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Por Ruben Hdez |

Hello to each and everyone,

I hope some very savvy members can help me in finding out who the mother of Pedro Velasco Navarrete married to Mariana de Aceves was.

The following is a very long Dispensa stating Andrea Rodríguez married to Juan de Aceves -
Pretenso's parents, Pretenso also named Juan de Aceves - was the sister of Cristóbal Becerra and also the sister of this Pedro Velasco Navarrete:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9Y-SH

The file is full of testimonies confirming these relationships.

There is a Dispensa stating Pedro Velasco and Mencia de Velasco were siblings:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XZ9Y-XR

So Pedro and Mencia were father-only siblings and their father was also named Pedro Velasco (In the long Dispensa Pedro is named "El Mozo", something similar to "Junior").

Therefore Andrea Rodríguez and Pedro Velasco were mother-only sibling.

Who is that woman who probably married both, Pedro Velasco (The father of Pedro and Mencia) and also married the father of Andrea Rodríguez and Cristóbal Becerra?

Any help is highly appreciate.

Rubén

Ruben--

Pedro de Velasco Navarrete is a mistake, I am not sure where this started, but it has been passed around on multiple genealogy websites, he is not Navarrete. He was actually known and signed as Don Pedro Ruiz de Velasco y Haro. He was married to Da. Ana Núñez Bohórquez, the daughter of D. Juan Núñez Bohórquez, this last link was given to me from D. Guillermo Tovar de Teresa before his passing.

The couple is found in Mexico City in 1618 where they baptized their son Pedro on 20 Nov 1618 in the Asunción parish of Mexico City. We are not sure exactly when the couple moved from Mexico City to Ayo el Chico, today Ayotlán, but I would imagine it took place sometime in the 1620s. The first hard date in the Obispado de Michoacán, we have sadly is not until 23 Feb 1656. This is the marriage that took place between Da. María Ruiz de Haro (daughter of Pedro and Ana) and D. Cristóbal Hernández Gamiño y Espejo in Iraputo, Guanajuato.

The first dispensa is between Juan de Aceves y Becerra and Isabel Velázquez, widow of Francisco de Alvarado, but it is a dispensa for fourth degree of affinity not consanguinity, meaning Juan de Aceves y Becerra and Francisco de Alvarado were third cousins.

Hernández de Arellano=Hurtado de Mendoza connection: Toribio and Isabel are not mentioned, but the earliest on this tree are mentioned in the document as first cousins "primos hermanos" and "hijos de dos hermanas." We know from several other records that these two were both grandchildren of Toribio and Isabel:

Toribio Hernández de Arellano and Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza
Marta Sánchez de Mendoza (sisters) Ana Sánchez de Mendoza
Francisco Sánchez de Lara (1st cousins) Juan de Becerra "el mozo"
José de Alvarado (his mother was María de Alvarado) (2nd cousins) Andrea Rodríguez Becerra
Francisco de Alvarado (3rd cousins) Juan de Aceves
m. Isabel Velázquez (married twice) m. Isabel Velázquez

I do not see how Andrea Rodríguez Becerra would be related to Pedro de Velasco, they are not related.

The second dispensa does state that Pedro "el mozo" and Mencía Ruiz de Velasco were siblings and includes two relationships of consanguinity (both in the fourth degree, or third cousins, which follows:

Aceves-Hermosillo connection

Juan de Aceves m. Beatriz Muñoz de Hermosillo
Juan de Aceves (siblings) Mariana de Aceves
Sebastián de Aceves (1st cousins) Violanta Ruiz de Velasco
Miguel de Aceves (2nd cousins) Pedro Hernández Gamiño
Gertrudis de Aceves (pretensa) (3rd cousins) Francisco Hernández Gamiño (pretenso)

Hernández Gamiño connection

Blas Gómez de Espejo (siblings) Diego Gómez de Espejo
Pedro Hernández Gamiño (1st cousins) Lugarda Gómez de Espejo
Pedro Hernández Gamiño (2nd cousins) Miguel de Aceves
Francisco Hernández Gamiño (pretenso) (3rd cousins) Gertrudis de Aceves (pretensa)

Regards,

Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino

Mr. Daniel

Many thanks for your quick and detailed replay.

The Pedro I'm talking about might be the one christened in Mexico City on 20 Nov 1618.

This Pedro signed as po belasco nabarrete and he was 56 y/o on 1676. His signature is in the first Dispensa near the top of the left hand side page of the following image (385 of 617):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9Y-43

This Dispensa also holds the whole file of (The Pretensa) Isabel Velázquez's complaint on the kiddnaping of Juan de Aceves (The Pretenso) by his uncle Pedro Velasco, Cristóbal Becerra (Also Pretenso's maternal uncle), Juan de Aceves (Pretenso's brother) and Juan González so they didn't get married. This complaint starts on image 373 of 617:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9T-D8

The consanguinity relationship between Francisco de Alvarado and Juan de Aceves is detailed on the image 370 of 617. The family tree is half way down of the right hand side page:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9T-TK

But this relationship is irrelevant to determine the relationship between Pedro Velasco and Andrea Rodríguez.

The relationship between Pedro Velasco and Andrea Rodríguez is on several testimonies:

* Testimony of the same Pedro Velasco (Confession). Near the bottom of the left hand side page of image 384 of 617:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9T-3C

"... Dijo que ese día habiendo recibido un recado de Andrea rodríguez su hermana y madre de Juan de Aceves (Pretenso), el cual le trajo José de Aceves su hijo (Andrea's son) diciendole que el dicho Juan de Aceves andaba huido de su casa ..."

At the bottom of the same page:

"... fué este confesante, y en su compañía Cristóbal Becerra hermano de dicha Andrea Rodríguez, y José de Aceves, y hallando en dicho puesto de Marichi al dicho Juan de Aceves, le dijo que porque ..."

* Testimony of Andrea Rodríguez. Near the top of the left hand side page of image 388 of 617:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9T-YW

"... dijo que lo que pasa es que habiendosele huido de su casa el dicho Juan de Aceves su hijo, temiéndose de que no se juntase con malas compañias y diese mala nota de su persona le envió a decir a Pedro Velasco su hermano que sabía que estaba el dicho Juan de Aceves en un puesto que llaman Marichi ..."

So Andrea Rodríguez and Cristóbal Becerra (By the way, Cristóbal was Pedro's son in law. He was the husband of Cornelia de Velasco, Pedro's daughter) were father-only siblings and Andrea Rodríguez and Pedro Velasco were mother-only siblings.

Was Andrea Rodríguez also the daughter of Ana Núñez Bohórquez, mother of Pedro Velasco?

Again, many thanks for your attention.

Rubén,

Thanks for clarifying, it does appear Pedro used also Pedro de Velasco Navarrete and is the same one baptized 20 Nov 1618 in Mexico City. I am not sure where the Navarrete comes from, but we do not have much information beyond his parents Pedro Ruiz de Velasco y Haro and Ana Núñez Bohórquez and his maternal grandfather Juan Núñez Bohórquez. It is possible Navarrete came from an ancestor or possibly a mayorazgo that he may have inherited.

The document also does state Andrea and Pedro as siblings in each respective testimony. There have been known to be mistakes in dispensas as people's memories fail at times, but this one definitely needs further research. What causes more confusion is that from the other dispensa you included in your post we know that Andrea Rodríguez Becerra was a daughter of Juan Becerra, son of Juan Becerra and Ana Sánchez de Mendoza. Ana is the daughter of Toribio and Isabel. Juan de Becerra was married to Catalina Galindo (these were Cristóbal Becerra's parents) but that does not necessarily mean that Catalina is the mother of Ana Rodríguez Becerra. Unless anyone has a record to prove this link? My other question is why does Andrea use Rodriguez?

Daniel MdTC

Ruben
I haven´t been able yet to read the dispensa but I think we are watching one of those cases where the use of some words has changed with time and that leads to some confussion.
I undesrtand that Pedro Velasco Navarrete (II) states that Andrea Rodríguez is his sister, but I´m sure that what he really meant was : SISTER IN LAW.

The information in my notes has the following:

Pedro Ruíz Velasco Navarrete (I) married to Ana Núñez Bohorquez around 1616 was the father of :

Juan Bacilio Ruíz de Velasco ca 1630
Pedro Ruíz de Velasco Navarrete (II) b1618 who married first to Luisa de Alarcón ca 1640 and they had :
Juan Velasco Alarcon b26-jun-1644, Guad
Nicolasa n19-nov-1645 Guad
Mencía de Velasco nc1646 +c1666 Diego Gómez de Espejo Hernández Gamiño
This last couple were the parents of
Lugarda Gómez de Espejo bc1669 married 6-V-1689 Sebastián Aceves bc1660 .

This last couple were the parents of :
Miguel b15-oct-1690 Tepa Im58: hl de Sebastián y Lugarda vecinos del Ojo de Agua de San Pedro de Esta Juris …habiendole
echado el agua Don Pedro Aceves y por no estar presente le baptice…PP Pedro de Estrada Bocanegra y Da Andrea Rodríguez su
mujer +married ca1720 Mariana Flores , parents of
Gertrudis de Aceves Flores bc1735 married 6-may-1755 con disp Fco Hernández

Pedro Ruíz Velasco Navarrete (II) had a second wedding ca1649 with Mariana de Aceves de Hermosillo b1628 en septiembre de 1650 obtienen en merced de cabildo el Rancho San José en León,Gto. de 3 caballerías

Mariana Aceves Hermosillo was the sister of
Juan de Aceves Hermosillo bc1628,d6-ago-1661 married ca1651 María Andrea Rodríguez Becerra Hurtado de Mendoza Galindo nc1630

An this is why Pedro Ruíz Velasco (II) calls Andrea Todríguez "his sister"

Mr. Peredo

Thank you for taking part in this topic.

The information you are providing is very interesting.

It seems Andrea Rodríguez was not Pedro Velasco's sister in law. Andrea Rodríguez was the wife of Juan de Aceves and Juan de Aceves was Pedro Velasco's brother in Law. So Andrea was the wife of Pedro's brother in law.

On the other hand, it was very usual that two siblings married two other siblings: Mariana de Aceves and Juan de Aceves married to Pedro Velasco and Andrea Rodríguez.

There also is the testimony of Basilio Velasco using the term "cuñado" near the bottom of the page on the right hand side of the image 376 of 617:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9R-2C

"... cuyo dueño es este testigo a quien se lo dió Cristóbal Becerra su cuñado ..."

Rubén

I just want to comment on what you said regarding it being “unusual that two siblings married two other siblings”

This was actually more common than one might think, especially within the espanoles that did not want to marry beneath them.

-Angelina-
> On Aug 24, 2017, at 10:15 AM, baratero69@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Mr. Peredo Thank you for taking part in this topic. The information you are
> providing is very interesting. It seems Andrea Rodríguez was not Pedro
> Velasco's sister in law. Andrea Rodríguez was the wife of Juan de Aceves and
> Juan de Aceves was Pedro Velasco's brother in Law. So Andrea was the wife of
> Pedro's brother in law. On the other hand, it was very usual that two
> siblings married two other siblings: Mariana de Aceves and Juan de Aceves
> married to Pedro Velasco and Andrea Rodríguez. There also is the testimony
> of Basilio Velasco using the term "cuñado" near the bottom of the page on
> the right hand side of the image 376 of 617:
> https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K9R-2C "... cuyo dueño es
> este testigo a quien se lo dió Cristóbal Becerra su cuñado ..." Rubén
>

I'm not saying that there's a posibility that Andrea Rodríguez is called "sister" of Pedro Velasco Navarrete II because she was the sister in law of Pedro's second wife, THAT IS SIMPLY A FACT.
One way to conclude this easily is because we know that the Cristóbal Becerra that was imprisoned with Pedro Velasco Navarrete II was married precisely with Cornelia, daughter of Pedro.
We also know that this Cristóbal was the brother of Andrea Rodríguez Becerra, so THERE'S NO WAY that Cristóbal could be brother of his own FATHER IN LAW, he could by NO MEANS marry Cornelia Velasco if he was brother of Andrea and she sister of Pedro.
If Juan de Aceves (the husband of Andrea) were alive at the time of the dispensa, Pedro would call him rightfully "BROTHER", then why wouldn't he call "SISTER" Andrea?

Mr. Peredo

I asked myself about the marriage of Cristóbal Becerra and Cornelia.

If Cristóbal Becerra and Andrea Rodríguez were father-only siblings and Pedro Velasco and Andrea Rodríguez were mother-only siblings there was no consanguinity relationship between Pedro and Cristóbal.

Rubén

Rubén I noticed that you proposed the posibility of Pedro being half-brother of Andrea, and Andrea being half-sister of Cristóbal Becerra, and yes, in that case Cristóbal could marry a daughter of Pedro.

But the parents of Pedro and the parents of Andrea and Cristóbal have been reported here several years ago, the following are excerpts of an old post of our cousin El Capitán Paco:

Cristóbal Becerra Nació: 1647 en Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México Residencia: Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México... Padre: Juan Becerra Hurtado de Mendoza Madre: Catalina Galindo
.. +Cornelia Ruiz de Velasco Nació: ca. 1655 en Tepatitlán, Jalisco, México Residencia: Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México Se casaron: ca. 1674 en Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, México Falleció: Se desconoce Padre: Pedro Velasco Navarrete Madre: Mariana de Aceves...

Pedro Velasco Navarrete Nota: Don Pedro Velasco Navarrete (Ruiz de Velasco), español; originario de la Ciudad de Méjico, y vecino de Ayo y Tepa; h.l. de D. Pedro Ruiz de Haro y Velasco y de D. Anna Núñez Bojórquez; se casó con Mariana de Aceves, hacia 1650; falleció antes de 1690. Nació: 20 Noviembre 1618 en Ciudad de México, México

A little more information to complete the past argumentation:

Ana Isabel Sánchez de Mendoza bc1565 +21-ene-1584 Lagos, Juan Becerra, they were the parents of :

Leonor Becerra b1576 Lagos +1596 Ags, Juan López de Elizalde Aberruza b1571
Tolosa, Guipúzcoa
Juan Becerra b1586 Jalos +1629 Jalos, Catalina Rodríguez Galindo b1607 Jalos,
they were the parents of :
María 1630 +c1650 Sebastián de Aceves Gutiérrez de Hermosillo n1626 Jalos
Cristóbal Becerra n1647 +ca 1672 Cornelia Ruíz de Velasco
María Andrea Rodríguez Becerra Hurtado de Mendoza Galindo n1634 Tepa (dijo
tener 35 años en 1676 y al parecer tenía 42)+ca1654 Juan de Aceves Hermosillo
n1628 Jalos,m6-ago-1661

Here we see that María and María Andrea Rodríguez Becerra married two brothers : Sebastián and Juan de Aceves Hermosillo, and they were both brothers in law of Pedro Velasco Navarrete II

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