I am researching records in Jalisco for a friend.
I am confused about what to enter in the fields in the genealogy program I have (Ancestral Quest).
Hi Emilie,
“Polity” is the word I think you’re looking for: a state or a political entity. And those have changed a lot in Mexico over the centuries, as we've all learned!
I use the modern names of the towns/cities and states, and then in the “notes” section, I list the name or names of the encomienda, alcaldia mayor, rancho, hacienda, labor, puesto, real, etc.
This tends to help when working on different platforms.
Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Emily
When I have the baptism information I enter the name of the church (or parish), then town, state, and country. Since larger towns likely have more than one church it is important to note the name. For older records it is safe to assume that the churches were all catholic, but for modern records if the church is not catholic, the denomination should be noted.
When I have have birth information I enter the specific place (rancho, hacienda, etc) when given, then town, state, and country.
The manual that came with your software should give guidance on the style to use for place names. Since Ancestral Quest is Family Tree/Family Search compatible is likely uses the same style as those applications. You can consult the Family Search wiki for more information on place names.
George Fulton
-----Original Message-----
From: mimilozano@somosprimos.com [mailto:mimilozano@somosprimos.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 8:11 PM
To: mimilozano@aol.com
Subject: Somos Primos December 2015
S
Can someone tell me the name of the other church in Cuquio? I know San
Felipe is the parish church. but there is a smaller, newer one there.
Hello and welcome to Nuestros Ranchos
I just opened your post and found your family tree about an hour ago and saw some of my ancestors.
Dear Morgan
I am related to you through many other common ancestors beginning with your ninth and tenth generations.
I forgot to add Martin Gabai el de Navarro 's gen # in my response. We may be closer than sixth cousins but I need to go slowly over all your ancestors and compare them to mine.
Gen 23,958 Martin Navarro (1580) I have as Martin Gabay el de Navarro. Navarro was his nickname but was also used as his surname.
When I was typing the first post I added a bit of unconfirmed data by mistake
Magdalena's father is Sebastian Labezaris as I wrote in the post and her grandfather is Guido Labezaris ( el Viejo) but Guidos father is unconfirmed and just speculation and needs more research to confirm. Sorry about adding this bit. In my records I clearly have notes identifying him as a possible but not as probable.
You also did not include any parents for Sancha Velasco de la Carra and alfonso ruiz de temino in your last (twentieth) generation. As you most likely know, this line goes way back in time. This line connects with many political figures and popes. Through this line we descend from a common ancestor to all the presidents of the United States of America , except for one president whose ancestors are from holland. Through this line we have a connection to a famous legendary figure that many people claim didn't exist. This legendary figure appears when doing the genealogy of this couple. Not only does he appear, but the evidence for coloring the true story as a legend also is given. I will be presenting this information next year along with the genealogies of many of the altos de Jalisco families that settled in west Los Angeles / Santa Monica California.
RA Ricci
Hello Mr. Ricci. I sincerely apologize for the very late response but I did not see this post until right now. When I do some more work on my ancestry file, I will make some changes and add more generations to it. In my file that gives my ancestry, I decided to do just 20 generations at that time and then add on to it on a later date. I do know that the line that you speak of concerning Sancha Velasco de la Carra and Alfonso Ruiz de Temino goes far back to different monarchs and other prominent figures. I will add some more to a new updated file when I get the chance to.
Bryn Morgan
Dear Bryn,
I have some very interesting stories to add to many of these ancestors. This line does lead to King John Lackland of England. A few years ago a teenager and her grandfather gained a lot of fame claiming that all the presidents of the USA, except for one, descend from King John Lackland and are therefore related. Since we also descend from King John Lackland, this means that we are related to all the presidents except for one. Instead of checking whether their claims were true like a normally do, I focused on finding out if I had any ancestors in common with that one president that wasn't related. Since I was working on other projects simultaneously, I wasn't productive until recently when I found out that I do have an ancestor from holland. Now I need to work on his tree to see if we have anyone in common.
Rick A Ricci
Dear Rick,
I remember hearing about that story a few years back. It is amazing how the king who signed the magna carta back in 1215, 800 years ago, is the ancestor of these presidents and some of the founding fathers who helped create the US Constitution as well. Some of what is in the constitution was inspired by the magna carta. If you go back far enough, we are all related in one way or another. It would be great to add stories to some of our ancestors cause all I have is some names and dates, and pictures for a small few of them. Maybe that one president that's not linked does have a link to King John, but it's undiscovered as of now. Plus, we see that as we go back far enough, we have ancestors from a lot of different nations, not just our nationalities. Genealogy truly is fun.
Bryn Morgan
Dear Bryn,
You are correct that the one president is not linked to King John as of now but I am not looking to link him to King John or the other Presidents. I am looking to link him to us through a Dutch ancestor that we have. My goal here was to show that we are related to all the presidents, not that they are all related to each other.
You are going to love the stories of how we are related to some of the greatest knights that ever lived. Some of these knights I had never heard of before researching genealogy. Two of the greatest Knights that ever lived are confirmed to be in the family tree, and a third knight, considered by many Historians to be the greatest knight in history, is our ancestor if Maria Tellez de Castilla is legitimate. On a recent post to nuestrosranchos.org. I explained why she should be considered legitimate. See: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17766?page=1
Two other great Knights are brothers to our ancestors so that makes five great Knights in the family tree. One of these Knights saved the life of another ancestor just as he was about to be beaten in battle and killed so if it wasn't for his intervention one of our ancestors wouldn't have been able to produce our line and we could not have been born. The history of the world would have been completely different if not for this Knights intervention because we would not have had King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella sending Cristoforo Colon on his voyage of discovery. The details in this story are in my book.
The other knight that was a sibling to one of our ancestors had a companion who served as his right hand. This companion was a warrior himself who became "lost" when his boss/ general /knight dies and runs around stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. Yes, he did visit and stay in Sherwood Forest for a time. There was no lady Marian in the story as far as I know. There were even Nottingham officials hot on his trail. There is a monk in the story. This companion was charged with murder and was deemed an enemy of the state. This companion was very popular with the people, especially those that had been followers of the great knight/regent. The names of his boss/knight/regent was forbidden to be said aloud In public, with the punishment being death so the story of what happened had to become a ballad with different names for all the principal figures The retelling of the ballad was actually a political statement for the rights that are given in the Magna Carta. The ballad was based on historical facts and are proven by historical records. The names that are changed to protect the people who repeat the ballad from being persecuted as enemies of the state.The details of this story are also in my book.
Of course I also have stories for the three great Knights that are our ancestors in my book,
Being a descendant of King John Lackland is not a rare occurrence, in fact millions and millions of people descend from him. I did the family tree of a brother in law, Bob Nash, and I found him to descend from King John Lackland. I also found that a sister in law, Wendy Boland, also descends from King John Lackland. Neither of these in laws'family lines came through mexico. That is why it is not surprising to find that all the presidents, except for one, is a descendant of King John Lackland. What I find surprising is the amount of times that I descend from him,his sister, and a half-sister since many of his descendants married over and over again. These hundreds of times that I descend from him and his sister Eleanor is not limited to me but is shared by many members here in nuestrosranchos.
Thanks,
Rick A Ricci
Hola parientes,
Tengo la esperanza que atravez de este medio logre iluminar un poco el misterio de parte de mi papá. Ésta es la historia:
Mario,
Im not sure why, but, I have a couple of George's and one Jeorge in my
tree, I'm not sure why though. I also have dozens of Joseph's and Thomas's
spelled the english way to.
Danny C.
It's actually Old Spanish, which in turn had more similarities with Latin, but it wasn't Latin per say, in other words the form "José" didn't exist, there was Jossef, Joseph, Iosef, etc. regardless of who wrote it. As time pass the names, surnames, and grammar further change and end up in the way we use it today. Other languages like English and French retain a "primitive" more Latin-like form of some names and words, thus we would think in today's US records Joseph as been the "English" version when in fact is not English at all. Note that the Latin for this name was actually Iosephus.
Also the spelling for names changed depending of the priest education region wise.
Danny, it wasn't English. I think way back then the Catholic church and other government agencies used to use those names (Latin?). I find some of my ancestor's baptisms using Mariam for Mary, etc.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:25:53 -0800
> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] English name George in baptismal records
>
> Mario,
>
> Im not sure why, but, I have a couple of George's and one Jeorge in my
> tree, I'm not sure why though. I also have dozens of Joseph's and Thomas's
> spelled the english way to.
>
>
> Danny C. Alonso
When I came across English and French spellings of names and asked my
family what they thought, they assumed that people back then may have just
enjoyed diversity in their children's names, much as we do now. It made
sense to me.
Raquel Ruiz
Massachusetts
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:
> Danny, it wasn't English. I think way back then the Catholic church and
> other government agencies used to use those names (Latin?). I find some of
> my ancestor's baptisms using Mariam for Mary, etc.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:25:53 -0800
> > From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] English name George in baptismal records
> >
> > Mario,
> >
> > Im not sure why, but, I have a couple of George's and one Jeorge in my
> > tree, I'm not sure why though. I also have dozens of Joseph's and
> Thomas's
> > spelled the english way to.
> >
> >
> > Danny C. Alonso
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
Emily,
You're correct, it was Latin. The further back you go in years, the more
Latin you will find in the records.
Alicia
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Raquel Ruiz
wrote:
> When I came across English and French spellings of names and asked my
> family what they thought, they assumed that people back then may have just
> enjoyed diversity in their children's names, much as we do now. It made
> sense to me.
>
> Raquel Ruiz
> Massachusetts
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Emilie Garcia >
> wrote:
>
> > Danny, it wasn't English. I think way back then the Catholic church and
> > other government agencies used to use those names (Latin?). I find some
> of
> > my ancestor's baptisms using Mariam for Mary, etc.
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> >
> > > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:25:53 -0800
> > > From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] English name George in baptismal records
> > >
> > > Mario,
> > >
> > > Im not sure why, but, I have a couple of George's and one Jeorge in my
> > > tree, I'm not sure why though. I also have dozens of Joseph's and
> > Thomas's
> > > spelled the english way to.
> > >
> > >
> > > Danny C. Alonso
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
Thanks, Alicia
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 17:46:23 -0800
> From: allieavelar@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] English name George in baptismal records
>
> Emily,
>
> You're correct, it was Latin. The further back you go in years, the more
> Latin you will find in the records.
>
> Alicia
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Raquel Ruiz
> wrote:
>
> > When I came across English and French spellings of names and asked my
> > family what they thought, they assumed that people back then may have just
> > enjoyed diversity in their children's names, much as we do now. It made
> > sense to me.
> >
> > Raquel Ruiz
> > Massachusetts
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Emilie Garcia > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Danny, it wasn't English. I think way back then the Catholic church and
> > > other government agencies used to use those names (Latin?). I find some
> > of
> > > my ancestor's baptisms using Mariam for Mary, etc.
> > >
> > > Emilie
> > > Port Orchard, WA
> > >
> > > > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:25:53 -0800
> > > > From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> > > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] English name George in baptismal records
> > > >
> > > > Mario,
> > > >
> > > > Im not sure why, but, I have a couple of George's and one Jeorge in my
> > > > tree, I'm not sure why though. I also have dozens of Joseph's and
> > > Thomas's
> > > > spelled the english way to.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Danny C. Alonso
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
Raquel,
In a book I have about the origin of the names assigned by the Catholic church during baptisms, St. George was a soldier martyr who was born near Jerusalem in the 3rd century. In the Saint's calendar his day is April 23, and the name means "farmer". Joseph of course was the husband of the Virgin Mary and his day is March 19, and Mariam (she has several days) was his wife. Most people way back in the 17th century on the farms in Mexico couldn't read or write, unless they were in business or teachers in town. I also notice in the baptism books, that on certain weeks most of the people baptized were given the same name for the saint on the calendar.
Priests, I think, not only studied the history of saints, but they also studied the Roman and Greek literature, so I have found diversity in names that are not from the Saints calendar, such as my father's mother who was named Gorgonia. I find that strange that she was given the name from a Greek myth about a monster woman who had snakes on her head, and if you looked into her eyes you would be turned to stone. I am sure that my Gorgonia's parents didn't know about that myth or they would not have given her that name. They were simple farmers without education and not merchants or government officials.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 19:33:28 -0500
> From: ruiz.raquel061@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] English name George in baptismal records
>
> When I came across English and French spellings of names and asked my
> family what they thought, they assumed that people back then may have just
> enjoyed diversity in their children's names, much as we do now. It made
> sense to me.
>
> Raquel Ruiz
> Massachusetts
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Emilie Garcia
> wrote:
>
> > Danny, it wasn't English. I think way back then the Catholic church and
> > other government agencies used to use those names (Latin?). I find some of
> > my ancestor's baptisms using Mariam for Mary, etc.
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> >
> > > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:25:53 -0800
> > > From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] English name George in baptismal records
> > >
> > > Mario,
> > >
> > > Im not sure why, but, I have a couple of George's and one Jeorge in my
> > > tree, I'm not sure why though. I also have dozens of Joseph's and
> > Thomas's
> > > spelled the english way to.
> > >
> > >
> > > Danny C. Alonso
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
Emilie,
You're right. I have sometimes used ancestor's given names to as a see it
helps me locate the date of baptism. Maybe it was the priest who liked the
diversity of spellings!
Raquel
On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:
> Raquel,
>
> In a book I have about the origin of the names assigned by the Catholic
> church during baptisms, St. George was a soldier martyr who was born near
> Jerusalem in the 3rd century. In the Saint's calendar his day is April 23,
> and the name means "farmer". Joseph of course was the husband of the
> Virgin Mary and his day is March 19, and Mariam (she has several days) was
> his wife. Most people way back in the 17th century on the farms in Mexico
> couldn't read or write, unless they were in business or teachers in town.
> I also notice in the baptism books, that on certain weeks most of the
> people baptized were given the same name for the saint on the calendar.
>
> Priests, I think, not only studied the history of saints, but they also
> studied the Roman and Greek literature, so I have found diversity in names
> that are not from the Saints calendar, such as my father's mother who was
> named Gorgonia. I find that strange that she was given the name from a
> Greek myth about a monster woman who had snakes on her head, and if you
> looked into her eyes you would be turned to stone. I am sure that my
> Gorgonia's parents didn't know about that myth or they would not have given
> her that name. They were simple farmers without education and not merchants
> or government officials.
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
> > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 19:33:28 -0500
> > From: ruiz.raquel061@gmail.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] English name George in baptismal records
> >
> > When I came across English and French spellings of names and asked my
> > family what they thought, they assumed that people back then may have
> just
> > enjoyed diversity in their children's names, much as we do now. It made
> > sense to me.
> >
> > Raquel Ruiz
> > Massachusetts
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Emilie Garcia <
> auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Danny, it wasn't English. I think way back then the Catholic church
> and
> > > other government agencies used to use those names (Latin?). I find
> some of
> > > my ancestor's baptisms using Mariam for Mary, etc.
> > >
> > > Emilie
> > > Port Orchard, WA
> > >
> > > > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:25:53 -0800
> > > > From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> > > > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > > > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] English name George in baptismal records
> > > >
> > > > Mario,
> > > >
> > > > Im not sure why, but, I have a couple of George's and one Jeorge in
> my
> > > > tree, I'm not sure why though. I also have dozens of Joseph's and
> > > Thomas's
> > > > spelled the english way to.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Danny C. Alonso
> > > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > To post, send email to:
> > > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > > >
> > > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> > >
> > > To post, send email to:
> > > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> > >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>
Hi Emilie,
Your grandmother was probably not named for a Greek myth, but, rather for the Greek Saint Gorgonia, the sister of Saint Gregory of Nazianzus and the daughter of Saint Gregory the Elder:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Gorgonia
Chris
Dear Members,
I have found additional information on the Guzmán family in Compostela Nayarit, who are tied to the Guzmán family in Tecolotlán, Autlán and Ejutla.
Hola Sergio
¿Cómo estás colega? Me da gusto leer tus nuevos descubrimientos y teorías.
Muy interesantes tus aportaciones, creo que estás muy cerca de encontrar el vínculo de Miguel de Guzmán con la familia Guzmán de Compostela.
Me gustaría añadir unos datos más que solidifican tu teoría.
Tu comentario acerca del uso del nombre de Álvaro y Sebastián en la descendencia de Juan de Guzmán es muy acertada y creo que el nombre de Teresa también se añade a este grupo de nombres en común.
Teresa de Guzmán estuvo casada con Lucas de Covarrubias y sabemos que fue hija de Juan de Guzmán por la siguiente dispensa:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K6G-1?wc=12512809&cc=1874…
A su vez Teresa (hija de Juan) tuvo por hija a otra Teresa en 1719 en Tecolotlán.
Aquí el nombre en común es con Teresa de Guzmán esposa de Diego Dávalos y Ulibarri que ya mencionaste tuvieron a una hija llamada Teresa en 1700 y que Diego fue hermano del Primer Conde de Miravalle. Por la fecha de nacimiento de su hija, concluyo que Teresa sería de la generación de Juan de Guzmán, a lo que vienen las siguientes preguntas ¿Sería Teresa hermana de Juan de Guzmán? ¿Es por esto que Juan nombró como Teresa a una de sus hijas, en honor a su hermana? ¿Esto explicaría el vínculo por el que los Sánchez-Cabesuelas relacionaron a los Condes de Miravalle con la familia Guzmán? Sería importante saber si existe el acta de matrimonio de Teresa con Diego Dávalos y Ulibarri para confirmar esto.
Otro dato a considerar es que gracias a la dispensa de Francisco González Lozano con Josepha de Velasco y Guzmán, sabemos que Miguel de Guzmán (padre de Juan) tuvo un hermano llamado Fernando de Guzmán, que a su vez fue padre de Magdalena, madre de Josefa de Velasco. Magdalena era esposa de Damián de Velasco, aquí su acta matrimonial:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-PR6H-T?wc=M99L-JCJ%3A11270…
Algo que llama la atención en esta acta es que su nombre viene como Magdalena Sánchez (Sánchez de Guzmán), lo cual refuerza que su abuelo fuera un Sánchez de Guzmán (posiblemente Álvaro Sánchez de Guzmán), además dicha acta menciona que era originaria de Autlán e hija natural de Fernando de Guzmán (difunto) y Juana de Aguayo.
Otra información que refuerza la idea de que Sebastián de Guzmán casado con María de la Cueva y Miguel de Guzmán casado con Ana Fernández de la Cueva, sean hermanos es precisamente la posibilidad de que sus esposas también fueran familiares.
Otro dato adicional es que en Cocula hay registro de que residía ahí en 1674 Sebastián Pérez de Guzmán casado con Isabel de Santa Cruz, padres de Jacinta Pérez de Guzmán esposa de Juan Ramírez de Prado ¿Sería este Sebastián Pérez de Guzmán hijo del Sebastián Pérez de Guzmán hijo de Álvaro Sánchez de Guzmán? ¿Juan de Guzmán habría viajado a aquella región de Jalisco por recomendación de su primo Sebastián? Aunque estas preguntas son sólo posibilidades más remotas.
Creo que la búsqueda debe enfocarse sobretodo en Compostela y Autlán, como lo has estado haciendo. Cuando pueda reiniciaré investigación en esta rama, te agradezco nos compartas tus descubrimientos también por este medio.
Por último quería pedirte si pudieras proporcionarme el testamento de Juan de Araiza y Medina, padre de Cristóbal de Araiza (creo que era de él), ya que leí hace meses en un post que publicaste que habías tenido acceso a él.
Esperemos la fuerza esté de nuestro lado para resolver este caso que ha tenido un desarrollo muy interesante.
Un gusto seguir colaborando contigo, saludos.
Enrique S. Agraz Villarreal
Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
Is there someone in the Forum that knows something about mhy ancestor
Francisca Solana Duron?
Danny.
There's a Francisca Durón married to a Felipe/Phelipe Ruiz Camarillo around
the same time as your Francisca Solana Duron and Phelipe Martín, maybe
they're the same couple.
Paige
Hi Paige and Danny,
Francisca Durón and Phelipe Ruiz Camarillo and Francisca Solana Durón and Phelipe Martín are not the same couple, although for a second I thought Francisca Durón and Francisca Solana Durón might be the same person, but, they're not.
First, they have overlapping children. Francisca Durón and Phelipe Ruiz Camarillo had a child named Angela de los Dolores Camarillo born on 17 Jun 1729, and Francisca Solana Durón and Phelipe Martín had a Francisco Xavier Martín born 5 months later on 6 Nov 1729. Same with these two children born a month apart, Manuela Petronila Martín born on 8 Jun 1736 and Monica Camarillo born on 22 May 1736.
I think Francisca Durón and Francisca Solana Durón, oddly enough, are sisters. According to below dispensa, Francisca Durón that's married to Phelipe Ruiz Camarillo is the daughter of Francisco Gutiérrez Durón and Beatriz Rodríguez de la Vera. And, even though Beatriz Rodríguez de la Vera is listed as hija de padres no conocidos, the below dispensa identifies her as the daughter of Luisa de Vera.
And, after checking George Fulton's indexes matrimoniales, you'll find the IM of Francisca Xaviera Solana Durón and Phelipe Martín. It doesn't list his parents, but, hers are listed as, Francisco Durón and Beatríz de la Vega, which, I think is a typo by the scribe for Beatríz de la Vera. On the IM, Francisco Durón and Beatríz de la Vega are listed as vecinos de Triana and on the defunción of Francisco Durón, it lists him as becino del barrio de Triana, casado con Beatríz de la Vera, so, I'd say that Francisca Xaviera Solana Durón married to Phelipe Martín and Francisca Durón married to Phelipe Ruiz Camarillo are most likely sisters, even though, I've rarely seen two sisters with the same first name and the same two parents.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DYM7-NJJ?i=16&wc=M6QF-229%…
You can find George Fulton's indexes matrimoniales here:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18014
688
Aguascalientes. Ags Diciembre 22 de 1717. Exp. 105 - Dispensa de tercero con
cuarto grado de consanguinidad, y segundo grado de afinidad por cópula ilícita.-
Phelipe Ruiz Camarillo. español de 40 años de edad, originario y vecino de esta
villa, hijo legítimo de Esteban Ruiz Camarillo y de Juana González, difuntos;
con Francisca Durón. española de 17 años de edad, originaria y vecina de esta
villa, hija legítima de Francisco Durón y de Beatriz Rodríguez de Vera.
Declaración del pretenso: Tuve acceso con Gertrudis de Arizmendi, prima Hermana
de Francisca Durón. Declaración de Phelipe González, español de 46 años de edad
Por cuanto Luisa de Vera, abuela de la pretensa y Juana González, madre del
pretenso eran primas hermanas Se otorgó la dispensa en la Ciudad de
Guadalajara. en 16 de abril de 1718 11 fojas
Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara Rollo
167985 OAH 2348 pt 1. Matrimonios
Hojas Suelus. 1716. 22 de diciembre
de 1717
Chris
Dear Chris,
Sisters with the same name isn't as rare as you may think, at least not in los Altos de Jalisco. On two separate occasions it took me a while to figure out which of two sisters with very similar names were the right ones. With another family that i was studying, I found about five sisters, it may have been more, all named Maria Antonia with each one having an additional name that was different. They all had the same parents. With men, I have also found similar named brothers. Jose Manuel and Juan Manuel. My grandfather had two brothers with the same name, Refugio. I know two Martin sisters from Pegueros with the same first name.
Rick
Hi Rick,
Yeah, I've seen siblings with similar and variations of the same name before. I have one family where the baptisms show about 6 different children all named variations of Antonia and Josefa, but, in those cases one is named Antonia Josefa Luisa and one is named Josefa Teresa Antonia, but in those cases they each use the name that isn't Josefa or Antonia. I rarely come across two siblings both using the same first name, although, I bet in reality she probably mostly went by Solana.
Chris
Thanks Chris for your informative post which clears up some questions I had with this family.
An additional bit of information is that Francisco Gutierrez Duron, father of the two Francisca's, also used the surname of Ruiz Colmenero which explains the use of the Colmenenero last name by some of his descendants.
Also, as a possible explanation of the Solana name used by the Francisca who married Felipe Martin, there is a Saint Francisco Solano (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Solanus) who's feast day is celebrated on July 14. Perhaps, the Francisca with a baptism date of July 12, 1707 is Francisca Javiera Solana?
Hasta pronto
Austin Perez
Francisca and Francisca were sisters.
Here's the 1st, b 17 Feb 1698, m1 Phelipe Ruiz de Camarillo m2. Francisco de Esparza
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-64V7-3LQ?wc=M6Q6-J29%3A648…
And the 2nd, b. 12 Jul 1707 m. to Phelipe Martin; have her as "Francisca Xaviera," so she probably went by "Xaviera."
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XX6T-BX?i=355&wc=M6QX-TP6%…
My g7 Nicolas Trujillo had 3 daughters named Juana - one with his first wife, and 2 with his second wife. They used different surnames: Juana de Venegas (her mother's surname), Juana de Loya (her mother's surname, though she sometimes went by Juana Trujillo)) and her full-sister, Juana Trujillo.
"Juana" must've been his mother's name, or perhaps his patron saint?
Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Hi Manny,
I agree those are the two baptisms for each sister. I think because I see so many baptisms a few years later for a child with the same name and then I find a defuncion for the first child, that normally when I see a second baptism with the same name, I assume the first child died.
Chris
Chris, Austin, Manny,
Thank you for all this valuble information. This helps me so much.
Danny C. Alonso
I have a maternal ancestor, Anna Christina Marquez Martines, married to Juan Faustino Duron circa 1750 (have not located their marriage info yet). Juan Faustino Duron has also appeared as Faustino Colmenero in some records, which has been confusing for me. Can anyone enlighten me re: the Colmenero surname in relation to Duron? The only reference I've found so far for Faustino's parents is from a death record in Aguascalientes for 13 Jun 1786 : Manuel Colmenero, father, & Maria Antonia, his mother. It does show his wife as Crestina Marques. Anna Crestina's parents are Alexo Marques & Gertrudis Martines, but I've found no further information for them in Aguascalientes circa early 1700's. If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be most appreciative, as Gertrudis Martinez is my most distant known ancestor in my matrilineal lineage.
My husband has ancestors in Aguascalientes in late 1600s and 1700s with the name Duron, also Martinez or Martines, and sometimes they used just Martin (from Martin del Campo).
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: cudave@icloud.com
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 12:16:50 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colmenero & Duron surnames
>
> I have a maternal ancestor, Anna Christina Marquez Martines, married to Juan
> Faustino Duron circa 1750 (have not located their marriage info yet). Juan
> Faustino Duron has also appeared as Faustino Colmenero in some records, which
> has been confusing for me. Can anyone enlighten me re: the Colmenero surname
> in relation to Duron? The only reference I've found so far for Faustino's
> parents is from a death record in Aguascalientes for 13 Jun 1786 : Manuel
> Colmenero, father, & Maria Antonia, his mother. It does show his wife as
> Crestina Marques. Anna Crestina's parents are Alexo Marques & Gertrudis
> Martines, but I've found no further information for them in Aguascalientes
> circa early 1700's. If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be most appreciative, as
> Gertrudis Martinez is my most distant known ancestor in my matrilineal
> lineage.
>
Hello Emilie!
I'm so happy to see your response! I emailed you several years back because I had read some of your posts on Nuestros and realized that we're actually relatively "close" neighbors in Kitsap. I've been researching my mother's ancestors since 2010, beginning not long after my father's death.
Early this spring, I began working on my dad's lineage in Guanajuato. To my surprise, I've recently discovered that my father's line gradually migrated to Guanajuato from the Los Altos region of Jalisco! Who knew that both of my parent's family origins came from the same state in Mexico!!! It's a small world...after all!
Anyway...the Duron, Marquez, Colmenero & Martines surnames all seem to hail from Aguascalientes in the mid-to-later part of the 1700's and represent some of the earliest ancestors in my matrilineal lines. They've been one of my brick walls for the better part of 3 years!
Maybe we could meet some time over a cup of coffee and compare notes on the possibility of common ancestors? If interested, you can contact me @ cudave@icloud.com.
And...happy Thanksgiving to you & your husband!
Consuelo Udave
> On Nov 21, 2015, at 2:21 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
> My husband has ancestors in Aguascalientes in late 1600s and 1700s with the name Duron, also Martinez or Martines, and sometimes they used just Martin (from Martin del Campo).
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>> From: cudave@icloud.com
>> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 12:16:50 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colmenero & Duron surnames
>>
>> I have a maternal ancestor, Anna Christina Marquez Martines, married to Juan
>> Faustino Duron circa 1750 (have not located their marriage info yet). Juan
>> Faustino Duron has also appeared as Faustino Colmenero in some records, which
>> has been confusing for me. Can anyone enlighten me re: the Colmenero surname
>> in relation to Duron? The only reference I've found so far for Faustino's
>> parents is from a death record in Aguascalientes for 13 Jun 1786 : Manuel
>> Colmenero, father, & Maria Antonia, his mother. It does show his wife as
>> Crestina Marques. Anna Crestina's parents are Alexo Marques & Gertrudis
>> Martines, but I've found no further information for them in Aguascalientes
>> circa early 1700's. If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be most appreciative, as
>> Gertrudis Martinez is my most distant known ancestor in my matrilineal
>> lineage.
>>
Well, hello neighbor,
Yes I would like to meet with you or chat with you via e-mail and find out more about where you live, etc. I will e-mail you privately later. In the meantime, I will look for your e-mail to see what it was about. I usually print out e-mails that I need to respond to. Maybe if you tell me what it was about, I can look in the binders I have. I have five bookcases of family trees I have done for folks since 2001.
Since 2010 I have been quite ill and had dialysis and a kidney transplant and need to take 20 pills a day for the rest of my life so the kidney won't reject, so maybe that is why you didn't hear back from me. I have good days and bad, and now that I am 77 and my husband Tony is 80, we don't go out much.
Only recently have I gotten back to doing research like I used to and am currently doing a family tree for my adopted daughter, and I find that her paternal and maternal ancestors all came to Jalisco via Aguascalientes (the two states were once one) and then also went on to Guanajuato or mixed with people from there. Her parents are second cousins to each other.
I also believe that she and my husband may have common ancestors (he on his paternal lines) way back since I find many of the same surnames and the same places in the records for both of them. I also find that in my husband's lines, several couples were related to each other through common ancestors. It may well be that you and my husband have common ancestors. Small world indeed.
Sincerely,
Emilie
> From: cudave@icloud.com
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 21:46:46 -0800
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colmenero & Duron surnames
>
> Hello Emilie!
>
> I'm so happy to see your response! I emailed you several years back because I had read some of your posts on Nuestros and realized that we're actually relatively "close" neighbors in Kitsap. I've been researching my mother's ancestors since 2010, beginning not long after my father's death.
>
> Early this spring, I began working on my dad's lineage in Guanajuato. To my surprise, I've recently discovered that my father's line gradually migrated to Guanajuato from the Los Altos region of Jalisco! Who knew that both of my parent's family origins came from the same state in Mexico!!! It's a small world...after all!
>
> Anyway...the Duron, Marquez, Colmenero & Martines surnames all seem to hail from Aguascalientes in the mid-to-later part of the 1700's and represent some of the earliest ancestors in my matrilineal lines. They've been one of my brick walls for the better part of 3 years!
>
> Maybe we could meet some time over a cup of coffee and compare notes on the possibility of common ancestors? If interested, you can contact me @ cudave@icloud.com.
>
> And...happy Thanksgiving to you & your husband!
> Consuelo Udave
>
> > On Nov 21, 2015, at 2:21 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:
> >
> > My husband has ancestors in Aguascalientes in late 1600s and 1700s with the name Duron, also Martinez or Martines, and sometimes they used just Martin (from Martin del Campo).
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> >
> >> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> >> From: cudave@icloud.com
> >> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 12:16:50 -0800
> >> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colmenero & Duron surnames
> >>
> >> I have a maternal ancestor, Anna Christina Marquez Martines, married to Juan
> >> Faustino Duron circa 1750 (have not located their marriage info yet). Juan
> >> Faustino Duron has also appeared as Faustino Colmenero in some records, which
> >> has been confusing for me. Can anyone enlighten me re: the Colmenero surname
> >> in relation to Duron? The only reference I've found so far for Faustino's
> >> parents is from a death record in Aguascalientes for 13 Jun 1786 : Manuel
> >> Colmenero, father, & Maria Antonia, his mother. It does show his wife as
> >> Crestina Marques. Anna Crestina's parents are Alexo Marques & Gertrudis
> >> Martines, but I've found no further information for them in Aguascalientes
> >> circa early 1700's. If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be most appreciative, as
> >> Gertrudis Martinez is my most distant known ancestor in my matrilineal
> >> lineage.
> >>
> >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> >> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >>
> >> To post, send email to:
> >> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >>
> >> To change your subscription, log on to:
> >> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Hola Emilie,
I'll respond to this email privately, after Thanksgiving, ok?
Till then,
Consuelo Udave
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 23, 2015, at 12:18 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>
> Well, hello neighbor,
>
> Yes I would like to meet with you or chat with you via e-mail and find out more about where you live, etc. I will e-mail you privately later. In the meantime, I will look for your e-mail to see what it was about. I usually print out e-mails that I need to respond to. Maybe if you tell me what it was about, I can look in the binders I have. I have five bookcases of family trees I have done for folks since 2001.
>
> Since 2010 I have been quite ill and had dialysis and a kidney transplant and need to take 20 pills a day for the rest of my life so the kidney won't reject, so maybe that is why you didn't hear back from me. I have good days and bad, and now that I am 77 and my husband Tony is 80, we don't go out much.
>
> Only recently have I gotten back to doing research like I used to and am currently doing a family tree for my adopted daughter, and I find that her paternal and maternal ancestors all came to Jalisco via Aguascalientes (the two states were once one) and then also went on to Guanajuato or mixed with people from there. Her parents are second cousins to each other.
>
> I also believe that she and my husband may have common ancestors (he on his paternal lines) way back since I find many of the same surnames and the same places in the records for both of them. I also find that in my husband's lines, several couples were related to each other through common ancestors. It may well be that you and my husband have common ancestors. Small world indeed.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Emilie
>
>> From: cudave@icloud.com
>> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 21:46:46 -0800
>> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colmenero & Duron surnames
>>
>> Hello Emilie!
>>
>> I'm so happy to see your response! I emailed you several years back because I had read some of your posts on Nuestros and realized that we're actually relatively "close" neighbors in Kitsap. I've been researching my mother's ancestors since 2010, beginning not long after my father's death.
>>
>> Early this spring, I began working on my dad's lineage in Guanajuato. To my surprise, I've recently discovered that my father's line gradually migrated to Guanajuato from the Los Altos region of Jalisco! Who knew that both of my parent's family origins came from the same state in Mexico!!! It's a small world...after all!
>>
>> Anyway...the Duron, Marquez, Colmenero & Martines surnames all seem to hail from Aguascalientes in the mid-to-later part of the 1700's and represent some of the earliest ancestors in my matrilineal lines. They've been one of my brick walls for the better part of 3 years!
>>
>> Maybe we could meet some time over a cup of coffee and compare notes on the possibility of common ancestors? If interested, you can contact me @ cudave@icloud.com.
>>
>> And...happy Thanksgiving to you & your husband!
>> Consuelo Udave
>>
>>> On Nov 21, 2015, at 2:21 PM, Emilie Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>> My husband has ancestors in Aguascalientes in late 1600s and 1700s with the name Duron, also Martinez or Martines, and sometimes they used just Martin (from Martin del Campo).
>>>
>>> Emilie
>>> Port Orchard, WA
>>>
>>>> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>> From: cudave@icloud.com
>>>> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 12:16:50 -0800
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Colmenero & Duron surnames
>>>>
>>>> I have a maternal ancestor, Anna Christina Marquez Martines, married to Juan
>>>> Faustino Duron circa 1750 (have not located their marriage info yet). Juan
>>>> Faustino Duron has also appeared as Faustino Colmenero in some records, which
>>>> has been confusing for me. Can anyone enlighten me re: the Colmenero surname
>>>> in relation to Duron? The only reference I've found so far for Faustino's
>>>> parents is from a death record in Aguascalientes for 13 Jun 1786 : Manuel
>>>> Colmenero, father, & Maria Antonia, his mother. It does show his wife as
>>>> Crestina Marques. Anna Crestina's parents are Alexo Marques & Gertrudis
>>>> Martines, but I've found no further information for them in Aguascalientes
>>>> circa early 1700's. If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be most appreciative, as
>>>> Gertrudis Martinez is my most distant known ancestor in my matrilineal
>>>> lineage.
>>>>
>>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> To post, send email to:
>>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>>
>>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>>>
>>> To post, send email to:
>>> research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
>>>
>>> To change your subscription, log on to:
>>> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
Juan Faustino was baptized 26 August 1714 in Aguascalientes, his parents are Jose Manuel Ruiz Colmenero (aka Duron) and Maria Polonia Fernandez de Sosa. Faustino's godfather was capitan Nicolas Faustion de Aguilera. The baptism is the first record in the following image:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XX6B-8V?i=471&wc=M6Q6-VP8%…
Jose Manuel Duron is the son of Francisco Gutierrez Duron (aka Ruiz Colmenero) and Beatriz Rodriguez de Vera. Maria Polonia Fernandez de Sosa was originally from Silao and is the illegitimate daughter of Juan Fernandez de Sosa and Maria Dorotea. Their marriage record is top right of the following image: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-XXC3-CP6?wc=M99K-3Z1%3An10…
Sorry, but I don't have any information for Ana Cristina Marquez.
Best regards,
Austin Perez
Austin,
this is great information. now me and Consuelo are related since Jose Manuel Duron and my Francisca Solana Duron are brother and sister.
Danny C. Alonso
Hi Austin,
Thanks, that's great information. That makes sense, her younger sister was probably named for St. Francis of Assisi and She was named for St. Francisco Solano combined with the Basque, St. Francis Xavier. That baptism date would also definitely line up with when she was probably born. We need to find out where the Ruiz Colmenero comes from.
Chris
Maria Theodora Martines (M3B1-TWW) married to Salvador Macias de Bustos (M3K3-NJ7) I found the information disjointed and just merged information. All they need are dates of approx. birth and the computer will search more efficiently, but they sure have many variables. There came up 2 matches for Maria Theodora, but I did not merge because I do not know enough about them to merge them. Hope that helps you.
Simona,
Salvador Macias and MAria Theodora Martines got married on january 9th 1746
in el Sagrario Aguascalientes so both of them wwere probly born close to
1726. The parents for Salvador Macias are Thomas Macias Valadez and
Nicolasa de Bustos
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DTDQ-NQD?i=341&wc=M6QF-2P8…
Danny C. Alonso
On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 8:36 AM, wrote:
> Maria Theodora Martines (M3B1-TWW) married to Salvador Macias de Bustos
> (M3K3-NJ7) I found the information disjointed and just merged information.
> All they need are dates of approx. birth and the computer will search more
> efficiently, but they sure have many variables. There came up 2 matches for
> Maria Theodora, but I did not merge because I do not know enough about them
> to merge them. Hope that helps you.
>
From: Angel R.
From: Angel R. Cervantes [mailto:angelrcervantes@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 10:33 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: The Moors Connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup E1b1b1b)
Hello,
I would like to invite you to attend a lecture on the Moors connection to New Mexican Families (Haplogroup E1b1b1b). If you would like to learn more about the mark this ancient civilization made on the Iberian Peninsula then this presentation is for you. There will be a presentation on the subject on November 30, at 3:30 PM, through the University of New Mexico Continuing Education program.
Here is a link to sign up for the presentation:
https://newmexico.augusoft.net/index.cfm?method=ClassInfo.ClassInformat… &int_class_id=74047&utm_source=ce-Osher
Best Regards,
Ángel de Cervantes
Executive Director
New Mexico DNA Project
Iberian Peninsula DNA Institute
Hello i would like to get started on the Arias line but only have documents that state Pedro Arias and Esteban Arias were from Jalisco. Any suggestions on where I would start??
I got information off of his Social Security application that states he was born in "Lovavga, Jal, MX" I have tried several variants of the name and come up with no solid town name...any suggestions?
Amalia,
Do you have a date of birth on the Social Security application? did you look in family search? that's where i would go first
Danny C. Alonso
Reading Lovavga it sounds almost like "La barca", just an idea.
I agree with La Barca Jalisco being the best staring point. What other information is known about these people? What siblings, in laws, wives, any other thread that we can pull at? The arias in my family that I have studied are in tamazuela, Ayo el/Ayotlan Arandas Jalisco. Give us information to help you out in your search.
Rick Ricci
I agree with La Barca Jalisco being the best starting point. What other information is known about these people? What siblings, in laws, wives, or any other thread that we can pull at? The Arias in my family that I have studied are in Tamazuela, Ayo el Chico /Ayotlan Arandas Jalisco. Give us information to help you out in your search.
Rick Ricci
Amalia
Without more specific information, it is difficult to provide good guidance.
Some suggestions:
(1) Were they US residents or citizens and did they have social security numbers? If so, and are deceased, you can get copies of the social security card applications; these documents may have the place of birth; although it might just be the country. The link to this is the social security death index (at Family Search and other sites). You will have to write to the Social Security Administration, and pay a fee.
(2) Border crossing records will sometimes have the place of birth. These are at Ancestry.com, and some at Family Search. Very rarely, these will have photos.
(3) Do any older family members have consular documents from the Mexican Consulates; these may have the place of birth (these were often used as identification). Sometimes these have photos attached.
(4) The 1930 Mexican Census may be helpful.
(5) The US Censuses will have dates of immigration, but not specific locations; they will only give the country. This is for 1930 and before (the 1940 census should be available starting in 2012). This can be a clue for when to look in border crossing records.
(6) If they are deceased and died in the US, you can get the death certificates. These may have the town of birth, but may only say "Mexico." In California death certificates are about $15, others states will differ.
(7) Check the indexes at Family Search; however, the Mexican extractions generally stopped in the 1870/80 time period, but some are later.
(8) If they were born in Mexico, and later became citizens, the naturalization papers may have place of birth. Some of these, but not a lot, are online. In some US states these are kept in the County Recorder's office, in others, in Federal offices. You would need to know where they got their citizenship.
Ryskamp's "Finding Your Mexican Ancestors" will give other suggestions. This is till in print, and not expensive.
Jalisco is a moderate sized state, some of the population statistics are:
1800 500,000 (est)
1850 770,000 (est)
1900 1,150,000
1930 1,260,000
2000 6,300,000
Looking in the Mexican church or civil records, with the limited information you provide, is likely to be frustrating. Talk with your older relatives, while they may not have the facts, they may have clues of where to look. Anything that will help focus the search will increase the chances of success.
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Oh I tried to get a copy of Esteban or Pedros birth records but you have to be a Mexico citizen. They said I would have to get one of my family members to do it for me, for them to even search for it. Some States are diffrent than others. I had no problem getting what I needed from the State of San Luis Potosi where my Hernandez rooted...
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Hi Amalia,
My wife is an Arias and her father is from Apulco, Jalisco. You may want to
look into this small town. I'm sure there are Arias in other parts of Jalisco,
but this may be a starting point.
Saludos,
Juan Aguayo Munoz
------ Original Message ------
Received: 12:21 PM PDT, 08/10/2011
From: hernandezmol@msn.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where to start...Arias
Hello i would like to get started on the Arias line but only have documents
that state Pedro Arias and Esteban Arias were from Jalisco. Any suggestions
on where I would start??
Amalia Hernandez Arias
When I was working on records from Tamazula Jalisco I found Arias sometimes mixed with Balovinos, also noticed they appeared to come from Michoacan.. Daniel.. did you find Arias also?
Linda in B.C.
From: Juan Aguayo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where to start...Arias
Hi Amalia,
My wife is an Arias and her father is from Apulco, Jalisco. You may want to
look into this small town. I'm sure there are Arias in other parts of Jalisco,
but this may be a starting point.
Saludos,
Juan Aguayo Munoz
------ Original Message ------
Received: 12:21 PM PDT, 08/10/2011
From: hernandezmol@msn.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where to start...Arias
Hello i would like to get started on the Arias line but only have documents
that state Pedro Arias and Esteban Arias were from Jalisco. Any suggestions
on where I would start??
Amalia Hernandez Arias
Hola y saludos a todos aquí en Nuestros Ranchos.
Tengo tiempo buscando documentación de los orígenes españoles de la familia González de Isla, que vivieron en Nochistlan en el siglo XVII.
I found this note on our Guido el menor
AbezAREs (Guido DE)—Guido de Lavezares, Lavezaris, Lavazaris, Labezarii, Labezarrii ó Lauezaris ... allí á la capital de la Nueva España, donde parece que se dedicó de nuevo á su oficio de librero.
Claudia:
Traduzco del francés la mayor parte de un artículo sobre Guido de Lavezares que se encuentra en: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_de_Lavezaris
Guido de Lavezaris
Guido de Lavezaris (1512-1582) fue el segundo gobernador general español de Filipinas. Sucedió el 20 de agosto de 1572, a Miguel López de Legazpi, y fue seguido en 25 de agosto 1575 por Francisco de Sande.
Contenido
1 Juventud
2 Ascensión
3 Gobernador y al final de la vida
4 Fuentes
Juventud
Hijo de Sebastián Lavezaris, librero, y Catalina Chávez, Guido de Lavezaris o Lavezares, nació en Sevilla en 1512. Proviene de una familia de libreros y editores, de Génova y se estableció en Sevilla. Su padre era un librero importante en su lugar de trabajo, y su abuelo, Guido El Viejo, editó una serie de libros entre 1491 y 1508, año en que murió. A la muerte de su padre, ocurrida en 1532, Guido siguió la tradición familiar y, a su vez, se convirtió en un librero. El 4 de junio 1536, se embarcó con su hermana Magdalena a Nueva España, después de llegar a un acuerdo con Juan Cromberger, impresor instalado en Sevilla, donde se comprometió a vender mercancía con valor de 1.233.909 maravedíes, al mejor precio posible, lo que lo obligó a vivir durante 4 años en México, Veracruz, o en algún otro lugar al que se le hubiera podido enviar.
Ascensión
En 1543 se convirtió en miembro de la expedición de Villalobos quien viajó a las Filipinas. Se convirtió en el tesorero real de la expedición durante la navegación. Más tarde, fue uno de los muchos prisioneros que escaparon de una prisión en Ambon, Indonesia, mientras que el equipo de Villalobos y los barcos fueron capturados por las patrulla portugués. Retuvo el título de tesorero real hasta 1572. El 5 de junio de 1569, escribió a Felipe II de España, para describir el ataque portugués en Cebu.
Gobernador y final de su vida
Durante su gobierno, encomendó a Juan de Salcedo, el nieto de Miguel López de Legazpi, para una expedición en la parte norte de Luzón, con unos 100 soldados españoles a la conquista del actual Ilocos y establecer Villa Fernandina. Lavezares también conquistó la península Camarines y otorgó importantes encomiendas a sus generales fieles. En 1574, venció el famoso pirata chino Limahong cuando intentaba colonizar las Filipinas. En 1575, el español Fray Martín de Rada interpuso una queja ante el rey Felipe II de España contra Lavezares, dando lugar a su despido. Denunció los abusos de poder para imponen tributo a los nativos. Lavazares nunca regresó a España y se retiró como encomendero rico. Su sucesor, Francisco de Sande, emitió un decreto en 1576 que estipuló la división de la encomienda de Lavazares en pequeñas porciones de tierras que fueron distribuidas a los nativos. Sande también presentó un procedimiento judicial en su contra por usurpación contra él, pero más tarde fue reprendido por Felipe II.
Guido de Lavezaris estaba casado con Inés Alvarez Gibraleón, pero murió en 1582 sin descendencia. El municipio de Lavezares, Norte de Samar, fue nombrado en su honor.
Fuentes
La impresión y el comercio de libros de los quinientos en Sevilla.
Carta de Guido de Lavezaris a Felipe II.
Historia de las Islas Filipinas vol. 1 y 2.
I read a post by Carlos Peredo where he stated the following:
"La confusión es fácil ya que de acuerdo a información del querido Guillermo Tovar de Teresa, Benito-que era hijo de Magdalena de Labezares (I), también casó con una Magdalena de Labezares (II)(seguramente su prima hermana- hija de Guido de Labezares)
Gracias por su paciencia y quedan las interrogantes ......
Carlos A. Peredo"
This post led to me to research Guido De Labezares and Ines Alvarez Gibraleon. I did not find any daughter of Guido and Ines named Magdalena. I did find a daughter with a different name and her husband was not Benito de Islas. Benitos spouse was Juana Navarro Moctezuma. Benito also had a daughter out of wedlock.
Alfonso Reynoso quoted and translated Wilkipedia which provided the source for their information. Here is part of what he wrote:
"Guido de Lavezaris estaba casado con Inés Alvarez Gibraleón, pero murió en 1582 sin descendencia. El municipio de Lavezares, Norte de Samar, fue nombrado en su honor.
Fuentes
La impresión y el comercio de libros de los quinientos en Sevilla.
Carta de Guido de Lavezaris a Felipe II
Historia de las Islas Filipinas vol. 1 y 2."
The information that I have found is that:
Guido de Lavezaris and Ines Alvarez Gibraleon were the parents of Ana Monterey who married Captain Juan de Moron. There are no signs that she was also married to Benito de Islas. Ana was alive when her father passed away because I found her named in court records dated after his death. The court records have been preserved in Mexico.
Rick A Ricci
Mr. Ricci,
theres more about the benito de Ysla an Magdalena Labesares story and is explained better on this thread
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/22972
Danny C. Alonso
Hello Danny,
Thank you for sending me the thread. I don't read all of the posts and obviously have missed joining that thread. I occasionally post information from my Villalpando research. I descend from your ancestor Mariana Villalpandos brother. If you look at my last post on Villalpandos you will see that I had found Ysabel Losano de Gardeas parents. If I had paid attention to these posts, then I could have saved myself a lot of work as her parents are identified in the thread that you pointed out.
I also did not have guido el viejos two marriages.
I am still wondering where Guido juniors daughters surname of Monterey came from. With a respectable source stating that they didn't have children, and Ana having the surname Monterey, I wonder if she was adopted by Guido Lavesares and Ines Alvarez. Court records do name her as a daughter.
I have an interesting story about Guidos daughter in my book.
Thanks again,
Rick A Ricci
Por suuesto, Guido de Lavezares, personaje de novela, Marco Polo alteño, pasó a Nueva España con su hermana, Maria de Lavezares y su cuñado Berardino de Isla. En Nochistlán existe una vasta descendencia de ellos. Creo que Bill Figueroa le puede dar pormenores.
Saludos
GTT
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de claudiacasillas@gmail.com
Enviado el: Sábado, 24 de Julio de 2010 08:31 a.m.
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Guido de Lavezares, su padre Sebastian y los Gonzalez de Isla en Espana
Hola y saludos a todos aqu en Nuestros Ranchos.
Tengo tiempo buscando documentacin de los orgenes espaoles de la familia Gonzlez de Isla, que vivieron en Nochistlan en el siglo XVII.
Yo desciendo - igual como muchos en este foro - de Bernardino Gonzlez de Isla, casado en 21 Apr 1631 (Nochistlan) con Mariana de Moscoso y Sandoval.
Encontr en PARES, Archivo de Simancas, un documento:
RESUMEN:
Ttulo de la unidad: "Juro a favor de Magdalena de Besares , Bartolom de Isla , Sebastin Besares y Bernardina de Isla"
Archivo: Archivo General de Simancas
Signatura: CME,447,64
?Alguien sabe como es que estan estos individuos conectados a MAGDALENA DE LA BESARES, madre de Bernardino Gonzalez de Isla?
Lo que si se es que la pareja mencionada en el archivo de 1550s son padres de Sebastian de la Besares, quien fue padre de Guido de Lavesares...ya mencionado en este foro.
Quien puede ayudarme a conectar estos individuos? Por favor indicar fuentes para que pueda yo estudiarlo con calma.
Muchisimas gracias a todos.
-Claudia
Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
I'm looking for the parents of Lorenzo Tadeo Macias de Ayala and Ana Maria
Romero. I cant find the marriage.
Hi Danny,
Yeah, we do have a lot of the same ancestors. I think your Alonso's intermarried with my Cuellar's repeatedly. On my tree I know of at least 6 or 7 times that Cuellar's married Alonso's, so, we will probably have many more relatives in common.
Chris
Hi Danny,
My records agree with what Chris posted:
Anna de Ayala Cortes was daughter of Alferez Real Andres de Ayala and Beatriz Ortiz (aka Beatriz Cortes aka Beatriz Peguero), b. 18 Aug 1653, Ags:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6QQ9-TWX?wc=M99K-S5T%3An92…
Her father, Andres de Ayala, was son of Juan Montoro Guzman “El Mozo” and Catalina de Ayala; Juan Montoro Guzman was son of Juan Montoro “El Viejo” (founder of Aguascalientes) and Maria Rodriguez, both from Jerez de la Frontera, Cadiz, Spain. I don’t have Catalina de Ayala’s ancestry. Andres and his sister Catalina used their mother’s surname, while their siblings used “Montoro” or “Rodriguez.” Most of their records have been indexed, so you should be able to find them at familysearch.
I have Andres de Ayala as a testigo on some documents, so we have his approximate birth year (1602-1604):
29 Jul 1654, ordenes for Antonio Sotelo, gives age as 51 (1603). Signed his name “Andres de Ayala.”
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DV1C-J?wc=3JWL-YWG%3A17193…
29 Nov 1659, ordenes for Juan Lopez de Lizaldi; age 55 (1604) Names him Alferez Mayor y Teniente de ? I can’t make out the abbreviation. Signed his name “Andres de Aiala.”
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DJRT-L?i=622&wc=3JW2-K68%3…
25 Nov 1668, ordenes for Melchor Marin de Peñalosa; age age 66 (1602) “Andres de Aiala.”
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DNGR-J?wc=3JW2-W3D%3A17193…
By the way, the aspirants on that roll are from Aguascalientes, so you’ll find members of families from your other Ags lines. And check out ALL of the testigos: Andres Ayala, Juan de Huerta, Lucas Orosco de Santa Cruz, and others - they give their approximate ages.
You’ll find more documents on Andres Ayala and Nicolas Ramirez Valades at the Aguascalientes Acervos Historicos website, with notary records regarding testaments, land sales, loans, etc. You likely know about that site, but if you don’t, let us know.
By the way, Danny, I'm assuming you're "Alonso de los Hinojos" or "Ynojos"? If so, I do a lot of deep research through the San Luis Potosi archives, and I see a lot of "Alonso de los Ynojos." Does your line come from SLP? I'll start flagging what I find.
Saludos!
Su primo,
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Manny,
thank you very much for this information. this is great. Im glad I know for sure now about Anna de Ayala Cortes. and, yes my Alonso's were originally Alonso de los Hinojos, i didnt know that until just a few months ago. Here's my Alonso line
http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Alonso-154
Danny C. Alonso
Thank you Christopher, this was great info. We have so many of the same
ancestors
Danny C. Alonso
Thank you Esther for the information. It was very helpful.
Danny C. Alonso
Hi Danny,
Rosalia's parents Lorenzo Tadeo Macías de Ayala and Anna María Romero Maturano are my 8th great grandparents. Based on their children's baptism's, Lorenzo Tadeo Macías de Ayala and Anna María Romero Maturano would've married sometime before 1737. I haven't been able to locate their marriage and I've spent quite sometime searching in multiple locations, including the most probable locations of Teocaltiche and Aguascalientes, and couldn't find it.
Back to the parents. Anna María Romero Maturano is the daughter of Juan Antonio Romero Maturano and María Íñiguez.
Anna María Romero Maturano also had a sibling named Joseph María Romero Maturano that married in Teocaltiche in 1734:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19052-56681-40?cc=1874591&wc…
Anna María Romero Maturano died in Aguascalientes on 29 Nov 1761:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11601-43336-81?cc=1502404&…
Lorenzo Tadeo Macías de Ayala was born Aug 1709 and is the son of Phelipe Macías de Ayala and María de Nájara:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-13033-25901-4?cc=1502404&w…
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11082-70315-51?cc=1502404&…
Phelipe Macías de Ayala and María de Nájara were married 11 Apr 1699 in Aguascalientes. María de Nájara is the daughter of Gerónimo de Nájara and Nicolasa de Amaya. Phelipe Macías de Ayala is the son of Nicolás Ramírez Valadéz and Ana de Ayala:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30428-28?cc=1502404&…
María de Nájara was born and baptized Aug 1674:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12047-88987-79?cc=1502404&…
Phelipe Macías de Ayala was born and baptized Jun 1675:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12047-87826-81?cc=1502404&…
Nicolás Ramírez Valadéz and Ana de Ayala were married in Aguascalientes, 18 May 1672:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30232-70?cc=1502404&…
I'm not sure who the parents of Ana de Ayala are, but she also uses the name Ana de Ayala y Cortés, so, in all probability she's the daughter of Andrés de Ayala and Beatríz Cortés (aka Beatríz Rangel). That would also correspond to this baptism:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-50594-96?cc=1502404&…
Nicolás Ramírez Valadez (aka Nicolás Macías Valadez) is probably the son of Nicolás Ramírez and María de Siordia, and that would correspond to this baptism:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-52031-26?cc=1502404&…
Christopher de Cuellar
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenn…~
I am not sure I linked these names properly but check it out on
FamilySearch above link. If it doesn't work or if you already have these
names let me know.
Esther
On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 7:45 PM, Danny Alonso wrote:
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
> I'm looking for the parents of Lorenzo Tadeo Macias de Ayala and Ana Maria
> Romero. I cant find the marriage. Does anyone in the Nuestros Ranchos Forum
> have information on them. Theyre on the wikitree but it doesn't list the
> parents.
> http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Mac%C3%ADas-353
>
> Danny C. Alonso
Can someone help me find Family Search Film 299531.
This film is filed under Cieneguila, Aguascalientes; this is the film of San Jose baptisms beginning in 1766.
George Fulton
Greetings,
I have found an ancestor from Tepetongo Zacatecas in 1822.
The name is George and not Jorge. Does anyone know why?
my best,
Mario
Greetings,
I have found an ancestor from Tepetongo Zacatecas in 1822.
The name is George and not Jorge. Does anyone know why?
my best,
Mario
My 7th GG Great Grandmother is "Maria De La Candelaria Angon (1655 - 1735).
Hi Simona,
The name is Pedro Rodríguez de Loaiza. You can find his tree here:
http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Rodr%C3%ADguez_de_Loaiza-1
Christopher de Cuellar
Thank you Christopher. I was able to connect a few records and discover 3 marriages of the 4 children I didn't know. There are a possibility of several more children missing. Pedro Rodriguez de Loaiza (I) record ID in Familysearch is the following L2MY-V1B. Thanks again for your help.
I'm wondering if there is anyone in the forum that has any information on Nicolas Ponce, also known as, Nicolas Simon Rodriguez Ponce and his wife Antonia Jimenez.
Chris,
I have an ancestor named Juana Rodriguez Ponce married to Joseph Ornelas,
she might be related to your Rodriguez Ponce. The names of her parents are
Bartolome Rodriguez Bajo and Teresa Rodriguez
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-65T9-3P1?i=305&wc=M99K-3ZB…
Danny C. Alonso
Hi Danny,
Thanks for the information. Bartolome Rodriguez Bajo and Teresa Ponce do fit the timeframe, and kind of make sense, as the parents of my Nicolas Ponce, I just don't have any proof. Teresa Ponce's father is Nicolas, so it would make sense that she would name a son Nicolas. Plus, my Nicolas named a daughter Teresa, which would also make sense, I just need to locate a record proving the connection. Thanks Danny.
Chris
Chris
I checked my index of Aguascalientes matrimonial investigations, which goes only to 1736, but unfortunately I did not find this couple.
George Fulton
Hi George,
Thanks for checking. The first child I can find of Nicolas Ponce and Antonia Jimenez is Teresa Ponce born in 1714 and baptized on 8 December 1714 in Teocaltiche, so they probably were married sometime around 1713 in Aguascalientes or Teocaltiche, but, I haven't been able to locate their marriage yet. I have other Rodriguez Ponce's in my tree and I was hoping to connect them all. Hopefully, I can locate the marriage soon.
Chris
Busco la defunción de mi abuela Crecencia Romo Rodríguez.
Did you actually need the defunción or were you just trying to find out who the grandparents are? Because the baptism of Crescencia tells who the grandparents are: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11545-145319-73?cc=1502404…
Crescencia is listed as the illegitimate daughter of Luz Romo and Maria del Refugio Rodriguez. Her paternal grandparents are listed as Ynocencio Romo and Gumesinda Olmos. Her maternal grandparents are listed as Gerbasio Rodriguez and Antonia Palos. The padrinos are Ramon Lopez and Juana Lopez
Christopher de Cuellar
________________________________
From: "aderomo@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 10:38 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Defuncion de Crecencia Romo Rodriguez
Busco la defunción de mi abuela Crecencia Romo Rodríguez. Ella nació 23 de abril l885 in Aguascalientes, hija de Luz Romo Olmos y Maria del Refugio Rodríguez Romo Crecencia murió in Aguascalientes cuando mi mama era una niña chica. Por fotos que tengo de mi mama cuando vivía con su madrastra y padre he buscado la defunción en los libros de 1915, 1916 y 1917. Fui a los Archivos de Aguascalientes, me mandaron a la oficina que tiene los
Archivos antiguos. Los libros no tenían índice y como no se que año murió no pude localizarla. De allí me dijeron que en el panteón tendrían la fecha que murió. Fui al panteón de los Ángeles y me dijeron que se les había n perdido toda información antes de 1929. Encontré a una prima por lado de mi abuela Crecencia y me dijo que mi mama vivió unos anos con su tía hermana de su mama. Con esta información he buscado el acta de defunción en los libros de 1913 y 1914. I have hit a solid brick wall Necesito sugerencias en
donde mas puedo buscar esta información. Como no conocí a mi abuela maternal o mi abuela paternal quisiera tener una poca de información sobre ellas.
Hi Christopher,
I already have a copy of my grandmother's baptismal records. Also all her ancestors all the way back to Diego Romo de Vivar. Since Crecencia died at such an early age I would like to know at what age my mother lost her mother and what was the cause of her death. But, thank you for taking the time to check on her records.
Aurora
Hi Aurora,
Yeah, I thought you might be specifically looking for the defunción. I have lots of records of Romos in my files from Encarnación and Aguascalientes in the 18th and 19th century, I'll look and see if any of them might be connected to yours.
Chris
________________________________
From: "aderomo@msn.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 9:47 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Crecencia Romo
Hi Christopher,
I already have a copy of my grandmother's baptismal records. Also all her ancestors all the way back to Diego Romo de Vivar. Since Crecencia died at such an early age I would like to know at what age my mother lost her mother and what was the cause of her death. But, thank you for taking the time to check on her records.
Aurora
Hi Simona,
The name is Pedro Rodríguez de Loaiza. You can find his tree here:
http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Rodr%C3%ADguez_de_Loaiza-1
Christopher de Cuellar
In the marriage of Jose Rosalino Gutierrez and Maria Francisca Diaz in Jalostitlan on June 8, 1804, does it say that he was married before to a Juana Micaela Basquez and that she had died in 1801 and
Emilie,
I'm not sure Im the only one, but your link doesn't bring me to an actual
record.
Danny C. Alonso
On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:
> In the marriage of Jose Rosalino Gutierrez and Maria Francisca Diaz in
> Jalostitlan on June 8, 1804, does it say that he was married before to a
> Juana Micaela Basquez and that she had died in 1801 and was buried in San
> Miguel Ayuda? Was he from Maravilla and Francisca from Jalostitlan? I
> think it lists her parents who are both deceased, but I don't think I see
> his parents listed.
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XYB6-8?i=134&owc=collectio…
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
>
I am very computer illiterate, and old (77). Sorry.
Emilie
> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 21:45:10 -0800
> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need translation help
>
> Emilie,
>
>
> I'm not sure Im the only one, but your link doesn't bring me to an actual
> record.
>
>
> Danny C. Alonso
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Emilie Garcia
> wrote:
>
> > In the marriage of Jose Rosalino Gutierrez and Maria Francisca Diaz in
> > Jalostitlan on June 8, 1804, does it say that he was married before to a
> > Juana Micaela Basquez and that she had died in 1801 and was buried in San
> > Miguel Ayuda? Was he from Maravilla and Francisca from Jalostitlan? I
> > think it lists her parents who are both deceased, but I don't think I see
> > his parents listed.
> >
> >
> > https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XYB6-8?i=134&owc=collectio…
> >
> > Thank you in advance,
> >
> > Emilie
> > Port Orchard, WA
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
Everything seems to have changed in Family Search. I used to be able to forward a link to a certain image, but I don't know how to do that now. I did see something on the bottom of the image that might be the correct link:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-25601-34?cc=1874591 : accessed 14 November 2015), Jalostotitlán > Nuestra Señora de la Asunción > Matrimonios 1800-1816 > image 135 of 565; parroquias Católicas, Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco).
> From: auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 23:44:56 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need translation help
>
> I am very computer illiterate, and old (77). Sorry.
>
> Emilie
>
> > Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 21:45:10 -0800
> > From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need translation help
> >
> > Emilie,
> >
> >
> > I'm not sure Im the only one, but your link doesn't bring me to an actual
> > record.
> >
> >
> > Danny C. Alonso
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Emilie Garcia
> > wrote:
> >
> > > In the marriage of Jose Rosalino Gutierrez and Maria Francisca Diaz in
> > > Jalostitlan on June 8, 1804, does it say that he was married before to a
> > > Juana Micaela Basquez and that she had died in 1801 and was buried in San
> > > Miguel Ayuda? Was he from Maravilla and Francisca from Jalostitlan? I
> > > think it lists her parents who are both deceased, but I don't think I see
> > > his parents listed.
> > >
> > >
> > > https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XYB6-8?i=134&owc=collectio…
> > >
> > > Thank you in advance,
> > >
> > > Emilie
> > > Port Orchard, WA
> > >
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Emilie,
Yay, the second link worked! Yes, you are correct. The document does state
that his first wife was Juana Micaela Basquez who died three years before
the date of this marriage and was in fact buried in San Miguel Ayuda. It
states that both are from Jalostitlan - Jose Rosalino from La Maravilla and
Francisco from Jerusalen (I assume these were the names of the ranchos or
haciendas). It also states her parents as being Antonio Diaz and Ana Juliana
Romo. It is not uncommon for a widower not to have parents listed, you need
to find the record for his first marriage or maybe the informaciones
matrimoniales for that information.
-Angelina-
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Emilie Garcia
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > In the marriage of Jose Rosalino Gutierrez and Maria Francisca Diaz in
> > > Jalostitlan on June 8, 1804, does it say that he was married before to
> > > a
> > > Juana Micaela Basquez and that she had died in 1801 and was buried in
> > > San
> > > Miguel Ayuda? Was he from Maravilla and Francisca from Jalostitlan?
> > > I
> > > think it lists her parents who are both deceased, but I don't think I
> > > see
> > > his parents listed.
Glad it worked, Angelina,
I am so slow to pick up on the new things. I have been using FamilySearch since it went online, and I never knew all the things you can find on it. My adopted daughter was over here this afternoon, and she has only discovered FamilySearch recently but already she knows how to find things I never knew were there. She helped me find my marriage record from California on it, and it has the wrong date! Now I will have to contact Sacramento to tell them to change it to the correct date.
Thanks for the translation,
Emilie
> From: angelina@markleweb.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 15:28:46 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] FW: Need translation help (Emilie Garcia)
>
> Emilie,
>
> Yay, the second link worked! Yes, you are correct. The document does state
> that his first wife was Juana Micaela Basquez who died three years before
> the date of this marriage and was in fact buried in San Miguel Ayuda. It
> states that both are from Jalostitlan - Jose Rosalino from La Maravilla and
> Francisco from Jerusalen (I assume these were the names of the ranchos or
> haciendas). It also states her parents as being Antonio Diaz and Ana Juliana
> Romo. It is not uncommon for a widower not to have parents listed, you need
> to find the record for his first marriage or maybe the informaciones
> matrimoniales for that information.
>
> -Angelina-
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Emilie Garcia
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > In the marriage of Jose Rosalino Gutierrez and Maria Francisca Diaz in
> > > > Jalostitlan on June 8, 1804, does it say that he was married before to
> > > > a
> > > > Juana Micaela Basquez and that she had died in 1801 and was buried in
> > > > San
> > > > Miguel Ayuda? Was he from Maravilla and Francisca from Jalostitlan?
> > > > I
> > > > think it lists her parents who are both deceased, but I don't think I
> > > > see
> > > > his parents listed.
>
Hi Emile,
Yes, Jose Rosalino was previously married to Juana Micaela Vasquez. Juana Micaela was buried in San Miguel (San Miguel el Alto) which at the the time the town church was an affiliated church (ayuda de esta parroquia) of Jalostotitlan. Maria Francisca was from the ranch el Jerusalem, daughter of Antonio Diaz and Juliana Romo (both deceased at the time of the marriage).
Best regards,
Austin Perez
I am trying to help a friend with her family tree. She is descended from Tomas Vital and Ygnacia Gutierrez of Jalisco.
Dear Emilie,
My wife descends from Josef Maria Ramon Ybarra Alias Vital, born 1768 in San Pedro Piedragorda, Jalisco and his wife, Anna Maria Plasencia.
She descends from them through their daughter Maria Gertrudis Ibarra Elias Vital, and her husband, Domingo Hernandez-Gamino who married on 23/Dec/1812 in Arandas, Jalisco
Ramon is the son of Juan Jose Ibarra and Josefa Gertrudis Quesada.
Name Jose Tomas Eliaz De Ybarra
Spouse's Name Ygnacia Gutierrez
Event Date 21 Oct 1820
Event Place Nuestra Senora De La Asuncion,Jalostotitlan,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Ramon Elias De Ybarra
Mother's Name Anna Maria Placencia
Spouse's Father's Name Jose Rosalio Gutierrez
Spouse's Mother's Name Maria Francisca Diaz
Name Josef Maria Ramon Ibarra
Birth Date 1768
Age 23
Spouse's Name Ana Maria Plasencia
Spouse's Birth Date 1765
Spouse's Age 26
Event Date 14 Dec 1791
Event Place La Inmaculada Concepcion,San Diego De Alejandria,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Juan Josef Ibarra
Mother's Name Josefa Getrudes Quesada
Spouse's Father's Name Vicente Plasencia
Spouse's Mother's Name Maria Marcela Magana
Name Jose Guadalupe Ybarra
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 19 Apr 1848
Event Place Santa María de Guadalupe, Arandas, Jalisco, Mexico
Gender Male
Birth Date 14 Apr 1848
Birthplace Saucito
Father's Name Tomaz Ybarra
Mother's Name Ygnacia Gutierres
Paternal Grandfather's Name Ramon Ybarra
Paternal Grandmother's Name Juana Plasencia
Maternal Grandfather's Name Rozalino Gutierres
Maternal Grandmother's Name Francisca Diaz
Rick A Ricci
Saludos a todos,
Hice una buscada de "Francisco Cano" en pars y dice:
"Testimonio del descubrimiento y población de la Laguna del Nuevo México por Francisco Cano, teniente de alcalde mayor de las minas de Masapil, en Nueva Galicia. Nueva Galicia, 8 de noviembre de 1568"
Reference no: PATRONATO,22,R.3
para buscar en pars: http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest
Thanks for this mailing for Francisco Cano; but I can't find any references to him and 1889 Burgos Mexico. Perhaps I don't know how to use their search engine.
From: "zacatecano020@hotmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2015 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] TESTAMENTOS MAZAPIL SIGLO
Hice una buscada de "Francisco Cano" en pars y dice: "Testimonio del
descubrimiento y población de la Laguna del Nuevo México por Francisco
Cano, teniente de alcalde mayor de las minas de Masapil, en Nueva Galicia.
Nueva Galicia, 8 de noviembre de 1568" Reference no: PATRONATO,22,R.3 para
buscar en pars: http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/web/guest
Hello All,
I have seen it several times, and I have two possible explanations.
A very close relative of mine used to help his father who was in charge of their town's civil registry, and this person told me that at times, they knowingly recorded the wrong dates on purpose because the informants requested it that way for whatever reason. Not all civil registries worked like this, though, and some were very strict when recording dates.
Another possibility could be something similar to the story my mother and grandmother told me. My mom was born on August 28, and was baptized soon after that. My grandparents procrastinated a lot and did not go to the civil registry until months after the event. They found out that in that specific registry, if people recorded a birth more than 30 days late, they were charged a fine. I'm not sure how expensive it was, but in order to avoid that fine, my mom was registered as being born on September 28. Throughout her life, her official birth date was on September, but we always celebrated her on August 28.
Just like the other member commenting, in case of discrepancies, I usually go with the birth recorded on the baptism record, because most people tended to be more honest with the church.
I recently came across the civil birth certificate for a great uncle. It says he was born 19 May 1892. But his brother was born, according to his baptismal record, 10 May 1892. Sometimes this is such a headache. ;-p
Yes, some times, the civil registrations where until after the Revolution not that accurate (and to that we add that other
times neither the baptisms were), I've seen more cases around that time which coincides with the Revolution days, this is because many of the original records were lost, later in time people came back the civil register and gave the wrong dates, some times they were simply misunderstood, there were also hand-made copies done to rescue some documents in bad shape that ultimately led to many errors in the transcriptions. All in all I wouldn't dare to say that those mistakes are "common" but they do happened often in that period. On my on family I have been founding that many "facts" that we have taken for granted were rather incorrect, dates, ages, and names, even on my parents days that were the 40's.
If I would choose between the two documents I would go with the baptism, simply because peoples faith made that event more significant than going to the city hall for registrations (in those days), some times they would not go right away or they would send a family member other than the parents, or an acquaintance/employee to give the information, and rarely retrieve it, making them unknown of the possible errors.
Baptism Info