Armando,

Thank yoou so much for clarifying this business of all those "Lagos". My mother was an American Native and my father was from Zacatecas with only some of his ancestors having come from Cienega de Mata, so I am unfamiliar with Jalisco.

My husband's ancestors came from Encarnacion de Diaz, or were baptized there, but some of those records indicate they lived in a place called "Santa Maria" (no Lagos mentioned). They themselves (his grandfather and great-grandfather) always claimed they were born in Encarnacion. Others of his ancestors did come from San Juan de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Santa Barbara, San Matias, Colotlan, Ayo el Chico, Atotonilco, Mariquita, Canada de Agustin, Tlaltenango, and way, way back from Aguascalientes and Rincon de Romos.

Since my husband's ancestors immigrated to the States in the late 1800s, he was unaware, as I was, of the term "laguense". The majority of my husband's ancestors came from Lagos de Moreno, so I will now tell him that he is a "laguense", or at least his ancestors were.

If you Google "Matheo de Arteaga", in those exact terms with quotes, it will bring up two excellent articles about Matheo de Arteaga who was a very accomplished person, a Jesuit, of the mid 1700s in Aguascalientes and Jalisco.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 22:50:27 -0500
> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>
> Emilie,
>
> Santa María de los Lagos changed it's name on April 9 1829 to Lagos de
> Moreno in order to honor the insurgent Pedro Moreno González who
> helped fight for independance from Spain. He was an hacendado and a
> descendant of Diego Moreno de Ortega Villegas and Leonarda de Araujo y
> Guerrero. San Juan de Los Lagos is named after Lagos de Moreno which
> is where most of its settlers came from and is just west from the
> Lagos. Ciénega de Mata is now within the municipal district of Lagos
> de Moreno but at one time was one of the largest landholdings in
> México covering multiple states and was owned by the RIncón-Gallardo
> family. I also share ancestors, like many of us, with the
> Rincón-Gallardo family. I had never heard of Mateo José de Arteaga y
> Rincón Gallardo until now.
>
> Armando
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Emilie Garcia
> wrote:
> >
> > Armando,
> >
> > The person that is referred to as "laguense" in some articles I found online is Matheo de Arteaga, a then well-known Doctor of Theology and Canonical law and a Jesuit priest at the time in Aguascalientes which was Zacatecas I believe. I just found his baptism record from 1739 and it says he was born in Santa Maria de los Lagos. He was born in the same place where some of my ancestors came from, Cienega de Mata. Matheo's maternal grandparents owned that place, originally a hacienda? I thought it was in Jalisco, but the boundaries of the states have changed so much over the years and I am really confused now, especially with all the places that use "Lagos" in their name.
> >
> > Emilie
> >
> >> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 19:18:26 -0500
> >> From: fandemma@gmail.com
> >> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
> >>
> >> The answer is an absolute and astounding NO. Laguense is reserved for
> >> people from Lagos de Moreno ONLY.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 6:57 PM, wrote:
> >> > Could it be that laguense meant that he was from San juan de los Lagos?
> >> > RA Ricci
> >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Emilie Garcia
> >> > Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:32:35
> >> > To:
> >> > Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> >> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
> >> >
> >> > 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense Mateo José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal., Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes 1999
> >> >
> >> > Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido". What is meant by that? Why would a certain span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks in advance.
> >> >
> >> > Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"? Y tambien, porque "no velados por ser tiempo prohibido". Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
> >> >
> >> > Gracias antemano,
> >> >
> >> > Emilie
> >> > Port Orchard, WA
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >> >
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> >> >
> >> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >> >
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> >> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >> >
> >> > To change your subscription, log on to:
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> >> >
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
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> >>
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> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
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> >

Thank you so much Alicia. My husband just told me that back in those days, the Church was the State and had laws that covered all activities. The Revolution and the Cristero wars changed all that.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 14:30:42 -0700
> From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo prohibido?
>
> Emilie,
>
> Another time that could have been tiempo prohibido was during advent, the 4
> weeks leading up to Christimas. They would most likely marry them privately but
> not announce the wedding bans and of course this was all subject to the rules of
> that particular era in the church. Things most likely changed from time to time.
>
> Alicia,
> San jose, Ca.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Emilie Garcia
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 2:23:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo
> prohibido?
>
>
> Thank you Armando and Alicia for your responses.
>
> Alicia, is there another "tiempo prohibido" besides Lent? I looked at the date
> of the marriage and it says what looks to be contradictory---in the beginning it
> says "Casado y velado.....en Jerez el 16 de diciembre de 1739....." Then at the
> end it says "no fueron velados por ser tiempo prohibido". Did the priest mean
> to say that they were only "casados" and not also "velados"? Is December a holy
> time for the whole month because of Christmas? I thought Christmastime in
> Mexico was Dec. 25 to Jan 6, no? The 12 days of Christmas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 13:13:39 -0700
> > From: alliecar@pacbell.net
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo
> >prohibido?
> >
> >
> > Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron
> > velados por ser tiempo prohibido".
> >
> >
> >
> > Emilie,
> > Tiempo prohibido would be during Lent where this was a sacred and holy time ,
> > marriages were typically not conducted during Lent in the Catholic Church.
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Armando
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Sent: Fri, April 15, 2011 11:41:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation, please - laguense? tiempo
> > prohibido?
> >
> > Hola Emilie,
> >
> > Laguenses are those of us from Lagos de Moreno. The u is silent in
> > this case unlike güero which is pronounced like wero using English
> > sounds. Therefore pronounced la-gen-se with a g like lagos.
> >
> > Saludos,
> > Armando
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Emilie Garcia
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Can someone tell me what is meant by "laguense" in the excerpt below?
> > >
> > > 57Gutiérrez Gutiérrez, José Antonio. Los cuadernos de visita del laguense
> >Mateo
> >
> > >José de Arteaga a 17 pueblos del sur de Jalisco en 1767 [Guadalajara, Jal.,
> > >Méx.] Universidad de Guadalajara : Universidad Autónoma de Aguascalientes
> 1999
> > >
> > > Also, I found in a marriage for a couple in Jerez where it says "no fueron
> > >velados por ser tiempo prohibido". What is meant by that? Why would a certain
>
> > >span of time prohibit the nuptial benediction?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > Halguien puede explicar que es "laguense"? Y tambien, porque "no velados por
>
> > >ser tiempo prohibido". Porque hay tiempo de prohibir bendiciones nuptiales?
> > >
> > > Gracias antemano,
> > >
> > > Emilie
> > > Port Orchard, WA
> > >
> > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
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> >
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>