A big hug of thanks to Kitty & Rich Cortez who also copied records while they were in Salt Lake. A big mystery has been solved. The name of the bride was different, but now with the marriage document in hand, the name was actually that of the "testigo".

Also, with the other documents, I have now been able to go up another level with the ancestors.

Okay, Joseph, you can not do your "happy dance". We have now discovered that I connect with Rich Cortez, and Rosalinda Ruiz, with our Sandoval lines.

Helyn

Alicia Carrillo wrote:
Thanks to Rich and Kitty Cortez who copied 8 records for me while they were in Salt Lake I have some major new discoveries. Talk about some eyeopeners !!!

I also want to add my thanks. They were able to locate records on my great grandfather, including his wife's name. My aunt told me that my grandfather's middle name was Munoz, and it turns out my great grandmother was Panfila Munoz. Interesting, because my grandmother was also named Panfila.
Thanks again to the Cortez'!
John Robles

Alicia Carrillo wrote:
Thanks to Rich and Kitty Cortez who copied 8 records for me while they were in Salt Lake I have some major new discoveries. Talk about some eyeopeners !!!

Here's my ancestry in this my maternal grandmother's line, Maria del Refugio Ruiz, Esparza born Aug 1900>>her father and my g-grandfather, Refugio Ruiz Muños Bapt 01 March 1869. He was the son of Jose Rafael Ruiz Esparza my gg-grandfather born around 1834, son of my ggg -grandfather, Cirilo Ruiz, Alvares & Maria Cayetana Esparza, Luevano, daughter of my gggg -grandparents, Doroteo Esparza & Maria Dolores Luevano.

1) Marriage records for Doroteo Esparza & Maria Dolores Luevano from Pabellon, Rincon de Romos, Aguascalientes, marriage date 18 Jan 1807. I had not ordered this roll of film as it was one of the only records outside my primary target area of Nochistlan Zac and I did not think it would give up so much information. I have always wondered what indian tribe my family descends from and while I still don't know what tribe I have the first evidence that we are indios from the Aguascalientes region - here's the content of this marriage record.

Film # 0635756, Batch # M602763, 1798-1845, En la capilla de Pabellon, feligresia de Pueblo de San Jose de Gracia en 18 del mes de Enero de 1807, Doroteo Esparza, mestizo, origniario y vecino de La Hacienda de Garabato, hijo legitimo de Pioquinto Esparza y de Gertrudis Manriques con Maria Dolores Luebana, Española, originaria de La Hacienda de Garabato y Nicomedes en la jurisdicion de Aguascalientes en el puesto de Las Trojes quatro años y vecina en Garabatos quatro años, hija leg de Maximiano Luebana y Ursula Castorena. Padrinos Roberto Ximenes y Maria Casilda Duran.

2) The second surprise was from the branch of Cirilo Ruiz Alvares, the husband of Maria Cayetana Esparza Luevano noted above. I requested the baptism record of his brother as I still don't have a record of Cirilo's birthdate but guess it was around 1805 which is the year that is missing for baptisms from Nochistlan.

LDS Film # 0226657, batch # C606233, 1800-1804, Bautismos Nochistlan, Juan Jose Evaristo, Español, hijo legitimo de Jose Bictoreano Ruis y de Maria Ysabel Macias y nieto legitimo por parte paterna no se sabe quienes fueron. y por parte materna, Jose Maria Macias y de Maria de la O Duran; Fueron sus padrinos, Jose Andres Muños y Maria Ynes Martinez de Soto Mayor.

What this tells me is that Cirilo's father Bictoreano Ruiz, my gggg-grandfather did not know who his parents were. Bictoreano Ruiz and Maria Ysavel had their first child in 1797 and they had 10 children, if not more and the last baptism record I have of their children is for 1810 in Nochistlan, Zac. Bictoreano must have been born around 1777 +/- a few years. Even though the birth record says español that is dubious because if they don't know who the paternal grandparents were how can they know he was an español?

So thanks Rich and Kitty.......without your help and without the assistance from all in this group I would not be as far as I am in my research and I would not enjoy it as much as I do.

Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Calif

Hello Alicia, I wonder a lot how careful a person in charge of inscribing a baptism in the book could be. Some times the letters in a record look like the "hand" is drunken, trembling a lot or maybe was someone that knew everybody in town or ranch that it felt no need to write so many names, so inscribed no parents known or nothing at all. I have seen records where in the case of a child there where parents or grandparents unknown, and then for a brother or sister of that child those persons names appeared. I suggest you look for more brothers or sisters records, maybe someone has the missing siblings.

Alicia Carrillo escribió: Thanks to Rich and Kitty Cortez who copied 8 records for me while they were in Salt Lake I have some major new discoveries. Talk about some eyeopeners !!!

Here's my ancestry in this my maternal grandmother's line, Maria del Refugio Ruiz, Esparza born Aug 1900>>her father and my g-grandfather, Refugio Ruiz Muños Bapt 01 March 1869. He was the son of Jose Rafael Ruiz Esparza my gg-grandfather born around 1834, son of my ggg -grandfather, Cirilo Ruiz, Alvares & Maria Cayetana Esparza, Luevano, daughter of my gggg -grandparents, Doroteo Esparza & Maria Dolores Luevano.

1) Marriage records for Doroteo Esparza & Maria Dolores Luevano from Pabellon, Rincon de Romos, Aguascalientes, marriage date 18 Jan 1807. I had not ordered this roll of film as it was one of the only records outside my primary target area of Nochistlan Zac and I did not think it would give up so much information. I have always wondered what indian tribe my family descends from and while I still don't know what tribe I have the first evidence that we are indios from the Aguascalientes region - here's the content of this marriage record.

Film # 0635756, Batch # M602763, 1798-1845, En la capilla de Pabellon, feligresia de Pueblo de San Jose de Gracia en 18 del mes de Enero de 1807, Doroteo Esparza, mestizo, origniario y vecino de La Hacienda de Garabato, hijo legitimo de Pioquinto Esparza y de Gertrudis Manriques con Maria Dolores Luebana, Española, originaria de La Hacienda de Garabato y Nicomedes en la jurisdicion de Aguascalientes en el puesto de Las Trojes quatro años y vecina en Garabatos quatro años, hija leg de Maximiano Luebana y Ursula Castorena. Padrinos Roberto Ximenes y Maria Casilda Duran.

2) The second surprise was from the branch of Cirilo Ruiz Alvares, the husband of Maria Cayetana Esparza Luevano noted above. I requested the baptism record of his brother as I still don't have a record of Cirilo's birthdate but guess it was around 1805 which is the year that is missing for baptisms from Nochistlan.

LDS Film # 0226657, batch # C606233, 1800-1804, Bautismos Nochistlan, Juan Jose Evaristo, Español, hijo legitimo de Jose Bictoreano Ruis y de Maria Ysabel Macias y nieto legitimo por parte paterna no se sabe quienes fueron. y por parte materna, Jose Maria Macias y de Maria de la O Duran; Fueron sus padrinos, Jose Andres Muños y Maria Ynes Martinez de Soto Mayor.

What this tells me is that Cirilo's father Bictoreano Ruiz, my gggg-grandfather did not know who his parents were. Bictoreano Ruiz and Maria Ysavel had their first child in 1797 and they had 10 children, if not more and the last baptism record I have of their children is for 1810 in Nochistlan, Zac. Bictoreano must have been born around 1777 +/- a few years. Even though the birth record says español that is dubious because if they don't know who the paternal grandparents were how can they know he was an español?

So thanks Rich and Kitty.......without your help and without the assistance from all in this group I would not be as far as I am in my research and I would not enjoy it as much as I do.

Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo
San Jose, Calif