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By The Genealogist |

Hello,

I have recently discovered that I descend from a Benito de Isla whose many descendants spread throughout Nochistlan. I hit the brick wall there, and I do not know who Benito’s wife was. Normally I would assume that the traceable ancestry ends there. However, I have spotted miscellaneously placed postings that allude to a specific ancestry for Benito de Isla and his unnamed wife when they are all placed together. Unfortunately I have been unable to pinpoint the sources for most of these postings – this is where I need help.

But to start with:

PART 1: What is Provable:

From the primary sources that I have been able to access and see with my own eyes, I have mapped out the following:

Benito de Isla was the father of Magdalena de Lavezaris (wife of Francisco Gonzalez) and Maria de Isla y Moctezuma (wife of Capitan Andres Martinez de Sotomayor). This same Benito de Isla also had a natural mestiza daughter named Maria de Isla.

There is another Maria de Isla who was married to Christobal Martinez Lozano and had a family in Aguascalientes. This Maria de Isla (wife of Christobal Martinez Lozano) had a sister named Petronila de Isla.

PART 2: What I suspect (Part A): The Maria de Isla’s:

I think that the Maria de Isla (the mestiza) is possibly one and the same with the Maria de Isla who was married to Christobal Martinez Lozano. However, I have not seen this Maria de Isla (wife of Christobal Martinez Lozano) ever mentioned as anything but “espanol;” the same goes for her children. Then again I have seen many examples within these Mexican colonial records were people who are more accurately and originally described as mixed race, appear later in life described as “espanol”. If these two Maria de Isla’s are the same person then Benito de Isla is also the father of Petronila de Isla.

I do not think the Maria de Isla (wife of Chritobal Martinez Lozano) is the same person as Maria de Isla y Moctezuma (wife of Capitan Andres Martinez de Sotomayor). There seem to be too many children born to both of these women to be same one.

Does anyone have any opinions on this?

PART 2: What I suspect (Part B): The Lavezaris Connection:

Since Benito de Isla had a daughter who used the name Magdalena de Lavezaris. That name must have come from somewhere further back. I think that Benito de Isla is the son of a Bernardino de Isla and another Magdalena de Lavezaris who was the sister of Guido de Lavezaris, Governor-General of the Philippines.

Does anyone have any opinions on this?

PART 2: What I suspect (Part C): The Moctezuma Connection:

Since Benito de Isla had a daughter who used the name Maria de Isla y Moctezuma. That name must have come from somewhere further back. I suspect the connection was matrilineal but have never seen a wife listed for Benito de Isla from my own research. (Benito de Isla possibly being the father of Petronila de Isla also comes into play here.)

I have spotted a few interesting postings that allude to Benito de Isla’s wife. However, they are un-sourced postings, I have been unable to make contact with the people who posted them, and have not been able to pinpoint any primary sources for the following:

From other’s Postings:

1. I have seen a forum (here at Nuestros Ranchos) where a Petronila de Isla is described as being the daughter of a Benito de Isla and a Juana Navarro. I have been unable to contact the person who posted this. Does anyone know where this information comes from?

2. I have seen a tree on Ancestry.com where Benito de Isla is married to a Juana Navarro. Here Juana Navarro dies 28 Dec 1651 in Teocaltiche. The death records in Teocaltiche do not go back that far. Does anyone know where this information comes from?

3. In another tree on Ancestry.com, Benito de Isla is married to a Juana “Navarro y Moctezuma.” Wonderful, if her name actually appears this way, but does anyone know where this information comes from?

4. I have seen forums of the couple Martin de Gabay Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma as having 4 children: Ana-Francisca, Maria, Christobal, and JUANA. Ana-Francisca, Maria, and Christobal are provable children via various dispensas. But where does the information of this couple also having a daughter named Juana come from? Does anyone know?

PART 3 Conclusions?:

All of this starts to lean in a certain direction. Let us assume that, outside of what is provable, what I suspect is true and what others have posted is also true; that all that is needed is to pinpoint a few more sources. Then the following is a possible reconstruction of the whole picture:

Benito de Isla (son of Bernardino de Isla and Magdalena de Lavezaris) married a Juana Navarro (daughter of Martin de Gabay Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma) and had as daughters Magdalena de Lavezaris (named after her paternal grandmother), Maria de Isla y Moctezuma (partially named after her maternal grandmother), Petronila de Isla (also partially named after her maternal grandmother), with the additional Maria de Isla (the Mestiza daughter born from another woman).

Chronologically it fits, though a little tight on Petronila de Moctezuma’s side if we assume she was born about 1552, allegedly had the said Juana by 1572, Juana having Magdalena de Lavezaris and Maria de Isla y Moctezuma by the time she was age 15 c. 1587, and both Madalena and Maria also starting to have children by about age 15, since most of their traceable children have their earliest estimated birth years in the late 1600’s early 1610’s. Keep in mind that 15 is a typical age for young girls to marry in this time period.

I would appreciate any opinions, corrections, or primary sources on these matters which may prove or refute the possible reconstruction of this tree.

Regards,

David

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Jorge

3 years 5 months ago

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Buenos dias David,

Just a small comment about the colonial records, regarding your sentence:

"I have seen many examples within these Mexican colonial records were people who are more accurately and originally described as mixed race, appear later in life described as “español”".

Probably you already know but it might be interesting for the rest of the community NR, in the colonial Mexico the "castas" were defined according to the origins of the parents and it was possible to consider a mixed race as "español" after the third generation.

If an "español" married an "india" the children are "mestizos", if a "mestizo" maried an "español" the children were "castizos". If a castizo married an "español", the children were considered "españoles".

That is why some of them appear later in life as "español".

A complete clasification of the "castas" can be found in;

https://www.significados.com/castas-de-la-nueva-espana/

Regards

Jorge

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245luigi

4 years 4 months ago

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To my knowledge the only source of this info is JH Letters "Juana Navarro, wife of Benito de Isla, was buried in Teocaltiche on 28 Dec 1651. The albaceas of her will were Antonio de Ruvalcaba and Miguel Martínez de Alarcón, vecinos de Teocaltiche. This information was extracted from an unmicrofilmed death record in Teocaltiche." But there is no transcription of what was in the record and no information on who this Benito de Isla was.

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The Genealogist

9 years 4 months ago

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I just noticed that the scribe who penned Isabel de Moctezuma’s will in 1550 was a Diego de Isla. I wonder if he is related to our Benito de Isla. If so, this would show that there has been an affiliation between the “Islas” and the “Moctezumas” from as early as 1550 and might explain why one of Benito’s daughters born by about 1600 used the name “Maria de Isla y Moctezuma.”

What still needs to be determined is who from the Moctezuma clan married over to the Isla clan for Benito’s daughter to use the name “Moctezuma”?

Denise,

I noticed an archival post of yours regarding the Sotelo Moctezuma where
you posted the defunción of doña Francisca Sotelo and her testamento before
the juéz público, Diego de Isla Heredia. Perhaps, there's a connection
between the judge Diego de Isla Heredia and the royal scribe Diego de Isla.

doña Francisca Sotelo:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18758-5851-92?cc=1883388&wc=…

Original post:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21898#comment-26369

Paige

Hi Paige
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. The two Diegos are about eighty years apart, so the latter Diego could be a grandson of the former...only way to find out is to do sone digging Family Search! I am leaving soon on vacation to a place with no internet, so it will be a while before i can post anything on this, unless i find something tonight. Incidentally, a son (or was it grandson?)of Diego Arias sotelo and leonor valderrama moctezuma married a woman with the name Heredia. See more info on this in Moctezuma's Children.

Regards
Denise

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The Genealogist

9 years 5 months ago

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4 Other Thoughts:

1. Elvira de Islas and Maria de la Concepcion de Islas are provable sisters to each other as per the following dispensa:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-48327-39

Benito de Isla came alone and single to Mexico. If Elvira and Maria de la Concepcion were his sisters, then perhaps they came at a later date. However, Elvira and Maria de Concepcion being sisters to our Benito de Isla creates odd trucking issues which should have required dispenas, but as of yet we have not seen evidence for this. Until this evidence surfaces, we may have to assume that Elvira and Maria de la Concepcion may be related to our Benito de Isla in some other way (aunts, daughters, nieces, cousins?). Benito, Evlira and Maria de la Concepcion being cousins or cousins once removed seems to avoid the consanguinity that would require a dispensa.

If a dispensa exits for the marriage of Diego Delgadillo and Petrona de Isla, and if it can be found, it might reveal more.

2. Holcombe’s letter page 16:

“Juana Navarro, wife of Benito de Isla, was buried in Teocaltiche on 28 Dec 1651. The albaceas of her will were Antonio de Ruvalcaba and Miguel Martínez de Alarcón, vecinos de Teocaltiche. This information was extracted from an unmicrofilmed death record in Teocaltiche.”

Does anyone have a contact in Mexico who would be willing to physically verify this?

3. Has anyone spotted any evidence of the couple Martin de Gabay Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma having an additional daughter named Juana?

4.
Holcombe’s Letters pg 166:

“In Mexico City’s Castillo de Chapultepec is an oil painting made in the early 1700s of a woman that descended from the Aztec Emperor and had the surname Isla y Moctezuma. Said lady’s genealogy must have been investigated and is to be found somewhere.”

Does anyone know how to contact the Castillo de Chapultepec on this issue or have a contact in Mexico who would be willing to look into it?

If the said painting exits, maybe someone could take a picture of it and e-mail it to the rest of us. Who knows, we might get lucky. Sometimes those old colonial portraits would have a shield or boarder with genealogical information written right in the painting.

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The Genealogist

9 years 5 months ago

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Another piece of the puzzle for the family of Benito de Isla appears in this dispensa that can be viewed in 2 places:

1. Here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18411-52641-81?cc=1874591&wc…

2. And Here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18417-19400-14?cc=1874591&wc…

Holcombe also adds some details to this family in his letters pages 76 and 171.:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

For clarity, below is the tree of the dispensa with the additional details of Holcombe in brackets [ ].

Trunk … presumably Benito de Isla

Gonzalo Gomez...................1.......Maria de Isla
[m. c. 1628 Agustina Martin]............m. [Andres Martin de Sotomayor]

Antonio Gomez Garcia............2.......Margarita de Sotomayor
m. [Francisca Florez.d.l.Torre].........m. [N.N. de Leon]

Maria Blanca Gomez..............3.......Rosa Manuela de Leon
m. Pedro Alonso de Hinojos..............m. Pedro de Delgadillo

Nicolas Alonso de los Hinojo....4.......Petra de Delgadillo

[Other notes extracted from Holcombe’s letters page 171. Agustina Martin and Andres Martin de Sotomayor are both the children of Andres Martin Camacho and Maria de las Ruelas (de Sotomayor)] So two siblings from one family married two siblings from another.

Also, I have seen another dispensa showing that the name “Gomez” sometimes appeared as the compound “Gomez Garcia” in this family.

If the Maria de Isla in this dispensa truly is the same one that was married to Andres Martin de Sotomayor as Holcombe says, then our Benito de Isla was the father of Magdalena de Lavezaris (wife of Francisco Gonzalez Martinez), Maria de Isla y Moctezuma (wife of Andres Martin de Sotomayor), Gonzalo Gomez (husband of Agustina Martin), and a natural mestiza daughter Maria de Isla (who I suspect, though cannot prove, might be the same one who was married to Christobal Martinez Lozano (I), who also had a sister named Petronila de Isla).

And if what I just stated proves to be true, then how interesting that two daughters of Benito de Isla married two sons of Juan Lozano and Ynez Martinez Baca y Gonzalez, and two additional children of Benito de Isla married two children of Andres Martin Camacho and Maria de las Ruelas (de Sotomayor)

Finding marriage information surrounding Gonzalo Gomez who married c. 1628 Agustina Martin might reveal more about the family of our Benito de Isla since he is presumably his father.

Since both sides used so many surnames let’s keep an eye out for a Gonzalo Gomez/Garcia/de Isla being married to an Agustina Martin/Camacho/de las Ruelas/de Sotomayor.

Regards,

David

A long post script for those who are thorough:

Although Holcombe’s work sometimes has errors, I suspect he was correct regarding the Martin de Sotomayors and their connection to the Islas and Gomez Garcias.

I would advise looking at Holcombe’s letters pages 76 and 171.:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

Holcombe pg. 171.:

“…Andrés Martín y de Ma. de las Rroelas.” (She also used the surname Sotomayor). This couple was already married in 1603, … They had at least 12 children: [1]Jacinta (md 1619 Antonio Jiménez); [2]Agustina (md 1628 Gonzalo Gómez); … [10]Andrés (who married María de Isla [y Moctezuma]);…and [[12]]Ysabel (md [16]17 Juan Díaz de la Huerta).”

And then looking at the following 3 dipsensas, all of which can be worked out, with the aid of Holcombe’s Letters, to trunk with Andres Martin Camacho and Maria de las Ruelas (de Sotomayor:

1. Andres Martin de Sotomayor (husband of Maria de Isla y Moctezuma) and Ysabel Martin (wife of Juan Diaz de la Huerta) being brother and sister is confirmed in the following dispensa found here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18403-64936-14?cc=1874591&wc…

Trunk … Andres Martin Camacho m. Maria de las Ruelas (de Sotomayor)

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......1.......Ysabel Martin
m. Maria de Isla y Moctezuma............m. Juan Diaz de la Huerta

Andres Martin Camacho...........2.......Josefa Diaz
m. Beatriz de Mayorga...................m. N.N.

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......3.......Angela Diaz
........................................m. Isidro Villalobos

................................4.......Juana Cayatana de Villalobos

2. Nicolas Gomez Garcia (son of Antonio Gomez Garcia and Francisca Florez de la Torre) and Catalina de Ruvalcaba (daughter of Joseph de Ruvalcaba and Petrona Diaz)

Found here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18427-14986-39?cc=1874591&wc…

It says that the father of the husband (Antonio Gomez Garcia) and a grandmother of the wife (unkown by name to me) are first cousins.

Trunk … Andres Martin Camacho m. Maria de las Ruelas (de Sotomayor)

Agustina Martin...............1.........Ysabel Martin
m. Gonzalo Gomez........................m. Juan Diaz de la Huerta

Antonio Gomez Garcia..........2.........N.n. Diaz (maybe Josefa Diaz?)
m. Francisca Florez de la Torre.........m. N.N.

Nicolas Gomez Garcia..........3.........Petrona Diaz
........................................m. Joseph de Ruvalcaba

..............................4.........Catalina de Ruvalcaba

3. Alvaro Carrillo de Sandi (son of Nicolas Carrillo de Sandi and Agustina Jimenez de las Ruelas) and Josepha Gomez (daughter of Antonio Gomez Garcia and Francisca Florez de la Torre)

Found here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18427-14560-17?cc=1874591&wc…

It says that the mother of the husband (Agustina Jimenez de las Ruelas) and the father of the wife (Antonio Gomez Garcia) are first cousins.

Trunk … Andres Martin Camacho m. Maria de las Ruelas (de Sotomayor)

Jacinta de las Ruelas...........1.......Agustina Martin
m. Antonio Jimenez de Castaneda.........m. Gonzalo Gomez

Agustina Jimenez de las Ruelas..2.......Antonio Gomez Garcia
m. Nicolas Carrillo de Sandi............m. Francisca Florez de la Torre

Alvaro Carrillo de Sandi........3.......Petrona Diaz

This trucking may prove to be wrong, but between these dispenses and Holcombe’s letters filling in the blanks, all trunking with Andres Martin Camacho and Maria de la Ruelas (de Sotomayor), I am inclined to believe that Holcombe was right about: Antonio Gomez Garcia being the husband of Francisca Florez de la Torre, Gonzalo Gomez being the husband of Agustina Martin, and Maria de Isla, from the first dispensa before the post script, being the same one who was married to Andres Martin de Sotomayor.

What this means for our Benito de Isla is that he had an additional son, Gonzalo Gomez.

David,

I don't know if this helps but theres a wikitree for Petrona de Isla and
Diego Delgadillo. IT has her parents and has 1 of his parents. It looks
like 1 of his parents is Maria De La Conception de Islas, I don't know if
that's the same person mentioned or how accurate the tree
information is. There's also a book mentioned at the bottom the authors
name is Hilton, but, I don't have the book so I don't know what it says
about them. The wikitree is here... http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Islas-19

Danny C. Alonso

Danny,
The wikitree sited belongs to a member of NR and is quite well researched. The book referenced at the bottom is Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara Antiguo Obispado de la Nueva Galicia by Maria de la Luz Montejano Hilton. Here is the passage you're referring to:

Nochistlán. Zac. Diciembre 17 de 1716. Exp. 22 - Dispensa de tercero con cuarto grado de consanguinidad - Joseph González Lozano, español de 20 años de edad. vecino y natural de esta feligresía de Nochistlán, hijo legitimo de Bernardo González, español difunto vecino que fué de esta feligresía, y de Josepha Lozano, que vive: con María Díaz Montañez, española, doncella de 16 años de edad, hija legítima de Nicolás Díaz Montañez, español difunto, y de María Flores de Sandi, española vecina de esta feligresía. Declaración del pretenso: Mi madre y Petronila de Islas, bisabuela de María Díaz, fueron primas hermanas, hijas de dos hermanas que es segundo grado, y Mariana de Sandoval, abuela de la susodicha sobrina de mi madre en tercero grado, y María Flores de Sandi, mi prima en cuarto grado, y la dicha María Díaz se halla en quinto grado. Declaración de Bartolomé de la Dueña, español de 76 años de edad: Por ser la pretensa bisnieta de Mariana de Moscoso y Sandoval, y el pretenso nieto de Josepha de Moscoso y Sandoval, hermanas, la madre del pretenso Josepha Lozano y Petrona de Islas. primas hermanas, bisabuela de la pretensa, Joseph González pretenso y la abuela de la pretensa que lo fué Mariana Delgadillo. Se otorgó la dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara. en 22 de diciembre de 1716 12 fojas. 

Chris

Chris,

In your reference to the passage dated December 17, 1716 I noticed the names
Joseph Gonzalez Lozano and Maria Flores de Sandi. In researching my
ancestors in Nueva Galicia, I found a record dated September 17, 1752 that
records that baptism of Juana Maria Lozano Dias. The baptism was performed
in Teocaltiche and the parents are Juan Miguel Lozano (my ancestor) and
Lorenza Dias de Sandi. I was curious to know if you had seen any
relationships after 1716 between these two families. Thank you in advance
for any information you can provide.

Regards, Bob Lozano

Hi Bob,
Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the particular families mentioned in the dispensa or the specific couple Juan Miguel Lozano and Lorenza Diaz de Sandi. I just posted the information from Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara that was in question. I do have some Lozanos in my tree, but, most of them are in the 17th century. The most recent Lozano I have is my 8th Great Grandmother, Juana Manuela Lozano de Gardea that married Bartolome Joseph Martel, but, I do not know her parents or have any information beyond her. I also descend from Isabel Lozano de Gardea, my 12th Great Grandmother, the daughter of Cristóbal Lozano and Maríana González de Gardea.  Beyond that, I don't think I really have anything that will be of any help.

Chris

Hi Danny C. Alonso,

In answer to your questions, "Are the people on line 1, brother and sister and then the people in line 2 are 1st Cousins and then the people in line 3 are second cousins or is it read differently?"

The answer is, yes: "1" would be siblings, "2" are 1st cousins, "3" is 2nd cousins etc.

As many of the communities where our ancestors lived were isolated, the "marriage pools" were limited to the few families that lived in any given area. As a consequence, after 3 or 4 generations, everyone in town is your 2nd- or 3rd- cousin. To prevent inbreeding, the Church would "monitor" these couplings, and try to prevent them; recognizing that they couldn't, they would issue dispensations to those couples who qualified (this is a simplified explanation).

The Church used a system of degrees ("grados," in Spanish), to establish the severity of the consanguinity (related by blood) or affinity (related by marriage or an iilicit relationship) between a given couple:

Siblings: 1o (primero) grado
1st-cousins: 2o grado
2nd-cousins: 3o grado
3rd-cousins: 4o grado

Anything below 4o grado required a dispensation; anything more than 4o, they felt enough generations had passed, to prevent children from being "born with tails."

The dispensations sometimes contain a tree diagram, explaining the relationship, while on others, it might say, "the pretensos are great-grandchildren of 2 siblings," or, "the grandparents of the siblings were primos hermanos," whichout listing the names of the ancestors.

In case you don't have them, here is a link to the Guadalajara Marriage Dispensary, where many of the dispensations have been indexed: http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com/

And here's a link to Katy's Guadalajara dispensas indexes:
http://guadalajaradispensas.tumblr.com/

I hope that helps!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Thank you Manny for the information and the dispensations links, I finally
understand how to read them. I have a question about this tree here. On
Josefa Diaz under her it says m. N.N. does that mean she wasn't married
when she had Angela Diaz

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......1.......Ysabel Martin
m. Maria de Isla y Moctezuma............m. Juan Diaz de la Huerta

Andres Martin Camacho...........2.......Josefa Diaz
m. Beatriz de Mayorga...................m. N.N.

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......3.......Angela Diaz
........................................m. Isidro Villalobos

................................4.......Juana Cayatana de Villalobos

Danny C. Alonso

N.N. means they do not know the name of the spouse or person with whom they
had children.

N.N. - nomen nescio [Latin], name unknown
N.N. - non nominatus / non nominata' [Latin], not named

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 11:53 PM, Danny Alonso wrote:

> Thank you Manny for the information and the dispensations links, I finally
> understand how to read them. I have a question about this tree here. On
> Josefa Diaz under her it says m. N.N. does that mean she wasn't married
> when she had Angela Diaz
>
> Andres Martin de Sotomayor......1.......Ysabel Martin
> m. Maria de Isla y Moctezuma............m. Juan Diaz de la Huerta
>
> Andres Martin Camacho...........2.......Josefa Diaz
> m. Beatriz de Mayorga...................m. N.N.
>
> Andres Martin de Sotomayor......3.......Angela Diaz
> ........................................m. Isidro Villalobos
>
> ................................4.......Juana Cayatana de Villalobos
>
> Danny C. Alonso

Thank you Armando. Is there a reason they wouldn't name Josefa Diaz husband
or did they leave him out because he wasn't important to the tree? I have
some ancestors with the same names in the tree (villalobos & Sotomayor) and
am just trying to save everyone with the same names in case I find I'm
connected to them.

Danny C. Alonso

Always go to the source whenever there is a question about the data
extracted from a dispensa. There is no tree in the dispensa which means
that the tree was made by Jaime Holcombe based on what was written in the
document which says "*Isabel Marín y Andrés Martín fueron hermanos y la
dicha Isabel fue madre de Josefa Díaz y esta lo fue de Ángela Díaz quien lo
es de dicha Juana Cayetana......dicho Andrés Martín fue padre de Andrés
Martín y este lo es del pretenso*"

The father of Ángela Díaz was not named since he is not needed to determine
how the two people are related which is all they needed in order to be
granted the dispensa. The dispensa is indexed at
http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com/2011/12/1687-1749-1828-fhl-source-f…
and the dispensa starts at
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18403-64936-14

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 1:11 AM, Danny Alonso wrote:

> Thank you Armando. Is there a reason they wouldn't name Josefa Diaz husband
> or did they leave him out because he wasn't important to the tree? I have
> some ancestors with the same names in the tree (villalobos & Sotomayor) and
> am just trying to save everyone with the same names in case I find I'm
> connected to them.
>
> Danny C. Alonso

I have another question about this tree. Now that I understand how to read
them I wantd to know if any of these Andres Martin de Sotomayors are the
same as my Ancestor Andres Martin de Sotomayor married to Lucia Chaves or
where on the tree this Andres martin de Sotomayor fits in

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......1.......Ysabel Martin
m. Maria de Isla y Moctezuma............m. Juan Diaz de la Huerta

Andres Martin Camacho...........2.......Josefa Diaz
m. Beatriz de Mayorga...................m. N.N.

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......3.......Angela Diaz
........................................m. Isidro Villalobos

................................4.......Juana Cayatana de Villalobos

Danny C. Alonso

Hi Danny,

Your Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and the Andrés Martín de Sotomayor that's married to Juana Cayetana de Villalobos are both grandchildren of Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and María de Isla y Moctezuma.

Andrés Martín de Sotomayor that's married to Juana Cayetana de Villalobos is the son of Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and Beatriz de Mayorga. Your Andres Martín de Sotomayor that's married to Lucia de Chávez is the son of Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor and Simona López de la Cerda, my 9th great grandparents.

Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and María de Isla y Moctezuma

Andres Martín de Sotomayor...................1..................Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor
m. Beatriz de Mayorga................................................m. Simona López de la Cerda

Andres Martín de Sotomayor...................2.................Andres Martín de Sotomayor
m. Juana Cayetana de Villalobos................................m. Lucia de Chávez

Chris

Hi Danny,

Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and Lucía de Chávez were married in Aguascalientes on 8 Oct 1688. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30313-70?cc=1502404&…

The marriage record proves Lucía de Chávez is the daughter Diego de Chávez Fragoso and Antonia de Villalobos and Andrés Martín de Sotomayor is the son of Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor and Simona López de la Cerda.

Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor and Simona López de la Cerda were married in Teocaltiche on 17 Sep 1667. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19053-3386-35?cc=1874591

Simona López de la Cerda was the daughter of Agustín López de la Cerda and Lucía Rodríguez and Nicolás Martín de Sotomayor is the son of Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and María de Isla y Moctezuma.

Agustín López de la Cerda and Lucía Rodríguez were married in San Luis Potosi on 13 Nov 1635. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-20439-1732-39?cc=1860864

Agustín López de la Cerda is the son of Francisco López and Francisca de los Ángeles. Lucía Rodríguez is the daughter of Antonio Rodríguez and Catalina de Victoria.

Antonio Rodríguez and Catalina de Victoria were married 1 Jun 1601 in Pátzcuaro, Michoacán. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18745-47850-56?cc=1883388

Only the bride, Catalina de Victoria's parents were named. They are Hernando Díaz Infante and Juliana de Victoria. 

Chris
 

Hi Danny,
I'm not sure why Catalina de Victoria's parents are the only ones named. But, if you look at the marriage record, it says that Antonio Rodríguez was not in attendance at his wedding but was represented by Juan Diaz Ynfante. Maybe, because he wasn't there the scribe didn't record his parents names.
    
"En las casas de la morada de Hernando Diaz Yn-     
fante desta ciudad de Pazquaro, primero dia del mes de     
Junio de mill y seyscientos y un años, yo Juan Perez Poca-     
sangre, beneficiado della, despose y case por palabras de     
presente a Antonio Rodriguez, ausente, por persona de     
Juan Diaz Ynfante, con licencia que para ello traxo     
del provisor deste obispado, con Catalina de Vitoria,     
hija de Hernando Diaz Ynfante y de Juliana de Vitoria,     
vezinos desta dicha ciudad de Pazquaro, siendo testigos     
Hernando Parga y Francisco ? y Fernando Orhua,     
vezinos desta dicha ciudad.     

Juan Perez Pocasangre"

Chris

Chris,

Coincidentally, I am researching a couple in San Luis Potosi/Armadillo de los Infante who are contemporary with your Francisco Lopez and Francisca de los Angeles.

They are Domingo de Castro and Maria de los Angeles. “De los Angeles” appears to be a surname among their descendants, not an added tack-on to a personal name. Therefore I suspect that Maria de los Angeles and Francisca de los Angeles might be sisters.

Do you have any evidence that could support this? For example, do a Domingo de Castro or Maria de los Angeles appear as padrinos anywhere among the descendants of Francisco Lopez and Francisca de los Angeles?

Please let me know if they do,

Regards,

David

Hi David,
I actually haven't started researching this couple yet. Bill Figueroa mentions them here in relation to the Lopez de la Cerda: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20380?page=1  but, beyond that, I don't really have anything. The marriage of Agustín López de la Cerda and Lucía Rodríguez de Victoria says that Francisco López and Francisca de los Angeles are vecinos de Zacatecas, but, that's it. If I come across any mention of Domingo de Castro or María de los Angeles, I'll let you know. 
Chris

I wanted to clarify some things about the reason for the dispensas. The rules for marrying a relative started in the 11th century in Europe and I believe the rules still exist. My 5th great-grandfather from Vizcaya, País Vasco had to get a dispensa to marry his 2nd cousin. There likely weren't very many people in his region that he could marry that weren't related to him. This is probably the case in many parts of Europe. I have read about people doing genealogy and DNA testing in the British Isles and Ireland coming to the same conclusion. However, it was probably more common in Jalisco, Aguascalientes, and Zacatecas since the españoles wanted to maintain their status for themselves and their children and they had fewer people to choose a partner from. Many of the people in the dispensas mention that they want to marry someone from the same class but they can't find anyone that isn't related. So the marriage pool was even more limited due to the class limitation.

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9 years 5 months ago

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Manny,

Thank’s for the Ynes Gonzalez Martinez information. She is new to my files.

Armando,

Holcombe’s letters has road mapped to some new information. I will be posting this later.

Regards to all,

David

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Danny and Emilie,

You got lucky. Ysabel Lozano Gardea exists in my files. This is how you fit in:

Capitan Juan Lozano m. Ynes Martinez Baca y Gonzalez

Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) m. Maria de Isla

Christobal Martinez Lozano (II) m. Mariana Gonzalez/Perez de Gardea

Isabel Lozano y Perez de Gardea m. Diego de Villalpando

Mariana de Villalpando m. Antonio de Trillo

Maria de San Juan Belasco de Trillo m. Nicolas Garcia

I recommend looking up Isabel Lozano y Perez’s will dated 20 Oct 1702 in Aguascalientes

Go to: http://sigue.aguascalientes.gob.mx/axweb/login.aspx
User name: sigue.publica
Password: publica

Click on: SGG-ARCHIVO-HISTORICO - ACERVOS COLONIALES SIGLOS XVII A XIX
Where it says: CONTRATANTES Type: “Isabel Lozano y Perez” (without parenthesis)
Click the “Submit” button

Notes:

1. Ysabel Lozano y Perez de Gardea’s mother is named as “Mariana Lozano de Gardea.” The “Lozano” should be “Gonzalez” or “Perez.” This is an error by whoever wrote the will.

2. Mariana de Villalpando appears as “Maria Ana” in the will.

3. Page 3 of the will has a lot of genealogy information.

4. Also check out: http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/de%20Trillo-Family-Tree-37
But be sure to double check the sources.

Enjoy!

David

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On Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) & Francisco Gonzalez as Brothers.

Jaime Holcombe Isunza stated “A probable other son of Juan Lozano and Inés Martínez was Francisco González Martínez.” As seen on page 8 of:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

I had actually reached the same conclusion, within my own work. I had not mentioned it when I started this forum thread to maintain focus, but since it has come up, I will present it here. I feel that Christobal Martinez Lozano(I) and Francisco Gonzalez (husband of Magdalena de Lavezaris) were brothers for the following reasons:

1.)
Diego de Aguayo (son of Antonio de Aguayo and Elvira Gonzalez de Isla) and Gertrudis Lozano (daughter of Joseph Lozano and Petronila de Retamosa Mecias Valades Gonzalez de Gardea Tresalva) were married 12 Jan 1696 in Aguascalientes. They were related in the 4th degree, so this marriage required a dispensation which can be found here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-34074-16?cc=1874591&wc…

The dispensation does not actually map out the relation but says several times that the grandmother of the husband and the grandfather of the wife where first cousins. So with some detective work the following two dispensas prove that Elvira Gonzalez de Isla’s mother was Andrea Gonzalez de Isla (wife of Juan de la Cruz Bermejo) and that Andrea Gonzalez de Isla was the daughter of Magdalena de Lavezaris (wife of Francisco Gonzalez):

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18410-46928-97?cc=1874591&wc…

(this same record also appears at)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18413-80255-98?cc=1874591&wc…

&:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18403-16858-96?cc=1874591&wc…

Also, the following dispensa proves that Joseph Lozano was the son (probably a natural son) of Christobal Martinez Lozano (II) who was the son of Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) (husband of Maria de Isla):

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18404-43474-10?cc=1874591&wc…

Don’t forget the dispensa of Diego de Aguayo and Gertrudis Lozano. They are related in the 4th degree. The dispensa does not give specifics but goes as far as to say that the grandmother of the husband (now proven to be Andrea Gonzalez de Islas) and the grandfather of the wife (now proven to be Christobal Martinez Lozano (II)) are first cousins. Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) and Francisco Gonzalez being brothers fits the bill.

Francisco Gonzalez --- 1o (brothers) --- Christobal Martinez Lozano (I)
Andrea Gonzalez de Islas --- 2o (1st cousins) --- Christobal Martinez Lozano (II)
Elvira Gonzalez de Islas --- 3o --- Joseph Lozano
Diego de Aguayo --- 4o --- Gertrudis Lozano

2.)
Add to that the fact that “a” Francisco Gonzalez appears as a Padrino to Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) and Maria de Isla’s daughter Leonor, in which he is named as the brother of Christobal Martinez Lozano. Found here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-51575-11

3.)
Add to that the fact that at least one of Francisco Gonzalez’s (husband of Magdalena de Lavezaris) children used the name “Lozano.” In the will of Marcos Gonzalez Hidalgo dated 17 March 1670 in Aguascalientes, he names his wife as “Juana Gonzales Losano” and names his brother-in-laws as “mis cuñados Bernardino de Islas y Diego González de Islas…y mas el medio sito que trujo en dote la dicha mi mujer.” Bernardino [Gonzalez] de Islas and Diego Gonzalez de Islas are both known to be sons of Francisco Gonzalez and Magdalena de Lavezaris. So if Bernardino and Diego are Marcos’s brother-in-laws, they must be brothers of his wife Juana Gonzalez Lozano, who intern would also be a daughter of Francisco Gonzalez and Magdalena de Lavezaris.

4.)
Add to this what Manny Diez Hermosillo mentioned earlier about his Ines de Islas (wife of Christobal Mexia, daughter of Bernardino de Islas, granddaughter of Francisco Gonzalez and Magdalena de Lavezaris. This Ines de Isla appears as “Ynes Martinez Baca” in the baptism of her son Bernardino Mexia 25 June 1674 found here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15089-14833-43?cc=1804458&wc…

And as Manny Diez Hermosillo stated earlier: “This would imply that she was named for an ancestor, i.e., Ynes Martinez Baca y Gonzalez, who we know as the wife of Juan Lozano, and mother of Cristobal [Martinez] Lozano [I]. The obvious source would be Francisco Gonzalez Martinez, who could have taken his mother's surnames[.]”

I think we can consider the matter of Francisco Gonzalez (husband of Magdalena de Lavezaris) and Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) (husband of Maria de Isla) as being brothers solved and closed.

Regards,

David

P.S.
(This also leads me to believe that Juan Lozano (husband of Josefa de Moscoso y Sandoval Cortez) was also a son of Francisco Gonzalez and Magdalena de Lavezaris. They have one child that uses the name “Lozano” why not another. Several children of Francisco Gonzalez marry the children of Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and Catalina Cortez, this Juan Lozano may be another one of them.)

P.P.S.
For those who are following this thread extra close and are referencing the primary sources mentioned, you may have noticed that, in addition to the 4th degree relationship constantly mentioned in the dispensa of Diego de Aguayo and Gertrudis Lozano, at only one point it also mentions that the mother of the of the husband (Elvira Gonzalez de Isla) and the father of the wife (Joseph Lozano) are first cousins. I feel that this was a slight error on the part of the compiler of the dispensa, who was probably working under the notion that Joseph Lozano’s mother was Mariana Gonzalez de la Cruz Bermejo Perez de Gardea, however, she was not his mother as shown in the previously mentioned dispensa but repeated here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18404-43474-10?cc=1874591&wc…

Joseph Lozano was the son of Chritobal Martinez Lozano (II) and another woman (as of yet unknown).

Mariana Gonzalez de la Cruz Bermejo Perez de Gardea was the daughter of Alonso Martin Bermejo, Alcalde Ordinario de Aguascalientes, and Ysabel Perez de Gardea. Mariana was most likely the sister of Juan de la Cruz Bermejo (husband of Andrea Gonzalez de Isla) who had a daughter named Ysabel Perez de Gardea (most likely after her grandmother). The one reference in the dispensa of Diego de Aguayo and Gertrudis Lozano in which the mother of the of the husband (Elvira Gonzalez de Isla) and the father of the wife (Joseph Lozano) are first cousins, is probably meant in the following way:

Juan de la Cruz Bermejo --- 1o (siblings) --- Mariana (who is taken as the mother of Joseph Lozano though other evidence shows that she is not.)

Elvira Gonzalez de Isla --- 2o (supposed first cousins) --- Joseph Lozano
Diego de Aguayo --- 3o --- Gertrudis Lozano

P.P.P.S.
There are probably those who are wondering about Petronila de Retamosa Mecias Valades Gonzalez de Gardea Tresalva. Please do not comment about her here. Save that for the thread I will be creating for her at a later date.

Thanks for that information.

It wasn't clear from your post if you understand that the surname Mecias doesn't exist in Aguascalientes, Jalisco, or Zacatecas. The surname is Macias. Tresalba is not a surname either. It is a classification which means three quarters white. It comes from the term for horses with three white hooves.

Ha! Nicely done, David!

I had those dispensas and even that testamento in my tree, but hadn’t gotten around to researching them and connecting the dots; I just read the Marcos Gonzalez Hidalgo testamento, and it does say his cuñados are Bernardino and Diego Gonzalez de Yslas. This establishes a notarized link between the Gonzalez de Yslas and the surname “Lozano.” !GOL!

I also had Joseph Lozano, hijo natural of Cristobal Lozano de Yslas, in my tree, but I didn’t have his wife’s name. As it turns out, I had him and his wife in my tree, but from the marriage of another of their sons; once I merged the 2 Joseph Lozano’s, and placed Juana Gonzalez Lozano where she belongs, the tree came together nicely. It’s a workable template, we just need to find more documentation to support/refute it.

We also have to keep in mind that Maria de Yslas (m. Cristobal Lozano) might still be a daughter of Benito de la Ysla, in which case, the parentesco on the Diego Aguayo/Gertrudis Lozano dispensa could be through Maria de Yslas and Magdalena Lavezaris, rather than Cristobal Lozano and Francisco Gonzalez (or through both, if Cristobal and Francisco married siblings).

I agree, about not wanting to “clutter” up this thread, but the “Ynes Martinez Baca” reference has been nagging me since I first saw it, and I’ve been waiting for an appropriate (and active) discussion to bring it up (looks like this was the one!). It just seems too random to be a notary’s mistake, you know what I mean? To appear, 2-4 generations later, and in an apparently unrelated family; “Ynes Martinez Baca” is not a name like “Magdalena Lavezaris” or “Catalina Cortes,” handed down, from generation to generation and in multiple branches, and appearing in various parishes, and “Martinez Baca” is not a common compound surname; there has to be a reason why a Mexia-Yslas in Nochistlan would be called thus, other than a notary’s error. Bernardino Mexia-(Gonzalez) Yslas was named for his maternal grandfather, Bernardino de Yslas, whose paternal grandmother could have been Ynes Martinez Baca, which may explain why Ynes de Yslas would use this name on this partida. It falls under the normal (and convoluted!) naming practices of that era. Of course, it would be nice to find at least one more document with Ynes de Yslas using the name, but none has appeared, yet.

Great work, David! And though it was off- subject, thanks for picking up that ball and scoring what may be a golazo for many of us!

Manny Diez Hermosillo

PS Please excuse the soccer analogies - I watched the Copa del Rey yesterday, and I am always super impressed by FC Barcelona’s tapestry-like teamwork.

While being thorough, I have spotted a conflict among Holcombe’s letters regarding my theories about the parentage of Francisco Gonzalez (husband of Magdalena de Lavezaris).

Holcombe’s letters as they appear here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

On page 113 says:

“Bernardino’s parents come next on the Tree. Francisco González Martínez and Magdalena de Labesares. He came from Matabuena, Obispado de Segovia, in Spain, a son of Pedro Martínez and María González. Two brothers married in Aguascalientes.” This conflicts with what Holcombe says in his notes pg 8: “A probable other son of Juan Lozano and Inés Martínez was Francisco González Martínez.”

However, just because it appears in Holcombe’s letters does not mean it should be taken as the Alpha and Omega. I have spotted other minor errors in Holcombe’s letters unrelated to the topics in this forum. As such, Holcombe’s letters should invite new themes of inquiry rather than stand as the final authority on the topic at hand. So until I know of a primary resource that specifically states that Francisco Gonzalez’s parents are a Pedro Martinez and Maria Gonzalez, I am still inclined to believe that his parents are Juan Lozano and Inez Martinez Baca y Gonzalez, of which the evidence I have previously posted supports.

On another thorough note, I have a problem with Maria de Isla (wife of Christobal Martinez Lozano) always appearing as Maria “Gonzalez de Isla” in forums and internet trees. I think the source of Maria appearing with “Gonzalez de Isla” originates with her appearing that way in the publications of Somos Primos in October of 1992 [Somos Primos, Volumes 1-10, (Society of Hispanic Historical and Ancestral Research, 1990 ), pg. 47.] (Holcombe references the same source in his letters pgs. 6-8. [there are some minor errors among Holcombe’s corrections to Somos Primos, but that is not important to this topic].)

As far as I have seen, the baptisms, marriage, info. mat.s, wills, and burials of her children only ever have her appearing as “Maria de Isla.” I think the actual source of “Gonzalez de Isla” comes from the marriage of Francisco Gonzalez and Magdalena de Lavezaris. Here, “Gonzlez de Isla” appears among their descendants for several generations, but nowhere have I seen this name appearing in this form among the descendants of Christobal Martinez Lozano and Maria de Isla.

If anybody has seen the contrary, please let me know. A stone I have left unturned here is that I have not seen the will of Christobal Martinez Lozano first hand. Does anyone know how Maria de Isla appears in this record? Does it name her parents? (In the Somos Primos publication Maria de Isla’s father is named as a “Blas de Isla.” I wonder if he is the same person as Benito de Isla, or a different person altogether. Where did the Somos Primos publication get that information?)

Opinions…evidence to prove or refute…please let me know…

Regards,

David

P.S. Has anyone seen where the information of Christobal Martinez Lozano (husband of Maria de Isla) having a natural son named Nicolas Lozano comes from. Does it come from his will perhaps?

Hola primos,

SEGOVIA & JAIME’S “CARTAS”

David, the Segovia origin for Francisco Gonzalez Martinez came to mind, after I left my last post, and I thought about editing it in, but I was in a rush and figured someone else would mention it. I’m glad you mentioned it.

Regarding Holcombe’s “Cartas,” I had a similar conversation with another NR member, and we agreed, that though we think they’re indispensable for this work, one still needs to verify. I feel the same way about all published works. Plus, every once in a while, a document comes along that changes everything we thought we knew about someone. Case in point: the Gonzalez de Hermosillo of Los Altos, coming over from Guadalcanal, instead of descending from the conquistador in DF.

“Lozano” and “Ynes Martinez Baca” appearing in the Gonzalez de Isla line still makes the possibility worth looking into, that Francisco Gonzalez Martinez descends from that line. I’m researching every “Ynes” descendant, 3-4 generations, to see if the ancestral name appears again.

YNES GONZALEZ MARTINEZ

And speaking of Ynes, do any of you have this person as a daughter of Francisco Gonzalez Martinez & Magdalena de Lavezaris? While dredging the Nochistlan baptisms, I glimpsed the name “Ynes Gonzalez Martinez,” married to Juan Gonzalez Hidalgo, padrinos for Juan, son of Diego Gonzalez de Ysla and Cecilia Vasquez de Sandoval 07 Apr 1648, Nochistlan:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15089-15730-19?cc=1804458&wc…

And last night, as I was looking through my list of dispensas to play with, I came upon one annotated “good one”; not knowing why I had written that, it being months since I made the list, I opened it up, and received an easter egg:

21 Apr 1725 dispensa for Santiago de Cuevas and Michaela Gonzalez Bermejo; 4o grado por ser bisnietos de dos hermanas que fueron Ynes y Andrea Gonzalez [de Yslas]. Genealogy given (but not the names of mates):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18417-34726-33?cc=1874591&wc…

PARENTESCO:
Ynes Gonzalez-1-Andrea Gonzalez
Bernabe Gonzalez-2-Tomas Gonzalez
Ynes Gonzalez-3-Cristobal Gonzalez
Santiago de Cuevas-4-Micaela Gonzalez Bermejo

I’ll place my money on Juan Gonzalez Hidalgo being a brother of Marcos Gonzalez Hidalgo.

BENITO DE LA ISLA-LAVEZARIS

Returning to the focus of this thread. First of all, I’m also from the camp that believes Benito de la Isla was a nephew of Gobernador Guido de Lavezaris; besides the fact that Benito’s mother was a Lavezaris, there’s also a real cedula, found at PARES-AGIS, dated 23 Nov 1556, giving Guido de Lavezares (sic) permission to take a nephew and a doncella with him to Indies; though the record isn’t digitized, and his nephew nor the doncella are named in the index, we know that Benito de la Isla and Juana Bernal arrived with Guido the following year. I suspect Benito was still a youth, maybe in his early teens.

I’ve been reading up on the Lavezaris, in “La impresion y el comercio de libros en Sevilla S. XVI,” by Maria del Carmen Alvarez Marquez. I have the book, but you can read pertinent extracts here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=XbMy57T-03AC&printsec=frontcover&sour…

To find the entries about them, use the search engine: Lavezaris

The Lavezaris were booksellers, Guido de Lavezaris El Viejo from Genova, immigrates to Sevilla and sets up shop; marries sevillana Eugenia de Perea and they are the parents of Sebastian de Lavezaris, who married Catalina de Chavez, and in segundos, he married Luisa Bernal (there’s probably a link to the doncella, Juana Bernal, who arrived with Guido’s entourage).

In 1531, future-governor Guido de Lavezaris went to Mexico, contracted for 4 years to sell books. So, we know the family had a presence in the Americas as early as 1531. I don’t think he went alone.

At PARES-AGIS, there’s a record for Luis de Lavezaris, given permission to pass 04 Jul 1531; he’s son of Sebastian de Lavezaris and Catalina de Chavez. That’s the date given for Guido’s passage, so this may be his record, or it may be a sibling.

There are 3 real cedulas, dated 11 Mar 1531, giving permission to pass slaves to Indies to Guido de Labazares, Sebastian de Labazares, and Magdalena de Labazares. According to Alvarez Marquez, Sebastian de Lavezaris (father of Guido and Magdalena) probably died before 1508, so this is likely his son.

At first, I thought this Magdalena de Lavezares might be a daughter of Guido, but he was probably age 20 when he passed to Indies, so this is likely his sister, and future mother of Benito de la Isla. We don’t know if she was married at the time, do we? I doubt it. She and her other siblings probably returned to Sevilla with Guido, when his contract expired, because I’ve never seen anyone by that name during my research in DF - by the way, have any of you found any Lavezaris (in all of its various spellings) living in Mexico, who didn’t descend from Benito de la Isla? It’s such a rare surname, but at the same time, when hispanicized (as in the above “Juro a favor…”), it becomes a toponymic: de Bezares, La Rioja.

I think all of the Lavezaris returned to Spain, probably by 1540. At PARES, Archivo General de Simancas, Contaduria Mayor de Hacienda, there’s a document dated second-half of the 16th century:

“Juro a favor de Magdalena de Besares, Bartolomé de Isla, Sebastián Besares y Bernardina de Isla de 3.447 maravedís.”

Again, the document isn’t viewable, but I’d wager these are the heirs of Bernardino de la Isla - mother and siblings of Benito de la Isla, and all living in Spain.

I don' have the document regarding Cristobal Martin Lozano's hijo natural.

Saludos,

Manny Diez Hermosillo

There have been errors in what Jaime Holcombe Isunza has deduced. It has happened more than once proven by records he hadn't known about out or skipped over for whatever reason. He did all of his work before the Internet and through the Archivo General de la Nación, and not LDS, as well as going to the churches themselves. All genealogists have made mistakes. I still haven't found a genealogist that hasn't made one. The primary records should always be searched for.

The reason I had brought up Jaime's letters is because they are what so many people base their information on, including the trees at Ancestry.com mentioned in the original post of this thread, and he does include information about primary records that weren't microfilmed. So at times the letters provide clues to primary records that need to be searched for elsewhere such as "Juana Navarro, wife of Benito de Isla, was buried in Teocaltiche on 28 Dec 1651. The albaceas of her will were Antonio de Ruvalcaba and Miguel Martínez de Alarcón, vecinos de Teocaltiche. This information was extracted from an unmicrofilmed death record in Teocaltiche."

My inclusion of Jaime's letters was never meant for them to be used as the final authority on the topic at hand. On the contrary, it was meant so that his findings could be picked apart.

Well said, Armando. I consider Jaime's work an extremely useful roadmap, and indispensable, as I said.

This isn't a perfect science: besides losts or damaged documents, poor caligraphy and inconsistant orthography, there's the foggy memories of old testigos.

Quick question, and somewhat related to this thread: which Catalina Cortes is this?

Cathalina Cortes, cofrada del Santisimo Sacramento: Catalina Cortes, Espanola, died in Mexticacan 07 May 1652. Left no testament, but she did a memoria "before the judge, in which she declared a quantity of pesos owed her, and ordered some masses said. Buried in said church with open casket & vigil. Right image bottom:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15206-417-37?cc=1804458&wc=M…

The wives of Juan de Sandoval and Mateo de Rubalcava died at later dates; could this be the wife of Geronimo de Benavides? She'd be around 100 years-old, according to my estimate.

Manny Diez Hermosillo

Hello Manny,

You listed Eugenia de Perea as the wife of guide de Lavesaris, El Viejo. In the same time frame, there was a printer /editor by the name of Lorenzo Perea that may be her father. He is listed along with Eugenia's husband, Guido De Lavesares, as a "librero de Sevilla."

Rick A Ricci

Hi Alex,

The defunción of Maria de Islas says:

En dieciocho de junio de mil seiscientos sesenta y siete enterré en la parroquial de esta villa [Aguascalientes] a doña María de Isla mujer que fue de Andrés Martin, vecinos de esta villa. Confeso y estando para llevar le el viático pidieron solo el santo óleo por haberle dado un parasismo con cual lo recibió y la absolví por la Bula y de allí a media hora murió. Y por que conste lo firmé.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6S67-DJR

Chris

Hi Paige,

It should be "la absolví por la Bula [de la Santa Cruzada]. If you've searched records in Nueva Galicia you've probably come across it before. I've seen it on several of my ancestors. Here's a link: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bula_de_la_Santa_Cruzada

It appears that it was a papal bull that originally offered privileges and graces and indulgences to Spaniards that participated or supported the church against Muslims and heretics and later for works of charity and such.

Chris

Chris,

So how does one know this Maria de Isla is the sister of Magdalena de Lavezaris, wife of Francisco Gonzalez?

I'm just curious what evidence there is as to who her husband was. The only primary source I have confirming this Maria as the sister of Magdalena Lavezaris is the Joseph Diaz de Leon and Maria Catalina de Islas dispensa:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4SG-P?i=191&wc=SS2Q-S…

This dispensa shows she had a daughter named Jacinta Martinez but does not name a husband. This of course provides some evidence of her marrying a Martin or Martinez.

Hi Alex,

That relevant part of the dispensa that establishes a María de Isla as sibling to Magdalena de Labesares says: doña María de Islas tuvo por hija a Jacinta Martínez y Jacinta Martínez tuvo por hijo a Jacinto Díaz y Jacinto Díaz tuvo por hijo a José Díaz de León, pretenso.

Jacinta Martinez who actually went by the name Jacinta de Sotomayor is the known daughter of Andres Martin de Sotomayor and María de Isla. The above dispensa is proven correct where her marriage to Juan Diaz de Leon states:

Juan Díaz de León vecino de esta minas de sierra de Pinos hijo legítimo de Juan Díaz de León y de Francisca de Ortega, vecinos de esta Real digo que quiero contraer matrimonio segun orden de la santa madre iglesia de Roma con Jacinta de Sotomayor, hija legítima de Andrés Martín y de María de Islas...

Jacinto Díaz was the known son of Jacinta de Sotomayor and Juan Díaz de León and married Sebastiana Gil and they were the known parents of Jose Díaz de León based on his marriage that states:

José Díaz de León, español y vecino de la feligresía de Sierra de Pinos, hijo legítimo de Jacinto Díaz, difunto, y de Sebastiana Gil

Based on the evidence and proven descendancy of María de Isla that was married to
capitán Andrés Martin de Sotomayor, the above dispensa is proven correct, which in turn, would prove that Maria de Isla, wife of capitán Andrés Martín de Sotomayor, is the sister of Magdalena de Labesares.

Chris

Chris,

Thank you for the information. This is exactly what I was looking for and is the confirmation which I didn't have! Im glad to be on the same page as everyone else.

Thanks again
Alex

Question 1
Recap of known information: Guido Lavesaris La Besares, Labeçares (LVBS-84T) was married to Ines Alvares de Gibraleon vuida that was accused of Hechicera (Sorceress) by her maid and had been married to Francisco Rodriguez de Çacatula Has anyone found the name of the First Wife of Guido that was killed by Indians?
El padre fray Nicolas de Witte escribe al emperador don Carlos una carta de recomendación para el desafortunado explorador: Nueva España. Lavezaris. Al Emperador. Fr. Nicolas de Witte = Mexico 15 de julio 1552. Suplica favorezca a Guido de Lavezaris el qual sirvio i gasto mas que otro ninguno en la jornada que armodon Antonio de Mendoza...el año 42 para las islas de Poniente trayendo mui gran razon de esas partes i de la navegacion dellas. Perdio su hacienda en aquella jornada i los indios le quitaron a su mujer.
Paragraph found in the following book
Guido de Lavezares
Relación del sucesso de la venida del tirano chino sobre este campo y de las demás cosas sucedidas açerca dello
Introducción, edición y notas de
JUAN FRANCISCO MAURA
Anexos de la Revista Lemir (2004

Question 2 –
I am not able to get the following mentioned book as it is not listed as available in the States but is available in Sevilla. Does anyone have an idea on how to access this book?
Guido de Lavezaris, genovés (1512-1582) : de librero a gobernador de Filipinas by Klaus Wagner, published by Giuffre 1994 14 pages

I thought it was confirmed. But we need Mary Lou Montagna to answer this. The information came from an unindexed microfilm in the letters of Jaime Holcombe where it gives Juana Navarro's burial in Teocaltiche on 28 Dec 1651. And names the albaceas of her will as Antonio de Ruvalcaba and Miguel Martínez de Alarcón, vecinos de Teocaltiche.

Danny

Hola primos,

In my posts from 28 May 2015 and 31 May 2015, to support the argument that Francisco Gonzalez Martinez (cc Magdalena de Lavezaris) was the son of Juan Lozano and Ines Martinez Vaca y Gonzalez, I mentioned how his granddaughter, Ines de Islas (daughter of Bernardino de Islas and Mariana de Sandoval, and wife of Cristobal Mexia), appeared with the name “Ynez Martinez Baca” in the baptism record of her son, Bernardino Mexia. I have located another record on which she is given that same name, this one regarding land titles, so it was her legitimate name. These are titles and instruments for lands belonging to Matheo de Rubalcava, as the husband of Cecilia Vasquez de Yslas, and to her sister, Ynes Martinez Baca, widow of Cristobal Mexia.
Of interest, is the first land title, for a “sitio de ganado menor con dos caballerias de tierra” near the pueblo of Mexticacan, that their father, Bernardino de Yslas, had purchased from Geronimo Gonzalez de Aramburu and Elvira de Carvajal in 1661. As part of that transaction, Geronimo Gonzalez de Aramburu presented the original title of said land, which was originally granted by Doctor Geronimo de Orosco on 14 Dec 1579, to one Martin Navarro.

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

I've been really following this post with a lot of interest since I
recently traced myself to Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando and on
their marriage it says Mariana Villalpando is the daughter of Ysabel Lozano
Gardea and so I'm really interested in posts about the Lozano's and
learning where Ysabel Lozano Gardea fits in. I don't know much about these
families and don't have much to contribute, but, I located this document
recently looking up information on Nueva Galicia and I noticed it mentions
Magdelena Lavezares.

http://www.casadelarchivo.gob.mx/sigloxvi/ANDARIEGOS_Y_POBLADORES.pdf

Danny C. Alonso

Hello, Danny,

My husband's 5th great-grandmother is Maria de San Juan Belasco Trillo. Her parents were Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando. Maria married Nicolas Garcia, and my husband's name is Antonio Carlos Garcia. Thanks for the new info.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 00:53:34 -0700
> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) & Francisco Gonzalez as Brothers
>
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
> I've been really following this post with a lot of interest since I
> recently traced myself to Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando and on
> their marriage it says Mariana Villalpando is the daughter of Ysabel Lozano
> Gardea and so I'm really interested in posts about the Lozano's and
> learning where Ysabel Lozano Gardea fits in. I don't know much about these
> families and don't have much to contribute, but, I located this document
> recently looking up information on Nueva Galicia and I noticed it mentions
> Magdelena Lavezares.
>
> http://www.casadelarchivo.gob.mx/sigloxvi/ANDARIEGOS_Y_POBLADORES.pdf
>
> Danny C. Alonso

Danny,

Can you send me a copy of the marriage of Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando, please? They are my husband's ancestors (his 6th great=grandparents).

Thanks,

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 00:53:34 -0700
> From: dcalonso97@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Christobal Martinez Lozano (I) & Francisco Gonzalez as Brothers
>
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
> I've been really following this post with a lot of interest since I
> recently traced myself to Antonio Trillo and Mariana Villalpando and on
> their marriage it says Mariana Villalpando is the daughter of Ysabel Lozano
> Gardea and so I'm really interested in posts about the Lozano's and
> learning where Ysabel Lozano Gardea fits in. I don't know much about these
> families and don't have much to contribute, but, I located this document
> recently looking up information on Nueva Galicia and I noticed it mentions
> Magdelena Lavezares.
>
> http://www.casadelarchivo.gob.mx/sigloxvi/ANDARIEGOS_Y_POBLADORES.pdf
>
> Danny C. Alonso

David,
now that I know where Ysabel Lozano Gardea fits in I'm even more excited. I
didn't realize I was actually connected to this same Lozano in the subject.
I'm trying to now piece everything together and am curious on the dropbox
letter where it says

“Bernardino’s parents come next on the Tree. Francisco González Martínez
and Magdalena de Labesares. He came from Matabuena, Obispado de Segovia, in
Spain, a son of Pedro Martínez and María González. Two brothers married in
Aguascalientes.” This conflicts with what Holcombe says in his notes pg 8:
“A probable other son of Juan Lozano and Inés Martínez was Francisco
González Martínez.”

Does that mean Bernardino is from Obispado de Segovia, Spain and the son of
Pedro Martinez and Maria Gonzalez or do they mean Francisco Gonzales
Martinez is?

Also did someone answer the question about the where the family group
letters were.

ps Emilie, here is the marriage for Mariana Villalpando

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30462-26?cc=1502404&…

Danny C. Alonso

Danny,
I still have the link to the Family Group Sheets but they appear to no longer be available to the general public. I believe if you're a member of the LDS Church or have a membership with affiliated organizations you probably can access the records as they're still online, but only available to members. A regular Family Search sign on won't work, but, here is the link if you can find someone with an account:

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/2060211
Christopher de Cuellar
 

I finally took some time to figure out how to find the information on the Family Group Sheets by Jaime Holcombe Isunza. They are part of Patron ordinance submission sheets, 1969-1991 https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/319732?availability=Family%20Hi…

The families can be searched at https://familysearch.org/search/collection/igi

So if you search for Cristobal Lozano then you will see a tree for Cristobal Lozano and Maria Isla at https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:1:M3BQ-HF1 and at the top right it says Submitted 6/12/2012 by jholcombe50905 and on the left it says Batch Number 8676301

Searching for 8676301 show it to be in film 1396287 and if you click on it you can put in an order for the film to be sent to the local Family History Center. You don't have to be a member of LDS to be able to do that.

The family of Martín Pérez de Gardea and Mariana González de Ruvalcaba (maternal grandparents of Mariana Gonzalez/Perez de Gardea alias Mariana de Bermejo) is at https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:1:M3DR-YB7 Batch 8683206 Film 1396252

I searched for some other families that are mentioned in this thread that I didn't already have sheets for such as Benito de Islas and so on but I couldn't find anything by Jaime Holcombe.

The Family Group Sheets at https://familysearch.org/search/collection/2060211 are for Family Group Records Collection, Archives Section, 1942-1969 so the submissions by Jaime Holcombe Isunza aren't there.

Online Status

Armando

9 years 6 months ago

Permalink

David,

Here is what I have -

There were letters between Jaime Holcombe Isunza and Mary Lou Montagna that a lot of what is known or deduced comes from. Mary Lou would go to Mexico and visit the churches to see the documents herself. Mary Lou compiled information from the letters and their findings. This the following is some of what is found in the compilation of the letters.

The Benito de la Isla y Labesares, from Seville, who came in 1557 as a servant to whom was undoubtedly a relative, is my ancestor all right, but one generation before. Because there are documents on the other Benito’s two sisters, living in Nochistlán. The one that came from Spain came alone and single. So how do two sisters suddenly turn up? No way. The following fits in generationwise:

Benito de la Isla y Labesares married N.N.

1. María de la Concepción de Islas, married Juan Delgadillo, a son of Diego Delgadillo and Isabel Calderón.
2. Elvira de Islas, married Joseph González.
3. Benito de Islas, married N.N.

i. María González de Islas, married Cristóbal Martínez Lozano
ii. Magdalena de Labesares, married Francisco González.
iii. Petronila de Islas, who apparently did not marry.

Benito also fathered a natural daughter, María de Islas, mestiza, mother not known.

Additional Data

Juana Navarro, wife of Benito de Isla, was buried in Teocaltiche on 28 Dec 1651. The albaceas of her will were Antonio de Ruvalcaba and Miguel Martínez de Alarcón, vecinos de Teocaltiche. This information was extracted from an unmicrofilmed death record in Teocaltiche.

*****

“Guido de Labazares, vecino y natural de Sevilla, hijo de Sebastián de Labazares y de Catalina de Chaves, con Inés Alvarez, su mujer, vecina de Sevilla; Francisco de Castro y Pedro de Castro, hermanos, naturales de Córdoba, hijos de Luis Fernández y de Leonor de Castro, a Nueva España. Lleva por criados suyos a Benito de la Isla, natural de Sevilla, hijo de Bernardino de Isla y de Magdalena de Labazares; Juana Bernal, doncella, hija de Juan Castaño y de Ana Bernal, vecinos de Sevilla; Tomás, indio, Cristóbal, indio y Beatriz, mestiza.” (Source: Catalogo de Pasajeros a Indias, Vol III 1539-1559, Bermúdez Plata, Cristóbal, p. 268, #3538.)

The parents of Bernardino González de Isla y Labesares were Francisco González and Magdalena de Labesares. He lived 22 May 1617 when was a Godfather in the christening of a niece, in Aguascalientes—the Godmother was Petrona de Isla, his sister-in-law. The child, Leonor, born in “La Labor de Xiconaque,” was the daughter of Cristóbal Martínez Lozano and María de Isla: María was a sister of Magdalena de Labesares and Petrona de Isla.
I don’t know Francisco González’ ancestry. The three sisters mentioned above were the daughters of Benito de Islas and N.N. He also had an illegitimate daughter, a mestiza named María de Isla, identified in the marriage information of 1 Aug 1680, for Pedro Rodríguez and Petrona de Islas. This tree is found in the document:

Benito de Islas

María de Isla, mestiza……….1……. Magdalena de Labesares
hija bastarda md Francisco González

Luisa de Isla…………………2……. Bernardino González de Isla
md Antonio de Aguayo md Mariana Sandoval

Isabel de Aguayo…………… 3……. Juan González de Isla
md José Gutiérrez md Juana Rivera y Velázquez

Francisca Gutiérrez………… 4……. Petrona de Islas, la pretensa
had illicit relations with the
pretenso, Pedro Rodríguez

It probably happened that Francisca de Gabay y Moctezuma, the above María de Isla y Moctezuma and María de Isla aka María González de Isla, married to Cristóbal Martínez Lozano were related through the you know who lineage. The third was a daughter of Benito de la Isla and N.N., who’s father was Benito de la Isla, from Sevilla, passenger to the Indies in 1557 (Ophelia found the entry) and a son of Bernardino de Isla and Magdalena de Labesares. Either the first Benito or the second might have married into the Moctezuma line.
In Mexico City’s Castillo de Chapultepec is an oil painting made in the early 1700s of a woman that descended from the Aztec Emperor and had the surname Isla y Moctezuma. Said lady’s genealogy must have been investigated and is to be found somewhere.

A colleague made an interesting observation on the Moctezuma connection. He said, you don’t have to descend from the Aztec emperor, but perhaps from one of his brothers, there having been several and that have been researched little. It’s still a descent from the Aztec royal family. True.

You can download the compilation from https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

Maria de Isla (wife of Christobal Martinez Lozano) is definitely not the same person as Maria de Isla y Moctezuma (wife of Capitan Andres Martinez de Sotomayor). It's not because there seem to be too many children born to both of these women to be same one. It's because the dates that Christobal Martinez Lozano and María González de Isla had children was in early 1600 based on the marriage dates of those children and Christobal Martinez Lozano was buried 13 Mayo 1646 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11773-145304-59

Andrés Martín de Sotomayor and María González de Islas y Moctezuma were married prior to 22 Sep 1626 when their son Nicolás was baptized. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-53079-10

Therefore, it is impossible for Maria de Isla (wife of Christobal Martinez Lozano) to have been the same person as Maria de Isla y Moctezuma (wife of Capitan Andres Martinez de Sotomayor).

As far as the parents of those two Marías -

Maria de Isla (wife of Christobal Martinez Lozano) is mentioned as the daughter of Benito de Islas and N.N. by Jaime Holcombe Isunza. Mariano González Leal has her as the daughter of Francisco González Martínez and Magdalena de Lavezares. I can't find any records proving the parents of this María.

The baptism of Leonor de Lozano y González de Isla (the daughter of Maria de Isla and Christobal Martinez Lozano) states "En la labor de Xiconaque en 22 días del mes de mayo de 1617 años bauptizé y puse los olios a Leonor hija de Christobal Lozano y María de Isla fueron sus padrinos Francisco Gonzalez hermano del dicho Christobal Lozano y Petrona de Isla hermana de la dicha María de Isla - Lorenço Rodríguez" https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-51575-11

I haven't found any records mentioning the parents of Maria de Isla y Moctezuma (wife of Capitan Andres Martinez de Sotomayor).

I haven't looked for the marriage information of 1 Aug 1680, for Pedro Rodríguez and Petrona de Islas

Hola primos,

All of this is very interesting. The 2 Benito de Isla's/ father & son, might explain a lot. I descend from all of these lines. Here's my 2 cents:

First of all, here's the IM for Pedro Rodriguez and Petrona de Islas-Ribera:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15188-23673-32?cc=1804458&wc…

MARIA DE ISLAS Y MOCTEZUMA

Maria de Islas y Moctezuma, wife of Andres Martin de Sotomayor, was a sister of Magdalena de Lavezares, wife of Francisco Gonzalez Martinez, as established in this dispensa for Joseph Diaz de Leon-Gil and Catarina Gonzalez de Islas-Delgadillo (01 Nov 1709 Nochistlan):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18427-2483-11?cc=1874591&wc=…

This would make her a daughter of Benito de la Isla and N.N. I've seen that Holcoombe has Cristobal Lozano's wife as a daughter, as well, but I can't find the source.

MARIA CONCEPCION DE ISLAS & ELVIRA DE ISLAS

I have to question the Maria Concepcion de Islas/ Elvira de Islas connection to the Islas-Lavezares. I have Maria Concepcion de Islas in my lines, and I've been trying to reconcile her with the Islas-Lavezares; the only problem is, if she was a daughter of Benito de la Isla "II," then her son, Diego Delgadillo-Islas, and Petronila [Gonzalez] de Islas-Sandoval would've been at 2o con 4o, and her granddaughter, Josepha Delgadillo-Martinez de Alarcon, and her husband, Nicolas de Dios [Gonzalez] de Islas-Lavezares, would've been at 3o con 4o, requiring dispensations for both marriages. I don't know if Diego and Petronila required a dispensa (can't find a marriage record), and there is no mention of shared consanguinity in the dispensa for his 2nd marriage to Ysabel de Aguayo (who did share consanguinity with Petronila de Islas), and there is definitely no mention of it on Nicolas' & Josepha's IM. One would think red flags would've been raised, but shared-consanguinity marriages did fly under the radar, from time to time. But at 2nd degree?

Dispensa for Diego Delgadillo & Ysabel de Aguayo:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18377-18553-9?cc=1874591&wc=…

IM for Nicolas de Dios de Islas and Josepha Delgadillo:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15188-24066-13?cc=1804458&wc…

FRANCISCO GONZALEZ MARTINEZ

Francisco Gonzalez Martinez: is it possible that he is a brother of Cristobal Martin Lozano? Is he the Francisco Gonzalez "hermano del dicho Cristobal Lozano" who was padrino with Petrona de Islas, on the baptism record for Leonor Lozano? I know “hermano” was used loosely for “cuñado” in these documents, but this occured to me after seeing the following partida: I descend from Ines de Islas, daughter of Bernardino de Islas and Mariana de Sandoval, and married to Cristobal Mexia; on at least one document, she is listed as "Ynes Martinez Baca": baptism for Bernardino Mexia 25 Jun 1674: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15089-14833-43?cc=1804458&wc…

This would imply that she was named for an ancestor, i.e., Ynes Martinez Baca y Gonzalez, who we know as the wife of Juan Lozano, and mother of Cristobal Lozano. The obvious source would be Francisco Gonzalez Martinez, who could have taken his mother's surnames? Thoughts?

Saludos, and thanks for bringing up this family group!

Manny Diez Hermosillo

Hola primo,

MARIA DE ISLAS Y MOCTEZUMA

Excellent work. Christopher Cuellar has also found the dispensa of Joseph Diaz de Leon-Gil and Catarina Gonzalez de Islas-Delgadillo but I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out. - http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/D%C3%ADaz_de_Le%C3%B3n-18

MARIA CONCEPCION DE ISLAS & ELVIRA DE ISLAS

Steven Francisco Hernández López has María de la Concepción de Islas married to Juan Delgadillo Calderón the son of Diego Delgadillo and Isabel de Calderón

I don't think that the Juan Delgadillo that married Elvira Martínez de Alarcón y González de Ruvalcaba is the same Juan Delgadillo that married María de la Concepción de Islas and if not there isn't an issue.

Elvira de Islas and María de la Concepción de Islas were sisters per the following dispensa of Onofre José Herrera & Manuela González- https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-48327-39

FRANCISCO GONZALEZ MARTINEZ

I'll look into this more once I have time.

​​Hola primos,

I'd like to get an idea of the timelines that these Islas women lived in, let's compare notes. Here's my take:

MARIA CONCEPCION DE ISLA: In my lines, I have Juan Delgadillo, son of Diego Delgadillo and Ysabel Calderon, and married to Maria Concepcion de Islas. I believe this is him, a testigo on the IM for Juan de Estrada and Margarita de Ortega, 17 Mar 1659; he signs his name “Jhoan Delgadillo” and gives his age as “50, poco mas o menos,” left image:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-63010-41?cc=1874591&wc…

That places his birth during the first decade of the 1600’s. Naturally, one could assume that his wife, Maria Concepcion de Islas, was born around the same time.

I have this union with 3 children; from the births and marriages of their children, I have these 3 born between 1629 and 1639:

a. Leonor de Bellocillo, m. Juan Morones
b. Diego Delgadillo, b. 1631, m1. Petronila de Islas, m2 Ysabel de Aguayo (in 1704, gave his age as 69)
c. Juan Delgadillo, m. Elvira Martinez de Alarcon

With that timeline, Juan Delgadillo and Maria Concepcion de Islas would be born between 1600-1610. I’ve found no documentation for her sister, Elvira de Islas, other than the Onofre Herrera dispensa.

MAGDALENA DE LAVEZARES: Her son, Bernardino de Islas, and Mariana de Sandoval were married 21 Apr 1631; when a testigo for Gaspar Lomelin and Maria Medinilla 4 Dec 1678, Bernardino de Islas gave his age as 73, placing his birth at 1605. That places his mother’s birth some time in the 1580’s. Gaspar Lomelin and Maria Medinilla 4 Dec 1678: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15188-24292-43?cc=1804458&wc…

MARIA DE ISLAS Y MOCTEZUMA: Maria de Yslas y Moctezuma (m. Andres Martin de Sotomayor) If their first son was born in 1620, then she was likely born around 1600.

MARIA DE ISLAS (m. Cristobal Martin Lozano): Their daughter, Juana Martin Lozano married Hernando de Velasco Salinas 01 Apr 1619; if she were age 14, she could have been born in 1605, in which case, Maria de Islas could be born in the late 1580’s.

Thus:

Maria Concepcion de Islas: b. 1600-1610
Elvira de Islas: b ?
Madalena de Lavezares: b. late-1580’s
Maria de Islas y Moctezuma: b. 1600
Maria de Islas Mestiza: b. ?
Maria de Islas (m. Cristobal Lozano): b. 1580’s
Petronila de Islas (su hermana): ca 1600 or before

Does that correspond with what all of you have?

Gracias y Saludos,

Manny Diez Hermosillo

PS - Armando - I emailed you the Jaime's letters - did you receive? And David, let me know if you need a copy.

Online Status

Armando

9 years 5 months ago

Permalink

Manny,

I did receive the email. Thank you for providing me with the letters. From what I have looked that it has the same information from the document I linked in my first post of the thread. That document is at https://www.dropbox.com/s/6invajbk0zzo4jm/Letters%20Edited%20for%20Dist…

What I am also hoping to find are the family group sheets that Jaime Holcombe submitted to the LDS. I uploaded some examples to https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1gmvyck444nzewr/AABwy6Jqc998ouaZG4_wDatNa?dl…

These family group sheets have a lot of info on them and some of that info might not be in the letters.

The group sheets can be ordered from LDS but a there have been times I have ordered sheets and the people at LDS can't find them. The sheets don't show up in the searches anymore either or I just don't know how to search for them since site changed several years ago. I think that at the church they can be searched for.

Saludos

Hi Armando,

Thanks, I was unaware that the charts existed. There's a family center not far from my home - some day I need to make a visit!

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Profile picture for user Denise Hernandez Fastrup

Online Status

Denise Hernand…

9 years 6 months ago

Permalink

Hi David

Very interesting theory! I wish i had info for you, but the Isla line is not one i have ever researched. However, it would be good to get straight, the children of Petronila and Martin. You have found a reference in the forum to 3 daughters and 1 son. I seem to recall a post that named 2 daughters and 2 sons. I just did some searches for that post but cannot find it, so maybe i remember wrong. Could you post the link to the one you found? I am currently going through records from mex city in the late 1550s, if i see the isla name i will post here.

Regards
Denise Fastrup

Denise,

The forum that has a Petronila de Isla as the daughter of a Benito de Isla and a Juana Navarro appears here:

<>

The forum that has 3 daughters and 1 son for Martin de Gabay Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma appears here:

<>

(Keep in mind that Ana-Francisca, Maria, and Christobal are provable siblings. the alleged Juana is the one that needs to be solidified.)

If you find anything please let me know. Even the smallest new confirmable detail can create a clearer picture in genealogy research.

Regards,

David

I don't think I fully understand how these trees work. Are the people on
line 1, brother and sister and then the people in line 2 are 1st Cousins
and then the people in line 3 are second cousins or is it read differently?

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......1.......Ysabel Martin
m. Maria de Isla y Moctezuma............m. Juan Diaz de la Huerta

Andres Martin Camacho...........2.......Josefa Diaz
m. Beatriz de Mayorga...................m. N.N.

Andres Martin de Sotomayor......3.......Angela Diaz
........................................m. Isidro Villalobos

................................4.......Juana Cayatana de Villalobos

Danny C. Alonso

Genealogy Research