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Por Jaime Alvarado |

Juan de Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza on Dec. 13, 1666 in Aguascalientes (no parents listed). I've checked all the images of "Informacion Matrimonial" for 1666 in Pilot, but there are several months missing for that year. I was able to identify two potential individuals in Aguascalientes: Luisa Esparza Lozano, b. 6 Feb 1637, daughter of Pedro Ruiz Esparza and Juana Lozano, and Luisa Esparza Lisalde, born 28 Feb 1648 daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez Lisalde. I also know that Pedro Macias Valades married a Luisa de Esparza on July 2 1684 (no parents listed), after the death of his first wife, Francisca de Quiroga. Thus I am trying to figure out which of the two Luisas correspond to the respective marriages. Any help will be appreciated.

Jaime

Bill,
I found the 'informacion matrimonial' of Pedro Macias Valades (son of Tomas MV and Maria de Alvarado Lopez de Elizalde) and Juana de Esparza (Sept 1678). The first page is difficult to read, but while Pedro's info is given, there none for the parents of Juana. In addition, Pedro signs his declaration, but hers is signed in her behalf and it is 'obscure' about details. The witnesses declare that Pedro and Juana 'fueron criados juntos'. I wonder if they lived in the same household, and whether she was an illegitimate child of a relative. In a separate e-mail, I will send you the jpg files.
Almost forgot, while searching in that same year, I found the informacion matrimonial of Pedro Macias Valades (son of Pedro Macias Valades and Josepha Gutierrez) when she married to Francisca Ruis de Quiroga (daughter of Bartholome the Espitia and Juana Gonzalez). Do you want a copy?

Jaime

Jaime,

Yes, I would like scans of the 'Información Matrimonial' of Pedro Macías Valadez and Juana de Esparza (Sept 1678) and Pedro Macías Valadez and Francisca Ruiz de Quiroga. I want to read these documents and add some notes to my database. I find searching for these documents very time consuming because of the lack of indexing. Incidentally, I found the burial of Pedro Macías Valadez (the one who married Luisa Gómez aka Luisa de Esparza in 1684). He was buried 14 Jul 1737 in Aguascalientes. His wife is listed as Luissa de Esparsa. You may want to add that bit of information to your family tree.

Have you ever tried to find anyone in the Confirmation records? The parents and godparents of kids being confirmed are always listed. Not other useful information. I've found the confirmation of several of my ancestors and they were listed correctly. Do you think it would be worthwhile searching for Luisa Gómez aka Luisa de Esparza between 1650-1680? Based on the information we've found so far, I keep thinking that Luisa may have been the daughter of Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza. Women usually went by the mother's surname. Just a thought.

Bill

Bill,
Thanks for the burial info of Pedro MV. Regading confirmation records, I have tried to check it before, and have found certain children whose christenings I could not find. Just yesterday I stumbled into some that were out of place, among baptism records. I scanned those pages that had names I could recognize in my tree, saved the jpg files, and can I will check them out later. One record that came up, was a Mathias Macias Valades, son of Joseph Macias Valades and Catalina de la Vega. Prior to this, I only had Juan who married Juana Dominguez for that couple. I would not be surprised that you already have it with a bunch of other siblings.

Jaime

PS I will send you jpg files in a few minutes. Did you received the ones I sent you earlier today?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:14:20 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde

Jaime,

Yes, I would like scans of the 'Información Matrimonial' of Pedro Macías Valadez and Juana de Esparza (Sept 1678) and Pedro Macías Valadez and Francisca Ruiz de Quiroga. I want to read these documents and add some notes to my database. I find searching for these documents very time consuming because of the lack of indexing. Incidentally, I found the burial of Pedro Macías Valadez (the one who married Luisa Gómez aka Luisa de Esparza in 1684). He was buried 14 Jul 1737 in Aguascalientes. His wife is listed as Luissa de Esparsa. You may want to add that bit of information to your family tree.

Have you ever tried to find anyone in the Confirmation records? The parents and godparents of kids being confirmed are always listed. Not other useful information. I've found the confirmation of several of my ancestors and they were listed correctly. Do you think it would be worthwhile searching for Luisa Gómez aka Luisa de Esparza between 1650-1680? Based on the information we've found so far, I keep thinking that Luisa may have been the daughter of Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza. Women usually went by the mother's surname. Just a thought.

Bill

Jaime,

I did receive all the jpg files you sent me, thank you very much. I do NOT
have Mathias Macias Valadez, son of Joseph Macías Valadez and Catalina de la
Vega, in my records, but I do have 1) Thomas who married María de Anda
Miramontes 2 Feb 1693, 2) Josepha who married Antonio de Cuellar 29 Nov 1681
and 3) Ursula who married Antonio de Acosta 22 Aug 1677. Do you have any
other data for Mathias or any other children? Did he survive adolescence,
marry and had children?

Bill

Confirmaciones are excellent records; where else are you going to piece together a family quickly and know if they are still living in the vicinity. They are not only a good indicator of a child arriving to the age of confirmation but when the family moved. If the child does not get confirmed and others do, then what happened; did the child die? What if other children did not get confirmed did the family move away, or did they all die? They could have all died, but more than likely they moved away. If there is a gap in the confirmation of the children and a child is missed then chances are that you will find the child in the defunciones.

Billl,

One thing is for sure, we will never get bored trying to 'reconstruct' our families histories. I can see your point about the age Luisa had she married Pedro Macias Valades, yet in my family tree, I have a several great-great-etc-grandmothers that married 'late', either in their first or second marriage, and were still able to produce manyt children (thank God, otherwise I would not be here!). Going back to Luisa de Esparza Lisalde. I am including the transcription of her christening:

(Al Margen) Luissa Espa ñ ola.

En veinte y ocho de Febrero de mill y seiscientos y quarenta y ocho a ñ os en esta parroqia baptise y chatechisse a una ni ñ a a la qual pusse por n(ombr)e Luisa Hija de Jasinto de Esparza y de Juana de Lisalde sacola de pila Franco Gomez dixele la obligacion del parentesco. (Rubrica) Luys de Zepeda

You are right. Francisco Gomez, who held her during the ceremony, was the husband of her older sister Margarita, having married the year before. However, what I find interesting is that both Francisco and Margarta were the Godparents in the Pedro Masias Valades and Luisa de Esparza wedding. Here is the transcription:

(Al Margen) (Pedro Ma)sias con (Luisa) de Esparsa (casa)dos y velados
En la Villa de Aguascalientes en dos dias del mes de Junio año de mill seiscientos y ochenta y quatro case y vele in facie clezie a Pedro Macias Valades viudo de Franca. de Quiroga ia difunta, con Luisa de Esparsa vesina de esta dicha Villa, aviendo precedido informacion bastante de su livertad y las amonestaciones que dispone el Sto. Concilio leidas en tres dias festibos inter missarum solemnia, la primera dia de Junio, la segunda domingo beinte i uno de Junio la tersera dia de los Apostoles S. Pedro y S. Pablo, de las quales no resulto impedimento fueron testigos al expresar sus voluntades Diego Gonzales de la Serda, Francisco Muños de Naba y los Padrinos que lo fueron Franco. Gomes y Margarita Gomes y lo firme.
(Rubrica) Don Baltassar Fernando Altami(ra)no de Costilla

To the suggestion that this Luisa could be the daughter of Francisco and Margarita Gomez, I have a question. Is it at all possible for the parents to be the Godparents?

Finally, I tried to find the informacion matrimonial for Baltassar Caldera and Luisa Ruiz de Esparza, without success.

I'll keep digging

Jaime Alvarado

Jaime,

The "padrinos" at the wedding of Pedro Macías Valadez and Luisa Gómez (or Ruiz de Esparza) were NOT Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza. Francisco Gómez was buried in Aguascalientes 2 Oct 1655. His wife was alive in 1683 and probably in 1684. Francisco burial record reads as follows:

Al margen: "Franco. Gomes
Marido de Marga
rita de Sparsa
testo y no dexo
obras pias"

"En dos de octubre año de mil y seiscientos y sinqta. y cinco
enterre en la Parrochial de esta Villa a Franco. Gomes
spañol natural de Sevilla marido q' fue
de Margarita de Sparsa Recibio los SStos Sa
cramtos. y testo No dexo obras pias y lo firme
D. Bme. de Soto y Carvajal"

I feel sorry for Doña Margarita. She was pregnant when her husband died. Their last child Baltazar Gómez was baptized 12 Feb 1656 in Aguascalientes.

The "padrinos" at the wedding of Pedro Macías Valadez and Luisa Gómez (or Ruiz de Esparza) were Francisco Gómez and Margarita Gómez, children of Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza and possibly siblings or cousins of the bride. Incidentally, can you send me as attachments the pages of Informaciones Matrimoniales where Luisa appears as Luisa Gómez? The age of the groom and bride are usually given in their declarations.

I could not find the Informacion Matrimonial for Baltazar Caldera and Luisa Ruiz de Esparza either.

Bill Figueroa

Bill,
Could there be a Pedro Macias Valadez married to a Luisa de Esparza, different from a Pedro Macias Valadez married to Luisa Gomez (Ruiz de Esparza)? With so many people christened with same name (got another two Luisas Esparza that died earlier), and the same families often intermarrying, I wonder about that possibility. That is a headache with my maternal line from Nuevo Leon, where Garcia and de la Garza families intermarried for generations in Villa de Garcia. The LDS site is swamped with unverified submissions 'based on matches taken at face value without reading the original documents. The number of Gertrudis de la Garza is oustanding! I got about six of as direct ancestors (all related), with my great grandfather having two 'abuelas' Gertrudis Garza. These Gertrudis are oftern interchanged, creating huge discrepancies among family trees.
Regarding Francisco Gomez, I will send you the JPG of the wedding of Pedro and Luisa where it reads without doubt "fueron los padrinos Franco Gomez and Margarita Gomez." Given the information you have about Franco, they are likely to be his children.
I will also send you the 'informacion matrimonial' of the wedding of Margarita Macias where Luisa Gomez appears as the mother of the bride.

Thanks

Jaime Alvarado

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Figueroa"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:20:42 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde

Jaime,

The "padrinos" at the wedding of Pedro Macías Valadez and Luisa Gómez (or Ruiz de Esparza) were NOT Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza. Francisco Gómez was buried in Aguascalientes 2 Oct 1655. His wife was alive in 1683 and probably in 1684. Francisco burial record reads as follows:

Al margen: "Franco. Gomes
Marido de Marga
rita de Sparsa
testo y no dexo
obras pias"

"En dos de octubre año de mil y seiscientos y sinqta. y cinco
enterre en la Parrochial de esta Villa a Franco. Gomes
spañol natural de Sevilla marido q' fue
de Margarita de Sparsa Recibio los SStos Sa
cramtos. y testo No dexo obras pias y lo firme
D. Bme. de Soto y Carvajal"

I feel sorry for Doña Margarita. She was pregnant when her husband died. Their last child Baltazar Gómez was baptized 12 Feb 1656 in Aguascalientes.

The "padrinos" at the wedding of Pedro Macías Valadez and Luisa Gómez (or Ruiz de Esparza) were Francisco Gómez and Margarita Gómez, children of Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza and possibly siblings or cousins of the bride. Incidentally, can you send me as attachments the pages of Informaciones Matrimoniales where Luisa appears as Luisa Gómez? The age of the groom and bride are usually given in their declarations.

I could not find the Informacion Matrimonial for Baltazar Caldera and Luisa Ruiz de Esparza either.

Bill Figueroa

Jaime,

There was a Pedro Macías Valadez who married a Juana de Esparza 16 Sep 1678 in Aguascalientes. I don't know anything about this Juana de Esparza. Pedro was the son of Thomas Macías Valadez and María de Alvarado y López de Elizalde. You may want to check his Información Matrimonial.

I don't have another Luisa Gómez in my database, but I do have a Luisa Ruiz de Esparza who married Gerónimo Montañez on 22 Feb 1689, a Juana Luisa Ruiz de Esparza who married Joseph de Chávez on 8 Dec 1696 and a Luisa Ruiz de Esparza who married Juan Ortiz on 13 Dec 1666 (you already checked this one) all of them in Aguascalientes. I have a few more but they're from different generations. I did a quick search for the Información Matrimonial of Pedro Macías Valadez and Luisa Gómez (or Ruiz de Esparza) but could not find it. As you know, Pedro Macías Valadez had been married to Francisca de Espitia (aka Francisca de Quiroga) with whom he had two children. He then had five with Luisa Gómez (or Ruiz de Esparza). Pedro died ca. 1700.

To be continued...

Bill Figueroa

Hi Bill, Its Daniel, i have one question, Im very confused about all the Luisa you mention? Correct me, Franco. Gómez and Margarita had Bálthazar, Franco. II, Luisa II and Margarita II? Did this Luisa married Pedro Macías Valadés?

I found this who is this Luisa's parentts?

LUISA DE ESPARZA
Pedigree

Female

Family

Event(s):

Birth:

Christening:

Death:

Burial:

Marriages:

Spouse:
PEDRO MACIAS VALADEZ
Family

Marriage:

02 JUL 1684
Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico
-Daniel Méndez del Camino

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Daniel,

The Luisa Esparza (or Gómez) that has not been identified is the one who married Pedro Macías Valadez in 1684. In her marriage record she is Luisa Esparza but her daughter Margarita Macías referred to her as Luisa Gómez in her marriage declaration.

Francisco Gómez, a native of Seville who settled in Nueva Galicia in the early or mid-1600s, married Margarita Ruiz de Esparza in 1647. I have identified four of their children:

1. Francisco, their "primogénito" was born in 1648. Probably died infant.
2. Margarita, birth date unknown, could be their second child. She married Juan Ruiz de Escamilla.
3. Francisco II, born in 1652, first married María González de Huerta and when she died he married María de Altuna y Contreras.
4. Baltazar, their last child, was born in 1656. His father died four months before he was born. I don't know if he survived but have found no additional information about him.

Francisco Gómez died in 1655. Margarita Ruiz de Esparza did not remarry but was still alive in 1683.

The Luisa Gómez (or Esparza) that married Pedro Macías Valadez in 1684 could be a legitimate daughter of this couple. I have not found her baptismal certificate or any other document that would identify her as such, but still have to check for confirmation records, burial records, marriage information, etc.

The "padrinos" at their wedding were Francisco Gómez and Margarita Gómez, numbers 1 and 2 above. They could be her siblings or cousins. That, in a nutshell, is what we are trying to determine.

Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Méndez del Camino"
To: "Patty Hoyos"
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde

Hi Bill, Its Daniel, i have one question, Im very confused about all the Luisa you mention? Correct me, Franco. Gómez and Margarita had Bálthazar, Franco. II, Luisa II and Margarita II? Did this Luisa married Pedro Macías Valadés?
Daniel

Hola Jaime, Bill y los otros Esparzas!

My sister in law and I are searching for the Esparza family (Martin Ruiz De
Esparza) from Aguas/Zacatecas area that migrated to the North. Thus far we
know that Domingo in Saltillo is the only one moving to the north area --
Texas, Monterrey, New Mexico, CA -- When we were searching we could not
find many Esparzas north of Jalisco, Zacazatecas. ...the Generations of Lope
& Ana Gabay. Also, Gregorio has moved north. In 1750, when the real
migration began, we find other Esparzas in Lampazos -- one Manuel was there,
but what happened to the others? Do your Esparza come North?

Thanks, Phyls Esparza

Hola Phyls,

Most early settlers of Aguascalientes stayed close to home in the 1600s, but by the 1700s their descendants moved in all directions. One thing to consider is that not only the ones that carry the surname are Esparzas. Some are much more difficult to detect, like myself for example. My great-grandmother Josefa Frias Esparza was born in Rincon de Romos in 1848. Her mother Refugio Ruiz de Esparza died when Josefa was born, so my 2-great grandfather (tatarabuelo) Antonio Frías moved the family to Tepic, Nayarit, which at that time was 'Territorio Militar' and previously had been 'Séptimo Cantón de Jalisco' and part of Nueva Galicia. Nayarit became a state in 1914 or thereabouts. Antonio Frías had a thriving transportation business in Tepic, moving goods from ships arriving at the port of San Blas, to the city of Guadalajara. He also had mining interests in other areas. In 1870 Josepha Frías Esparza married my great-grandfather Wilhelm L. Strecker, a German-American engineer from Pennsylvania who ended up in Mexico after a devastating shipwreck off the coast of Mazatlan. About 10 years later my great-grandfather secured a contract with the government of Guatemala to participate in the construction of the railroads in that country, and moved his family to Guatemala. My grandfather Guillermo Strecker Frías was born there in 1879. His mother, Josefa Frias Esparza, died in Guatemala City in 1921.

My Ruiz de Esparza connection is as follows:

• 8th great-grandparents: Lope Ruiz de Esparza & Anna Francisca Gabai de Moctezuma

• 7th great-grandparents: Bernardo Ruiz-de-Esparza & Catalina Lozano de Frías

• 6th great-grandparents: Christobal Ruiz de Esparza & Antonia de Alvarado y Lopez de Elizalde

• 5th great-grandparents: Francisco Ruiz-de-Esparza & Josepha de Iñiguez y Ulloa

• 4th great-grandparents: Vicente Ruiz-de-Esparza & Rafaela Trillo y Delgado

• 3rd great-grandparents: Francisco Ruiz-de-Esparza & María Gertrudis Escobedo y Escalera

• 2nd great-grandparents: José Antonio Frías & Refugio Ruiz-de-Esparza

• My great-grandparents : Wilhelm L. Strecker & Josepha Frías Ruiz-de-Esparza

There must be thousands of cases like mine throughout the world. I was born and raise in Guatemala but now live in the USA and have children and grandchildren born in this country. Because I worked in the oil industry all my life, I had the opportunity to live in Mexico and to visit the country quite often, working on seismic exploration and drilling projects for Pemex. Many other times I went there for pleasure, to visit friends and relatives, and more recently for genealogical research. I love Mexico.

Going back to Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Francisca Gabai, I know that all their children were born and lived in Aguascalientes, Zacatecas and Jalisco, but some of their descendants moved to other areas of Mexico, including Texas, Alta California, Nuevo Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and other territories explored and settled by Spain north of the Rio Grande. To find out who they are, you have to start following the threat of ancestors by checking church and civil records. Not an easy task.

Take care, Phyls.

Bill Figueroa

What a weekend! I gathered lots of information for differents sources (thanks to everyone), and was able to conclude the following regarding the two Luisas.
Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez de Lizalde were parents of Luisa de Esparza Lizalde, b. 28 Feb 1648, Aguascalientes. Luisa's godfather was Francisco Gomez. Luisa married Pedro Macias Valades on July 2, 1684. The Godfather at the wedding was again Francisco Gomez togehter with Margarita Gomez. Luisa and Pedro had the following children: Isabel b. 1685, Margarita b 13 Oct 1686, Josepha b. 1688, Pedro b.1689 y Maria b. 1691. Margarita Macias married Manuel Delgado Lopez Lizalde, son of Luis Delgado and Theresa Lopez Lisalde, on April 17, 1706 (Informacion Matrimonial April 7th). What is interesting, is that in this document, the parents of the bride are listed as: Pedro Macias Valades and Luisa Gomez! The age of the bride (19 years old) corresponds with Margarita's birthdate, and as far as I can tell, this is the same Margarita born to Pedro MV and Luisa de Esparza.
The question: What is the relationship of Francisco Gomez to the Ruiz Esparza & Lopez Lizaldi families. Any clues?

This confirms (Thanks Miggi) that Luisa de Esparza Lozano b. 6 Feb 1637, daughter of Pedro (Ruiz) de Esparza and Juana Lozano, is indeed the wife of Juan Ortiz, whom she married on 13 Dec 1666, in Aguascalientes. This information will be particularly useful for the descendants of the Reyes-Medina family lines.

Jaime Alvarado

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Jaime,

I believe that Luisa Ruiz de Esparza, the daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana López de Elizalde, married Baltazar Caldera in Aguascalientes on 21 Feb 1667. She would have been 19 years old. Her marriage record reads as follows:

Al margen "Baltasar Caldera
con Luissa ruis
de esparsa casados
y velados"

"En beinte y un dias del mes de febrero
año de mill y seiscientos y sesenta y siete
abiendo presedido todo lo que dispone el
Santo consilio de trento y los sacros
canones in facie ecclesie casse por palabras
de presente que hisieron verdadero ma=
trimonio y velle a Baltasar Caldera
con Luissa ruis de esparsa españoles
fueron testigos Joan Bauptista Sanches
Miguel Cordero y Gaspar Serrano
y lo firme Geronimo Lopes del Carpio"

Luisa and Baltazar had one child, María Caldera Ruiz de Esparza, baptized in Aguascalientes 13 Oct 1668. Luisa died giving birth to her first child and was buried in Aguascalientes on 2 Sep 1668. Her burial record reads as follows:

Al margen: "Septe
Luisa Ruis de
esparsa Spla mugr
q' fue de Bal=
tasar Caldera"

En dos dias del mes de septiembre de mil y seiscientos y sesenta y ocho años
en esta Villa de Aguascalientes fallecio Luisa Ruis de esparsa Muger q'
fue de Baltasar Caldera Espl recivio los Stos Sacramtos. del Viatico, y Extrema
Unccion No hiso testamento por no tener bienes y la enterre en esta Yglesia Parro=
chial dicho dia Ut Supra y lo firme Br. Nicolas de Echerreaga"

Again, no mention of her parents in her burial record. I have not found any other records for María Caldera, so I believe she probably died young.

Luisa was baptized 28 Feb 1648 in Aguascalientes. Her godfather Francisco Gómez was the husband of her older sister Margarita. Francisco and Margarita wed in Aguascalientes on 3 Jun 1647.

I don't think this is the Luisa who married Pedro Macias Valades. She would have been 36 years old in 1684. Pedro and Luisa had at least five children:

Isabel b. 1685
Margarita b. 1686
Josepha b. 1688
Pedro b. 1689
María b. 1691

Luisa would have been 43 years old when María was born in 1691. I believe the Luisa that married Pedro Macías Valadez was indeed Luisa Gómez, alias Luisa Ruiz de Esparza. Was she a daughter of Francisco Gómez and Margarita Ruiz de Esparza, thus the alias Ruiz de Esparza? The surnames Gómez and Ruiz de Esparza were closely related at that point in time. I'll do some more checking.

To be continued...

Bill Figueroa

Yo tengo registrada a Luisa Ruiz de Esparza, la mujer de Pedro Macías Valadez como hija de Salvador Ruiz de Esparza y Francisca Vallín. Lo encontré en su acta de defunción, y ahí menciona que es hija de ellos.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Hola, Jorge puede decirme que es la fecha de la defunción de Luisa? Gracias

-Daniel M. Camino

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Hola, creo que tengo un error aquí. Acabo de revisar las fechas que tengo de defunción tanto de Luisa de Esparza y de Pedro Macías, y tengo un error.

Tengo como fecha de defunción de Luisa de Esparza el 19 de mayo de 1739, pero lo revisé ahorita, y no es Luisa sino Juana de Esparza, viuda de Pedro Macías e hija de Salvador Ruiz de Esparza y Francisca Vallín.

Lo anterior también se me hizo raro porque también revisé la fecha de defunción de Pedro Macías con fecha de 14 de julio de 1737, y ahi menciona que es viudo de Luisa de Esparza, por lo tanto Luisa de Esparza debió morir antes de 1737, y no en 1739 como tengo.

Siento mucho haber hecho este comentario tan errado. Perdón.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Jorge,

Encontré el registro del entierro de Luisa Gómez (alias Luisa de Esparza) pero no menciona a sus padres. Dice:

Al margen: "Luisa Gomes casada con Pedro Macias"

"En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en dos de Marso de mil setecientos y treinta años en esta Santa Yglesia Parrochial enterre a Luisa Gomes española casada con Pedro Macias Vecinos de esta Villa. Recibio los Santos Sacramentos de Penitencia, Eucaristia y Extrema Uncion no hiso testamento porque no tubo de que y para que conste lo firme. Br. Alexandro Calvillo"

Este documento no menciona a sus padres. Tienes a un Salvador Ruiz de Esparza casado con Francisca Vallín? De donde proviene el apellido Gómez?

Gracias,

Bill Figueroa

TRANSLATION

Jorge,

I found the burial record of Luisa Gómez (aka Luisa de Esparza) but it does NOT mention her parents. It reads:

Al margen: "Luisa Gomes casada con Pedro Macias"

"En la Villa de Aguas Calientes en dos de Marso de mil setecientos y treinta años en esta Santa Yglesia Parrochial enterre a Luisa Gomes española casada con Pedro Macias Vecinos de esta Villa. Recibio los Santos Sacramentos de Penitencia, Eucaristia y Extrema Uncion no hiso testamento porque no tubo de que y para que conste lo firme. Br. Alexandro Calvillo"

This document does not mention her parents. Do you have a Salvador Ruiz de Esparza married to Francisca Vallin? Where does the Gómez comes from?

Thanks,

Bill Figueroa

Stuart,
Regarding Elizalde, I have found the surname as Lisaldi, Lisalde, Lisardi (with s or z) for the same individual in different records (christening, marriage, burial, etc). Like most basque surnames Elizalde has a simple meaning: next to the church.
There are several websites that deal with origins, variations and meaning of basque surnames. One in spanish,english, french or basque is:

http://www.geocities.com/apellidos_vascos/apellidos.html

For Elizalde they give: Delissalde, Elisalde, Elissalt, Elizade, Lizalde, all equivalent.

There is also a book on basque surnames, available in CD: http://www.euskalnet.net/lizardicb/apellidos.htm

A site that I recommend to everyone in Nuestros Ranchos is: http://apellido.enfemenino.com/w/apellidos/apellido-elizalde.html. Here you can obtain the current distribution and frequency of surnames in Spain. You can identify that certain variations of a surname are highly localized. Interestingly, certain surnames very frequent in Los Altos and neighboring areas, are extremely rare today in Spain (e.g, Ruiz de Esparza or Esparza). This maybe analogous to a 'founder-effect' in an evolutionary context, where 'by chance' rare 'alleles=surnames' in the original population, arrived to a new area where they experienced a rapid expansion after colonization. Its a lot of fun.

To summarize, variations of Elizalde are interchangeable. I recall that recently there was some comments on this same issue. Regarding Elizondo, my guess is that the same would apply, but I am sure that others in the group can give us examples of the variations of that surname.

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Armstrong"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:44:10 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde

I have a question indirectly related:
Are Elizalde and Lizalde interchangeable?
Are Elizondo and Lizondo interchangeable?

--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com

Pedro's daughter Luisa Esparza was known as Ma. Luisa Ángeles but she used de los Reyes as her surname mostly. The other Luisa, Jacinto's daughter appears as Juana Luisa Ruiz de Esparza on her daughter Margarita de Macías y Valadés' baptism. Not sure where she gets Juana? Possibly her mother, kinda hard since both sets of Luisas have Juanas as her mother. Juana López de Elizalde and Juana Ruiz de Lozano. Just thouhgt this might help with something. -Daniel

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Big time, the original López de Elizalde but with time it was shorten to Elizalde but others did keep the entire thing, varioations in spelling came about Lisalde, Elisalde, Lisardi, Lizardi, list goes on....-Daniel

> Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:44:10 -0600
> From: stuartarms@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde
>
> I have a question indirectly related:
> Are Elizalde and Lizalde interchangeable?
> Are Elizondo and Lizondo interchangeable?
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
>

I just wonder which Luisa married to Pedro Macías Valadés. Maybe it was a second husband. I dont think Luisa who married Pedro Romo, daughter of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza married a second time. Its possible this Pedro Macias who married a Luisa was the same Luisa the daughter of Jacinto. But there is no documentation so its hard to tell, We DO know it has to be these Luisas. -Daniel

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Hi, again, I looked in my database and possibly confirm that PEdro Macías was son of Tomás Macías and MAría López de Elizalde. I had a Pedro who married "Juana" de Esparza, since this other Pedro we speak of married a Luisa Esparza, and their daughters baptism she appears as Juana Luisa Esparza, I think its the same women, because of the time period is symmetrical. -Daniel

Jaime, Luisa was the daughter of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lozano from Aguascalientes.

Miguel Angel Gutierrez
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaime Alvarado
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde

Juan de Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza on Dec. 13, 1666 in Aguascalientes (no parents listed). I've checked all the images of "Informacion Matrimonial" for 1666 in Pilot, but there are several months missing for that year. I was able to identify two potential individuals in Aguascalientes: Luisa Esparza Lozano, b. 6 Feb 1637, daughter of Pedro Ruiz Esparza and Juana Lozano, and Luisa Esparza Lisalde, born 28 Feb 1648 daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez Lisalde. I also know that Pedro Macias Valades married a Luisa de Esparza on July 2 1684 (no parents listed), after the death of his first wife, Francisca de Quiroga. Thus I am trying to figure out which of the two Luisas correspond to the respective marriages. Any help will be appreciated.

Jaime

Miggy,
I am assuming that you are referring to the Luisa married to Juan de Ortiz. If that is correct then:
Juan Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza Lozano and Pedro Macias Valades married Luisa de Esparza Lisalde.

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: "Miggy GUTIERREZ"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 4:04:58 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde

Jaime, Luisa was the daughter of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lozano from Aguascalientes.

Miguel Angel Gutierrez
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaime Alvarado
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde

Juan de Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza on Dec. 13, 1666 in Aguascalientes (no parents listed). I've checked all the images of "Informacion Matrimonial" for 1666 in Pilot, but there are several months missing for that year. I was able to identify two potential individuals in Aguascalientes: Luisa Esparza Lozano, b. 6 Feb 1637, daughter of Pedro Ruiz Esparza and Juana Lozano, and Luisa Esparza Lisalde, born 28 Feb 1648 daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez Lisalde. I also know that Pedro Macias Valades married a Luisa de Esparza on July 2 1684 (no parents listed), after the death of his first wife, Francisca de Quiroga. Thus I am trying to figure out which of the two Luisas correspond to the respective marriages. Any help will be appreciated.

Jaime

The Luisa Ruiz de Esparza I have married to Juan Ortiz, was born Feb 6, 1637 in Aguascalientes. Married Dec 13, 1666. Her Parents were Pedro Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lozano. Other brothers she had were Nicolas, Maria, Nicolasa, Matiana, Juan, Beatriz
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaime R. Alvarado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde

Miggy,
I am assuming that you are referring to the Luisa married to Juan de Ortiz. If that is correct then:
Juan Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza Lozano and Pedro Macias Valades married Luisa de Esparza Lisalde.

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: "Miggy GUTIERREZ" >
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 4:04:58 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde

Jaime, Luisa was the daughter of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lozano from Aguascalientes.

Miguel Angel Gutierrez
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaime Alvarado>
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Luisa Esparza Lozano or Luisa Esparza Lizalde

Juan de Ortiz married Luisa de Esparza on Dec. 13, 1666 in Aguascalientes (no parents listed). I've checked all the images of "Informacion Matrimonial" for 1666 in Pilot, but there are several months missing for that year. I was able to identify two potential individuals in Aguascalientes: Luisa Esparza Lozano, b. 6 Feb 1637, daughter of Pedro Ruiz Esparza and Juana Lozano, and Luisa Esparza Lisalde, born 28 Feb 1648 daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lopez Lisalde. I also know that Pedro Macias Valades married a Luisa de Esparza on July 2 1684 (no parents listed), after the death of his first wife, Francisca de Quiroga. Thus I am trying to figure out which of the two Luisas correspond to the respective marriages. Any help will be appreciated.

Jaime

It cant be Pedro's daughter Luisa who married Juan Ortiz because she was was married to PEdro Romo de Vivar at the time. It should be the other Luisa her cousin, daughter of Jacinto Ruiz de Esparza. -Daniel

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