You're right about the indigenous population disappearing and being replaced. I've had several students from Cuba and the Dominican Republic and none of them have any knowledge of the indigineous people of their islands. My parents were very light skinned Mexicans and they always told me that discrimination there is not based on race or ethnicity, but on socio-economics. That's somewhat true, yet at the same time they were always telling me to play in the shade, don't get too tanned, or runaround sweating "como una india"! Owning up to prejudice and racism is very difficult. However, it's something we all have to admit to and learn to conquer. Alice BB

--- eaherold@att.net wrote:

From: eaherold@att.net
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Monterrey & African Legacy
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 23:38:28 +0000

I believe in the early colonial period, many of the spainards coming into Mexico came in from Cuba and other parts of the caribbean. In the Carribean, as the native populations died off they were were replaced by afican slaves. Some of the spainards coming in from the caribbean had trafficed in black slaves. Black slaves were considered more reliable than indian slaves. The spainards had a system were a slave could gain his freedom according to rules that had been set down. Many of the original settlers of Monterrey had had black slaves.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Latina1955@aol.com: --------------

>
> Emilie,
> I have never thought that there was a conscious effort in destroying "actas"
> for reasons related to destroying the African presence...I've always thought
> about it as as a natural occurrence that would happen during a Revolutionary
> War (form of destroying old political governments). Your suggestions gave
> me reason to ponder that this might have occurred also during the War of
> Independence. But if I were to venture to take a guess about the family
> stories
> heard and stories of families in some pueblos who were French - but today, do
> not hold those French last names, I would more venture to guess that it had
> to do their presence not being very welcomed after Maximiliano's government
> failed. People knew who they were - but these immigrants would not necessarily
> boast their presence - perhaps they took Spanish surnames to further
> integrate themselves....as did this man's grandfather from Santiago...Further,
> I
> don't think their presence was that many---I think I read that a total of
> 50,000
> French/Austrian soldiers came in during this period - can't say I know if
> indeed most of them returned back home...it was a difficult period for French
> citizens in France.....
>
> Yes, like your family, I have siblings with blue eyes, siblings who look
> like Indios, and of course siblings that look like me (lol) - a bit of this and
> a bit of that....funny thing is that my blue eyed siblings have hair so curly,
> they need a pick to comb it....
>
> The German immigration to both the US and throughout Latin America first
> started in the early to mid 1800's, when their government was undergoing
> tremendous changes. One of the biggest exodus of course was shortly after WWI.
> I
> could go on, but my family is ushering me out the door....
>
> I really appreciated hearing your thoughts - it gives me yet another
> dimension to contemplate...
>
> Esperanza
> Chicagoland area
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/29/2006 4:51:47 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com writes:
>
> Esperanza - you said "The tracing of African heritage was stopped after the
> Mexican Independence - no doubt due to the fact that Mexico's 2nd
> president, Vicente Guerrero was a mulatto". Do you think that is the reason
> that so
> many records were destroyed after the Independence and after the Revolution?
> I heard that Hitler had his army demolish every public building in his home
> town in Austria via weapons of mass destruction (rockets, etc), and that it
> wasn't just for target practice. He wanted to be sure any records that would
> bring up a hidden Jew in his lineage would be obliterated. I hear that in
> Canada there is a move by some public official to destroy/and or deny public
> access to all family records, and some say it has to do with questions of his
> heritage or illegitimacy of birth.
>
> I also find your comments about the French and Africans in Mexico
> interesting, especially because my father, who was born in Jerez in 1903, was
> so
> prejudiced against blacks and told us that his great-grandfather was known as
> El
> Frances in his community (Tepetongo or Salitrillo) and had blue eyes. I find
> through my searches that there are only Spaniards with Basque names (like
> Olague) and that way back they intermarried with Indios and that other lines of
> his had many listed as mulato (he would have been aghast). I haven't found a
> single Frenchman in the bunch.
>
> I cannot find any birth record for my father nor his sister nor of the
> marriage of his parents. I find no record of his maternal ancestors, only his
> paternal ancestors. My father did not look like his tall, very dark, handsome,
> curly-haired cousins. He was very short, only 5 foot like me, was medium
> complexioned, "chato", and was born blond (my mother had a lock of blond hair
> given to her by his grandmother that she said had been from my father as a
> little boy). It seems so many families in Mexico place high value on light
> hair
> and skin. I am the darkest one in my family and the only one with curly
> hair. My mother couldn't figure out why I came out that way except she said
> that my father had some very dark, curly haired cousins. In other words, she
> wanted it known that I was the result of something in his background, and not
> of
> hers, ha, ha.
>
> I also wondered why there are so many people in South America with German
> and Italian surnames and their only language is Spanish. I have had to
> interpret for blond, blue-eyed people surnamed Schmidt here in the US who were
> from
> Argentina and only knew Spanish, and my husband had to interpret in Italy for
> some Argentinians of Italian descent who couldn't speak Italian to their
> cousins there in Italy.
>
> Emilie
>
>
>
>

Thank you for replying Tony, I'm still looking for that elusive Native American who's dna is Haplogroup N besides my Gutierrez line.
Linda in Everett

Tony Diaz wrote:
Linda,

My haplogroup is Q3, which I understand to be limited only to Native American populations.

If anyone would like to compare their 12-marker Y-DNA profile to mine, I would be more than happy to share.

Tony
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from U.S. Cellular

-----Original Message-----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 00:10:25
To:research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Monterrey & African Legacy

Tony, what haplogroup are you? My Uncle Louis Gutierrez is Haplogroup N and the thinking is that he's Native American since a sub-group Haplogroup N3 found in Seville Spain is thought to be from Moctezuma's retinue who were there, otherwise Haplogroup N is found in Siberia, Finland and Russia today.. I've noticed Indeginous males are usually HaplogroupQ or Q1.. and Indeginous woman are Haplogroups A, B, C or D.. My mtdna came back Haplogroup A. which would be Nahua in Mexico, Lakota, Zuni, Navajo and others in the states and Haida in Canada and Eleut in Alaska, first group A traceable to Siberia. Have you submitted your results to Gary Felix's dna site?
Linda in Everett

Tony Diaz wrote:
Just a general question indirectly related to the current conversation topic...

I'd recently had my DNA tested at familytreedna.com and my patrilineal DNA had markers traceable back to Northwestern China. Do all of us with Indio blood carry the same general DNA characteristics given the native Americans probable point of origin being Siberia/Northern Asia?
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from U.S. Cellular

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