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Por alicebb |

Dear Group,
I've come across something new to me.  I can't find my 7grgrandfather's, Miguel Anaya Villagran aka Villagran Anaya, baptismal/birth information, but on his 1719 informacion matrimonial to Angela Alcantara Navarrete, it says he's an orphan.  Does this mean that he was born to padres no conosidos? Then how did he get the compound surnames?  I've seen where parents have been named as adoptive parents on marriages, but not here. 
Their daughter, Pheliciana Ma Petra Anaya Villagran's baptismal entry doesn't name any grandparents.   How would one proceed with this line, or is it just a dead end?  Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks so much,  Alice Blake

if the child truly is a huerfano then it is a dead end but if it a
family member via a mistress, maid, rape, etc. then it would be
something that maybe only a Y-DNA test and some very difficult genealogy
research can solve. Unless you find some unusual record that spells out
the situation.

for example if you suspect that the child is a family member then if he
is a male child then you'd need to trace to one of his currently living
direct line descendants and compare that male's YDNA with one you know
for sure is not a huerfano but wears that same last name's YDNA.

very hard and difficult to achieve.

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

Alice,
I've seen examples of certain priests to refer to 'huerfano' or 'huerfana', instead of 'padres no conocidos', when when the respective groom or bride belong to a well to do family. My interpretation is that it woud be a way of hidding what the community at the time would perceive as somewhat obscure and perhaps embaracing (ilegitimate), origin. It was kind of a no ask don't tell attitude, that may legitimatize future generations. In my experience, these are dead end cases, with few exceptions where ilegitimate children are ultimately recognized in last wills and testaments by their parents.

Jaime Alvarado

Alicia,
I also have a male ancestor who was "hijo de la iglesia" at baptism and in the info matrimonial dated 1680 he was "huerfano, criado en la casa de xxx." He was raised in a well-to-do family, and married into a well-to-do family -- so I assume the same thing that Jaime Alvarado mentions above. He must have been an illegitimate child of someone in the home. I consider it a dead end; a secret that died with those few who knew the truth about the issue and who his biological parents were.

I have read, although never found such a case, about single daughters in the home who got pregnant. They were kept behind closed doors during pregnancy, gave birth in secret, and then the baby was given to an aunt, uncle or other relative to raise in their home.

Your last bet would be a will in which your ancestor may have been mentioned. Tricky, tricky, tricky.

I request input/thoughts from Nuestros Ranchos members, as this can't be an unique situation within a group of over five hundred members researching hundreds of years back in time.
  I'm interested in hearing from as many members as possible as to how experienced genalogists within and without our group handle a similar situation.  Modern adoptive parents consider their adoptees to be no different from biological offspring. 
Therefore, what is the protocol?  Do genalogists today proceed up the adoptive parents' family trees and consider it the adoptees' background? 
If adoptive parents were named as adoptive parents in old informacion matrimonials, do you stop there, or continue with the adoptive parents' family line as yours?
My thoughts are that long ago, if a couple adopted and considered the child their own, they probably never told the child that he/she was adopted, and they and we continue in ignorant bliss. 
I'm slowly resigning myself to the conclusion that this is a dead end.  It would be extremely difficult concluding who Miguel Anaya Villagran's  parents were as there were very many Anaya/Analla's in the area in the early 1700's, and more children born to padres no conocidos than I would have thought for the time and place. 
Thanks again for all who were kind and thoughtful enough to respond and I look forward to further responses in order to learn from others' experience who are willing to share their knowledge.   Alice Blake
 

--- On Wed, 6/1/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:

From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 6:53 PM

Alice,
I've seen examples of certain priests to refer to 'huerfano' or 'huerfana', instead of 'padres no conocidos', when when the respective groom or bride belong to a well to do family. My interpretation is that it woud be a way of hidding what the community at the time would perceive as somewhat obscure and perhaps embaracing (ilegitimate), origin. It was kind of a no ask don't tell attitude, that may legitimatize future generations. In my experience, these are dead end cases, with few exceptions where ilegitimate children are ultimately recognized in last wills and testaments by their parents.

Jaime Alvarado

Alice,
I have many male cousins who got involved with the maids in their home and
as a result 2 or 3 children were born to these maids. I had an aunt who
adopted all these children because she could not have any of her own. So
while the fathers didn't claim them, they were still adopted and stayed
within the family. Just another possibility.
--Esther Jordan Lopez

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> I request input/thoughts from Nuestros Ranchos members, as this can't be an
> unique situation within a group of over five hundred members researching
> hundreds of years back in time.
> I'm interested in hearing from as many members as possible as to how
> experienced genalogists within and without our group handle a similar
> situation. Modern adoptive parents consider their adoptees to be no
> different from biological offspring.
> Therefore, what is the protocol? Do genalogists today proceed up the
> adoptive parents' family trees and consider it the adoptees' background?
> If adoptive parents were named as adoptive parents in old informacion
> matrimonials, do you stop there, or continue with the adoptive parents'
> family line as yours?
> My thoughts are that long ago, if a couple adopted and considered the
> child their own, they probably never told the child that he/she was adopted,
> and they and we continue in ignorant bliss.
> I'm slowly resigning myself to the conclusion that this is a dead end. It
> would be extremely difficult concluding who Miguel Anaya Villagran's
> parents were as there were very many Anaya/Analla's in the area in the early
> 1700's, and more children born to padres no conocidos than I would have
> thought for the time and place.
> Thanks again for all who were kind and thoughtful enough to respond and I
> look forward to further responses in order to learn from others' experience
> who are willing to share their knowledge. Alice Blake
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 6/1/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:
>
>
> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 6:53 PM
>
>
> Alice,
> I've seen examples of certain priests to refer to 'huerfano' or 'huerfana',
> instead of 'padres no conocidos', when when the respective groom or bride
> belong to a well to do family. My interpretation is that it woud be a way of
> hidding what the community at the time would perceive as somewhat obscure
> and perhaps embaracing (ilegitimate), origin. It was kind of a no ask don't
> tell attitude, that may legitimatize future generations. In my experience,
> these are dead end cases, with few exceptions where ilegitimate children are
> ultimately recognized in last wills and testaments by their parents.
>
> Jaime Alvarado

Alice just sharing one case.. the man was raised as an expuesto in de la Cueva
home and he took their surname and must have been treated as a son since their
children were padrinos and witnesses..  After he married in grew up, had
children all of a sudden Hurtado starts showing up as his surname then he goes
back and forth with both surnames as his children did, this is in Jerez
Zacatecas. I had had a hard time with their lineage and I'm sure he's not the
first to find out who his actual birth parents were, who married and had other
children after him..
not the answer you were looking for but just sharing.  I put them in  the
lineage of the home they were raised in with  a note saying they were expuesto.
Linda on her way to Canada

 

________________________________
From: Alice Blake
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wed, June 1, 2011 5:56:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano

I request input/thoughts from Nuestros Ranchos members, as this can't be an
unique situation within a group of over five hundred members researching
hundreds of years back in time.
  I'm interested in hearing from as many members as possible as to how
experienced genalogists within and without our group handle a similar
situation.  Modern adoptive parents consider their adoptees to be no
different from biological offspring. 

Therefore, what is the protocol?  Do genalogists today proceed up the adoptive
parents' family trees and consider it the adoptees' background? 

If adoptive parents were named as adoptive parents in old informacion
matrimonials, do you stop there, or continue with the adoptive parents' family
line as yours?
My thoughts are that long ago, if a couple adopted and considered the
child their own, they probably never told the child that he/she was adopted, and
they and we continue in ignorant bliss. 

I'm slowly resigning myself to the conclusion that this is a dead end.  It would
be extremely difficult concluding who Miguel Anaya Villagran's  parents were as
there were very many Anaya/Analla's in the area in the early 1700's, and more
children born to padres no conocidos than I would have thought for the time and
place. 

Thanks again for all who were kind and thoughtful enough to respond and I look
forward to further responses in order to learn from others' experience who are
willing to share their knowledge.   Alice Blake
 

--- On Wed, 6/1/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:

From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 6:53 PM

Alice,
I've seen examples of certain priests to refer to 'huerfano' or 'huerfana',
instead of 'padres no conocidos', when when the respective groom or bride belong
to a well to do family. My interpretation is that it woud be a way of hidding
what the community at the time would perceive as somewhat obscure and perhaps
embaracing (ilegitimate), origin. It was kind of a no ask don't tell attitude,
that may legitimatize future generations. In my experience, these are dead end
cases, with few exceptions where ilegitimate children are ultimately recognized
in last wills and testaments by their parents.

Jaime Alvarado

On my wife's side of the family I experiened some of these same issues but after a lot of work I was able to put the pieces together. This was a lomeli/de la cruz line from Jalos the children and parent used these two surnames at different times in their lives until the next generation just used one or the other.
R A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 07:38:02
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano

Alice just sharing one case.. the man was raised as an expuesto in de la Cueva
home and he took their surname and must have been treated as a son since their
children were padrinos and witnesses..  After he married in grew up, had
children all of a sudden Hurtado starts showing up as his surname then he goes
back and forth with both surnames as his children did, this is in Jerez
Zacatecas. I had had a hard time with their lineage and I'm sure he's not the
first to find out who his actual birth parents were, who married and had other
children after him..
not the answer you were looking for but just sharing.  I put them in  the
lineage of the home they were raised in with  a note saying they were expuesto.
Linda on her way to Canada

 

________________________________
From: Alice Blake
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wed, June 1, 2011 5:56:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano

I request input/thoughts from Nuestros Ranchos members, as this can't be an
unique situation within a group of over five hundred members researching
hundreds of years back in time.
  I'm interested in hearing from as many members as possible as to how
experienced genalogists within and without our group handle a similar
situation.  Modern adoptive parents consider their adoptees to be no
different from biological offspring. 

Therefore, what is the protocol?  Do genalogists today proceed up the adoptive
parents' family trees and consider it the adoptees' background? 

If adoptive parents were named as adoptive parents in old informacion
matrimonials, do you stop there, or continue with the adoptive parents' family
line as yours?
My thoughts are that long ago, if a couple adopted and considered the
child their own, they probably never told the child that he/she was adopted, and
they and we continue in ignorant bliss. 

I'm slowly resigning myself to the conclusion that this is a dead end.  It would
be extremely difficult concluding who Miguel Anaya Villagran's  parents were as
there were very many Anaya/Analla's in the area in the early 1700's, and more
children born to padres no conocidos than I would have thought for the time and
place. 

Thanks again for all who were kind and thoughtful enough to respond and I look
forward to further responses in order to learn from others' experience who are
willing to share their knowledge.   Alice Blake
 

--- On Wed, 6/1/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:

From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 6:53 PM

Alice,
I've seen examples of certain priests to refer to 'huerfano' or 'huerfana',
instead of 'padres no conocidos', when when the respective groom or bride belong
to a well to do family. My interpretation is that it woud be a way of hidding
what the community at the time would perceive as somewhat obscure and perhaps
embaracing (ilegitimate), origin. It was kind of a no ask don't tell attitude,
that may legitimatize future generations. In my experience, these are dead end
cases, with few exceptions where ilegitimate children are ultimately recognized
in last wills and testaments by their parents.

Jaime Alvarado

It's cases like these that make genalogy interesting and sometimes frustrating. 
As of today I have found 12 children that I can attribute to Miguel de Anaya Villagran (my huerfano) and Angela Alcantara Navarrete.  The childrens' surnames  vary widely:  Anaya, Anaya Villagran, Anaya Alcantara, Villagran Alcantara, and Anaya Navarrete.  It's been my experience that the child's surname is rarely attached to the given name on the actual baptismal entries, therefore I'm assuming the surname variations are deliberate choices on the part of either the parents, the child, or the person transcribing the information from the original baptismal entry. 
With so many children I can only hope that at least one entry will contain paternal grandparents, even though entries from the early 1700's don't seem to have them.
Thanks so much for all of the group's input.  I find something is revealed and worthy of consideration each time.   Thanks again,  Alice Blake

--- On Thu, 6/2/11, mygenes2000@yahoo.com wrote:

From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, June 2, 2011, 4:58 PM

On my wife's side of the family I experiened some of these same issues but after a lot of work I was able to put the pieces together. This was a lomeli/de la cruz line from Jalos the children and parent used these two surnames at different times in their lives until the next generation just used one or the other.
R A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 07:38:02
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano

Alice just sharing one case.. the man was raised as an expuesto in de la Cueva
home and he took their surname and must have been treated as a son since their
children were padrinos and witnesses..  After he married in grew up, had
children all of a sudden Hurtado starts showing up as his surname then he goes
back and forth with both surnames as his children did, this is in Jerez
Zacatecas. I had had a hard time with their lineage and I'm sure he's not the
first to find out who his actual birth parents were, who married and had other
children after him..
not the answer you were looking for but just sharing.  I put them in  the
lineage of the home they were raised in with  a note saying they were expuesto.
Linda on her way to Canada

 

________________________________
From: Alice Blake
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wed, June 1, 2011 5:56:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano

I request input/thoughts from Nuestros Ranchos members, as this can't be an
unique situation within a group of over five hundred members researching
hundreds of years back in time.
  I'm interested in hearing from as many members as possible as to how
experienced genalogists within and without our group handle a similar
situation.  Modern adoptive parents consider their adoptees to be no
different from biological offspring. 

Therefore, what is the protocol?  Do genalogists today proceed up the adoptive
parents' family trees and consider it the adoptees' background? 

If adoptive parents were named as adoptive parents in old informacion
matrimonials, do you stop there, or continue with the adoptive parents' family
line as yours?
My thoughts are that long ago, if a couple adopted and considered the
child their own, they probably never told the child that he/she was adopted, and
they and we continue in ignorant bliss. 

I'm slowly resigning myself to the conclusion that this is a dead end.  It would
be extremely difficult concluding who Miguel Anaya Villagran's  parents were as
there were very many Anaya/Analla's in the area in the early 1700's, and more
children born to padres no conocidos than I would have thought for the time and
place. 

Thanks again for all who were kind and thoughtful enough to respond and I look
forward to further responses in order to learn from others' experience who are
willing to share their knowledge.   Alice Blake
 

--- On Wed, 6/1/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:

From: Jaime R. Alvarado
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 6:53 PM

Alice,
I've seen examples of certain priests to refer to 'huerfano' or 'huerfana',
instead of 'padres no conocidos', when when the respective groom or bride belong
to a well to do family. My interpretation is that it woud be a way of hidding
what the community at the time would perceive as somewhat obscure and perhaps
embaracing (ilegitimate), origin. It was kind of a no ask don't tell attitude,
that may legitimatize future generations. In my experience, these are dead end
cases, with few exceptions where ilegitimate children are ultimately recognized
in last wills and testaments by their parents.

Jaime Alvarado

Alice,

Don't discard the dispensas. Some of those children might have had to obtain
a dispensa and an investigation might have had to be made into their
ancestry. another thing you might want to keep in mind is who are the
witnesses to the marriages, padrinos, madrinas, etc. these might be
brothers, sisters, cousins, etc. Pay particular attention to the sure names
in their marriages or the marriages of their children there might be
indications as to who the parents/gparents were. Often brothers are
witnesses to other brothers and sisters marriages and christenings, etc. It
goes both ways, don't just look at your direct ancestors records he or she
might have additional information about them on a relatives record. If he is
a witness to a marriage you might find additional information as to the
relationship between the groom or bride and himself or herself.

Another avenue you might want to pursue is water rights often and the buying
and mortgaging of those rights. Very often it is indicated from whom they
got those rights from, (father, mother, grand father, etc.). As has been
indicated to you there is also Notary records for inheritances. Look into
anyone who is giving him something or his children something. Ask yourself
why and find the answer. Find out if any of the 12 children became clergy.
Often this was the case in large families (because there was not enough
money to go around or they wanted to maintain maintain their wealth by
giving lands to the church but placing it in the name of the son). Sometimes
clergy had to submit genealogies at the time they entered certain orders.

There is a lot of places to look. Don't give up hope, it is just a little
bit more difficult to find the answers. It's just a matter of how deep you
want to look. You might never find out who his parents were but then again
with a little bit of persevering you just might. Another thing you will have
to ask yourself is, " should I lay this line aside for a little bit and work
on something else for the time being that might be more productive". At some
point you will need to do the hard stuff just so that you can cross it off
of your list. Who knows someone else just might do it for you (not likely).
Good luck!!!

PS *George* R. *Ryskamp wrote a book on researching genealogy in Latin
America. It's about 800 pgs., good book. It goes into detail about the
records *available. The best way to know what records contain is through
hands on experience. F*orgot the name of the book, sorry! :) *

Saludos desde Lago Salado,
Eduardo H Seoane

Eduardo,
Great advice.  Since I last posted I was determined to find the baptismal entries of all 12 of Miguel Anaya Villagran and Angela Alcantara Navarette's children and as I feared, no grandparents are named on any.  I did notice that the surnames Anaya and Villagran appear VERY frequently in Huichapan, Hidalgo 1700's, but independantly of each other.  Then  I notice a Manuel Anaya Villagran and Antonia Lugarda Ruiz Hidalgo appear having children at the same time and pretty much with the same given names and padrinos.   I look up their informacional matrimonal and Manuel Anaya Villagran also identifies himself as "huerfano"!  They must be brothers and related to other Anaya's and Villagran's in Huichapan. 
Spanish is not my first language, but I do quite well until I get to long drawn documents.  Unfortunately for research, the Huichapan informacion matrimonials of 1718 and 1719 are very skimpy--less than a page, no padrinos, no testigos, no ages of the couple (unless I'm reading them incorrectly).
Finding a brother must be good news.  Should I arrive at any conclusions?  They both appeared to have remained and raised families in Huichapan.
I truly appreciate when group members bother to offer input.  It helps so much both for methodology and encouragement of spirit.  Thanks again,  Alice Blake

--- On Fri, 6/3/11, Eduardo Seoane wrote:

From: Eduardo Seoane
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 4:50 PM

Alice,

Don't discard the dispensas. Some of those children might have had to obtain
a dispensa and an investigation might have had to be made into their
ancestry. another thing you might want to keep in mind is who are the
witnesses to the marriages, padrinos, madrinas,  etc. these might be
brothers, sisters, cousins, etc. Pay particular attention to the sure names
in their marriages or the marriages of their children there might be
indications as to who the parents/gparents were. Often brothers are
witnesses to other brothers and sisters marriages and christenings, etc. It
goes both ways, don't just look at your direct ancestors records he or she
might have additional information about them on a relatives record. If he is
a witness to a marriage you might find additional information as to the
relationship between the groom or bride and himself or herself.

Another avenue you might want to pursue is water rights often and the buying
and mortgaging of those rights. Very often it is indicated from whom they
got those rights from, (father, mother, grand father, etc.). As has been
indicated to you there is also Notary records for inheritances. Look into
anyone who is giving him something or his children something. Ask yourself
why and find the answer. Find out if any of the 12 children became clergy.
Often this was the case in large families (because there was not enough
money to go around or they wanted to maintain maintain their wealth by
giving lands to the church but placing it in the name of the son). Sometimes
clergy had to submit genealogies at the time they entered certain orders.

There is a lot of places to look. Don't give up hope, it is just a little
bit more difficult to find the answers. It's just a matter of how deep you
want to look. You might never find out who his parents were but then again
with a little bit of persevering you just might. Another thing you will have
to ask yourself is, " should I lay this line aside for a little bit and work
on something else for the time being that might be more productive". At some
point you will need to do the hard stuff just so that you can cross it off
of your list. Who knows someone else just might do it for you (not likely).
Good luck!!!

PS *George* R. *Ryskamp wrote a book on researching genealogy in Latin
America. It's about 800 pgs., good book. It goes into detail about the
records *available. The best way to know what records contain is through
hands on experience. F*orgot the name of the book, sorry! :)  *

Saludos desde Lago Salado,
Eduardo H Seoane

Eduardo, thanks so much for the excellent points you make and the additional research suggestions.

I'm stuck with MELCHORA CASILLAS, who was "hija exposita en casa de ALONSO PEREZ FRANCO" and given the surname CASILLAS after Alonso's wife, JUANA CASILLAS.

I know several members here descend from Melchora and her husband MANUEL CORNEJO RIOJANO, and I'm wondering if any descendant has uncovered her biological parents.

Any clues? Ideas? Hunches? Suspicions?

I also descend from her. I have not been able to find her biological parents but suspect her father was possibly a brother of Juana.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: claudiacasillas@gmail.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 17:34:28
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Huerfano/Exposito - Melchora Casillas (Alonso
Perez Franco)

Eduardo, thanks so much for the excellent points you make and the additional research suggestions.

I'm stuck with MELCHORA CASILLAS, who was "hija exposita en casa de ALONSO PEREZ FRANCO" and given the surname CASILLAS after Alonso's wife, JUANA CASILLAS.

I know several members here descend from Melchora and her husband MANUEL CORNEJO RIOJANO, and I'm wondering if any descendant has uncovered her biological parents.

Any clues? Ideas? Hunches? Suspicions?

I had one experience where a father died and his widow sent her children to live with others not related as far as I can tell. I tracked them through census records, then found that later one young man started using his adoptive father's surname. Down through the generations, people thought he was a son of this man. Only when one of my cousins requested his original marriage certificate did he discover the son's real surname.

When people went to get married, they had to prove they had been baptized in the Catholic faith, so that is probably when the son had to reveal his real surname. The record states his real name and mentions he was an adoptee. So generations have gone by that never knew the real story. The descendants living now were surprised, but they continue to use the surname that the son adopted.

Other "sons" got around this by saying they did not know (maybe they never really knew) who their parents were, and then were probably cleared for the marriage as long as everything else was in order for the marriage to proceed.

If you find out that someone was adopted, I don't continue the adoptive line as theirs. It ends there. But I do follow up the adoptive parents lines, just so they the background of those who adopted them.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

------------------------------------------

> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 17:56:30 -0700
> From: alicebb@att.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano
>
> I request input/thoughts from Nuestros Ranchos members, as this can't be an unique situation within a group of over five hundred members researching hundreds of years back in time.
> I'm interested in hearing from as many members as possible as to how experienced genalogists within and without our group handle a similar situation. Modern adoptive parents consider their adoptees to be no different from biological offspring.
> Therefore, what is the protocol? Do genalogists today proceed up the adoptive parents' family trees and consider it the adoptees' background?
> If adoptive parents were named as adoptive parents in old informacion matrimonials, do you stop there, or continue with the adoptive parents' family line as yours?
> My thoughts are that long ago, if a couple adopted and considered the child their own, they probably never told the child that he/she was adopted, and they and we continue in ignorant bliss.
> I'm slowly resigning myself to the conclusion that this is a dead end. It would be extremely difficult concluding who Miguel Anaya Villagran's parents were as there were very many Anaya/Analla's in the area in the early 1700's, and more children born to padres no conocidos than I would have thought for the time and place.
> Thanks again for all who were kind and thoughtful enough to respond and I look forward to further responses in order to learn from others' experience who are willing to share their knowledge. Alice Blake
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 6/1/11, Jaime R. Alvarado wrote:
>
>
> From: Jaime R. Alvarado
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 6:53 PM
>
>
> Alice,
> I've seen examples of certain priests to refer to 'huerfano' or 'huerfana', instead of 'padres no conocidos', when when the respective groom or bride belong to a well to do family. My interpretation is that it woud be a way of hidding what the community at the time would perceive as somewhat obscure and perhaps embaracing (ilegitimate), origin. It was kind of a no ask don't tell attitude, that may legitimatize future generations. In my experience, these are dead end cases, with few exceptions where ilegitimate children are ultimately recognized in last wills and testaments by their parents.
>
> Jaime Alvarado

I found it strange that he be identified as a huerfano on his informacion matrimonial.  I've always found difunto after the dead parent's name or los dos difuntos for both.  I'd like input from others.  Has anyone come acroos this and how was it handled as far as researching.   Thanks again,  Alice Blake 

--- On Mon, 5/30/11, patty haro wrote:

From: patty haro
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, May 30, 2011, 8:34 PM

"huerfano" means that both parents are dead

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Group,
> I've come across something new to me.  I can't find my 7grgrandfather's,
> Miguel Anaya Villagran aka Villagran Anaya, baptismal/birth information, but
> on his 1719 informacion matrimonial to Angela Alcantara Navarrete, it says
> he's an orphan.  Does this mean that he was born to padres no conosidos?
> Then how did he get the compound surnames?  I've seen where parents have
> been named as adoptive parents on marriages, but not here.
> Their daughter, Pheliciana Ma Petra Anaya Villagran's baptismal entry
> doesn't name any grandparents.   How would one proceed with this line, or is
> it just a dead end?  Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks so much,  Alice Blake

I'm guessing from the lack of response that no one has ever come across "huerfano" on an informacion matrimonial and that my research on that line is probably at a dead end?  Thanks again,  Alice Blake 

--- On Tue, 5/31/11, Alice Blake wrote:

From: Alice Blake
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, May 31, 2011, 2:11 AM

I found it strange that he be identified as a huerfano on his informacion matrimonial.  I've always found difunto after the dead parent's name or los dos difuntos for both.  I'd like input from others.  Has anyone come acroos this and how was it handled as far as researching.   Thanks again,  Alice Blake 

--- On Mon, 5/30/11, patty haro wrote:

From: patty haro
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] huerfano
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, May 30, 2011, 8:34 PM

"huerfano" means that both parents are dead

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Group,
> I've come across something new to me.  I can't find my 7grgrandfather's,
> Miguel Anaya Villagran aka Villagran Anaya, baptismal/birth information, but
> on his 1719 informacion matrimonial to Angela Alcantara Navarrete, it says
> he's an orphan.  Does this mean that he was born to padres no conosidos?
> Then how did he get the compound surnames?  I've seen where parents have
> been named as adoptive parents on marriages, but not here.
> Their daughter, Pheliciana Ma Petra Anaya Villagran's baptismal entry
> doesn't name any grandparents.   How would one proceed with this line, or is
> it just a dead end?  Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks so much,  Alice Blake

"huerfano" means that both parents are dead

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Group,
> I've come across something new to me. I can't find my 7grgrandfather's,
> Miguel Anaya Villagran aka Villagran Anaya, baptismal/birth information, but
> on his 1719 informacion matrimonial to Angela Alcantara Navarrete, it says
> he's an orphan. Does this mean that he was born to padres no conosidos?
> Then how did he get the compound surnames? I've seen where parents have
> been named as adoptive parents on marriages, but not here.
> Their daughter, Pheliciana Ma Petra Anaya Villagran's baptismal entry
> doesn't name any grandparents. How would one proceed with this line, or is
> it just a dead end? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks so much, Alice Blake

Genealogy Research