Online Status

Por 245luigi |

I have recently connected myself to Joseph Simon Gutierrez Coronado and Juana Ayala y Valdivia.

Does anyone have any information regarding the ancestors of this couple? They are having children in Jalostotitlán from at least 1703 - 1714. Unfortunately marriage records just prior to this date are not available.

I have a feeling Juana will connect somehow (probably daughter) to Blas Valdivia y Mendoza and Juana Leal de Ayala.

Thanks,
Alex

Hello,

A while ago, I discovered a dispensa for one of Jose Simon's and Juana's children (Maria de San Juan Gutierrez Coronado y Ayala):

Dispensa Matrimonial entre Luis Antonio Salcedo y Maria de San Juan Gutierrez Coronado - Ocotlan, Jalisco (Mayo 23, 1725)

In it we find out that the novios are related through their Chavez Romero ancestry. We also find out that the parents of Jose Simon were Juan Gutierrez Coronado y Navarro (cc Juana de la Mora y Zamora). Unfortunately, it does not contain any information on Juana de Ayala's ancestry.

I hope this helps.

Daniel Serna Valencia

Hey Alex,

Because the Ocotlan books for those years are a nightmare, here’s Joseph Simon’s parents's marriage, 24 May 1671: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5RG-3?i=393&wc=3J6F-7M3

Juan Gutierrez Coronado’s parents were Juan Gutierrez Coronado cc Maria de Cabrera; Maria de Cabrera might be the daughter of Pedro Navarro Gaitan cc Maria de Cabrera, though I'm not sure. I say that, because Juan Gutierrez and Maria de Cabrera su muger were living in the house of doña Maria de Cabrera in the 1683 padron of Ocotlan, and though it doesn’t say she was a viuda, I can only suppose that doña Maria de Cabrera was viuda of Pedro Navarro Gaitan, since their children are living in the other houses. Bottom center:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-D92G-3?i=1215&cc=18833…

Either way, she's going to be a descendant of Martin Casillas cc Mencia Gonzalez de Cabrera.

That’ll keep you busy for a while!

Manny Díez Hermosillo

Thanks for the record Manny!

Lucky for me I put almost everyone I find in my research in my tree regardless if I am I direct descendant or not if they connect to others already in my tree. I already descend from Martin Casillas and Mencia Gonzalez Cabrera through other lines so I had Maria Cabrera and Pedro Navarro Gaitan in my tree. The dispensa filled the gap I was missing.

What I have not worked on before is the Gutierrez Coronado lines which I am sure will send me me in those nightmare books you speak of.

I am not sure why Maria Cabrera is not mentioned as a viuda in the Padron but the family looks right and Pedro passed in 1655. Also, wow Morelia looks to have alot of relevant records for this family.

Based off some internet searches, seems like there is some confusion regarding Pedro Navarro Gaitan and his brother Diego Navarro Gaitan.

From my research I have found that Mateo Navarro and Geronima Gaitan had Pedro Navarro Gaitan m. Maria Cabrera and Diego Navarro Gaitan m. Cecilia Patino de Salseda. Maria Cabrera was the daughter of Francisco Casillas y Cabrera and Francisca Gutierrez Vasquez de Escobar.

Now Martin Casillas and Mencia Gonzalez de Cabrera also had a Maria Casillas who married Agustin de la Vega and Diego Navarro Gaitan. Timelines would suggest this Diego is the same as that who married Cecilia Patino de Salseda. Can anyone confirm that?

Alex

There's a dispensa that confirms that Maria Casillas (cc Pedro Navarro Gaytan) was a daughter of Martin Casillas and Mencia Gonzalez de Cabrera. In the following dispensa:

Dispensa Matrimonial entre Melchor Gutierrez Coronado y Ines Martin de Sotomayor, Tepatitlan (Enero 4, 1722)

We find out that groom and bride are related through their Casillas ancestry. Melchor is a descendant of Maria Casillas de Cabrera (cc Pedro Navarro Gaytan) and Ines is a descendant of Francisco Casillas de Cabrera (cc Maria Gonzalez de Hermosillo).

Daniel Serna Valencia

Daniel,

I appreciate the primary sources you are linking here! They are a great source of information. There is a discrepancy between our genealogies though so I hope we can figured out the correct one.

For clarity here is what I believe the relevant relationships to be:

Martin Casillas and Mencia Gonzalez de Cabrera had:

* Maria Casillas y Cabrera (1) m. Augustin de la Vega and Diego Navarro Gaitan
* Francisco Casillas y Cabrera (1) m. Francisca Gutierrez Vasquez de Escobar

Francisco Casillas y Cabrera (1) m. Francisca Gutierrez Vasquez de Escobar had:

* Maria Casillas y Cabrera (2) m. Pedro Navarro Gaitan
* Francisco Casillas (2) m. Maria Gonzalez de Hermosillo

Maria Casillas y Cabrera (2) m. Pedro Navarro Gaitan had:
* Maria Cabrera (3) m. Juan Gutierrez Coronado

I agree with your conclusions regarding the first dispensa between Geronimo Macias and Lugarda Estrada. I don't believe there is any info in it regarding the parents of Maria Cabrera (2), but I don't actually speak Spanish so I could be wrong.

Regarding the dispensa for Melchor Gutierrez Coronado and Ines Martin de Sotomayor, I can see the following:

Maria Casillas Cabrera-----hermanos-------Francisco Casillas Cabrera
Maria de Cabrera--------------------------Martin Casillas
Felipe Gutierrez Coronado-----------------Josefa Casillas Cabrera
Melchor Gutierrez Coronado----------------Ines Martinez de Sotomayor

and

Melchor Gonzalez de Hermosillo-----hermanos-------Maria de Hermosillo
Melchor Gonzalez de Hermosillo--------------------Martin Casillas
Francisca Gonzalez--------------------------------Josefa Casillas Cabrera
Melchor Gutierrez Coronado------------------------Ines Martinez de Sotomayor

In accordance with my numbering above that would be:

Maria Casillas Cabrera (2)----hermanos----Francisco Casillas Cabrera (2)
Maria de Cabrera (3)----------------------Martin Casillas
Felipe Gutierrez Coronado-----------------Josefa Casillas Cabrera
Melchor Gutierrez Coronado----------------Ines Martinez de Sotomayor

I think confusion lies in that both Martin Casillas m. Mencia Gonzalez de Cabrera and
Francisco Casillas y Cabrera (1) m. Francisca Gutierrez Vasquez de Escobar had children named Francisco and Maria. So the goal is to figure out under which parents Francisco and Maria (troncos of the dispensa) lie.

Here is a document that states Francisco Casillas Cabrera (2) m. Maria Gonzalez is the son of Francisco Casillas y Cabrera (1) m. Francisca Gutierrez Vasquez de Escobar and actually goes up the same line as the dispensa:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6DS4-8S?i=426&cc=18745…

Here is also one of my sources for Maria Casillas y Cabrera (1) m. Diego Navarro Gaitan

Also on page 28 of this document:

https://www.museocjv.com/LIBROSDECLAUDIO/monografias/cuadernosinah.pdf

states that Maria Casillas y Cabrera (2) m. Pedro Navarro Gaitan was a nieta of Martin Casillas, although I am not sure if the info comes from a primary source or not.

Please let me know what you think.

Alex

I think the main issue here is whether there was a Diego Navarro Gaytan married to a Maria de Cabrera. Do you have any children attributed to Diego Navarro Gaytan and Maria de Cabrera? I haven't run across this specific couple given the time period we are dealing with (early 1600s Ocotlan/Poncitlan, etc.)

I can tell you that both Pedro Navarro Gaytan (cc Maria de Cabrera) and Diego Navarro Gaytan (cc Cecilia Patino de Salceda) were brothers - both children of Mateo Navarro and Geronima Briceno Gaytan. I know this given a partial copy of Geronima Briceno Gaytan's will that's included in the documents for a Capellania that Diego Navarro and Cecilia Patino founded:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-6C7Q-K?i=935&cc=1883388&cat=394235

As for the Casillas questions, unfortunately, it's not a family I've studied closely. As such, I can't offer much clarity on what generation the various Maria Casillas belong in, etc.

Daniel,

Gotchya. Thank you for linking the will.

No I have not found any children attributed to Diego and Maria in church Baptismal, Marriage or Death records. This all could be the cause of a notary mistake where years later Pedro is confused with Diego.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6DS4-8S?i=426&cc=18745…

This link states a Cayetano Navarro was a descendent of Diego Navarro Gaitan implying children but this appears to be a testimony.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6DS9-BP?i=355&cc=18745…

This link states Diego Navarro Gaitan was Maria Casillas' second husband.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DGFB-P?i=180&wc=3JWY-Y…

This link says that Agustin de la Vega was the first husband. I have found one child to them, Juan, baptized 1606 in Guadalajara.

The PDF I previously linked states Diego married Maria and Pedro married a different Maria. It would be great to actually actually the source document.

Thats about it for Diego.

Nevertheless, thanks for the sources and discussion!

Alex

Daniel,

What is your opinion on the following:

Looking at that capellania you linked regarding Cecilia Patino de Salseda, there is the portion you mention regarding Geronima Gaitan's will. On the right page 7th line it says "pedro perez de camora mi hermano". Do you think Geronima actually had a brother with this name or perhaps a transcribing error where the original said yerno?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-6C7G-M?i=937&wc=3JMY-L…

Alex

Hello Alex,

I've noticed that there was a custom amongst our ancestors (At least in Michoacan since I've only really seen it there) that they would call their brother/sisters-in-law their "brothers/sisters". I have seen the same with someone calling their mother/father-in-law, "mother/father". It was more or less a term of endearment it would seem. I think that the Pedro Perez de Zamora that Geronima is referring to might be her brother-in-law that married her sister (Leonor de Briceno Gaitan).

Daniel

Gah I'm a dummy. Yerno definitely was wrong on my part, I had meant cunado. Had no idea this was a Michoacan thing, good to know!

Also for anyone else following along. I just found a document that confirms Diego Navarro Gaitan m. Cecilia Petino de Salseda also married Maria de Cabrera daughter of Martin Casillas and Mencia Gonzalez de Cabrera. This is the moment where I wish I actually knew spanish...

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-D35L-T?i=440&cat=…

Top left of page 441 "Diego Navarro y dona maria de cabrera mi muger difunta"
Top left of page 442 "Mencia Gonzalez mi suegra"
Right middle of page 442 "Geronima Gaitan mi madre"

Several pages before and after are relevant. I am not sure what this document is about.

Also how I found this document was seriously cool, at least to me.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DGNC-G?i=164&wc=3JWY-Y…

This capellania has ripped up documents in it but I could see the date of 1631 and mentions Juan Sedano. I went to his protocolos and BAM something relevant!

WOW! That is a fantastic find and it confirms that Diego Navarro (Son of Mateo Navarro and Geornima Gaitan) was married twice! His first marriage with Maria Cabrera and his second marriage with Cecilia Patino de Salceda. Thank you for sharing such wonderful information!

One lingering question... Are there any primary resources that confirm the parents of Maria Cabrera (cc Pedro Navarro Gaitan, brother of this Diego Navarro Gaitan?)

Thanks again!

Daniel,

Right, so cool!

So a couple pages before in the protocolo is what you are looking for:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-D35K-4?i=435&cat=…

"mencia Gonzalez de Cabrera viuda muger que fue de Martin Casillas"

"mencia Gonzalez de cabrera durante el matrimonio ... y de dicho mi marido ... hijos legitimos a dona maria de cabrera muger ... primero fue de agustin de la vega y segunda vez del dicho diego navarro"

This just shows you my level of spanish lol I can handle it when its similar to italian but thats it. Hopefully I read it right.

Whoops just realized I misunderstood your question. I'll leave this up and get you a source for Maria Cabrera cc Pedro Navarro Gaitan

We know for sure that (1) Maria de Cabrera cc Pedro Navarro Gaitan is different from (2) Maria Casillas cc Diego Navarro Gaitan because Maria (2) passed by the end of 1631 and Maria (1) was having children as late as 1642 (Mateo Navarro, Ocotlan).

So as far as a primary source expressly saying (1) Maria de Cabrera cc Pedro Navarro Gaitan is the daughter of Francisco Casillas y Cabrera and Francisca Gutierrez Vasquez de Escobar, looks like I don't have one. The relationship has to be pieced together using dispensas.

I think the quickest/easiest is using the sources from your previous post on this thread.

The dispensa for Melchor Gutierrez Coronado and Ines Martin de Sotomayor establishes
(1) Maria de Cabrera cc Pedro Navarro Gaitan is the sister of Francisco Casillas Cabrera cc Maria Hermosillo where the following document states Francisco Casillas Cabrera m. Maria Gonzalez is the son of Francisco Casillas y Cabrera m. Francisca Gutierrez Vasquez de Escobar and actually goes up the same line as the dispensa:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6DS4-8S?i=426&cc=18745…

I believe I have more to support this but I have to leave for the airport and can take a better look when I am back on Wednesday.

Note my numbering for the Marias is different on this post than the previous one

Hope this helps!
Alex

Thanks again Alex for the additional documentation, clues, and guidance in helping clear up the confusion between the Pedro and Diego Navarro and the two Maria Cabreras. What I conclude from all the documents shared here (Dispensas, Capellanias, Protocolos, etc.) is the following:

Mateo Navarro and Geronima Briseno Gaitan were the parents of:

Diego Navarro Gaitan: First married to Maria Casillas de Cabrera (Daughter of Martin Casillas cc Mencia Gonzalez de Cabrera). His second marriage was to Cecliia Patino de Salceda.

Pedro Navarro Gaitan: He married Maria Cabrera (Daughter of Francisco Casillas de Cabrera cc Francisca Vasquez de Escobar)

Does that coincide with your conclusions as well?

Thank You,

Daniel

Yes I have the same in my tree!

Here is what I have for children of Mateo Navarro and Geronima Briseno Gaitan (so far as I only just started researching them):
*Pedro Briseno
*Bartolome Navarro cc Catalina Hurtado de Mendoza
*Diego Navarro Gaitan cc 1. Maria Cabrera daughter of Martin 2. Cecilia Patino de Salceda
*Pedro Navarro Gaitan cc Maria Cabrera daughter of Francisco

For fun here is what I have for the children of Martin Casillas and Mencia Gonzalez de Cabrera:
*Domingo Casillas, a priest
*Ines Casillas y Cabrera cc Diego Anzueta
*Mariana Casillas y Cabrera cc 1. Lazaro Sanchez Dominguez 2. Diego Sanchez Caballero
*Sebastiana Casillas y Cabrera cc NN Siordia
*Maria Casillas y Cabrera cc 1. Agustin de la Vega 2. Diego Navarro Gaitan
*Martin Casillas cc Elvira Arenas
*Francisco Casillas y Cabrera cc Francisca Gutierrez Vasquez de Escobar
*Rodrigo Casillas, a priest
*Juan Casillas

Alex

Hello,

To clear up Maria Cabrera's parents (cc Juan Gutierrez Coronado), I offer up another dispensa between Geronimo Macias and Lugarda de Estrada:

Dispensa Matrimonial entre Geronimo Macias y Lugarda de Estrada, Ayo el Chico (Enero 2, 1741)

In the dispensa we find out that Lugarda's ancestor, Maria Cabrera (cc Juan Gutierrez Coronado) was the daughter or Pedro Navarro Gaytan and Maria Casillas de Cabrera. Geronimo's ancestor, Ana Cabrera (cc Diego Macias Valadez) was also a daughter of Pedro Navarro Gaytan and Maria Casillas de Cabrera.

Hope this helps.

Daniel Serna Valencia

Hi Alex,

I have seen the surname Gutierrez Coronado in Ocotlan during the 1600's, so you might want to dig around there.

Good luck!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Genealogy Research