:
I think Ojo is the word, but the other is Ayaca. There is a flourish with the "e" in de, but then I looked at other documents from the same film and the "A" in Ayaca matches an "A" in the name Andres from a later document. In any event I will scan it and put it in the album. Thank you for you suggestions! It is hard not knowing very much Spanish and trying to decipher, but I am learning new words all the time.

Joseph, wish me luck, it is my first attempt with your instructions. I messed up my genealogy file the first time if you remember. Hope this goes better!

Thanks for your help!

Dear Emilie and Joseph:

I have scanned the document for Catarina's origin, but I have done something incorrect. It did not go into a folder, but is just floating out there. Here is the link:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15424

Joseph, can I get it into a folder and how do I do that? I guess a am old and confused!

Well your take is understandable. I don't know what it is but I'm
starting to doubt the first letter is an "A" have a look at the other 4
capital "A's" in the document and you'll see that they are big and fat
and well rounded. I don't know and would hate for you to take this as an
absolute but I also don't think the first letter is an "L" or "l" since
most if not all of the scribes "l's" have space in the loop and this
letter doesn't have any space. It kind of has the same shape as a "d" as
in compared to the other "d's" in the document but it is "spread" just a
bit and also it has the same small curl as in the beginning of a captial
"M" but then the second "hump" of the "M" is missing so that is not a
good candidate.

Hmmm, you asked for help and all I can say is what I don't think it is.
Don't really know and it might help for you to get two or three pages of
other documents surrounding that document and uploading them along with
this document so a better comparison can be made. I would guess that he
has used that letter before. And it could be that the scribes hand was
getting fatigued toward the end of the document and that is really is a
spread out "d". . .sorry to not be more help.

joseph

ps: Maureen don't talk bad about yourself being old and confused. You
were soooo close to getting it perfect and actually it was just fine if
you don't plan to add any other documents. But If you are going to
upload a few more misc surrounding doc's for comparison then the step
you missed was making up a "new" album within the folder you opened up.
Once created then you would have options to upload to that folder. I've
gone ahead and made up an album with your name in it in that same folder
"Film Record Sample Scans" for the time being I don't want to move your
scanned document as it might make your
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15424 invalid. You are way ahead of
folks that are unwillling to even try so your effort is commendable.
thanks for your participation in the group.

If you upload the documents to the Maureen Bejar folder then go ahead
and upload the same document into it again so all your documents will be
together. later we'll go in and delete this original uploaded document
after the members of the group have had a chance to view it.

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Maureen Bejar wrote:
> Dear Emilie:
> I think Ojo is the word, but the other is Ayaca. There is a flourish with the "e" in de, but then I looked at other documents from the same film and the "A" in Ayaca matches an "A" in the name Andres from a later document. In any event I will scan it and put it in the album. Thank you for you suggestions! It is hard not knowing very much Spanish and trying to decipher, but I am learning new words all the time.
>
> Joseph, wish me luck, it is my first attempt with your instructions. I messed up my genealogy file the first time if you remember. Hope this goes better!
>
> Thanks for your help!

In my opinion they weren't written by the same person. Look at the first
documents for Jose de Jesus. Look at just the first three words: "En La
Yglesia" Notice that each of these words has no "tails" while the scribe
that wrote the record for Catarina insisted in using "tails" for almost
every word. Two different scribes.

but regardless of that is sure does look like Ojo de Agua. . .its just
funny that the same scribe who wrote the Catarina document used two
different styles of Capital "A's" within the same document. It might be
worthwhile to pursue the Ojo de Agua theory since you do have an Ojo de
Agua close to San Juan de los Lagos like Irma said.

but next time you have a look at that film you could look on the same
page as you found the Catarina document and copy some of the documents
right next to your Catarina. A full two or three pages before and after.
Look for those "tails" and upload those pages I'd like to hunt for that
letter that I'm not convinced is an "A" but then you never know.

hmmm, the investigation continues. . .ultimately your opinion for your
research is the one that prevails.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Maureen Bejar wrote:
> Dear Joseph and Emilie:
> I think Emilie is correct that the place name is Ojo de Agua. I have placed another document written by the same person where the "a" is written the same. I have it in my folder in albums:
>
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15440

Dear Emilie:
Do you have any information on where I might find records for Ojo de Agua in Jalisco? Catarina would have been born between 1876 and 1877. The LDS has Oje de Agua for Chiapas, but nothing for Jalisco. I might try the Jalisco civil records for that time though. Any other leads would be wonderful. Thanks

Maureen

Actually I think there was also an Ojo de Agua listed in the Jerez Zacatecas records too..
Linda in Everett

Maureen Bejar wrote:

Dear Emilie:
Do you have any information on where I might find records for Ojo de Agua in Jalisco? Catarina would have been born between 1876 and 1877. The LDS has Oje de Agua for Chiapas, but nothing for Jalisco. I might try the Jalisco civil records for that time though. Any other leads would be wonderful. Thanks

Maureen

Hi, Maureen,

No I don't have any film numbers for Ojo de Agua in Jalisco. I got the name the way you did from a birth or marriage record for one of my husband's relatives who lived way back in the early 1800s and late 1700s in Encarnacion de Diaz, Jalisco. They had children baptized or they were married there, but it mentions in some records that they originated, meaning they had been born in Ojo de Agua, or Ayo del Chico (now Ayotlan), etc. I am just assuming the Ojo de Agua mentioned in the records of Jalisco that I was looking in was the one in Jalisco, but there are several places in Jalisco called Ojo de Agua, also many places with the same name in nearby Aguascalientes. They don't make it easy. I would just try the civil records in the towns of Jalisco, especially for the late 1800s, since by then civil registration may have been required and those records may have survived the Revolution better than the church records, maybe. There are gaps in most films I have looked at. Goo
d luck -
--

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Maureen Bejar
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 11:49 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Origin of Catarina Jauregui

Dear Emilie:
Do you have any information on where I might find records for Ojo de Agua in Jalisco? Catarina would have been born between 1876 and 1877. The LDS has Oje de Agua for Chiapas, but nothing for Jalisco. I might try the Jalisco civil records for that time though. Any other leads would be wonderful. Thanks

Maureen

Dear Linda and Emilie,
I think there are more ponds in Mexico than there are in Northwest Indiana! I think the most likely Ojo de Agua is the one just south of Tepatitlan, but I could be wrong. I still have 5 more years to look at on the microfilm, so after the holiday I will be able to finish viewing the film and maybe it will give me more clues. Catarina's brothers Vicente and Julian and her sisters Ambrosia and Trinidad were also in Valle de Guadalupe so much of the family had relocated to Valle de Guadalupe. Someone is bound to have a more descriptive baptism.

My mom is from England and her relatives from England and Australia refer to the Atlantic Ocean as the Big Pond. Now just think, hundreds of years from now, future generations are going to read some of those letters and will be trying to figure out what exactly was the Big Pond!

There is an Ojo de Agua in the Santa Maria de Los Angeles area of
Jalisco but not so sure it doesn't show up in the Colotlan records. . .I
can't remember which of these two it was that the actual records showed
up in.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Maureen Bejar wrote:
> Dear Emilie:
> Do you have any information on where I might find records for Ojo de Agua in Jalisco? Catarina would have been born between 1876 and 1877. The LDS has Oje de Agua for Chiapas, but nothing for Jalisco. I might try the Jalisco civil records for that time though. Any other leads would be wonderful. Thanks
>
> Maureen
>

Joseph,

That could be the one my husband's ancestor was born in because many of his ancestors also hailed from a "Santa Maria" (near Encarnacion de Diaz?) and others from Colotlan, also Atotonilco, Ayo el Chico, Ayotlan, Lagos de Moreno and San Juan de Los Lagos.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Puentes
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Origin of Catarina Jauregui

There is an Ojo de Agua in the Santa Maria de Los Angeles area of
Jalisco but not so sure it doesn't show up in the Colotlan records. . .I
can't remember which of these two it was that the actual records showed
up in.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Maureen Bejar wrote:
> Dear Emilie:
> Do you have any information on where I might find records for Ojo de Agua in Jalisco? Catarina would have been born between 1876 and 1877. The LDS has Oje de Agua for Chiapas, but nothing for Jalisco. I might try the Jalisco civil records for that time though. Any other leads would be wonderful. Thanks
>
> Maureen
>

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