Nuestros Ranchos Site

Agustin:

Have you used the films section in the site yet? The search that Jonathan did for you can easily be done by simply going to the "Films" area, then clicking on Jalisco, then on Totatiche or Colotlan as the case may be and then finding the appropriate film, i.e. Marriages 1847-1856 or Baptisms 1756-1797, etc. If there is an "IGI" or "VRI" button next to the film information, that means the film is indexed on familysearch.org so you can simply click on the button and it will give you a listing of everything that is on the film. You can then click on the "Refine Search" link on the upper right and enter as little or as much information as you like to narrow down the search.

So if you went and picked the marriages film from Colotlan for the appropriate year, then simply entered "Mota" as the last name you would find the marriage record that Jonathan mentions. Unfortunately whomever extracted that film did not list parents so you have to order the film in order to get one generation back.

There is this record on IGI as well which may be worth looking at but only after you can ascertain that it is indeed the same Francisca Herrera from the marriage document in Colotlan:

Francisca De Luna Herrera
Birth: About 1846 Santo Tomas, Momax, Zacatecas, Mexico
Parents:
Father: Ramon Herrera
Mother: Maria Felipa De Luna

Which family history center have you been trying to use? These are the ones listed for your area. Santa Rosa is less than 20 miles and has pretty extensive hours.

Cloverdale California
1011 So Cloverdale Blvd
Cloverdale, Sonoma, California, United States
Phone: 707-894-9238
Hours: W 10am-7pm
Closed: Closed the last two weeks of December.

Santa Rosa California
1725 Peterson Lane
Santa Rosa, Sonoma, California, United States
Phone: 707-525-0399
Hours: M,W 1pm-5pm; T 1pm-9pm; Th 9am-5pm; Sat 9am-1pm
Closed: 1st Sat in April & Oct; Memorial Day; Labor Day Sat-Mon; July 4th week; Thanksgiving week

Sea Ranch California
45500 Pacific Woods Road
Gualala, Sonoma, California, United States
Phone: 707-884-3255
Hours: M-F By appt

Sonoma California
16280 La Grama
Agua Caliente, Sonoma, California, United States
Phone: 707-996-2369
Hours: T,Th 9am-5pm

Agustin,

Are you sure that, your Mota line is from Totatiche. I did a quick search
for Vicente and Francisca in Totatiche and found nothing. But I found a
Vicente Mota that married a Francisca Herrera, on 20 Apr 1853, in Colotlan,
Jalisco. With the following children:

Maria Sotera Mota Herrera born: 23 Apr 1854 Colotlan
Jose Merced Mota Herrera born: 24 Sep 1855 Colotlan
Severa Mota Herrera born: 09 Nov 1857 Colotlan
Agustin Mota Herrera born: 28 Aug 1862 Colotlan
Dominga Mota Herrera born: 06 Aug 1865 Colotlan
Gregoria Mota Herrera born: 11 Sep 1868 Colotlan
Maria Mota Herrera Born: 14 Jun 1871 Colotlan

If this is your family, I would suggest looking at the children's
christening records, your can get the film numbers from the IGI at Family
Search.org. Also I would suggest looking the marriage record for Vicente
and Francisca (film number: 0443785) and the Informacion Matrimonial films
(film numbers: 0443718 and 0443719).

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of agustin
mota
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 10:23 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] best sites for reasearch

agustin mota wrote: hello evryone i find
myself stuck in my familt reasearch. can somene help? what i need is
information for my mota line. i am up to 1862 with agustin mota.next would
be vicente mota apr,1840 and francisca herrera husband and wife from
totatiche jalisco. i am looking for guidence.the famiy reaseach facility in
my area for some reason is closed. thank you for youre support. agustin

---------------------------------
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Agustin,

Are you sure that, your Mota line is from Totatiche. I did a quick search for Vicente and Francisca in Totatiche and found nothing. But I found a Vicente Mota that married a Francisca Herrera, on 20 Apr 1853, in Colotlan, Jalisco. With the following children:

Maria Sotera Mota Herrera born: 23 Apr 1854 Colotlan
Jose Merced Mota Herrera born: 24 Sep 1855 Colotlan
Severa Mota Herrera born: 09 Nov 1857 Colotlan
Agustin Mota Herrera born: 28 Aug 1862 Colotlan
Dominga Mota Herrera born: 06 Aug 1865 Colotlan
Gregoria Mota Herrera born: 11 Sep 1868 Colotlan
Maria Mota Herrera born: 14 Jun 1871 Colotlan

If this is your family, I would suggest looking at the children's christening records, your can get the film numbers from the IGI at Family Search.org. Also I would suggest looking the marriage record for Vicente and Francisca (film number: 0443785) and the Informacion Matrimonial films (film numbers: 0443718 and 0443719).

Jonathan

Arturo,

I would be glad to help out.

Jonathan

Dear Joseph--

I have lots of Navarros in Ocotlan but none with the
names you listed. Can you give me some dates on any
of your people? The Navarros I have go back to and
beyond Cayetano Navarro bap. 5 Jun 1697 in Santa
Clara, Ocotlan, Jalisco, son of Luis Navarro Gaytan &
Ysabel Orosco.

Cayetano Navarro was married twice. His first wife
was Maria Juana Hurtado de Mendoza and they wed 6 Feb
1721 in Ocotlan. The second was Maria Margarita
Ornelas born abt 1707 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco. The
second wife was the daughter of Juan Antonio Ornelas y
Mendoza and Felipa Gertrudis Aceves. Felipa was from
Ayo el Chico/ or as is named now, Ayotlan, Jalisco.

Sincerely,
Patricia Diane Godinez/ Burton
San Diego

--- Joseph Puentes wrote:

>
> Subject:
> Navarro, DNA, Cepeda, Saucedo, Saravia
> From:
> victorianonavarro
> Date:
> Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:15:53 -0800 (PST)
>
> To:
> research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>
>
>
> Hi, I'm looking for genealogical and biographical
> information regarding
> Victoriano Navarro, his parents Domingo Navarro &
> María Encarnación
> Cepeda, and his grandparents José María Navarro &
> Fernanda Saravia and
> Rafael Cepeda & Rosa Saucedo.
> Victoriano Navarro was from Ocotlán, Jalisco. He and
> his son José
> Guadalupe moved to Coahuila.
> On 1835 he married Victoriana Elizondo (widow,
> great-grandmother of
> President Madero). They had three children: Ma.
> Refugio, Ma. Isabel and
> Raymundo.
> After Victoriana died, he married her niece Ma.
> Manuela de la Garza and
> they had six children: Ma Isabel, Victoriana,
> Serapia, Luís Manuel (4th
> Mayor of Torreón), Beatriz and Gilberto.
> He died on 1873.
> Y-DNA testing indicates this Navarro lineage belongs
> to Haplogroup
> R1b1c, which originated among the Cro-Magnon men who
> populated Europe
> about 30 thousand years ago.
> I'd appreciate any information on these families.
>
> Hola, estoy buscando información biográfica y
> genealógica referente a
> Victoriano Navarro, sus padres Domingo Navarro &
> María Encarnación
> Cepeda, y sus abuelos José María Navarro & Fernanda
> Saravia y Rafael
> Cepeda & Rosa Saucedo.
> Victoriano Navarro era originario de Ocotlán,
> Jalisco y se mudó a
> Coahuila junto con su hijo José Guadalupe.
> En 1835 se casó con Victoriana Elizondo viuda de
> Madero (bisabuela del
> Presidente Madero)y tuvieron tres hijos: Ma.
> Refugio, Ma. Isabel y
> Raymundo.
> Luego de enviudar de Victoriana, se casó con la
> sobrina de ésta, Ma.
> Manuela de la Garza, y tuvieron seis hijos: Ma
> Isabel, Victoriana,
> Serapia, Luís Manuel (4º Presidente Municipal de
> Torreón), Beatriz y
> Gilberto.
> Murió en 1873.
> Pruebas genéticas del cromosoma Y indican que ésta
> rama de la familia
> Navarro pertenece al haplogrupo R1b1c, mismo que se
> originó hace unos 30
> mil años entre los hombres de Cro-Magnon que
> poblaron Europa hace uso 30
> mil años.
> Agradezco cualquier información sobre éstas
> familias.

I am also in the R1b1c haplogroup. I am under the impression that there is much ongoing debate about the "origins" of this haplogroup. What is your source regarding the "30,000 years ago" origin in Cro-Magnon man? Thanks in advance,
Lobobravo

Arturo,
Thanks for sharing your awesome photos from your recent trip to Mexico. That was some mezquite!

Thanks again,

Natalie

Just a suggestion: with requests like this you might have better success
if you create a word file with the "extension" or added material. Then
put the "Word" file in your folder. Then in this email put the URL
(address to your folder) so we can see exactly what the new material is
and those that have Esparza's can better coment. Like I said it was only
a suggestion.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

mormonboy74 wrote:
> I have extended my Esparza line in Zacatecas I have a Francisco Esparza (b. abt 1830) and his wife Maria Luz Avila (b. abt 1835) if anyone can help me please contact me at my email: mormonboy74@hotmail.com THanks.

Joseph, primero saludarte y despues pedirte me ayudes en como poder traducir a espanol los correos de todos los miembros del grupo. En lo personal me ha servido bastante entrar a los archivos sobre bautizos, matrimonios,etc., pero me cuesta trabajo entender lo que escriben los demas y quisiera poder participar ayudando a los demas. Que programas pueden ayudarme a traducir los correos de yahoo. Al igual que no me vayan a dejar fuera, en otro correo enviare los nombres de mi familia que he encontrado, a la vez que espero poder ayudar a otros en al busqueda de sus ancestros. Saludos a todos los miembros y gracias por comprenderme.

Joseph Puentes escribió:
there seems to be some confusion both with the new members and the ol
members so I am going to attempt to clear it up.

To be a life time member of the group all you have to do is submit a
representative tree _once_ (only once) and nothing else will be required
of you ever (and ever).

So I don't want you all to think I'm going to be asking for more and
more and more. Just meet the initial requirement and you're in, end of
story.

HOWEVER (however's are just like but's) however nothing says that you
all can't go wild and VOLUNTARILY upgrade and submit new files to your
folders. That is strictly on a volunteer basis.

On a related note I would ask you one favor please. If you have sent in
your genealogy and are now set for life then please wait until Feb 14th
or later before upgrading or submitting new genealogies. I'm going to
have my hands extremely full checking everyones folder and see who has
and hasn't submitted genealogies so I can be ready for the big cut on
Feb 1, 2007

I hope that clears things up. Also if you are unsure if you have or
haven't submitted a genealogy (hmmm) well here is how to find out: go to
nuestrosranchos.org and log in, then go to the files and under members
genealogies see if you have a folder in that long list. If you do the
click on it and see if you have a genealogy file/report in there or a
link to your online work. If you have something in the folder as in a
file or report you're set if not but have submitted a gedcom you're set.
If you haven't submitted a report/file and have no link to your online
work or have not sent in your gedcom then you're falling short of
meeting the requirement and will be unsubscribed on 01 Feb 2007

email me at makas@nc.rr.com if you have any questions but IF you know
you've submitted something just confirm it for yourself.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Ask them What are the oldest maps they have of Jalisco, Zacatecas,
and/or Aguascalientes.

Ask them if they have a map copying service as in putting them on CD or
a hard copy?

Ask them if they have on-line Finding Aids for their various collections
or if they have finding aids for sale that are on CD.

Ask them if they offer services through the mail or by the internet for
photocopying or other look up services

Ask them for contact information that we can post to the website

thanks much I wish I could go with you all,

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Alicia Carrillo wrote:
> Dear Ranchos members,
>
> Tomorrow the Northern California group of Ranchos is going on a Genealogical tour of the Bancroft Library in Berkeley Calif. Maria Cortez has made arrangements with the curator of the Western Americana collection for a tour, thank you Maria.
>
> If anyone has a specific request or lookup, please let us know so we may put it on our radar. Sorry for the late notice, should have sent it sooner. We leave early in the morning, that means you must submit your request by this evening and we will try to accomodate your request.
>
> Alicia Carrillo,
> San Jose, Calif

Thanks Emilie for this. For those that aren't already doing so you need
to add details to your individuals and above all REFERENCE where you
found the information so others can come behind you and REPRODUCE and
CONFIRM your findings and more importantly carry them further. You need
to build a good foundation. Even if you are starting with Oral History
you need to reference the person who told it to you, when, what age they
were, where they told it to you, basically everything about that person
including the relationship to you.

joseph

===================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History)

Emilie Garcia wrote:
> On the subject of building accurate, easy to follow pedigrees:
>
> The following is an excerpt from the latest newsletter from Pat Gooldy of Ye Olde Genealogy Shoppe in Indiana:
>
> "One of the pitfalls in searching huge databases is the peril of finding a name and assuming that is the individual for which you are searching when indeed that gentleman is not the right age, not in the right place, and indeed, is not related to your fellow at all. That only leads to mythology, not genealogy, and many miffed and confused descendants wondering why they can not follow the scenario for the family you have built. You are building not a pedigree, but a nightmare for your descendants.
>
> Genealogy means many small steps taken in the effort to build a pedigree. Each step must be tested in many ways to be sure it is not a mis-step. The larger the database, the more options you have, but also the more risk of making a mistake".
>
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA ----

Aqui les doy un vinculo a un sitio muy bueno (GenArgentina) que explica en castellano varios sistemas estandares de representar y organizar datos genealogicos.

http://www.genargentina.com.ar/genealogia/sistemas_numeracion.htm

He puesto el vinculo en la lista de vinculos del sitio nuestrosranchos.org

Ahi pueden ver como funciona el sistema Sosa-Stradonitz o Ahnentafel asi como el de registro, y otros menos usados.

Tambien pueden ver un ejemplo del reporte Ahnentafel de mi abuelo paterno en el sitio de mi familia:

http://www.ramosfamily.org/nextgen/ahnentafel.php?personID=I251&generat…

Carlos,

Bienvenido al grupo y gracias por compartir tu informacion.

Me gustaria sugerirte a ti y a otros miembros principiantes del grupo que se familiaricen con formatos estandar de exponer datos genealogicos tal como las tablas Anhentafel o los formatos de registro. Estos reportes se pueden producir automaticamente por software tal como PAF que se puede descargar gratuitamente.

Es muy util para que otros puedan entender las relaciones entre las personas cuya informacion se expone facilmente. Ademas dan una estructura para exponer datos bastante importantes tal como fechas de nacimiento, bautismo, matrimonio, fallecimiento asi como lugares de estos eventos. Sin fechas ni lugares, no son muy utiles los nombres.

Tambien me gustaria recordarles a todos que no se permite poner informacion sobre personas vivas en el sitio y no se recomienda poner informacion genealogica sobre personas recien falleciadas en la lista, ya que todo queda expuesto al publico y esta informacion se puede usar para cometer fraude y robo de indentidad.

Por favor pongan su informacion (lo mas completa y organizada que puedan) en su carpeta de genealogia personal. Ahi (y no en los mensajes de la lista) es donde los miembros buscamos esta informacion y ahi queda restringido el acceso a la informacion solamente a la miembresia.

Gracias y de nuevo bienvenido. Espero que podamos ayudarte en avanzar tus investigaciones.

Hola Maureen:

No hablo ni escribo el ingles muy bien, disculpa que te escriba en
español,
lei tu mensaje de abajo, y resulta que todos estos Gutierrez que mencionas
son mi familia, ya que Teodoro Gutierrez Flores era mi Tio Bisabuelo,
hermano
de mi Bisabuelo Gil Gutierrez Flores, todos ellos miembros de la gran
familia
de los Gutierrez de Mendoza.
Tengo varios datos que te doy a continuacion y que con ellos se
complete un
poco mas la genealogia de los Gutierrez de Mendoza:

Mi Tio Bisabuelo Teodoro Gutierrez nacio el 29-Oct-1862 en San Miguel El
Alto,
Jal. y se caso con Petra Jauregui Gonzalez (no tengo su fecha de nacimiento)
el
29-Oct-1883 en Nuestra SEñora de la Asunción, Jalostotitlan, Jal.Petra era
hija de
Elias Jauregui Iñiguez y Mateana Gonzalez de la Torre, nieta via Paterna de
Lugardo
Jauregui y Felipa Iñiguez y por via materna de Antonio Gonzalez y Juliana de
la
Torre.
Mi Tio Bisabuelo Teodoro se caso en segundas nupcias con Damiana de la
torre
Guzman el 28-Ene-1920 en Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco :
aqui transcribo esta fe de matrimonio:

Registro Civil: Acta de matrimonio= Libro de Matrimonios de Valle
de Guadalupe, Jal. del año de 1920.
Oficina# 1 Unica, Libro# 1 Unico,
Pagina# 02 Fte.
Acta# 01.,Fecha=
Fue Vista el Lun-26-Ene-2004.

El Acta Dice: Al Margen: =-Acta No. 1-
-Número uno-
-Año de 1920, Enero-
-Presentación de Teodoro Gutiérrez y-
-Damiana de la Torre-=
Dentro Dice: = En el Valle de Guadalupe, a las 5 cinco de la tarde del
día
1o. primero de Enero de 1920 mil novecientos veinte, ante el comisario
---
Municipal que suscribe, encargado del Registro Civil, comparecieron el
---
ciudadano Teodoro Gutiérrez y la Señora Damiana de la Torre, ambos
-------
mexicanos, de raza blanca y de religión catolica y dijeron: que estan
por-
unirse en matrimonio, bajo las formalidades establecidas por la ley y se
-
presentan ante esta oficina a fin de que se les autorice el contrato que
-
tienen celebrado, manifesto el primero ser viudo en primeas nupcias de
---
Petra Jáuregi, sepultada en este panteón hace 13 trece años, según
-------
certificado que presenta, de 56 cincuenta y seis años, vecino de este
----
lugar, hijo legítimo de Guadalupe Gutiérrez y Dolores Flores, finados,
---
ambos de raza mezclada, de nacionalidad mexicana, la segunda manifesto
ser
celibe, digo viuda de Maximino Ponce,sepultado en el panteon de
Tepatitlán
consta por el certificad de Defunción que presentó, de 40 cuarenta años,
-
originaria y vecina de este lugar, hija de Placido de la Torre y de
Luisa-
Guzmán, finados, ambos de nacionalidad Mexicana y de raza
blanca,agregaron
que para manifestar su aptitiud legal para contraer matrimonio,
presentan-
por testigos, por parte del pretenso a los señores Francisco Ornelas y
---
Policarpio Renteria y la pretensa a Apolonio Gutiérrez y Eliodoro
Lomelí,-
todos casados, mayores de edad, labradores y de esta vecindad, cuyos
-----
testigos encaminados convenientemente declararon conocer a los
interesados
que les consta no tienen impedimento para contraer el matrimonio al que
--
aspiran, y que han vivido los ultios 6 seis meses en este lugar,no se
hace
relación del consentimiento paterno por ser mayores de edad, en tal
virtud
la presente autoridad dispuso se hicieran las publicaciones según lo
-----
previene el articulo 110 ciento diez del Código Civil, con lo que
concluyó
la presente acta, conformes con su contenido leido que les fue,no
firmaron
por no saber.=
Firmado: =Rafael R. González= Rubrica.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Por lo escrito en el anterior acta, Petra Jauregui debio morir
aproximadamente

en 1907 en Valle de Guadalupe.

Hijos de Petra y Teodoro tengo registrados a: Gregorio nacido el
25.May-1889

en Valle de Guadalupe, Emilio y Rito nacidos el 22-May-1893 en Valle,
Margarita,

Casiana, Agapita, Enriqueta, Juan, Perfecta y Virginia.

De su segundo matrimonio he encontrado el nacimiento de Rafael el
24-Oct-1919

en Valle, donde dice que es el segundo hijo de la pareja, por lo que por lo
menos hubo 2 hijosde este segundo matrimonio.
La Genealogia Ascendente de Teodoro Gutierrez es la mia propia por esta
rama:
Tedoro hijo de Jose Guadalupe Gutierrez de Alba nacido el 13-Jun-1813 en
Tepa, muerto despues de 1885 y de Maria Dolores Flores Torres nacida aprox.
en 1826
en Cerro Gordo, Tepa, Jal., muerta entre 1866 y 1844, casados el 26-May-1841
en
San Miguel El Alto, Jal.
Padres de Jose Guadalupe: Juan Gutierrez Macias nacido el 3-Sep-1780 en
San Miguel El Alto, muerto despues de Mayo de 1841 y Dolores de Alba Gomez
nacida el 15-Jul-1787 en Tepa, muerta entre 1828 y 1841, casados el
30-Abr-1806
en Tepa.
Padres de Ma. Dolores Flores: Jose Maria Flores Franco y Maria de Jesus
Torres Castellano.
Padres de Juan Gtz. Macias: Antonio Rafael Gutierrez Delgadillo nacido
en
Mzo-1733 en Jalos, muerto despues de 1793 y Maria Feliciana de los Dolores
Macias Valadez y Martin del Campo, casados el 20-Feb-1764 en San Juan de
los Lagos, Jal.
Padres de Dolores de Alba Gomez: Juan Jose de Alba de la Mora y Maria
Isidora Gomez Hurtado de Mendoza y Martin del Campo, casados el
11-Feb-1772 en Tepa.
Padres de Antonio Rafael : Juan de Dios Gtz. Galvan de Rojas nacido
Aprox.
en 1691 en Jalos y Petronila Delgadillo Ramirez de Mendoza casados el
29-Ene-1714 en Jalos.
Padres de JUan de Dios: Juan Gutierrez de Mendoza y Camacho Riquelme
nacido Aprox. en 1657 en Jalos y Juana Antonia Galvan de Rojas, casados el
27-Jun-1691 en San Pedro Piedra Gorda, Ciudad Manuel Doblado, Guanajuato.
Padres de Juan Gtz.: Juan Gutierrez de Mendoza y Ana Camacho
Riquelme
casados Aprox. en 1642 en Jalos.
Padres de Juan Gtz.: el Capitan Francisco Gutierrez Rubio nacido
Aprox. en
1595 en Jalos y Francisca Hurtado de Mendoza y Olivares nacida Aprox. en
1599
en Jalos.
Padres del Cap. Fco. Gtz.: Francisco Gutierrez Rubio nacido Aprox.
en 1551
y Ana Gonzalez Florida nacida Aprox. en 1555 yn Lagos, casados Aprox. en
1576
en Lagos.
Padres de Francisco Gtz.: Diego Gonzalez de Hermosillo, nacido
Aprox. en
1555 y Maria Rubio.

Yo tambien quisiera que me escribieran los descendientes de mi Tio
Bisabuelo
Teodoro Gutierrez Flores, y ojala tengan mas datos y Fotos de la familia.

Saludos desde Guadalajara:

Tomas Alejandro Villegas Gomez.

2007/1/12, Maureen Bejar :
>
>
> While we are on the Gutierres or Gutierrez family, I have a
> question. Someone entered into the LDS site a Gregorio Gutierrez Jauregui
> born May 25, 1889 in Valle de Guadalupe to Teodoro Gutierrez and Petra
> Jauregui. However, no information was on the 2002 Ancestral file and the
> message on the record say no additional information is available. Does this
> belong to anyone in the group?
>
> Other children born to Teodoro and Petra are:
>
> Casiana b. 1884 San Miguel El Alto, Rancho La Mesa, married to Atilano
> Baragas and their children born in
> Valle de Guadalupe.
> Francisca b. 1888 San Miguel El Alto, Rancho Sobera
> Enriqueta b. 1905 Valle de Guadalupe
> Virginia ???? (her children born in Valle de Guadalupe and she was
> married to Espiridion Casillas)
> Perfecta ??? (her children born in Valle de Guadalupe and she was married
> to Leon Casillas)
>
> I am asking as Petra Jauregui is Catarina Jauregui's (possibly from Ojo de
> Agua?) sister. I estimate that Petra Jauregui and Teodoro Gutierrez were
> married in early 1880's in San Miguel, but have not found the marriage as of
> yet. Would love to hook up with the submitter of Gregorio Gutierrez! By
> the way, the early 1800's records from San Miguel El Alto that I am viewing
> have oodles of births from Rancho Ojo de Agua, but so far no Jauregui's and
> I am about half way through the film. If anyone needs a record from the
> baptisms 1821-1832 San Miguel El Alto, let me know I would be happy to print
> it and scan it. Right now the printer at the LDS FHC is broken, but they
> are waiting on a new machine, so it may take a little bit.
>
> Maureen Bejar

Patricia -

Thanks for that great article with all those photos. My husband's ancestors, the Villalobos, Morones, and Peres were from Ayo El Chico, now Ayotlan. I printed out the article and most of the photos for him.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
From: patricia burton
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:07 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ayotlan, Santa Rita, Jalisco

Dear Group--

I came across this site on Wednesday--

http://www.stormlake.com/mexico/index.htm

which shows Santa Rita, Jalisco, where my husband was
born. Apparently a delegation of people came from
Iowa in 2005 to visit. I know that there are a few
people who are researching in Ayotlan, which is also
featured, so this might be of interest to them.

On our trip to Santa Rita in December, I took quite a
few pictures. If you would be interested in seeing
what the land looks like around Santa Rita and this
part of los Altos, send me an email at
canprin@yahoo.com.

Sincerely,
Patricia Diane Godinez
AKA Patricia Burton

Joseph:

I think genealogical standards would require that people list ancestors' names the way that they listed them themselves. Even spellings should ideally be kept in the original. (Obviously there are many cases where different priests would spell the same name differently so then we are forced to choose).

Thus in modern times, anyone born in Mexico has the naming convention of which you speak, which I think is actually by law Given Name(s), Paternal Last Name, Maternal Last Name.

However, this is a recent convention as as you go back in time you will find that people often used their maternal last names, often even the surname of a grandparent not borne by either of the parents. In such cases, we need to keep to the naming conventions of the time and use the names actually used by the person.

See the thread about this at:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15108

Yolanda:

It is highly unlikely that people did not baptize their children, even if they were poor, even if they had to go far to the church and even if they moved around a lot. Until the civil registry was instituted, it was the only legal recordation of someone's birth and people in Mexico were very devout. I am always amazed when I see a baptism of a four or five day old child from the 1700s who was baptized 20 or 30 miles from the rancho where he was born.

Sierra Mojada was a municipality in the district of Monclava, Coahuila according to Cuba's Diccionario Geografico. The town was founded in 1879 due to the discovery of silver and copper deposits in the area. At the time of Cuba's books publication the population was 1879 inhabitants... which is sizeable.

The civil registry for the year that your gradfather was born exists on film:
Nacimientos 1901-1906 FHL INTL Film 1101607 and there is a great possibility it lists his grandparents' names.

Check out this link. I think that if you can get in touch with this man, he may be able to help you find records. I have a suspicion that the Family History Library doesn't have church records for the area, but that does not mean they do not exist. There is definitely a church in the town and the population exploded in the 1890s to over 10,000 people... they could not have gone without a church with that population:

http://www.coahuila.gob.mx/conozca/hub.php/cronistas-coahuilenses/sierr…

Yolanda:

If you have credible evidence that Blas Gutierrez was born in La Sauceda de la Borda, Zacatecas, then you should start by identifying what church he might have been baptized in. La Sauceda used to be a municipality in Zacatecas (look at the Cubas Diccionario Geografico from the links section of the site and look up simply "Sauceda"). There is no such municipality now, though from my meager research it looks like La Sauceda would now be part of Veta Grande.

If you look in the familysearch.org website and look up Sauceda de la Borda, you will note that the local parish is San Juan Bautista and that they have the following films for the region:

Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1861-1862, 1867- 1869, 1876-1884
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1884-1896
Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1896-1917
Información matrimonial 1869-1871, 1877-1880
Información matrimonial 1880-1884
Información matrimonial 1884-1889
Información matrimonial 1890-1900

That means that the parrish did not exist when your ancestor was born in 1844 and he would have had to been baptized in a nearby town's parrish... perhaps Panuco or Vetagrande?

Vetagrande's records begin in 1756 but they are missing baptism records for the 1840 and 1850s...

Panuco's records begin even earlier in 1684, but they are likewise missing baptism records for most of the 1840s...

I would suspect that your ancestor was in one of those two church's baptism records but they are now lost or destroyed and that is why you are having so much trouble finding him. Do you know if he was married in Mexico or the United States?

Blas is a full name, not a nickname. I also have an ancestor named Blas Gutierrez:

http://www.ramosfamily.org/nextgen/getperson.php?personID=I414