Dr.mt

LIFE in Colonial MEXICO , Collection of letters from a woman living in Nueva Espana

Published by serna_david –
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History, Culture and General Discussion

Hola !
I am trying to locate the name of a book I used to read online. It was a collection of letters in ingles, from a woman in Collonial Nueva Espana Mejico.

Comentarios

Comentario

Thank you that is definatly it... I love this book !!! The Insights into Life in this time period are Fantastic... David Serna Here is a sample ..Mexico 1839

Count C---a has promised to send me to-morrow a box of mosquitoes' eggs, of
which tortillas are made, which are considered a great delicacy.
In Mexico, mosquitoes as small winged _cannibals_, I was
rather shocked at the idea, but they pretend that these which are from the
Laguna, are a superior race of creatures, which do not sting. In fact the
Spanish historians mention that the Indians used to eat bread made of the
eggs which the fly called _agayacatl_ laid on the rushes of the lakes, and
which they (the Spaniards) found very palatable.

Error de redaccion !!

Published by Ruben Araiza –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Es increible que se haya cometido un error por un escribano de la parroquia de San Jose de Gracia Rincon de Romos en la fe de bautismo de Jose Filomeno Araiza (De Araiza) hijo legitimo de Valentin De

Censo de Revillagigedo 1790

Published by Ruben Araiza –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hello everybody... I have been trynig to upload the files of Censo de Revillagigedo but after to waste severals minutes... I fail.... I desist, I waste too much time trying.

UNESCO honors don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa

Published by San Jose de Llanetes –
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Announcements and Events

Guillermo Tovar de Teresa: Un gran defensor del patrimonio cultural

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Comentario

Carlos Peredo

La pérdida de Don Guillermo ha sido un doloroso golpe para muchos que lo estimamos: por supuesto quienes lo trataron en persona, pero también algunos como yo que solo lo tratamos por vía espistolar y que no obstante eso, no pudimos sino apreciar y valorar sus enormes conocimientos, y agradecer su generosidad al compartir sus hallazgos.

El gusto que me da al enterarme de honores y reconocimientos a Don Guillermo hace más llevadero el pesar por su partida.

Un recuerdo al erudito.....un saludo al amigo.

descendientes Gonzalez de Hermosillo en Cosalá Sinaloa

Published by xavo666 –
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Genealogy Research

Quisiera saber si alguién tiene ancestros Gonzalez de Hermosillo en Sinaloa o si saben algún antecedente de Juan Bautista Gonzalez de Hermosillo (1790 aprox), su hijo Julio Gonzalez de Hermosillo Be

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Comentario

Javier,

Creo que seamos parientes por el Lopez Portillo, mi tatarabuela era Lorenza Lopez Portillo y Castro nacida en 1883. Interesantemente, encontre un Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo casandose con una Ignacia Maria de Celis en 6 de abril de 1812 en el Sagrario Metropolitano de Saltillo. Se que no es el estado que te interesa mas siempre es bueno buscar en las regiones alreadores. Recopilar cualquier dato que pueda ayudar. Te sugiero revisar esta acta y ver que encuentras. Como es en el norte, es posible que sea pariente de tu linea. Casi todos nosostros somos descendientes de los Hermosillo, yo lo soy unas 14 veces! Qual era el nombre de la mujer de Juan Bautista Gonzalez de Hermosillo. Es importantisimo que sigues la migracion de esta familia desde los Altos de Jalisco hasta Sinaloa. He vista tantas familias radicar en otras regiones en toda la republica. Amo el estudio genealogico y suma importancia en perservacion de la historia.

Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino

Comentario

Mi estimado Daniel, mucho agradezco el tiempo que te has tomado para responder éste mensaje, en el ambito del estudio genealógico estoy a la par de interesado que tú ya tengo unos añitos en ésto. luego compartimos info de la rama de los LP por ahora ando ayudando a una pariente y ver de dónde llegaron y de que rama proceden sus GH, quedamos encontacto, no me despido, saludos

Census Records

Published by Jose Aguayo Ortega –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Does anyone have suggestions for finding census records of Indios living on the Hacienda de Garabato and Hacienda de Parades in Aguascalientes in the 1700s? Do such records exist?

Comentarios

Comentario

Jose,

According to Lyman Platt's book, census records for Latin America, he shows
that there are several rolls of film for Aguascalientes' census records.
This appears to imply that the Census records may be mixed in with the
parish Baptismal records, however this doesn't define the parishes in
Aguascalientes where the records may be found, only the years.

- Year 1649 - Reference is Archivo del Parral
- Year 1770 - Bpt Manuscript 1770
- Year 1792 - AGN PAD 5:1520345:2
- Year 1760 - ?
- Year 1770 - BPT Manuscript 45
- Year 1780 - BPT Manuscript 45
- Year 1803 - TRI 43

Alicia,

San Jose, Ca

On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 12:22 PM, wrote:

> Does anyone have suggestions for finding census records of Indios living
> on the Hacienda de Garabato and Hacienda de Parades in Aguascalientes in
> the 1700s? Do such records exist?
>
> Jose Aguayo Ortega
> joseaguayo601@gmail.com -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Comentario

Jose,

After looking further in the book, I found a statement where it says
"Paredes Hacienda" and it can be found under "Partido de San Jose de
Gracia" you might want to look under San Jose de Gracia, but I didn't find
any mention of Hacienda de Garabato.

Alicia

On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

> Jose,
>
> According to Lyman Platt's book, census records for Latin America, he
> shows that there are several rolls of film for Aguascalientes' census
> records. This appears to imply that the Census records may be mixed in with
> the parish Baptismal records, however this doesn't define the parishes in
> Aguascalientes where the records may be found, only the years.
>
> - Year 1649 - Reference is Archivo del Parral
> - Year 1770 - Bpt Manuscript 1770
> - Year 1792 - AGN PAD 5:1520345:2
> - Year 1760 - ?
> - Year 1770 - BPT Manuscript 45
> - Year 1780 - BPT Manuscript 45
> - Year 1803 - TRI 43
>
> Alicia,
>
> San Jose, Ca
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 12:22 PM, wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have suggestions for finding census records of Indios living
>> on the Hacienda de Garabato and Hacienda de Parades in Aguascalientes in
>> the 1700s? Do such records exist?
>>
>> Jose Aguayo Ortega
>> joseaguayo601@gmail.com -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>
>> To post, send email to:
>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>
>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>
>
>

Comentario

Jose,

It's probably not a book you need to get because it doesn't actually have
the census records. What it does, is to give the film numbers for the
census records of the Mexico Municipios and most of that information you
can find on-line now a days. If there's some film number for any specific
municipio that you'd like for me to look up, I'd be happy to do that and
provide you with the number.

Alicia

On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 3:16 PM, wrote:

> Thanks for the information, Alicia. I will try to get a copy of Lyman
> Platt's book.
> Jose Aguayo Ortega

Comentario

Jose

At the Family Search catalog search page, start typing "Mexico, Aguascalientes" in the box, when it comes up in the list, click on it in the list, then click on search.

When you click on search you will get a number of topics ... select "Mexico, Aguascalientes - Census" this will take you to "Padrones parroquiales : antigua Diócesis de Michoacán, 1734-1875." From the link for Michoacan Catholic Church Records, go to Morelia, then Arquidiocesis de Morelia, and finally scroll down to the Padrones.

If you scroll to the bottom of the page before following the link for Michoacan Catholic Church Records you will get a list of the padrones that have been filmed, and it gives the area each covers.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

156 Missing Images

Published by Stuart Armstrong –
Foros
Genealogy Research

At the end of FHL microfilm 635747, after 30 feet or so of blank film, at the extreme end of the roll, are 156 images that have never been digitized.

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Comentario

I don't have any idea about what you can legally do with the images on this roll of microfilm, but thanks for the heads-up! This is one of the rolls that I recently ordered for indefinite loan to an LDS Family History Center in Denver. I haven't yet had a chance to look at the film but will do so soon, now armed with your alert about the images following a blank spot on the film. Muchas gracias.

Comentario

Thank you for sharing this discovery. I'm sure it will help us who do serious Aguascalientes research in the future. As a independent scholar, historian and researcher on the side, you should publish it. Present it as your own contribution to the field of study and also a genealogical society, maybe Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society. I have so much to publish, I have to get around it.

Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino

Comentario

Stuart

One option would be to create an extracted list of those images with at least date, child, parents. If someone had more time, they could add the location of the birth.

The list could be posted here are NR. I'm some of our colleagues here would appreciate it.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Censo de Rivillagigedo 1790

Published by Ruben Araiza –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Tengo en formato de CD el censo de Revillagigedo del 1790 en varios archivos PDF...Como le hago para compartirlos con quienes realmente se interesen. son aproximadamente 700 mb.

Comentarios

FamilySearch.org - Shuffling archives???

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
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Genealogy Research

Hola primos,

Comentarios

Comentario

Victor M Gomez

QUE MALO QUE DE UN DIA A OTRO SE PIERDAN LOS ENLACES, LO BUENO QUE YO ANOTABA NUMERO DE IMAGEN, YA FUERA MATRIMONIO, DEFUNCION, BAUTIZO O DISPENSA, ASI COMO NUMERO DE ROLLO Y EN ALGUNOS CAZOS NUMERO DE FOJA Y ACTA, ESTO DESDE QUE YA NO SE PUDO GUARDAR LAS IMAGENES.

Comentario

Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo

Victor, si se pueden guardar las imagenes, solo tiene que bajar el programa gratuito de Google que se llama Picasa. Ya bajandolo, haga click en save> enseguida habra el download>hay un toolbar abajo de la imagen que dice edit in Picasa>haga click alli. Se abre otra pagina y seleccione Crop, o recortar. Para selecionar un solo archivo manualmente reduzca la pantalla al tamaño que guste. Si esta borrado el imagen, oprima auto contraste y se aclara la imagen. Si esta chueco, lo puede corregir con straighten, y enseguida guardar su documento como de costumbre.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

Comentario

I think what you are seeing is a manifestation of what the real citation is for the reference.

As an example, the marriage of Jose Maria Rivera and Maria Trinidad Puga on Jan. 30, 1863, at San Antonio de Padua, Cuale: Family Search gives the citation as

"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18568-39968-25?cc=1874591&wc… : accessed 29 Mar 2014), Cuale > San Antonio Padua > Matrimonios 1826-1912 > image 164 of 437.

This citation is actually composed of two parts:

(1) Where the record is located on the digitized film ... "México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979," Cuale > San Antonio Padua > Matrimonios 1826-1912 > image 164 of 437.
(2) Where the image was located on the day it was accessed ... FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18568-39968-25?cc=1874591&wc… : accessed 29 Mar 2014)

What is lacking is the film number.

However, I think a better citation is "San Antonio de Padua, Cuale, Jalisco, Mexico, Matrimonios, Libro 2, folio 64 (verso)." What I have looked at, however, is a digitized copy on FHL film 1156209, which presently resides at the url noted above.

A couple of years ago I created an index of Aguascalientes matrimonial investigations, amounting to a few hundred pages (and posted here at NR), I recorded the image numbers and used the film identification from Family Search. The films were reposted at some point, and all the image numbers are now off by a small number.

What is posted on the internet is not permanent: how often have you tried to follow a link and it is broken?

Ultimately, we need to record enough of the right information to be able to find the record again.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Thank you, George, and agreed: we can't expect the images to remain at the same location forever.

As a note, I just discovered, if you're using an older link, when the "Oops…" error page appears, if you remove everything after the "&" in the URL, you will be redirected to the page you're requesting.

These are all relevant tips for the group. Gracias a todos!

Manny Diez Hermosillo
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/jrefugioghermosillo

Comentario

What you mentioned about removing everything in the URL after the '&' is what worked for me. At first I freaked out for about a second, then started removing sections of the URL until it worked, like going to a Parent Directory from a filename.

Also, I had started adding the image # of the film to my file spreadsheet of records, so at least I had a second backup plan for much of my work.

The only thing is since the majority of my family tree entries have a URL referencing the actual record in addition to the transcriptions I've done of the records, now I have to go back and update all those again, but at least I know where to make the change in the URL. Annoying, but not fatal.

Crisis averted, yay!

Sandra Velez

Comentario

Ruben Rojas

This happened to me also a while back, hours of research lost. I was not able to use old URL's again. So I started saving the actual image to my computer and cropping it, I also use this image as the ancestor picture on my ancestry.com tree for reference and back up.I know how you feel about loosing hours of research.
Good Luck

Comentario

Thanks, Juan!!!! Though an inconvenience, at least I know I won't have to search for each individual document again! It shouldn't be too difficult to go through the above list and make those changes, so I will post it in this forum when I'm finished.

And Ruben, I do the same: I also use Ancestry.com for my main tree, and I download and save then upload the entire image to the tree, tagging all individuals mentioned, thus linking the family members that way. Doing this, I also know when an individual is documented. But I do this only for my direct ancestors and their immediate families; to save time & space, I use the links to the original documents for associated individuals and families (I currently have over 8000 individuals in my tree).

Along with my research notes, I used to list the film roll's name/number & image number ("bautismos 1767-1867 ROLL# img#") in the comments section of each individual, with the URL, but I stopped, thinking it wasn't really necessary. But apparently, it's still a good idea.

I've also begun "sourcing" each event, so all you have to do is click on the link to go to the original file - the link itself is now outdated, but at least it still lists the folder and image number.

Thank you for your tips, primos!

Manny Diez Hermosillo
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/jrefugioghermosillo

Comentario

Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo I save all of my documents with the film#, Book or Volume#, Image#, Page or Foja# all this information I save in the notes section of my database. I crop each document and archive it in my database, then I save it in the Amazon Cloud.

By creating a folder for each film# referenced, it makes it easy to find when needed. Here's an example of how I title the folder.
115602-Matrimonios, Villa Hidalgo-Vol#6-1860-1893.
Any marriage record that falls within this time period will be archived in this folder with the respective names of the bride and groom, page#, image# date of marriage and name of the Rancho or Ranchos they were from.

Alicia

Comentario

Hours? How about years.
A long time ago you could download an image and save it on your own harddisk. The default filename was about a 12-digit image number that uniquely identified that image. Sweet. Only you couldn't plug the filename in anywhere and get to the image. I thought that image number would be permanent, and hoped someday they would use the number for part of a link. But it never happened.

For that reason and because the internet was slow and unreliable, I started a project of downloading as many images as I could. At first it was OK, and the default filename was a handy way to store things. I began using the filename in my citations. Then they made a change and the filename was no longer visible, and everything defaulted to something like image00001. So I had to manually create a new filename with each image. And I had to develope a new system of naming image files. I incorporated the image xxx of xxx in my filenames.

Then they re-did everything and combined and split up the groups in different ways (called way-pointing), and all my image identification scheme became worthless overnight.

Except that I can still find the images on my harddisk.

For awhile this process was expedited by a little program I found which allowed you to download an entire group of images with one command. You just navigated to the first image, started the program, let it run, and made yourself a sandwich. An hour later you'd have 600 images. I accumulated in all about 30,000 images from Aguascalientes and Jalisco. Then somebody discovered what the little program could do and declared it illegal. It doesn't work anymore.

So I've ended up with 30,000 images that cover two-thirds of my needs, and it still saves time, and I have the images even when the internet is down.

Sometimes I wonder if it would ever be worth it to try to correlate those image filenames with the current location on FamilySearch, but history suggests it will just change again. Methinks someone doesn't get the point - each image ought to have a unique permanent number that can always be used to locate the image again - even if the URL itself changes. But I guess the world doesn't think like I do. Frustrating!

Next best thing I guess would be to permanently embed those cited images in my genealogy program. But that takes a lot of space and slows things down. For now, at least I can still find the ones I've downloaded.

Part of my strategy has been to transcribe the relevant part of each image I cite. I've done this from the beginning. That way, even if the image can't be found, at least I can re-read my own transcription.

Stuart Armstrong

Comentario

Hello,
I had the same problem. Frustrating indeed! However if you delete everything past the "?" on the URLs, then you'll arrive to the original page you had bookmarked. You may have to update all your bookmarks, but at least you won't have to hunt them down all over again. Not sure why they did that, but it makes you wonder if we should be saving the actual documents and not just the links to the documents?
Juan

i found this ordenes for an indigenous person

Published by katy_brecht_quesada –
Foros
Genealogy Research

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18379-40861-17?cc=1874591&wc…

Comentarios

Comentario

Very interesting!

It does say his father was "indio cacique" and so was his mother, so it is very possible that they were part of the Indian ruling class of Tonala.

Sergio Salés

Comentario

The most interesting is he is mentioned as theologian and limpio de sangre! What a bizarre, but intriguing find!

Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino

Comentario

it's not the first bizarre thing i found but it's the most intriging though since i thought one had to be 7/8+ spanish descent in order to become a theologian.

a few other bizarre finds i've come accross are:1. a 'mulato esclavo' marrying a spanish woman(can't remember where i found it, but i think it happened during the 1700's. I didn't think a male slave could marry a freed spanish female)
2.A drawing of a lion holding a shield(can't remember where i found it exactly, but i think it may have been in the beginning of soem marriage dispensation collection, just not sure which one)
3. a marriage dispensation simply refering to a common ancestor as 'gachupin europeo' https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18414-94456-29?cc=1874591&wc…

4. a map found within a marriage dispensation collection https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18415-10524-77?cc=1874591&wc…
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18415-10072-96?cc=1874591&wc…

Como se llama el libro de Mario Gomez Mata

Published by Ruben Araiza –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Saludos a todos los que amabalemente contribuyen a fortalecer la historia a traves de sus busquedas.

Comentarios

Comentario

Ruben

Worldcat (www.worldcat.org) lists three books by Mario Gomez Mata:

Apuntes históricos de Teocaltitán de Guadalupe, Jalisco
Bautismos, matrimonios y defunciones, en la primer siglo de Santa Maria de Los Lagos
Esclavitud en Lagos y los afrolaguenses, s. XVI-XIX

By entering your location, Worldcat will name the libraries near you that have these books.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Ana Rodríguez Magdaleno

Published by Armando –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola a todos,

¿Hay alguien que sabe quienes eran los padres de Ana Rodríguez Magdaleno (o
Madaleno o Ana Hernández) que fue esposa de Juan González de Hermosillo?

Hello,

Is there anyone that ha

Comentarios

Comentario

Estimado Armando,

Quisiera saber tu opinión a cuanto la genealogía sobre los Hermosillo. He escuchado varias versiones de su genealogía. Tengo lo siguiente.

González de Hermosillo tiene su nobleza por línea agnada probada donde se encuentra asentados como hijosdalgos en los padrones de Hermosilla. Son hijosdalgo por sangre y linaje.

· Pedro Fernández de Hermosilla
· Alonso de Hermosilla casó a Catalina González hija de Tomás González
· Juan González de Hermosillo c Catalina Ramírez
· Juan González de Hermosillo c Isabel de Escobar hija del Conq. Juan de Burgos
· Juan González de Hermosillo b. 8 de Julio de 1571 en Asunción, Cd. De Méx. Casó a María Muñoz Cabeza de Vaca hija de Francisco Muñoz y de aquí nació la línea alteña.

Déjame saber si hay algún error.

Daniel

Comentario

Estimado Daniel,

Muchas personas y en especial Don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa tiene a los
padres de Juan González de Hermosillo, esposo de María Muñoz, como Juan
González de Hermosillo y Ana Rodríguez Magdaleno (o Madaleno o Ana
Hernández). Aparte Don Guillermo ha escrito bastantes mensajes en busca de
documentos fidedignos sobre los padres del Juan que casó con Ana Rodríguez
Magdaleno y en uno de los mensajes escribió que pensaba que fue el Juan que
fue vecino de la Villa Guadalcanal, España en 1582.
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18947#comment-19622 No se si ha
surgido algún otro dato que lo verifica.
Bueno, la razón que me interesa saber quienes eran los padres de Ana
Rodríguez Magdaleno, aparte de descender de ellla y Juan, es porque hay una
página que los mencionan como Gonzalo Rodríguez Magdaleno y María Hernández
y que Ana nació el 30 enero 1541 en Ciudad de México. Si es así entonces es
probable que son los mismos que eran padres de María Magdaleno Hernández
casada con Cristóbal Pérez López el 19 de diciembre 1577 en Ciudad de
México. Siendo estos padres de María Pérez de Nava que casó con Cristóbal de
Villalobos Sanclares de cuales platicamos hace unos días. Que significaría
que desciendo de Gonzalo Rodríguez Magdaleno y María Hernández dos veces. Lo
que busco son algunas otras pistas o mejor, si es posible, documentos
fidedignos que lo comprueba.

Un saludo.
Armando

2011/10/4 Daniel Mendez de Torres

>
>
>
> Estimado Armando,
>
> Quisiera saber tu opinión a cuanto la genealogía sobre los Hermosillo. He
> escuchado varias versiones de su genealogía. Tengo lo siguiente.
>
> González de Hermosillo tiene su nobleza por línea agnada probada donde se
> encuentra asentados como hijosdalgos en los padrones de Hermosilla. Son
> hijosdalgo por sangre y linaje.
>
> · Pedro Fernández de Hermosilla
> · Alonso de Hermosilla casó a Catalina González hija de Tomás
> González
> · Juan González de Hermosillo c Catalina Ramírez
> · Juan González de Hermosillo c Isabel de Escobar hija del Conq.
> Juan de Burgos
> · Juan González de Hermosillo b. 8 de Julio de 1571 en Asunción, Cd.
> De Méx. Casó a María Muñoz Cabeza de Vaca hija de Francisco Muñoz y de aquí
> nació la línea alteña.
>
> Déjame saber si hay algún error.
>
> Daniel
>

Comentario

Daniel,
Yo soy de la opinion que el patriarca de los Gonzalez de Hermosillo es Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo y que vino de Guadalcanal, España ya casado en 1582 (AGIS) porque aparece ese dato en la solicitud de ordenes mayores de su bisnieto Gonzalo Ramirez de Hermosillo. En ese documento que tengo copia, Domingo de Lomellin, testigo de Gonzalo, dice que "abuelos del dicho gonzalo de hermosillo y que el dicho Juan de acebes era natural de la siudad de mexico y la dicha beatriz de hermosillo era natural desta juridision yja lijitima de Juan gonzales de hermosillo y de ana [maria] muños su lijitima mujer naturales de guadalcanal y se sabe que los susodichos los unos y los otros eran cristianos byejos sin tener Rasa de moros ni de judios....." este documento ya paleografiado lo encontre en la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara.

Otro detalle que me hace pensar que el Juan Glz de Hermosillo del pase a Indias y en el de Jalos son los mismos, en el pase dice que Juan tiene un hermano con nombre de Gonzalo Garcia de Hermosillo, que se encuentra viviendo en las minas de Zacatecas en 1582. La coneccion, Juan y Ana Maria Muñoz en Jalos tuvieron un nieto, que se llama Agustin Garcia de Hermosillo. Creo que Agustin adopto el apellido de su tio Abuelo, Gonzalo Garcia de Hermosillo. Mariano Gonzalez Leal, en su libro Retoños capitulo "Garcia de Hermosillo", no sabe el porque Agustin se llama Garcia y no Gonzalez. Creo con las fuentes primarias que ya mencione contienen la respuesta de la pregunta que Mariano.

Pregunta Daniel, tienes la fuente que Juan Glz de Hemosillo caso con Maria Muñoz Cabeza de Vaca? Ese matrimonio fue en el DF? o en España?

Si Juan Glz de Hermosillo es originario de Guadacanal, segun las declaraciones en el documento, como es posible que el haya sido bautizado en Mexico DF en 1572. Creo son homologos y no la misma persona.

Saludos,

Sergio Gutierrez

Comentario

Sergio,
Podrias darnos la fecha del documento (o el 'link' a la imagen) de ordenacion de ordenes mayores a que te refieres donde se indica el origen en Guadacanal de Juan Gonzalez Hermosillo. Creo que esta es informacion muy util y un documento muy imporatante para todos los que venimos de esa familia.

Saludos

Jaime Alvarado

Comentario

Sergio,

Gracias por el comentario. Yo no había leído bien esa misma respuesta que
habías hecho en otro hilo del tema de los González de Hermosillo. Por lo
mismo no percaté que ya habías aclarado que en esa misma solicitud de
ordenes mayores decía que Juan González de Hermosillo y Ana Muñoz eran
naturales de Guadalcanal. Yo me había fijado en todo de mas en el hilo
pensando que era otro punto que estabas afirmando y no ese. Ya veo que lo
mas probable es que Ana Rodríguez Magdaleno no era madre del genearca de los
González de Hermosillo de Los Altos. Me da pena de no haber entendido esto
antes pero a la vez satisfacción que al fin lo entiendo.

Un saludo cordial
Armando

2011/10/5

> Daniel,
> Yo soy de la opinion que el patriarca de los Gonzalez de Hermosillo es Juan
> Gonzalez de Hermosillo y que vino de Guadalcanal, España ya casado en 1582
> (AGIS) porque aparece ese dato en la solicitud de ordenes mayores de su
> bisnieto Gonzalo Ramirez de Hermosillo. En ese documento que tengo copia,
> Domingo de Lomellin, testigo de Gonzalo, dice que "abuelos del dicho gonzalo
> de hermosillo y que el dicho Juan de acebes era natural de la siudad de
> mexico y la dicha beatriz de hermosillo era natural desta juridision yja
> lijitima de Juan gonzales de hermosillo y de ana [maria] muños su lijitima
> mujer naturales de guadalcanal y se sabe que los susodichos los unos y los
> otros eran cristianos byejos sin tener Rasa de moros ni de judios....." este
> documento ya paleografiado lo encontre en la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara.
>
> Otro detalle que me hace pensar que el Juan Glz de Hermosillo del pase a
> Indias y en el de Jalos son los mismos, en el pase dice que Juan tiene un
> hermano con nombre de Gonzalo Garcia de Hermosillo, que se encuentra
> viviendo en las minas de Zacatecas en 1582. La coneccion, Juan y Ana Maria
> Muñoz en Jalos tuvieron un nieto, que se llama Agustin Garcia de Hermosillo.
> Creo que Agustin adopto el apellido de su tio Abuelo, Gonzalo Garcia de
> Hermosillo. Mariano Gonzalez Leal, en su libro Retoños capitulo "Garcia de
> Hermosillo", no sabe el porque Agustin se llama Garcia y no Gonzalez. Creo
> con las fuentes primarias que ya mencione contienen la respuesta de la
> pregunta que Mariano.
>
> Pregunta Daniel, tienes la fuente que Juan Glz de Hemosillo caso con Maria
> Muñoz Cabeza de Vaca? Ese matrimonio fue en el DF? o en España?
>
> Saludos,
>
> Sergio
> Si Juan Glz de Hermosillo es originario de Guadacanal, segun las
> declaraciones en el documento, como es posible que el haya sido bautizado en
> Mexico DF en 1572. Creo son homologos y no la misma persona.
> Daniel
>
> Sergio Gutierrez
>

Comentario

Gracias a Guilllermo Tovar termine la paleografia del pase a indias de Juan Glz de Hermosillo en 1582

"/1r/
muy Po Sr 1582
Juo gonçalez de hermosilla labrador vzo (vecino) de la villa de guadalcanal dice quel tiene un hermano en la nueva españa en las minas de las çacatecas y a enviado a llamar para acerle algun vien porque el aca padece necesidades suppco a.v. ala [suplico a vuestra alteza] le aga merced de dar licencia para que pueda pasar con sus muger yjos (hijos) atento y que no es de los proyvidos para pasar aquellas partes y en ello rrecibiran merced y que puedan llevar una una moça para su servicio

/2r/
Muy [poderoso señor]
Juan gos dehermosillo Vo de Guadalcanal me dice que el supo a.v. ala [suplicó a vuestra alteza]se le diese licensia pasar a la nueba españa atento que ynbiaba a llamar gonçalo garcia de hermosilla, a v. [vuestra] m. [majestad] mando que diese ynformación; y para que a v.m le conste de como el dho su hrno [hermano] q esta las dhas yndias y le ynbio a llamar ago presentacion de poder a v.m. le supo le mande ber y se le de la dha licena como la tiene pedida lo en lo qual reçibir md.

(notas: Indiferente 2060, N. 138)

Aqui esta la un parte del de los testimonios de la solicitud de Ordenes en 1665, que salio en la revista de Society of Hispanic Historical and Ancestral Research,
Volume V 2003, Edited by Steven F. Hernández

“El Origen de Tres Genearcas Alteñas en una Solicitud de Ordenes del Siglo XVII”, paleografiada por Ing. José Alfonso Rodríguez Ortiz; Solicitud de órdenes de don Gonzalo Ramírez de Hermosillo en 15 de Julio de 1665 en el obispado de Nueva Galicia)

EL TESTIMONIO DE DOMINGO DE LOMELIN, hijo del genearca de los Lomeli en Los Altos, Carlos de Lomellini:
[Al margen] domingo lomellin

Este dicho dia mes y año dicho para Dicha ynformasion queda gonzalo de hermosillo ordenante presento por testigo a domingo de lomellin español vecino desta juridision del cual el dicho Sr bicario Resibyo juramento que hiso por dio nuestro sr y la señal de la crus socargo del cual prometio desir berdad de lo que supiere y se le fuere preguntado y siendole por el tenor del ynteRogatario dijo que conose al dicho gonzalo de hermosillo desde que nasio y sabe ques yjo lijitimo de Sebastian Ramires y de Maria de hermosillo a los cuales bydo casar en esta juridicion y asimismo sabe quel dicho Sebastian Ramirez fue yjo lijitimo de gonzalo Rarmires y de ysabel de mendoza su su lijitima mujer y quel dicho gonzalo Ramires era natural de las españas de San lucar de baRameda Y la dicha ysabel mendoza era yja lijitima de Cristobal de olibares y de mariana de mendoza su lijitima mujer y asi mesmo conosio a Juan de acebes Rascon y a beatriz de hermosillo padres de la dicha Maria de hermosillo y agüelos del dicho gonzalo de hermosillo y que el dicho Juan de acebes era natural de la siudad de mexico y la dicha beatriz de hermosillo era desta juridision yja lijitima de Juan gonzales de hermosillo y de ana munos su mujer naturales de guadalcanal y sabe que los susodichos los unos y los otros son cristianos byejos sin tener Rasa de moros ni de judios y esto lo sabe por las comunicasiones que a tenido con muchas personas de españa que les cono- (7V) sian y asi mesmo sabe que el dicho gonzalo de hermosillo es un onbre byrtuoso y que no ha tenido hasienda a cargo ni administrasion ni a hecho fiansa alguna ni a tenido Regularidad ni ocasionado a otro para que le aya tenido y questo es la berdad para el juramento que tiene fuesele leydo su dicho ques berdad que lo declaro y de nuebo lo jura y se Ratifica…declaro ser de hedad de sincuenta y cuatro años y que aunque le tocan las jenerales del derecho por ser tio del contenido no por eso a dejado de desir berdad y lo firmo con el sr bycario
(rúbricas)

El documento se encuentra en la Sagra Mitra de Guadalajara, y tuve la oportunidad de ojearlo. Asi que si existe. No se donde se encuentra en familysearch.com.

Ojala que les ayude en sus investigaciones,
Saludos
Sergio Gutierrez

Comentario

John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA

Hola Sergio: Me podrias decir como le hiciste para encontrar el archivo de Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo en 1582? Me imagino que fue en PARES, pero lo unico que encuentro es a Juan de Hermosillo, 26 de Mayo, 1515. Padre: Alonso de Hermosillo, Madre: Catalina Gonzalez. Lo que me interesa es que segun leo en el primer renglon de tu paleografia:"Juo Goncalez de Hermosilla labrador,vzo (vecino) de la Villa de Guadalcanal..." Segun entiendo yo, Juan fue originario de Hermosilla, cerca de Burgos y despues fue vecino de Guadalcanal. Lic. Mariano Gonzalez Leal, en su obra: Retoños...
Tomo IV, Volumen 1, pagina 209, ultimo parrafo: ..."Se trata del expediente integrado en 1582 par el pase a Indias de nuestro genearca, y la concesion de licencia para pasar a las minas de Zacatecas a favoe del mismo Juan Gonzalez de Hermosilla-como fue conocido en la peninsula, mientras que en las Indias se le refirio siempre como Gonzalez de Hermosillo, Labrador de la Villa de Guadalcanal, con su mujer hijos y una criada. Venia nuestro genearca a reunirse con su hermano Gonzalo Garcia de Hermosillo, residente de la sazon en las Minas de Los Zacatecas, quien lo habia llamado". En la pagina 210 se hace mencion de que el padre de Gonzalo Garcia de Hermosillo y Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo fue: Gonzalo Garcia de Hermosillo. Al principio yo habia formado mi arbol con Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo, hijo de Alonso de Hermosillo y Catalina Gonzalez, ahora parece ser erroneo...Te agradezco tus comentarios sobre este tema.
ATTE: John Gonzalez
Wildomar CA.
Me puedes contactar directamente a 1gnzlz@verizon.net
Gracias.

i found another capellania

Published by katy_brecht_quesada –
Foros
Genealogy Research

earlier i posted a capellania for nicolas sanchez castellanos, but now i found one for someone named jose leonardo martinez del barragan, who is also from tlaltenango

Comentarios

Comentario

i did figure out how leonardo martinez del barragan fits on my tree(his uncle was a diego martinez del barragan, and diego was already on my tree.diego's wife is maria mayorga. maria's maternal grandma is a sibling to my 9th great grandma leonor chavez)

there are a couple names on that document that i'm not sure how they relate to leonardo martinez del barragan. one of those names is cristobal ortiz.

Comentario

Sanchez-Castellanos

Katy, the wife of my gggggrandfather Thomas de Villanueva Sánchez-Castellanos y Escobedo was Juana Clara Martínez de Barragan Mayorga, they lived in Monte Escobedo and Thomas was the grandson of Nicolas Sánchez-Castellanos.

Antonio Sánchez-Castellanos Marquez de los Olivos was married with María Antonia Martínez de Barragan Mayorga, Antonio was grandson of Nicolas too.

Joseph Geronimo Sánchez-Castellanos Marquez de los Olivos was married ith Luisa Martínez de Barragan Mayorga, Geronimo was grandon of Nicolas.

Joseph Dionisio Sánchez-Castellanos Marquez de los Olivoswas married Ygnes Martínez de Barragan Mayorga, Dionisio was grandson of Nicolas too.

Antonia Gertrudis Sánchez-Castellanos Marquez de los Olivos was married Simon Martínez de Barragan Mayorga, and she was granddaughter of Nicolas.

Maria Cecilia Sánchez-Castellanos Marquez de los Olivos was married Joseph Barragan Mayorga , and she was granddaughter of Nicolas.

Maria Ubalda Sánchez-Castellanos Marquez de los Olivos was married Santiago Martínez de Barragan Mayorga, and she was granddaughter of Nicolas.
and Juana Rita Sánchez-Castellanos Duron was married Pedro Martínez de Barragan Mayorga,and she was granddaughter of Nicolas.

I think they were sons of Diego and Maria but I can check it because I can´t serach it in family search.

Comentario

Hi Juan Francisco,

Could you tell me who the parents are of Thomas de Villanueva Sánchez-Castellanos y Escobedo? Is there a document naming his parents?

Also, I have the same question for Joseph Dionicio Sánchez-Castellanos Marquez de los Olivos and Maria Cecilia Sánchez-Castellanos Marquez de los Olivos. I assume both are the children of Florencio Sánchez-Castellanos and Josefa Marquez de los Olivos. Do you have documents that identify their parents?

Thank you,

Your prima Rosalinda (descendant of the Sánchez-Castellanos)

Comentario

Sanchez-Castellanos

Of course I have them, Thomas de Villanueva was son of Sebastian Sánchez Castellanos y Bañuelos and Juana de Escobedo (maybe Juana de Escobedo y Rosales) and grandson of Nicolas Sánchez-Castellanos de Haro and Maria Bañuelos Benavides.

And you are right the rest are the sons of Florencio an Josepha

There will be another Joseph Reymundo Márquez de los Olivos Sánchez-Castellanos(Colotlan) vecino de Palafox. Viudo de María Dominga de Ledezma y María Margarita Martínez de Barragán Mayorga (Jerez) vecina 3 años de San Antonio. Boda 12 de junio de 1740 Pág. 1141 Reymundo was grandson of Rodrigo sanchez-castellanos de Rodas (son of Manuel Sánchez-Castellanos de Haro)

Comentario

dear juan francisco, i have a question to ask. florencio had a son named antonio martin, who married a maria barragan. this couple had a son named jose trinidad, who then alter married gertrudis jaimes, do you know who gertrudis jaime's grandparents are. the furthest i could trace her line was to her parents diego jaimes and efigenia de la trinidad.

Comentario

Sanchez-Castellanos

Right, I just get this

-------Joseph de la Trinidad Sánchez-Castellanos Martínez de Barragán (1751-¿) Nac. . Pág. 396 (Sta. Ygnés)

But at least in my search in Monte Escobedo I didn´t find any until 1800, but I have this.

-------Juan Joseph Sánchez-Castellanos Martínez de Barragán(santa Ygnés)(AB 1752-¿) y María Gertrudis Jaimes (¿-1794) muere Pág. 2848 Sta. Ygnés.(Teul) (Baltazar Gómez)Boda Monte Escobedo Pág. 57. 11 de abril de 1773
---------María Rosalía Sánchez Jaimes (AB 1776-¿)(Sta. Ygnés) y José Marcial Bañuelos de la Torre (Jerez) Boda Monte Escobedo Pág. 370 a 2 de mayo de 1796
---------María Estefana Sánchez Jaimes (ab 1781-¿) y José Matías Bañuelos de la Torre (Jerez) (ab1778-¿) Boda Monte Escobedo a 2 de mayo de 1796
---------María Antonia Onofre Sánchez-Castellanos Jaimes (1780-¿) Nac. Pág. 935 y José Antonio Bañuelos de la Torre (jerez)(AB 1770-¿) Boda Monte Escobedo Pág. 373 a 2 de mayo de 1796 Monte Escobedo.
---------María Margarita Sanchez-Castellanos Jaimes (1791-¿) nac. Pag 1343en Sta Ynes.

Comentario

yes jose trinidad did have daughters by the names of estefana, rosalia, and antonia. i happen to descend from his daughter antonia.

here's jose trinidad(this doucment refers to him as juan jose)and gertrudis's marriage record

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15212-36909-53?cc=1804458&wc…

Comentario

Sanchez-Castellanos

So, Jose Trinidad and Juan Joseph is the same person!!!! I have it like two different persons.. I hope next saturdai I go to Monte Escobedo to visit the place of my ancestors. And maybe in August 25th I will go to Francisco Sánchez´party. He will be 95 years and is descendent of Florencio Sánchez-Castellanos.

Comentario

cool i wish i could go a visit monte escobedo(plus jerez, tepetongo, tlaltenango,huejucar, and colotlan for that matter).

anyways did juana maria banuelos(spouse of nicolas sanchez castellanos) have any known siblings?

Comentario

cool i wish i could go a visit monte escobedo(plus jerez, tepetongo, tlaltenango,huejucar, and colotlan for that matter).

anyways did juana maria banuelos(spouse of nicolas sanchez castellanos) have any known siblings?

Comentario

Sanchez-Castellanos

She was from El Teul, and if I remember in the Reforma´s war on time of Benito Juarez some files there were destroyed I don´t know the siblings . María Bañuelos Benavides (del Teul) (1652-1728) murió en Monte Escobedo.

Comentario

that's ok i was just curious since i have an ancestor named dionisio banuelos, who might be related to her.

also i've had no luck finding a marriage record to diego jaimes and efigenia de la trinidad.

Comentario

Sanchez-Castellanos
Check this https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NYXN-4J3
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NYXN-4JW
and https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N18K-LV8

The brothers of Maria Bañuelos Benavides wife of Nicolas Sánchez-Castellanos, Joseph,Diego and Pedro

Comentario

Thank you, Juan Francisco.

Do you have marriage records or something like that for Thomas, Joseph Dionicio, and Maria Cecilia?

For Joseph Reymundo, he married 12 de junio 1740. In which town was he married?

Thank you again,

Rosalinda

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sanchez-Castellanos

Of course I have them, Thomas de Villanueva was son of Sebastian Sánchez Castellanos y Bañuelos and Juana de Escobedo (maybe Juana de Escobedo y Rosales) and grandson of Nicolas Sánchez-Castellanos de Haro and Maria Bañuelos Benavides.

And you are right the rest are the sons of Florencio an Josepha

There will be another Joseph Reymundo Márquez de los Olivos Sánchez-Castellanos(Colotlan) vecino de Palafox. Viudo de María Dominga de Ledezma y María Margarita Martínez de Barragán Mayorga (Jerez) vecina 3 años de San Antonio. Boda 12 de junio de 1740 Pág. 1141 Reymundo was grandson of Rodrigo sanchez-castellanos de Rodas (son of Manuel Sánchez-Castellanos de Haro)

Comentario

Sanchez-Castellanos

----- Joseph Dionisio Sánchez-Castellanos Márquez de los Olivos y Ygnés Martínez de Barragán Mayorga (Jerez) Boda 13 de Octubre de 1754 Monte Escobedo Pág. 1375
-------Joseph Ramon Anastacio Sánchez-Castellanos Martínez de Barragán(San Antonio) y María Josepha del Espíritu Santo de Escobedo de Ulloa(ab1771-¿) (Sta. Teresa) Boda Monte Escobedo 8/Feb/1789 Pág. 469

-----María Cecilia Sánchez-Castellanos Márquez de los Olivos (¿-1750)(San Jorge) y Joseph Barragán Mayorga (Jerez) Boda 22 de mayo de 1750 Monte Escobedo Pág..1287

-----Thomas de Villanueva Sánchez-Castellanos de Escobedo (AB 1720-1764) (Sta. Rosa) y Juana Clara Martínez de Barragán Mayorga (?-1749) (Jerez) Boda 12 de junio/1740

Comentario

Thank you so much, Juan Francisco!

I really appreciate the references. I noticed in the marriage record that Joseph Dionicio's parents are noted as Pe... Sanches Castellanos & Maria Theresa Duron. I believe Pe must be Pedro Sanchez Castellanos, son of Nicolas Sanchez Castellanos.

Let me know if you need anything; I have some information on the Sanchez-Castellanos, but perhaps not as much as you do.

Rosalinda

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sanchez-Castellanos
Submitted by juan francisco ... on Mon, 2013-07-15 20:51.

Sanchez-Castellanos

----- Joseph Dionisio Sánchez-Castellanos Márquez de los Olivos y Ygnés Martínez de Barragán Mayorga (Jerez) Boda 13 de Octubre de 1754 Monte Escobedo Pág. 1375
-------Joseph Ramon Anastacio Sánchez-Castellanos Martínez de Barragán(San Antonio) y María Josepha del Espíritu Santo de Escobedo de Ulloa(ab1771-¿) (Sta. Teresa) Boda Monte Escobedo 8/Feb/1789 Pág. 469

-----María Cecilia Sánchez-Castellanos Márquez de los Olivos (¿-1750)(San Jorge) y Joseph Barragán Mayorga (Jerez) Boda 22 de mayo de 1750 Monte Escobedo Pág..1287

-----Thomas de Villanueva Sánchez-Castellanos de Escobedo (AB 1720-1764) (Sta. Rosa) y Juana Clara Martínez de Barragán Mayorga (?-1749) (Jerez) Boda 12 de junio/1740

Comentario

Rosalinda I don't have the answer to your question but I do have many of these Sanchez Castellanos in my files on Rootsweb.com. File name is Mexico, check the index
Linda in B.C.

________________________________
From: "rruizgenealogy@ix.netcom.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:18 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sanchez Castellanos

Hi Juan Francisco,

Could you tell me who the parents are of Thomas de Villanueva Sánchez-Castellanos y Escobedo? Is there a document naming his parents?

Also, I have the same question for Joseph Dionicio Sánchez-Castellanos Marquez de los Olivos and Maria Cecilia Sánchez-Castellanos Marquez de los Olivos. I assume both are the children of Florencio Sánchez-Castellanos and Josefa Marquez de los Olivos. Do you have documents that identify their parents?

Thank you,

Your prima Rosalinda (descendant of the Sánchez-Castellanos)

Comentario

Thank you, Linda. I have checked your records before, but I'll look again, as it's been some time.

Rosalinda

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rosalinda I don't have the answer to your question but I do have many of these Sanchez Castellanos in my files on Rootsweb.com. File name is Mexico, check the index
Linda in B.C.

LUCIO & REYES Introduction to the group

Published by j.lucio –
Foros
Genealogy Research

My name is Joe Lucio and i have been researching my father history for many months now.

Comentarios

Comentario

Joe (Jose) Lucio
just an update in my research family name i'm searching for can also be De Lucio, as i found my grand father name to be Felipe Lucio Calvillo, but also located possible family (De Lucio) any and all help is appreciated. Thank you

Comentario

You might want to look in the 1930 Censo de Mexico in those Towns where
your ancestors are from to try to find your grandparents and siblings with
your GGrandparents. The Censo will tell you the ages of all the family
members so you can narrow down your search in finding marriage, birth,
christening, death records, etc... You might even get lucky and find your
GGGrandparents living in the same household or within the same town with
another family member
On Sep 20, 2013 12:25 AM, wrote:

> My name is Joe Lucio and i have been researching my father history for
> many months now. i have pin pointed the area of Michoacanejo, Tepusco,
> teochaltiche, villa hildago, los pocitos as well as rancho santo, Los
> Garcia. my great grandfathers are Florencio Lucio & Feliciano Reyes my
> great grandmothers M. Santos Calvillo & Clara Calvillo i am assuming their
> births were around the mid 1800's my grandparents are Felipe Lucio & Maria
> Jesus Reyes births cold be Late 1800's My Father is Victoriano Lucio Reyes
> born in los pocitos 1921 also have uncles Irineo 1917 Luis 1913 Sanots 1923
> antonio 1910 silverio unknown and aunt lucia unknown.
>
> I'd appreciate any and all feed back you may have encountered in your
> journey's of researching family history i have been focusing more on my
> great grandparents and grandparent for siblings, birth location, location
> lived in ect.....
>
> I thank you all for taking the time to read my intro to Nuestros Ranchos
> and i look forward in hearing from you.
>

Comentario

Hi and welcome!

I have some Lucios in my family, but from Tepetongo. This is all I really have:

Manuel Lucio
b. abt 1804 Tepetongo, Zac.
m. Maria de Jesus Jaramillo

daughter: Maria de San Pablo Lucio
b. abt 1834
m. Prudencio Salinas
m. Jose Fabian Sebastian Sanchez

Laura Gonzalez

Comentario

Joe (Jose) Lucio
thank you Laura for the info still trying to narrow down the location or locations.

Comentario

Hi Laura, i think we may have a connection as i also have Jaramillo in my family have not made the connection with Manuel but i am still looking

is this website accurate

Published by katy_brecht_quesada –
Foros
Genealogy Research

i found this website focusing on certain lineages from jerez.
http://jerezzacatecas-salvador.blogspot.com/

Comentarios

Comentario

Much of this insight was given by Primo Arturo Ramos, our Nuestros Ranchos moderator. At a Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference about 3 years in San Jose, Ca, he spoke on:

Matrilineal Naming Practices:
why and how family surnames were used.

There will be some or all of the family children who will use only the mother's surname. This is a common practice when the mother's pedigree comes from a wealthy or influential family. There are also some instances where a child's different surname is chosen from another generation. i.e. a grandfather or grandmother of either the father's or mother's pedigree. It was customary to name some of their children after their grandparents; except that they also included their grandparent’s surnames.

So one family's children's surnames could be 2, 3, or more different surnames. And then those children's grandchildren could revert back to their original surname.

Thanks, Arturo! 　

Jose Carlos de Leon

Comentario

basically you guys are saying that's she could possibly be pedro caldera's child, but there's no way of knowing for sure. it's too bad the blog owner hasn't posted in years. i would like to ask him questions, and give him some more info. for example i have some info(on who his parents were, and msome info on his descendants) on florencio sanchez castelallnos that he doesn't have.

Comentario

Katy,

I am going by what Salvador Cabral has on his Geneanet site which includes notes that the blog does not. In his site at http://gw5.geneanet.org/salvadorcabral?lang=es&p=pedro&n=caldera+de+vel… there is mention of a sale of land and cattle brands by Miguel Caldera and that he inherited it from Pedro Caldera and that he sold it to Hernán González and his sister María Cid Caldera who was the wife of said Hernán.

Los Charcos; otro en el atajo que del Fuerte va a Atitanac: Huejuquilla, Juanes, bajo del pueblo de Susticacán, esta venta la ejecutó como heredo de Pedro Caldera y a nombre de Hernán González y de su hermana María Cid Caldera, mujer del dicho Hernán. El capitán Caldera también vendió los hierros de herrar, con su respectiva concesión y titulo dado a principios de 1536 en la ciudad de Guadalajara, en efigie de dos ese en viceversa apuntala das, es decir punto al final. El registro de este hierro tuvo un costo de 6 pesos.

Armando

Comentario

that's interesting how he sold some things that he inherited from his dad to his brother in law. too bad that still doesn't answer the question of if they are full siblings or not. sometimes documents don't specify if two siblings are half or full.

also i thought that maria cid only had one son named pedro. not sure if he's the same one who married ana maria carrillo(if he is, he would have been an old man when he married her).

i do see a few mistakes, for one melchor caldera is listed as a son of pedro caldera on genea net, but his description refers to him as a brother of pedro caldera.

Comentario

No, it doesn't answer if they are full siblings or not. I was already aware documents don't normally specify if siblings are half or full. The chances that you will find the answer to that are very slim.

Even in the old days men would re-marry all the way until they were in their 60's if their wife died. So the age of the husband of Ana María Carrillo shouldn't be an issue unless he was over 80.

I can't comment on Melchor Caldera. I have no idea if there was more than one or not.

Armando

Comentario

i'm not sure if it was hist first marriage or not, but i did find a doucment claiming that he had a 'natural' child before he married ana maria carrillo. i wouldn't be surprised if the scribe made an error and that child was actually a legitimate child from a previous marriage.

if the pedro cid who married ana maria carillo, is the same one mentioned in miguel's will, that would place his birth year somewhere in the 1580's or 1590's

Comentario

Since I don't have this family in my tree or in the tree in any other tree I am investigating I don't have any of this memorized and I can't find mention of one on the Geneanet page. What will are you talking about? Will you provide a link? Do you mean the land sale?

If Pedro Cid, who married Ana María Carrillo, was born about 1585 he would have been 64 when he had his son of the same name in 1649. Men had children even at this age quite often, including my own great-grandfather and a few other ancestors.

The Geneanet pages mentions two dispensas and you mentioned a third in a different thread. Will you post links to the actual documents in this thread? Posting reported trees from the dispensas would be great if you could also do that.

1. Pedro Carlos (de Godoy) Cid y Juana de la Torre. 28 April 1679 Film # 167977 1662-1688
2. Cristobal y Salvadora de Olague 1 feb 1751 Film # 168008 1751
3. ?

Armando

Comentario

i read powell's book again i found a detail i didn't notice before. miguel stated that his nephew pedro would help him out a lot on the job, which would place the pedro in the will's birth year even earlier to the 1570's an possibly 1560's

Comentario

Is Mr. Ramos's presentation in PowerPoint?

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of josecarlos1944@hotmail.com
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:04 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] multi-linear naming practices

Much of this insight was given by Primo Arturo Ramos, our Nuestros Ranchos moderator. At a Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society Conference about 3 years in San Jose, Ca, he spoke on:

Matrilineal Naming Practices:
why and how family surnames were used.

There will be some or all of the family children who will use only the mother's surname. This is a common practice when the mother's pedigree comes from a wealthy or influential family. There are also some instances where a child's different surname is chosen from another generation. i.e. a grandfather or grandmother of either the father's or mother's pedigree. It was customary to name some of their children after their grandparents; except that they also included their grandparent’s surnames.

So one family's children's surnames could be 2, 3, or more different surnames. And then those children's grandchildren could revert back to their original surname.

Thanks, Arturo! 　

Jose Carlos de Leon

Comentario

I can't say if it is accurate or not. Almost all genealogists have made mistakes, not necessarily the one that made the page you are talking about. His name is Salvador Cabral and he used to post here also. He has placed the genealogy on many websites including my favorite - www.geneanet.org

The geneanet page he created on Pedro Caldera and his indian wife is at http://gw5.geneanet.org/salvadorcabral?lang=es;p=pedro;n=caldera+de+vel…

In the pages on the Calderas he cites books by Thomas Hillerkuss as his source of info the following is also found "Otra de estas ventas la efectuó el capitán Miguel Caldera a don Diego de los Ríos Proaño el 31 de agosto de 1586 de las tierras que habí a entre Trujillo y el puesto de Momax, desde Huejuquilla a la Cienega Grande y desde el Tesorero a Tlaltenango, comprendiéndose el sitio d el Llano , Estancia Vieja o Coyotes, dos sitios arriba de la Cienega , otro al pie de la Sierra de Jomulco , Los Charcos; otro en el ataj o que del Fuerte va a Atitanac: Huejuquilla, Juanes, bajo del pueblo de Susticacán, esta venta la ejecuto como heredo de Pedro Caldera y a nombre de Hernán González y de su hermana María Cid Caldera, mujer del dicho Hernán. El capitán Caldera también vendió los hierros de herrar, con su respectiva concesión y titulo dado a principios de 1536 en la ciudad de Guadalajara, en efigie de dos ese en viceversa apuntala das, es decir punto al final. El registro de este hierro tuvo un costo de 6 pesos."

In Mexico there is no such thing as a maiden name. A woman's surname doesn't change with marriage and especially not before the 20th century.

In old Mexico and in old Spain a person with a different surname than a sibling doesn't mean that they aren't full siblings. One could be using a surname of a maternal grandmother or great grandmother. Therefore, Pedro Caldera and Maria Cid having a different surname has no significance whatsoever until more evidence can be found.

edit: In this case it could, or could not be, a maternal grandmother or great grandmother of Pedro Caldera.

Armando

New Documents on Family Search fro Guadalajara

Published by ssales1984 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Just a very quick note to all that the images for the Archdiocese of Guadalajara just got updated a few days ago. It looks to my like some dispensas got added going back to the 1560s.

Comentarios

Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Vie, 2014-03-28 09:21 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Thanks for the info, I finally can access microfilm 168008, Matrimonios 1751, from Guadalajara. For years the corresponding link took to a different microfilm from the USA.

Victoriano Navarro

Fallecimiento del Sr. D. Guillermo Tovar de Teresa

Published by mendezdetorres –
Foros
Announcements and Events

Querido miembros del foro,

Recebí esta noticia dolorosa del Sr. Javier de Castaños y Cañedo, mi colega y el Sr. Rafael Tovar de Teresa, hermano de D. Guillermo.

Comentarios

Comentario

Un momento de silencio con el público de pie en memoria de Guillermo Tovar de Teresa (1956-2013) precedió ayer el concierto de Sor Marie Keyrouz en la Catedral Metropolitana.

La excepcional labor en pro del Centro Histórico que realizó el historiador, coleccionista, bibliófilo y promotor cultural fue recordada por Fernando Estrada.

Christopher Barrios de Leon

Comentario

Carlos Peredo

Es un gusto enterarme de los muy merecidos honores que se le han hecho y continúan haciedose a la obra y la vida de Don Guillermo Tovar de Teresa.

En el encabezado le llamo compañero, -aunque lo apropiado sería llamarle Maestro- ya que él participaba generosamente en este espacio como un compañero más.

Por sus raíces alteñas e hidrocálidas fue pariente de muchos de los integrantes de Nuestros Ranchos entre los que podría contarme ya que su quinta abuela fue Josefa Antonia Peredo y Manrique Malacara la cual descendía según documentos y ejecutorias que Don Guillermo tenía en su poder del Almirante Juan Antonio de Peredo y Santurce de familia procedente de Santillana, lugar del que descendemos la mayoría de los que llevamos este apellido. Honrando la seriedad que ponía Don Guillermo en el tema de la História y la Genealogía, debo decir que aún no he podido probar el parentesco con sus ancestros Peredos, aunque las posibilidades son grandes, comparto con todos la seguridad que él tenía en que tarde o temprano aparecería algún parentesco ya que al revisar los apellidos de mis ascendientes alteños, Don Guillermo comentó que con certeza resultarían uno o varios parentescos y será motivo de una gran alegría si algún día logro probarlo.

Van estas líneas y este recuerdo en honor de un gran estudioso que generosamente compartió los frutos de sus desvelos.

Carlos

Lope ll ruiz de esparza y ana franca gabay navarro de moctezuma

Published by GARY –
Foros
Genealogy Research

hola
un cordial saludo

una pregunta donde puedo encontrar el documento donde se menciona
los padres de lope ll ruiz de esparza?

Comentarios

Comentario

Nothing new here, but I have cleaned up the burial record of my 10th Grand Uncle for whomever would like to copy:

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae280/PappyRod/deEsparzaLupeRuiz-Bur…

also, here is a copy of Jaime Holcome's record sheet:

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae280/PappyRod/AnaFranciscaGabaydeMo…

Happy New Year to all,
Roy

Comentario

DIEZ, MA. DEL CARMEN GALBIS. Page 384, Catalogo de Pasajeros a Indias Durante los siglos XVI, XVII y XVIII. Archivo General de Indias Sevilla. Murcia, Spain: Ministerio de Cultura. 1986. Vol. 7 (1586-1599). 998p.
I want to say that I got this from the Spanish Government's website - Ministerio de Educacíon, Cultura y Deporte http://pares.mcu.es I'm sorry, but I cannot remember the exact document location. Only that I browsed through a lot of stuff to find it.

Scott Stockwell

Comentario

Thanks Scott! With the info you provided, I can try to track it down myself when i have a little more free time between Christmas and new years...there are other names i could look for as well anyways!

Regards,
Denise

Comentario

Hi Denise,

It looks like Scott posted the source earlier in this thread as:

Page 384, Catalogo de Pasajeros a Indias Durante los siglos XVI, XVII y XVIII. Archivo General de Indias Sevilla. Murcia, Spain: Ministerio de Cultura. 1986. Vol. 7 (1586-1599). 998p.

Manny Diez Hermosillo
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/jrefugioghermosillo

Comentario

Buena noche:

Soy pariente de los Ruiz de Esparza, los Ruiz de la Peña, los Femat y los
Valdepeña. Por parte del matrimonio de Manuel Ruiz de Esparza y María Romo
de Vivar y Peguero (Rangel), su hijo Antonio Ruiz de Esparza y Romo de
Vivar, nacido en Aguascalientes en 1675.
Después su matrimonio de Antonio Ruiz de Esparza y Romo de Vivar con María
de la Rosa y Ortiz
Su hijo Trinidad Ruiz de Esparza y Romo de Vivar se casa con Luisa Esparza
en primer matrimonio sus hijos
Froylan
Ciriaco
José Placido
José Anacleto Ramón
José Sinecio

Yo poseo poca información de ellos, la cual ofrezco con gusto, aunque es
muy posible que ustedes tengan más de ella.

Saludos.

José Julio Colón Corona

2013-12-12 11:03 GMT-06:00 :

> Edgar Olguin Diaz
> hola amigos
> documento lope ruiz de esparza
> de que año es el documento?
> 1553 o 1593???

Comentario

Julio,
Soy pariente muy cercano de los Ruiz de la Peña, ellos enlazaron con mi familia materna Camino. No me recuerdo si ya hemos abordado sobre el tema, ya que estuve ausente de temas genealógicos los últimos dos años. Pude trabajar a los pocos, mas ahora me dedico aún más en mi tiempo libre. Cualquier cosa siempre me puedes escribir a mi correo electrónico.
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino

Comentario

Hola Daniel:
Muchas gracias.

Mi mamá está recopilando la información, pero no quiere aprender a usar la
computadora, es por ello que le ayudo, aunque me está interesando conocer
mis raíces.

Por lo que platica mi mamá es que mi visabuelo llegó a aguascalientes,
siendo mecánico ferrocarrilero, de alguna manera conoció y se casó con
Elvira Esparza (Ruíz de Esparza) Ruíz de la Peña y se mudaron, llegando
hasta Toluca, donde se establecieron con mi abuelo y sus hermanos y aquí
continuamos.

Te adjunto el archivo con la información que ha podido recopilar mi mamá
con su prima, si me puedes ayudar complementándola, te agradecería mucho
junto con mi mamá.

Muchas gracias y continuamos en contacto

Saludos.

José Julio Colón Corona

El 21 de marzo de 2014, 16:39, Daniel Alejandro Méndez de Torres y Camino <
mendezdetorres@hotmail.com> escribió:

> Julio,
> Soy pariente muy cercano de los Ruiz de la Peña, ellos enlazaron con mi
> familia materna Camino. No me recuerdo si ya hemos abordado sobre el tema,
> ya que estuve ausente de temas genealógicos los últimos dos años. Pude
> trabajar a los pocos, mas ahora me dedico aún más en mi tiempo libre.
> Cualquier cosa siempre me puedes escribir a mi correo electrónico.
> Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino
>
>

Comentario

Hi José Julio

There is some good information on the Femat family in this forum. If you put "Femat" in the search field, you will get to the messages in Nuestros Ranchos about this family, including how it links up with the Romo de Vivar family. I descend from Raphael Femat (who also used the name Raphael Romo and Raphael Romo de Vivar), and his first wife Raphaela Aguila.

Regards
Denise

Comentario

Page 384, Catalogo de Pasajeros a Indias Durante los siglos XVI, XVII y XVIII. Archivo General de Indias Sevilla. Murcia, Spain: Ministerio de Cultura. 1986. Vol. 7 (1586-1599). 998p.
This is a document that names Lope's parents.
I found the document online, but I do not remember where. There is a copy of the document on my Ancestry.com tree (Ruiz de Esparza Family Tree, owner: ScottStockwell62) among the images for Lope Ruiz de Esparza (Arrival).
Or send a message to me at musettafan@yahoo.com and I will email the image to you.
-Scott Stockwell

Comentario

Edgar Olguin Diaz
hola scottstockwell62
un cordial saludo

amigo como puedo encontrar esa pagina donde pueda encontrar ese documento?

tienes una copia de ese documento ? me lo podrias mandar si no es mucha molestia amigo te lo agradeceria mucho

este es mi correo edgar_eemo@hotmail.com
si acaso tienes este documento y me lo mandas dejame un mensaje por este medio .

mil gracias
que tengas un excelente dia estamos en contacto

Comentario

Edgar Olguin Diaz
hola scott

amigo ya tengo el documento en mis manos
me emocione mucho cuando vi este docuemnto
te lo agradezco mucho me salvaste
con este documento ya puedo comprobar los padres de lopez ruis de esparsa
que dios te llene de bendiciones
mil gracias
que tengas un excelente dia
una feliz navidad
dios te bendiga
estamos en contacto
buen dia
saludos
bye

Comentario

Hi Scott

I was wondering if maybe it would an idea to have these docs filed in the file here at NR for petronila de moctezuma or perhaps start a separate fle on lope ruiz de esparza. That way you dont risk getting bombarded with requests that you email the images., since a lot of people are descended from him. I too was going to ask for a copy... and then I thought maybe a lot of people have done that recently....what do you think?

Regards
Denise

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