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Por Maureen Bejar |

I am hoping I can once again request from this group some information. You have all been so helpful in the past. This is in honor of St. Paddy's day....the Spanish/Irish connection.

I spend my genealogical time between the Irish (mine) and the Spanish (my husband's) I constantly tease him that sooner or later I will find that we are related. We have some similar traits and sometimes that is good, but other times it causes conflicts. Anyway, I am descended from the O'Neill family in Northern Ireland on my maternal side. My great grandfather's name was Hugh O'Neill and my grandmother used to tell us tales of the great Hugh O'Neill. We always thought it was ...you know....just fairy tales. Well, although somewhat embellished, some of her stories are in rare historical books. Anyway, out of curiousity, I started researching the Spanish Armada. Hugh O'Neill (not my great grandfather, but the famous one) was linked to this. Then I found out that many ships from the Armada were wrecked along the Northern Ireland coast. A couple quite close to my paternal ancestor, Owen Gallagher's home of Rosbeg, Donegal Ireland. Some accounts say that most of the soldiers in the ships drowned or were killed by the Irish or interrogated and hung by the English. Other accounts say that some Irish people hid some of the survivors and they eventually made it back to Spain. (I have another link to send with an interesting description of the Irish by one of the survivors, will send later)

Anyway, I am getting long winded here, but I came across a google book mentioning a familiar last name for this group.... Hurtado Mendoza (see page 107 on the link below) Hope this link works, if not let me know and I will give you a phrase from the book that will allow you to search.

http://books.google.com/images/cleardot.gif

Thought you Mendoza fans might like this.

Now for my question, does anyone know if the Spanish kept records of names their survivors and how they survived to come back to Spain? Where might I get my hands on some information on this subject?

Maureen Bejar nee Gallagher

It wouldn't be too far a stretch to find links between the Irish and the
Spanish, as the Celtics settled in the northern part of Spain. There is an
additional link between the Irish and Spanish in that the Moors inhabited both
areas...which resulted in the "Black Irish"....many thinking that the last name
Moore comes from these roots. I am sending you an interesting link, but I am
sure that once you go down this road of research, you will be in a
fascinating discovery that you and your husband may be more than twice related!
_http://www.hermetic.com/bey/blackthorn.html_
(http://www.hermetic.com/bey/blackthorn.html)

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I suggest going to the PARES website. I think it's included in the Ranchos links. I'm not an expert on the subject. I have read that the Archivo General De Simancas was used extensively in a book I have on the subject. Garrett Mattingly wrote "The Armada" in 1959 and used the archive above. Bernardino de Mendoza was the Spanish ambassador at the French court before and after the Armada was launched. He seems to have been one of the forces behind sending the fleet. On page 369 the author writes:
"Two myths should, perhaps, be dealt with here: the story, spread by the English almost from the Armada year, that the Spaniards who came ashore were spontaneously murdered by the Irish for their clothes and arms and jewelry, and the legend, persistent in the west, that black eyes and hair, aquiline profiles and swarthy cheeks show the blood of the Spaniards who came ashore from the Armada ships and stayed. Not infrequently the wild Irish did relieve their unbidden guests of their valuables. Perhaps, now and then, a throat was cut as well. But there is only one recorded instance of the killing of Spanish castaways by Irish not directly in English pay, and it aroused general reprobation. Usually the Irish sheltered the Spaniards, supplied their necessities, and, whenever they could, helped them out of the realm. Several hundred Spaniards did so escape, mostly to Scotland. They thought they had left few if any of their countrymen behind. Perhaps, here and there, some
castaway found a roof and a wife in a friendly village, but not enough, surely, to have any effect on the look of the people as a whole. If one sees, time and again, the same physical types in Connaught and in Galicia, it must be for some other reason."

Your other question is about possible genetic connections between the people of Eire and Spain. I don't recall exactly where I read it (during undergraduate years?) but there is an ancient sea current connecting northern Spain with the British Isles area. A very strong ocean current can carry a raft from the Cantabrian Sea (el mar Cantabrico)to the west of Ireland. This current has made it possible for people from Galicia to sail to Ireland and back. For example, the last viceroy of Mexico was named Juan O'Donoju. His great grandfather took the family to live in Ireland. Another ancestor of his brought the family back to Spain. It was not uncommon for folks to travel from Galicia north to Ireland. I think you can find a map of ocean currents in the Cantabrian Sea on Wikipedia. It's no longer called that. I think it's now called the Bay of Biscay because of its proximity to Viscaya.

To make a long story short- good luck in your hunt for names.

David in Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: Maureen Bejar
>Sent: Feb 24, 2008 12:40 PM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Spanish Armada Hurtado Mendoza

>Now for my question, does anyone know if the Spanish kept records of names their survivors and how they survived to come back to Spain? Where might I get my hands on some information on this subject?
>
>
>Maureen Bejar nee Gallagher

I went in to the English translated page of PARES and did a search on Armada date 1588 and it produced no results. Am I doing something incorrectly?

Also here is the paper from Hiram Morgan on the Spanish Armada and the Irish. At the end is the translated excerpt from one of the survivors.

http://www.stm.unipi.it/Clioh/tabs/libri/1/14-Morgan(10).pdf

Also, here is the website with Sir Francis Drake's account:

http://www.britishbattles.com/spanish-war/spanish-armada.htm

Both quite interesting.

Maureen Bejar

I'm Spanish and I was always told that Spaniards are descended from the Visigoths not the Celts. The Visigoths were a Germanic Tribe that Came from Germany by the Rhine River. Celts and Goths are related because they came along with all the other Germans before crossing through the Caucaus Mountains. This is the time around the Bible genealogy of NOah and such. Would be key evidence. I think Cacausians is a term from the Cacaus mts. All Spaniards are descend from Alfonso I, Rey de ASturias, AT LEAST by then. Here's an interesting theory, in the time of ALfonso I the nobility was 90% of the total population. I think that's why Spain gets too much criticism of being the easiest country to join the nobility. All you had to do is serve in war. It was mostly on militarism. The poorest man could have fought his way up to Duke. A perfect example would be the Dukes of Alba. They werent the richest people. but eventually became one of the most important Spanish families. I made a hypothesis
that since only 10% were "peasants in Spain." The harsh conditions would have wipe them out, but still leave some. I do believe that all people in the new world and Spain are related. If you think about there are only a handful of Spanish surnames. It probably around less than a thousand. Especially los Patronímicos. The -ez suffix. Rodríguez, Méndez, González, so on...(-ez is German.) The ez people are all related. They were from the Visigoths nobles from Germany. -I think I should keep it short. HOpe this helps and fun trivia. -Daniel Méndez del Camino
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Fascinating Daniel.....

So, do you think the following website has it all wrong?
_http://www.thetreemaker.com/last-name-meaning/history-of-spain.html_
(http://www.thetreemaker.com/last-name-meaning/history-of-spain.html)

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campo…
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

I dont think its wrong. Eventually after the English and Spanish were enemies. They would travel. So I do believe that Irish came to Spain in the middle ages,
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Hola Daniel ,are you related to any of the Romo de Vivar or Tiscareno Lines ?
Ronnie Reynoso tu Primo> From: mormonboy74@hotmail.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:54:52 -0800> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Spanish Armada Hurtado Mendoza> > > I'm Spanish and I was always told that Spaniards are descended from the Visigoths not the Celts. The Visigoths were a Germanic Tribe that Came from Germany by the Rhine River. Celts and Goths are related because they came along with all the other Germans before crossing through the Caucaus Mountains. This is the time around the Bible genealogy of NOah and such. Would be key evidence. I think Cacausians is a term from the Cacaus mts. All Spaniards are descend from Alfonso I, Rey de ASturias, AT LEAST by then. Here's an interesting theory, in the time of ALfonso I the nobility was 90% of the total population. I think that's why Spain gets too much criticism of being the easiest country to join the nobility. All you had to do is serve in war. It was mostly on militarism. The poorest man could have fought his way up to Duke. A perfect example would be the Dukes of Alba. They werent the richest people. but eventually became one of the most important Spanish families. I made a hypothesis> that since only 10% were "peasants in Spain." The harsh conditions would have wipe them out, but still leave some. I do believe that all people in the new world and Spain are related. If you think about there are only a handful of Spanish surnames. It probably around less than a thousand. Especially los Patronímicos. The -ez suffix. Rodríguez, Méndez, González, so on...(-ez is German.) The ez people are all related. They were from the Visigoths nobles from Germany. -I think I should keep it short. HOpe this helps and fun trivia. -Daniel Méndez del Camino> _________________________________________________________________> Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix".> http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List> > To post, send email to:> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org> > To change your subscription, log on to:> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Yes, I do descend from Lope about 5-7times! No surprise! I do not descend from the Romos, but am obviously related through marriage! P.S. Im learning German! I started on Sat. so far it's fun. Hopefully I become fluent in Deutsch. I have my genealogy back to the Visigoths if you want to take a look at it. All those Germanic tribes' history are pretty interesting. There was an article on Ancestry.com that stated all Europeans are descended wither from CHarlamagne or Mohammad. Or even both! If you don't want to wait on me, you can easily find João I, genealogy and look at all the cool ancestors we now share. -Tu primo, Daniel (Mendelssuehn von der Kamin)<<<<

Daniel,

Have you actually linked with Charlamagne or Muhammad (The Prophet) ?

Pat Silva Corbera

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Daniel Mendez

> There was an article on Ancestry.com that stated all Europeans are descended wither >rom CHarlamagne or Mohammad. Or even both! If you don't want to wait on me, you can >eaily find Jo

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