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Por MariaCortez |

I recently advanced my research considerably by going to the Salt Lake City
Library. I added Juan Delgado m. 4 Mar 1669 to Margarita Lopez de Lizardi
at the Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes to my database.
Unfortunately, the marriage record does not name the parents of either the
bride or the groom. I searched for the Informacion Matrimonial for this
couple, but it is missing. I've gone through the images on
pilot.familysearch twice (I know the records are out of order) and I could
not find it. Does anyone have any info on this couple? I found all the
baptismal records for 12 of their children and noticed that the padrinos
were often from the Ruiz Esparza, Tiscareño, Gabai, and Romo de Vivar
families. I am wondering how they may be connected to these families.
Another question I have is the Lopez de Lizardi surname sounds like it may
be the same as Lopez de Elizalde. Does anyone know if this is the same
surname? Thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide.

Maria Cortez
Sacramento, CA

Thank you Bill and Daniel for your responses.

Your answers raised more questions. Daniel, you say that the source is the
marriage of Juan Delgado and Francisca Tiscareno. What is the date and
place of this marriage? Are you saying that Juan Delgado is listed
as "Viudo de Margarita Lopez de Lizardi" at the time of his marriage to
Francisca Tiscareno? That is the only way to be certain that we are talking
about the same individual. Juan Delgado is a fairly common name.

Bill, you are so right about the timeline being way off. I didn't double
check when I first read the e-mail, but I haven't input anything into my
database until I can get my hands on the actual documents. Thanks for
catching that.

Maria

>
> HI Mar?a, yes the source is the marriage of Juan Delgado and Francisca
> Tiscare?o de Molina (o Navarro Gabay). It lists the parents as Diego Delgado
> y Juana Gabadi and on the bride's as Lu?s Tiscare?o de Molina and Lorenza
> Ruiz de Esparza (I). You might notice it says Gabadi which really means
> Gabay, Iveen the Gabay surname spelled many weird ways: Gabai. Gahbadi, etc.
> I always thought it was Moorish influence, Not sure though. If Juan's mother
> is indeed Petronila's daughter the couple would be first cousins. Very
> common in these time still is. Jos? was said to have been born in Pinos,
> Zac. And Juana should be part of the same Gabays there's only one family
> with this surname in this area. I think Aguas and Nochistl?n.
>
>
>
> Iglesia Cat?lica. Sagrario. Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, M?xico
>
> Bautismos 1616-1662 incluye algunos matrimonios - FHL INTL Film [ 299421 ]
>
>
> -Daniel C.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 23:52:32 -0600
> From: "Bill Figueroa"
>
> Mar?a,
>
> Juan Delgado was a son of Joseph Delgado and Francisca Tiscare?o (aka
> Francisca Gabai). Francisca was a daughter of Luis Tiscare?o de Molina and
> Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza. Lorenza was the daughter of Lope Ruiz de Esparza
> and Francisca Gabai de Moctezuma. Sooooo... Francisca Tiscare?o was a
> great-granddaughter of Petronila de Moctezuma, NOT her daughter. I think
> Daniel was shooting from the hip on this one. Sorry, Daniel. Look at the
> timeline!!
>
>

Hi María, Juan and Margarita were married 4 mar 1669 in Aguascalientes, Ags. Francisca Tiscareño de Molina was Juan's mother not spouse. As far as I know, Juan was only married onece. Again, heres my source:

Iglesia Cat?lica. Sagrario. Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, M?xico
Bautismos 1616-1662 incluye algunos matrimonios - FHL INTL Film [ 299421 ]

Juan Delgado

Margarita Lopes de Lisardi
4 marzo 1669 Villa de Aguascalientes

José Delgado

Francisca Navarro de Gabay or (Tiscareño de Molina)

30 agosto 1644 Villa de Aguascalientes

Hijo de Diego Delgado y Juana de Gabadi (Gabay)

Hija de Luís Tiscareño de Molina y Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza (I)

-Daniel

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Maria,

I've uploaded Maria DELGADO's (my 6x great-grandmother) pedigree tree here: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2917. I think it might be of help or interest interest.

Also, I have 13 children for Juan DELGADO and Margarita LOPES DE LISARDI. I'd be glad to send you their info. Drop me a note at dexaime@excite.com.

Just out of curiosity I did a search on Gabay and this is what I got: 'The meaning of the name Gabai is 'Public official; synagogue attendant'.

Saludos,
Luis

Daniel,

Thank you very much for the info. Can you tell me your source for Juan
Delgado's parents?

It makes sense that Juana de Gabay could be Petronila's daughter since the
name, place and time period fit. I'll have to look for evidence to be
certain.

Maria

> From: Daniel M?ndez del Camino
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Lopez de Lizardi
>
>
> Hi Maria, yes the two families are the same, I have always wondered about
> the two spellings, Ive seen (L?pez or Lopes) de Elizalde, Elisalde, Lizardo,
> Lizaldi, Lisardo, Elisardo, Elisalide, etc... the list goes on. I am also
> related to them. I am not sure who the parents of Margarita are but have a
> hunch. As for Juan Delgado de Gabay his parents are Jos? Delgado
>
> and Francisca Navarro de Gabay. Jose is son of Diego Delgado and Juana de
> Gabay. I think she is the daughter of Petronila Moctezuma, but havent found
> any evidence...
>

HI María, yes the source is the marriage of Juan Delgado and Francisca Tiscareño de Molina (o Navarro Gabay). It lists the parents as Diego Delgado y Juana Gabadi and on the bride's as Luís Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza (I). You might notice it says Gabadi which really means Gabay, Iveen the Gabay surname spelled many weird ways: Gabai. Gahbadi, etc. I always thought it was Moorish influence, Not sure though. If Juan's mother is indeed Petronila's daughter the couple would be first cousins. Very common in these time still is. José was said to have been born in Pinos, Zac. And Juana should be part of the same Gabays there's only one family with this surname in this area. I think Aguas and Nochistlán.

Iglesia Católica. Sagrario. Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México

Bautismos 1616-1662 incluye algunos matrimonios - FHL INTL Film [ 299421 ]

-Daniel C.

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María,

Juan Delgado was a son of Joseph Delgado and Francisca Tiscareño (aka Francisca Gabai). Francisca was a daughter of Luis Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza. Lorenza was the daughter of Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Francisca Gabai de Moctezuma. Sooooo... Francisca Tiscareño was a great-granddaughter of Petronila de Moctezuma, NOT her daughter. I think Daniel was shooting from the hip on this one. Sorry, Daniel. Look at the timeline!!

Also, Gabai (also spelled Gabaii, Gabay,Gabadi) is not of Moorish origin but of Basque origin instead.

Bill Figueroa

Opps, I didnt see that one! I think I meant grandaughter of Lope instead not Petronila! It was late last night! -Daniel

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I am looking fro the parents of Juana gabay o nuno wife of Pascual Aramburu (born in1661) from Nochistlan , Zacatecas

Pascual by the way was born in 1661 contrary to what other genealogist write as 1663 or 1666

________________________________

From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Daniel M?ndez del Camino
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 8:50 PM
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Lopez de Lizardi

HI María, yes the source is the marriage of Juan Delgado and Francisca Tiscareño de Molina (o Navarro Gabay). It lists the parents as Diego Delgado y Juana Gabadi and on the bride's as Luís Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza (I). You might notice it says Gabadi which really means Gabay, Iveen the Gabay surname spelled many weird ways: Gabai. Gahbadi, etc. I always thought it was Moorish influence, Not sure though. If Juan's mother is indeed Petronila's daughter the couple would be first cousins. Very common in these time still is. José was said to have been born in Pinos, Zac. And Juana should be part of the same Gabays there's only one family with this surname in this area. I think Aguas and Nochistlán.

Iglesia Católica. Sagrario. Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México

Bautismos 1616-1662 incluye algunos matrimonios - FHL INTL Film [ 299421 ]

-Daniel C.

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Daniel,

In a book I picked up in Navarra, Spain, "Apellidos Vascos" by Luis Michelena, I find names like Gabi, Arrumburu, Navarro, Lizargain, Lexarralde, etc., so I think your Gabay and Lizaralde are not Moorish, but Basque

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
To: Patty Hoyos
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Lopez de Lizardi

HI María, yes the source is the marriage of Juan Delgado and Francisca Tiscareño de Molina (o Navarro Gabay). It lists the parents as Diego Delgado y Juana Gabadi and on the bride's as Luís Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza (I). You might notice it says Gabadi which really means Gabay, Iveen the Gabay surname spelled many weird ways: Gabai. Gahbadi, etc. I always thought it was Moorish influence, Not sure though. If Juan's mother is indeed Petronila's daughter the couple would be first cousins. Very common in these time still is. José was said to have been born in Pinos, Zac. And Juana should be part of the same Gabays there's only one family with this surname in this area. I think Aguas and Nochistlán.

Iglesia Católica. Sagrario. Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, México

Bautismos 1616-1662 incluye algunos matrimonios - FHL INTL Film [ 299421 ]

-Daniel C.

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See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life
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Hi Maria, yes the two families are the same, I have always wondered about the two spellings, Ive seen (López or Lopes) de Elizalde, Elisalde, Lizardo, Lizaldi, Lisardo, Elisardo, Elisalide, etc... the list goes on. I am also related to them. I am not sure who the parents of Margarita are but have a hunch. As for Juan Delgado de Gabay his parents are José Delgado

and Francisca Navarro de Gabay. Jose is son of Diego Delgado and Juana de Gabay. I think she is the daughter of Petronila Moctezuma, but havent found any evidence. Maybe someone in the hroup knows about Juana? Back to Juan's mother, Francisca Navarro de Gabay daughter of Luís Tiscareño de Molina and Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza (I), who is daughter of Lope Ruiz de Esparza. The rest of the genealogy is history! Hope this helps in a nutshell! I guess were related at least 7 times sincem y father comes from Lope about 3 and my mother comes 4 times from Lope. About Margarita I think her last name López de Elizalde passed maternally (her mother might have been a Elizalde not the father. Ive only seen a few cases in the Elizalde family where this happens not too common with them but it did. -Daniel Camino

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