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Por inoeys |

Hey everyone.

I am currently working on a line which takes me to Felipe Quezada and Maria de la Torre Valdez by way of their Gertrudis Quezada (who married Antonio Enriquez) and their grandson Florencio Enriquez (who married Maria de Jesus Bañuelos).

Felipe and Maria lived and died in Colotlán, Jalisco in the 1730s.

On one hand, I can't manage to find anything about Felipe's parents and am of course wondering if anyone has managed to break that wall yet.

On the other I have found trees which list Maria de la Torre's parents as Juan de la Torre (son of Juan del Campo de la Torre and Angela Velasco de Mojica/Mujica), but no documents to confirm such a connection. Would anybody be able to point me in the right direction?

Hey dear Katy,
I’m sorry about the super late reply and thank you so much for sharing all this material and all the work.
Rosalinda and I are still busy looking through each and every one of the dispensas that could help us figure out what is up with Juan and Maria (and) Clara (and Juan). We promise to soon share our conclusions (or atraer more solid suspicions).

Hey cousins! Rosalinda, Erlinda, Katy, Sandra, Joseph...

I decided to open another thread even though it's related to this one because it's more about the larger de la Torre family (the Juan de la Torre and Angela de Velasco trunks, to be more precise) rather the more specific Quezada-de la Torre one. Letting you know here just in case you only see this thread.

Hey cousins Rosalinda, Erlinda, Katy, Sandra, Joseph and all the Quesada/Quezada descendants around here.

Wondering if any of you watched the talk that Nefi Arenas gave about Doña Marina/Malintzin on Facebook in which he makes a link between the Quesadas/Quezadas in Nueva Galicia and beyond.

https://fb.watch/v/UH9eLO3O/

Now a request:

I have the image of the document which records the death/burial of Gertrudis Quezada (daughter of Felipe Quezada and María de la Torre, and wife of Antonio Enríquez de Ulloa). Problem is I can't find the link to it anywhere: not on Family Search, not on Ancestry, not on WikiTree... I cannot for the life of my remember where I got it from. Can anybody help?

Thanks in advance!

UPDATE: found it on Ancestry https://www.ancestry.mx/imageviewer/collections/60017/images/004722128_…
I will keep keep looking for it on FamilySearch, but if anybody has it, I'll be very thankful.

UPDATE 2: a couple of new friends with infinitely more experience and skills was kind enough to share the link with me so I'm posting it as well (hey Julio and Rosalinda):

"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-FQSM-K4?cc=1874591&wc=3JH3… : 28 June 2014), Colotlán > San Luis Obispo > Entierros 1801-1832 > image 37 of 643; parroquias Católicas (Catholic Church parishes), Jalisco.

Thank you. I was very excited to find this post today. I believe Juan de la Torre and Maria Clara Chavez y Banuelos may be my 7th great grandparents. I have been researching them as possible parents of Agustin de la Torre (married to Catharina Gonzales). This gives me more to look at.
Sandra

Hey Sandra.
There is a Tlaltenango document from 1723 which confirms that Agustín de la Torre was the son of Capitan Juan de la Torre and Doña Clara de Chavez. It also mentions Catarina Gonzalez and her parents Juan González and Maria Carrillo. Have you seen it? I don't have the link to FamilySearch readily available, but I do have the jpg that Joseph de Leon (author of the post previous to yours) shared on Ancestry.

here's the link to agustin's marriage info.
"México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15237-5908-37?cc=1804458 : 21 May 2014), Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román > Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román > Información matrimonial 1723-1734 > image 6 of 655; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas). on another note: i did get a y-37 for Miguel Quezada and his haplogroup seems to be a match to the los altos quezadas who tested on ftdna.

here's a potential birth record for Felipe, but i can't say with even 99% certainty that it is indeed his(i only consider this record a posible one is because there's a possbility felipe was born in los altos region since of las bocas):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRRH-KH3

Thank you, Katy, for both links. (And it's so great you got the Quesada paternal haplogroup.)

I transcribe the record of Felipe's possible baptismal record (image #512 of 523):

"En la Labor de Santa Lugarda(?) en cuatro dias del mes de marzo de mil seiscientos y sesenta y un años, Baptisé, Chatequisé y puse oleos y Chrisma a Felipe, español, hijo legítimo de Christoval de Quesada y de Ysabel de Alvarado, asistentes en la Labor de Miguel Sánchez. Fueron sus padrinos Diego Coronel y Catalina del Ang(el?) y para que conste lo firmé --"

(post edited because my autocorrect had changed Katy to Kathy)

I just wanted to pop in here and say that I descend from Felipe and Maria, along with Maria Gertrudis, their daughter, and Felipe and Maria's son Manuel.

I've searched for Felipe's parents for many years, with no success. It's very likely that he came from somewhere else (maybe another part of Zacatecas or Aguascalientes, where there are other Quezadas), but without a marriage record for Felipe and Maria, we may be out of luck. There is always a chance that there is a record out there with more information, perhaps unindexed.

Katy and Erlinda are my cousins; my DNA is on Ancestry and FTDNA, but I use initials-- JJ for FTDNA and R Ruiz for Ancestry. If you'd like, we can exchange info to see how close our cousinship is. I always like to add a new cousin to the tree!

Rosalinda

Hey Rosalinda! Yes, let's definitely exchange info. I also tested with Ancestry and FTDNA (mtDNA), but I also uploaded my data to GEDmatch, MyHeritage, LivingDNA... On Ancestry my username is the same as my handle here.

I just looked for you on my matches list, but I don't think I see you. Perhaps I match somebody else in your family? MQ and I, for example, share 60cM on FTDNA (it's probably like half of that because they are including under 5cM fragments in the total number which are probably IBC instead of IBD)...

I also descend from Gertrudis but via her son Florencio Enriquez who married Maria de Jesús Bañuelos de la Torre (daughter of Jacinto Dionisio Bañuelos Muñoz and Bartola Cipriana de la Torre y Haro).

Too bad about the lack of paper trail on Felipe's side. So many kids and still not one mention of the paternal grandparents. Lazy scribes they got...Hopefully there's a dispensa out there somewhere yet to be found.

Fantastic, thank you so much! Looking forward to help you break a wall sometime, somewhere.

(I wasn't aware of the existence of Orta, but I'm adding all the information on this dispensa to my tree so I can better understand how the braid is further braided and figure out where else the paper trail connects him to Maria de la Torre, wife of Felipe Quezada.)

(Btw, Katy, I was looking around your entries on wikitree, and the name Miguel Quezada keeps popping up. I match someone with his name on GEDmatch, as well as a "MQ" and a "JQ" on Ancestry whose kits are managed by someone with your last name, so I guess he is/they are your family.)

I just read the entire dispensa of Orta and Barragán. Mexican telenovelas got nothing on this bunch. Orta had to testify not only on his familial links to his bride but to his two previous wives and how the women were also related to each other!

Now I am also wondering also about two of the witnesses on the dispensa: Casimiro Olague de Etulain and Roque Jacinto de la Torre.

I've seen Casimiro listed in some trees as the husband of Rosa de la Torre y de la Torre, one of the sisters of Roque Jacinto de la Torre Valdez (the second witness in the dispensa).

Roque Jacinto and Rosa I have in my notes as children of Roque de la Torre y Valdez Haro and Juana de la Torre. (Roque Sr. I understand was the co-founder of Juanchorrey, and son of Alferez Diego de la Torre y Valdez Gamboa and Ana Francisca de Haro. On the other hand, Juana de la Torre I got down as daughter of Manuel de la Torre y Renteria and Josefa Gonzalez de Haro).

So, has anybody found anything about Casimiro (and Rosa)? In the jerezzacatecas blog, Rosa is listed as the mother of Isabel de la Torre who married Juan (de Dios Avila?) Carlos --which btw, is another bit of a confusing mess-- but there's no mention of Casimiro and I also haven't been able to locate any documents either way. Hope somebody around here can clarify.

Now on to looking for the other dispensas that Erlinda quoted from. Sunday entertainment!

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this is what I have:
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2nd cousin 10x removed of Chet Castanon
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baptism 24 March 1694 in Jerez, Zac
Casimirio Espanol no dob or city
parents: Joxxe de Olague and Antonia de Avila
godparents: Dona Juana de Gamvoa
source: 439844 film
page 152 Family search online
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witness on marriage dispensation 1754 in Jerez, Zac
Don Casimiro Olague de Etulain Espanol from hacienda de Guejote age 56
page 124 Familysearch online
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Don Casimiro Olague de Etulain born abt 1698 native of Jerez, Zac
was Alcalde ordinario of Jerez, Zac in 1762
and was a witness at the marriage information for Manuel de Avila and Casimira Rosalia Llanos y Valdes
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for their children I have:
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marriage dispensation 4th degree between wives
Trunk Unknown... (Rosa de la Torre)
Felipa de la Torre....Ysabel de la Torre.. 1st degree
Josefa Camacho........Juana Carlos...2nd degree
Antonia Herrera.......Claudia Correa... 3rd degree
Calletana Lopez.......Ma. San Marcos Carlos
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marriage dispensation 4th degree
Trunk..Dona Rosa de la Torre
Dona Ysabel de la Torre.....Felipa de Olague.. half sister
Dona Juana Carlos...........Ma. Carmen Camacho..2nd
Dona Ma. Romana Correa......Ma. Josefa Orosco...3rd degree
Don Juan Nepomuceno Nava....Ma. Refugio Alvarez
marriage dispensation granted 15 April 1818 in Jerez, Zac
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marriage 21 June 1716 in Jerez, Zac
Georgue de Olague Espanol
widower of Dona Antonia de Avila
with Dona Francisca Luariana/Luciana? Pacheco de Salas
parents: Juan Pacheco de Quero deceased and Maria Fernandes de Salas all Criollos (natives) of district of Jerez
all criollos of district of Jerez
source: 440059 film
page 67 Family search online
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page 209 Family search online
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Don George de Olague Atulain was owner of hacienda de Huejote (Quexote)
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Don George de Olague Atulain was owner of la Canada, Jerez, Zac
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child of George:

marriage 23 April 1713 in Jerez, Zac
Francisco de Avila Espanol
parents: Juan de Avila Caldera and Dona Antonia de la Torre
with Sebastiana de Olague
widow of Nicolas Dena
witness: el Capitan George de Olague, Miguel Alvares de Quinones, Juan Medrano and many others
marriage dispensation 3rd degree consanguinidad
source: 0440059 Jerez, Zac marriage
page 10 Family search online
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marriage dispensation requested Febrero 13 de 1713 in Xerez, Zac
Dispensa de tercero con cuarto grado de consanguinidad -
Francisco Dávila Caldera, de 25 años de edad, hijo legítimo del
Cap. Juan Dávila Caldera y de Doña Antonia de la Torre, españoles, vecinos y originarios de este feligresía de la Villa de Xerez;
with: Sebastiana de Olague. española mayor de 20 años de edad, hija natural de Jorge de Olague. y viuda de Nicolás Dena. Declaración del Cap. Don Miguel Alvarez de Quiñones, de 48 años de
edad:
Juan de la Torre y Diego de la Torre, fueron hermanos, y Juan tuvo por hija a Doña Juana de Gamboa, y éste a Jorge de Olague, y Jorge a Sebastiana de Olague, pretensa, y Diego de la Torre, tuvo por hija a Doña Antonia de la Torre, madre del pretenso.
Se otorgó la dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara. en 25 de marzo de 1713. 10 fojas.
source: sagrada mitra record # 496 - 167983 film
page 92 Familysearch online program
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marriage dispensation 3rd degree in 4th degree
Trunk.. Juan de la Torre and Juana Gamboa Villalobos
Juan de la Torre... ........Diego de la Torre..1st degree
Juana d. l. Torre Gamboa....Antonia de la Torre2nd degree
Jorge Olague................Francisco Davila Caldera.3rd degree
Sebastiana Olague ..........4th degree
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baptism 12 Oct 1699 in Jerez, Zac
Miguel Espanol no dob or city
parents: Xorge de Olague and Antonia de Abila
godparents: Juan de Olague and Ysabel de Luna
source: 439844 film
page 232 Family search online
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marriage 10 Sept 1721 in Jerez, Zac
Miguel de Olague Espanol from Jerez
parents: el Capitan Don George de Olague and Dona Antonia de Avila
with Dona Maria Hipolita Garcia de la Cadena Espanola from the district of Jerez
parents: Don Andres Garcia de la Cadena and Dona Maria del Rio y Losa
source: 440059 film
page 166 Family search online
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appeared as witness in the dispensation of Manuel de Avila and Rosalia Valdes in 1762
Don Miguel Olague de Etulain age 62 from Jerez
Alcalde originario que asido en ella en segundo y primero voto
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marriage dispensation 3rd degree igual
Trunk....Miguel de Olague and Juana de la Torre
Leonor de Olague.... ......Agueda de Olague.. siblings 1st degree
Angela Ortiz...............Francisco Chavez Banuelos..2nd
Christoval Villavicencio...Gertrudis Chavez Banuelos.. 3rd
source: sagrada mitra 167989
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I have George Olague Etulain and Juana Cid Caldera as parents of Miguel but did not put the link in the record..
I also have Miguel Olague and Francisca Doria (Garay) as parents of George but again no verification as to how I got that information

JQ is my maternal grandpa(he shows up as Jose Manuel Quesada on gedmatch), and mq is said grandpa's uncle miguel(under the name miguel Quezada on gedmatch).I share an ancestry account with my dad Gene.
i descend from 3 of felipe and maria's children(thru my maternal grandpa): Manuel, gertrudis, and diego. I should also add that juan de la torre and maria clara chavez y banuelos are second cousins

Wow, that's a whole lot of Quezada/Quesada, Katy. As far as I know, Gertrudis is the only kid of Felipe and Maria that I descend from, so it's helpful to locate the specific chromosomal fragments I share with your grandpa and granduncle because those might be what we inherited specifically from either Gertrudis or Felipe: I have a 7cM triangulated match with both Miguel and Jose Manuel on chromosome 9 and then 11cM+ with your grandpa also on chromosome 12 and with Miguel on chromosome 6. But I'll take a closer look at their trees to see where else we intersect (surely in at least a few other lines, given the endogamy in the region).

You are so lucky that you were able to test so high up on your tree. The highest I can get now on my maternal side is an aunt because neither my grandparents nor my mom are around anymore. It was my mom's recent passing, btw, which flung me into genealogical research.

Anyway, I hope the names of the parents of Felipe Quezada pop up somewhere soon. Perhaps with the help of the Quezada paternal haplogpup? I got a similar situation with my second last name (my maternal grandpa's last name). It is Sánchez and it also comes from the Zacatecas side. I hit the same kind of wall with the parents of Blas Sánchez (husband of Desideria Carlos, daughter of Antonio Justo Carlos de Godoy and Rita Laureana Llanos y Valdez). He might've been a Sánchez Castellanos, but as Erlinda said: with no marriage record or any birth record of their kids listing paternal grandparents, there might not be a way to tell. And I got no male Sánchez in my midst to test...

Let's see if I got this straight by just looking at my tree:

Maria Clara Chavez y Bañuelos is the daughter of Isabel de Soto y Almeida and Juan José Chavez de Bañuelos. Juan José is son of Pedro Chavez y Bañuelos and Quiteria Gamboa (/Guzman?).

Juan de la Torre is the son of Angela Velasco Renteria y Mojica (daughter of Sancho and Agueda del Rio y Loza) and Juan del Campo y de la Torre, who is the son of Juan del Campo and Juana Gamboa, the sister of Clara's grandmother Quiteria, right?

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husband of 1st cousin 12x removed of Chet Castanon
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ID: I12946
Name: Jose de Chavez
Sex: M
Event: Tree Trunk 1640
Birth: ABT 1640
_PHOTO:
File: C:\Users\JoseCarlos\Documents\Family Tree Maker\De Leon & Carlos Family Tree 2014(1) Media\Jose de Chavez Tree Trunk recordimage 3.jpg
Title: Jose de Chavez Tree Trunk record-image (3)
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Marriage 1 Leonor de Chavez b: ABT 1641
Children
Has Children Maria Clara de Chavez b: ABT 1670 in Monte Escobedo, Zacatecas, Mexico
Has Children Jose de Chavez b: ABT 1660 in Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
information shared by Jose Carlo de Leon
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marriage dispensation 4th degree igual
trunk...Jose Chaves and Leonor Chaves Banuelos
Don Jph de Chabes.........Dona Clara Chabes.. 1st
Dona Maria de Chabes......Dona Andrea de la Torre.. 2nd
Dona Francisca Mayorga....Dona Luisa del Muro.. 3rd
Don Prudencio de Leon.....Dona M. Jpha de Santiago.. 4th
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marriage dispensation 3rd degree
Tunk...Juan Chavez Banuelos and Ysabel Soto Almieda
Maria Chavez............Josefa Chavez.. siblings 1st degree
Matiana de la Torre.....Marcos Sanchez... 2nd
Juan Ultrera............Teresa Sanchez.....3rd
source: 168375 sagrada mitra dispensation
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take your pick!
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First question, Erlinda:
Where did the name Leonor Chávez come from? I don’t see it anywhere on that dispensa (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X45Y-F?cc=1874591&wc=3J48-…). The trunk only has “Jph de Chabes” at the top. I just reread the whole thing. Did I miss it? Or is there a marriage record between this Joseph de Chavez and a Leonor de Chavez? Where did Jose Carlo de León get that information?

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Jose, can you share the link to the record you shared?

we have a question for you.. where did this record come from?
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ID: I12946
Name: Jose de Chavez
Sex: M
Event: Tree Trunk 1640
Birth: ABT 1640
_PHOTO:
File: C:\Users\JoseCarlos\Documents\Family Tree Maker\De Leon & Carlos Family Tree 2014(1) Media\Jose de Chavez Tree Trunk recordimage 3.jpg
Title: Jose de Chavez Tree Trunk record-image (3)
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Marriage 1 Leonor de Chavez b: ABT 1641
Children
Has Children Maria Clara de Chavez b: ABT 1670 in Monte Escobedo, Zacatecas, Mexico
Has Children Jose de Chavez b: ABT 1660 in Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
information shared by Jose Carlo de Leon
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marriage dispensation 4th degree igual
trunk...Jose Chaves and Leonor Chaves Banuelos
Don Jph de Chabes............Dona Clara Chabes.. 1st
Dona Maria de Chabes......Dona Andrea de la Torre.. 2nd
Dona Francisca Mayorga...Dona Luisa del Muro.. 3rd
Don Prudencio de Leon......Dona M. Jpha de Santiago.. 4th
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Ok, I see now where the name Leonor comes from.

In the dispensa of Miguel de Mayorga and Maria de Chávez Carlos, this is the trunk that is presented
Pedro de Chávez y Bañuelos and Quiteria Gamboa
Luisa de Chávez ….. …1….. Leonor de Chávez (sisters)
Nicolas de Mayorga ……2……..Joseph de Chávez
Miguel de Mayorga …….3………Maria de Chávez Carlos

Miguel de Mayorga and Maria de Chávez Carlos are the parents of Francisca Mayorga, mother of Prudencio de León.
Prudencio married Maria Joseph’s de Santiago, the daughter of Luisa del Muro, granddaughter of Andrea de la Torre, great-granddaughter of our Clara. So yep, our Clara is daughter of Leonor, not Isabel de Soto y Almeida. Maria and Clara are two different people who seem to be related between them. Perhaps cousins? Is it possible that Captain Juan de la Torre Valdes married the two cousins? New theory.

the dispensation claiming leonor chavez and jose chavez got married and had kids probably had an error in it since it conflicts with older dispensa with miguel mayorga. it seems that leonor and juan jose are siblings and leonor had a natural son named jose. not sure who the bio father was but leonor must have died when her son was young and he was raised by his uncle.
I had a discussion with manuel dominguez on wikitree about this and we came to the conclusion that what i stated above is the most likely reason why the dispensas conflict with each other

Hey Katy and Erlinda,

Do you know which dispensa specifically claims that Leonor and Joseph Chávez married each other?

The way that I came to the conclusion that our Clara is daughter of Leonor de Chavez and Joseph de Chavez Sr. was by combining ONLY the Miguel de Mayorga/Maria Chavez Carlos dispensa with the Prudencio de Leon/Maria Josefa de Santiago one. I traced the relationships on paper to try to understand using exclusively the info posted on those two. I don’t think they contradicted each other at all, but rather complemented each other, but will check again to be sure. The only thing they contradicted was the info of Isabel Soto as Clara’s mom. But perhaps there is another dispensa that clearly contradicts the info on Mayorga/Chavez Carlos and the de Leon/de Santiago ones (other than the bunch that have "Maria" de Chavez instead of Clara as daughter of Isabel?

Rosalinda and I have been looking through all the dispensas of the descendants of this bunch, making notes and trying to make sense out of all of this. We are clearly still missing some, so perhaps we can collectively make a list of all of the ones we find and share it here with links so we can all reference the same material?

like i said earlier, the 1770's dispensation most likely mistakenly assumed clara and jose were siblings but were actually first cousins. i can came to that conclusion based on both those records and other dispsantions listing maria clara's dad and juan jose chavez y banuelos and linking her as a sister of josefa chavez.
First i'll share the link to the dispensation that refers to clara as maria clara chavez https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-897B-B45W?i=91&cc=1937…

here's some other marriage dispensations
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6R92-J2?i=405&cc=18745…

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6YZT-W?cc=1874591

this one below links josefa as sister to pedro who married agueda del rio.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4SJ-4D?i=183&cc=18745…

Thank you so much for these links, Katy. Also, a shout out to Erlinda who has been directing us to many others.

Rosalinda and I are looking through these and all the rest of the related dispensas, many for the second or third time over, and we are working together on a document that contains all the links, trunks and other relevant information of each one of them. We currently have an alternate theory which we will explain if we believe all these documents confirm it, but either way, we will soon post all the info on this thread.

So I am back to looking through the dispensas of the descendants of the de la Torre sisters. It's clear that Maria, Antonia, Francisca, Andrea and Magdalena are siblings because they are documented together on multiple trunks of all the dispensas that Erlinda shared. My question is about the Orta/Barragan dispensa that Katy posted: is there another document that would either link Maria or Antonia or Francisca or Andrea or Magdalena with Augustina de la Torre, the mother of Felipe Santiago Orta? Because from what I can gather, this dispensa is the only one that links Juan de la Torre (husband of Clara Chavez) to Juan del Campo de la Torre and Angela Velasco Moxica. Thing is, the Maria de la Torre mentioned in that Orta/Barragan dispensa is not the daughter of Juan de la Torre and Clara Chavez and wife of Felipe Quezada, but is the daughter of Sebastian de la Torre and the wife of Pablo Barragán...
Please somebody tell me I am simply missing a piece of the puzzle and not that Augustina is not a sister to all of the rest...

I think clara's full name was Maria Clara de chavez y banuelos. there are several dispensations indicating that her parents are juan jose chavez y banuelos and isabel soto almeida. some dispensations call her maria, others call her clara. but i recall coming accross one record that called her maria clara chavez(can't remember which one, i haven't inputted all records related to her yet on wikitree. also the maria de la torre mentioned in orta/barragan dispensation is a cousin of our ancestor maria de la torre

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is this the Sebastian you are talking about ?

marriage dispensation 4th degree igual
Trunk...Juan de la Torre and Leonor Ortiz Villalobos
Juana de la Torre................Quiteria Gamboa..1st degree
Sebastian de la Torre.........Luisa Chavez..2nd
Ma. de la Torre.....................Nicolas Chavez..3rd
Diego Martinez Barragan..Maria Mayorga Chavez..4th
source: 168359 Sagrada Mitra film
page 431 Familysearch online
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I also have Maria de la Torre daughter of Sebastian de la Torre and her husband Joseph Martinez Barragan with a son Pablo married to Felipe Escobedo Carlos de Godoy..

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the record reads:
witness: Don Roque de la Torre Espanol from his hacienda de Lechuguilla age 56
Trunk Don Juan de la Torre and Dona Juana Gamboa
son Don Sebastian de la Torre and wife Ana del Rio
parents of Dona Maria de la Torre married to Don Joseph Barragan
parents of Don Pablo Martinez de Barragan married to Phelipa de Escovedo
parents of Dona Antonia de Dolores Barragan.. bride
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son Don Juan de la Torre married to Dona Angela Velasco Moxica
parents of Don Juan de la Torre married to Maria Chabes Banuelos
parents of Dona Augustina de la Torre married to Don Andres de Orta
parents of Don Phelipe Santiago de Orta.. groom
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marriage dispensation 4th degree
Trunk.....Capt. Juan de la Torre and Juana Gamboa
Juan de la Torre..........Sebastian de la Torre .. 1st
Juan de la Torre..........Maria de la Torre........2nd
Augustina de la Torre…....Pablo Martinez Barragan..3rd
Santiago Orta.............Antonia Barragan.........4th degree
source: 168375 Sagrada Mitra dispensation
page 121 Familysearch online
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Hey Erlinda, hey Katy. Thank you both for replying.

Erlinda: sorry, I meant Santiago de Orta. Not Sebastian. The one in the last dispensa you posted in your more recent message.
Felipe Santiago de Orta, son of Augustina de la Torre and Andres de Orta y Cuellar who first married his cousin Andrea Miranda (there’s also a dispensa), then Juana Carlos and then Antonia Barragán.

Btw, before I forget: the marriage date of our Juan de la Torre Valdés and Clara de Chávez is 10 feb 1684 (found on Arturo Ramos’ Tlaltenango book thanks to Rosalinda and Nefi A.).

I guess I am trying to confirm without any doubt that Augustina, Mathiana and Diego are indeed siblings of Maria, Andrea, Antonia, Francisca, Magdalena and Agustin. I mean, it makes sense that they are, but Rosalinda and I have not been able to triangúlate dispensas between the two groups of siblings yet.

What is a good sign, I guess, is that both Augustina and Maria both are registered in some documents as de la Torre Valdés like Juan in his marriage record with Clara. And that’s also the name of the Juan married to Juana Gamboa, who is listed as the paternal grandfather of Augustina in the Orta-Barragán dispensa. Our Juan is also called Capitan as is the Juan son of Angela Velasco Moxica.

Edit: ah! As I was posting this message, Erlinda added more dispensas to the mix. Will comment on my next reply.

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I have this...
1st cousin 11x removed of Chet Castanon (My Father)
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marriage dispensation 3rd degree in 4th degree
Trunk....Don Juan de la Torre
Magdalena de la Torre...Antonia de la Torre.. sisters 1st
Antonio de Robles.......Juan de Velasco.. 2nd
Ylario de Robles........Gertrudis de Velasco.. 3rd
.........................Ma. Cresencia Sanchez.. 4th
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marriage dispensation 4th degree
Trunk....Juan de la Torre...
Andrea de la Torre.........Maria de la Torre....1st degree
Luisa del Muro.............Gertrudis Quesada..2nd degree
Felipe de Santiago.........Petra Henrriquez.....3rd degree
Juan Jose de Santiago......Ma. Josefa Ortis.....4th degree
.
marriage dispensation 3rd degree
Trunk.. Don Juan de la Torre and (Clara Chavez)
Andrea de la Torre.......Antonia de la Torre.. sisters 1st
Ma. Lusia del Muro.......Juan Velasco... 2nd
Juan Felipe Santiago.....Francisca Velasco.. 3rd
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree
Trunk....Don Juan de la Torre and Clara Chavez
Dona Antonia de la Torre....Dona Andrea de la Torre.. sisters 1st
Dona Ma. Corona Velasco.....Dona Ma. Luisa del Muro.. 2nd
Dona Ma. Lus de Nava........Don Felipe de Santiago.. 3rd
Dona Soledad Perez..........Don Ricardo Santiago.. 4th
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree
Trunk... Don Juan de la Torre
Maria de la Torre....Magdalena de la Torre.. sisters 1st
Gertrudis Quezada....Agustina Robles.. 2nd
Petra Enrriques......Narcizo Gonsales.. 3rd
Ma. Justa Ortis......J. Antonio Gonsales.. 4th
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree
Trunk.... Don Juan de la Torre
Dna. Antonia de la Torre.....Dna. Magdalena de la Torre.. 1st
Dn. Juan de Velazco..........Dna. Agustina de Robles.. 2nd
Dna. Ma. Jpha de Velazco.....Dna. Ma. Corona Gonzales.. 3rd
Don Andres de Palos..........Dna. Ma. Victoriana Gonzales.. 4th
.

I don't know, but now that I have it in my radar, I'll let you know if I find anything.

p.s. I should've proofread my post before hitting save/enter. I mean to obviously say that they lived in Colotlan and they both died there in the 1730s. Maria was born around 1691 and died in 1731. Felipe passed away in 1737.

What I find interesting that it seems like they started out in Colotlan (where they had their kid Diego) then went to Huejucar and then moved to Tlaltenango and then settled back in Colotlan. Gertrudis Quezada, their daughter who is my ancestor, was born in Las Bocas around 1709 (she got married to Antonio Enriquez in Colotlan, though). Felipe and Maria had two kids born in Tlaltenango in the 1710s (Domingo and Manuel) and then the rest in Colotlan.

I don't know, but now that I have it in my radar, I'll let you know if I find anything.

p.s. I should've proofread my post before hitting save/enter. I mean to obviously say that they lived in Colotlan and they both died there in the 1730s. Maria was born around 1691 and died in 1731. Felix passed away in 1737.

What I find interesting that it seems like they started out in Colotlan (where they had their kid Diego) then went to Huejucar and then moved to Tlaltenango and then settled back in Colotlan. Gertrudis Quezada, their daughter who is my ancestor, was born in Las Bocas around 1709 (she got married to Antonio Enriquez in Colotlan, though). Felipe and Maria had two kids born in Tlaltenango in the 1710s (Domingo and Manuel) and then the rest in Colotlan.

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