Hi All, does anyone know if these two families are one in the same? I ve seen occasions when both names are used and others not. Martínez de Sotomayor and Martín de Sotomayor both tend to be in upper Los Altos and Aguascalientes. Does anyone know the patriarch of this (these) families. I have many of them in early 1600s but not sure if they are all siblings. -Daniel
My experience is that these names are often the same, with Martin. being used as the abbreviation of Martines. I've found dozens of examples of this name shift in my own genealogy. You just can't tell. Here's just one example, for Connie Dominguez, that shows MARTINES and MARTIN being used interchangeably.
Juan Jose MARTINEZ SOTOMAIOR and wife Juana ROMO DE VIVAR had at least two children: Juana Cayetana and Ygnacio Cayetano (esposa Rosa LANDEROS)
BAPTISM: Images, Pilot Site
Ags, Sagrario, Hac. Cieneguilla, Bautismos 1716-1734, Image 20
30 Aug 1717
Jna. Caietana, a quien echo el agua Andres GOMES, persona capaz
hija lexitima de Ju. MARTIN De SOTO MAIOR y Ju.a. ROMO DE VIVAR, su esposa
DEATH: #299861, Pilot Site
Burial 1 Apr 1777, Aguascalientes
Ygnacio Cayetano MARTINEZ DE SOTOMAYOR
born Agostadero
hijo de Juan MARTINEZ DE SOTOMAYOR y Juana ROMO DE VIVAR
Casado con Rosa LANDEROS.
Their son's baptism:
BAPTISM: #299530, Images, Pilot Site
Ags, Sagrario, Hac. Cieneguilla, Bau 1721-1754, image 58
16 Feb 1749
Joseph Ygnacio Juachin MARTIN
hijo legitimo de Ygnacio MARTIN y Rosa LANDEROS, españoles
Madrina: Faustina LANDEROS
[I believe Rosa LANDEROS is Rosa Prudencia LANDEROS,
hija de Joan Anttonio LANDEROS y Beatriz LOPES Chabes]
Connie, I've been reading through the above records and MARTIN certainly looks like MARIN, it's easy to see how the transcriber could mistake one for the other, the writing is incredibly small.
Connie,
Your (and Mary Lou's) info on Isidro Martin de Sotomayor's father and grandfather is one I been searching for a while. Thanks a lot! Regarding the children of Isidro and Josefa, I have a Ygnacio born on 15 march 1691 in Cienega de Mata, Jalisco (Batch M602321 Source 0641049). They also had other children, Antonia Toribia (my ancestor) married to Antonio de Aranda, and Juliana married to Nicolas Munos de Geres.
Jaime
----- Original Message -----
From: cdominguez10@elp.rr.com
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2009 3:11:59 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martínez de Sotomayor vs. Martín de Sotomayor
Daniel,
I've been through my Martin/Martinez de Sotomayor families and I don't have a clear answer yet. What appears to me is that the Martinez came from the Martin (which is usually the case), because I've got Martin surnames that go back further than the Martinez groups. This also holds if you look through the general surname searches on the IGI at FamiySearch. However, I can't seem to pinpoint the change.
My last ancestor of the Martinez group so far is Juan Jose Martinez de Sotomayor, born c. 1696 in Juiquinaque, Aguas. and married to Juana Romo de Vivar (dau. of Francisco Romo & Micaela Villalobos) c. 1716. However, I have an additional note in my files that says he was also listed as Juan Marin Soto-Marin on his daughter Juana Caietana's baptismal. I believe he is listed as Juan Marinez de Sotomayor on his other children's baptismals, as there are no notes I made on their entries.
On the Martin de Sotomayor side, my last ancestor is Juan Ignacio Martin de Sotomayor married to Josefa Casillas Cabrera somewhere before 1723. (1723 is the approximate birth of their son, Bartolome, according to Bartolome's marriage document found in IGI Batch #868026 Film # 1396255 Sheet #35).
I've found suggestions on the IGI that Juan Ignacio is the son of Isidro Martin de Sotomayor & Josefa Lopez de la Cerda. This Isidro, born in the early 1600s, is in turn the son of Andres Martin de Sotomayor and Maria de Isla who lived in Teocaltiche (as you said...upper Altos regions). (This latter info I received from Mary Lou Montagna).
The info I have on Andres states that his father was also Andres Martin and his mother was Maria de las Roelas (also known as Sotomayor). I also have info that states that Andres Martin, the younger, was also known as "de Camacho" on one of his son's baptismals. I'm assuming that he might have had a grandmother that was Camacho?
Sorry....that's about as far back as I've gotten. Of course, I have some famiies filled out a bit laterally, but I don't go back any farther. Sorry about that.
Let me know if you find out anything farther back. I've just not investigated these lines as much as I'd like to have done.
=============
Hi All, does anyone know if these two families are one in the same? I ve seen occasions when both names are used and others not. Martínez de Sotomayor and Martín de Sotomayor both tend to be in upper Los Altos and Aguascalientes. Does anyone know the patriarch of this (these) families. I have many of them in early 1600s but not sure if they are all siblings. -Daniel
Daniel,
I've been through my Martin/Martinez de Sotomayor families and I don't have a clear answer yet. What appears to me is that the Martinez came from the Martin (which is usually the case), because I've got Martin surnames that go back further than the Martinez groups. This also holds if you look through the general surname searches on the IGI at FamiySearch. However, I can't seem to pinpoint the change.
My last ancestor of the Martinez group so far is Juan Jose Martinez de Sotomayor, born c. 1696 in Juiquinaque, Aguas. and married to Juana Romo de Vivar (dau. of Francisco Romo & Micaela Villalobos) c. 1716. However, I have an additional note in my files that says he was also listed as Juan Marin Soto-Marin on his daughter Juana Caietana's baptismal. I believe he is listed as Juan Marinez de Sotomayor on his other children's baptismals, as there are no notes I made on their entries.
On the Martin de Sotomayor side, my last ancestor is Juan Ignacio Martin de Sotomayor married to Josefa Casillas Cabrera somewhere before 1723. (1723 is the approximate birth of their son, Bartolome, according to Bartolome's marriage document found in IGI Batch #868026 Film # 1396255 Sheet #35).
I've found suggestions on the IGI that Juan Ignacio is the son of Isidro Martin de Sotomayor & Josefa Lopez de la Cerda. This Isidro, born in the early 1600s, is in turn the son of Andres Martin de Sotomayor and Maria de Isla who lived in Teocaltiche (as you said...upper Altos regions). (This latter info I received from Mary Lou Montagna).
The info I have on Andres states that his father was also Andres Martin and his mother was Maria de las Roelas (also known as Sotomayor). I also have info that states that Andres Martin, the younger, was also known as "de Camacho" on one of his son's baptismals. I'm assuming that he might have had a grandmother that was Camacho?
Sorry....that's about as far back as I've gotten. Of course, I have some famiies filled out a bit laterally, but I don't go back any farther. Sorry about that.
Let me know if you find out anything farther back. I've just not investigated these lines as much as I'd like to have done.
=============
Hi All, does anyone know if these two families are one in the same? I ve seen occasions when both names are used and others not. Martínez de Sotomayor and Martín de Sotomayor both tend to be in upper Los Altos and Aguascalientes. Does anyone know the patriarch of this (these) families. I have many of them in early 1600s but not sure if they are all siblings. -Daniel
I've been following your messages on the Martin/Martinez subject and would
like to add a short comment, if I may.
My wife's father was Jose de Jesus Martinez Villalpando, born in Cañadas
de Obregon, Jalisco in 1916. His father was: Eugenio Martin Valadez. grand
parents were:Atanacio Martin, born about 1865, and Alejandra Valadez.
Jesus's mother was Antonina Villalpando Gomez, daughter of: Marciano
Villalpando y Apolonia Gomez.
It looks like the Martinez last name was started with him (Jose de Jesus)
and his brothers, the Martin was dropped in this case. They all moved to
Teocaltiche and later on some moved to Guadalajara, La Barca, and Puebla.
Last year I met one of my wife's cousins, who is the Doctor/Administrator
of the Seguro Social Hospital in Puebla, He told me that originally the
name Martinez had evolved from Martin del Campo, to Martin, and ended being
Martinez, that was the case with this family.
It could be different for other lines of Martin del Campo descendents in
other areas of Los Altos. The compound name could have been, and probably
was, shortened to these variations:: Martin, del Campo, Campo, and Martinez.
I have only researched my wife's father back to his grandfather, Atanacio
Martin, born about 1865. It is possible that further back his ancestors
could have been Martin del Campo, but I have not researched that line enough
to get me to that point yet.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 13:11
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martínez de Sotomayor vs. Martín de
Sotomayor
> Daniel,
> I've been through my Martin/Martinez de Sotomayor families ...
=============
Hi All, does anyone know if these two families are one in the same? I ve seen occasions when both names are used and others not. Martínez de Sotomayor and Martín de Sotomayor both tend to be in upper Los Altos and Aguascalientes. Does anyone know the patriarch of this (these) families. I have many of them in early 1600s but not sure if they are all siblings. -Daniel
Martines Sotomayor vs Martin Sotomayor
My experience is that these names are often the same, with Martin. being used as the abbreviation of Martines. I've found dozens of examples of this name shift in my own genealogy. You just can't tell. Here's just one example, for Connie Dominguez, that shows MARTINES and MARTIN being used interchangeably.
Juan Jose MARTINEZ SOTOMAIOR and wife Juana ROMO DE VIVAR had at least two children: Juana Cayetana and Ygnacio Cayetano (esposa Rosa LANDEROS)
BAPTISM: Images, Pilot Site
Ags, Sagrario, Hac. Cieneguilla, Bautismos 1716-1734, Image 20
30 Aug 1717
Jna. Caietana, a quien echo el agua Andres GOMES, persona capaz
hija lexitima de Ju. MARTIN De SOTO MAIOR y Ju.a. ROMO DE VIVAR, su esposa
DEATH: #299861, Pilot Site
Burial 1 Apr 1777, Aguascalientes
Ygnacio Cayetano MARTINEZ DE SOTOMAYOR
born Agostadero
hijo de Juan MARTINEZ DE SOTOMAYOR y Juana ROMO DE VIVAR
Casado con Rosa LANDEROS.
Their son's baptism:
BAPTISM: #299530, Images, Pilot Site
Ags, Sagrario, Hac. Cieneguilla, Bau 1721-1754, image 58
16 Feb 1749
Joseph Ygnacio Juachin MARTIN
hijo legitimo de Ygnacio MARTIN y Rosa LANDEROS, españoles
Madrina: Faustina LANDEROS
[I believe Rosa LANDEROS is Rosa Prudencia LANDEROS,
hija de Joan Anttonio LANDEROS y Beatriz LOPES Chabes]
Connie, I've been reading through the above records and MARTIN certainly looks like MARIN, it's easy to see how the transcriber could mistake one for the other, the writing is incredibly small.
Gloria Delgado
Martínez de Sotomayor vs. Martín de Sotomayor
Connie,
Your (and Mary Lou's) info on Isidro Martin de Sotomayor's father and grandfather is one I been searching for a while. Thanks a lot! Regarding the children of Isidro and Josefa, I have a Ygnacio born on 15 march 1691 in Cienega de Mata, Jalisco (Batch M602321 Source 0641049). They also had other children, Antonia Toribia (my ancestor) married to Antonio de Aranda, and Juliana married to Nicolas Munos de Geres.
Jaime
----- Original Message -----
From: cdominguez10@elp.rr.com
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2009 3:11:59 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martínez de Sotomayor vs. Martín de Sotomayor
Daniel,
I've been through my Martin/Martinez de Sotomayor families and I don't have a clear answer yet. What appears to me is that the Martinez came from the Martin (which is usually the case), because I've got Martin surnames that go back further than the Martinez groups. This also holds if you look through the general surname searches on the IGI at FamiySearch. However, I can't seem to pinpoint the change.
My last ancestor of the Martinez group so far is Juan Jose Martinez de Sotomayor, born c. 1696 in Juiquinaque, Aguas. and married to Juana Romo de Vivar (dau. of Francisco Romo & Micaela Villalobos) c. 1716. However, I have an additional note in my files that says he was also listed as Juan Marin Soto-Marin on his daughter Juana Caietana's baptismal. I believe he is listed as Juan Marinez de Sotomayor on his other children's baptismals, as there are no notes I made on their entries.
On the Martin de Sotomayor side, my last ancestor is Juan Ignacio Martin de Sotomayor married to Josefa Casillas Cabrera somewhere before 1723. (1723 is the approximate birth of their son, Bartolome, according to Bartolome's marriage document found in IGI Batch #868026 Film # 1396255 Sheet #35).
I've found suggestions on the IGI that Juan Ignacio is the son of Isidro Martin de Sotomayor & Josefa Lopez de la Cerda. This Isidro, born in the early 1600s, is in turn the son of Andres Martin de Sotomayor and Maria de Isla who lived in Teocaltiche (as you said...upper Altos regions). (This latter info I received from Mary Lou Montagna).
The info I have on Andres states that his father was also Andres Martin and his mother was Maria de las Roelas (also known as Sotomayor). I also have info that states that Andres Martin, the younger, was also known as "de Camacho" on one of his son's baptismals. I'm assuming that he might have had a grandmother that was Camacho?
Sorry....that's about as far back as I've gotten. Of course, I have some famiies filled out a bit laterally, but I don't go back any farther. Sorry about that.
Let me know if you find out anything farther back. I've just not investigated these lines as much as I'd like to have done.
Take care,
Connie Dominguez
---- mendezdelcamino@live.com wrote:
=============
Hi All, does anyone know if these two families are one in the same? I ve seen occasions when both names are used and others not. Martínez de Sotomayor and Martín de Sotomayor both tend to be in upper Los Altos and Aguascalientes. Does anyone know the patriarch of this (these) families. I have many of them in early 1600s but not sure if they are all siblings. -Daniel
Martínez de Sotomayor vs. Martín de Sotomayor
Daniel,
I've been through my Martin/Martinez de Sotomayor families and I don't have a clear answer yet. What appears to me is that the Martinez came from the Martin (which is usually the case), because I've got Martin surnames that go back further than the Martinez groups. This also holds if you look through the general surname searches on the IGI at FamiySearch. However, I can't seem to pinpoint the change.
My last ancestor of the Martinez group so far is Juan Jose Martinez de Sotomayor, born c. 1696 in Juiquinaque, Aguas. and married to Juana Romo de Vivar (dau. of Francisco Romo & Micaela Villalobos) c. 1716. However, I have an additional note in my files that says he was also listed as Juan Marin Soto-Marin on his daughter Juana Caietana's baptismal. I believe he is listed as Juan Marinez de Sotomayor on his other children's baptismals, as there are no notes I made on their entries.
On the Martin de Sotomayor side, my last ancestor is Juan Ignacio Martin de Sotomayor married to Josefa Casillas Cabrera somewhere before 1723. (1723 is the approximate birth of their son, Bartolome, according to Bartolome's marriage document found in IGI Batch #868026 Film # 1396255 Sheet #35).
I've found suggestions on the IGI that Juan Ignacio is the son of Isidro Martin de Sotomayor & Josefa Lopez de la Cerda. This Isidro, born in the early 1600s, is in turn the son of Andres Martin de Sotomayor and Maria de Isla who lived in Teocaltiche (as you said...upper Altos regions). (This latter info I received from Mary Lou Montagna).
The info I have on Andres states that his father was also Andres Martin and his mother was Maria de las Roelas (also known as Sotomayor). I also have info that states that Andres Martin, the younger, was also known as "de Camacho" on one of his son's baptismals. I'm assuming that he might have had a grandmother that was Camacho?
Sorry....that's about as far back as I've gotten. Of course, I have some famiies filled out a bit laterally, but I don't go back any farther. Sorry about that.
Let me know if you find out anything farther back. I've just not investigated these lines as much as I'd like to have done.
Take care,
Connie Dominguez
---- mendezdelcamino@live.com wrote:
=============
Hi All, does anyone know if these two families are one in the same? I ve seen occasions when both names are used and others not. Martínez de Sotomayor and Martín de Sotomayor both tend to be in upper Los Altos and Aguascalientes. Does anyone know the patriarch of this (these) families. I have many of them in early 1600s but not sure if they are all siblings. -Daniel
Martin/Martinez
my 2 centavos worth...
I've been following your messages on the Martin/Martinez subject and would
like to add a short comment, if I may.
My wife's father was Jose de Jesus Martinez Villalpando, born in Cañadas
de Obregon, Jalisco in 1916. His father was: Eugenio Martin Valadez. grand
parents were:Atanacio Martin, born about 1865, and Alejandra Valadez.
Jesus's mother was Antonina Villalpando Gomez, daughter of: Marciano
Villalpando y Apolonia Gomez.
It looks like the Martinez last name was started with him (Jose de Jesus)
and his brothers, the Martin was dropped in this case. They all moved to
Teocaltiche and later on some moved to Guadalajara, La Barca, and Puebla.
Last year I met one of my wife's cousins, who is the Doctor/Administrator
of the Seguro Social Hospital in Puebla, He told me that originally the
name Martinez had evolved from Martin del Campo, to Martin, and ended being
Martinez, that was the case with this family.
It could be different for other lines of Martin del Campo descendents in
other areas of Los Altos. The compound name could have been, and probably
was, shortened to these variations:: Martin, del Campo, Campo, and Martinez.
I have only researched my wife's father back to his grandfather, Atanacio
Martin, born about 1865. It is possible that further back his ancestors
could have been Martin del Campo, but I have not researched that line enough
to get me to that point yet.
John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.
1gnzlz@verizon.net
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 13:11
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martínez de Sotomayor vs. Martín de
Sotomayor
> Daniel,
> I've been through my Martin/Martinez de Sotomayor families ...
Martínez de Sotomayor vs. Martín de Sotomayor
Daniel,
I think I have some older info on these families, but I can't remember exactly what I found. I will respond with more info after searching at home.
Connie Dominguez
El Paso, TX
---- mendezdelcamino@live.com wrote:
=============
Hi All, does anyone know if these two families are one in the same? I ve seen occasions when both names are used and others not. Martínez de Sotomayor and Martín de Sotomayor both tend to be in upper Los Altos and Aguascalientes. Does anyone know the patriarch of this (these) families. I have many of them in early 1600s but not sure if they are all siblings. -Daniel