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Por Jaime Alvarado |

Three weeks ago I requested photocopies from LDS, but the microfilms containing two of the records I requested were badly damaged, and they did not send copies. Instead, they suggested to visit my closest Family Research Center, and extract the info directly from the microfilm. Unfortunately, the center closest to me does not have these films, so I need your help. These are the two records:

1)Marriage: Antonio de Aranda with Antonia Martin de Sotomaior (Sotomayor) 27 jul 1704, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jalisco. M602325 0641015

2)Christening: Lorenza Moran Montoya. Parents, Juan Moran and Juana Montoia (Montoya). 20 agosto 1694. El Sagrario, Aguascalientes. C604763 0299423

This records could prove extremely useful, because I have reached a wall with both families and I hope to find additional information in these records to continue my research. For record 1, I hope the names of the parents of bride and groom to be listed, but if they are not, at least the names of the 'Padrinos'.

For record 2, I am after the names of the grandparents (unlikely to be listed, but they might) or at least the names of the padrinos. These sometimes are extremely useful.

Hope someone can help getting this info. Perhaps someone has additional information on these two families.

Thanks

Jaime

On the marriage record have you checked to see if there is a marriage information record for that year?  That may give you even more information. Also is there a civil birth registration record instead of a baptism record, that sometimes gives you even more information with ages and occupations of parents and names of grandparents also.
 
Linda in Everett

--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Jaime Alvarado wrote:

From: Jaime Alvarado
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help: de Aranda-Martin Sotomayor (marriage) & Lorenza Moran Montoya (christening)
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 1:10 PM

Three weeks ago I requested photocopies from LDS, but the microfilms containing
two of the records I requested were badly damaged, and they did not send copies.
Instead, they suggested to visit my closest Family Research Center, and extract
the info directly from the microfilm. Unfortunately, the center closest to me
does not have these films, so I need your help. These are the two records:

1)Marriage: Antonio de Aranda with Antonia Martin de Sotomaior (Sotomayor) 27
jul 1704, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jalisco. M602325 0641015

2)Christening: Lorenza Moran Montoya. Parents, Juan Moran and Juana Montoia
(Montoya). 20 agosto 1694. El Sagrario, Aguascalientes. C604763 0299423

This records could prove extremely useful, because I have reached a wall with
both families and I hope to find additional information in these records to
continue my research. For record 1, I hope the names of the parents of bride and
groom to be listed, but if they are not, at least the names of the
'Padrinos'.

For record 2, I am after the names of the grandparents (unlikely to be listed,
but they might) or at least the names of the padrinos. These sometimes are
extremely useful.

Hope someone can help getting this info. Perhaps someone has additional
information on these two families.

Thanks

Jaime

Erlinda,
Thanks for your suggestions. Regarding the first suggestion, I must confess that I am not familiar with what kind of information would be
available in the 'marriage information record' or how to go about requesting this info. Regarding the second suggestion, no civil birth registration
would be availabe for that time. My understanding, is that civil registration in Mexico began with the "Leyes de Reforma" when Church and
State formally separated (1859-1860) during Benito Juarez's administration.

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 3:24:33 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help: de Aranda-Martin Sotomayor (marriage) & Lorenza Moran Montoya (christening)

On the marriage record have you checked to see if there is a marriage information record for that year? That may give you even more information. Also is there a civil birth registration record instead of a baptism record, that sometimes gives you even more information with ages and occupations of parents and names of grandparents also.

Linda in Everett

--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Jaime Alvarado wrote:

From: Jaime Alvarado
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help: de Aranda-Martin Sotomayor (marriage) & Lorenza Moran Montoya (christening)
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 1:10 PM

Three weeks ago I requested photocopies from LDS, but the microfilms containing
two of the records I requested were badly damaged, and they did not send copies.
Instead, they suggested to visit my closest Family Research Center, and extract
the info directly from the microfilm. Unfortunately, the center closest to me
does not have these films, so I need your help. These are the two records:

1)Marriage: Antonio de Aranda with Antonia Martin de Sotomaior (Sotomayor) 27
jul 1704, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jalisco. M602325 0641015

2)Christening: Lorenza Moran Montoya. Parents, Juan Moran and Juana Montoia
(Montoya). 20 agosto 1694. El Sagrario, Aguascalientes. C604763 0299423

This records could prove extremely useful, because I have reached a wall with
both families and I hope to find additional information in these records to
continue my research. For record 1, I hope the names of the parents of bride and
groom to be listed, but if they are not, at least the names of the
'Padrinos'.

For record 2, I am after the names of the grandparents (unlikely to be listed,
but they might) or at least the names of the padrinos. These sometimes are
extremely useful.

Hope someone can help getting this info. Perhaps someone has additional
information on these two families.

Thanks

Jaime

Jaime,

I have the microfilm with the baptismal record of Lorenza Morán Montoya on
permanent loan (LDS Film No. 0299423) and will look it up later this week.
Lorenza's parents Juan Morán and Juana de Montoya were married 14 April 1690
at "Parroquia de la Asunción" in Aguascalientes (LDS Film No. 0299823). The
parents of Juan Morán are listed as Domingo Morán and Antonia Martínez
Calvillo (aka Antonia López Calvillo). Apparently Juana de Montoya was a
"mestiza" originally from the Real y Minas de Guanajuato, Gto. Mexico. I
don't have any information about her parents, but will double check her
marriage record and let you know what it says.

Bill Figueroa

What a great example of having the true sharing and giving attitude.
Thank you Bill for your continued support of other members of the group.
Your dedication to help members of the group advance their genealogies
is an example we should all strive to have during the holidays and at
all times throughout the year(s).

Now I know this is not a fluent transition but just to share a bit of
Folklore here are some stories from the Jalisco area:
http://h2opodcast.com/nr/misc/FourMexicanFolkTales.pdf

1) Cuento de la Ranita
2) Cuento de Maria Ceniza
3) Cuento del Pajaro del Dulce Canto
4) Cuento del Sol y la Luna

if you want to see a foto of a Tepecano Village back in 1917 look at
this site (scroll down): http://www.amphilsoc.org/library/mole/m/mason.htm

joseph

=====================

Joseph Puentes
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

> Jaime,
>
> I have the microfilm with the baptismal record of Lorenza Morán
> Montoya on permanent loan (LDS Film No. 0299423) and will look it up
> later this week. Lorenza's parents Juan Morán and Juana de Montoya
> were married 14 April 1690 at "Parroquia de la Asunción" in
> Aguascalientes (LDS Film No. 0299823). The parents of Juan Morán are
> listed as Domingo Morán and Antonia Martínez Calvillo (aka Antonia
> López Calvillo). Apparently Juana de Montoya was a "mestiza"
> originally from the Real y Minas de Guanajuato, Gto. Mexico. I don't
> have any information about her parents, but will double check her
> marriage record and let you know what it says.
>
> Bill Figueroa

Bill,
Thanks very much for your help. One more time I am in debt with your generosity.

Sincerely

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:44:48 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help: de Aranda-Martin Sotomayor (marriage) & Lorenza Moran Montoya (christening)

Jaime,

I have the microfilm with the baptismal record of Lorenza Morán Montoya on
permanent loan (LDS Film No. 0299423) and will look it up later this week.
Lorenza's parents Juan Morán and Juana de Montoya were married 14 April 1690
at "Parroquia de la Asunción" in Aguascalientes (LDS Film No. 0299823). The
parents of Juan Morán are listed as Domingo Morán and Antonia Martínez
Calvillo (aka Antonia López Calvillo). Apparently Juana de Montoya was a
"mestiza" originally from the Real y Minas de Guanajuato, Gto. Mexico. I
don't have any information about her parents, but will double check her
marriage record and let you know what it says.

Bill Figueroa

Jaime,

Below is the marriage record of Juan Moran and Juana de Montoya. The
transcription is verbatim, i.e. in ancient Spanish language and with many
grammatical errors made by the priest. I know you're bilingual, so no
translation should be needed.

Al margen: Juan Moran, español, con Juan de montolla, mestisa. casados i no
velados.

"En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorze dias del mes de Abril de mil i
seis sientos i nobenta años case por palabras de presente que hisieron
verdadero matrimonio a Juan moran español vesino i natural desta Villa hijo
legitimo de Diego moran i de antonia martines españoles difuntos vesinos que
fueron desta dha Villa con Juana de montolla mestisa natural del Real y
minas de Guanajuato i rresidente en esta tiempo de cuatro años hija de
padres no conocidos presedido las diligensias que dispone el Santo Consilio
de trento leies las amonestasiones en tres dias festibos inter misarium
solemnia que lo fueron dia de la anunsiacion de Nra. Sra. beintisinco de
marzo domingo veintyseis Pascua de Resuresion la ultima tres de marso i al
espresar sus voluntades testigos Juan de Leon y Juan de herrera y juan de
Sn. Joseph i para que conste lo firme. D. Baltassar Fernando Altamirano de
Castilla."

The baptismal record of Lorenza Moran reads as follows:

"En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en 20 dias del mes de agosto de noventa i
quatro baptise i puse olio i Chrisma Lorenz española hija legitima de Juan
Moran i de Juana Montoia fue su madrina Juana de Medina advertiles la
cognasion espiritual i lo firme. Br. Nicolas de Aguilera."

I have scans of the actual records which I can email directly to you if
you're interested. Notice that Lorenza's father was "español" and her
mother "mestiza". When she was born Lorenza was considered "española"
although in reality she was probably "castisa".

Let me know if you have any questions.

Regards,

Bill

William,
Your generous spirit is such an inspiration! May the blessings you have
bestowed on Jaime and all the others be repaid to you ten fold. God bless
you! Please let me know if I can ever provide you with a little
appreciation from San Francisco.
Rosa

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Bill
Figueroa
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:10 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help: de Aranda-Martin
Sotomayor(marriage) & Lorenza Moran Montoya (christening)

Jaime,

Below is the marriage record of Juan Moran and Juana de Montoya. The
transcription is verbatim, i.e. in ancient Spanish language and with many
grammatical errors made by the priest. I know you're bilingual, so no
translation should be needed.

Al margen: Juan Moran, español, con Juan de montolla, mestisa. casados i no
velados.

"En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorze dias del mes de Abril de mil i
seis sientos i nobenta años case por palabras de presente que hisieron
verdadero matrimonio a Juan moran español vesino i natural desta Villa hijo
legitimo de Diego moran i de antonia martines españoles difuntos vesinos que
fueron desta dha Villa con Juana de montolla mestisa natural del Real y
minas de Guanajuato i rresidente en esta tiempo de cuatro años hija de
padres no conocidos presedido las diligensias que dispone el Santo Consilio
de trento leies las amonestasiones en tres dias festibos inter misarium
solemnia que lo fueron dia de la anunsiacion de Nra. Sra. beintisinco de
marzo domingo veintyseis Pascua de Resuresion la ultima tres de marso i al
espresar sus voluntades testigos Juan de Leon y Juan de herrera y juan de
Sn. Joseph i para que conste lo firme. D. Baltassar Fernando Altamirano de
Castilla."

The baptismal record of Lorenza Moran reads as follows:

"En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en 20 dias del mes de agosto de noventa i
quatro baptise i puse olio i Chrisma Lorenz española hija legitima de Juan
Moran i de Juana Montoia fue su madrina Juana de Medina advertiles la
cognasion espiritual i lo firme. Br. Nicolas de Aguilera."

I have scans of the actual records which I can email directly to you if
you're interested. Notice that Lorenza's father was "español" and her
mother "mestiza". When she was born Lorenza was considered "española"
although in reality she was probably "castisa".

Let me know if you have any questions.

Regards,

Bill

Bill,
Thanks so much. About the scan, I will certainly appreciate it.

Thanks and Happy Hollidays!

Jaime
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 1:10:14 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need help: de Aranda-Martin Sotomayor (marriage) & Lorenza Moran Montoya (christening)

Jaime,

Below is the marriage record of Juan Moran and Juana de Montoya. The
transcription is verbatim, i.e. in ancient Spanish language and with many
grammatical errors made by the priest. I know you're bilingual, so no
translation should be needed.

Al margen: Juan Moran, español, con Juan de montolla, mestisa. casados i no
velados.

"En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en catorze dias del mes de Abril de mil i
seis sientos i nobenta años case por palabras de presente que hisieron
verdadero matrimonio a Juan moran español vesino i natural desta Villa hijo
legitimo de Diego moran i de antonia martines españoles difuntos vesinos que
fueron desta dha Villa con Juana de montolla mestisa natural del Real y
minas de Guanajuato i rresidente en esta tiempo de cuatro años hija de
padres no conocidos presedido las diligensias que dispone el Santo Consilio
de trento leies las amonestasiones en tres dias festibos inter misarium
solemnia que lo fueron dia de la anunsiacion de Nra. Sra. beintisinco de
marzo domingo veintyseis Pascua de Resuresion la ultima tres de marso i al
espresar sus voluntades testigos Juan de Leon y Juan de herrera y juan de
Sn. Joseph i para que conste lo firme. D. Baltassar Fernando Altamirano de
Castilla."

The baptismal record of Lorenza Moran reads as follows:

"En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en 20 dias del mes de agosto de noventa i
quatro baptise i puse olio i Chrisma Lorenz española hija legitima de Juan
Moran i de Juana Montoia fue su madrina Juana de Medina advertiles la
cognasion espiritual i lo firme. Br. Nicolas de Aguilera."

I have scans of the actual records which I can email directly to you if
you're interested. Notice that Lorenza's father was "español" and her
mother "mestiza". When she was born Lorenza was considered "española"
although in reality she was probably "castisa".

Let me know if you have any questions.

Regards,

Bill

Genealogy Research