En La Parroquia del Sagrario á treinta de Setiembre de mil ochocientos ochocenta y nueve, el Pbro. D. Esteban Alvares, de licentia Parochi, Bautismo solemente á una nina nacida en Zacatecas el treinta de Agosto á las Cuatro de la manana; hija legitima de Jose Ynes Rodriguez y de Geronima Ramirez y á quien puso por nombre Rosa. Abuelos Patemos Juan y Francisca Alva. Abuelos Matemos Ygnacio y Teofila Espinosa P. Horberto Guzman y Serapia del mismo apellida.
I may have some words spelled miscorrectly. Is it saying that Horberto Guzman and Serapia have same surnames or is it Rodriguez and why does it mention them after Teofila P. Espinosa? Thank you for your help. Monica
Reasonable doubts
I agree, chances of having another Gerónima, daughter of Ygnacio and Teófila are slim. The only thing that doesn't is the surname of the mother, Espino VS Espinosa, although being the maternal surname, maybe they din't use it much and got confused over the years. I think each researcher has to decide how much information is good enough for them in order to make a connection. Is 50% confidence good enough? 75%? 95%?
I had a case similar to yours, although the surname of the mother was completely different in the marriage and baptism records of her three children. However, since the names and ages of all the children matched in both kinds of records, as well as their place of birth, I assumed for some reason they didn't really know their mother's surname.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
San Gerónimo
The matching birthday date would be a great clue to pinpoint that you found someone's birth or baptism certificate, however in this case the feast of San Geronimo (Saint Jerome) falls on September 30th, so many children born or baptized on or around that day may have been named Geronimo or Geronima.
Also, when calculating birth years from age, one has to consider whether the person already had a birthday or not that year. In your case the documents are from October and the birthday was on September, so you can do a simple subtraction of year minus age.
Although the record says they were Evangelicos, if at least one of them was Catholic they may have had a Catholic wedding as well, so you may see if there is any additional information in those records (they did baptize Rosa as Catholic, right?).
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Rosa Baptized Catholic
Yes, her daughter Rosa was baptized catholic. I started my search first in Sargario Parish where Rosa was born but have not found anything.
In each of the records that I find for my gg Geronima she is a different age:
Marriage on 9 Ocotober 1888 age 21 Zacatecas, Zacatecas
1930 Texas census 12 April age 65
1940 Texas census 11 April age 69
I keep in mind that she was born on September 30th. I am positive that all three records are my GG records. Would she have possibly gone back to her home town to marry ? I know she was a devoted Catholic because I was told she was very upset when my Grandfather converted to Free Masonary and My Great Aunt converted to Protestant religions.You said it was common to name the child Geronima but would it also be a common coincidence that Geromima Ramirez Espino parents name would be the same, being Ygnacio and Maria Teofila ? They are the only two I find living and married together in San Luis Potosi where My GG Geronima Ramirez was born. I have yet to find my GG father's Jose Ynez's birth record either. I was told he died very young. Rosa was born 18889, Abraham 1902 and Mercedes 1910. So I know he was alive until 1909? Thanks again so much. I love this web site.
Monica Torres-Rice
Is there a site similar to Nuestros Rancho for San Luis Potosi ?
My Great Grandfather was born and Married in Zactecas , Zacatecas. I am looking to verify if Maria Geronima Espino from San Luis Potosi is the same as Geronima Ramirez who married in Zacatecas, Zacatecas. I know from thier marriage record in 1888 it names My GG Geronima's parents as Ygnacio Ramires and Maria Teofila Espinosa. The name Ygancio Ramires matches but his wife's name is Maria Teofila Espino. I was told by family that Teofila was from Spain but I have not verified that as of yet. My gg Geronima used the birthdate 30 Sept 1864 but after finding marriage doc it said she was age 21 on would place her birth about 1867. Maria Geronima's baptism doc says she is 8 days old and baptism took place on 7 October 1866 which would make her birthdate 30 September 1866 ? Any insight would help...Monica Torres-Rice
Marriage Reference : Image pages 304 and 323; reference no 847, 895, & 896
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22164-19088-79?cc=1916240…
Could someone help translate
Hi Monica,
I've seen birth certificates of siblings where they give the names and ages of parents and names of grandparents. After doing the math, sometimes the birth year of a parent is off by a few years form record to record. So, unless you find the birth or baptism certificate of a person, the age you calculate based on the information they give is many times approximate. If you go back a few centuries you will start seeing documents where they say that the person has "more or less" so many years of age.
I have a branch of Evangélicos in my family. They were not Catholic, however, many of them were baptized as Catholics, so I guess they converted later in life.
As for Jose Ynez Rodriguez, if he was baptized in another town it may be hard to find him. Keep looking in familysearch every now and then. Maybe one of these days someone will index a record of him and put the information online.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Could someone help translate
Hi Monica,
I think in most cases newborns were baptized in the local parish, but sometimes they would take the baby to another town in order to be baptized. That was the case with my parents, they took them to the town where their godparents lived. In any case, many times they mention the place where the baby was born. The age people declare in their marriage records may be off by plus or minus five years or so. They didn't use to keep great track of their age back in the day.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Age description
Hi Victoriano, I did find in my GGParents marriage record that they were said to be 22 and 21 of age. We're they pretty accurate about birthdays if they are documented? And i'm still wondering if she would have a church document ? It reads as a civil register and underneath their names is the word "Evangelico" does this mean they were not Catholic ? My GG Mother always used the year 1864 but after finding her marriage record she would be born 1867. My GG mother's death cert said she was 95 but i'm not sure if my grandfather just told them that's how old she was when she passed. I was told that my GG father Jose Ynez Rodriguez died at an early age but I have been unable to locate any other documents birth or death. The marriage certificate says he was born in Zacatecas, Zacatecas. Is there another town I should be looking for those documents in ? Thank you, Monica Torres-Rice
Could someone help translate
This is how one may interpret the information:
Date: September 30, 1889
Priest: Esteban Alvares
Baptized girl: Rosa (born in Zacatecas on August 30, at 4:00 AM)
Parents: Jose Ynez Rodriguez & Geronima Ramirez
Paternal grandparents: Juan Rodriguez & Francisca Alva
Maternal grandparents; Ygnacio Ramirez & Teofila Espinosa
Godparents (Padrinos, P.): Norberto Guzman & Serapia Guzman.
It does say that Horberto (¿Norberto?) and Serapia have the same surname (Guzman) and they are abbreviating the names of the grandfathers by not writing down their surnames (since they already mentioned them when naming the parents).
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
P.
Thank you for helping me clear up my understanding. I thought the P. was Teofila Espinosa's middle initial. Do you know if people would normally baptize children in nearby Parishes of where they lived or would they travel some distance. I am trying to locate birth records for Jose Ynez Rodriguez. On his marriage certificate it says he was born in Zactecas, Zacatecas about 1866. But I find no birth record for him in that year in the City of Zacatecas. Thank you, again, Monica Torres-Rice